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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: XPhile2868 on Tuesday 24 June 08 12:49 BST (UK)
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My 4x great grandfather Joseph Clegg (b Manchester c1829, died Preston 1875) was a landscape artist. I don't know much about him, and would like to know what exactly a landscape artist would have done in those days. I know that his oldest child was born in London c1850, so he may have been down there for his job.
I have two theories -
1. He was an artist and was in London to sell some of his paintings. I can't find anything about him on the Internet, so I assume he was probably an amatuer painter, or
2. He "painted landscapes" - either painting pictures of people's gardens for them or drawing designs for a gardener.
Which of the two is more likely? And would any possible paintings be in existance today? I would love to see some of his work, especially as he is the first artist I've found in the family tree.
Stephen :)
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Going by censuses 1851-1871, he was a painter, rather than what we would now call a landscape architect. The addresses he appears at suggest that he wasn't particularly well-off (I know Preston quite well and these aren't streets where wealthy Victorians lived) - also there are no live-in servants with the family on any census.
You could try e-mailing the Harris art gallery in Preston to ask if they know anything about him.
http://www.harrismuseum.org.uk/
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I'm from Preston myself and didn't think of emailing the Harris Museum, so thanks for the idea.
Stephen :)
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I have just been having a look through The Preston Guardian in 19th century British Newspapers (free trial from here:
http://access.gale.com/gdctrial/index.html
if you haven't already tried it.)
There are a few references to Joseph Clegg of 29 North Road, Preston as being the Registrar of Marriages for the district of the Preston Union.
Your Joseph doesn't appear at this address on any census, although he is at 273, North Road in 1861. However, in 1867 there is death notice for "Annie, eldest daughter of Mr Joseph Clegg, registrar of marriages" "in the 17th year of her age"
I notice that there is a 10 year old daughter Annie in your Joseph's household in 1861 , who is not there in 1871.
There isn't another Joseph Clegg listed in Preston censuses as being a registrar, so possibly the artist and the registrar are the same chap. This is perhaps something that the records office at Bow Lane could help you with.
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I have just been having a look through The Preston Guardian in 19th century British Newspapers (free trial from here:
http://access.gale.com/gdctrial/index.html
if you haven't already tried it.)
There are a few references to Joseph Clegg of 29 North Road, Preston as being the Registrar of Marriages for the district of the Preston Union.
Your Joseph doesn't appear at this address on any census, although he is at 273, North Road in 1861. However, in 1867 there is death notice for "Annie, eldest daughter of Mr Joseph Clegg, registrar of marriages" "in the 17th year of her age"
I notice that there is a 10 year old daughter Annie in your Joseph's household in 1861 , who is not there in 1871.
There isn't another Joseph Clegg listed in Preston censuses as being a registrar, so possibly the artist and the registrar are the same chap. This is perhaps something that the records office at Bow Lane could help you with.
Thanks for the information. Clegg doesn't seem too common a surname in Preston, so they could very well be the same Joseph.
Stephen :)
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I've just had a reply from the Harris Museum, and the two Josephs are the same. The following is from the email -
I have had a quick look through Preston trade directories of the time (a pre-cursor to our Yellow Pages). Joseph Clegg first appears in the 1865 volume as a, ‘artist and registrar of marriages’ living at 29 North Road. He is the only person with that name. By 1869 he is listed as a ‘shopkeeper’ at 132 North Road and appears as the same in the 1874 volume. A Joseph Edward Clegg appears in the 1877 volume as ‘compositor’ living at 6 Frenchwood Street, who may be some relation.
Stephen :)
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Swift work from the Harris! It's always pleasing to be told one is right :) .
Hope there's more to be found.
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Hello Stephen,
Here's an item about a Clegg who was in a similar field ...
"Clegg's 24 Views of Rossendale" was published by T. Clegg who was a photographer
and art dealer in Rawtenstall circa 1885 www.antiqbook.co.uk/boox/lit/45116.shtml
Christopher
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Hi Stephen
Just come across your post regarding Joseph Clegg and found it very interesting. My GG Grandmother was an Elizabeth Clegg who married John Cross in Preston in 1879. Very little is known about Elizabeth, so I am busy trying to trace her. According to the 1881 census, she was born in Hulme c1859, in future census records she just names her birthplace as Manchester. Because the Clegg/Cross family are Catholics I am struggling to find parish records for them. The closest birth I have found for Elizabeth is a Lizzie Clegg, registered Sep qtr 1858 in Chorlton (I believe Hulme is a subdistrict of Chorlton). This Lizzie Clegg seems to be the daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Clegg, with Joseph recording himself as a landscape painter. Joseph, Elizabeth and children (including Lizzie) are at 273 North Rd Preston in 1861 and 41 Pole? St, Preston in 1871. Do you have any further information that may help me to work out if my GG Grandmother, Elizabeth Clegg, is the daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Clegg?
Thank you for your time.
Kind regards
Sarah
Brisbane, Australia
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Hi Stephen
Just come across your post regarding Joseph Clegg and found it very interesting. My GG Grandmother was an Elizabeth Clegg who married John Cross in Preston in 1879. Very little is known about Elizabeth, so I am busy trying to trace her. According to the 1881 census, she was born in Hulme c1859, in future census records she just names her birthplace as Manchester. Because the Clegg/Cross family are Catholics I am struggling to find parish records for them. The closest birth I have found for Elizabeth is a Lizzie Clegg, registered Sep qtr 1858 in Chorlton (I believe Hulme is a subdistrict of Chorlton). This Lizzie Clegg seems to be the daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Clegg, with Joseph recording himself as a landscape painter. Joseph, Elizabeth and children (including Lizzie) are at 273 North Rd Preston in 1861 and 41 Pole? St, Preston in 1871. Do you have any further information that may help me to work out if my GG Grandmother, Elizabeth Clegg, is the daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Clegg?
Thank you for your time.
Kind regards
Sarah
Brisbane, Australia
That sounds like my Joseph and Elizabeth. I don't really know much about Lizzie.
The following link is to the Clegg family on my tree at Rootsweb - http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=sms1986&id=I390.
Stephen :)
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Hi Stephen
I now have the John Cross/Elizabeth Clegg 1879 marriage certificate:
"Church of the English Martyrs, Preston
26 May 1879
John Cross, 23 years, bachelor, self-acting minder, 21 Hammond St Preston
Father : John Cross deceased, school master
Elizabeth Clegg, 21 years, spinster, cotton weaver, 19 Hammond St, Preston
Father: Joseph Clegg, deceased, artist
Witnesses: Joseph Cross (John's brother?), Margaret Calderkank" (unknown)
I am now sure that Elizabeth Clegg is the daughter of Joseph Clegg (artist/landscape painter) and Elizabeth Connolly. Joseph and Elizabeth's marriage is on LAN-OPC:
Marriage: 8 Apr 1850 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
Joseph Clegg - 21 Artist Bachelor of Ordsall Lane Salford
Elizabeth Connolly - 19 Spinster of Union St Salford
Groom's Father: Arthur Clegg, Gentleman
Bride's Father: Arthur Connolly, Bricklayer
Witness: John Mathison Ashton; Amelia Jane Cocker
Married by: James Moore
Register: Marriages 1846 - 1869, Page 4, Entry 8
Source: LDS Film 1786463
How does this fit in with your research?
Thanks
Sarah
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I have that marriage in my tree, the one for Joseph and Elizabeth in 1850.
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We recently purchased an oil painting landscape of Heidelberg, signed on the reverse Joseph Clegg, 1860. We are fond of Heidelberg, and the painting shows the Castle, town, and Neckar River. I'd be happy to send you a photo.
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We recently purchased an oil painting landscape of Heidelberg, signed on the reverse Joseph Clegg, 1860. We are fond of Heidelberg, and the painting shows the Castle, town, and Neckar River. I'd be happy to send you a photo.
Thanks for the information, I would greatly appreciate a photo of the painting. Would you be able to find out more about Joseph Clegg to confirm if it is my ancestor?
Stephen :)
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Hi Wjlstl
Thank you for posting. I did see the Heidelberg painting up for sale and was very tempted to purchase it for my Dad's 70th birthday but just couldn't confirm that it was our ancestor Joseph Clegg. The timing fits, but most evidence points to Joseph as not being particularly wealthy and I am not certain that he would have been able to afford to travel to Europe to paint. However, I don't know enough about travel in the 1850s/1860s, or enough about how he would have made his living as a landscape artist. I would love it to have been painted by 'our' Joseph Clegg because it is a beautiful painting.
It would be lovely to have a photo of the painting - thank you so much for offering.
Kind regards
Sarah