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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: BGB on Saturday 28 June 08 23:23 BST (UK)
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The Rev. Herbert Hamilton BROWN (b. London 1867) married an Emily B, (b.1895 in England) it is believed in 1929 in Utica, NY. Herbert, who was a widower, was an ordained priest of the Episcopalian Church but for some reason had become a Methodist minister in Utica. (ref. 1930 USA census). :DI should very much like to know the surname of Emily B. and to have confirmation of the marriage date. It seems from the census that Emily first entered the USA in 1929.Herbert returned to England in 1933. He died in 1935 and his sister registered the death. I was wondering if due to the wide age difference, Emily and Herbert stayed married! :'(BGB
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Do you have the June 24, 1922 arrival in Gateway Wyoming of Herbert Hamilton Brown, Episcopal Minster w/ 2 sons, Graham H. 12 and Leslie H. 9 destination Newcastle, WY ?? Also, says he has been previously in the U.S., Massachusetts in 1915.
lissa
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If you were so inclined, you could try to order the marriage certificate: http://www.health.state.ny.us/vital_records/genealogy.htm
Don't know if you've seen this, but under Google books, there's a snippet view of a book from 1935 which references Rev. Herbert Hamilton Brown being instituted and inducted to the vicarage of Wix.
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I would take Shelly's advice and try to order the marriage cert. According to the 1930 census, they haven't been married long, so I would start with Oneida County for 1929 and 1930. That should have parents' names and place of birth on them, as long as the info was given correctly.
You could also try contacting the methodist Church in Utica. If you start here, they may be able to guide you:
http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.1353935/k.69CC/The_mission_of_The_United_Methodist_Church_is_to_make_disciples_of_Jesus_Christ.htm
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I thought of something else in case you want to narrow down the date of marriage and see where Herbert was working. On www.raogk.com, there is a person listed under Onedia County, New York who does look-ups in the Utica city directories. Often, city directories will list the spouse's name with the head of household and give employment information.
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I have tried to e-mail the Methodist minister but he doesn't seem to have any address.
I have e-mailed the person who does look-ups to see if there is any information available.
A problem with marriages it seems is one has to know the date before ordering a certificate. How does one get round that?
BGB
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Hi BGB, on the website that shellyesq gave you, scroll down to the schedule of fees for doing a search when you don't know the exact date. 1-3 years $22
lissa
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I was going to say what Lissa said. It's not any more expensive to have them search 3 years. Since you have it down to about 1929-1930, you should be OK, but it's nice to have a little extra confirmation if possible.
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At the bottom of the Methodist link is a contact us button. Start there to see if they can guide you to the right church.
Kath
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Not sure if this will help but here is a link for the Utica Library.
http://www.uticapubliclibrary.org/genealogy.html
YOu could always ask for a search of the directories and maybe get an idea of the church name.
or the historical society..
http://www.oneidacountyhistory.org/Research/ResearchNew.asp
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Dear Nutkin
Thanks for your suggestion and the library e-mail address. Before Rev Herbert Hamilton Brown came to Utica he had appointments at Central City, Nebraska and Coffeyville, Tenessee. In both cases I contacted the libraries who were able with the help of local contacts to verify these appointments. So libraries can be very helpful, although one has to be patient with them! One also needs to know their e-mail addresses.
So thanks again. I will see what the Methodist Church comes up with first.
Regards
BGB
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I regret to say that I have made a mistake about UTICA. The place should have been ONEIDA NY. How my mistake arose I have no idea. I think I may have a Utica connection for someone else.
The Methodist Church has been in touch and hopefully the query is being followed up in Oneida.
The minister in Newcastle, Wyoming, seems not to have an e-mail address. So I have contacted the library, as suggested.
How many Newcastles are there in the USA? There are three in England & Wales.
BGB
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In the 1930 Census, it looks like they're in Utica in Oneida County. Maybe that was the confusion?
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Shelly is right and I am very grateful for clarification that Utica is the town and Oneida is the county. I have now informed the Methodist researcher.
BGB
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BGB, 23 Newcastle or New Castle in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle
lissa
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Hi there. Just noticed that one of your surname interests is 'Milner'. I am descended from Ann Milner of Patrington, who married John Woodhouse in 1810. I have quite a lot of information on her descendants - more than happy to share with you if you're interested!
regards, Vicky (Sheffield, England)
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To let recent correspondents know that quite by chance (and thanks to a recently-joined UK member) the wife of Rev Herbert Hamilton Brown whom he married in Utica NY in 1929 has been identified.
She is (or was) Emily Baring Dumble of Keswick (in the English Lake District) although she was born in Newcastle-upon-Tyne in 1883. Sadly HHB died in 1935 so she was widowed after only 6 years of marriage. Considering she was 46 when she married and HHB was 62 she was taking a bit of a risk at the time. She died in 1971 in Kendal.
As with many family history questions the solving of one mystery gives rise to another. What we don't know as yet is:-
1. How did HHB a priest in Holy Orders in the Episcopalian Church in USA get to meet an English schoolteacher living in Keswick. Shipping and census records show she first entered the USA in April 1929. The assumption is she went there to get married.
2. After HHB she returned to live at Keswick. We don't know what occupation she followed although she is believed to have died a wealhy woman!
Thank you to everyone for their past help.
BGB
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Hi BGB,
You can request a free lookup for their marriage here ...
Onondaga County Public Library (OCPL) in Syracuse
New York State Vital Records Microfiche Indexes - Free Look Ups
The Onondaga County Public Library (OCPL)
447 S. Salina Street
Syracuse, NY 13202-2494
An email contact is listed here:
http://ny-genes.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-york-state-vital-records-microfiche.html
with further information here ...
http://ny-genes.blogspot.com/2008/03/vital-records-lookups-update-to-update.html
(blog by “Dick” Hillenbrand)
Be sure to mention you think they may have married in Oneida County, NY.
They will do a five year span of time for the lookup from the date you think they may have married.
This index is not for NYC nor the boroughs of New York City but pertains to the rest of New York State.
Hopefully by now you may have heard back from the church via email. I wanted to list this as an alternative for you. When I have sent this library an email, I generally hear back from them within 24 hours, unless it is a weekend.
Good luck!
K.
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Hello Miss Kate!
Thank you for your kind response. I'll follow up your suggestion. We know Rev. HH Brown married Emily B Dumble in 1929 in USA (she travelled there by ship in April 1929) and presumably married fairly soon after her arrival. Here in England one normally has to give 3 weeks notice to the Church. Is it the same in the USA? HH Brown was a priest who could marry people but presumably couldn't marry himself! In 1930 census Rev HH Brown and Emily were married.
Two days ago I found a shipping entry for Rev HH Brown - he returned to USA in September 1927 - he was at Coffeyville Kansas until June. Thus he had been on holiday in England which is when he must have met Emily.
Sad they were married for only 6 years.
Best wishes
BGB
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Hello Miss Kate again
I have now e-mailed the library and await their response.
I'll let you know how I get on.
It was very kind of you to go to the trouble of sending their e-mail address and I much appreciate this.
Kind regards
BGB
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All is now revealed, thanks to the kind librarian at Onondaga County Library, Syracuse NY and to the Rootschat member who suggested I contact the librarian in the first place..
Rev. Herbert Hamilton Brown married Emily Baring Dumble at Utica, NY, on 19 June 1929.
Emily, a school headteacher, was also identified travelling to USA by ship in April 1929.
Herbert & Emily returned to England in 1933.
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Hi BGB,
I'm happy the library found the information for you. They have been great!
Best of luck to you in your continuing family research.
Kind regards,
Kate
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We now know, thanks to everyone:-
Rev Herbert Hamilton Brown married Emily Baring Dumble at Calvary Church, Utica, NY on 19 June 1929.
The officiant was the Bishop of New York.
Sadly, Rev HH Brown died in England in 1935 so poor Emily was left a widow. She lived in England until 1971 when she died.
A Google search found a good picture of the church. But there is a suggestion that it is no longer open. Does anyone know about this church, please?
BGB
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I just checked the local phone book and at first glance cannot find that church. What is the denomination? There is a Calvery Cemetery in Utica but no church is attached to it. May be gone.
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Hi BGB,
Calvary Episcopal Church in Utica, NY was placed on the New York Register of Historic Places just this year in 2008. "Calvary Episcopal Church, Utica – built in 1870-1872, the church is an intact example of late Victorian English Gothic architecture."
Upon further research it appears Calvary Church itself was sold back in 1995 and is now known as the Italo-Greek Orthodox Cathedral and worship services take place by members of that religious denomination.
Their address (formerly Calvary Episcopal Church):
1101 Howard Avenue
Utica, NY 13501
USA
The parish records of Calvary may have been transferred to Grace Episcopal Church in Utica. Another likely possibility is that the records were transferred to the Episcopal Diocese of Central New York which is located in Syracuse, NY.
Hope this helps.
Kate
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Hello Kate and Nutkin
Thank you for your kindness in resolving the current situation re Calvary Episcopal Church, Utica. Much appreciated. Sorry for the late response - I have been away on holiday in Italy!
BGB