RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: JenClark on Sunday 29 June 08 05:57 BST (UK)
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Hi guys,
In my travels and while doing my own German Family History Research I have obtained copies of the following Church Family Books (Familienbucher) for Hessen.
Familienbuch Oberrosbach v.d. Höhe by Gottlieb See (dated 1987) covering births, marriages & deaths for the years 1663-1899
and
Familien in Grüningen (kreis Giessen) by Dr Heinz Lothar Worm (dated 1990) covering births, marriages & deaths for the years 1647-1900
If anyone has family in these areas and would like me to look them up in the books, please reply to this thread or send me a personal message :)
Hope this helps someone!
Jenny
P.S They are written in German and while I do not speak German I can transcribe the details for you and you may be able to get a translation. Names and dates are pretty easy tho ;)
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Hi Jen,
a lovely offer !
If you find any requested names, just write the details here, as you see them.
We have enough german speakers here to do the translations.
For those wondering what Familienbuecher are (Local Heritage Books),
the Ortsfamilienbücher (OFB) or Ortssippenbücher (OSB) are described here:
http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/FAQ_Local_Heritage_Book
some (but not many) are also online:
http://www.online-ofb.de/
Bob
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Will do Bob, hopefully we can help someone out ;)
the books have certainly helped me, found almost 300 years of my family in Grüningen back to 1626 ;D
Jenny
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Hi Jen,
Have just found this site and your above message. It feels like it might be Christmas!!!!!
I have a great great grandmother called Sophia Hommel ( sometimes Sophie, sometimes Hominel). She married in the German Lutheran church in Alie Street in London on 18th March 1860. I have the microfiche of marriages in the church which details her as being 27 of Oberrossbach, daughter of Christian, a shoemaker , deceased.
She marries Johann Christof Bohle ( son of Jost Heinrich Bohle a farmer) aged 24 from Zwergen.
Also on the same fiche is Blondina Hommel aged 26 in 1855 who marries Conrad Fehring (son of Heinrich) from Zwergen on 18.02.1855. She is from Nieder Rossbach, daughter of Christian, farmer deceased.
I would be over the moon if you have any information you could share with me. No idea how = whether it is done through this site or through individual email. I will look on the roots europe site in hope
Kind regards
fleurjenny
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Hello fleurjenny,
I eagerly ran to the bookshelf when I got your message to check and see if I could help out, only to find that the Oberrosbach book does not have any Hommel's at all :'(
I checked all other possible spellings, and the only one that features is Hammel but they are entries for the 1700's and not likely to be anything to do with your family.
I did find a reference to a Hummel family in Niederrossbach, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia on Rootsweb which may be your family:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lindv/gedcom/emmerichenhain/WC03/WC03_112.htm
It shows:
Johann Christianus Hummel marrying Anna Catharina Schmid in 1768 in Emmerichenhain, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
They had the following children:
Johannes Christianus Hummel b. 8 Jun 1771, Niederrossbach d. 10 May 1789, Niederrossbach
Anna Elisabetha Hummel b. 6 Oct 1773, Niederrossbach
Johannes Hummel b. 6 Oct 1775, Niederrossbach d. 17 Oct 1856, Rehe
Johann Henrich Hummel b. 1 Mar 1778, Niederrossbach d. 14 Jun 1797, Niederrossbach
Johannes Martinus Hummel b. 28 May 1780, Niederrossbach d. 4 Oct 1782, Niederrossbach
Georg Peter Hummel b. 25 Feb 1783, Niederrossbach
Johannes Martin Hummel b. 7 Aug 1785, Niederrossbach d. 10 Nov 1788, Niederrossbach
Johann Christian Hummel b. 19 Feb 1789, Niederrossbach d. 13 Mar 1844
Marie Johannette Hommel b. 24 Apr 1797, Niederrossbach d. 8 Sep 1797, Niederrossbach
Could the second Johann Christian Hummel be your Sophie's father?
Or there is a:
Christianus Henricus Hummel
b. 7 Sep 1774, Niederrossbach, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
d. 17 Sep 1846, Oberrossbach, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
who married on 19 Dec 1802, Emmerichenhain, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
Marie Elisabeth Schneider
b. abt 1781, Naustall, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
They had a son:
Johannes Henrich Wilhelm Hommel b. 4 Oct 1804, Oberrossbach, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
Perhaps they had more children and he is the father of your Sophie?
There is a contact for this site which appears to show the Emmerichenhain Parish 1669 - 1806, perhaps they can help :-\
"Introduction
Over the years, Cathy Mellor has been extracting the Emmerichenhain parish , Nassau, Prussia records from 1669 - 1806. The following pages are the result of her efforts. For information on the sources for these pages, please contact Cathy Mellor."
It is strange that they do not show up in the Parish Familienbuch for Oberrosbach V.D. Hohe but perhaps it is another town named similarly? The town I have the book for is spelt with the one s not ss, don't know if that makes a difference or not.... I am not too good at German geography...and I do get very confused with their states!!
Hope that helps some at least ;)
Jenny
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Just thought that I had better add that my the Familienbuch for Oberrosbach does not cover Niederrosbach which is just next door....they are both part of Rosbach vor der Höhe in modern day terms...but in the old registers they are separate ;)
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Hello fleurjenny and welcome to rootschat,
Hello Jenny,
There are 17 places in Germany called Roßbach, one in Oberwesterwaldkreis (Hessen Nassau)
Both, Ober- and Nieder Roßbach Oberwesterwaldkreis exist.
And then there are -
Niederrosbach, Kreis Wetterau, Darmstadt Hessen which you can find here:
http://www.igi-index.de/index.php?page=14&seite=batch8&lang=uk&sort=ort&id=n
and
Ober Rosbach here: http://www.igi-index.de/index.php?page=1&seite=batch8&lang=uk&sort=ort&id=o
Hope that helps, Peonie
added: The Mormons have films for Ober Rosbach
Kirchenbuch, 1663-1875 Evangelische Kirche Ober Rosbach v. d. Höhe (Kr. Friedberg)
Kirchenbuchduplikat, 1808-1835 Evangelische Kirche Ober Rosbach v. d. Höhe (Kr. Friedberg)
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Hi Peonie,
That makes more sense then ;)
I am thinking that perhaps fleurjenny's Hommel's come from Oberrossbach & Niederrossbach in in Oberwesterwaldkreis (Hessen Nassau).
Where my Oberrosbach & Niederrosbach are in Hessen Darmstadt as per Wikipedia below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosbach_vor_der_H%C3%B6he
I actually visited the towns my rellies came from in a trip to Germany in 2006, very pretty countryside ;D
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
it's difficult to keep all the small villages with the same name apart.
Here is the German site for your place http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosbach_vor_der_H%C3%B6he
Peonie
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Thanks Peonie!
Much more information on the German Wiki page ;D
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
just found your Somerlads in a book (200 years of German speaking immigrants) I wish they would have put more shipping list of the early arrivals in it.
Regards Peonie
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Hey Peonie,
Thanks for letting me know, the book is not one that I am familiar with....does it have a lot of information in it? Is it an Australian book that I might be able to find here? Or would you be able to send me the info? I have already got the shipping details for my Sommerlad's so that is not such a worry, but any other info would be great....or does it just mention their name?
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
the book (A3 on Newsprint) was published as special Bicentennial edition of "Die Woche in Australien".
The contribution for the Sommerlads were obviously supplied by the family. Photos of John Henry, Louisa, "Das Sommerladsche Familienorchester" and a handwritten letter from Peter to his brother John Henry in Australia 2.8.1858. It states Johann Heinrich's reasons for leaving Germany to settling in Australia. It also mentions the family history book written by E. Lloyd Sommerlad.
Regards Peonie
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Hey Peonie,
It sounds as though the info was supplied by Lloyd Sommerlad, whom I have been in touch with several times already, I have a couple of copies of his book on the Sommerlad family history "The Migrant Shepherd" and it is very detailed....he is a very good author and newspaper man.
So don't worry about sending the info, thanks for thinking of me though ;)
Jenny
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Hi Jen,
I am looking for anything I can find on Louisa Lyon Neunoble born 1828 Leidhecken, , Hessen, Germany (Wilferth) mar 1855 Leidhecken Hesse, Germany. Married Heinrick (Henry) Hess b 17-11-1829.
I have found several spellings for Louisa's surname - Neunbel/ Ninobel / NEWNOPEL / NEUOPEL /NOUBLE / NAUNIBEL / LYON-NOUBLE / NEUNOBLE.
Her death certificate shows NINOBLE - died 17-11-1879 Toowoomba, Queensland but children birth certificates show some of the names as above. I am trying to find her proper maiden name.
If you don't mind could you have a look and see if you can find her?
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Hi Noandra,
I do not have the familienbucher for Leidhecken, but I have had a look in the Oberrosbach v.d. Höhe & Grüningen books that I have just in case as they are also in Hessen.
There are actually very few surnames starting with N in either book, nothing that looks remotely like the surnames you have mentioned and the Heß surnames that show up are from the 1600's so not likely related to your Heinrick Hess.
Sorry I couldn't be more help :-\
Jenny
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Hello again Noandra,
I am not sure if you have found this website already or not but the Local Heritage Book for Leidhecken appears to be featured:
http://www.online-ofb.de/famlist.php?ofb=leidhecken&b=&lang=en&modus=
It shows some people with the surname Heß but not much yet again in the N section :-\
Thought it might help some....
Jenny
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Thank you so much for looking, it was a stab in the dark. The HESS family I seem to have traced back to the 1564 with a lot of help from other people but not much proof. The start is Jerg HESS b August 1564 mar to Margretha maiden name unknown they had 11 children. Jerg was born in Grötzingen, , Baden-Württemberg, Germany. If you have anthing on the surname HESS from Grötzingen 1592, or Nieder-Florstadt, Oberhesse 1622, or Nieder-Florstadt, Niederflorstadt 1667, or Leidhecken, , Hessen 1693 I would appreciate. They seem to have stayed in Leidhecken from 1693 to 1857 I think.
I cannot access the web site you gave me as my firewall will not let me, I will talk to my husband tomorrow and see if he can give me access.
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Sorry I couldn't be more help, I have nothing on the Heß surname that would help you. I only have the 2 books and they are very specific areas.
The link I posted is for the online Ortsfamilienbücher (heritage books) on the German genealogy.net website, hopefully you can find a way in ;)
This website is very helpful, but is pretty much all in German.......and I don't speak German at all, so you might need to have someone on Rootschat translate for you!
Good luck :)
Jenny
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Hi Noandra,
do you know which Grötzingen - there is one in Württemberg and one in Baden. If it's the one in Baden it seems to be a very strange place, see here : http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Gr%C3%B6tzinger_Einwohnerliste_von_1709
It's a list of citizens in 1709 - can't spot any women.
regards Peonie
added: is this your tree? http://www.remmick.org/Borodino.Bess.Genealogy/PageHess2.html
Seem to be your Hess family and they are from Württemberg (near Filderstadt)
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second try
hi Jen and Hi Peonie
many thanks for the replies and apologies for delay in getting back. Am a complete novice and struggling to work out how to answer. Too good to be true....... will just have to wait a bit longer for Christmas as I think you are both right....my Hommels must be from the Hessen nassau Oberwester waldkreis place ( makes English place names a doddle to pronounce!). I'm hoping the info you gave me Jen may be a good lead so once again thank you so much. If there's anything I can help with in return I'm more than willing...but probably not very efficient. It's great having people to help who know what they are doing....
gratefully
fleurjenny
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Hi Peonie,
Many thanks for the below link, I got lots of information I did not have, they mention my Hess family but do not have a lot on them but I found stacks of aunts and uncles. Great ....
http://www.remmick.org/Borodino.Bess.Genealogy/PageHess2.html
Thank you so much. :) :)
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Hey fleurjenny,
Was wondering where you had disappeared too ;)
Rootschat takes a bit of getting used to but it is a brilliant resource for all family historians, there is so much knowledge in this one forum...it is truly amazing ;D
Hopefully the Hommel/Hummel lead comes up trumps for you!
Have a read through some of the other forums to see if there are people you can help it is so rewarding!! It is great to be able to pass on some of the knowledge I have gained from years of research, but I am more often than not the one asking for the help!!
Jenny
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Hi Jen,
thanks for the encouragement. Must admit when I saw your first message I didn't really look at the rest of the site....I was too excited. Hopefully will have a bit more time soon so I can check out some of the other posts and see if I can be of any help to anyone. I'm not a twitterer (if thats the correct term or a face booker or anything else for that matter) hence my lack of expertise. My apologies if I am making any major etiquette gaffs. They would certainly not be intended.
thanks again smiley face (can't work out how to add it yet!)
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You'll get there mate! No etiquette gaffs here ;)
Jenny
P.S If you want to add the smileys, there should be a row just above the 'message' box when you write a reply or new topic, just click on the one you want and it will pop up! Hope that helps ;D
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Jenny -
Just came across your offer. I'm working on STORCK, GRILL, ENGEL and WALLBURG. What I am looking for is birth, death, marriage dates, and, of course parent names :) What I know is:
Georg Heinrich STORCK married Anna Margaretha GRILL. Gerhard, their first child, was born Dec 1799.
Hans Wilhelm Heinrich ENGEL married Cristina Dorothea WALLBURG. One child, Dorothea Cristina ENGEL was born 30 Oct 1806.
I am envious that you were able to visit Germany. I was there nearly 30 years ago, quite near where my rellies are from, but at that point I wasn't interested in genealogy. Someday I'll get back!
Thanks for much for your help.
Cindy
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Hi Cindy,
Welcome to Rootschat!!!
Are your families from Grüningen or Ober Rosbach?
I'll check my books for you ;)
Jenny
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Ok, well I have found your Storck/Grill family in Ober Rosbach as below:
Storck, Georg Henrich - Geburt (born) - 8 Dec 1779
- Heirat (married) - 17 Aug 1798
- Tod (died) - 9 Feb 1847
- Occupation - ackermann (loosly translated - farmer of crops I think)
Grill, Anna Margretha - Geburt (born) - 9 Mar 1780
- Tod (died) - 21 Feb 1852
Children:
Gerhard Storck - born 7 Dec 1799
Anna Elisabetha Storck - born 12 Feb 1802
Johann Philipp Storck - born 9 Nov 1804
Katharina Elisabetha Storck - born 12 Jan 1807
Elisabetha Katharina Storck - born 15 Apr 1809
Maria Margretha Storck - born 11 Oct 1811
Johann Georg Storck - born 28 Oct 1813
Johannes Storck - born 13 Jan 1816
Georg Henrich Storck - born 2 Feb 1818
Johann Georg Storck - born 6 July 1821
Maria Margretha Storck - born 21 Dec 1823
There are marriage and death dates for at least 10 of the children, but not for Gerhard....is this your line? Did he end up somewhere other than Ober Rosbach??
What is even better is there are details on the parents of both Georg and his wife Anna ;D
Georg Henrich Storck's parents were Anthon Storck and Anna Catharina Engel (there is info on their parents as well)
Anna Margetha Grill's parents were Johann Conrad Grill and Maria Dorothea Mattern (there is also information on their parents as well)
I am sooooooooooo happy that I have finally found someone's family in my little book!!!!!!!
I will keep looking for the other family and send you a PM as I imagine it may be easier for me to e-mail you the earlier generations as images rather than typing the whole thing out ;D
Just had a thought.....perhaps we are relatives? I have Engel's in my tree.....will check that too!
Jenny
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Well Cindy.....your Storck line goes back in Ober Rosbach to about 1645, the Grill line to about 1676, Mattern to 1674, and Engel to 1687!!!!
You have a pretty strong Ober-Rosbach connection there!!
I have taken photographs of the pages in the book for you as there is way too much to type ;)
Just PM me your e-mail address and I can send them to you ;D
I also have pictures of Ober Rosbach if you are interested in what the town looks like now!
Jenny
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Hans Wilhelm Heinrich ENGEL married Cristina Dorothea WALLBURG. One child, Dorothea Cristina ENGEL was born 30 Oct 1806.
Well I have had a good look in my Grüningen book and I cannot find the other family nor can I find them in the Ober Rosbach book :-\
There are no Wallburg's at all, nor Whalburg or any other spelling I could think of. There are plenty of Engel's about in both Ober Rosbach and Grüningen but none that match Hans Wilhelm Heinrich Engel...
Interestingly I looked up my Engel's and they are from Grüningen whereas yours from the Storck/Grill line are from Ober Rosbach so perhaps we aren't related after all....through our Angel families anyway ;)
Do you have any futher information on the family I can't locate?
Jenny
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Hey Cindy,
I found a marriage for what looks like your Dorothea Cristina Engel's brother Heinrich Ludwig Engel on Family Search as below:
Heinrich Ludwig Engel aged 25yrs (born abt 1816)
married: 31 May 1841 at Ockstadt
Sophia Stroehlein aged 30yrs (born abt 1811)
Groom's parents: Wilhelm Heinrich Engel & Christiane Dorothea Wollburg
Bride's parents: Joseph Stroehlein & Catharina Elisabetha Jacobi
Hope this helps ;)
Jen
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Jenny,
I would love to have pics of Ober Rosbach.
FYI - my direct line goes like this:
My mom
My grandmother Dorothy May Snyder Lane (b. 1907 Idaho)
Henry George Snyder (b. 1872 Ober Rosbach)
son of Johannes Schneider (b. 1847 Busenborn, Schotten) & Maria Katharina Storck (b. 1840 Ober Rosbach)
Maria Katharina Storck (b. 1840) was the daughter of Johann Philipp Storck (b. 1804 Ober Rosbach) and Dorothy Cristina Engel (b. 1806 Ober Rosbach).
I was wondering how you got a copy of the Familienbuch. Is it possible to purchase one?
Cheers,
Cindy
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Hello Cindy!
Thank you for e-mailing me I am off to work now, but when I get back in tonight I will e-mail you the info and some pictures of Ober Rosbach ;)
Thanks for the information on your line...now I can see why I can't find Dorothy Christina Engel's family. The page in the book that shows Johann Philipp Storck and his wife Dorotea says that she was born in 1804 but in Deckenbach....not sure where that is, but it gives you a lead at least!
Storck, Johann Philipp - born 9 Nov 1804 Ober Rosbach
- married 20 Oct 1835 Ober Rosbach
- Died 10 Dec 1869 Ober Rosbach
- Occupation - Küfermeister, Ackermann (Master Cooper/Farmer)
Engel, Dorotea Christiane Lisette - born 26 Nov 1806 Deckenbach
- died 8 Feb 1876 Ober Rosbach
Children (all born Ober Rosbach)
Lisette Susanne Storck - born 25 Mar 1836
Georg Heinrich Storck - born 18 Apr 1838
Maria Katharina Storck - born 14 Oct 1840
Elisabetha Storck - born 14 Feb 1845
Maria Katharina Storck and Johannes Schneider are in the book too (I will send you the page), it looks like Maria Katharina Storck also had an illegitimate child with a fellow named Franz Joseph Wolf in 1864, did you know about this child?
I was lucky enough to purchase a copy of the book through an Antique Dealer in Bonn, Germany. It was published in 1987 and I do not know if copies are still available anywhere, but you may be lucky and come across one as I did ;D
More to follow!
Jenny
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Righto Cindy, probably easier for me to type up the Schneider's as there is not a great deal of information on them:
Schneider, Johannes - born 1 Oct 1847 Busenborn
(I am not completely sure if the mention of Busenborn is his birthplace or his workplace)
- married 28 April 1872 Ober Rosbach
- died (unknown)
- occupation - Ackermann (farmer) *Busenborn (not sure what the * means)
Storck, Maria Katharina - born 14 Oct 1840 Ober Rosbach
- died (unknown)
Children (all born Ober Rosbach):
Georg Heinrich Schneider - born 24 Sept 1872
Elisabethe Schneider - born 14 Apr 1874
Maria Margarethe Schneider - born 14 Oct 1875
Wilhelm Schneider - born 12 Apr 1878
Lisette Susanne Schneider - born 4 Sept 1880 - died 28 Nov 1880
Caroline Schneider - born 18 Jun 1883 - died 5 Feb 1886
There are no details further back for Johannes Schneider as he was born outside the town and there are no details of descendants of this family....I am assuming that this is because the family emigrated to the USA? Did they come to Idaho sometime after 1886?
Hope this helps somewhat ;)
I have e-mailed the first installment of Storck family history too....Ober Rosbach style ;D
Jenny
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Just realised that I forgot the illegitimate child.....whoops ;)
Maria Katharina Storck (b 14 Oct 1840 Ober Rosbach) appears to have had a son:
Johann Philipp Wolf - born 19 Feb 1864 Ober Rosbach
The father is claimed to be:
Franz Joseph Wolf (no birth or death dates) it states though that he is a Hornist (translated to Bugler or Horn player) in Homburg. It also appears to state that he was born in Kirdorf
Perhaps Franz Joseph Wolf was in the army? or travelling through Ober Rosbach for some other reason? It does not give any other details for the son (marriage or death dates). Does the son show up in the family that went to America?
Hope that helps a bit :)
Jenny
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Jen,
Just found your post re: family lookup in Ober Rosbach. Fabulous offer. Thanks so much in advance. My great grand father's family was from Obber Rosbach. His name was Leonardt Herdt . He had a brother named Carl. Leonhart immigrated to the US in 1870 but his brother Carl stayed in Germany. Leonhart was born Dec 4 1851 in Ober Rosbach.
Anything that might appear in the document that you have relating to the Herdt family would be appreciated. No German spoken here so a translation is kindly appreciated.
Rick Hermann
Nixa MO
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Hello Rick,
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
I have had a look in my Ober-Rosbach Familienbuch for the Herdt family, I think I may have found your Leonardt Herdt and his family in Ober-Rosbach, but the birth date is a few days different and there is no brother named Carl...let me know what you think? It is possible that the family had other children in nearby Nieder-Rosbach (which is not covered in the book) or moved out of the area....
Henrich Anton Herdt (b 15 Jun 1825, d 11 July 1877) married 01 Aug 1852 Anna Elisabetha Rahn (b 11 Apr 1829, d 18 Mar 1896)
Henrich Anton Herdt was a miller
Children:
1. Leonhard Herdt (b 11 Dec 1851)
2. Dorothea Herdt (b 28 Apr 1854, m 23 Aug 1877, d 25 Nov 1877) it states that she was married and died in Nieder-Rosbach, but not who she married
3. Maria Katharina Herdt (b 03 Mar 1857, m 04 Mar 1883, d 11 Jun 1939) she married Johann Philipp Buch (occ Farmer & Smith)
4. Anna Elisabetha Herdt (b 19 Jan 1859, m 11 Jan 1885, d 6 Dec 1922) she married Karl Franz Hubert Alfred Buschmann (occ Mill Owner in Mainz)
5. Heinrich Leonard Herdt (b 11 Nov 1862, m1 26 Dec 1888 Maria Margaretha Welter, m2 22 Nov 1898 Eva Maria Kohlert, d 26 Apr/May 1945 (recorded as two different months in two different locations) occ Miller
6. Peter Herdt (b 13 Feb 1866, d 31 May 1866)
There is information back to the 1600's on this Herdt family, and information of the families of Leonhard's siblings and his mother's family. If you think this is your family let me know and I can transcribe it for you. These books are such a wealth of knowledge...I LOVE German ancestry ;)
I had a bit of a look on Ancestry too, and Leonhard Herdt (of St Louis) shows up with a birth date of 11 Dec 1851 on his US passport application in 1876...is this your fellow? If so the Leonhard above is a match, usually when there is no info in the book on a particular person they have left the village or emigrated to another country.
Jenny
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JENNY,
YOU"VE GOT IT!!!!! These Herdts are my family. Remarkable!!! According to the info that you provided, Karl is Leonhard's brother-in-law, not his brother as I believed. I too, found the passport application on-line when he came to St. Louis. I was born and raised in St. Louis and lived in a flat that Leonhard and his wife once owned but he passed away in 1939, 7 years before I was born. My grandmother (Leonhard's daughter) took ownership of his real estate holdings when he passed away. He and his wife are buried in St. Louis. If you are willing, I would like to have all info on the Herdt -Rahn-Buschmann family ancester information transcribed. REMARKABLE.
If there are any expenses associated with this effort. please let me know.
Much thanks,
Rick H.
P.S. Is that your cat pictured on your posts?
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Hey Rick,
Glad we could make a match! There is no cost involved, I bought the Ober-Rosbach Familienbuch many years ago, and it simply sits in my bookcase until someone needs a look up, centuries of German Ancestry enclosed in one little book....priceless ;)
I will start transcribing and get back to you, and yes that is my 'late' cat in my posts, he passed away a few years ago now. Gorgeous soul that he was.
Jenny
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ok, I will start with Leonhard's siblings who remained in Germany: Unless stated otherwise all births, marriages & deaths are in Ober-Rosbach
Leonhard Herdt - your family in the US
Dorothea Herdt - no details other than her marriage and death dates in Nieder-Rosbach (you will need to locate the Nieder-Rosbach records)
Maria Katharina Herdt (b 03 Mar 1857, m 04 Mar 1883, d 11 Jun 1939) married Johann Philipp Buch (b 26 Feb 1856, d 14 Mar 1931) (occ Farmer & Smith) - NB there is ancestry in Ober-Rosbach for the Buch family if you require it.
Children:
1. Johann Philipp Buch (b 24 Apr 1884, d 4 Dec 1885)
2. Heinrich Buch (b 4 Oct 1885, m 22 Nov 1908 - note there is no detail of who he married as the records in my book stop at 1900)
3. Philipp Buch (b 24 Jan 1889, m 21 Jan 1917 - note there is no detail of who he married as the records in my book stop at 1900)
4. Anna Elisabetha Buch (b 19 Mar 1890, m 27 Oct 1912 - note there is no detail of who she married as the records in my book stop at 1900)
5. Maria Buch (b 28 May 1895, m 25 Dec 1919 - note there is no detail of who she married as the records in my book stop at 1900)
Anna Elisabetha Herdt (b 19 Jan 1859, m 11 Jan 1885, d 6 Dec 1922) married Karl Franz Hubert Alfred Buschmann (b 30 Apr 1858, d 1 Nov 1914) (occ Mill Owner in Mainz) - there is no information on the Buschmann's prior to Karl, I suspect they came from Mainz.
Children:
1. Heinrich Leonhardt Wilhelm Buschmann (b 23 Nov 1886, m 18 May 1911 - note there is no detail of who he married as the records in my book stop at 1900)
2. Elisabethe Anna Buschmann (b 9 May 1891, m 4 Mar 1920 - note there is no detail of who she married as the records in my book stop at 1900)
Heinrich Leonhardt Herdt (b 11 Nov 1862, d 26 Apr/May 1945 (recorded as two different months in two different locations) occ Miller
m1 26 Dec 1888 Maria Margaretha Welter (b 11 Oct 1866 Nieder-Rosbach, d 21 Feb 1894) - no further info on the Welter's
Children:
1. Heinrich Herdt (b 23 May 1889)
2. Wilhelm Herdt (b 6 July 1890, d 19 Oct 1890)
3. Wilhelm Herdt (b 6 Jan 1892)
4. Elisabetha Herdt (b 29 Mar 1893, d 16 Apr 1948)
m2 22 Nov 1898 Eva Maria Kohlert (b 26 May 1870 Oberseimen, d 22 Dec 1924) - no further info on the Kohlert's either
Children:
1. Elisabetha Herdt (b 2 Dec 1898, m 18 Apr 1920)
2. Emilie Herdt (b 26 Oct 1899)
Hope that helps :)
Jenny
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Now Leonhard's father's and mother's families: Unless stated otherwise all births, marriages & deaths are in Ober-Rosbach
Johann Heinrich Hert (b 17 Jan 1786, m 27 Mar 1817, d 06 Aug 1857) married Elisabetha Katharina Schlottner (b 2 Dec 1791, d 30 Dec 1831) - there is more ancestry on both the Herdt and Schlottner families
Johann Heinrich Hert was an ackermann (ploughman)
Children:
1. Elisabetha Hert (b 1 Jan 1818, m 9 Feb 1840, d 08 Aug 1886) - she married Georg Henrich Backes (occ Wagner or Carter), they had 10 children
2. Elisabetha Katharina Hert (b 24 Nov 1820, m 20 Sept 1846, d 6 Sept 1907 - she married Johann Caspar Hock (occ ploughman/coachman), they had 5 children
3 & 4. Dead twin daughters (b 13 Feb 1823, d 13 Feb 1823)
5. Henrich Anton Hert - as already supplied below
6. Maria Katharina Hert (b 2 Dec 1827, m 19 Nov 1854, d 25 Mar 1930) - she married Heinrich Anton Backes (occ turner), they had 2 children
Johan Leonhard Rahn (b 27 Oct 1799, m 28 Jan 1827, d 15 Feb 1861) married Maria Elisabetha Wentzel (b 27 Aug 1807, d 13 Apr 1888) - there is more ancestry on both the Rahn and Wentzel families
Johan Leonhard Rahn was a miller and ploughman
Children:
1. Anna Elisabetha Rahn - as already supplied below
2. Leonhard Rahn (b 13 Jun 1831, d 13 Feb 1834)
3. Leonhard Rahn (b 4 Apr 1834, m 17 June 1858, d 10 Sept 1902) - (occ cooper) he married Maria Catharina Schreiber, they had 5 children
4. Johann Georg Rahn (b 26 Apr 1836, m 17 Dec 1864 in Genf) - he married Magdalena Aergerter, and had one child
5. Philipp Rahn (b 12 Sept 1838)
6. Elise Rahn (b 6 July 1844, m 28 Dec 1865) - she married Leonhard Weinschenk (occ Head waiter), they had one child
7. Dorothea Rahn (b 25 Feb 1846)
8. Jacob Rahn (b 7 July 1848)
There is obviously more information of the families of Leonhard's aunts and uncles on both sides, and I can supply this if needed
Perhaps I will send you a PM, so that we can correspond via e-mail....it may be easier ;)
Jenny
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Hi Jen, Thank you for your generous offer to do a look up from your book. I don't know if you can help me but I'm searching for a family from Lichenroth, Main-Kinzig-Kreis, Hesse, Germany, who immigrated to the US in 1849. Heinrich Spahn, born in the 1790s, his wife, Eva Catherine and children, Casper, b. 1819, Heinrich, b. 1823, Balthazar, Peter and Adam. Both Peter and Heinrich listed their hometown as Liechenrod/ Lichenroth on their Civil War papers. I'm not sure this town is in the same area but if you find anything it will be appreciated.
Thank you again,
Becky
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Hello Becky,
Welcome to Rootschat ;)
Unfortunately I only have the books for Oberrosbach v.d. Höhe & Grüningen, which although they are both in Hesse, are an hour or two drive from Lichenroth. The books are very specific and are the records (birth, deaths and marriages) for the Parish only, they don't even cover Nieder-Rosbach which is right next door. They group the records in families so are very useful for family historians.
I had a look just in case but there are no Spahn's in either book.
Sorry I couldn't help
Jenny
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Thank you for looking Jen. I haven't found any records for Lichenroth prior to 1874 but was hopeful. I appreciate you taking the time to look!
Becky
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no worries, you never know unless you ask ;)
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Hi there, just stumbled across this forum because I was looking for information out of the book 'Familienbuch fuer Grueningen.
Are you still available for this?
Johann Nicolaus Weidenhausen born jan 1722 in Gruening, he married a Anna Elisabeth Henkel also from Grueningen.
I'm mainly interested in the previous generations. Are there many generations of Weidenhausen? Or only 1 or two? Where did the come from etc.
Thanks.
P.S.: Is the book about Grueningen still available to buy somewhere?
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Hi there Sunnyblueskies...welcome to Rootschat!
I am so sorry for the delay in replying, for some reason I did not get a notification of your post.
In answer to your queries, yes I am more than happy to check the copy of the Grüningen familienbucher I have for your names, but, no I don't believe that it is available for purchase anymore. Though I would love to find one myself, as I only have a photocopy! It was originally published in 1990, you may be able to locate one in a library depending on where you live though.
I descend from the Weidenhausen/Weydenhausen family from Grüningen myself, and the records of this family in the familienbuch date back to the mid 1600's.
I am very happy to say that I have found your ancestor ;D
Johann Nicolaus Weidenhausen was born 6 Jan 1722 in Grüningen to Johann Adam Weidenhausen and Elisabetha Heller, he was the fifth of their 8 children. His father Johann Adam Weidenhausen was married twice, and had a total of 13 children all up...though not many lived to adulthood.
Johann Adam Weidenhausen - born 29 Nov 1675, died 27 Feb 1735
First marriage: 21 Jan 1705
First wife: Anna Catharina Leydich - born 9 May 1686, died 18 Apr 1712
Children:
1. Johann Caspar Weidenhausen - born 14 Feb 1706, died 21 Jun 1709
2. Anna Margretha Weidenhausen - born 4 Nov 1708, died 28 Nov 1710
3. Anna Maria Weidenhausen - born 8 Aug 1710, died 24 Jan 1759
4. Johann Zacharias Weidenhausen - born 20 Dec 1711, died 1 Mar 1735 (twin)
5. Johannes Weidenhausen - born 20 Dec 1711, died 13 Jan 1712
Second marriage: 18 Mar 1713
Second wife: Elisabetha Heller - born 1687, died 30 May 1747
Children:
1. Johann Peter Weidenhausen - born 4 Feb 1714
2. Anna Gertrauda Weidenhausen - born 13 Jan 1715, died 11 Dec 1789
3. Johannes Weidenhausen - born 30 Mar 1717
4. Catharina Weidenhausen - born 20 Apr 1719
5. Johann Nicolaus Weidenhausen - born 6 Jan 1722
6. Johann Balthasar Weidenhausen - born 16 May 1724, died 2 May 1808
7. Johann Zacharias Eberhard Weidenhausen - born 22 Nov 1726, died 16 May 1787
8. Anna Margaretha Weidenhausen - born 8 Dec 1729, died 18 Dec 1729
Usually when there are no burial details in the familienbuch it means that the person moved away from Grüningen, is this the case with your Johann Nicolaus Weidenhausen?
There are details in the book for the families of his brothers Johann Balthasar Weidenhausen, and Johann Zacharias Weidenhausen, but nothing for your fellow.
Let me know when you receive this information ok, and I will transcribe the details for the earlier generations for you. There is information for Johann Adam Weidenhausen's parents; Johann Jacob Weydenhausen & Elisabetha Metter (or Gilbert), and for his grandparents Reichhard & Anna Elisabetha Weidenhausen. I also descend from this couple.....so we are very distantly related ;)
I can also see an entry for Elisabetha Heller's parents Johann Peter Heller & Catharina Marsteller.
At this stage I cannot see any entries in the familienbucher for Henkel, are you sure Anna Elisabeth Henkel was born in Grüningen? Do you have a bith date for her?
Glad I can help with the Weidenhausen's at least!
Jenny
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Hi distant relative. So nice to hear from you!!!
Through online familiy trees I was able to get some information up to Johann Jacob W. and Elisabeth Meder. Don't know if it's correct or not, because I can't look it up at Archion in Grueningen churchbooks. Do you know if any Churchbooks of Grueningen are online?
For Johann Peter Heller I have birth and death date, but not where he was born or his parents.
For Catharina Marsteller I have more through Marsteller geneology available, but not her mother?
Anna Elisabeth Henkel supposedly died in Grueningen on 27 jan 1797? Her parents are Johann Henrich Henkel (1689 - 1754) died in Wetter, Marburg area.
His wife was from Ockershausen, Anna Maria (Margarethe) Orthwein, born 1700 in Ockershausen. There is more available for her through the 'Marburger Sippenbuch' on Genwiki.
What do you know about the generations of Weidenhausen prior to Johann Jacob? Would love to find out.
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Hello again, lovely to have connected with you ;)
I saw your tree on Ancestry, and I can see that you already have the detail from the Grüningen familienbucher. The author's of the online family trees you mentioned must have had access to the book. The Grüningen familienbucher covers the period from 1647-1900, so it does not go back further than Johann Nicolaus Weidenhausen's grandparents, Reichhard & Anna Elisabetha Weidenhausen, who I see are in your tree. They are the first Weidenhausen family in the book. I suspect that they were from Grüningen, but that cannot be confirmed.
The book simply states the below for the couple:
Reichhard Weidenhausen - "ohne Angaben" meaning "without details"
Wife: Anna Elisabetha - "ohne Angaben" meaning "without details"
Children:
1. Johann Jacob Weidenhausen - born 9 Dec 1646, died 27 May 1722 (your ancestor)
2. Johann Wilhelm Weidenhausen - born 22 Dec 1650, died 23 Oct 1729 (my ancestor)
The book states the below for your fellow, it does not give any other details:
Johann Jacob Weydenhausen - born 9 Dec 1646, died 27 May 1722
Marriage: 13 Nov 1673
Wife: Elisabeth Metter (or Gilbert?) - born 1648, died 25 Dec 1734
Children:
1. Johann Adam Weydenhausen - born 29 Nov 1675, died 27 Feb 1735
2. Johann Wilhelm Weydenhausen - born 12 Mar 1679, died 11 Nov 1729
3. Johann Jacob Weydenhausen - born 18 ? 1681, died 19 Nov 1713
4. Anna Margretha Weydenhausen - born 19 Mar 1684, died 2 Mar 1760
5. Johannes Weydenhausen - born 26 Aug 1687, died 11 Sep 1760
6. Johann Nicolaus Weydenhausen - born 19 Feb 1690, died 15 Jan 1742
So it looks like all the children lived to adulthood and remained in Grüningen. Are you also following the other lines down?
You are correct, Archion.net does not yet have any church books for Grüningen, but the LDS Church have filmed some, there are films back to the 1600's, but only 1810 onwards appear to be available online in any capacity. So too late to check the supposed death of Anna Elisabeth Henkel in 1797.
From looking at the Grüningen familienbucher I would say that she was definitely not born in Grüningen. I would also think that as the family is not mentioned in the Grüningen familienbucher neither she nor Johann Nicolaus Weidenhausen died there, or had children there.
I have got to pop out now, but I will type up the details for the Heller/Marsteller family later ;)
Jenny
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The entry in the Grüningen familienbucher for your Heller family, is as per your tree on Ancestry.
It states:
Johann Peter Heller - born May 1654, died 11 Jun 1730 - "ohne herkunftsangabe" meaning "without indication of origin"
married: 7 Apr 1681
Wife: Catharina Marsteller - born 10 Apr 1658, died 10 Mar 1732
Children:
1. Catharina Heller - born 14 Sept 1684
2. Johannes Heller - born 8 May 1690, died 27 Oct 1762
3. Gertraud Heller - born 1693, died 4 Apr 1771
4. Johann Zacharias Heller - born 6 Mar 1696, died 7 Dec 1782
Nachtrag: meaning "addendum" or "supplement"
5. Elisabetha Heller - born 1687, died 30 May 1747
6. Anna Maria Heller - born 1682, died 21 Mar 1759
I can only imagine that the "added" daughters, including your Elisabetha, do not feature in the baptisms, but named Johann Peter Heller & Catharina Marsteller as their parents at the time of their death or marriage??
I descend from a Heller family in Grüningen, but a different line, so perhaps our families link there as well ;)
I also descend from your Metter and Marsteller families.......I sometimes think I am related to everyone in Grüningen one way or another ;D
Catharina Marsteller's family is below, it is the first Marsteller family in the book. You will note that there isn't a date for their marriage in the book, but I see you have a date in your tree.
Johann Wilhelm Marsteller - born 1626, died 6 May 1702 - "ohne herkunftsangabe" meaning "without indication of origin"
Wife: Maria - born 1631, died 14 Mar 1712 - "ohne herkunftsangabe" meaning "without indication of origin"
Children:
1. Johann Zacharias Marsteller - born 7 Aug 1653, died 9 Jan 1726 (my ancestor)
2. Johann Peter Marsteller - born 23 Sept 1655
3. Anna Catharina Marsteller - born 10 Apr 1658, died 10 Mar 1732 (your ancestor)
4. Johann Jacob Marsteller - born 29 Jan 1660, died 13 Oct 1739 (also my ancestor)
5. Barbara Catharina Marsteller - born 5 Jun 1664, died 22 Sept 1738
6. Johann Balthasar Marsteller - born 31 Jan 1669, died 19 Aug 1750
Your Metter family is also as per your Ancestry tree:
Balthasar Metter (also Meder) - died 22 Feb 1675
wife: Anna Margretha - "keine angaben" meaning "no information provided"
Children:
1. Elisabeth Metter - born 27 Feb 1648 (NB - her death is not recorded in this family entry)
2. Johann Adan Metter - born 15 Sept 1650, died 19 Mar 1706 (my ancestor)
3. Catharina Metter - born 7 Aug 1653
4. Johann Cloß Metter - born 20 Mar 1658, died 12 Nov 1709
5. Zacharias Metter - born 27 Jan 1661
6. Johann Wilhelm Metter - born 24 Aug 1662
7. Johannes Metter - born 16 Feb 1668, died 15 Apr 1731
8. Anna Margarethe Metter - born 1655, died 18 Apr 1717 (I am not sure why she is listed last)
There is also a note stating:
"Vorseitig genannter Balthasar Meder war Consul (= Bürgermeister) 1651 laut Glockeninschrift Grüningen"
which translates to:
Balthasar Meder mentioned above was consul (= mayor) 1651 according to the bell inscription Grüningen
I hope that helps verify the information in your family tree ;)
Jenny
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Oh awesome. Yes it verifies some of the dates etc. I'm usually cautions adding information simply from other online family trees and taking the names and dates for granted, but at times when I hit a brick wall, it's really the only thing one can do.
I have a part of my family coming from one village and yes it seems everyone is related somehow. =)
At this point I'm just working on 'going back' through the generations, not so much forward. Except if the information has already been researched and is available through birthcertificates etc. online.
Do you have any secrets on how you approach your research once you hit a brickwall and can't find anymore information? Like what do we do with the Weidenhausen line since we can't go any further back then Reichard? ???
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Hi sunnyblueskies,
Glad the book could confirm the information in the online trees for you. I also work to confirm everything that I find in online trees, as there are so many mistakes circulating around! Hopefully the Grüningen church books will become available on Archion.net at some point in the near future so that we can see the actual entries....fingers crossed ;)
Genealogical information prior to the mid 1600's is extremely hard to find unless you were from a wealthy family, and I do not think that our Grüningen family were....there is the reference to Balthasar Metter/Meder being a Mayor in Grüningen in 1651, so the local historical societies may have more information on him I guess if you wanted to chase that. I visited Grüningen back in 2006 and the Mayor at the time showed me around, he was very pleased to be welcoming me to the town. So many people from the village left and settled in other countries, he treated me like a long lost daughter! My Marsteller family left Grüningen in the 1850's for Australia, when did your family leave? Are you researching from Canada/America?
The vast majority of German churchbooks do not have any information prior to the 30 year war (1618-1648), but I can see that you are already aware of this from your posts in the Archion.net forum.
https://www.archion.de/de/forum/?tx_mmforum_pi1%5Btopic%5D=12337&tx_mmforum_pi1%5Baction%5D=show&tx_mmforum_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=Topic&cHash=271d25492e861204fcb62c22678f24dd
To be honest, I am pretty chuffed that I can trace my German family back to the 1600's....that is no mean feat. We might just have to be satisfied with that for our Grüningen ancestors ;)
I have attached a photo from my trip, so you can see Grüningen too...the church is in the centre of the picture ;D
Jenny
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Wow, thanks for the picture. That would have been neat to visit the town/village and have somebody show you around.
No I'm not such an old emigrated family. I personally emigrated about 25 years ago, but I also haven't been back in that long. Still have some family there but they are not as invested into genealogy. Seems like one is more interested in the past when one is removed from the area?
Did you visit the town of Weidenhausen too? I haven't found out yet what the relation between the town and the name is. But since we come from peasants and tradespeople I figure we once belonged to the place. =)
Yes I'm in Canada now. =)
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No I didn't get to Weidenhausen....I have a few surnames in my German family that are also town names....and yes I suspect as you do that we once belonged to those places.
And yes, you are probably right, people tend to be more interested in the past if their families left an area rather than if they stayed.
Good luck with the rest of your research ;)
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Hello JenClark:
I realize this thread is quite old, but ..
I wonder if you could check your family history church books for surnames
Göbel and Goebel from Oberroßach. Specifically I am looking for any and all
information about a Johannes P. Goebel (1778-1819). I believe Johannes
was married to Maria Catharina Elisabetha Flick(1783-1859). I am looking
for details about there children, specifically if they had a son Daniel(1806-1872), who in
turn also had a son named Ludwig(1840-1908). I have actually been in contact
with Cathy Mellor who I saw mentioned in this thread. Cathy's research of
the Goebel name stopped with Johannes P. as mentioned above. I am hoping to
find details of his ancestors. Thank you!
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HI
do you have an Ancestry subscription?
there´s a Goebel Family tree on there going back to 1690
The names coincide with yours
Dave
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Hi Wjhchez65,
I am sorry, but I don't think my Familienbuch will be any help. I believe your family may be from Ober-Roßbach, Oberwesterwaldkreis (Hessen-Nassau), and my book covers a different town with the same name in Hessen-Darmstadt. If you look at the part of the thread where Cathy Mellor is mentioned, we came to this conclusion.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberro%C3%9Fbach (yours)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ober-Rosbach (mine)
There is only one Göbel family in my Familienbuch which is:
Johann Heinrich Göbel & Anna Elisabetha Will who were married on 9 Jan 1731. They were not from the town though and no children were born there.
I wish you luck chasing down your rellies...perhaps the family tree that Dave mentioned on Ancestry might help?
Jenny
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Yes, Dave the large tree of Goebels on Ancestry is that created by Cathy Mellor and I have studied it and been in contact with Cathy. Cathy just stopped her research in my tree around 1800, and I needed to continue it forward.
Jenny I think your book is not what I needed, but what I needed specifically I managed to find on archion.de under "Hessen-Nassau: Zentralarchiv der Evang. Kirche > Dekanat Marienberg > Emmerichenhain". For about $25.00 and about 20 minutes I managed to locate the baptism records for 4 generations of my grandfathers. I highly recommend this archion.de web site, though it helps to be able to read old script, or to know someone that can... and it definitely helps to know full dates of birth for your relies.. otherwise you will be paging through old script for days!
Thanks for responding to my inquiry. Best of luck with your research!
Bill
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The tree i meant is
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/77022670/person/30568043226/facts
i don´t think it is from Cathy Mellor
as i said it goes back to 1690
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Hey Dave.. it turns out you are referring to my tree! Much of what I have there is from Cathy Mellor's research. Thank you for attempting to help I appreciate it! Best of luck with your research.
Bill
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Hey Bill,
Glad to hear you have had some luck on Archion - it is a brilliant site and has helped me a great deal with some branches of my tree. They are uploading records for more and more towns all the time, so it is always good to check back and see if areas you are interested in have been added.
And for the record....I loved scrolling through pages of old German script for days on end ;)
Jenny
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Hi Bill
i think this could be one of your people
Anna Catharina Theiss(in), died 17 dec 1800 in Jesberg
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=61229&h=11785395&indiv=try&ftm=1
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Thank you for that link. It appears the link is from Ancestry.com in the UK, and does appear to be a match for the Anna Catherina Goebel (Theiss) in my tree. I find it odd that I see various hints from Ancestry via the U.S. web site for this same person, however nothing referred me to the link you sent. In any case I appreciate you sending the link.
Thanks again,
Bill
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Birth of daughter Anna 1793??
Germany, Lutheran Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1500-1971 for Anna Elisabeth Goebel
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61229/images/0865098-00542?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.106962432.367602021.1621453146-561822886.1550958279&ftm=1&pId=11784638