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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Bobkat on Wednesday 02 July 08 20:22 BST (UK)

Title: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Bobkat on Wednesday 02 July 08 20:22 BST (UK)

Looking for William Mudge b. 4 Q 1838 Tavistock district. Parents William  and Jane. Don't know if he had any siblings.
 Many thanks,
 Bob

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 02 July 08 21:09 BST (UK)

Bob - hi there -

I can't see a family that fits your profile in 1841.  However, there is a William Mudge b. 1843 on the 1851 census, with parents William and Jane, in Tavistock - they are also there in 1841 with no William  :(

How sure are you of the dates and parents names?

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Bobkat on Friday 04 July 08 20:58 BST (UK)

Dear Mum,
 Date and parents are from a History of Schenectady County, where William ended up and married a great great grand aunt of mine. (Nancy Mott). I expect that any error could be in the date.  Please  send "parents" in 1841 and family in 1851. I'll compare all that with other info sources.
Thanks,
 Bobby

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Mum44 on Friday 04 July 08 21:23 BST (UK)

 

Hi Bob

Here you are then

1841 :  HO107.  P. 249/12  Fol.30  Pg. 54

Exeter Street, Tavistock

MUDGE
William  23  Ag Lab
Jane  25
Mary Ann  4
Elizabeth  2

NEXT DOOR  - or possibly in the same building :
John  50    Ag Lab.
Mary  45
Mary Ann 20
Jane  18
George  15

(included since they may be related)

All born county


1851:  HO107.  P. 1883  Fol. 463  Pg. 24

11 Kilworth Lane, Tavistock

MUDGE
William  Head  M  32  Farm labourer  B. Devon  Tavistock
Jane  Wife  M  38                               B. Devon, Whitchurch
Mary Ann  Dau  14                             B.  Devon, Tavistock
William  Son  8                                         ~            ~
John  Son  5                                            ~            ~


Hope this helps  :D

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Bobkat on Saturday 05 July 08 14:47 BST (UK)

Mum,
 Many thanks. 1880 and 1900 census data have birthdate ca. 1843 consistent with 1851 Census.
 Bob

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Mum44 on Saturday 05 July 08 15:01 BST (UK)

Bob  -  you're very welcome  :D

Do you need him in 1861 and/or 1871 and/or 1891 ?  or the family ?

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: themexican on Friday 03 January 20 19:40 GMT (UK)

Hi Bobkat. I'd love to get any info you might have on
William Mudge (Also William Scott Mudge) b 1843 Tavistock

.  Was Nancy Mott a second marriage? It's the first time I've seen her name mentioned.

My info:
William Scoatch Mudge (coachman) (also Scott-Mudge and Scotch-Mudge)
b. 17 June 1843 Tavistock, Devon  (The birthdate is speculation, though the place is fairly well established)
d. 1894, 3 Trenchard St, Bristol. ( son of William Scott Mudge b.?  and Jane Collins Neale b?)

Eliza Sheppard Gray
b April 1847 Mere, Wiltshire
d Mar 1894, (typhoid fever @ Bristol City Workhouse at Stapleton)

Children all born in Bristol include:

Frederick William 1867-1937
Alice Kate 1869-1952
Ethel Rosina 1871-1933
Ernest John 1874-1949
Alfred Nelson 1876-1877
Edith Blanche 1878-1967
Florence Louise 1880-1967
Beatrice Minnie 1884-1936
Sidney Herbert 1888-1966
Augustus Nelson 1882-1936. (departed for Canada in 1896. By 1908 was settled in Maine and married to Adela Rice Fenton (1886-1938) from Cork.

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: DOB7 on Friday 03 January 20 19:58 GMT (UK)

A William Collins Scott MUDGE was baptised at Tavistock Parish Church 10 Sept 1843, son of William (a labourer) & Jane of Exeter Street.
The parents married by licence at Plymouth St Andrew 6 June 1836 and were shown as William Scott MUDGE (a quarryman) and Jane Collins NEALE.

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: DOB7 on Friday 03 January 20 20:00 GMT (UK)

William Scott MUDGE (the father) was also baptised at Tavistock 13 Feb 1819, son of John (labourer) & Mary Ann of Taylors Square.
Jane Collins NEAL was baptised at Walkhampton 28 Jun 1812, dau of Lawrence & Sarah.

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: themexican on Friday 03 January 20 22:04 GMT (UK)

Thank you DOB7!! I've been looking for this information for years, though (or course) I now have a few more questions.

Were these lookups from parish church records?

Would it be unusual that Jane Collins Neale (b 1812) was 7 years older than her husband William Scott Mudge (b 1819)

Finally, if you are able to post and further information on John Mudge / Mary Ann _____ ? and Lawrence Neale / Sarah _______ mentioned in the last post we would most appreciate it!

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: DOB7 on Saturday 04 January 20 10:05 GMT (UK)

Hello and glad to have helped. Yes the information came from PRs. The marriage was by licence which often indicates that one of the parties was under 21. Jane Collins NEAL(E) was 24 at time of marriage and William Scott MUDGE was only 17. They also baptised at Tavistock a daughter, Mary Ann Collins MUDGE 21 Sept 1836 so it looks as though it may have been a 'shotgun' wedding.
If you go to FREECEN and search in the 1841 census https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl , you will find this family living at Exeter Street, Tavistock: Piece: HO107/249 Place: Tavistock -Devon Enumeration District: 9
Civil Parish: Tavistock Ecclesiastical Parish: Exeter Street
Folio: 30 Page: 54
Address: Exeter Street
William Mudge Male 23  Devon, England
Jane Mudge Female 25  Devon, England
Mary Ann Mudge Female 4 Devon, England
Elizabeth Mudge Female 0 Devon, England
John Mudge Male 50 Devon, England
Mary Mudge Female 45 Devon, England
Mary Ann Mudge Female 20 Devon, England
Jane Mudge Female 18 Devon, England
George Mudge Male 15 Devon, England

William's parents are also living in the household. Jane's age is 'adjusted' but the 1841 census required people's ages to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years.

In the 1851 census William's age was given as 32 with Jane's as 38.

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 04 January 20 11:24 GMT (UK)

Quote from: themexican on Friday 03 January 20 19:40 GMT (UK)

Was Nancy Mott a second marriage? It's the first time I've seen her name mentioned.

Willaim Scott MUDGE and the William MUDGE who married Nancy MOTT Iin the USA are two different men.

Debra  :D

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: themexican on Tuesday 07 January 20 04:49 GMT (UK)

Thanks again. Very helpful!

I can corroborate some of this  with other sources and DNA matches:

So I now have in the household in Tavistock:
John Mudge (1791-?) - Mary Ann ____ (1796 - 1875?)

Whose children were:
William Scott Mudge (1819- ?)
Mary Ann Mudge (1821-?)
Jane Mudge (1823-?)
George Mudge (1826-?)

And William Scott Mudge next door with his slightly older wife Jane Collins Neale (1812) and their children:

Mary Ann Collins Mudge (1836-1912) Devon, England
Elizabeth Mudge (1841-? )
William Neals Collins Scott Mudge (1843 Tavistock-1894 Bristol)
John Mudge (1847-1912)
Sarah Collins Mudge (1854-?)

Of course this has opened some new questions:

1. Is there any evidence to be found that John Mudge (b 1791) who lived in Tavistock is the son of the Vicar John Mudge (b. 1763 Exeter Brampford Speke, Devon-d. 1847 St Thomas, Devonshire, United Kingdom). Other than the date and a genetic connection with other relatives I have no direct evidence. Would it be unlikely that the a vicars son would be an agricultural laborer in a town 40 miles away?

2. you noted: William Scott MUDGE (b 1919) was baptised at Tavistock 13 Feb 1819, son of John (labourer) & Mary Ann of Taylors Square. Is Taylor's square a local address or another village?

3 you noted: Jane Collins NEAL was baptised at Walkhampton 28 Jun 1812, daughter of Lawrence & Sarah.  Any further info on Lawrence or Sarah?

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 07 January 20 07:51 GMT (UK)

Quote from: themexican on Tuesday 07 January 20 04:49 GMT (UK)

1. Is there any evidence to be found that John Mudge (b 1791) who lived in Tavistock is the son of the Vicar John Mudge (b. 1763 Exeter Brampford Speke, Devon-d. 1847 St Thomas, Devonshire, United Kingdom).

Other than the date and a genetic connection with other relatives I have no direct evidence. Would it be unlikely that the a vicars son would be an agricultural laborer in a town 40 miles away?

Don't know if this will be of any help

Mudge, John s. Thomas, of London, gent.
Pembroke Coll., matric, 9 June 1780 age 17
BA 1784; MA from Christ’s College., Cambridge 1792
Vicar of Brampford Speke, Devon 1790 and
Rector of Lustleigh 1791 until his death 3 May 1847
Oxford University Alumni, 1500-1886

The Reverend John Mudge
Probate Date:   19 Jun 1847
Residence:   Brampford Speke, Devon, England

Do you have access  to Anc*y as there is a Will for Rev John Mudge
can make out
Sons Jo?n Mudge of Brampford Speke, ?ard Rosc? Mudge
son in law William Butterfl? dau Charlotte
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858

His wife is named Agnes on 1841c (nee Rosdew) they married 1789 Yealmpton Devon

there’s this index of  two christenings

John Mudge
Baptism 14 Jan 1792 Yealmpton,Devon
Father:   John Mudge Mother:   Agness

Maria Jennette Mudge
Baptism 17 Nov 1801 Brampford Speke,Devon,England
Father:   John Mudge Mother:   Agnes

Maria is on same 1841 census with John & Agnes Mudge and her husband John Alexander MOUAT they married 24 April 1828 Brampford Speke , her probate 1889 to Niece Jessie Eleanor Colton (added - Jessy(ie) is the daughter of William Butterfield Colton & Charlotte nee Mudge) see 1868 probate
WBC

There is this baptism in Tavistock for a John Mudge

John base born son of Elizabeth Mudge, pauper
Baptism 22 Apr 1794 Tavistock
Denomination   Anglican
Archive   South West Heritage Trust
Archive reference   482A/PR/1/4
Record set   Devon Baptisms

Edited to add possible marriage of Rev John Mudge's daughter Charlotte

Charlotte Mudge
Marriage 4 Aug 1814 Brampford Speke,Devon,England
Spouse:   William Butterfield Colton

Further details of the marriage index

William of the parish of Liverpool in county of Lancaster, merchant
Charlotte of this Parish married by License with consent of (blank)
they were married by John Mudge Vicar (presumably her father)
Witnesses were Richard Rosdow Mudge, Ellen Colton & Mary Clements

Charlotte & WBC had at least 10 children all Bpt St Phillip's Liverpool

Title: Re: William MUDGE 1841 Tavistock dist
Post by: themexican on Tuesday 07 January 20 21:31 GMT (UK)

Thank you Ladyhawk!
It seems much more likely that John Mudge the farm laborer(b 1791) was the son of pauper Elizabeth Mudge and baptized in 1794 in Tavistock rather than the son of an educated Vicar a town or two away.  I'm interested in chasing down any leads that give more color on this, but I expect we're near the end of the paper trail and the next step would be traipsing around a graveyard or two.

In case anyone is interested in the Vicar's family:

John Mudge (b1763-d1847) - Agnes Rosdew (b1766-d1844)

their children included:
Charlotte Mudge 1790-1836
John Mudge 1791-1874
Richard Mudge 1794-1885
Janetta Mudge 1801-1889

John Mudge (b1763) was the son of the well-known watchmaker

Thomas Mudge (1717-1794) and Abigail Hopkins (1725-1789).