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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: minimaiden2710 on Sunday 06 July 08 07:58 BST (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone know of The Garlands Institute and of how I can find out exacly what it was? I have Googled it but drawn a blank. I have received possible information about my G G Grandfather (who incidently is a complete mystery), regarding a burial. I would love to hear from anyone who can enlighten me about this.
Sarah.
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I have found the Garlands Hospital which I presume is one and the same as the Institute. From what I can understand it was a Mental hospital. If anyone can add any info I would be very grateful and would love to learn more about this place.
Sarah :o
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http://www.countyasylums.com/mentalasylums/cumberland.htm
Hi Sarah
Try this link. I don't know much about Garlands, apart from it being a mental asylum.
Rosemary
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Thanks Rosemary.
I will give the link a try.
Kind Regards
Sarah :D
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The Garlands has now closed as an asylum but it was the classic victorian pile with more modern outbuildings until about 10 years ago. It looked after the sad from all over north and west Cumberland (Grandad died there!) and was bought by a local builder and converted into flats and a huge estate of houses.
I'm not sure whether there was a cemetary attached - we took grandfather back to west cumbria. There are still medical units there - a mental health clinic and physiology but it is essentially one big housing estate on the side of the M6 to the south of Carlisle.
bob
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Hi Bob
Thank you so much for the information about The Garlands. I don't suppose you know if their are any records which still exist? The problem I have is that my Great Great Grandfather appears to be a complete mystery. I won't go into long rambling, details but I have received information that there is a William Burnett in a rotation grave in Richardson Street cemetery who was buried in 1926. His address at death was given as The Garlands Institute. We have never found a birth (according to the 1881 census he was born in Liverpool). On his marriage certificate (1877), it appears from his age that he was born approximately 1848 and was a widower, but as I have been advised, always take details on marriage certificates with a pinch of salt. I have never found him on any other census and I have never found his death, but all his family ended up in Carlisle.
I hope I haven't bored you with all that....it's sometimes good to chat about brickwalls.
Thanks again for the info.
Kind Regards
Sarah ;D ???
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Hi Sarah,
Like Bob says, Garlands in its original state closed - though it seems to be mushroomong behind the houses - endless blocks for physio, various mental health care etc and miles of mamagement.
Not much use to you, though!
there was a church there - you guessed - housing too, now! But actually with your dates, I think if he were buried in Carlisle it would be the cemeteries.
Do you have an address, ie abode as opposed to where he was removed from on either the deatrh certifiace or the burial record?
Have you got the full entry from the burial register?
Have you managed to check if there's a death announcement in the local papers - not too big a job if you've got the date of death?
Just a few thoughts!
Emms
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PS I also found this while looking for isolation hospitals.
Emms
http://www.countyasylums.com/mentalasylums/cumberland.htm
Modified: Sorry Sarah, just realised it's the same as yours. I found it looking for something else and just put it up.
Emms
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Hi Emms
Thanks for the info you have given me. I have basically no information for William Burnett other than what I mentioned before. He appeared on the 1881 census as a Railway goods guard living near Wakefield with his wife and young son also called William. Young William died in 1887 in Carlisle. Several more children were then born and on the 1891 census the family are living in County Durham but he is missing from the census. By 1901 the family have then moved to Carlisle but still no sign of the elusive William. Annie his wife is never listed as a widow. The last child Lily was born in 1890 and her birth was registered by Annie. Lily died in 1893 and the death was also registered by Annie but William is listed as being the father. On all the birth certificates of the later children William is listed as an Insurance Agent.
Like I say I have never been able to find a birth for him......or a death. The info I was given is a long shot but I'm hoping it will create a lead.
I actually live in Belgium so quick trips to the record offices are out of the question. If you happen to have any other ideas I would love to hear from you.
Kind regards and take care
Sarah ;D :-\
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There is a birth Q1 1845, liverpool and if you have his fathers name and profession from the marriage cert you could specify that on the search to make sure you get the right one. Deaths I cant help with as we are only up to 1924 (well I am) and so you may have to wait a couple of months for 1926. :)
bob
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Hi Bob
William's fathers name......well there lies yet another mystery!!!!!!!! Oh no I can hear you saying.
According to Williams marriage certificate to Annie (in Carlisle), his father is named as,...... wait for it.....WILLIAM BURNETT (deceased). His profession....Second Lieutenant in the 11th Regt of Foot BUT, whilst having other research done by a professional we had them search for records. According to military records there was NO William Burnett in the regiment.
Maybe my William was illegitimate and invented a father for the marriage. Apparently it was a common practice to BEND the truth as no facts are double checked in marriages. There is no saying the burial found is the correct person but if I don't try and find out I will never know.
I really appreciate the info I am being given.
Kind Regards
Sarah :P
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Hi Sarah
There are things lilke electoral registers and the indexed cemetery records in the record office.
I've not been for a wi=hile, but hope to eventually. Feel free to pm me and jog my memory, and I'll dig around.
Meantime, how abiut the various railway ancestors organisations? There are loads of people round here who are interested in the railways and the people who worked on the railways.
I don't know the details but I'm sure some one will.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi Emms
If at any time you are at the records office it would be great if you could have a little dig. I live in Belgium so visits to Carlisle are at maximum once a year....if I'm lucky.
Please let me know if you are going and I will send you any relevant info. I have been down the Railway ancestor path before but maybe I should give it another go, theres always new info being released.
Thanks again.
Kind Regards
Sarah ;D
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If there isn't a dedicated railway forum here there is definitely one on british-genealogy.com
A hint - don't put your addy in plain print like that. You'll be overwhelmed by spam. Do it like "seg one oh two dot etc (where one oh two are the actual numbers)" - this fools the spybots roaming the world.
Or give it under private message to just the person you want to know it and not the rest of us.
bob
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Hi again Sarah!
The shrunk link below, started life as a six line link, so I hope it works! I was racking my brain to see what else we can try. At first I thought WW1 records, Ancestry, then I realised Willliam was too old.
Then I thought National Archives. If old William wasn't in the foot regiment you were given, maybe he's in another one.. I put the name William Burnett in the Nat Archives search engine and then clicked on Forces or similar.
In other foot regiments, in the Chelsea documents there are two possibles: William Burnett born Walton le Dale, and also William Burnett born, unknown.
I don't know if either are worth a try, I had a gggrandfather's Chelsea records. You van order online. Specify which part - all if it's short or correct family data or simislar if it's long and you get an estimate of cost in about 24 hours. then you can order online.
Mine took about a week, and for less than the price of a cetificate, I got a wadge of beautifully presented A3 sheets flat and protected by heavy card. still causes great excitement!
Of course, where was he discharged?? Carlisle Castle! He was born in Wimborne Dorset and enlisted down there. So it would be one one way your guy would have got to Carlisle!
The best of it is, can I find where he was in Carlisle or how he got to be married to an Irish lady in Wigan, no time later? No chamce and I live in Carlisle!!
There are a few slightly later military entries but mostly navy, and carpenter, so they don't really fit the next Wlliam.
Link's below.
You never know!
Best wishes
Emms
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03sx/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/03sx/)
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Hi Bob
Hi Emms
Thanks for the info. Emms, I will print off what you have mentioned and try to get my brain to digest it. There's a lot to take in.
Bob.....thanks for the hint about e-mail addresses, I did it without thinking. I have deleted it so fingers crossed.
Incidently was it either of you who sent me an e-mail about The Garlands Hospital?
Thanks again
Sarah XXXX
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Hi Sarah
i sent you a pm via Rootschat, but I don't think I sent an Email.
Knowing my memory recently, nothing would amaze me.
Good luck anyway, take your time going through things.
Best wishes
Emms
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Sarah,
just looking through your interests, I see burnett in Cumbria. One of the biggest solicitors in carlisle is burnetts and the recent principal was david who most of the rugby fraternity in this area would put in a strong association with the garlands. (Only joking David if you're reading this).
bob
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Hi Sarah
He's a bit elusive as you say, isn't he? But have you looked at any of these?
From Ancestry BMD's then scan of original, if I've read it right, only death for the right time that fits, is:
William Burnett died Carlisle 1926, Jun quarter 10b 463 aged 68.
Original isn't perfect, but I'm pretty sure of it.
Age may may not be perfect any more than on any document you've had, but if it were right it would make him born about 1858, quite a difference.
there is one birth from the same source that fits:
William Burnett, birth registered March quarter, Liverpool 89b 13?
(3 unclear)
Worth a chance on a certificate? Doesn't fit marriage age - miscopy?
I've got a couple of other bits with that age in the census I'll put up later.
Take care.
Emms