RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: maggiefishblue on Sunday 13 July 08 09:51 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I have a copy of a will for my great x5 grandfather which shows his abode at the time the will was drawn up in 1795 as the Woodhouse, Temple Guiting.
Does anyone know what the Woodhouse actually was please? I wondered whether it was a house, farm, an area or something else. It was suggested to me that it might have been a pub - but again I'm not sure. My ancestor's occupation was recorded as a Gentleman - that is what led me towards a house.
I found another will on Genuki drawn up in 1815 again giving the abode as the Woodhouse - a different family from mine though. I attempted to contact the person who put the will onto Genuki but my email was returned because the person no longer has that email address.
Any help will be much appreciated :)
Maggie
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Once upon a time one could freely download wonderful 100 year old maps drawn at 6 inches to the mile from http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ but those days are over. However, if you go to the site and find the Temple Guiting map it's possible to search it if you do not mind how long it takes and have good eyesight :'( Nowadays the maps have to be bought.
I've had a squint at the map and moved around a bit but saw nowhere named Woodhouse but you might be luckier.
You'll find it interesting anyway.
Regards
Chas
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Hi Chas,
Thank you for that - I managed to find Woodhouse by searching for Wooodhouse, Temple Guiting, it then said Woodhouse, Guiting Power, Temple Guiting; I pressed go and there it was ;D
On the map it was Wood House.
I viewed it on about 6 separate maps and it looks to me like a house on a mostly wooded estate - although on the later maps the trees were fewer.
Thank you very much for your help - it's much appreciated :)
Maggie
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Glad to have assisted.
Noticed your GLS interests - not THE Smiths Crisps is it ;D
Chas - a smile a day keeps the blues away :)
P.S.
Bear in mid Wood House might be a number of residences or a small hamlet. C
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not THE Smiths Crisps is it
Of course ;D
I also have the Bywater family marrying into the Bladder family ;)
Bear in mid Wood House might be a number of residences or a small hamlet
I think that might be the case Chas - that would explain other folks giving Woodhouse as their address.
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Hi
If you look at the modern map on http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/frames.htm you will find it still there and now called Manor House
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Thank you for that - so this suggests that the Wood House was in fact a house rather than an area?
Do you know about when the name was changed please? Or where I can find out such information?
Thanks again,
Maggie :)
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Hi
It might well be that the present owners/residents would be predisposed to sharing some of the history of their house with you if you write to them.
Many people are interested to learn more of the history of their old houses and you might have info they don't have.
If there is anyone on here who is local to the area (Sorry but I'm in Lancashire) they may be able to find out the current residents names from the electoral register, so a letter could then be addressed more peronally.
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Thanks for the suggestion - I will begin a new posting in a while to see what comes up.
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I just joined this great site to reply to your posting from earlier this year.
I lived at Woodhouse until 2005 so I have quite a reasonable knowledge about it, I hope the information that follows will suffice for now, but don't hesitate to ask me more if you wish.
The Woodhouse is in Temple Guiting, but only by a few yards as the boundary crosses in front of the house and can be seen as a slight ditch which runs there still. However, the address is Guiting Power. These where formally Upper and Nether Guiting. Guiting Power means a rushing brook as the beginnings of the Thames start there (eventually that is as the brook becomes the Windrush, then the Isis before finally the Thames).
The house stands on the 13th century foundations of a farm, but became a large house in the 16th Century. It is said that for a time it was the hunting lodge for the monks at Hailes Abbey. The track that they took riding their horses there and back is quite easy to map out.
Eventually, when it was the trend, a grand Georgian front was added, at which point it was referred to as the Manor House. However this is confusing as there is already a Manor House in Guiting Power. In the mid 70's a fascinating person called Raymond Cochrane, who came from a wealthy Scottish family, decided to re-build Guting Power as it was quite decrepit. He bought most of the houses in the village and re-built them, fixing their rents at a pepper-corn level in order to preserve the native population. Woodhouse at the time was in a very poor state. It had been owned by villagers whose ancestors still live in or near to the village, but it was very much the old farmhouse behind the façade. There was purportedly still corn stored in one of the rooms on an upper floor, which resulted in a very healthy rat population.
Raymond had the house re-built virtually in its entirety, retaining only the Georgian frontage, but building an entirely grand, steel-framed interior. The drawing room alone was 42' x 16' and so too the library above it, which was full of bookshelves to every wall. (This was my studio for the time we were resident as I am a portrait painter.) He loved his village and yet was mistrusted by some of the villagers. Once his wife died he became something of a recluse, and handed over the running of the estate to a charitable trust. Unfortunately the Trust rode rough-shod over most of Mr Cochranes beliefs and requests and he appeared to die quite unhappy in the late 1990's. He kept a village newspaper going for years which is very interesting to read, but you can sense his frustration as the villagers appeared to believe he was only content on filling his pockets from them instead of seeing him as the philanthropist he was. He battled for some time to have the boundary moved behind the house in order that it might reside officially in his beloved Guiting Power, but to no avail. He again referred to it as The Manor House.
The farm-manager, Nick Bumford, who still runs the estate had many fond memories of him. He would tell me of the days he spent with him discussing the organic farming there and the abundance of rare birds and plants. It was Raymond's wish that the house become a foundation to promote wildlife conservation after his death. However, it was leased out privately which is how I came to enjoy it.
The cellars in the house still remain, in the original house they were the kitchens. The house in those days was full of small rooms and passage ways, and must have been quiet fascinating. On the roof is a cupola which contains the doorway from a spiral staircase on the top floor to access the roof. The views from there are spectacular, and it was quite something to witness the sheep in the parkland in front being herded up by the dogs. The park often had deer in it too as they came from the woods at the back.
The house is called Woodhouse because to the rear are 365 acres of the most wonderful woodland, criss-crossed by many paths. We spent so much time walking there, and we did get to know our way around. Despite its size, it was very rare to meet anybody else walking too.
In the lower garden is a well. We did measure it and it turned out to be 117' deep! On really cold days (like today) it would actually steam like a great funnel as the temperature difference was so much from bottom to top.
In the church is a plaque that remembers an 8 year old girl called Mary Elizabeth Bennett. We often heard 'Lizzie' on the top floor, especially when there were children in the house. She would also get toys out after they had been put away too. There is another plaque that states there is a bequest to the village of bread to the poor from Woodhouse.
We had many happy days there despite unfortunately suffering from great personal illnesses, and I always wanted to learn more. The greatest experience though was looking out of those great doors at the front over the Cotswold vista, sometimes the combine harvesters hauling over the distant hills, but most often the sheep with their lambs playing tag, and leaping onto the huge roots of the weeping ash trees that stood in the middle of the park.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes
Melissa
P.s., I do have more photographs
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Wow Melissa! What a beautiful house.
Welcome to Rootschat and thanks for sharing!
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thank you so much Melissa - I am overwhelmed by the information you have given :)
I did eventually find it on a map - but all this information really brings it to life.
My great x 5 grandfather gave The Woodhouse as his address in his will in 1795 - when I looked at the PRs for Temple Guiting at my local LDS centre, it appeared as the address for several different entries over a long period (most of these entries were not of my ancestors ;))
I will spend some time reading through it again now.
Thank you again.
Maggie
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Hi all,
I was amazed to find all this about The Woodhouse, having only just come across it in my searching. My interest is with Richard Deane b1610, who was supposedly christened at The Woodhouse, is it likely that his family owned it then? How would I find this out? Later he lived at Pinnock, Glos.
Any views/ideas most welcome
Anne
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Hi Maggie,
I have a copy of my gt.gt.gt.gt. grandfather's will. He was William Arkell of The Woodhouse in Temple Guiting. He died in 1815. In his will he bequethed to his brother in law John Walker of Guiting Power the Woodhouse farm and land.To his wife Hannah he left £300 and the furniture.
I have been to Guiting in Gloucestershire and saw "The Woodhouse" from the road, I now wish I had knocked on the door and asked the owners if I could look around.
I have just come across your queries about the woodhouse. I am the descendent of William and Hannah's daughter Honor Arkell who married William Peter Gue.
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Hello Charlie and Anne
Welcome!
I hope Maggie will be back soon to reply to your posts, but meanwhile enjoy the site
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Charlie and Anne,
I know very little about the Woodhouse other than was posted by Melissa - perhaps the Records Office in Gloucester might have copies of the deeds etc. that would establish ownership over a period of time? I haven't been able to visit the RO as yet but hope to in the futuire at some point - it's on my list :)
Charlie,
I have copies of the wills of my great x4 grandparents, both of whom gave their address as The Woodhouse - but there is no mention in either will of ownership ....
The first will, that of Richard Staite, was drawn up in 1795 and proved in 1798. In it Richard bequeaths "all the Rest Residue and Remainder of my monies Securities for Money Goods Chattels Estate and Efects whatsoever and whosoever ...." to be divided between his wife Mary and nephew Richard Staite (who was living with him at the time) but it does not say specifically the house. Richard and Mary had only one surviving daughter who married into the Dowdeswell family and Richard bequeaths money in trust to his grandson.
The second will is that of Mary Staite (Richard's widow) drawn up in 1798 and proved in 1807. When the will was drawn up Mary was still at the Woodhouse and in it she bequeathed "remainder of my Monies Securities for Money Goods Chattels Personal Estate and Effects whatsoever and whosoever ...." to the same nephew Richard Staite who was living with her at the Woodhouse. Again, no specific mention of the property.
I have not, so far, been able to trace the nephew Richard Staite with any certainty because it is quite a common name in those parts, so don't know how long he would have remained there. However, it would look as if he didn't remain for long if your ancestor was there in 1815, unless of course your ancestor owned the Woodhouse and mine leased it from him .....
It's all very interesting isn't it? Every now and again another small piece fits into the puzzle :)
Maggie
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What a fascinating message thread! Particularly as I have recently made some connections g1, g2 and g3 grandparents in Guiting.
Emily Ellen Carter born 1862 Guiting married James Brown in Cheltenham in 1882.
Her father was George Carter born 1838 Guiting Power. He married Prudence Davis in 1861. Prudence was born in Maugersbury, Stow-on-the-Wold in 1842. I have George and Prudence in various censuses but can't find them in 1881 or separately in 1841. Any hints?
George's father was Joseph born 1793 in Guiting and married an Elizabeth c1822.
Now for the real point of this post, how do you pronounce GUITING?
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
The original spelling was Guyting - so I think that must be how it should be pronounced (although I tend to say Gitting ::))
Maggie
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Thanks Maggie. And I have just found Maria Davis, a sweeps widow and pauper with 5 children, one of whom is Prudence!
Regards
Alan
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Hi again,
Trying to make sense of this copy of the will I have of William Arkell died 1815. It begins "This is the last will & testament of William Arkell of the Woodhouse in the parish of Temple Guiting in the county of Gloucester, Gentleman. First I give and bequeath unto my dear wife Hannah the sum of three hundred pounds to be paid to her as soon as convenient.......And I also give & bequeath to my said wife Hannah all such parts of my household goods and furniture and other effects which were given to her by her late parents who resided at Grimley in the county of Worcester............
And I give devise and bequeath to my brother in law John Walker of Guiting Power in the County of Gloucester aforesaid Gentleman, all and singular the Messuage or Tenement together with all and every the lands ...........(word here I cannot make out) and premises there to belonging called the Woodhouse farm situated in the parish of Temple Guiting aforesaid and all and singular other my freehold copyhold and leasehold messuages lands tenements and real estate whatsoever and of what tenure or quality so ever which I now am or at the time of my death shall be seized or possessed respectively of or in any manner intitled to or interested .....either in possession conversion remainder or expectancy and at law of in equity and also all my ready monies, securities for money and all my farming stock, implements in husbandry chattels and personal estate and effects whatsover........... it goes on for several pages like this. I presumed they owned the Woodhouse because of what it says in this will but I am not so sure now after reading other peoples comments here. Interesting isn't it! Maureen (charlieblue)
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Hi Maureen,
It certainly is interesting :)
From what you have here I would also think that William Arkell owned the Woodhouse. When was the will drawn up? I'm thinking the date you have was when it was proven. If it was drawn up before my ancestor died in 1807 then I should think that my ancestors rented the place from him .... My ancestor, Richard Staite, was also a 'gentleman' - but as you see from what I copied, he didn't appear to own any property - just land and securities.
Intriguing indeed :)
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
Sorry I am a little late in replying to your question about when my ancestor's will was written etc. It was written 9th March, 1815 and proved on 5th October, 1815. William Arkell died in July 1815. So it looks like your ancestor lived there before mine.
Regards, Maureen (charlieblue)
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Like others I am new to this thread but found it as a result of seeking information about Woodhouse in Temple Guiting/Guiting Power. I am a doctoral student at Oxford working on a group of about eighty smaller Georgian houses and their families in Gloucestershire between 1680 and 1760. Woodhouse is one of those houses on my list, which I identified from the National Monuments Record website (www.images ofengland.co.uk). The number is 128768. It is also covered briefly (from an architectural perspective) in the Buildings of England series, Gloucestershire 1: The Cotswolds, p 395. I have not yet done a great deal of research on this house, but was doing field work recently to have a preliminary look at it. I did not know exactly where the house was located and could not find it so the discussion of mapping was very helpful.
In any event, I am particularly interested to know more about the house's builders/owners earlier in the C18, and was fascinated with the work of some of those who have posted messages. Has anyone traced their ancestry, as residents of Woodhouse, earlier than the 1790s? If anyone has further information about the history of the house or the families who built or occupied it earlier in the C18 I would be very grateful.
Also, it might interest some that a similar structure that is part of my study, Barton House, located a short distance away at Barton seems to be having expansive building conservation work done (see below). I wonder if there might have been any connection between the two. If anyone knows anything about that it would interest me as well.
Finally, would it be worth writing to the Guiting Manor Amenity Trust for further information?
Very many thanks,
Stephen
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Hi Stephen
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
I will leave those concerned to answer your specific queries but I suggest that you make a second posting on the Gloucestershire board requesting information, as this post might be overlooked as it occurs in the middle of a thread.
You might get more custom that way!
Good luck with your project - keep us informed.
(Note that we usually discourage duplicate posting but there doesn't seem to be any danger of duplication of effort in responding in this instance!)
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi all,
In response to maggiefishblue's postings, I would like to say that I am a decendant of the 'Staites' of Guiting Power. My Grt Grt Grt Grandfather Thomas Yeates married Sarah Staite in the 1850's and Richard Staite was Sarah's Father. I just wondered if my Richard was any link to yours.
Many Thanks,
Rainmaker
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Hello all,
Came across your discussion re The Woodhouse of Guiting Power, a branch of my family were in the ownership of the house in the 17th Century - the Deane family. One of their descendents was Richard Deane the regicide. Further details can be obtained via tribal pages.
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Regarding The Woodhouse or The Wood House of Castlett near Lower Guiting. I have attached a transcription of the will of David Hughes (1700-1753) who mentions owning the Manor of Lower Guiting in his will, which I hope will provide some clues for the people who have already entered very interesting information. I am related to Thomas Vernon whose wife Eleanor was the sister of David Hughes. I can be contacted on
Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the PM system to exchange such information
if anyone wants more information.
Please see attachment.
Joan Hunt
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Hello - I have just stumbled across and joined this site while looking up "The Woodhouse" from a picture I have recently discovered in an old! trunk. The back of the picture reads: "The ancestral mansion where your Great great grandmother lived Alex (my grandfather-Alexander). Lower Guiting Gloucestershire. We stayed near at a griends cotage and Jess had me chasing round the church & the bone year, looking for the twigs on the family tree. We went over the house, there is some glorious oak panelling in it." It is a small picture but definitely the same place as what appears to be called "The Manor" today. Naturally there is no date on the picture nor does it say who wrote the message. Here is what I know:
Alexander William Wilkie b1893
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OOps, sorry I hit a button I shouldn't have, new to the game....this message is the completion of my previous one.
So, Paternal Side: Alexander William Wilkie b. 1893 (Alex in note)
William Frederick b. 1867 c. 1908 m. Jessie Allan Wylie
Frederick William b. 1843-1845 m. Ellen Lusty
Edmund b. 1826 m. Isabella
great-greats-unknown
Maternal Side: Jessie Allan Wylie (Alex's mother) b.1864
Kezia East b.1834 m. Alexander Wylie b.1835:Scotland)
Susannah b. 1796 m. John East b.1797
great-greats-unknown
Do any of these names ring true and correlate to any of the documents I have read about in other posts about "The Woodhouse." I would love to hear from you if they do or if anyone has any other leads. Is there a site where the ownership/occupants of a heritage home, besides a census, can be looked up? I apologize for the typos in the previous post, my father would be appalled! My keyboard has sticky keys and due to the premature post, I didn't get a chance to proof read. Thank you in advance, Judy (in Canada)
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Re: Kezie EAST born 1834 (age 24 on marriage certificate)
Marriage Certificate on Ancestry - married Saint Stephen's Birmingham on the 25 January 1859 - her father was John EAST, Gamekeeper (witnesses: John & Sarah HORLICK)
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Kezia EAST baptised at Guitings Power - 6 July 1834, parents: John (Gamekeeper) and Susan
1841 census, Glos, Power Guytings
EAST
John 44, Charles 21, Edmundo, 17, John 13, Job 11, James 9, Susannah 45, and Keziah 6
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Probate
George EAST of Woodhouse Farm, Temple Guitings, Winchcombe Gloucestershire - died 21 February 1924.
Probate London 7 May to Allan Alcey EAST and John ARKELL, Farmers
'is there a site where the ownership/occupants of a heritage home, besides a census, can be looked up?'
Lloyd George Survey of Land Values Gloucestershire
https://www.glos1909survey.org.uk
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GA/D2428/2/156 - Hereditament Number 157
Place: Temple Guitings
Income tax parish: Guitings Power
Date when served: 31/07/1913
Occupied by:
EAST, G (Mr M)
People holding property: Corpus Christie College, The Bursar, Corpus Christie College, Oxford (OWNER)
Type of Property: Business
PROPERTY:
Description: house buildings and land
Address: Woodhouse Farm
Size: 79 acres 1 rood 38 perches
Map reference: 21.13 H (Map link is in the heading on the above website)
Gross Value: £790
Site Value: £350
Difference: £620
Agricultural Value: £840
Comments: 2 hereditaments
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On the 1911 census for Temple Guitings, Wood House Farm, Winchcombe
George EAST aged 61 married Farmer - (plus his family)
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1861 Census,
Wood House
John EAST - aged 65 - Ag Lab. born Glos. Guitings Power
Susannah - 66 - - born Glos, (says... Glos. Paddington)
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Wow!! Amazing information Capetown. Thank you so very much. This is definitely what I was looking for and the springboard I needed. I so appreciate the time you took to find this for me. Now if I can just find the other side....
Cheers, Judy
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?
Assume you are trying to follow Kezia (nee EAST) husband's line (Alexander WYLIE c1834 born Scotland) both he and his father (Alexander) were Cabinet Makers according to the marriage certificate.
I'll have to go through this census return - as it seems most likely - but as it's Scottish - can't see the whole page
Perth, 1851 census
WYLIE
Alexander - 61 - cabenet maker master, employing two men - born Mensdio, Perthshire
Maria - 37 - born, Kenmore, Invernesshire
Alexander - 17 - cabinet maket - born, Perth, Perthshire - as was his siblings. ***
Maria - 10
Andrew - 8
Mary A - 6
Isabella - 3
Dainel - 1
Can see on Ancestry Alexander aged 17 - baptism, no date, but says, Alexander WYLIE and Maria MACKAY
Ancestry
Alexander WYLIE married Maria MACKAY - 30 May 1840, Perth, Scotland
various children's baptisms also on Ancestry and Electoral Registers
for example
1868 Electoral Register,
Alexander WYLIE, 224 High Street, Perth, Cabinet Maker & Shop
1860 : 190 & 192 High Street, Perth
Alexander WYLIE, Cabinet Maker, occupant of Workshop and Wareroom
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1861 Scottish Census
190 High Street
WYLIE
Alex 71 - cabinet maker, born, Scone, Perth
Maria - 48 - born Kingussie, Inverness
John - 40 - Piano Forte Lunn
Maria - 20
Andw - 18 - Teacher Eng Grammer
Isabella - 13
Daniel - 11
Jemima - 9
David - 6
Grace - 2
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1891 Census, Perth
Maria WYLIE - 77
Jemima WYLIE - 37
Grace M WYLIE - 31
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Capetown, I am interested in following the Alexander Wylie line,thank you again for all the information. I was able to find out that John and Susanna lived in the Woodhouse! I am also interested in following the William Frederick Wilkie, who married Jessie Allan Wylie, AW's daughter. I believe they are also from the Gloucester area. I believe his father was Frederick William married to Ellen Lusty but that is as far as I go.
Thanks again, Judy
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Marriage on Ancestry at the Parish of St John Somerset Eastern
10 May 1863
Frederick WILKIE - 20 years, Bachelor, Fitter residence St John's Bridgewater
father: Edmund WILKIE, Engineer
Ellen LUSTY, 18 years, Spinster, residence St John's Bridgewater
father: Robert LUSTY, Engineer
witnesses: Henry MYERS and Emma GATTER
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1861 Census
Chubbs Cottage
Bridgewater
Somerset
Edmund WILKIE - 35, Engine Fitter, born Taunton
Isabella - 36 - born Taunton
Frederick - 17,Engine Fitter born Taunton,
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Not sure what's going on here, as I couldn't find Edmund and Isabella on the 1851 census with Frederick
??
1851 Census
Taunton
Maria REX - aged 56 Widow, Handloom Weaver, born Taunton
George REX - aged 28 son, Postman
Elizabeth WILKEY - aged 26 - Engineer's Wife, born Taunton
Frederick WILKEY - aged 7 - Grandson
1841 Census, Somerset St James
Maria REX - 40 Silk Weaver
George REX - 15
Isabella REX 15
Edwin REX 10
Maria & George REX on 1861 census in Taunton
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As Edmund was an Engineer, was probably working for the Great Western Railways - as like my g grandfather, was all over the place.
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Marriage on Ancestry 15 July 1846 at Taunton St Mary
Edmund WILKEY married Isabella REX
Edmund WILKEY, full age, Bachelor, occupation: Whitesmith, residence: Taunton St James
father: Edward NORTHAM, Plasterer ***
Isabella REX, Spinster, residence: Taunton St James, father William REX, Silk Weaver
Edmund WILKEY - signs with an X
Isbella - signs with an X
Edwin REX - (signs his name)
Maria REX - (signs with an X)
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***
Baptism at Taunton St James :
Edmund WILKEY (illegit) - 26 May 1822 - residence: Poor House
mother: Hannah WILKEY
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William REX married Maria PHIPPEN 3 August 1817 at Taunton St Mary
Both of this Parish: Witnesses: Charles GRAY and J LONG
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? Burial at St Mary's Magdalen, Taunton - 9 June 1847
Edward NORTHAM - aged 67 - residence: Church Square
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? There is a marriage at Taunton St James
19 December 1825
John COLLEY and Hannah WILKEY
witnesses: Robert & Martha COLLEY
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Thank you Capetown, I will report back....J
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Not sure if you know about this website
General Register Office
http://www.gro.gov.uk
If you register - you can search freely for births/deaths 1837-1917 and this will very often - give you the mother's maiden name.