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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: wyseass on Saturday 19 July 08 01:11 BST (UK)

Title: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Saturday 19 July 08 01:11 BST (UK): Who were her children?
Who was their Father?
Why did she leave the estate and all to Count Chabot if she had children?
It would be nice to know who her children were, because one of them is meant to have been my great-great-great grandfather Rev. Robert Mathews, head master of the Diocesan School, Ballymena, Co. Antrim. But I can't find his parents any where?
Hopefully somebody can help me solve this.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: heywood on Saturday 19 July 08 08:49 BST (UK): Good morning wyseass,

Welcome to rootschat. It's best in any research to give dates - to help people find any clues.
However, I have found this which seems to indicate that Lady Elizabeth
Mathew was unmarried when she died and left her estate to Viscount de Chabot.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BGV_qyBZ9LoC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=irish+peerage+tipperary+mathews+family&source=web&ots=G-o94QZkdI&sig=wFfU4ZqVqXY3C89URNsddvoNLe0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

best wishes
heywood
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Saturday 19 July 08 10:15 BST (UK): Hi wyseass

Glad you have joined rootschat, I was hoping to get in contact again. We might be able to knock down some brickwalls between us.

My father always believed he was descended from Lady Elizabeth Mathew. He had three names,
Captain William FitzWilliam Mathew bn abt 1796
Robert Mathew
Thomas Mathew
three sons whos father was said to have been The Prince Regent/ George 1V.

I downloaded Lady Elizabeths will and she mentions a son Capt William FitzWiliam Mathew. He was in the Bengal Army. Also found him on Ancestry censuses 1841-1861.

Back later as I have to go out for a while

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: heywood on Saturday 19 July 08 10:20 BST (UK): Hello Christine,
this is interesting- I was intrigued by this even though nothing to do with it unlike yourself.
I was going to suggest to wyeseass that he/she gets a copy of the will. I saw on another site that someone suggests that Lady ELizabeth and The Viscount were cousins.
Also on the site I gave, it mentions Theobald Mathew who should have been the heir, I think. He was a cousin and a famous priest- his side of the family were Catholic.
I hope you get somewhere with this.

best wishes
heywood

PS
I'm not sure about this but if the children were illegitimate- would they be prevented from inheriting the estate?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Saturday 19 July 08 17:41 BST (UK): The information that I have verified is:
My Father was Cecil Peel Beresford Mathews 1931-1991
Grandfather Alfred Henry (born in Antrim) 1897-1951
Greatgrandfather Marcus Beresford 1862-1947
Great-great-grandfather Frederick Albert 1827-?
Great-great-great-grandfather Rev. Robert Mathews 1798-?
It is documented in Father Theobald's biography that Lady Ellisha (who paid for his education) had promised to cover all his debts on her death - however this didn't happen had he had a terrible time trying to pay them off, as he head spent freely on the promise of his inheritance.
"This old lady, who by all accounts was at least as fit for a lunatic asylum as her brother George" (London Times 06/09/1843, left everything to Viscount de Chabot against the express wishes of her brother Francis James 2nd Earl of Llandaff (died 1833), who had left the estate to her. She died 14/12/1841 in her house in Molesworth Street, Dublin.
The family over the years changed their religion to suit the times and to hold onto their title and estates, as was the way in Ireland in those days.

It is good to have found you again Christine.

I just can't seem to fine a link between Robert and Elisha (Elizabeth).

I hope somebody can help.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Tuesday 22 July 08 10:48 BST (UK): wyseass

Here is my verified family names incase you come across any information on them.

My father was Edward Matthews 1918-1991
Grandfather George Humphreys Matthews 1882-abt 1962
Gt Grandfather William Henry Dundas Matthews bn abt early 1840s
Gt Gt Grandfather John Matthews
John Matthews was living in Garville Avenue in 1864 when my Gt Grandfather William married in Donnybrook Church.

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 22 July 08 11:00 BST (UK): Quote from: ChrisPage on Tuesday 22 July 08 10:48 BST (UK)
Gt Grandfather William Henry Dundas Matthews bn abt early 1840s
Gt Gt Grandfather John Matthews
John Matthews was living in Garville Avenue in 1864 when my Gt Grandfather William married in Donnybrook Church.

If the above information is taken from William's marriage certificate: Irish marriage certificates list the residence of bride and groom at the time of the marriage which may not be the place where the parents were living.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Tuesday 22 July 08 11:03 BST (UK): Hi Heywood
Yes Lady Elizabeth and the Viscount Chabot were 1st cousins. There mothers were sisters.
Lady Elizabeths mother was Ellisha/Ellis Smyth but i do not know her sisters first name.
Lots of conflicting info found on Theobald Mathews so not sure if he was a cousin or not.

Wyseass
I found an article about George 1Vs daughter having a birthday party and Lady Elizabeths name was on the list.

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 22 July 08 11:15 BST (UK): I love these fascinating stories and thank you for posting the bits - just to satisfy our curiosity :o

When I was searching around I did read that George IV possibly/had several illiegitimate children so you never know.
I did find it odd that her will only mentioned the one child because if, as I presumed, no one could inherit die to illegitimacy then why mention that one.

I have also read that there seem to be several well documented pieces about Theobold, the priest. I think I also read that Theobold/Toby was a family name.

Somehow I always imagined that families like these would be well organised in family listings- obviously not.

good luck with it all
heywood
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Tuesday 22 July 08 11:33 BST (UK): Aghadowey

I found the information when i had a free trial for the Gale Digital collections.

The date was 30th August 1864. Couple getting married were definitely my Gt Grandparents.
It said John Matthews Esq of Garville Avenue.
My Grandfather George's birth certificate gives 30 Garville Avenue as his place of birth and Williams dwelling place.

Would the marriage certificate give me much more information.
Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 22 July 08 11:36 BST (UK): Marriage certificate will list name of bride and groom, marital status, whether or not of full age, their occupations, residences at time of marriage, names and occupations of their fathers, names of two witnesses, name of informant, place and date of marriage.
Will not list birthdate, birthplaces, mothers' names, addresses of informants.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Tuesday 22 July 08 18:55 BST (UK): I have access to The Times archive, and have found a few articles on Theobald and Lady Elizabeth. However none as wonderful as her existence at the Royal Court, which is what I was looking for, so well done and thanks for that.
I have a copy of Fr. Theobald's biography somewhere (can't find it right now). It says that Theobald spent a lot of money on the promise that Elizabeth would honour his debts on her death and then he wasn't mentioned at all in her will leaving him in an awful state and in serious debt.
In a letter to the editor of the Times (17/12/1856) from Chabot, he states that he is a first cousin of Elizabeth and is unaware of any relationship between Elizabeth and Theobald!
Theobald also had a brother called Charles.

Wyseass
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Sunday 28 September 08 10:09 BST (UK): Hi wyseass

The Mathew title became extinct on the death of Francis (second earl) in 1833 and his brothers George and Montaqu - all died childless. Their sisters lived on in Tipperary and one of them inherited the estate, which is now a stud. My cousin Elisha and I are decent but there is no title - not now.

The Chabot/Mathews line is decent from Arnold Nesbit (soi-distant Earls of Llandaff) but Arnold is not decent from Elisha. You will find the link in http://everything2.com/node/1938560. Good luck.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 29 September 08 10:48 BST (UK): The Mathew title became extinct on the death of Francis (second earl) in 1833 and his brothers George and Montaqu - all died childless. Their sisters lived on in Tipperary and one of them inherited the estate, which is now a stud.
According to my records The 2nd Earl (Franicis) had an illegitimate son called Thomas James by his girlfriend Anne West in London. He was married to Gertrude LaTouche, from a famous Dublin banking family.
Who were the sisters? The only sister (daughter) at this time was Lady Elizabeth (Ellisha) and she was the one who inherited the estate, and then ignored her Irish relations by leaving it to Chabot.
Therre were a few estates owned in the Thurles area by different branches of the family. Although the stud farm in Golden is a part of the original estate, I think it went down a different branch of the family stemming from the illegitimate son (James) of the first Earl. He would have been Father Theobald's father, so Theobald and his siblings were then legitimate.
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~butchmatt/Mathewhtml/notes.html)
Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: nerys-wales on Tuesday 16 December 08 23:15 GMT (UK): Mathew (not Mathews), Thomastown Castle, Tipperary - is extinct. Wades own the land and it's a stud farm. Also, I think you may be confusing Ellisha with Elisabeth. Nerys
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: nerys-wales on Tuesday 16 December 08 23:29 GMT (UK): Further info on Mathew of Thomastown. Ellisha mentioned by rymer is Ellisha Spencer, possible named for Ellisha Mathew who married into the Wade family now owners of Thomastown castle stud. Elisabeth and Ellisha were cousins.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Tuesday 16 December 08 23:31 GMT (UK): You are right she was also known as Elizabeth. The house (Thomastown Castle)is a wonderful ivy clad ruin. I have some photos of it from last year.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Wednesday 31 December 08 11:19 GMT (UK): Quote from: wyseass on Saturday 19 July 08 17:41 BST (UK)
The information that I have verified is:
My Father was Cecil Peel Beresford Mathews 1931-1991
Grandfather Alfred Henry (born in Antrim) 1897-1951
Greatgrandfather Marcus Beresford 1862-1947
Great-great-grandfather Frederick Albert 1827-?
Great-great-great-grandfather Rev. Robert Mathews 1798-?

I just can't seem to fine a link between Robert and Elisha (Elizabeth).

This is my first post so please be kind :)

It looks as you and I are very much related, since your Grandfather (Alfred Henry Mathews a.k.a. 'Alty') and my Grandfather (Reginald Russell Mathews 1902-1966) were brothers !

I am stuck at the same position as you with good old Ellisha but I do have a photograph of an oil painting of the Rev. Robert (known as 'Blinking Bobby') and his wife. As a child I did actually see these 2 portraits in the flesh but they were 'disposed of' after Reginald died - shock horror !

I also have information about Marcus Beresford Mathews (1862-1947) who was a Banker in Dublin, because a living relative of mine (in his 90's) used to live with him for a while in Dublin.

I have in my possession a silver salver given to Marcus when he left the bank - with a family crest and inscription on it.

If yo are interested in more details please make contact.

Happy New Year to all.

Cheers -- Chris
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Wednesday 31 December 08 12:40 GMT (UK): ;D How nice to hear from you. I have found you on the family tree my late uncle gave to me, and am delighted that you got in touch.
The whole crux of it is to discover finally who were Rev. Robert Mathews parents, as this has never been done with proof.
I am also now trying to find a connection between the Mathews and Beresford's, as the use of the name 'Marcus Beresford' by Frederick Mathews for his son has intrigued me. There must be a reason to use another family's names. I just need to find it, so any info. on that would be much appreciated.
Marcus Mathews (Banker in Northern Bank), was joint manager of Henry Street, Dublin. Promoted to manager of Grafton St in 1904 and then further promoted to Secretary of the Northern Bank in 1927, when he moved back to Belfast. This info. is got from "Irish Times" archives, which I can access at the library.
I can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear from you, and I'm sure ChrisPage will agree.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Wednesday 31 December 08 14:50 GMT (UK): Welcome to rootschat chris. Good to see someone else researching Lady Ellisha.
I am also trying to find a family connection to one of her sons Thomas or Robert or William fitzwilliam.
I have got back as far as my GG Grandfather John Matthews bn abt 1820s, and have found my connections all in Dublin so far.
Look forward to seeing any information you can post on here as I am still not sure which of Ellishas sons I may be related to.
Would be interested in seeing the photo of the Rev Robert if possible.

wyseass lucky you finding a new relation.

Happy new year.

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Thursday 01 January 09 13:10 GMT (UK): If anyone is interested I have a summarised copy of 'Genealogy Of The Earls Of Landaff' specific to Ellisha's lineage (and beyond). I have the original huge old faded negative the document was produced from, I think this is as a result of some research a distant relative commissioned while in Dublin. It says on it

Printed by J. T. DROUGHT, 6 Bachelor's Walk, Dublin
Unfortunately it has no further details about Ellisha's sons though :(

Quote from: wyseass on Wednesday 31 December 08 12:40 GMT (UK)
I have found you on the family tree my late uncle gave to me, and am delighted that you got in touch.

Can I ask if the uncle who's family tree you are working from was 'Marcus Girling' ?

If so then we are working from a tree originating from the same source.

Quote from: ChrisPage on Wednesday 31 December 08 14:50 GMT (UK)
Would be interested in seeing the photo of the Rev Robert if possible.

I will dig out the photos and scan them. Do you want me to post them to this discussion ?

Cheers -- Chris
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Thursday 01 January 09 14:43 GMT (UK): The family tree I have was given to me by my Aunt Betty and was done by Marcus Girling. My Uncle Ronnie did some work on it and a cousin (his granddaughter) has all his papers, one of which is Rev. Robert Mathews ordination papers, I have asked her for a copy, but haven't received one yet and will ask again.
Seemingly there is a portrait of Rev. Mathews at Ballymena Academy, and Uncle Ronnie saw it there. It would be lovely to see a photo of him and his wife.
Robert Mathews must have come from somewhere?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Thursday 01 January 09 21:01 GMT (UK): Quote
If anyone is interested I have a summarised copy of 'Genealogy Of The Earls Of Landaff' specific to Ellisha's lineage (and beyond). I have the original huge old faded negative the document was produced from, I think this is as a result of some research a distant relative commissioned while in Dublin.

I am most interested in this. It might be exactly what my father had a copy of. Unfortunatley it was lost along with a family tree when my brothers house had a bad fire. I was told my great grandfather had it done in Dublin.

Quote
I will dig out the photos and scan them. Do you want me to post them to this discussion ?

If you could post photos that would be great, if not would you be able to email them.

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Saturday 03 January 09 18:39 GMT (UK): I have scanned the copy of GENEALOGY OF THE EARLS OF LANDAFF

Attached is part 1 of 3
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Saturday 03 January 09 18:40 GMT (UK): I have scanned the copy of GENEALOGY OF THE EARLS OF LANDAFF

Attached is part 2 of 3
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Saturday 03 January 09 18:46 GMT (UK): I have scanned the copy of GENEALOGY OF THE EARLS OF LANDAFF

Attached is part 3 of 3
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Saturday 03 January 09 20:29 GMT (UK): I am probably going over areas you lot have already been through, but I dug this photo out while at my Mum's yesterday from some of my late Father's notes about Frederick Albert Mathews (1827 ?) The back of the photo sas it was originally produced by a photographic studio in Ballymena.

It is something to do with the 18th degree of Free Masonry (Knight of Eagle and Pelican) so not sure if this is another area of investigation.

Also, I saw some posts made by you two in response to to another forum from Valerie Mathew about a 'James Mathew'

http://www.jenforum.com/matthews/messages/5434.html

and have now paid my £3.50 and downloaded Lady Ellisha's (Elizabeth's) will. It is hard going but just about readable. Sad I know but I found it quite exciting to find something concrete about Lady Ellisha :) Has anyone managed to produce a full transcript ?

And finally there are three protraits of Lady Elisha's mother (Elisha nee Smyth/Smith - wife of Francis Mathew)

http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.asp?LinkID=mp11438

Enjoy.

Cheers -- Chris
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Saturday 03 January 09 23:01 GMT (UK): Just thought you would both like to know (if you don't already) the Irish Census 1911 now covers Antrim, Down, Dublin and Kerry.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Sunday 04 January 09 23:35 GMT (UK): Chris, thanks for posting the scans. I have saved them for printing.
It is the same as my father owned, my aunt will be pleased to know I have a copy now as she was sad to hear it had been burned in the fire.

I tried to read the will, it was hard to do. Captain William Fitzwilliam Mathew is mentioned. Captain in the Bengal army.
He is on the England census in London married to Jane Emily Kennedy and had a daughter Gertrude Emily born abt 1843 London. Died 1962.
Could not see a mention of Thomas or Robert.

Thank for link to portaits of Ellisha Smyth.

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 05 January 09 00:51 GMT (UK): Has anybody seen this before: http://everything2.com/e2node/Earl%2520of%2520Landaff. I emailed a bit to cmathews, but thought it better to send the link.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Monday 05 January 09 21:33 GMT (UK): Quote from: wyseass on Monday 05 January 09 00:51 GMT (UK)
Has anybody seen this before: http://everything2.com/e2node/Earl%2520of%2520Landaff. I emailed a bit to cmathews, but thought it better to send the link.
Yes, thanks for the email - spookily enough I came across this site while Googling for information over the weekend just before you emailed the details.

I have also just downloaded the 1911 Census details for Marcus Beresford Mathews of 115, Grafton Street, Dublin - fascinating stuff, mistakes and all in his own handwriting as well.

I have a photograph which I have used as a placeholder for a web site I am trying to put together when I get some time. It is of his whole family all sat together looking very formal, taken at a photographic studio.
http://mathews.family.name
I also have details of who is who which I will eventually put on the site as well.

If I am boring you all with these photo's them please let me know and I will stop, but I find it fascinating.

I am trying to get time to put this site together where I will keep a repository of these images and other family tree details. Access will eventually be by invite only so once done I will make contact with access details etc. so if anyone has a GEDCOM file they could let me have to extend the details I am using then that would be great, but I fully understand if you do not want to provide these details.

Cheers -- Chris
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 05 January 09 23:36 GMT (UK): That photo is amazing thank you so much ;D
While looking at the photo from you I was also able to look at 2 photos I have. One of my Grandfather (alfred) at his wedding and one of Alfred, wife and family circa 1938. I had great fun identifying everyone using the family tree, it was quite brilliant and fascinating.
I always thought my Aunt Jill looked like her Mother but the family resemblance to Annie is quite wonderful.
I can't thank you enough.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Tuesday 06 January 09 18:25 GMT (UK): What a lovely photo.
I look forward to seeing your site when it is done.
I never get bored looking at old family photos, you are so lucky to have that one.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Tuesday 06 January 09 18:44 GMT (UK): Have you seen the ancestral file on the mathew family at this link.
If not put in francis mathew, and thomas mathew as father and mary as mother, and ireland.

http://www.familysearch.org/ENG/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=search_all1.asp&clear_form=true
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: nerys-wales on Saturday 10 January 09 18:22 GMT (UK): Everybody seems to be confusing Mathew with Mathews - two different families - Lady Ellisha Mathew is from the LLandaff peerage, not connected to Mathews at all. :)
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Saturday 10 January 09 23:04 GMT (UK): I know that Mathew and Mathews are different families, but we were all brought up with the story that the name changed because of the illegitimacy. I also know that this is quite far fetched which is why the aim of all this chat and research is to discover who the parents of Rev. Robert Mathews were, or at least that is what I would like to do.
He doesn't seem to exist in Ballymena until he turns up as headmaster of the Diocesan School in 1829.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Sunday 11 January 09 01:56 GMT (UK): I'm not confused I know Lady Ellisha is from the Llandaff peerage.

When I decided to trace my fathers family I thought the story was a bit far fetched too and it wasn't until I saw the name of one of the sons mentioned in the will of Lady Ellisha that I thought maybe it might be worth researching the family.

It seems strange that there are now three of us researching the same family for a connection and I know the spelling of my surname is different yet again.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: nerys-wales on Sunday 11 January 09 17:23 GMT (UK): Dafydd ap Mathew (David Mathew) son of Mathew ab Leaun of LLandaff Court, Glamorgan. His descendant (George Mathew) married Elisabeth Poyntz, from an old Gloucestershire family.

Elisabeth Poyntz was originally married to the Duke of Ormond (Viscount of Thurles, Tipperary). When the Duke died, Elisabeth married George Mathew of Llandaff and he moved to her estates in Tipperary.

Back then lands were not bought but given by the Crown, and George Mathew was given Thomastown, Tipperary, upon which he built Thomastown Castle.

George and Elisabeth moved into Thomastown Castle where they raised a family.

Their descendant, Francis Mathew (1st earl of Llandaff) married Ellisha Smyth of Tinney Park, Wicklow and they had five children, Francis (2nd Earl of Llandaff) George, Montaqu and Ellisha 2.

Ellisha 1 (Lady Ellisha) died giving birth to Ellisha 2, leaving Francis (1st Earl) widowed with five children.

Francis then married Catherine Skiffington, daughter of the Earl of Massereen but she died without issue in (children) 1796. His third wife (name unknown) was a sister to the Countess of Barrymore.

His son Francis (2nd Earl of Llandaff) married Gertrude Cecilia, daughter of John la Touch of Kildare and they had no children. His brothers, George and Montaqu, never married. The three brothers, Francis, George and Montaqu were known about London as the three Mr Wiggins after a farce of that name then playing at the Haymarket. The three brothers also invented the beaver hat. All three died without issue leaving the Thomastown estate to their sister Ellisha, and the Mathew line and title became extinct.

Ellisha Mathew married James Wade from an equestrian family and they set up a stud farm at Thomastown which still exists today. Their descendants include Tommy Wade, international showjumper in the 1960s winning several cups including the 1963 King George Cup. Another descendant is Ellisha Spencer (mentioned by Rymer) from the Wade family but married into the Spencer family.

The first Spencers (brothers, John and Geoffrey) arrived in Ireland as soldiers in the Cromwellian army. Oliver Cromwell divided the Barony of Killure between John and Geoffrey and their descendants still own the lands today.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Sunday 11 January 09 18:47 GMT (UK): Thank you very much for all of this detail, it is extremely interesting and ties up with what I currently know, but with a few extra goodies.

Having said this, I am especially interested in your comment about Elisha (2nd)

Quote from: nerys-wales on Sunday 11 January 09 17:23 GMT (UK)

Ellisha Mathew married James Wade from an equestrian family and they set up a stud farm at Thomastown which still exists today.

Can I ask where this can be confirmed ? I have looked for ages but never found anything like this link to Ellisha being married. If true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) it means the current information I have about the parents of Rev. Robert Mathews looks completely wrong - as you intimated earlier.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 12 January 09 11:27 GMT (UK): I think nerys-wales must be talking about a different Ellisha Mathew. There is no doubt in my mind that Lady Ellisha died unmarried. All anouncements and any letters about her in any of the newspapers of the time say that she died unmarried and without an heir, leaving the estate to her first cousin Count Chabot.
Lady Ellisha was known as "Lady Elizabeth Mathew" and considering how the families of that era tended to re-use first names so much, there probably was another Ellisha in the family.
Title: Lady Ellisha
Post by: nerys-wales on Monday 12 January 09 18:40 GMT (UK): There were several branches of the Mathew family (Radyr, Thurles, Thomastown and Annesfield) stemming from Llandaff, Glamorgan, so I could be talking about a different Lady Ellisha. The Thomastown male line became extinct in the 1830s but the Annesfield male line continued on, where to, I do not know and cannot trace. But the Annesfield house and grounds are up for sale at an estate agents in Mayfare, London (12, Lees Place). I am not a descendant of the Mathew family myself, just love researching old Welsh families and this one is particularly interesting because they are descent from an ancient Welsh prince who died in 1006.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Wednesday 28 January 09 19:56 GMT (UK): I found this reference to the marriage of the eldest daughter of Rev. Robert Matthews Ballymena in 1857 at http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com/photo.html

August 11 at Ballymena, William HENRY, Esq., sub-inspector of constabulary, Ballyshannon, to Kate, eldest daughter of the late Rev. Robert MATTHEWS, of Ballymena.
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I have information handed down through various family members trying to trace ths lot, that the Rev. Robert had 2 sons and a daughter, but we never knew the name of the daughter. I am interested to see that the reference is to the eldest daughter. Does this just mean she was the eldest child, or that she was the eldest of more than one daughter ? If it is the latter then this does not tie in with the details I have.

anyway, thought it might be of interest.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 28 January 09 20:17 GMT (UK): 'Eldest daughter' means that she was either the eldest daughter with younger sisters or that she was the eldest surviving (in 1857) daughter.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: GilesUK on Friday 30 January 09 22:54 GMT (UK): 8) Lots of interest in this family but its Mathew not Mathews so if your name is Mathews then you are not a descendant from the Earls of Llandaff, family seat: Thomastown Castle, Tipperary.

Elisabeth Poyntz of Iron Acton, Glos. married the Duke of Ormond, Thurles, Tipperary in the early 1600s but he died aged 25 leaving Elisabeth a young widow with no children.

Elisabeth then married George Mathew from Llandaff, Wales and he moved to his wife's estates at Thurles. George was later given the whole area of Thomastown, Tipperary where he build Thomastown Castle. The Mathew descendants continued to live at Thomastown until they became extinct in the 1800s on the death of Francis (Earl of Llandaff) and his brothers George and Montaqu. Francis was married but they had no children. George and Montaqu never married so end of the Mathew line, save for Lady Elisha who inherited Thomastown and married James Wade. The Wades were very much horsey people so Thomastown became a stud and it is still owned by the Wade family today.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: GilesUK on Friday 30 January 09 23:07 GMT (UK): May I suggest looking up the Poyntz family of Iron Acton, Glos (www.actoncourt.com) open to the public between 16 June and 23 August. Lady Elisha Mathew was a desendant of Elisabeth Poyntz.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Saturday 31 January 09 23:36 GMT (UK): Hi people. I'm new to this but I have to say "What a wonderful topic".

I am not relatew to the Matthew family but I have passed through Thomastown many times. The statue of Father Theobald is a local landmark as is Thomastown Castle.

I have met some Wades still living in the area and some of them are 'horsey' people. Thomastown Stud, as far as I know, is owned by Tommy Stack, the ex-jockey most famous in connection with 3 times Grand National winner Red Rum.

If any of you Matthew descendants want pictures of Thomastown or the surrounding areas I would be happy to stop next time I am passing through. In the meantime I will sit back and continue to enjoy the discussion.

Dara.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: GilesUK on Sunday 01 February 09 10:57 GMT (UK): :D Hi Dara, I'm not related to the Mathew family either but when I was a child we bought a couple of horses from Wades of Thomastown who used breed showjumpers and fox hunters, we were into the latter. I also remember Tommy Wade who won the 1963 King George Gold Cup; he was an international showjumper and his horse was called Dundrum, named for Dundrum in Tipperary. I would love to see some pics of the place because I have been there as a child. I remember crossing the turbulent Irish Sea with an empty horsebox and heading to Tipperary for our hunters whom we named Jed and Tara, and bringing them home to Sussex. My family were big into foxhunting. Yes I remember the Wades were very horsey types, much like us really.

Oh by the way, do you know what happened to Tommy Wade? And I believe he had a brother, Jimmy. I remember them well back then. Giles.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Monday 02 February 09 02:48 GMT (UK): I can remember Tommy Wade winning the Grand Prix in the RDS in Dublin in 1961 but not the event you remember. From recollection Tommy was from Goold’s Cross which is quite a few miles from Thomastown. Dundrum was a Connemara pony and he had a heart bigger than any thoroughbred.

You’ll remember also Tommy Wade, Billy Ringrose, Seamus Hayes and Diana Connolly-Carew winning the Aga Khan.

The last I heard of Tommy was that he was Chef D’equipe with the Irish team and some of his decisions were controversial to say the least.

Dara.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: GilesUK on Monday 02 February 09 08:23 GMT (UK): :) Hi Dara, for the event you missed, try www.horsedata.co.uk/bsja_history.htm and scroll down through King George V Gold Cup winners to 1963 and you will find that Tommy and Dundrum won the cup that year. We bought Jed and Tara from Tommy's grandparents, James and Josie Wade of Thomastown.

Have you heard of Shane Breen, also from Tipperary and trained by Tommy Wade? He is an international showjumper and married to Chloe Bunn, daughter of Douglas Bunn who owns Hickstead. Chloe moved to Shane's family stud in Tipperary but they have since relocated to Hickstead to help run the place.

You are right, Dara, this is an interesting subject and Tipperary is a wonderful place, masses of unspoilt lands owned by a lucky few. Yes, I would relocate there tomorrow if I didn't have commitments here. And Ireland has refused to ban foxhunting - good for them.

Giles
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: maria_ on Wednesday 15 April 09 16:54 BST (UK): Dear all, am very new at this, but i think that i am also related to wyseass and cmathews.

my dad, john beresford mathews (who died last week, hence the prompt to search) was the son of marcus beresford who was the son of marcus beresford who was married to annie and their children: adelaide elizabeth, annie jane, william f a, alfred henry, helen kathleen, reginald russell and mary ... (all from census 1911 at 115 grafton street dublin.

i am delighted to already find that my great great grandfather was frederick albert and his father was rev. robert mathews and i think i have some new relations. my dad would have been so chuffed, i only wish i had tried this out earlier.

please let me know what information you may have i can share with my brothers and sisters, especially any old photos too.

thanks in advance for your help

maria
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Wednesday 15 April 09 17:38 BST (UK): Dear Maria,

I am so sorry to hear of your Father's death, it must be a very sad time for you and your family.

I can't tell you how pleased I am you got in touch. My Father was very close to your Grandfather. After Alfred (my Grandfather) died Uncle Marcus took my father under his wind and got him a job in HSBC, oh so many years ago.

I remember when a child and Uncle Marcus was in a Nursing Home in Greystones, Co. Wicklow Dad would always go and visit him. I myself never met him. I would only have been about 8, and not very interested in relations, although now I do regret it.

It is written on the family tree that your father and family were last heard of in South America!

I would love to hear about your life and any memories that you might have of your father or Grandfather.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Wednesday 15 April 09 18:36 BST (UK): Hi Maria,

welcome aboard, it is great to make contact with another branch of the family.

I had this photo on another web site I was creating but had to abandon it unfortunately.

This is all the people from the census in 115 Grafton Street Dublin.

Quote
Adelaide Elizabeth Richard Henry Marcus Beresford William Frederick Alexander
(Betty) (Dick) (Father)

Annie Jane Alfred Henry Annie Jane Henry Reginald Russell Helen Kathleen
(Nancye) (Altie) (Mother) (Reggie)

Mary Humphreys Marcus Beresford
(Peggy)

Enjoy.

Cheers -- Chris
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: maria_ on Friday 17 April 09 09:07 BST (UK): Morning! Sorry for delay in replying - was absolutely overwhelmed by both replies, and shared with my brothers, mum and stepfather (who started the curiosity in the first place). My brother Dominic has spent some time since trying to find links, and I have included what he has come across at the bottom of this posting - let me know whether it makes sense please! Please note I can't work out how to reply to personal messages or even send them, (not sure if my profile settings are correct) so am putting all the information on here!!

Wyseass (sorry, I don't know what else to call you!) - thank you for your kind words. I remember going to see my Grandad in Greystones when I was little (not as well as I would like though), and have very vivid memories of some of the local places around that area.

I would love to see the family tree - we did live in Brazil for a couple of years in the 1970s, following that a short spell in Iran (just before the Shah was deposed), and then back to England. Dad lived in Menorca for the last 8 years of his life on a boat, sailing was in his heart.

Here's some information you may already have, but anyway...

John Beresford Mathews b 11/11/40 - son of Marcus Beresford and Doris Woodhall (married 12/12/39
married Eileen Walke (don't know exact date but was in 1962)
daughter: Maria Doris Mathews b 15/8/62
her sons: Marcus Jon Cooke b 2/9/88 and Calum Conroy b 26/04/98
son: Charles Beresford Mathews b 10/11/63
his children: Christopher Mathews b 27/5/90, Laura Sophie Mathews b 21/6/92
son: Dominic Beresford Mathews 29/12/66 - no children
then John married Shirley Wright and they adopted a daughter in Brazil, Joanna Siobhan Mathews - no children (but getting married in 2 weeks :)

Chris
What a star you are!! Thanks so much for the picture. Apparently my Dad did have a copy of this and my brother and him had discussed it in March.

My Mum has done alot of genealogy on my grandmother Doris, but was unable to get any information earlier than 1911 census on my grandfather - and you gave me the faces and filled in the gaps with the names and nicknames - I really appreciate it. Dad reckoned I looked like Nancye, not sure but he had the look of her and his Dad!

My Mum also said she remembered Brian Mackenzie!

I would love to see details of the tree and fill in any gaps that I can. I wonder if you can tell me if the crest is the same as the one on my brother's link - anyway good to meet, and I am now intrigued as to what else I find out about any other relatives I may have that I don't know about - should be some more out there!!

Am including the emails from Dominic in another post, as it won't all fit in one

That's it folks - let me know what you know :))

Thanks very much indeed, this has helped both me and my brother at a very difficult time.

Maria
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: maria_ on Friday 17 April 09 09:09 BST (UK): I've spent a few breathless hours exploring this on Google from the rootschat Llandaff information onwards. Much more to say on this forthwith from different people, I'm sure. Here are a few more images.
Can you see a family resemblance? ;-)

(scroll down to Thomas Mathews; sea-leg genes, Chow?)

http://www.skreb.co.uk/portrait.php#

Here? !!

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://72.5.117.144/fif%3Dfpx/sc1/SC124685.fpx%26obj%3Diip,1.0%26wid%3D400%26cvt%3Djpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp%3Frecview%3Dtrue%26id%3D32196&usg=__cpEnTiddXYEEHT15RsZ5kMRMUKI=&h=476&w=400&sz=28&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=-zPcMAIBLVkJWM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomas%2Bmathews%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26chan nel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

How about here? This is Captain Thomas Mathews (scroll down) who fought two duels with the playwright Sheridan over Elizabeth Linley.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1159/616294548_e03d4f54fb_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bathdailyphoto.wordpress.com/2007/06/25/070625bath-elizabeth-ann-linley-at-abbey-st-pierrepont-st-and-the-royal-crescent/&usg=__ta6AcFkEQQUntF11U-fY5mo-0vQ=&h=768&w=1024&sz=600&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=tbg0cd 6WrSHzfM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLINLEY,%2BElizabeth%2B(later%2BMrs.%2BSheridan)%2B(1754%2B1792)%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

(she also sat for Gainsborough:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Mythosidhe/Art/Gainsborough/ElizabethLinley.jpg

This is the statue in Cork of Fr. Mathews, the 'Apostle of Temperance', whose father James (a 'natural' Mathews) was seemingly left out of Lady Ellisha's will, ending the line of the Llandaff Mathews, and passing the estates to the non-Irish/non-Catholic sides of the family...The missing link around the illegitimacy mystery must be somewhere!
I like the yoyo.

http://inphotos.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fr-mathews-yoyo.jpg

and again...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2296670522_3288ae00af.jpg?v=0

And here he is in Dublin

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fotothing.com/photos/296/296ffe80c0d0541064e00a6bc3125d9c_a63.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fotothing.com/cleftref/photo/296ffe80c0d0541064e00a6bc3125d9c/&usg=__fKDKMnWgV2RxmvjER8tucbKYdeM=&h=1733&w=1300&sz=209&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=NyoT6udfQJ6CEM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTHE%2BAPOSTLE%2BOF%2BTEMPERANCE%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla :en-GB:official%26sa%3DG

And again
http://www.philaprintshop.com/images/revmathew.jpg

There are a few books available about him on Amazon.

This is Thomastown Castle, where he was born

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Thomastown_Castle,_the_seat_of_the_Earl_of_Landaff,_Co._of_Tipperary.jpg/180px-Thomastown_Castle,_the_seat_of_the_Earl_of_Landaff,_Co._of_Tipperary.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Llandaff&usg=__HQi3SdgiQbGnbfHq9o-k2kGgJKQ=&h=126&w=18 0&sz=8&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=6BMzsaagd58LnM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomastown%2Bcastle%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

and the 'ivy-clad ruin' as it is now...

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/421299824_43d17ce6b6.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/73495229%40N00/421299824&usg=__Yebm-soPu4py8YZeh2uafKYiK_U=&h=284&w=500&sz=56&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=jX7Jq46zl45c-M:&tbnh=74&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomastown%2Bcastle%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

There are also curious potential Anglo/Irish links with Charles Mathews and his son Charles James Mathews that I have books about (two Victorian actors; Charles' father James was a religious (Wesleyan) printer/bookseller at 18, Strand in London). It seems physically there could be a link here too -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mathews

http://www.garrickclub.co.uk/images/library/G0477.jpg

Another possible part of the tree, though I don't know how closely the branch grew to ours. There seems to be a Georgian move to America from other seafaring/military Mathews'.

And, while it's popped into my head, there's a pub by the water in Penzance I stumbled across last year with more (sea-trading) Mathews history.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: maria_ on Friday 17 April 09 09:10 BST (UK): Another one from Dom....

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=seAKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=Montague+MATHEWS+,+(Lt.Gen.)&source=bl&ots=orkOnLalWT&sig=0QZboM78bZHwQYWS-UstNyhinIA&hl=en&ei=TS3nScfoNsHJ-Aaf-qjVBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#PPA54,M1
Check out page 54 for the family crest and motto. I wonder if the crest is the same as the one on the silver salver given to Marcus when he retired?

The solution to the added 's' may be Thomas Mathew's marriage to Mary Mathews of Dublin - their children were Francis (first earl) and Catherine-Ann-Maria, who married twice and died without issue. Though Mary dropped her 's' when she married Thomas...Hmmm...
Scroll down for Thomas Mathew:
http://www.thepeerage.com/p23201.htm#i232009

If the missing links can be found (the big family secret ? around Francis, his sister Ellisha/Elisabeth and the Welsh (Llandaff) and Irish (Thurles and Thomastown) estates and the birth of a 'natural' son in Paris c. 1765 and/or George IV's possible hidden son/s), it seems we could be in some way connected to a line of Welsh princes that is traceable back to the 4th century.

http://martinrealm.org/genealogy/mathew.htm

See pages 332-333 of this for genealogy of the Tipperary branch:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qYFuFfd2kakC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=Catherine+Mathew+Philip+Roe&source=bl&ots=0a5efVxfE-&sig=4CklLF-MvMjSklazlmcnCu4LeqQ&hl=en&ei=ZzbnSbywKZm7_AaezejPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA333,M1

;D
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: maria_ on Friday 17 April 09 09:12 BST (UK): and the last one to date....

My first thought on looking at George of Hanover in the first pic was that he's rather like Dad. Have another look at the pic of our Ria-discovered relative Chris Mathews though!

Here's another of 'Prinny'..
http://media.photobucket.com/image/george%20IV/mariaFitzherbert/George/George_IV_bust1.jpg

Here are the three brothers Francis James Mathew, Montague James Mathew and George Toby Skeffington Mathew - dandies and men-about-town in London, credited with the invention of the beaver hat, and other sartorial innovations such as recipes for boot-blacking - nephews of Lady Ellisha, and quite the antedote to their cousin the Apostle of Temperance, it seems...

http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169475/A_Welch_Tandem_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803

http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169499/The_Three_Mr_Wigginss_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803

To elaborate on yesterday a bit, as Francis, the eldest legitimate son and the second earl, was busy selling off most of the Welsh and Irish estates to fund his dandy lifestyle in London, Fr. Theobald Mathew (son of the natural James) was incurring massive debts to fund his temperance tours of the UK and USA, on the unkept promise that Lady Ellisha would leave him what was left. The Viscomte de Chabot, who inherited Thomastown against the family's wishes, became the French Ambassador to the UK..
http://www.thepeerage.com/p3540.htm

I wonder how he managed to keep his stable during the Famine of the 1840s...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hl=en&tab=wl

...and here's Lady Ellisha's will, which apparently mentions her 'son', William Fitzwilliam Mathew of the Bengal Lancers, somewhere...
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/DoLUserDownload/dommat1@yahoocouk/prob/11/1959/0/315.pdf

Back in Wales, here's Llandaff Court (rebuilt in the 18th C., and now used as the Cathedral School)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/372175682_e897705aab.jpg?v=0

and the remains of its predecessor, Llandaff Castle:
http://www.cavinguk.co.uk/holidays/Cardiff2006/normal/LlandaffCastle.jpg

and here, one of the Mathew tombs in Llandaff Cathedral:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Victoria_Park_Canton.jpg/180px-Victoria_Park_Canton.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton,_Cardiff&usg=__OMPC6bwe5yPqMYL4uT985iJLWX4=&h=148&w=180&sz=12&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=8IocB0-flUY3VM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmathew%2Bchapel%2Bllandaff%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfi refox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

and this article gives info about the move from Llandaff/Radyr to the Thurles estate in Ireland in the 17th C.: - the Tipperary generations are then clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radyr

Going back a bit, here's some info about Meirchion (Latin: Marcianus...!!!), whose grandfather Cunedda came down from southern Scotland.
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/meircmmd.html

The Beresford connection looks like it could be with the Beresfords / de Pouys of Waterford in the 18th/early 19th C. Haven't found it yet though.

The big missing link is somewhere between 1790s and 1830s. Is it Rev Robert Mathew of Ballymena or his brother Captain William Fitzwilliam Mathew of Bengal? I've come across Mathew as a surname down generations in India again and again, too.

Finally. ..whatever the link is from this to the ensuing generations, it seems to be a hell of a story.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 08 June 09 21:16 BST (UK): I was sent this by a cousin, and thought that you might be interested.
It puts forward a few questions like:
Why was he diaconised at Dublin Castle and not at church?
Why was the service conducted by Bishop of Cloyne and not Dublin?
Some other things interesting at the time are:
The Bishop of Dublin at the time was Beresford.
King George IV had left Ireland after a visit 5 days before this took place.
Any knowlege or ideas from anyone would be good.
This is the first document that places the man at a specific place and at a certain time, which is great!
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Wednesday 24 June 09 09:43 BST (UK): I know I promised to dig this photo out ages ago, but at last I found it in a shoe box inside a blanket box in the spare bedroom while poking around looking for our wedding album to show the kids !

This is a photo taken in the early 1960's of an oil portrait of the Rev Robert Mathews M.A. (T.C.D) - not sure what the T.C.D. is. Some notes with it from my Grandfather (Reginald Russell) state 'Born 1798 Cashel' and 'brothers Thomas and James'

That's it for now - Enjoy!
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: sbwelsh on Friday 10 July 09 11:40 BST (UK): Looking for Parents of John "The Great" Mathis of Tuckerton, New Jersey, US who was born John Mathews in 1690, Merthyr Tydfil, Wales. ???
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Tuesday 11 August 09 00:03 BST (UK): In response to questions about Crests and Signet rings, my family are all given a signet ring on our 21st birthday. It bears no resemblance to anything I have found for the Mathews family, but seems to be something to do with Frederick Albert « see top image in Reply #26 on: Saturday 03 January 09 20:29 GMT (UK) »

Has anyone else seen this before ?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Bgrizzo9468 on Wednesday 12 August 09 11:32 BST (UK): From Brian McDonnell,
T.C.D.is Trinity College Dublin, My Mother was Mary Humphrys Mathews.
She is pictured sitting on Annies knee in the Mathews family Photograph
taken in Grafton Street ,Dublin.

Moderator's Comment: photo of living person removed
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Bgrizzo9468 on Wednesday 12 August 09 16:57 BST (UK): Quote from: wyseass on Wednesday 31 December 08 12:40 GMT (UK)
;D How nice to hear from you. I have found you on the family tree my late uncle gave to me, and am delighted that you got in touch.
The whole crux of it is to discover finally who were Rev. Robert Mathews parents, as this has never been done with proof.
I am also now trying to find a connection between the Mathews and Beresford's, as the use of the name 'Marcus Beresford' by Frederick Mathews for his son has intrigued me. There must be a reason to use another family's names. I just need to find it, so any info. on that would be much appreciated.
Marcus Mathews (Banker in Northern Bank), was joint manager of Henry Street, Dublin. Promoted to manager of Grafton St in 1904 and then further promoted to Secretary of the Northern Bank in 1927, when he moved back to Belfast. This info. is got from "Irish Times" archives, which I can access at the library.
I can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear from you, and I'm sure ChrisPage will agree.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Tuesday 25 August 09 20:41 BST (UK): The ring looks like it has something to do with the masonic order. I really don't think it is a family crest.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Tuesday 25 August 09 21:20 BST (UK): Just had a quick look on the web and this crest seems to be used in the middle temple where barristers are in London, it was originally used by the the Knights Templar in the crusader years. My husband's father had the crest when he became a barrister in the middle temple at the inn of law, and he remembers his father taking him there and showing it to him.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Bgrizzo9468 on Tuesday 25 August 09 22:23 BST (UK): Dear Wyseass,
I attach a pic. of the silver salver passed-on to me by my Mother.
The pic. is the best I can do, with a difficult subject.
The origin of the salver is cloudy, I was told that it represented the family crest of Mathews.
The links to Lady Ellisha Mathew,are at best--Tenuous.
I have attempted to contact Ballymena Academy to establish a link with Marcus B. Mathews's Father & Grandfather.
Any facts that I may obtain will be passed-on.
Many thanks for the contact,
Brian McDonnell.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Tuesday 25 August 09 22:30 BST (UK): Sorry can't seem to be able to see the picture, I am obviously doing something stupid. Do you know of any reason for the family to use the name Marcus or Beresford? I can't seem to find any link apart from the fact that Beresford was the Archbishop at that time and the family were very prominent in Ireland.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: exilewa on Thursday 27 August 09 23:37 BST (UK): I stumbled upon this fascinating discussion by chance but hope I can add a little to it. With reference to the Wade family, my mother is a sister to James and Josie (the last survivor of that generation) and was raised in what was then the lodge house to the Castle. It remains the family farm to this day and is run by one of my cousins. My Uncle James was father to Tommy Wade and his numerous siblings. As a child I visited the famous showjumper "Dundrum" on a number of occasions and Tommy Wade did indeed win a lot of competitions in Europe and the UK. I also visited the Castle a number of times as a child and clearly remember the gardens which were elegant even then (the 1960s and 70s). I have a lot of happy memories of the area and remember Thomastown well although it is a lot bigger these days. In terms of other names that have been mentioned, my grandmother (James' mother) was a "Breen" and related to Dan Breen, the man credited with leading the first armed act of the Irish Uprising. For a time he was one of the most wanted men in Ireland. I have a lot more blather about the families that lived in Thomastown if anyone is interested. Life is strange as my mother now lives near Hickstead after she moved to England. She married my father who owned the farm across the road from the lodge house to the Castle but they left Ireland not long after.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Friday 28 August 09 12:01 BST (UK): I can see the photo now, thanks.
"Vincula Temno" - "I despise bonds" - an odd phrase and apart from it being the family motto for the Sinclair family seems to have something to do with archery? No idea what.
I still think it is all to do with masonry. But not being a mason I have no idea.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Bgrizzo9468 on Friday 28 August 09 14:08 BST (UK): Dear Wyseass,
The same symbol appears on the Mathews Signet rings.
I had one & my Brother,Rodney, had one also.
There could be a connection also, to Masonry, Marcus B. Senior was quite high-up in Irish
Masonry.Exactly what position I dont know.
My Mother was in possession of her Father's regalia,Sword etc. What happened to it all, I dont know,my Brother & I were not allowed to play with the bits & pieces,for obvious reasons!.
OK,
Brian McDonnell.
PS. I have just remembered---my signet ring actually belonged to Marcus B. Senior,my Brothers was a copy.
PPS. My wife & I also have a few pieces of Mathews Silver----Teapot,Cream jug,sugar bowl & cutlery----all with that Symbol engraved
on them,passed-on by Mother.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Tref on Monday 31 August 09 15:15 BST (UK): I am a Mathew of Llandaff origin now in Australia tracing some history great to read you discovery trail. No history of such emblems in this part of the family we are part of the remaining remnant from Wales.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: sbwelsh on Monday 31 August 09 16:12 BST (UK): Tref; Please excuse me for popping in. I am a descendant of a John Mathis born before 1690 in Merthyr Tydfil, Wales. John changed his name from Mathews to Mathis when he came to The United States. This is where my info hits a dead end. If you have any information on this man and his parents/family, I would be forever grateful.

Sincerely,
Martha Powell Caparell
email; (*)

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Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 31 August 09 23:31 BST (UK): If it isn't anything to do with the masons, do you think it might be something ito do with the "orange order", because the fily seem to have been involved in that in their day?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: wyseass on Monday 31 August 09 23:40 BST (UK): This was posted in reply to my question about Robert Mathews in genforum by Nick Reddan -
"Alumni Dublenses has:
Robert MATTHEWS son of John, musicus, born Co. Tipperary, matriculated 1812 aged 15. BA 1817 MA 1820".
It could be him! Who knows?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Monday 31 August 09 23:47 BST (UK): Quote from: Bgrizzo9468 on Tuesday 25 August 09 22:23 BST (UK)

I attach a pic. of the silver salver passed-on to me by my Mother.

This reminds me of the Agnus Dei symbol
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/symbols/agnus_dei.htm

Dara.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: sbwelsh on Tuesday 01 September 09 11:57 BST (UK): Moderator: Thank you for that information. I am, as you can tell, new to this . I do believe this makes my third post! :D
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Monday 21 September 09 22:15 BST (UK): To exilewa - Has Josie Wade (fomerly Breen) three siblings, Alice (Ryan), Bridget (Hickey) and Michael Breen? Also, you say your mother lives in Hickstead. Is she related to Shane Breen married to Chloe Bunn. The Bunn family own the Hickstead show jumping grounds and Shane won lots of cups for showjumping. He is also from Tipperary (near Cashel) and was trained by Tommy Wade.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Monday 21 September 09 22:38 BST (UK): The Mathew family of Thomastown descended from George Mathew of Llandaff and Elisabeth Poyntz of Iron Acton, Glocestershire. Elisabeth Poyntz was the widow of the Duke of Ormond, family seat, Thurles and also an ancestor to Prince Charles and Princess Diana. Her grandaughter (Nano Nagle) founded the Presentation Convent School for Girls and her grandson (Toby Mathew) founded the Irish Temperance Society. Toby and Nano were cousins. The family became extinct around 1836 on the death of Francis (Earl of Llandaff) who died without issue. His brothers, George and Montaque never married. The family name was Mathew (never Mathews) and there was a branch at Annsfield (Cork) also, I believe, extinct. The only survivors left are from the original Welsh branch. Re Beresford, Lord Waterford (the Marcus of Waterford) is Patrick Beresford lives in Portlaw, Waterford. ???
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Monday 21 September 09 22:59 BST (UK): Back to exilewa, cos I'm trying to work out who you are. Is your mother Winifred (Winnie) Wade and did you haver a brother Maurice who was a Tory MP or a minister for housing or something way back in the sixties? or were you Maurice?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: maria_ on Tuesday 22 September 09 07:45 BST (UK): Dear all, I have been given a picture of my Dad's (John Beresford Mathews) signet ring, and although a little blurry - you can see it's the same emblem - I do believe my Grandad Marcus Beresford was a member of the Masons, so my Mum remembers.

I would love to know more about this too!

Thanks
Maria
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: exilewa on Tuesday 22 September 09 20:23 BST (UK): Rymer, regarding my mother's family (the Wades), Winnie Wade was my auntie and her son Maurice my first cousin (he was a member of the old Greater London Council many years ago). He has two sons. My grandmother Josie Wade did have the three siblings you mention. My first cousin still lives near Cashel. My mother is the last surviving child of Josie Wade and she married James who was also a resident of Thomastown (in fact he lived on the farm by the Theobald Mathew statue). I am not sure if I am a distantly related to Shane Breen but it seems highly likely.

Moderator's Note: Edited to remove details of living people. Rootschat is really here to help people find their ancestors, not their living relatives, and because of that, we do have a 'no living people policy'. That means if you do post names and information about them it will be removed to protect their identity and privacy. Please use PM (personal message) system to exchange information on living people.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Tuesday 22 September 09 23:18 BST (UK): exilewa, I used visit Thomastown as a child and played in the castle ruins, which was why I was searching Tipperary ancestors in the Cashel, Emly and Knock-of-Ella area. But beyond that is against the rules, so hope you don't mind if I PM you.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: exilewa on Tuesday 22 September 09 23:24 BST (UK): rymer, that would be grand but I am not sure how to arrange this - can confirm that my father was James Walshe and he passed away in 1982.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Tuesday 22 September 09 23:46 BST (UK): exilewa, Go to the top of the Roots Chat page and click on message...
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: nerys-wales on Wednesday 23 September 09 14:31 BST (UK): There are several links on the net to the Mathew family and the Welsh side of this family still survives today. The Irish branches died out a long time ago and the lands to my knowledge went to the Wade family and some of it was sold to Tommy Stack (showjumping). The family was Roman Catholic and descended from Elisabeth Poyntz of Iron Acton (England), who was also Roman Catholic. This family produced a nun (Nano Nagle) and a priest (Theobald Mathew, who created the Presentation Sisters and the Temperance Movement; the family was well and truly Catholic. Nano was the daughter of Ann Mathew, great granddaughter of Elisabeth Poyntz. Also, the surname was Mathew not Mathews and always has been way back hundreds of years to David Mathew of Llandaff, Glamorgan. I am not sure how Wades inherited the Mathew lands but I saw somewhere on the net it was through marriage, which would cause the Irish Mathew branch to become extinct. I am not connected to this family at all but love researching old Welsh families and hope this info might be of some help.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Friday 25 September 09 20:37 BST (UK): Quote from: rymer on Tuesday 22 September 09 23:18 BST (UK)
Knock-of-Ella

Knockavilla?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Friday 25 September 09 20:46 BST (UK): Quote from: nerys-wales on Wednesday 23 September 09 14:31 BST (UK)
Tommy Stack (showjumping)

Tommy Wade was a Showjumper.

Tommy Stack was a Steeplechaser. He rode Red Rum to victory in the English Grand National at Aintree and still trains horses in Thomastown.

Dara.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: nerys-wales on Saturday 26 September 09 19:15 BST (UK): Lady Ellisha Mathew (formerly Smyth) married Francis Mathew (1st Earl of Llandaff) and her children were Francis (2nd Earl) George and Montaque, known about London as the three Mr Wiggins. The family name was Mathew not Mathews so I would imagine the Grafton Street Mathews were not the same family, therefore no connection. Also, the name Eleisha is not a form of Elisabeth but of Eilish, which is Irish for Alice. I enclose a couple of links that may be of help.

http://www.oceansbridge.com/oil-paintings/product/41374/mrselishamathew1777
http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169499/The_Three_Mr_Wigginss_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Monday 12 October 09 09:59 BST (UK): Another wet Sunday afternoon and another shoe box full of Grandfather's (Reggie) photos.

Quote
Text as written on the back of the photo

Ronnie: 13 Father:32 Billy: 14
(Altie)

Jill: 8 Betty: 11 Jack: 7
(Miriam) (Elizabeth) (Cecil)

Doing the maths there is no way Altie is 32, taking that he was born in 1898 and died in 1951.
I have it that if Billy (William Peel Beresford Mathews 1921 – 1979) was 14 when this picture was taken,
then Altie was 23 when Billy was born; so Altie must be 37 in this picture.

Either that or my dates are wrong - which is of course quite possible.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Monday 12 October 09 10:04 BST (UK): And I eventually found the portrait photo of Rev. Robert's wife, Elizabeth Catherine Humphreys
that was promised ages ago.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: bowles on Wednesday 14 October 09 19:13 BST (UK): Hello,
I just chanced upon this forum and I noticed that Lady Ellisha Mathew said that Francis James Mathew, last Earl of Llandaff, had no children. I have a family tree provided by a relative that shows him as having two daughters, one of whom was called Mary. believed that Lady Mary Mathew married Patrick Duggan, the captain of her father's yacht. Patrick Duggan is my great great great grandfather.
I am therefore confused.
Bowles
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Crauford on Sunday 29 November 09 21:50 GMT (UK): I have just come into the posession of a number of legal documents relating to George Mathew of Thomastown, dated 1650's onward, relating to land transfers, loans and the like. These are amongst several hundred documents of all sorts dating from 1603 up until 1890's of many different surnames, I am still going through them but some relate to the Duke of Ormond, some relate to George Mathew in Llandaff, and as I have only just discovered this site it seems they may be of interest to you all. I will be trying to catalogue as many as I can over the next few weeks, but some are quite difficult to read. I will try to get them in some sort of date order.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: sbwelsh on Monday 30 November 09 10:31 GMT (UK): How very exciting!
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Tuesday 01 December 09 01:03 GMT (UK): Thanks for letting us know. Look forward to seeing anything you can post on here.

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Crauford on Monday 11 January 10 21:17 GMT (UK): Sorry i'm so slow with information, too many other things to do! This is one of the documents I mentioned in my first post. Education was not cheap even then! The top paragraph reads "An acc't of What money has been Expended on the Education & Maintenance of Francis Mathew, Son of Thomas Mathew Esq: from June 1752 being the time of his going into England in Company with the Right Hon'ble the Lord Viscount Fitzwilliam, to the year 1760, No Charge being made here for his Maintenance Clothing and Education from May 1746 to June 1752 during which time he was maintained, Clothed and Educated by Richard Mathew Esq his Grand Father"
The total sum was for £436.1s.7d. This included a sum of 10s 4d, 6 months wages to Ball Carrol for his attendance on Francis, I assume he was a servant.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: mathewsr on Friday 29 January 10 12:32 GMT (UK): Greetings All, I've finally registered myself. I'm Rachel Mathews-McKay, 2nd of 3 granddaughters of the late and great Rev. RBP Mathews, more commonly known as Ronnie,( Ronald Beresford Peel). Please find attached a photo of him and his wife (also sadly passed away) Rosetta Florence Walter Mathews.
I have a few bits and bobs passed on to me from him, but not that much. wyseass posted a copy of the ordination papers my grandpa left me that belonged to Rev.Robert and I do have a signet ring with the emblem on it. It's not Grandpa's original one that he got when he was 21 but a copy he had made, I do wear it. I also found a photocopy of a picture of Annie Henry last night, i'll post it once scanned. I have to say the picture of the Mathews clan that cmathews posted had me all watery-eyed.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: cmathews on Friday 29 January 10 13:33 GMT (UK): Thank you so much for this, it is wonderful stuff.

-- Chris
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: mathewsr on Friday 29 January 10 13:45 GMT (UK): I have to say my signet ring is nowhere near as beautiful as some of the ones posted, just plain gold but I also have the seal so I could have one made.

My grandfather was most definitely one of my favourite people on this earth, he was a good man, kind, generous, funny, deeply philosophical (also Theosophical) and has left a long legacy of what matters. Most notably his work for the Leprosy Mission. I would be very keen to find more connections with his Indian roots. I know he had an emotional tie linked to his father being posted there in his years of army service, Altie and Miriam were married in Mumbai, formerly Bombay and I do have a copy of their wedding cert. I shall post that too. And perhaps it is that that drew him to giving so much of his life to visiting India annually for 2 months and working for the Leprosy Mission for 17 years.

I should somewhere have a photo too of Granny Olive, the much loved (by Ronnie anyhow) nanny.

"In every conceivable manner, the family is the link to our past, the bridge to our future." -- Alex Haley (1921-1992), internationally acclaimed speaker, writer and author of Roots
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Broomfield on Sunday 13 June 10 14:30 BST (UK): Hi, I was looking for Lady Ellisha when I came across you message, I bought a copy of her portrait in B/W very old It has a history on the back handwritten where it mentions a son son Louis and the address 1 Rue Beaujon Paris as his address. I have taken some pics as it is at times difficult to read for the untrained eye.Hope it is of help, may need to send to your email address as I dont see how to upload pics here.
Lynda
Files are too big will have to send one at a time
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Monday 05 July 10 15:22 BST (UK): Hi Lynda,
I have a great interest in Lady Ellisha and would love to see the portrait and history on the back.
I think I am right in saying I cannot send you a message about emailing them until you have made 3 posts.
If you can reply to this and then send another post with just a smilie on it that would enable me to PM you.
I hope others on here interested in Ellisha will see your post.

regards Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Monday 05 July 10 15:35 BST (UK): Quote from: Crauford on Monday 11 January 10 21:17 GMT (UK)
Sorry i'm so slow with information, too many other things to do! This is one of the documents I mentioned in my first post. Education was not cheap even then! The top paragraph reads "An acc't of What money has been Expended on the Education & Maintenance of Francis Mathew, Son of Thomas Mathew Esq: from June 1752 being the time of his going into England in Company with the Right Hon'ble the Lord Viscount Fitzwilliam, to the year 1760, No Charge being made here for his Maintenance Clothing and Education from May 1746 to June 1752 during which time he was maintained, Clothed and Educated by Richard Mathew Esq his Grand Father"
The total sum was for £436.1s.7d. This included a sum of 10s 4d, 6 months wages to Ball Carrol for his attendance on Francis, I assume he was a servant.

I downloaded and can open the document but could not bring it up clear enough to read.

regards Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ritthichai on Monday 13 September 10 12:13 BST (UK): The Gentleman's Magazine of August 1781 recorded the funeral of the first Ellisha Mathew, wife of Francis Mathew, first Earl of Landaff, thus (p. 342):

Deaths: In the county of Tipperary in Ireland, Mrs Mathew; whose funeral exceeded any thing of the kind ever seen in that kingdom. Besides the different corps of Mr Mathew’s volunteers, who came upwards of 20 miles to meet the body, and to pay the last honour so justly due to to the respected wife of their esteemed commander, all the nobility and gentry of the county and its neighbourhood seemed to vie with each other in their expressions of sorrow. The aged, the young, and infant tears were shed for the death of this beauteous, worthy and accomplished woman. Nor was this tribute more than justly due to so much virtue and exalted merit. One hundred and fifty mourning coaches, fifty-four of which were drawn by six horses, with a great number of servants, were sent by them to join the funeral procession; and when it arrived within a few miles of the place of interment, every thing was arranged in melancholy state and funeral order. His Grace the Archbishop of Cashel dressed in his full pontificals, with his mitre on his head, accompanied by a long train of his diocesan clergy, appeared, and joined the solemn march, as did also the Titular or Popish Archbishop, with his clergy, together with the greatest tenantry in Ireland; one hundred and twenty domestics dressed in black, and a numerous train of old men and women in deep mourning, pensioners, who were cloathed and fed by the humane hand of this charitable woman; and almost all the inhabitants of the country round. The place of interment of that antient and respectable family is in the centre of Thomas-town Park (the greatest and most princely demesne in this kingdom), embowered in a wood in the cemetery of a ruined monastery; to this there is no road; but the peasantry of the place, unsolicited, and of their own free motion, since the death of their much-loved and lamented mistress, gravelled a road through the park, of some miles in length to it, and over the sacred spot, where her remains were to be deposited, erected with pious hands a rude though handsome mausoleum. The procession, with extended near five miles, being arrived here, his Grace the Archbishop performed the funeral service, whose distress was so visible, and whose feelings were so nicely expressed, with the circumstances of the place, the number, and the unfeigned sorrow of those who assisted, added and awful dignity to this grand and mournful scene. Eight noblemen bore the pall on this occasion. The family dissentions, which for a century have divided the great people of the country, seemed to be buried with the body, and is an happy presage of succeeding days of peace and harmony.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ltmatt on Wednesday 06 October 10 15:07 BST (UK): I am a descendent of James Matthews who emigrated to Boston in 1718. I think he was a grandson of Theobald. Can anyone tell me where I might find information about James' lineage? We think that James was born ABT 1690. He was married to Mary McGill. Many thanks for any help anyone can give.
Turner Matthews
Decatur, Alabama
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: tunkin67 on Monday 29 November 10 20:08 GMT (UK): For those looking for Robert Mathew who settled in Ballymena, I know of a branch of this family who settled originally in Belfast before 1600. They were from Wales, Pantygored, Pentyrch, Cardiff, to be specific. William Mathew was the first of this family to settle in Belfast. His son, Robert, settled in Glenarm, Ballymena. His great grandson, also Robert, as was his father, remained there. If we can call him, the last one I have a record of, Robert Matthews IV, was born some time around 1700. His father died in 1752. I used "Matthews" because his father is the first of this line who changed the spelling of the surname Mathew to Matthews. His siblings were John, William, Hans & Martha. William and his offspring moved to Briarfield, County Tyrone. William's grandson moved to New South Wales. I have no idea if this is in fact your Robert's line, but it is certainly possible. If this your line, it goes back to Robert ap Mathew ap Ieuan, brother of Sir Daffydd Mathew.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: silveryfox on Sunday 20 March 11 17:47 GMT (UK): Quote from: Crauford on Sunday 29 November 09 21:50 GMT (UK)
I have just come into the posession of a number of legal documents relating to George Mathew of Thomastown, dated 1650's onward, relating to land transfers, loans and the like. These are amongst several hundred documents of all sorts dating from 1603 up until 1890's of many different surnames, I am still going through them but some relate to the Duke of Ormond, some relate to George Mathew in Llandaff, and as I have only just discovered this site it seems they may be of interest to you all. I will be trying to catalogue as many as I can over the next few weeks, but some are quite difficult to read. I will try to get them in some sort of date order.

Hi Crauford

I wonder is there any mention in your papers of Edmund Mathew, who came across to Ireland from Radyr with his brother George? Edmund was a Colonel and Governor of Newry when he died around 1654 in Newry, unmarried and childless, possibly from starvation.

Best Regards
Jim
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ltmatt on Sunday 20 March 11 19:42 GMT (UK): Thanks for the information. How can we access this "new" 1600s Irish information?

James Natthews Sr came to Boston from Ireland in 1718. Within a year he was in Chester County, PA. Somewhere along the way he married Mary McGill. Their son, James Jr married Mary Doak, moved down the Shennandoah, to Mecklinburg County, NC. In their old age they moved to Maury County, Tennessee. I am their descendent, and my family still owns one of the original farms. We have several heirlooms, including a half peck measure that supposedly came from Ireland.

We know that the Matthews, Doak, Walker, and Hanna families migrated together for about 100 years, all ending up in Maury County, TN about 1810.

We have not been able to identify James Sr's father. Sounds like your "new" info is a good lead for study,
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: silveryfox on Sunday 20 March 11 21:26 GMT (UK): Hi Itmatt

My interest in Edmund arises from a note I'm writing on the history of Blockhouse Island, a fortified island in the mouth of Carlingford Lough (in County Down, Northern Ireland). The blockhouse has generally been believed to have been built in or before 1604, however my researches have (I think!) revealed it to have been built around 40 years later under the direction of Edmund Mathew, who was at the time Governor of the town of Newry, and of the outlying garrisons of Narrow Water and Carlingford. His Governorship was sponsored and funded by James, Marquis of Ormond(e), his relation via his brother George, and Charles I's Lieutenant General of Ireland.

If you look at Page 18 of the Journal of the Royal Historical Society of Ireland (see http://www.archive.org/stream/journalroyalhis03irelgoog#page/n25/mode/1up), you will see some extracts from the Calendar of State Papers of Ireland communications between the Marquis and Edmund. Also, Page 281 of the Red Dragon magazine (see http://www.archive.org/stream/reddragonnation00unkngoog#page/n301/mode/1up) gives a genealogy of the Mathews of Aradyr [Radyr] and mentions Edmund.

Regards
Jim
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: tunkin67 on Sunday 20 March 11 23:15 GMT (UK): I would love to see your results when completed. I am from the line of Theobald ap George and reside in the USA.

Steve Matthews
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: tunkin67 on Sunday 20 March 11 23:20 GMT (UK): The small amount of information I have on Edmund is that he became guardian of his brother's minor children and left his estate to them when he died.
Quote
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: silveryfox on Sunday 20 March 11 23:49 GMT (UK): Quote from: tunkin67 on Sunday 20 March 11 23:15 GMT (UK)
I would love to see your results when completed. I am from the line of Theobald ap George and reside in the USA.

Steve Matthews

Hi Steve

I'll ensure I post a link to this thread - should be in the next month.

Regards
Jim
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: tunkin67 on Monday 28 March 11 02:23 BST (UK): Quote from: Crauford on Sunday 29 November 09 21:50 GMT (UK)
I have just come into the posession of a number of legal documents relating to George Mathew of Thomastown, dated 1650's onward, relating to land transfers, loans and the like. These are amongst several hundred documents of all sorts dating from 1603 up until 1890's of many different surnames, I am still going through them but some relate to the Duke of Ormond, some relate to George Mathew in Llandaff, and as I have only just discovered this site it seems they may be of interest to you all. I will be trying to catalogue as many as I can over the next few weeks, but some are quite difficult to read. I will try to get them in some sort of date order.

We will all be very interested in seeing your final product. Any way any of us can assist?
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: fmccabe628 on Monday 21 November 11 01:04 GMT (UK): I am related --very likely-- to John Matthews (1804-79), formerly 51 Lower Clanbrassil Street and am trying to communicate with Christine Page. John appears in Griffith's Valuation as owner of property at Clanbrassil Street, and the Will of Margaret McCabe (1845-90) speaks of him as her husband, and the Will also recites a reference to the Clanbrassil Street Property. I haven't seen his Will and Codicil, as yet.

The John Matthews you seek is buried in Mt Jerome Cemetery, along with John Henry Matthews (1865-67), Isaac Matthews (1871-76), John Matthews (1804-79), William Henry Matthews (1868-88), Mabella Louisa Matthews (1845-93) and William Henry Matthews ( 1831-98).

According to baptismal record at St Kevin's Church, Harrington Road, John Matthews and Margaret McCabe are parents of my great aunt, Margaret Matthews (1877-1960) [dates revised/corrected 2 Mar 2012 by fxm], and possibly parents of Elizabeth Matthews, my maternal grandmother, as well. Elizabeth married Patrick Doran of Kiltealy, County Wexford, Ireland. My mother is Ellen Doran, born Hardwicke Street, 1904 and came to Boston in 1910. Mom passed in 1966.

I have a record of a Patrick Matthews of 50 Lower Clanbrassil Street, Dublin. Can anyone tell me who Patrick is? With Margaret Mitten he supposedly parented one Elizabeth Matthews, also on record at St Kevin's, d/b August 1866.

You folks sure have done a lot of work on the Matthews/Mathew/Mathews families
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Friday 25 November 11 01:09 GMT (UK): Hi, I am Christine Page. Gt Gt Grandaughter of John Matthews/Mathews. I looked at the Grave details and am so grateful to you for posting this.

William Henry Matthews and Mabella are my Gt Grandparents. They had 5 sons and 3 daughters.

Williams father John had 2 more sons John and Isaac that i found. Have no details of his wfe or if he had any daughters.

Do you have a tree on Ancestry if so I think I found it, I will do some more digging now and see if we can find a connection

Regards
Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: fmccabe628 on Friday 25 November 11 17:47 GMT (UK): Have attached Baptism document for Margaret Matthews, daughter of John Matthews (1805-79) and wedding picture circa 1905 Dublin; Margaret Matthews and Richard Clinton. Also in pic is Elizabeth Matthews, married to Patrick Doran at this point in time, and two children of Elizabeth Doran, i.e., William Doran (1899-?) and Margaret Doran (1901-?). Margaret Doran was also known as Margaret Collinson, (hus Harry) Margaret Curley (hus George). One child by Harry was Elizabeth Sullivan nee Collinson and two grandchildren: Harriett and Francis, latter two livine currently in the greater Boston area.

Please correspond with me at *, if that's possible.
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Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Wednesday 04 January 12 14:01 GMT (UK): Whilst doing some more research I came across a transcription of Lady Elizabeth's will.
Try this link.

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=PROB_11/1959

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ancestory on Thursday 19 July 12 00:29 BST (UK): Hi,
My name is winnie Looby. My grand mother was johanna wade married to Edmund Looby, Ballinree. I'm sure we are related as I know I am related to the Wades of Thomastown and Tommy Wade and my father were first cousins. My great grandmother would be Breen, do you know her first name and what her mothers surname and fathers surname was. I hope you and your family are keeping well.

Kind regards,
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: silveryfox on Monday 08 April 13 22:37 BST (UK): Quote from: silveryfox on Sunday 20 March 11 21:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Itmatt

My interest in Edmund arises from a note I'm writing on the history of Blockhouse Island, a fortified island in the mouth of Carlingford Lough (in County Down, Northern Ireland). The blockhouse has generally been believed to have been built in or before 1604, however my researches have (I think!) revealed it to have been built around 40 years later under the direction of Edmund Mathew, who was at the time Governor of the town of Newry, and of the outlying garrisons of Narrow Water and Carlingford. His Governorship was sponsored and funded by James, Marquis of Ormond(e), his relation via his brother George, and Charles I's Lieutenant General of Ireland.

All

I'm embarrassed it has taken so long, however I'm also relieved to say I have posted the article mentioned above - please see http://www.oldwarrenpointforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10667&p=97215#p97215 (http://www.oldwarrenpointforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10667&p=97215#p97215)

Regards
Jim
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rmburke on Monday 13 January 14 13:21 GMT (UK): Hi! You wrote about Rev. Robert Mathews...born 1798 Cashel. Is this the same Cashel as found on the Townland of Creevamoy (very near the Village of Broughshane, which is 2 miles thereabouts from Ballymena) in Co. Antrim? I have a Wm. Graham who married 2nd to a Sally Morton in 1846 in Kirkkinriola, Ballymena...and the marriage was performed by Rev. R. Matthews. Wm was living on the Townland of Creevamoy, and some of my Gordon's clan also on Creevamoy, but they always cited their area on Creevamoy as "Cashel". Why I am inquiring. I am seeking to find out the church in which Wm and Sally were married, thinking it may have been St. Patrick's in Ballymena. So I am doing some hunting around certain information known. Thanks much for any reply. Michelle
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rymer on Wednesday 15 January 14 20:33 GMT (UK): To ancestory

Your great-grandmother was possibly Josie Breen married to James Wade. Josie was one of four siblings: Josie, Alice, Bridget and Michael. Alice was my grandmother and Tommy Wade was my second cousin. I don't know their mother's name. Also, if you go back further there was William Wade born 1844 and married to Mary Kennedy who was French but adopted by the Kennedy family at the age of 3 via the nuns at Rosscrea Abbey who were big into selling babies - did you see the film, Philomena starring Judy Dench? Hope this info helps.

Regards
May
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rmburke on Monday 01 September 14 17:06 BST (UK): I am wondering which church in Ballymena that Rev. Robert Matthews presided over? I am not related, rather Rev. Robert Matthews married my GG Grandfather and his 2nd wife in October of 1846 -- but the church isn't cited -- and it is difficult to locate info on this Pastor -- wondering if anyone might know? Thanks much. Michelle ;D
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 01 September 14 17:33 BST (UK): Wonder if Rev. Matthews of Ballymena Academy is the same man?

MATHEWS [MATTHEWS?] - January 30, at New York, Beresford Mathews, fourth surviving son of the late Rev. Robert Mathews, of the Diocesan School, Ballymena.
http://www.dippam.ac.uk/ied/records/36520

"TheRev. Robert Matthews held office from 1829 to 1847"
http://www.ballymenaacademy.org.uk/History.aspx

More details on this topic-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=316130.0
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: rmburke on Monday 01 September 14 18:11 BST (UK): Thank you! Since I posted a little bit ago, I found that Rev. Robert Matthews was assigned to St. Patrick's COI in Ballymena. And his daughter also named a son Robert Beresford Henry (Donegal Co). He was also cited in the Topicial Dictionary of Ireland, 1837 as being the Master of the Diocesan school of Armagh and Connor. And again found a citation for year 1841 that Rev. Robert Matthews was under clerical surperidence of Rev. William Reeves, D.D. (who also married the daughter Kate Matthews, of Rev Robert Matthews to William Henry, ESQ of Ballyshannon, Donegal County). Michelle
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: redoak on Thursday 30 October 14 23:25 GMT (UK): Does anyone in the Mathews/Mathes line have any *evidence* that a Mathews family from Ballynure took ship to America accompanied by James & Elizabeth Doak and their children ?
The evidence at present, apart from 'it is said' material, is just that a James Doke was a signatory of a 1729 petition in Chester Co, PA
Best wishes
Ralph Doak
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: ChrisPage on Monday 10 November 14 15:03 GMT (UK): Quote from: wyseass on Saturday 19 July 08 17:41 BST (UK)
The information that I have verified is:
My Father was Cecil Peel Beresford Mathews 1931-1991
Grandfather Alfred Henry (born in Antrim) 1897-1951
Greatgrandfather Marcus Beresford 1862-1947
Great-great-grandfather Frederick Albert 1827-?
Great-great-great-grandfather Rev. Robert Mathews 1798-?
It is documented in Father Theobald's biography that Lady Ellisha (who paid for his education) had promised to cover all his debts on her death - however this didn't happen had he had a terrible time trying to pay them off, as he head spent freely on the promise of his inheritance.
"This old lady, who by all accounts was at least as fit for a lunatic asylum as her brother George" (London Times 06/09/1843, left everything to Viscount de Chabot against the express wishes of her brother Francis James 2nd Earl of Llandaff (died 1833), who had left the estate to her. She died 14/12/1841 in her house in Molesworth Street, Dublin.
The family over the years changed their religion to suit the times and to hold onto their title and estates, as was the way in Ireland in those days.

It is good to have found you again Christine.

I just can't seem to fine a link between Robert and Elisha (Elizabeth).

I hope somebody can help.

Hi All,

Having just used the free search on the British Newspaper Archive, we now know the death of Catherine relict of the Rev. Robert Mathews was in 1858 aged 60 yrs in Ballymena. She was the daughter of Isaac Humphreys Esq of Cartown, Queens County, Ireland.

Hope this will help you in your research

Christine
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: jp_long on Tuesday 06 January 15 16:43 GMT (UK): I am coming late to this party but am bringing my great-great grandfather Beresford Mathews with me in the hopes of filling in some holes in the family history and connecting with Mathews kin who may still be living in Ireland.

My Beresford came to America and landed in New York in the mid-1800s. He was living in Brooklyn, New York in 1867 when his first son, Albert was born. The family moved soon afterwards as Albert was baptized in Plainfield, New Jersey in 1868. According to New Jersey state records, Beresford died 1 February 1878 in Plainfield. This date is very close to that given for Rev. Robert Mathews' son Beresford who presumably died in New York 30 January 1878.

My great grandfather was Arthur Bloxon Mathews, the second of four children. I have seen the name Bloxam associated with the family of Rev Robert strengthening my belief that my Beresford was in fact the Rev.'s son.

Beresford's other children included Catherine (named for her grandmother, Elizabeth Catherine Humphries?) and Beresford who died as a child.

Arthur's second son was Beresford Ludlow Mathews and Catherine's first was Leonard Beresford Cox.

I welcome any comments or direction and look forward to connecting with as yet unknown family members.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: jp_long on Tuesday 14 July 15 02:18 BST (UK): Please forgive the American cousin, just trying to get enough posts so I may reply to a PM.
That said, I recently learned that my 2g grandfather, Beresford Mathews, was a mason and member of the Jerusalem Lodge in Plainfield, NJ, USA. Seems it was a family tradition.

Wyseass: It was great to get your message. Will reply as soon as I am able.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 14 July 15 11:41 BST (UK): Glasgow University, MDCCCLII

GEORGIUS DUNCANUS MATHEWS filius unicus Georgii, Scribae Eblanensis

Born at Kilkenny in 1828.
B.A. of Trinity College. Dublin, 1848.
D.D. of Western University of Pennsylvania, 1877.
LL.D. of Westminster College, Newcastle, Penn., 1904.
Minister of (1) the U.P. Church, Stranraer, 1854-68,
(2) Jane Street Presbyterian Church, New York, 1868,
(3) Chalmers' Church, Quebec, 1878.
Professor of Theology in Morrin College there, 1882-88.
American Secretary of the Presbyterian Alliance, 1873-88.
General Secretary thereof, since 1888.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: coralhorton on Tuesday 20 September 16 02:47 BST (UK): I am coming into the discussion late...My Uncle had an old Tree, and on it it says that Ellisha Mathew married secretly and morganatically George Prince of Wales (later George IV). From this union were three children...the middle one names as Robert Fitzwilliam Mathew married to Mary Godfrey....their child is listed as Thomas Mathew married to Sarah Withey from whom I am descended.

I am inclined to dismiss this tree as rubbish even though I was brought up on this story of being related to the Royal family as the dates do not seem to match up. My Thomas being born around 1788 and the relationship between Ellisha and George would have been around 1788, so George could NOT have been my Thomas's grandfather!

But This Tree seems to have been 'sold' to my g grandfather as a legitimate Tree.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: BrotherDead on Monday 26 November 18 08:06 GMT (UK): Quote from: wyseass on Monday 29 September 08 10:48 BST (UK)
The Mathew title became extinct on the death of Francis (second earl) in 1833 and his brothers George and Montaqu - all died childless. According to my records The 2nd Earl (Franicis) had an illegitimate son called Thomas James by his girlfriend Anne West in London. He was married to Gertrude LaTouche, from a famous Dublin banking family.

Good day, all. Wyseass fascinating research. Where did you obtain the record of Thomas James being born to Francis?

Lovely to join you all here.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: jaybelnz on Monday 26 November 18 09:15 GMT (UK): I've only just come across this post, and without wanting to butt in and hijack it, it may well be very helpful for my research! I was born a Mathews, and have been researching my Irish and possibly a Welsh Mathews family connection to the clergy for many years! My Dad had told me that our Mathews family was originally from Ireland and Wales back further, so things in this thread are ringing bells, but I'm going to write up some details over the next few days, things that may make more sense than if I do it now! So I'll get busy with my gentleman Henry Maxwell Mathews Esq, and his wife Sarah Annie "no name", and their offspring!!

Watch this space, but in the meantime, I have an old Scavenger Hunt on RC, take a look, there are a few more details in there!

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=717638.36

Thanks
Jeanne 🌺
NZ
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Daniel Mathew Foley on Tuesday 03 March 20 22:40 GMT (UK): Very interested in continuing this thread, if anyone is out there still monitoring, please chime in!
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:17 GMT (UK): Draft pedigrees of the Mathew family, Earls of Landaff and of Annefield and Thomastown, Co. Tipperary, with correspondence of Geo. B. Mathew to Sir William Betham 1838, with note on Anne Mathew (mother of Nano Nagle) who died Jan., 1748.

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms. 814 (3)
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:19 GMT (UK): Genealogical Office report on Mathew of Wexford, Mathew of Bonnettstown, Co. Kilkenny and Mathew of Thurles and Annefield, c.1600 -- 1850.

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.814(8)
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:20 GMT (UK): above Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.814 ( 8 )
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:23 GMT (UK): Notes of evidence presented in the Chancery Court during a dispute case between George Mathew, Plaintiff, and Joseph Jaques, defendant, concerning lands in Thomastown and Ballymakeady, Co. Tipperary, 1673.

Belfast: Belfast Public Record Office, T.2993
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:25 GMT (UK): Photocopy of notes on the family of Mathew of Wales and Ireland, also pedigree of the family, 12th-19th c., prepared by Robert Mathew, 20th c.

Subjects:
Mathew, family of
Mathew, Robert > M.P., T.D.
Mathew, Theobald > Rev.
Manuscripts > Private Collections

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Ms. 21,718
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:26 GMT (UK): Papers, including estate papers, of the family of Mathew of Radyr and Llandaff, 1607-1893.

Cardiff: Glamorgan Record Office
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:28 GMT (UK): Pedigree of the Mathews family, Co. Down, compiled by J. C. Mathews, c. 1790 - 1900.

Belfast: Belfast Public Record Office, T. 578
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:30 GMT (UK): Pedigree of Mathew of Burres, Co. Tipperary, c.1680 -- c.1775

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.169, p.371
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:34 GMT (UK): Genealogical Office report on Mathews of Gorey, Co. Wexford and Waterford and Montreal, Canada, c.1800 -- 1931 and Bonnettstown, Co. Kilkenny, 1660 -- 1845.

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.814( 7 )
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:47 GMT (UK): National Library staff can make photocopies, printouts, digital images and prints of items in the Collection depending on the size, format and condition of the material. Orders can be placed in person in the Copying Services room, by telephone to +353 1 6030 214, or by email to copy-orders'at'nli.ie.

Price List
Cost
Photocopying €0.50 per opening (one or two pages)
Printout from microfilm €1
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 March 20 23:49 GMT (UK): Self-Service Copying/Photocopying
The National Library’s self-service photocopying facility is available to readers in the Copying Service Room (adjacent to the Main Reading Room).

Cost
Photocopying A4 €0.20 per page
A3 €0.40 per page
Print out from microfilm €0.50 per page (A3 paper)
€0.10 per page (A4 paper)
Photography No charge
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Daniel Mathew Foley on Thursday 05 March 20 22:45 GMT (UK): The preceding dozen or so posts are line by line what is found under the heading "Archival Sources" at the website

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=2768

Not entirely sure why they were posted as they were. Looking forward to continuing the thread with someone who is researching this family, as I have some research priorities I would appreciate help with. I don't live in Dublin though I have visited the National Library and National Archives as well as Thurles, et cetera. I'm familiar with the list of archival sources, but thanks to whomever posted them.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 05 March 20 23:59 GMT (UK): They might be of use to others who are not aware of them plus e.g

Subjects:
Mathew, family of
Mathew, Robert > M.P., T.D.
Mathew, Theobald > Rev.
Manuscripts > Private Collections

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Ms. 21,718

isn't listed there.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Daniel Mathew Foley on Friday 06 March 20 02:14 GMT (UK): In that case, "well done sir!" and thanks.

I'm trying to find out more information on my own ancestor, who I believe was an illegitimate child of the Mathew household - or some part of it. I've done a year of research now and learned so much about the Mathews its pretty crazy.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: AshleyBlay on Friday 02 July 21 11:09 BST (UK): Hi All,

I am unsure if this is still active but upon reading this i believe i may be related to some of you and the ancestors discussed however i have not managed to link them into my own tree yet,

would anyone be able to assist? my father and his side of the family have been absent since i was 2 so i have no information or relatives to get much info from..

this is what i have so far, if anyone could validate and help me trace back further or add to my info i would be very grateful..

My Great Grandfather was Edward H Matthews (1918-1991) m. Joan Ellen Docwra

My GG Grandfather was George Humphries Matthews m. Lilian Christina Langron

My GGG Grandfather was William Henry Dundas Matthews m. Mabella Louisa Davies

My GGGG Grandfather John Matthews (1802-1879) - I have no information further back than him, nor do i have a wife so i have reached a dead end.

I would be grateful for any help if anyone is able to assist

Thank You
Ashley
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 02 July 21 19:03 BST (UK): Quote from: AshleyBlay on Friday 02 July 21 11:09 BST (UK)

My Great Grandfather was Edward H Matthews (1918-1991) m. Joan Ellen Docwra

My GG Grandfather was George Humphries Matthews m. Lilian Christina Langron

Can you confirm for others here that these are the details of these two marriages above?

From https://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Marriage Jan-Mar 1946
Docwra Joan E & Matthews Edward Surrey N.W. 2a 931

Marriage Jul-Sep 1913
Langron Lily C & Matthews George H Holyhead 11b 826

Quote
My GGG Grandfather was William Henry Dundas Matthews m. Mabella Louisa Davies

Marriage 30th August 1864 at Donnybrook Parish Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11618/8277233.pdf

William living in Rathgar, parish of Rathfarnham.
https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/rathdown/rathfarnham/rathfarnham/rathgar/

Mabella living at Mount Sandford House, Cullenswood.
https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/uppercross/st-peters/rathmines-and-rathgar-east/cullenswood/

KG
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: heywood on Friday 02 July 21 19:31 BST (UK): Is this John Matthews death in 1879?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06529/4881515.pdf

If so, There is a newspaper snippet 7th January 1879 which mentions him being the son of ‘the late John Matthews. vicar Choral of St Patrick’s Cathedral’. I can’t work out which John has the title.

However, I searched and this came up - I think these people have posted on this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=707975.0
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: heywood on Friday 02 July 21 19:42 BST (UK): Here is John Matthews in the Calendar of Wills- his widow is named as Margaret
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014894/005014894_00642.pdf
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: AshleyBlay on Sunday 04 July 21 08:43 BST (UK): Quote from: Kiltaglassan on Friday 02 July 21 19:03 BST (UK)
Quote from: AshleyBlay on Friday 02 July 21 11:09 BST (UK)

My Great Grandfather was Edward H Matthews (1918-1991) m. Joan Ellen Docwra

My GG Grandfather was George Humphries Matthews m. Lilian Christina Langron

Can you confirm for others here that these are the details of these two marriages above?

From https://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Marriage Jan-Mar 1946
Docwra Joan E & Matthews Edward Surrey N.W. 2a 931

Marriage Jul-Sep 1913
Langron Lily C & Matthews George H Holyhead 11b 826

Quote
My GGG Grandfather was William Henry Dundas Matthews m. Mabella Louisa Davies

Marriage 30th August 1864 at Donnybrook Parish Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11618/8277233.pdf

William living in Rathgar, parish of Rathfarnham.
https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/rathdown/rathfarnham/rathfarnham/rathgar/

Mabella living at Mount Sandford House, Cullenswood.
https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/uppercross/st-peters/rathmines-and-rathgar-east/cullenswood/

KG

Hi KG,

Those Marriages are correct yes, thanks for the information!

Ashley
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: AshleyBlay on Sunday 04 July 21 08:47 BST (UK): Quote from: heywood on Friday 02 July 21 19:31 BST (UK)
Is this John Matthews death in 1879?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06529/4881515.pdf

If so, There is a newspaper snippet 7th January 1879 which mentions him being the son of ‘the late John Matthews. vicar Choral of St Patrick’s Cathedral’. I can’t work out which John has the title.

However, I searched and this came up - I think these people have posted on this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=707975.0

Hi Heywood,

That sounds about right, I have his death listed as 7th Jan 1879 which would coincide with that newspaper article, however I believe he died on the 5th now, thanks for your help. I need an account to see the records on the irish genealogy so I will create an account later.

Thanks, Ashley
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 04 July 21 09:30 BST (UK): Quote from: AshleyBlay on Sunday 04 July 21 08:47 BST (UK)
I need an account to see the records on the irish genealogy so I will create an account later.

You don't need to create an account. The website has free records both for civil and church - click either box.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

When the Captcha comes up, click it. Then enter a single initial in Section 61 box, click white box and click Submit.

Easy, peasy

KG
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Desertrose920 on Thursday 21 December 23 01:04 GMT (UK): Am I the only one who thinks a movie needs to be made of the Mathews of Thomastown? I descend from James ll the orphan or illegitimate son of Thomas.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Desertrose920 on Wednesday 13 March 24 02:27 GMT (UK): There are no years in dates of these posts! I descend from the sister of Father Theobald Mathews and am trying to work out the exact relationship to Lady Elizabeth Mathews. Theobald father James is said to have been Elizabeth’s uncle. Other sources have James as the illegitimate son of Thomas making him a 1/2 sibling to Elizabeth. I suspect she had children. There is a marriage cert for a Gertrude Mathews to a William Hacker. Present were Lady Elizabeth and her cousin whom she left to castle to. Was she a daughter if Elizabeth?
I would like to chat with other researchers and compare DNA samples.
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 17 March 24 09:41 GMT (UK): Quote from: Desertrose920 on Wednesday 13 March 24 02:27 GMT (UK)
There are no years in dates of these posts!

You haven't provided any dates yourself :-\
Title: Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
Post by: Desertrose920 on Saturday 30 March 24 12:22 GMT (UK): I have since identified Gertrude Mathews who married William Hackett as the daughter of James ll and Ann Mathews, sister to Father Theobald. Note on marriage certificate states “ youngest daughter of James Mathews”. Father Theobald other sisters were Ann Mathews m. William Dunbar ( Freeman Press w/ Fr. Mathews) and Catherine married Michael Lysaght, my line.

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