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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: cmcmull on Sunday 20 July 08 06:42 BST (UK)
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Hello
Can I please request a lookup for James and Jane Cumming born c 1827-1830 James born Glasgow and Jane born Kirkintilloch. In 1900 they lived in Parliamentary Rd Glasgow.
Thanks, Carmel
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Hi Carmel,
Here is the 1891 census....
James Cumming age 62 same birth info
Occupation: Railroad Carter
Living in St.Rollex Parish area of Glasgow at 79 Parliay Ro.
Wife: Jean (Jane used now) age 64, Birth Place now says Kirkintellock,Dumbartonshire.
Children:
Lilias age 21
Occupation: Paper Ruler
No others listed.....Crookedtail
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Hi,
Here the 1901 CENSUS
James Cumming age 72
Occupation: Grace Bery Foreman
Living at: 79 Parliamentary Road Glasgow Martyrs,Lanarkshire
Wife:
Jane S.Cumming age 73 same birth info
Children:
Wife: Lily Craig age 31
Husband: William Craig age 31,Born: Glasgow
Occupation: Tin Smith
Lily and William Craig children
1.Jeannie age 8 born: Glasgow
2.James C Craig age 1 Born: Glasgow
Hope this helps....Crookedtail
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Thanks for your help with this. I thought there would probably be children other than Lily as they were married for years before she was born so now I have Alexander to research also and I suppose he would have moved out before the 1891 census.
Regards, Carmel
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Hi,
I will see what I can come up with to help you find him...
Crookedtail
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Hi,
Think this could be a BIG Possible for Alexander....
Alexander Cumming
Age is 24 (but with the way Census rounded age off and the
time of year it was done it could be him)
Born: Springburn,Glasgow
Occupation: Locomotive Engineer
Living at 17 Elmvale Row
Springburn
Wife:
Ann Age 20,Born: Glasgow
Children:
1. Alexander age 5mo. Born: Springburn
Visitor: (must be family somehow)?
Andrew Cumming age 19,Born:Springburn
Occupation: Locomotive Engineer
Crookedtail
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Yes this would be him. I found the birth record in 1866 so the age of 11 in 1871 must have been an error.
Thanks again, Carmel
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Hi carmel
just joined rootschat saw your message and thought you might be interested in my research as it follows the cumming family who originated from springburn. My gr gr gr gr grandfather was Alexander from springburn he married a Jane Cowan or Govan. Their son (b 1834) also named Alexander married Margaret Grey from England. They had a son also Alexander (b 1855) married Margaret Tait. They had 5 children (at least) - Elizabeth (lizzie); Alex; John; George; Christopher. Finally, Lizzie gave birth to my grandmother Frances Agnes 1917. Don't know if any of these links to your info, however I thought they could be related with being from the same place. Let me know if you find anything.
Clare.
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Hello Clare
My research of Cumming family only starts with James born c 1829 who married Jane Semple. I'm researching the Semple family maternal line of Cuthell so unable to help with anything further on Cumming line. I don't have parents names so James could also be a son of your Alexander since it was usually 3rd son who was named after the father and older sons named after their grandfathers.
Regards Carmel
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Hi Carmel,
Could this be your Jane??????? ??? ??? ???remember Jane and Jean can be same name.
Jean Semple
Born: April 14,1827
Place: Bonhill, Dumbartonshire,Scotland
Parents: James Semple Father
Janet Steel Mother
ALSO..............................
MARRIAGE:
James Cumming ..Husband
Jean Semple..Wife
Date: Dec 30,1859
Place: Old Monkland,Lanarkshire,Scotland
Found: Family Search
Will keep looking for you on other things...what do you need?
Crookedtail
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Hi
The marriage is hers but the birth is not. Her parents were Walter Semple and Margaret Cuthell. I haven't got Jean/Jane in 1851 census as she was not with family in Kirkintilloch and had not married then, so don't know where she was.
Regards, Carmel
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Hi,
I have tried all over everywhere I can think of and can't
find her with those parents...In fact cant find such people
together on census or anything....
My suggestion is to order the marriage and see what that
says and if her parents are died then you can search on SP
for that...I have check out Ireland,England,Scotland on one...
Maybe someone with a new outlook can help but I am lost...
what a brickwall...Crookedtail
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Her mother Margaret died at Kirkintilloch in 1847, Her father died Jun 1861. He is on 1841 - 1861 census Handloom weaver and then Greenwich pensioner at Eastside St Kirkintilloch. In 1841 Mary, Jean, James and Marion were home with parents, 1851 Mary, Margaret and Margaret's eldest child were there plus another child possibly illegitimate daughter of Mary or Margaret, 1861 Margaret with 5 children and youngest daughter Marion were home with father. There is a son John born 1823 who I haven't found in 1851 but he was married at Old Monkland in 1850 and there in 1852 so probably there somewhere in 1851 also. A daughter Ann was in Kirkintilloch 1841 but in another household as servant. I have her later details with family in Glasgow. Youngest son James disappears after 1841 census. He would have been abt 14 when his mother died so may have moved away for work or died young. Most of the later details I've traced because of numerous people mentioned in a will and court case that I have details of. There was no one there who could be descendant of James but there is also no mention of family of Marion and I have found them so missing from the will doesn't necessarily mean he died without family. There are four other children also born to Walter and Margaret who I have nothing on other than birth on IGI and I think they all died young at Kirkintilloch. They are fairly distant relatives so I'm not too worried about those I can't find. My main interest in them came about because of the court case over the will which went on for many years and involved family in 3 continents. If you do find any more leads I'd be very pleased but don't worry too much about those that can't be found.
Regards, Carmel
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Eight years later, but if possible can anyone tell me where to find the census entry below? I have looked online and not been able to find this census entry for 1891. At Scotland's People I see an 1888 marriage entry for an Alexander Cumming and Annie Clyde in Calton. I don't know if that is the correct entry or not.
The Alexander Cumming, son of James Cumming b1829, was born Jul 13, 1866 in Springburn according to the birth record.
Thank you.
Hi,
Think this could be a BIG Possible for Alexander....
Alexander Cumming
Age is 24 (but with the way Census rounded age off and the
time of year it was done it could be him)
Born: Springburn,Glasgow
Occupation: Locomotive Engineer
Living at 17 Elmvale Row
Springburn
Wife:
Ann Age 20,Born: Glasgow
Children:
1. Alexander age 5mo. Born: Springburn
Visitor: (must be family somehow)?
Andrew Cumming age 19,Born:Springburn
Occupation: Locomotive Engineer
Crookedtail
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Hi Bruce,
The 1891 was most likely a transcription from one of the commercial sites.
Annie
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Here it is...for James (not Alexander)
Here is the 1891 census....
James Cumming age 62 same birth info
Occupation: Railroad Carter
Living in St.Rollex Parish area of Glasgow at 79 Parliay Ro.
Wife: Jean (Jane used now) age 64, Birth Place now says Kirkintellock,Dumbartonshire.
Children:
Lilias age 21
Occupation: Paper Ruler
No others listed.....Crookedtail
Annie
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I have been unable to find the 1891 census entry for Alexander Cumming b1866 (the other entries are easier to find). I have checked Ancestry.com and Family Search records. At Scotland's People I can't find a definitive record and I don't want to burn up 5 credits at a time sequentially checking all possible entries :)
The original posting of the information did not include the census district.
Thanks for checking.
Hi Bruce,
The 1891 was most likely a transcription from one of the commercial sites.
Annie
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I can't see that entry on SP or A/try either :-\ Springburn should show in the St Rollox reg district on SP for those years I think (1874-1900).
Monica
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Bruce, the marriage you came across to an Ann Clyde. There is a family tree for this couple here
http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/75833878/person/46369803974/facts which takes them out of the equation I think. From that tree, this Alexander shows as a blacksmith.
Can't see that family on the 1891 census either!
Monica
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Thanks for checking Monica and ruling out the Alexander - Ann Clyde connection. I also saw an 1891 census entry for an Alexander Cumming in St Rollox. I downloaded that from SP but it is a different Alexander (wife is Agnes and he was born in Edinburgh).
Bruce, the marriage you came across to an Ann Clyde. There is a family tree for this couple here
http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/75833878/person/46369803974/facts which takes them out of the equation I think. From that tree, this Alexander shows as a blacksmith.
Can't see that family on the 1891 census either!
Monica
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We were in the right area of St Rollox...but sadly for Alexander's death at the age of 19 from heart disease in 1885 :-\
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Hi Bruce, Which Cumming family are you descended from? I can see that you were after the information on Alexander & Ann from 1891 census which was attached to a query I sent many years ago. I have not done any work on this branch of my husband's family for a long time but do have records on my computer for the family of James and Jean/Jane Cumming who lived at 79 Parliamentary Road, St Rollex, Glasgow if you are looking for that.
Carmel
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Thank you Monica for this find! Quite conclusive with the parent names, age and address all matching. This Alexander was a bookbinder apprentice.
We were in the right area of St Rollox...but sadly for Alexander's death at the age of 19 from heart disease in 1885 :-\
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Actually my connection goes back a few generations. My direct line came to Canada in the 1840s. However I had not been able to find any of these Cumming cousins left in Scotland who produced much offspring. I am interested to see "who is left". An interesting will I found recently helped tie a lot of info together.
The common most recent ancestors are James Cumming 1742-1829 and Mary Reid in Cathkin. My direct ancestor that came to Canada was their son James Cumming 1789-1846 and Agnes Craig. Several of their children came to Canada with them. A couple of the other siblings that stayed in Scotland died without being married or having issue.
The sibling of James b1789 of interest here is Alexander Cumming b1791. He had children (that I can find) James Cumming b1829 and Margaret Cumming b1833, both in Barony.
James b1829 married Jean or Jane Semple Dec 30, 1859 and had children Alexander b1866 (and we now know died 1885) and Lilias b1869 and later married a Craig.
One will I downloaded from SP yesterday has me confused - it is for a James Cumming who died in 1912 living at 148 Albert Street. Occupation is listed as carter. The executor was his sister, widow Jane Prophet. I though this might be the will for James b1829 and married to Jean/Jane Semple. But of course I can find no info on Jane Prophet to confirm ...
Thank you.
Hi Bruce, Which Cumming family are you descended from? I can see that you were after the information on Alexander & Ann from 1891 census which was attached to a query I sent many years ago. I have not done any work on this branch of my husband's family for a long time but do have records on my computer for the family of James and Jean/Jane Cumming who lived at 79 Parliamentary Road, St Rollex, Glasgow if you are looking for that.
Carmel
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One will I downloaded from SP yesterday has me confused - it is for a James Cumming who died in 1912 living at 148 Albert Street. Occupation is listed as carter. The executor was his sister, widow Jane Prophet. I though this might be the will for James b1829 and married to Jean/Jane Semple. But of course I can find no info on Jane Prophet to confirm ...
Probably the best way forward on this one is to look at the 1912 death cert for this James on SP. There are 3 showing in Glasgow that year, one born c. 1830 which would fit. Did James have a sister Jane?
Can't see any marriage between a Jane/Jean Cumming and a Prophet on SP though to help further.
Jane Semple/Cumming died 1906 in St Rollox? There is a death in 1907 for a James Cumming b. 1829 in St Rollox. This might be a better fit...
Monica
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Bruce, according to my file, James Cumming, husband of Jean Semple, died at 79 Parliamentary Rd, Glasgow on 6 Nov 1907.
When you mention wills, have you seen the Cuthell vs Cubitt court case based on will of John Cuthell. This is reason I know about the Cummings. John Cuthell died 1828 and court case was still going in 1903.
Below is a small group of the claimants closely related to Jean Semple ie siblings or their descendants
Descendants assumed from court papers re will of John Cuthell -
Janet McNee of 35 Cameron Street Hope Hill Road, Glasgow widow was entitled to grant of letters of administration to estate of John Semple.
Margaret married ? Miller - Margaret Telford of 55 Raplock Street Larkhall, Lanark widow entitled to grant of letters of administration to estate of Margaret Miller widow deceased
Jane married James Cumming - of 79 Parliamentary Road, Glasgow
Ann married Watson - of 148 Slateford Street, Dennistown, Glasgow (widow in Nov 1903)
My husband is descended from Andrew Cuthell and Mary Agnes Cubitt so I had this long list of people wanting a share of the estate of John Cuthell and had to work out where they all fitted into the family. I have plenty of information on them if you care to give me an email I will forward some details when I get back home again. Today leaving town and my good internet so won't be for a week or so.
Cheers, Carmel
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Is this a typo;
John Cuthell died 1828 and court case was still going in 1903.
Annie
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No there is no typo. John Cuthell died in London in 1828. He had no children. He left his estate to his wife and nephew Andrew Cuthell who had worked with him in his business.
This is a portion of the will of his widow Ann
I this day March 20th 1843 having heard that some doubts exist as to the wording of my late husband's will whether one third of his property at my decease devolve and be the property of the heirs and executors of my late husband's nephew the late Andrew Cuthell in which case as Mr. Cuthell's widow a portion appertains to myself should that be so then I give and bequeath all the sums or property so accruing to me at my decease to my late husband's great nephew Andrew Cuthell who lives with Mr. Cubitt at Clapham as a great deal of his time has been paid to the arranging my late husband's affairs since my husband's decease without any compensation being paid to him for so doing and in case any doubts arise at my decease and to present law proceedings respecting the wording of this will and codicil I nominate my friend Mr. Thomas Cubitt as the sole arbitrator and decider of any questions at issue or of any difficulties or doubts that my arise
Ann Cuthell Turnham Green
Ann Cuthell died in 1847 and it seems that the American branch of the Cuthell family then decided to start court proceedings. There are a lot of newspaper entries referring to the case and it dragged on for more than 50 years.
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Thanks to you and MonicaL for pointing out that James Cumming died 1907. I guess there were two James Cummings with occupation carter.
Carmel, I have sent a PM for the information you have offered. Thank you very much.
Bruce, according to my file, James Cumming, husband of Jean Semple, died at 79 Parliamentary Rd, Glasgow on 6 Nov 1907.
(snip)
I have plenty of information on them if you care to give me an email I will forward some details when I get back home again. Today leaving town and my good internet so won't be for a week or so.
Cheers, Carmel