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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Tissy on Wednesday 06 August 08 05:43 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I am trying to trace what became of two BHC who were sent to Canada on the Siberian which left Liverpool on 12th June 1906 and arrived in Halifax on 23rd June 1906. There were 159 Home Children on that ship including Clara Hampton aged 8 and her sister Harriet aged 7, two of the daughters of John Hampton and Mary Ann nee Drayford who originated in Wolverhampton.
I am unable to find Clara or Harriet on the 1911 Canadian Census. I am assuming (dangerous, I know) that they went to the Fairview Home, Halifax on arrival, as I found them listed on the Middlemore site.
Apart from the shipping records I can find no trace of them and I am hoping that some kind Rootschatter may be able to give me some tips on where I should look next. These Hampton girls are driving me to distraction, I am actually looking for a Helen Mary Hampton who married here in Australia for the second time in 1924. On her Marriage Cert. she lists her parents as the same as for Clara and Harriet but I cannot find a birth or baptism for her, interestingly enough she was the same age as Harriet!! Could Harriet have had her Christian names changed as well as her Surname? Tis a puzzlement, so any help anyone could give me on what would have been likely to have happened to Clara and Harriet would be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Tissy ???
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Hi Tissy,
There is a Hattie Hampton, born England, who married Ernest Smith in Nova Scotia in 1922. Hattie does not know the names of her parents, as she was adopted by Middlemore Home.
You can see the marriage certificate here https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/ItemView.aspx?ImageFile=31-812&Event=marriage&ID=161914 it's free to view
Karen
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On the 1911 census, there is this Clara McLean, who was born 1897 England and is adopted. She is living in the same place that Hattie married in Nova Scotia, could be your Clara :-\
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=69601
Karen
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Hi Karen,
Thank you so much for that information, it gives me a bit more to work on. If Hattie had married a "Bull" instead of a Smith, then I would have known she was the one I am after. Oddly enough, Helen Mary married a "Smith" here in 1924.
I'll crack this one yet, thanks once again for your help Karen.
Regards,
Tissy :)
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You were right in thinking it was middlemore, as the 2 are in the database...
Hampton, Clara - age 8 - b. May 16 - arr 1906 Siberean
Hampton, Harriet - age 7- b. August 22 - arr 1906 Siberean
http://www.bifhsgo.ca/special_projects/home_children/Middlemore-Index/H-Index.htm
However, they have Clara as having married a "Smith"
SMITH Clara (Mrs)..."See HAMPTON, Clara"
http://www.bifhsgo.ca/special_projects/home_children/Middlemore-Index/S-Index.htm
Then they have these two
MacAulay Clara "See HAMPTTON, Clara"
MacAulay Harriet (Mrs Harry) "See HAMPTON, Harriet"...
http://www.bifhsgo.ca/special_projects/home_children/Middlemore-Index/Mc-Index.htm
so you may find that it was mixed up and Harried married a Harry MacAulay
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http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=69606&highlight=4
a Harry McAuley, also adopted...in same area as the two Hampton girls...If this is he, and he was also a home chil...then wonder wha HIS real name may have been ( no immigration information on census, says born N.S.) :-\ J.J.
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I think I counted 41 adopted children in 1911 census of Whycocomagh Village alone..Many of whom were also adopted by otherMcLean families...How marvelous that they were adopted, but how sad that they lost their first identity....
also some do say immigrated from____ but few have a date...Also for Clara there is a birth date written, but they dittoed from the birth date above it.......I think it was , however, a small dash... The actual birthdates given to middlemore homes were listed on the page....I've added those dates to my first entry above... ( there is also a weird year date before the birth dates...perhaps thos are the dates in which they were put into the homes before being sent here...
Making note of these things for future reference, as I will link to this thread from the Resource page for Home children... J.J.
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Might your Helen Mary have been split with the other children
Middlemore were associated with Fairbridge Farm School , Pinjarra Australia.
Is there a resource board for Australian home children?
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Wow, I only found a few home children inquiries...I wonder if we can turn up some resources in Aus...???
There is this address :
The "Fairbridge" Foundation
Trust Building
155 King Street
Sydney
NSW 2000
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Hi J.J.,
Thank you so very much for the wealth of information you have given me. Firstly, I am not absolutely sure at this stage that this Clara and Harriet are the ones that I am looking for. I had made a fatal assumption that there would not be four children of the same names and ages born in the same area, however a very alert Rootschatter pointed out via a PM that in fact there were two Clara Hamptons born on Wolverhampton, one in the Dec 1/4 of 1896 and one in the June 1/4 of 1898. The 1898 one fits with both the 1901 Census and the shipping records.
This kind lady also pointed out that there were two Harriet Hamptons born in Wolverhampton, both in the December 1/4 of 1898, Vol 6b, pages 585 & 598, so either could be mine, or just possibly, the same entry could have been made twice. A really curly one that, however, the age again fits with the 1901 Census and the shipping records. Rest assured that I will note forget the check & check again rule ever again.
Now that brings us to the birth dates on the Middlemore Index, Clara's would be correct for the 1898 birth in the June 1/4 but Harriets is down as b August 22 which would not fit with the Dec 1/4. It would not fit in as the date of the admittance unless they were admitted in 1905, as the Siberian left Liverpool on 12 June 1906 and arrived in Halifax on June 23rd. My sincere apologies for rabbiting on like this, sorting these two out is driving me crazy.
As to Helen Mary, the only information I have on her is when she married Frank Smith in Sydney on the 3rd of December 1924. She was recorded as Helen Mary Bull, Widow, born Wolverhampton, England. Her Parents were listed as John Hampton, Hotel Keeper, and Mary Drayford. As I can't find any record of her coming out here under Bull or Hampton in the time frame I was looking at (family stories have it that her husband was killed in WW1 or died from woulds sustained therein), I had only looked between 1914 and 1924. I will definitely widen my search now and look for her coming as a Home Child. Thank you very much for that J.J., your help is very much appreciated.
I will certainly look into all the sites I can find regarding BHC in Australia and let you know. I did a quick Google a couple of days ago and there seems to be quite a bit.
Thank you once again for all your invaluable help.
Regards,
Tissy :-[ :) :)
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That is too bad...oh, well, stuff happens...and all will be here once you get back on track... Let us know when you have it all sorted!
:D J.J.
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I had a look at Australia Recordsearch, and found a John Felix Bull, whose wife is listed as Mary Helen. He died in 1919.
The name of his wife seems to be changed around a lot. At least once (page 21), she is listed as Helen Mary Bull (then residing in Brixton, England).
Page 27 has the marriage certificate! Dated 15 October 1917, at Christ Church, North London, Helen Mary Hampton, father John Hampton (dec.), hotel-keeper, m. John Felix Bull. He says he is a bachelor.
There are a few mentions (i.e. page 73, page 76 which is hand-written by her) of his widow, her address being c/o "Mrs Smith". She appeared to be at that address in 1922, asking about his war medals, etc, but they later could not find her (and wrote to John's mother asking for a new address for her).
There's lots of details of page 7 about various changes of next of kin. His wife is listed as 'M E' as well as 'M H' and I can see an address in Weymouth and maybe one in Kent for her?
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Awesome, jorose! You're good! ;D J.J.
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Hi Jorose,
Your blood is worth bottling, you are not only awesome, you are down right WONDERFUL and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
You have given me a wealth of information, can I please beg one more favour? Could you please tell me how to get onto this Australian Recordsearch. The only one I was aware of was The Nat. Archives but there is only one file on there for John Felix Bull and it's not avaiable to view on the net. Also, that particular gentleman was born in Newcastle, NSW, Australia.
All the information you have fits with the little we know about Helen Mary, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mrs Smith referred to is her. The Frank Smith she married in 1924 was a sailor and he obviously got around.
I am actually doing this research for a friend, he is a Grandson of Helen Mary and Frank Smith, but I don't think he will be as excited by your information as I am.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Regards,
Tissy ;D :D :D ;D
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Hi Jorose,
Before you scratch your head and wonder just what sort of idiot you are dealing with, please accept my humble apologies. I have just gone back into the Nat. Archives record search and had a proper look and this time I found the digital copy that you were refering to.
The only thing that I can possibly say in my defence is that I was so excited when I opened up all your information, that the brain was not functioning as quickly as the eyes or the fingers. I am definitely feeling like a "silly old moo".
Thank you so much once again Jorose.
A very embarrassed, humbled Tissy. ::) :-[
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http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2745140
No details other than rank & infantry for John Felix Bull...not even an age :'( J.J.
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I know you aren't looking for this, but here was his age at enlistment, as an Illawarra Volunteer - age 30 in 1916, occupation bootmaker...( says he was single at time of enlistment)
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~viv/volunteers/b.htm
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Hi J.J.,
Thanks for that. I have had a ball looking through his file that Jorose found, he appears to have been a bit of a lad. I have also found his birth in Newcastle, NSW in1886 # 29416, Father Frederick, Mother Mary. I have found a marriage of a John F Bull to an Elizabeth Gilchrist in Sydney in 1915, could be him as there is only one John F Bull listed in the births and the marriages, it wouldn't surprise me.
Having read the file thoroughly I have the feeling that I may have finally found the elusive Helen Mary Hampton. As I said previously I have been unable to find a trace of her birth, however the oldest child of John Hampton and Mary Drayford was Mary Ellen Hampton b Wolverhampton Sept.1/4 1891. (The Ellen is after John's Mother, sounds like Helen doesn't it). Her age as stated at her marriage to John Bull in 1917 was 24 which almost fits with Mary Ellen's. The age she gives on her marriage to Frank Smith 7 years later on 3rd Dec. 1924 is 27, it does not compute. The age given on her death on 12th July 1958 is 58. Me thinks she may have told a few porkies.
A lot more work to do here but now, thanks to you guys, I have many more leads. Helen Mary, Mary helen, Mary E., appears to have been living with her future Mother In Law here in NSW in 1922 so that narrows down the search time but I still can't find her coming over. I will have to see if I can get the ships manifest for the Katoomba, the ship that carried John back to Australia in Sept. 1919 and see if perchance she was allowed to accompany him.
Thank you all once again for all your amazing help, I haven't forgotten about the BHC to Australia, when I can clear the decks just a little I will see what I can find this end.
Many Many Thanks.
Regards,
Tissy :)
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Perhaps someone can do a lookup for you if they have a subscription to the site
An M.E. Hampton from London to Sydney Australia in 1908 age unknown...
There as also an unknown first name age unknown in 1908...
and a very large number of unknown ages & first names under other surnames
in 1908 between same ports...so it would be worth looking into
http://www.findmypast.com/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action
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Hi J. J.,
Thanks for that, I have a subscription to Findmypast and I have been through it time and again, looking under Hampton, Bull & Smith but to no avail. From the Nat Archives file we now know that Mary was in Brixton in 1917 when she married John and that she was (presumably) residing with her future Mother In Law "Mrs Smith", here in 1922, so sometime between those years is when she must have come out here.
I am just about to ring the Australian War Memorial to ask them if by any chance Mary would have been able to accompany John back here on the "Katoomba" in 1919. If she did, that would explain why she doesn't appear on outward shipping from the UK or any Inward Passenger Lists that I have been able to find here.
Thanks once again for all your help, I'll let you know what I find.
Regards,
Tissy :) :)
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Hi J.J.,
I've been in touch with the Australian War Memorial and it is quite possible that Helen Mary came over on a troop ship, so it looks like a trip to Canberra is in order to look throught the records.
From all the information that everyone has given me here it seems apparent that Clara and Harriet are not "Helen" and it would appear that she was in fact Mary Ellen. A lot more to do but at least, thanks to you all I have much more to go on. You have also made it a lot easier to start tracking what happened to Clara and Harriet. Now it is time to at least try and return the favour.
I have found the following sites that may be of help to BHC here in Australia. One of the best that I have used before is "Clan", Care Leavers of Australia Network at http://www. clan.org.au/htmlpage . There is another site I came across that has a small list of BHC that came out on the SS Maloja in 1951. It is on Beryl Thompson's site, http://www.pcug.org.au/~bthompso/
There is also, www.origins.com, The Benevolent Society Resource Centre http://www.bensoc.asn.au/parc, and also http://www.coraweb.com.au/child.htm This site has links to quite a few other sites.
I have had dealings relating to my own family with The Department of Human Services in Victoria and they were extremely helpful. Their address is 16th Floor, Transport House, 589 Collins Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3000. Other states have similar services and the National Archives of Australia and the National Library of Australia also have information relating to Home Children. The Fairbridge Society hade a farm at Molong, NSW as well as the site in WA. They catered for at least 170 BHC there ao that may be worth a look as well.
If I came up with any more info I will drop you another line.
Thanks once again to all of you for all your help.
Regards,
Tissy
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Thank you so much, Tissy...Please let us know how things are going with the search...As you know, I have linked to this thread from the British Home Children Resources...as they still might be the home children. Also the other 2 may get researched & if so they will find this page and let you in on their Clara & Harriet...
Best of luck with your searches...I will add a link to this reply as well as a resource in Australia...many thanks for that!
all the best, J.J.
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Hi .... I have just discovered this site while searching Harriet Hampton. Harriet (Hattie) was my maternal grandmother! She and her sister Clara came to the community of Whycocomagh, Cape Breton. They grew up in different homes but were raised knowing each other as sisters :). Hattie married my grandfather Bayne Smith in 1922 and had 14 children. My mother, Jessie, was their third child. Clara married Harry MacAulay and had 3 children.
I was so thrilled to see some info on them on this site!
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Hello PhyllisM and welcome to Rootschat! I have let Tissy know there is an answer from you, although not sure if she is still active....she's not been on here for quite some time...
in the meantime here is a little bit of info, although you may already have it.
Births Registered for them in Wolverhampton District - ( Vol 6b )
HAMPTON, MARY ELLEN 1891 Sept Quarter p.598
HAMPTON, ELIZA 1892 Dec Quarter p.571
HAMPTON, JOSEPH 1894 March Quarter p. 633
HAMPTON, ALICE 1895 Dec Quarter p.577
HAMPTON, JOHN 1897 March Quarter p.646
HAMPTON, CLARA 1898 June Quarter p. 644
HARRIET-Not Found
HAMPTON, ANNIE 1903 Dec Quarter p 603
Found here, you can also order the birth cert: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
FreeBmd https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
1901 census has no John Jr. so perhaps death Jun Q.1897, Hampton, John Stoke T. vol. 6b p. 131
Llangollen Rural (Denbigh), Merionethshire, Wales Reg District: Corwen Res: Boat Ship & Canal
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X919-YZH
Found Baptisms for 5 of the 7...er 8 i guess?...( first & last child & "Harriet" not listed here )
Also that Harriet not listed as such on the GRO, ( the two results in 1899 have other mothers listed, unless they made a mistake? ) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lw0/
The Canada Archives records http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lw2/
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Thanks JJ :) I am so excited to be reading all this info. Can you tell me if all the Hamptons listed were siblings. My grandmother Harriet and her sister Clara came to Canada in 1906 on the Siberean from the Middlemore Orphanage. We do know that she did have a brother Joe. If these are their siblings it is my family's first time seeing them!
My grandmother was born on August 22, 1899. She was told that she was born in Southhampton. Is that different from Wolverhampton?
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The Birth registers I listed above show the mothers surname, so yes, they are siblings. I didn't find the birth reg. for Harriet. It looks as though only the 2 girls came to Canada as BHC. I did send a private message to the poster of this thread, Tissy, as she appears to have more information which she could share with you, but perhaps no longer uses that email. I only have access to the 1901 on family search but of course if you ask for help someone can find you more information on the family. J.J.
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PhyllisM, apologize that I didn't see your last question...As you can see by the baptisms & census they were said to have been born Wolverhampton, Staffordshire. However he was mobile as the census proves, so some may have been only registered there, but Southampton is a great deal further away than Nantwich or Llangollen. She may have spent some time in Southampton before heading here & remembered that?... I imagine a little girl would not remember much from the trauma of being uprooted from family. I see the father died somewhere between 1903 & 1905 although I see no death? He might also have left her and it may have been easier to say he was dead. MANY wives stated widow although the husband could be found on census. Either way, she was left with no breadwinner & many children.
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So no reply from Tissy...I did private message her in case notification was off.
So you may want to venture onto the Staffordshire board and ask them for help looking for the rest of the family living after 1901. Please tell them you have the two children in Canada and the one in Australia, & would like more information on the remaining siblings ....List the children ( You can copy the birth reg info I gave you ) and give them this topic url: ( copy & paste) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=319634.0
also add the url to the 1901 census from my post above.
You may want to add their last known address , according to the BHC records "in lodging, 21 Beaumont St., Wolverhampton"
Don't forget to thank all who help as they give all their time for free for the joy of genealogy, and their love & respect of the memory of our wee BHC
Put something into the subject line such as ...searching for relatives of British Home Children
Here is where you post
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/staffordshire-lookup-requests/?action=post
If you make a mistake or want to add something .... the post can be modified within a day or so?
Most of all, enjoy... all the best J.J.
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Joseph Hampton - born 2 January 1894 - Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
passed away 17 November 1960 - Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland.
Hampton Joseph - Drayford
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in Wolverhampton Volume 06B Page 633
HAMPTON Joseph 66 Newcastle T. 1b 87 - Registered December 1960.
Married Elizabeth Potts - Q2 1915 (April/May/June) Gateshead County Durham England. 10a 1913
Hampton Joseph Potts Gateshead 10a 1913
Potts Elizabeth Hampton Gateshead 10a 1913
Elizabeth Potts - born 24 February 1895 - Gateshead, Durham, England
passed away 24 July 1970 - Longbenton, Northumberland - aged 75 years. 1 b 869
HAMPTON Elizabeth 24Fe1895 Nthmblnd S 1b 869 - Registered September 1970.
Couple had 3 daughters and 2 sons.
Sandra
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Hi Sandra! ;D I saw that marriage & death, but there were so many other Joseph Hamptons. How did you confirm those are the same Joseph? ( I had seen an 1893 Sunderland birth for a Joseph )
Can you see the rest of the family in the next census? There is already a pauper Mary Ann 1901 Wolverhampton. Did you see any of the other children anywhere 1911 on?
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Hi, JJ
I have just come across these posts on the 'British Home Children In Nova Scotia' and searches for Clara and Harriet Hampton. My mother Amy Hampton would have been a distant cousin of the two girls Clara and Harriet. I have been researching the various parts of the family for the last 20 years. I have recently made contact with a number of other researchers in the last year who have helped in finalising what happened to the two girls. They were the children of John Hampton (1870-1901) and Mary Ann Drayford (1871-1951). John and his family worked on the canals as did his father Absalom and his grandfather William before him. John died in in 190l and the family got into difficulties. Clara and Harriet were taken into care and passed on to the Middlemore Children's Home. A picture exists of their departure to the the Fairview Home in Nova Scotia, Canada. Their brother, Joseph was placed in a Dr Barnardo's Home. He eventually ended up in Newcastle on Tyne and worked as a Waterman for the Tyne Commission. Eliza their eldest sister is tracked to London and marries an Australian Soldier.
Eliza sailed out to Australia with her new son after her husband was demobbed. Unfortunately she died in 1920. To end quickly, I have been in touch with David Smith, the son of Harriet (Hampton) and Ernest Bayne Smith Bayne Smith. Pleased to pass on further information or contact researchers who have posted on this forum in the past.
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Welcome to Rootschat, warwick16. My notification had been turned off for this topic, sorry. Happens sometimes when the site gets busy. Below is a link to the Home Children Database. Scroll down past all the distractions, ads & such and you'll see at the bottom you can enter a surname to search for. If there is nothing about the children you, or other researchers can enter their data.
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/dbsig/dbsig-quick-search.php?dbsig_num=1#top_data
My goodness but people must have trouble finding information with everything so irrelevant & busy at the top visible part of the page. I guess ads are necessary to keep the site running, but I'd think there was nothing valid to see if I came upon these pages from an outer source.
adding: Just checked and I see you have them with ship entries only... if you want to enter more about them here is a link
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/dbsig/dbsig-add.php?dbsig_num=1#top_data
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Hi JJ
Thanks very for the reply and information. I will give it a go.