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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: atth2o on Wednesday 06 August 08 16:14 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
Just a few questions about burials. I have recently found two cases of children born and died in the first quarter of a year and then buried in December of that year. These were different families.
Sources of births and deaths is the Free BMD.
Sources of burial is the KFHS CD #7.
Why would the burials be so late after the death?
Was this unusual?
Where was the body kept till the burial?
Thanks for looking at my enquiry,
Nancy
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That does sound unusual and, frankly, rather alarming!
What dates are we talking about? Do you know anything about the deaths (e.g. unusual circumstances meriting an inquest)?
I've only ever seen a short delay (weeks at most) in the depths of winter (pre-20th century) when the ground was too frozen to dig a grave. I've never seen an example of a delay of the length you mention or one extending through the summer months.
Anna
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Here's the details:
Free BMD: Births Mar 1905, Twist Gilbert Faversham 2a 1006
Free BMD: Deaths Mar 1905 Twist Gilbert 0 Faversham 2a 627
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KFHS CD #7 - Faversham Burials:
396, 1905 01-Dec, TWIST Gilbert, 2 d, Faversham, C-179, Son of Henry R. and Effield E.
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Free BMD: Births Jun 1923 Twist Phyllis M (Ellis) Faversham 2a 1782
Free BMD: Deaths Jun 1923 TWIST Phyllis M 0 Faversham 2a 1012
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KFHS CD #7 - Faversham Burials:
3145, 1923 04-Dec, TWIST Phyllis Margaret, 13 d, Faversham, A-346, Dau. of Sydney J. and Bridget.
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Hope that helps. By the way, Sydney is the son of Henry and Effield from the first entry.
Nancy
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That is really strange Nancy.
The ages at death do not tally either. Could there be 2 families with similar forenames? Or could someone have slipped up on the transcription?
Barbara
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That is really strange Nancy.
The ages at death do not tally either. Could there be 2 families with similar forenames? Or could someone have slipped up on the transcription?
Barbara
The ages at death (2 days and 13 days respectively) do seem to tally.
The whole thing is just bizarre :o I can't think of any explanation.
Anna
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Hi Again,
That is why I am asking. Seems really strange to me. I can only hope that they were indeed buried sooner and possibly a ceremony took place on that date. Grasping at straws though.
Nancy ???
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Sorry, I read the small "d" as meaning died rather than days!
Barbara
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A bit late sorry :'(
Could it be down to weather?
Although 40 years later, I know that someone died in Liverpool, I think it was 1964 a man died and it took 3 months before he could be buried because the ground was solid after snow, ice etc and grave diggers couldnt dig.
No electrical diggers in them days ;)
Maybe that was the reason then?
Mel
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Hi Mel,
That thought had crossed my mind but the deaths took place in the Spring and Summer months and the burials in December.
It would be interesting if someone had access to the actual burial archives and could look at the details.
One other thought is that the dates have been mixed up from numbers to words:
1905 01-Dec, TWIST Gilbert (Possibly January 12, 1905)
1923 04-Dec, TWIST Phyllis Margaret (Possibly April 12, 1923)
This would make the Death Registrations work. If that is the case, how much of the CD is incorrect? ???
Nancy
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Hi Nancy
Having just read your post I have just looked at the KFHS CD 02/07 and I neither can make up my mind about the listings, as the dates for Faversham, Kent Cemetery Burial Records are all over the place. Perhaps contacting KFHS might help with an explanation to the way burials have been listed/transcribed. They may be unaware of any problems.
Regards
bkaw
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Seems strange that both the burials would have been in December so long after date of death. Just a guess but could the burial entries be read this way:
KFHS CD #7 - Faversham Burials:
396, 1905 01-Dec, TWIST Gilbert, 2 d, Faversham, C-179, Son of Henry R. and Effield E.
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KFHS CD #7 - Faversham Burials:
3145, 1923 04-Dec, TWIST Phyllis Margaret, 13 d, Faversham, A-346, Dau. of Sydney J. and Bridget.
Gilbert TWIST buried 1905 01 [Jan.] Dec.[deceased] which would fit with death registration in Jan./March quarter 1905.
Phyllis Margaret TWIST buried 1923 04 [April] Dec. [deceased] which would fit with death registration in Apr./June quarter 1923.
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Hi aghadowey,
I have checked the headings in the individual columns to see what they say. With regards to the headings the date is listed as Year / Date. There is no mention of a separate date for death.
As this is a transcription of Faversham Burials, I would have to say that it is the burial date with no mention of the actual death. I would have never picked up on this if I didn't also trace the Free BMD deaths.
You may still be correct. I am hoping that someone with access to the burial information other than the CD could check. It would be nice to know if there is an error in the transcriptions.
Thanks for your time,
Nancy
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Hi All,
In an effort to try to figure this out, I checked a few more of my deaths in Faversham Vs the death registrations.
It looks like my guess was correct that they have mixed up the numbers with the dates.
Lookup by Myself:
Deaths Sept 1847, Twist Henry R 86 Sittingbourne 5b 571
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KFHS CD #7 - Faversham Burials:
7240, 1947 10-Feb, TWIST Henry Rands, 86, Faversham, H-335, Powder worker.
***** Suspect this should be October 2, 1947.
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Now unless this poor man was buried before he died, they have mixed up the numbers with the names of the months.
It would still be interesting to see if my theory is correct. ???
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With closer inspection of the dates in this index, there is two formats to the way the dates are written
Any burial prior to the 12th of the month is written Number-Month (eg 10-Feb)
Any burial after the 12th of the month is written Month-Number (eg May-20)
I would suspect that all the burials prior to the 12th of each month have been mixed up. Still a theory but I have found a few in my tree that when corrected, make much more sense.
Nancy
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I have flagged this problem with the appropriate person in the KFHS - hopefull they will correct it and re-issue the CD.
I suspect what happened was that the person doing the transcription forgot to change the default settings in MS Excel to English date format!
Regards
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for doing that.
Nancy
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Reply from KFHS:
"The problem was in the old CD07 but this has now been replaced with CD02/07 and the file for Faversham burials is corrected."
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for the information. I appreciate your confirmation of the problem.
Nancy