RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Andcarred on Wednesday 13 August 08 01:16 BST (UK)

Title: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Andcarred on Wednesday 13 August 08 01:16 BST (UK)
Hi,

Is there anyone who can help me with a baptism in 1823/24 in either of the above parishes.  I am looking for the birth of a William Morley Markwell in the above years.  I think he is the son of Bartholomew Markwell and his wife Sarah (nee Jeffery) but there is some suggestion his parents may be Benjamin Markwell and Emily Izard. 

He eventually moved to London as an apprentice to a tailor in Islington (1841 census) and married the tailor's daughter Mary Ann Izard.  This couple had 3 children in London before leaving in 1849 to come to Australia on the ship Chasely.  Although baptised with the christian names of William Morley he used the name John Markwell.   There is much confusion over this chap and we are not sure exactly who he is. 

Any assistance to sort out his parentage would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Andcarred
Brisbane Australia
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: makjeng on Monday 18 August 08 15:55 BST (UK)
Hi there,

My notes have 'him' recorded as "William (John) MARKWELL" B:10-AUG-1823 Horncastle; D: 26-OCT-1881 buried 27-OCT-1881 in Toowong Cemetery.
Married: Mary Ann (that matches) but with family name TYARD which is near enough to IZARD to indicate a transcription error somewhere.

William is listed in the Queensland  archives list of immigrants on board the Chaseley.

He subsequently remarried, twice(?)

Morley pops up as a second name in a later generation.

Hope this is useful.

Makjeng
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: bell58 on Wednesday 07 October 09 06:14 BST (UK)
Hello Markwell researchers, I have been researching the Markwells from Horncastle for some time. My Mother was a Markwell, descended from Samuel Markwell. My theory is that the Markwells were French Huguenots who fled France to Lincolnshire in the 17th century. They were lured there to assist in draining the Fens which was a huge marshland. There was the promise of obtaining land. Previous to this they were Ashkenazi Jews who may have converted to avoid persecution. I have had my uncle do his Y DNA to prove my theory. His DNA shows significant amounts of Icelandic/ Norwegian DNA ( East Anglia was a former Danish kingdom) and Jewish DNA. Obviously when they arrived in Lincolnshire they intermarried).  I have read research papers  that report that significant numbers of Jews converted to Prostestants in France. Please contact if anyone is interested. Tom Bell.   
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Andcarred on Wednesday 07 October 09 12:23 BST (UK)
Hi Tom,

I am very interested in the Markwell tree and particularly in your DNA experiments.   Could you PM me about this family please.  I live in Brisbane, Qld.

Andcarred                                         
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: davidwhite on Sunday 06 December 09 23:16 GMT (UK)
Hi, my wife is descended from William John Morley Markwell, and I have a fair bit of information on him. though when I say information, this could be interpreted as speculation.

On his marriage cert. in 1841 (in London) he was John, aged “minor” (i.e. less than 21) and in the 1841 Census (in London) earlier on that same year he was John, aged “15” (in that Census they put “15” for anyone between 15 and 20). He was born then between 1822 and 1826, I imagine it was closer to 1822, making him 19 or possibly 20 at marriage. He was a tailor, and in 1841 he was living with his brother Benjamin and family of 4 children in London.

His parents were Bartholomew and Sarah (Jeffries) who also had, according to the IGI, a son John in 1806. I think the IGI have a son William christened in 1822, and this could be where the William/John business arises. 

William John’s birth in 1822 was 5 years after his next oldest brother, 23 years after B and S’s first child, and there is no IGI record for him. If he was born in 1823, his mother would have been 44. Not impossible of course, but they did have their oldest son, Bartholomew, in 1799. Also missing IGI records are the christenings of  Samuel (1815) and Isaac (1818), those who went over to Oz in 1849. Also strange is that Samuel is recorded as being born in Wainfleet, after the first 5 children were born in Horncastle. If the family had moved to Wainfleet, then William John’s birth should have been there too.

He was married 3 times:
first to Mary Anne IZARD in London before emigrating (with 3 children). I have a copy of the marriage certificate.
His second marriage was with Georgina Edmonstone, and they had 10 children. I have a copy of this marriage certificate also.
His third was with Harriet Hunt Davis Beal – 6 children.

Speculation on his use of "Morley":
I did find on the internet that the “Morley” was a convict ship in the 1820s and early 30s.

In 1868, an 8-year old son of he and his second wife, Frederick Morley MARKWELL, died, and that might be why he adopted the name "Morley" for himself, which was how his grandson had always referred to him. [His grandson was my wife's grandfather] It was while trying to determine how this name came about that I came across the convict ship called “Morley”. He wasn't a convict and the "Morley" finished operating when he was about 10 years old in Lincolnshire, so it's still a mystery. His 3rd wife, Harriet outlived him, and ended up with "all the money". Much of this had come from George EDMONSTONE, his second father-in-law, a wealthy business man, who set up a butchers shop and became “the first mayor of Brisbane”

A few years ago, on a rare sunny day in the north of England, we drove down to visit the church at Hammeringham, where Bartholomew and Sarah were married in 1798. The church records there only went back as far as 1837.

I'd be interested where makjeng's source of his date of birth.

If anyone can add any more to my information I’d appreciate it.

 

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: JenniePS on Thursday 13 May 10 06:54 BST (UK)
Have a look at some of the stuff on Facebook. There seems to be DNA that tracks the Brisbane Markwells to R1a1 haplogroup, found at highest levels among peoples of Eastern European descent.

Also, William (John Morley) Markwell's home was called Moorlands Villa. After his death it was sold to the Mayne family. It is on the site of what is today the Wesley Hospital in Chasely Street, Auchenflower. (Markwell had migrated aboard "Chasely".)

I wonder if Moorlands was named after somewhere in Lincolnshire that represented home. It is certainly nothing like moor land situated on a hill overlooking the Brisbane River. I also wonder if Morley and Moorlands are not in some way connected.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Monday 10 January 11 22:24 GMT (UK)
I am also interested in the Markwells, currently particularly in the burial of Thomas Markwell, who was probably buried close to Moorlands. From my information, Thomas was born 1806 or 1808 in Wainfleet to Bartholomew Markwell and Sarah Jeffreys and was a brother of William/ John. He married Harriet Dickinson 31 Jan 1840 at Wainfleet All Saints. He died 22 Nov 1862 in Brisbane Australia when a tree fell on him (Courier Monday 24 November 1862 Page 2). He was buried in the Wesley Burial Grounds, from one source, or Lang Park Cemetery, Milton. The old Milton cemetery had a Methodist section. I believe the graves from there were relocated to Toowong cemetery but I cannot find a record of Thomas there. I am also having difficulty finding when he emigrated, but it seems it was after the 1861 UK census. His sister Mary b 1806  (or Mary Ann b 1802) m West Morley Ling on 30 Sep 1631 in Wainfleet, emigrated 1849 age 47 on Fortitude, d 1849 Apr 10 was also buried in 1849 Apr Lang Park, Brisbane.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Andcarred on Monday 10 January 11 22:46 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I have a large tree of Markwell research and these are the comments I have for Thomas

On 1841, 1851 and 1861 census of England.  Died in Brisbane in 1862 so therefore came to Australia after April 1861 and before Nov 1862.

Thomas Markwell did not join his brothers in Brisbane until about 1860.  Unfortunately it was not a lucky move for Thomas as he was killed shortly after arrival by being hit by a falling tree at his property at Indooroopilly.  His wife, who had given birth to 16 children, also lost a set of twins in England just before coming to Australia.

Not sure whether Thomas was moved from Lang Park to Toowong, I will check up when I have time.  His sister in law Mary Ann (wife of William/John/Morley) was buried at Lang Park but moved to the family grave at Toowong.  Too busy trying to stop flood waters at the moment.  The Auchenflower area of Markwell fame could easily be underwater by this afternoon.   Luckily Moorlands was built on a hill overlooking the river so should be safe.

Andcarred
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 11 January 11 20:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I hope you manage ok in floods.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Monday 27 June 11 20:54 BST (UK)
I hope all went well in the floods.
I have found in Picture Qld several pictures of Markwells. One is Georgina Markwell, and seems to be  the second wife of William aka John Morley Markwell. Another is simply John Markwell and is undated.
Also, there is some secondary information abouy William and his family on free pages rootsweb denise's family and in Genealogy Forum: Markwell.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Andcarred on Monday 27 June 11 23:22 BST (UK)
Hi,

Thanks for the tip about the photos.   I had a photo of Georgina Markwell when she married at 18 years of age.  She was an outstandingly beautiful young women.  The photo on the website was taken after she had given birth to 10 children in 15 years, what a difference!   She died the following year.  I think it is too easy to forget just how lucky modern women are to have access to decent birth control.

I am getting my extensive Markwell tree sorted out and will post it on World Connect shortly.

Auchenflower didn't fare too well in the floods but thankfully Moorlands and Markwell St are in the higher areas so no problems there.

Andcarred   
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 28 June 11 00:04 BST (UK)
She was still a pretty beautiful. Women really did have it tough back then.
I look forward to seeing your tree on World Connect. Please let me know, too, if you find out anything about Thomas's migration.
By the way, there is also a ton of information about Markwells on pgv.cliftonwebz.com
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 10 July 11 22:08 BST (UK)
I now have a semi - breakthrough and a snag. I explored World Connect using Thomas Markwell with spouse Dickinson. I thought I'd found that Thomas, Harriet and family emigrated in 1862 on the Erin - go -bragh, but this isn't borne out by the passenger lists and other information on free pages about Erin - go - bragh. Also, those sites on World Connect ascribe Thomas's father Bartholomew different parents from all those I've previously found and Family Tree Maker's Bell Clan and Families. Freereg gives children of John and Sarah Markwell at St Mary in Horncastle Lincolnshire baptisms as Frances, John, W'm and Sam'l., but I haven't found Bartholomew's birth or baptism there and his burial doesn't show parents there. What do you think?
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Geoff-E on Sunday 10 July 11 22:24 BST (UK)
Marriage 31 Jan 1840 at Wainfleet All Saints
Thomas MARKWELL (son of Bartholomew) to Harriett DICKINSON (dau of JOhn)

Perhaps you have seen the register for Bart's marriage, or perhaps you haven't http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=569302&iid=361405

(of course, "of Horncastle" is place of residence, not place of birth)
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 12 July 11 04:54 BST (UK)
Thanks for that amazing site, with primary source images. I hadn't seen it before. I had the date of that marriage, but from secondary sources.
Now i'll search it further for Bartholomew's parents and so much more!
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 06 August 11 08:01 BST (UK)
More about a John Markwell and other Markwells came from the search markwell "city pf Brisbane", this being the ship Thomas and family came on, as was obvious in the newspaper report about his death, if it had only clicked at the time. One of the sites from this search is from UQ archaeology in relation to the northern links project. It talks about John Markwell's acguisitions in Auchenflower and Kelvin Grove: Another from chapel hill leads to one from Logan City Council, about a burial plot for the descendants of Samuel Markwell's daughter Mary Ann. Logan Council has a lot about Samuel and his family too.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 29 October 11 08:38 BST (UK)
I've been further exploring Lincs to the Past. I still haven't come up with Bart's birth, but I now have his wife Sarah's baptism, I believe, in Hameringham Par 1/1 on p. 2 of 12 in 1778. I'm up to p. 8 and now have the birth and baptism of her illegitimate daughter Rose to George Rose 1796, before her marraige to Bartholomew in Hameringham in 1798. Thanks so much again for that great site.
I also have the births of several of Bartholomew and Sarah's children in Horncastle, but not yet the William or John Morley Markwell of this thread.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Saturday 29 October 11 19:32 BST (UK)
I am bookmarking this thread as by reading some of the names involved and the locality e.g. Dickinson it is possible there might be closer links to my tree come to light. Will help accordingly.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 30 October 11 05:47 GMT (UK)
Yes. It seems quite possible William or John Morley Markwell might be found as a son of Bartholomew and Sarah.
Many apologies, also, for typing 1778 instead of 1779 for Sarah's baptism
On p. 9 I also found the burial of Thomas Jeffery, presumably her father.
In Horncastle Par/1/7 baptisms and burials 1794 - 1809, I found the baptisms/ christenings of some other children of George and Sarah Rose - p. 51 of 83 was Edwin 1806 p. 53 of 83 was Ann 1808 & p. 56 of 83 was John 1809. By this time our Sarah Jeffery was married to Bartholomew, so perhaps it wasn't her who had the 1st illegitimate child, Rose, or maybe he married another Sarah.
The children I've found so far for Bartholomew and Sarah are:
Bartholomew b 1798 bp 1799 Horncastle
Mary b 1801 bp 1806 Horncastle m 1833 West Ling Wainfleet All Saints
Benjamin b 1803 bp 1804 Horncastle
John bp 1806 Horncastle
I don't have Thomas's baptism or that of Harriet Dickinson his wife, or their marriage, but I have the baptisms of several children to them in Wainfleet All Saints and re Harriet's parents I have John Dicki/enson bp 1789 Hogsthorpe m Mildred Sebright Addlethorpe 1817 and bu  1877 Wainfleet All Saints, with parents Edward Dickinson & Mary. Edward was bu Hogsthorpe 1791. Mildred Sebright was bp 1796 Addlethorpe with parents George Sibright (ch 1753 in Addlethorpe) & Mary Burntoft sp 2 of George Sibwright , who she m 1790 in Huttoft. I have the baptisms of John Dickinson & Mildred Sebright's other children, but not Harriet.
Sarah m 1831 Francis Hoyles? Wainfleet All Saints
Susannah m 1833 Jeremiah Sharp Wainfleet All Saints

Hope this is of help
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Wednesday 09 November 11 20:46 GMT (UK)
I haven't done any more recently on Lincs to the Past. However, on Trove, searching re Markwell for something else, then in the newspapers, then in the decade 1860- 1869, I found several articles about the death of Henry John Izard/ Isaac Markwell, William (John Morley) Markwell's son, in 1868. He fell from his horse and there was an inquest. It says he was survived by a widow and a child. From Ian's Genealogy pages,and from Denise's family on free pages genealogy site, his widow would have been Annette Alice Russell. Neither say who the child was, and I haven't yet found anything on the Qld bdm about a child. Their marriage was 1866/ B1951. You probably know this already, but I thought it might be of interest.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: dabet on Monday 28 November 11 01:50 GMT (UK)
I am descended from Samuel's dau Eliza.  I have the birth of John, non-conformist record John Markwell born 10 Aug 1822 bap 1 Sept 1822 Horncastle (Wesleyan Methodist Chapel) father Bartholomew, tailor, mother Sarah, place of abobe: Horncastle.  He is William (aged 26) on the immigration records and John everywhere else.  (Don't know when Morley came into the picture.)  I think that Samuel & Isaac were also bap at non-conformist Churches as they are not on the Wainfleet All Saints records.  Hope this is some help.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: maidmarianoops on Monday 28 November 11 02:04 GMT (UK)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/


sylvia
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Andcarred on Monday 28 November 11 03:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Searchr,

I believe the child was Cora Henrietta Markwell born 1867.  She married Frederick William Barrymore in 1893.

Andcarred
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: dabet on Monday 28 November 11 04:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,

The above was my first post & it seems that I can't send you a personal message yet.  I would be very interested in your tree as it's always good to compare findings.

Regards Betty
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Monday 28 November 11 10:56 GMT (UK)
Dabet, Make another post on this or any thread which counts to the number of postings, basically any thread except "The lighter side", and you will be able to exchange personal messages. Welcome and Good luck.Give the Help columns a good reading too.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: dabet on Tuesday 29 November 11 00:07 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that.  I'll see what happens after this one.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 29 November 11 03:56 GMT (UK)
Thanks all, especially Andcarred and Dabet
Dabet, it's great that we now have descendants of William/ John, Thomas and Samuel on this site. I will get back into Lincs to the Past soon, but have been diverted to other aspects of my family. I was getting discouraged as key people like Thomas and his wife Harriet were missing. I'll follow  up your lead. By the way, your Samuel and Eliza have basic details about them on National Library of Australia's Pandora archive: first families. They have lots about them on Trove, Ian's genealogy pages and Denises's family on genealogy free pages.
They are also in the Brisbane City Council Library's book 929.099 QUE Qld Founding Families. In there it says a grandson of Samuel and Mary started Markwell's Fisheries in Tweed Heads. What I'd love to know is which grandson. Would you know that?
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: dabet on Tuesday 29 November 11 04:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Searchr,

Yes I have looked at those sites you mentioned, haven't got all the info from Trove as yet as there's quite a bit there.  I got the info for John (Morley) William's birth from the actual image at BMD registers.co.uk RG4/Piece 1641/Folio 10) but that was the only Markwell on that site. A bit of extra info, Eliza, who mar William Jennings, is my paternal g g'mother. 
I was told that Alfred (son of Samuel) owned Markwell Fisheries but haven't been able to confirm that as yet.  It may have been him or perhaps one of his sons.
I have been searching Lincs to the Past for Bartholomew born 1774 Horncastle but haven't had any luck as yet.  I'm thinking that be may have been chr non-conformist also and those records aren't online there. 
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 28 January 12 20:38 GMT (UK)
Hi all,
I've tried Lincs to the Past again, with minor successes. However, I just found Harriett Dickinson on family search using search Harriet Dickinson Lincoln England birth 1815 - 25. It came up in England and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8), with baptism 7 Apr 1822 Wainfleet, parents John and Milred Dickinson and record set RG_1940.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 31 January 12 20:33 GMT (UK)
Hi.
As Dabet said, John was there on family search in those non-conformist records.
I've looked at Lincs to the Past again, and found that the marriages in Wainfleet All Saints Par/1/9 marriages 1837 - 1907 aren't online yet. However, mi lincolnshiremarriages and Wendy Parkinson's page have transcripts of them.
There were some things there I knew previously about from other sites e.g. the marriages of Bartholomew & Sarah's Hannah, Thomas and Samuel, plus various Dickinson marriages.
There were also some new things e.g. Bartholomew and Sarah's Elizabeth's 3rd marriage (after Zachariah Atkin and Joseph Gibson) to Thomas Scupholm 28 Oct 1858 in Croft, Lincoln. In the Dickinson's it had a marriage that could be of Harriet Dickinson's sister, Mary Ann (Marianne?) and one of someone who could be another sister, Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Tuesday 31 January 12 21:16 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am descended from Elizabeth Markwell (Atkin).

In the 1851 census Elizabeth is noted as an annuitant.   I am wondering if those of you who are descended from her brothers might tell me if there is mention of her in their Wills.

I did find an Elizabeth Gibson in the 1871 census in Louth, an annuitant also, but states her birthplace as  Boston.  The age is not quite right either.

However, if that is the case, there is an Elizabeth Gibson dies in Louth in 1875, 63 years, which would be correct.

I am open to the idea that she married a 3rd time.  I am finding difficulty though locating her in the 1861 census under her new name of Scupholm.

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 01 February 12 14:01 GMT (UK)
In that era, people born before registration (and many born after) dad no cause to know their precise age, si often didn't! Regarding the surname Scupholm, have you tried Scuffham?
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Wednesday 01 February 12 21:00 GMT (UK)
just a note about that marriage and spelling: In that transcription and in freebmd (vol 7a Page 1039), Elizabeth is Gipson. In the transcription on mi lincolnshiremarriages, it gives her father as Bartholomew Markwell, so does seem to be her...lots more investigating to do.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Thursday 02 February 12 00:32 GMT (UK)
Yes, I looked at the marriage on mi.lincolnshiremarriages, and it certainly is very convincing.

So I next wonder what happened to these people.

Surely one of them is alive in 1861.

I have found a Thomas Scupholme in Wainfleet 61 yrs born Saltfleet, innkeeper, with older children, but his wife is Mary 61 b Wainfleet.  Not our girl, or Thomas' girl either from the marriage in 1858.

Interesting mystery.  Love that.  Will keep looking.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Thursday 02 February 12 02:20 GMT (UK)
If you look at the next entry on mi.lincolnshiremarriages you will see Thomas Scupholm, with the same father William, marrying a Mary Godwin 6th Nov 1860 in Wainfleet.

This would explain the Thomas and 'Mary' in the 1861 census, of the innkeeper.

There is a death for Elizabeth Scupholm Sept qtr 1859 Spilsby.

So it appears that you have pointed me in the right direction, after decades, to find what happened to our Elizabeth.

I have been in touch with a descendant of Thomas, son of Joseph Gibson, in previous times.   He will be as excited as I am to find this.

No wonder I find this stuff addictive.

Anything that you think I may have, and you would like, just let me know.

 
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Friday 17 February 12 19:50 GMT (UK)
Descendants of Elizabeth Markwell through her first marriage to Zechariah/ Zaccheus Atkin(s) and then their daughter Harriet's marriage to Robinson Wilkinson might be interested in some of my further explorations in Lincs to the Past, freeukgen and mi lincolnshire marriages.
e.g. I just found a removal order for Robinson Wilkinson's father John, mother Elizabeth, sister Mary Ann (3) and brother William (10 mo) 9 Apr 1827 from Croft to Friskney (Friskney Par 13/ 12/ 54: can't get at the original). Friskney baptisms Par 1/ 6 has the birth of Robinson p. 53, Harriet p. 51 and Joseph p. 68.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Friday 17 February 12 20:11 GMT (UK)
a couple of corrections there: In Friskney Par 1/ 6 I meant baptisms not births and Harriet's was p. 61 not 51.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Saturday 18 February 12 01:38 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth was bap in Croft.  I also have young William being bap in Croft. 

I am assuming that this means the parish moved them on because they did not want them.

I have received from other Wilkinson descendants a Will for John when he died.  It is not such a brilliant Will because it does not name his children other than his son John.  But it appears that he made a second marriage to Hannah Shuttlewood.  There is a burial for Elizabeth in Croft in 1833. 

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Geoff-E on Saturday 18 February 12 08:25 GMT (UK)
But it appears that he made a second marriage to Hannah Shuttlewood.

He is described as a bachelor in the register http://www.lincstothepast.com/Marriages/514884.record?ImageId=25709&pt=T

Note: a more common version of her name would be SHUTTLEWORTH. :)
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 18 February 12 22:33 GMT (UK)
I suspect that that could still be our John Wilkinson, with some error or untruth about being a bachelor. It wasn't his town. It says he was from Wainfleet All Saints.
I can't access census households from home, but Robinson Wilkinson of the right age is in Wainfleet All Saints on the 1841 and 1851 census, and so are people of approximately the right names and ages.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Saturday 18 February 12 23:10 GMT (UK)
Yet, this has thrown me a bit.  I will look at the parish records later when I have time. 

However, in the moment I am concerned that John Wilkinson was 'moved on' by the parish.  Indicating to me poor financial circumstances. 

Then we have John Wilkinson dying and having enough means to leave a Will.  We could suggest the the money came from his new wife Hannah.  However, in the Will it says that it is only hers if she remains unmarried.  If the money was hers to begin with this hardly seems credible. 
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Saturday 18 February 12 23:23 GMT (UK)
On the other side of the argument though is the names of Robinson Wilkinson and Harriet's daughters.

First one is Elizabeth.  Presumably after Elizabeth Markwell and/or Elizabeth Robinson.

Second daughter is Hannah.  I have thought that this must be after Robinson's step-mother. 

John refers to her in his Will as 'my dear wife'.  I thought she might have been especially nice woman and good to her step-children.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 19 February 12 05:33 GMT (UK)
It's all puzzling. I'm a descendant of Thomas, not Elizabeth, but this is interesting.
There's a thread about removal orders in beginners. From a reading of it, it sounds like John might have been born in Friskney. Could that be right? In their marriage record Lincs to the Past Marriages Croft Par/ 1/ 7 p. 10/ 19 # 37, it says both were of Croft, but it also says Elizabeth was a minor and had the consent of her parents. There is, as you say, a baptismal record for Elizabeth in General Register Croft baptisms 1803, so her place of settlement should have been Croft. By the way, it looks like maybe 7th August and parents John Robinson and Susanna. Is that right?
Could they have been temporarily poor?

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Saturday 25 February 12 09:34 GMT (UK)
Sorry to take so long to get back.  What is more I don't know how to answer.  I don't know what is right anymore.

I have John Wilkinson b 1803 Wainfleet to John Wilkinson and Dinah Tuck.

I have John and Elizabeth's first dau Mary Ann b 1824 Wainfleet
                                            then son William b 1826 Croft
                                            then Robinson, Harriet and Joseph b 1828-32 Friskney
John and Hannah's first 3, Sophia, John and William b 1835-38 Wainfleet
                                  then next 6 b 1840-49 in Friskney

Any help here is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Saturday 25 February 12 09:44 GMT (UK)
I have to notice that Elizabeth was buried Nov 1833 in Croft and Hannah married June 1834 and the children kept coming as if nothing had happened. 

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 25 February 12 19:40 GMT (UK)
It's great you persisted and got all that. The movements do seem to make sense to me. If John was born in Wainfleet (Markwell central by the way), then moved to Elizabeth's home parish, Croft, to marry Elizabeth, then it makes sense for them to be moved on when they were poor. I don't know why to Friskney. Perhaps it's close and Croft paid for the removal.
I sounds like they stayed at Friskney until Elizabeth's death and then he moved home to Wainfleet.
There he looks like he took a trip to Alford to marry Hannah as a bachelor and came home to Wainfleet with her for a while. Then maybe he went back to Friskney.
During the time after Croft, he must have amassed some finances. Perhaps he had an inheritance.
I do love this stuff.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 25 February 12 20:09 GMT (UK)
I've been back to looking at Thomas and Harriet and their ancestors.
With Harriet, I've been looking at the family of John Dickinson and Mildred Sebright in more detail. I started with Edward and found his marriage to Sabina Showler. I ran into trouble with Mary. I've found a few alternatives for her, and should probably start a Dickinson thread somewhere else ... Lincolnshire rather than Lincolnshire Lookups?
With Thomas, I'm still hitting brick walls about his re-burial. I'm guessing he's still under Suncorp  stadium somewhere. His sister Mary who married West Morly Ling seems to have died almost as soon as she got here to Moreton Bay from the Fortitude. Her death is registered in Qld, with her burial mentioned. Then both of these are also registered in NSW, in Morpeth. West took his family there, and maybe her remains???
Brisbane History, Brisbane City Council, Aust cem index and Chapel Hill sites all have good info about the old cemetery. I'm looking now at the Mary Ann mentioned, who seems to be Isaac's wife & to have been re-buried at Toowong along with Costins, her daughter Mary's family.  William (John Morley)'s first wife Mary Ann Izard also seems not to have been re-buried.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 25 February 12 21:17 GMT (UK)
about Toowong cemetery: "along with" just meant they were reburied there too. Mary Ann née Harris was buried in Portion 1 Section 35 grave 5 with Isaac, 2 of their children and his 2nd wife Ann Rhodes. This is the grave next to grave 6 where William (John Morley) Markwell, Georgina and some children from his 2nd and 3rd marriages are buried. The Costins are in Pn 13 Sn 38 grave 22.
By the way, Brisbane History about the Paddington cemetery links to a pic of John's son, Henry John Isaac Markwell. I don't know about his re-burial either.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Saturday 25 February 12 22:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the encouragement and useful information with Elizabeth Markwell's family.  Always here if you discover something more.  Or if I can help.

However, I don't get involved with the rest of the Markwells.  Especially the ones that came to Moreton Bay.  There are too many very knowledgable people around on that subject.  I take notes of what everyone says but everything I have is someone else's research.  When I started this over 30 years ago someone was very helpful and sent info and certificates.  If you think I have certificates that you don't just say the word.

Also I borrowed a large Markwell book and gleaned what I could out of that. 
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 26 February 12 21:13 GMT (UK)
Thanks Old Moon. I might very well do that. It sounds like you have a lot. I will also get back to your Elizabeth at some stage.
Right now I've been diverted by that grave of ?William (John Morley ) Markwell. Some of the people there seem to have been reburied there in 1879. This is in agreement with Ian's Genealogy pages.
What's concerning me is John himself. Several sources say this is William (John Morley), and e.g. Ian's genealogy pages and ancestors of a Qld family seem to have good sources for this. However the only Qld bdm index entry I can find for 1881 that could relate is for John Markwell with parents Benjamin Markwell and Emily Izard???
In world connect in the eringobragh1862 database, there is mention of an Emily Izard Markwell, but I found this more confusing.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Monday 27 February 12 08:53 GMT (UK)
Friskney Lincs is close to Croft and Wainfleet, they are all located along with Thorpe between Boston and Skegness, closer to Skegness than Boston. My suggestion is that there is a liklihood the same farmer owned farms in more than one of the villages involved.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Monday 27 February 12 20:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks.
Also, my confusion with the entry about Emily Izard Markwell was not with her, but with her parents. They have Isaac Beecham Markwell not as her father, but as her grandfather. Her father there is Isaac and grandmother Helen Milne.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Wednesday 29 February 12 02:25 GMT (UK)
I found the baptisms/ christenings of some other children of George and Sarah Rose - p. 51 of 83 was Edwin 1806 p. 53 of 83 was Ann 1808 & p. 56 of 83 was John 1809. By this time our Sarah Jeffery was married to Bartholomew, so perhaps it wasn't her who had the 1st illegitimate child, Rose, or maybe he married another Sarah.

It would be interesting to find a marriage for George ROSE. 
I am inclined to think that Rose was the daughter of our Sarah JEFFERY.  Elizabeth MARKWELL's daughter Harriet ATKIN/WILKINSON named one of her daughters Rose Jeffries WILKINSON.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Wednesday 29 February 12 05:24 GMT (UK)
If you look in 1841 and even better in 1851 you will see George ROSE with Sarah his wife.
George was born in Osgathorpe, Leicestershire and Sarah born in Thimbleby, Lincolnshire where they are living.

So I am thinking George did marry a Sarah but because of the name of the daughter of Harriet WILKINSON I think he had little Rose with our Sarah first.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Geoff-E on Wednesday 29 February 12 08:48 GMT (UK)
It would be interesting to find a marriage for George ROSE. 

To save wading through six pages, when and where?

Is George ROSE to Sarah RICHARDSON at Wilksby, 21 May 1799 any use? :)
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Wednesday 29 February 12 09:28 GMT (UK)
Looks good doesn't it!!

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Friday 02 March 12 00:59 GMT (UK)
I have the birth of John, non-conformist record John Markwell born 10 Aug 1822 bap 1 Sept 1822 Horncastle (Wesleyan Methodist Chapel) father Bartholomew, tailor, mother Sarah, place of abobe: Horncastle.

Have you accessed the Wesleyan records?   :D
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 04 March 12 05:06 GMT (UK)
Hi all,
The mystery of William (John Morley) Markwell  continues. I'm wondering if anyone e.g. David of reply 4 might be able  to let us know if William/ John gave his parents' names in his marriages.
I've found what seems to be his first marriage on freebmd marriages June Qtr 1841 Bloomsbury Vol 1 page 101, but haven't found it yet on freereg.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 06 March 12 21:58 GMT (UK)
To save people any double work, these are the threads where I have now mentioned my Thomas and Harriet people:
Lincolnshire: topics 385367 and 584332
Australia: topic 585735
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Old Moon on Tuesday 26 June 12 06:30 BST (UK)
I have contacted searchr by email, however, if anyone else has an interest and was following this thread:

I have today received the certificates for Elizabeth Markwell's 3rd marriage and her death.  And yes!  It is absolutely true!  She did marry Thomas Scupholm in 1858 and then die the following year in 1859.

One of her sisters is witness at the marriage and another sister was present at her death.

If anyone is of this family and would like a copy of the certificates just let me know.

Also, her niece married Thomas Scupholm's son, Marshall Scupholm.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Thursday 13 December 12 19:30 GMT (UK)
I am bookmarking this thread as by reading some of the names involved and the locality e.g. Dickinson it is possible there might be closer links to my tree come to light. Will help accordingly.
Hi Redroger,
I am still working on my Thomas's family and the Dickinsons. Is there anyone in particular that I should be noticing as I explore?
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Saturday 15 December 12 20:26 GMT (UK)
Ann Dickinson b Tetford Lincs 1824. Married Thomas Luffman at Alford 5th March 1844, died there in 1891.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 16 December 12 19:47 GMT (UK)
I'll keep an eye out!
I've made a thread about Dickinsons at
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,584332.0.html
I hope that link works, because I had to type it out by hand. The "all your own work" notice came up when I tried to paste it.

I haven't come across your Ann, other than her marriage on
http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/spilsbyRD.xls

As can be seen on that thread, I'm still looking for many of the children of John Dickinson & Mildred Sebright. I might try exploring your family a little, to see if any links come up.
Where should I post things I find, if any? Is it only connections you're interested in, or that family?
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 18 December 12 03:20 GMT (UK)
It seems Ann was born 4 Feb 1822 and baptized 5 Feb 1822, with parents Francis & Elizabeth. Again I can't put in the link because the copyright message comes up, but it's Alford Par/ 1/ 7 No. 220 p. 21/ 57.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=620740&iid=225275
Her sister Mary, b 28 Jul 1824, seems to have been bp 6 Aug 1824 No. 263 p. 23/ 57 & also same birthdate but different bp 16 Aug 1824 No. 265 p. 24/ 57!
Parents pf Ann & Mary fit with the marriage of Thomas Luffman & Ann Dickenson 5 Mar 1844 in Alford from mi lincolnshire as before, with her father Frank. The marriage is on freereg too, St Wilfrid, Alford with his father John.
I can't find a register on Lincs to The Past online that fits with the marriage or with the burial.
From any Alford Par/ 1/ .. online e.g. the one above, you can go to the parent register of that and then to all the ones below that. None of the Alford ones are online.
More about all the families mentioned is on Lincs to the Past, freereg & world connect e,g, linclinks (not currently up) but you probably have this.
I also found a Thomas Luffman vicar of Alford in the 1892 Gazetteer p. 118/ 1251
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=945388&iid=18068
By linclinks on World Connect, Thomas & Ann's children were born Alford, Grainthorpe & North Somercotes.
There may be a connection with my family, but I haven't yet found it!
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 18 December 12 20:01 GMT (UK)
Many thanks indeed. The family history is indeed convoluted. Thomas Luffman who married Ann was the son of John Luffman (1797-1869) and Sarah Sizer(1791-1874)  His grandfather, also John came to Alford with the Somerset militia in 1795, and left the unit there in marry. His birth seems to have been in Henstridge Somerset in 1776, but this is unconfirmed. There does seem to be a link between the Thomas in this thread, and the Rev. Thomas Luffman, vicar of Alford, though the actual connection will be in the 18th century if not earlier. Rev. Thomas was born in 1838, probably at Charlton Horethorne the eldest child of John Luffman and Sarah Bartlett. Prior to his stay at Alford he had been curate at St. Peter at Arches, Lincoln, and prior to that had been in the Newark area. After the death of his wife in 1887 he held other posts, and eventually died at the age of 60 at St. Swithin's Vicarage Lewisham London. Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 18 December 12 20:38 GMT (UK)
no worries ...
I love looking things up, especially when there is a hope of a connection.
Please let me know if there's anyone in particular you'd like looked up, but perhaps this should really be in another thread.
For instance, on Lincs to the Past I've kept on looking at these families and have the baptisms of 3 of Thomas and Ann's children and before I read your reply had just found the burial of Thomas's father John in 1869. I also have the marriage of Ann Dickenson's parents Frances and Elizabeth.
The only thing I don't like doing is typing links by hand rather than pasting them!
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Geoff-E on Tuesday 18 December 12 20:58 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,584332.0.html
I hope that link works, because I had to type it out by hand. The "all your own work" notice came up when I tried to paste it.

There's no need to do that, assuming you are using a computer.

Copy the link on LttP
Come to RootsChat
Start your reply then, when you want to paste the link, hold down the Ctrl key on your keyboard and touch V.  :)
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 18 December 12 22:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks a million Geoff! That will make a big difference.
Here are the baptisms of Thomas Luffman & Ann Dickenson's children so far:
Mary Ann bp 14 May 1845 Alford Par/ 1/ 9 # 798 p. 58/ 88
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=516494&iid=27038

George bp 15 Oct 1846 Grainthorpe Par/ 1/ 5 # 527 p. 40/ 58
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=598799&iid=309932

Elizabeth bp 16 Jan 1849 Grainthorpe Par/ 1/ 5 # 563 p. 42/ 58
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=598799&iid=309936

Here is the marriage of Frances Dickenson & Elizabeth Armstrong 24 Apr 1821 Tetford Par/ 1/ 8 # 44 p. 11/ 25
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=620687&iid=225183

& here's John Luffman, ?father of Thomas Luffman's burial, 61y, 10 Dec 1869 Alford Par/ 1/ 22 p. 70/ 112
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=513816&iid=26562
Here's his baptism:
John son of John & Ann Luffman age two years 9 Nov 1800 Alford Par/ 1/ 4 p. 28/44
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=514984&iid=26807

Here is the marriage of John Luffman, bachelor of Alford & Sarah SISZSER (LISZSON on freereg) spinster of Louth 23 Mar 1818 Louth St James Par/ 1/ 29 # 258 p. 46/ 155
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=723670&iid=119594

I am looking up the other dates you gave, Redroger. Do you want them posted?
I look forward to exploring the St. Swithin's one. Wasn't that where Dr. in the House was supposedly filmed?
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Geoff-E on Wednesday 19 December 12 08:03 GMT (UK)

There's no need to do that, assuming you are using a computer.

Copy the link on LttP
Come to RootsChat
Start your reply then, when you want to paste the link, hold down the Ctrl key on your keyboard and touch V.

Or, if you prefer to do it all with a mouse, rather than mess about with the keyboard ...

Go to Edit at top left of screen and Paste is an option on the dropdown menu. :)
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 19 December 12 13:55 GMT (UK)
Yes please Searchr, I had no idea about Doctor in the House being filmed there.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Wednesday 19 December 12 21:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks again Geoff. That's even  easier. My technical hitch now is that that message comes up when I try clicking on red underlines to add words to the dictionary!
I've done a little more. Could you please maybe start a new thread about it though Roger? (maybe Thomas LUFFMAN, Ann DICKENSON & ancestors, or something like that? just in Lincolnshire? I just think it might be a bit hard to find here if someone else is actually looking. It could have a link to here. This one could link to it too.

Sarah Sizer
bp: could only find her baptism on freereg, & on world connect linclinks (just the 1791) and
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:3205573
I think you might know that database well.
Sarah SISER dau/ John & Elizabeth 27 Mar 1791 Holy Trinity Church Bilsby
I don't like putting in freereg links because they change. So do the file numbers.

bu: Sarah LUFFMAN 78y 30 Jun 1874 Lincolnshire Alford Par/ 1/ 22 # 1208 p. 83/ 112 (St Wilfrid from freereg)
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=513816&iid=26575

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 20 December 12 16:25 GMT (UK)
John Luffman b c1798 is the father of Thomas. John and Sarah Sizer had 7 children; i.e. William 1818-1887,John Siesor 1821-1886,Thomas 1824-1901,George 1827-1905, Richard 18828-1903; Ann 1831-1860 and Elizabeth 1832-1905. At least 3 spelling variants of Sizer appear in the records, but apart from the Christian name use I have standardized my trees on Sizer. John was the first child named Luffman to be born to his father, also John and Ann Troy nee Welsh. Her history is also convoluted, she had been married to Edward Troy (Alford Feb 1785) and had a daughter Elizabeth, with him in 1785. He then vanished from the scene, Ann then had 2 sons, Richard and Joseph in 1790 and 1793 respectively. My tree records them as "Filii populi". John Luffman then appeared on the scene with the Militia in 1795, Ann had a daughter Alice Troy in 1797, and then married John on Christmas Day. I feel certain enough to have shown John as her father.They then had John (c1798-1869),Thomas (1804-1877) and William (1805-1841) together as a couple. From what I have been able to piece together from military records, John had a habit of vanishing after the birth of a child, rejoining the military, and then resurfacing a few years later to repeat the process. An interesting lifestyle to say the least. Perhaps not surprising as the origin of the surname Luffman is occupational, medieval "man of love" or more bluntly Lecher!! This John Luffman was the first record of the surname in the county of Lincolnshire or indeed so far as I can establish the north.

At this time I think it best to let the threads run as they are already, but if there is a poor response then we could institute the thread suggested.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Thursday 20 December 12 19:04 GMT (UK)
Yes. Thanks for the information. What a great name! I can't see that I could possibly extend your massive well-researched Luffman knowledge.
The St. Swithins of Dr. in the House was evidently fictional.
It's Ann Dickenson's parents and family that I'll pursue a bit more, just in case it does connect.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 20 December 12 19:15 GMT (UK)
We do seem to have more than our share of rare(ish) surnames. There were about 550 Luffmans in the UK and 1100 Sizers in the 2002 census.Dickenson comparatively common at 2700
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Saturday 22 December 12 07:14 GMT (UK)
Smith is No. 1. I wonder what the rarest is?
Here is a bit more about Ann Dickenson's family:
After Ann & Mary, Francis & Elizabeth may have had:
From Lincs to the Past
Francis, bp son/ Francis & Elizabeth Dickenson 28 May 1828 Asterby Par/ 1/ 5 # 131 p. 16/ 63 http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=553977&iid=32259
 (also on Family Search)

Eliza, bp dau Francis & Elizabeth Dickenson 10 Jun 1832 Alford Par/ 1/ 9 # 121 p. 15/ 88
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=516494&iid=26995

The family seem to be on the 1841 census in Alford e.g. from family search's entry re the father Francis & http://www.1901censusonline.com/.
There is another Francis & Elizabeth Dickenson/ Dickinson couple who have several children in Scothorne, from family search & Lincs to the Past (Scothern Par/ 1/ 4) e.g. http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=514667&iid=352600
They have children from 1840 - at least 1854. It may be the same couple, but Francis is then a blacksmith rather than a labourer, from Father's occupation on the baptisms. It's possible, though unlikely, and they could have gone back to Alford for the 1841 census. I don't know about the 1851 one though. Elizabeth could have still been having children in 1854, just, if she was born about 1800. However, from what I can interpret from 1841 census info, I think she may have been born well before that.
What do you think?

Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 23 December 12 16:00 GMT (UK)
Surnames of England and
Wales website lists them all, but stops at 5 instances. The rarest name I have encountered is the surname Answer, a person I worked with 50 years ago; his had had around 40 instances.Do you have any instances of the surname Hudson? They were connected to the Luffmans for over 40 years in the early 19th century? It would be a pointer perhaps to the Dickensons if both surnames appeared.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 23 December 12 21:08 GMT (UK)
No Hudsons that I know of
The main surnames of this branch of my family are in the thread I mentioned above and in this thread about Markwells. Also, I continued on with your Francis & Elizabeth and the ? related Francis & Elizabeth in Scothern. If the Francis baptized 1840 there was indeed part of your Francis's family, then we also have his wife's name Emily (Emma) WARE and her parents Samuel WARE and Elizabeth CLAYPOLE. My John DICKINSON's parens were Edward DICKINSON & Mary HEWE / HEYES / HOWES (many variations). He was of Boston & she of Wrangle when they married in Wrangle 24 Oct 1875 Wrangle Par/ 1/ 3 # 160 p. 24/ 27 http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=623620&iid=129733
They then had at least 2 children (Mary bp 20 Oct 1788 & my John 27 Nov 1789: both on Lincs to the Past if you want them) in Hogsthorpe and he was buried there 5 Dec 1791 Hogsthorpe Par/ 1/ 3 p. 21/ 26 http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=600439&iid=389447
Edward's wife Mary was bu 2 May 1823 79y Sibsey Par/ 1/ 10 # 325 p. 24/ 106 http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=715926&iid=341821
Happy hunting and Christmas!
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 25 December 12 20:40 GMT (UK)
Season's greetings returned, not able to do meaningful research whilst using netbook, just keeping in touch.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 01 January 13 22:02 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I've been diverted into various alleys.
HOG was one of the soundex names for Hewes and I found a marriage on freereg and milincolnshire: George Luffman Elizabeth VICKERS, widow, fathers John Luffman & John HOGG, 24 Feb 1862, Alford. I did, I think, find her previous marriage 8 Nov 1847 Alford: William VICKERS, son/ John Elizabeth HOG, dau/ Elias. The name of her father isn't the same in each, though. Family search has a bp Elizabeth Hogg 20 Mar 1831 South Ormsby, dau/ Elias Hogg & Elizabeth. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N1SW-9HG
This is also on freereg a bp for Elias Hog, 21 Sep 1794 Stainton le Vale, son/ George & Eleanor. Also on freereg there are bp of various children of Elias Hog & Elizabeth: Harriet bp 7 Jul 1833 Sth. Ormsby, Robt bp 15 Oct 1815 Immingham & Thomas bp 17 Jan 1819 Irby Upon Humber. Freereg also has a m of George Hogg and Eleanor BELLAMY 13 May 1791 Louth. I didn't get much further, but that lead to exploring more about my Mary Hewes's family: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,585367.0.html
I also tried exploring world connect sites that had names that overlapped. Here are some:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=linclinks
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:3091821
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=davids-tree
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=londoner33
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lincroots

The last one had an Elizabeth Armstrong who could be yours, the one who m Francis Dickenson Elizabeth Armstrong 24 Apr 1821 Lincolnshire Tetford Par/ 1/ 8 # 44 p. 11/ 25
I found her also on freereg b 25 Aug 1800 bp 28 Aug 1800 Hagworthingham, dau/ Amrose & Ann. Lincroots had much more about her ancestry, but not her marriage. There were at least 2 others who could have been that Elizabeth, but Hagworthingham seems the most likely as it's quite close to Tetford. The others were
bp 19 Oct 1794 Friskney, dau/ Francis & Anne
bp 7 Nov 1804 Louth, dau Thomas & Ann.
I haven't checked any of those on Lincs to the Past yet.
There are so many Dickensons!
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 02 January 13 18:31 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for that; I had not realised that Elizabeth was in fact a widow when she married George.They had at least 3 children together;Betsy Ann (b1865)' Jane (b1875) and William (1863-1936) More research to do obviously; many thanks again.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Wednesday 02 January 13 20:41 GMT (UK)
It's good that my diversions proved useful!
Do you think that the George Luffman Elizabeth Hogg married could be your George, son/ Thomas Luffman & Ann Dickenson? I had him marrying:
Luffman George father Thomas; Stones Sarah father William; 3 Apr 1873 Lincolnshire Alford
from freereg & milincolnshire, & wondered if he could be the one who married Elizabeth Hogg before that in 1862 as it all seemed to fit, but thought it probably wasn't him because the marriage to Elizabeth Hogg says his father is John not Thomas, & because he would only have been 18ish if he was bp in 1846. Could Thomas sometimes have been known as John?
I'm still confused about Elizabeth Hogg's different names for her father on her 2 marriages too.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Friday 04 January 13 18:17 GMT (UK)
No! The George Luffman who married Elizabeth Vickers (formerly Hogg) was in fact born c1827 in Alford 4th son of John Luffman and Sarah Sizer.Need to follow up the story about Elizabeth and her differently named father, but it does occur to me that possibly between the marriages her natural father had died and her mother remarried? Just a suggestion, I have not yet researched this.For a family that only moved into Lincolnshire in the 1790s (see previous posts) the Luffman family caused a lot of confusion.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 06 January 13 05:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I'm glad I asked. I'm off on another tangent that's brought me right back to the John Markwell of this thread.
My Mary Hewes who m Edward Dickinson was the daughter of George Hewes and Mary West. I started exploring Wests and got back to the Wests in this thread. John (& my Thomas) Markwell from this thread had father Bartholomew Markwell. Bartholomew Markwell, I believe, was the son of a John Markwell and Sarah WEST. As well as on linclinks, there is a lot about Sarah West's family and ancestors on http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=billinghurst
It's all being nicely backed up on Lincs to the Past Horncastle registers, freereg & family search & is confirming some of http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~denisesfamily/ and http://tng.cliftonbeach.net.
Sarah's father John (who, from various entries, was a cordwainer, m Mary DAWSON and then it seems Ann FISHER in Boston, he being a widower of Horncastle: http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=551023&iid=59901) seems to be the son of William West and Sarah PACEY.
Sarah's siblings seem to have married people whose surnames link right in with Bartholomew Markwell's family:
Sarah West's sister Mary seems to have married a William MORLEY, which links back to the earlier supposition in this thread about why the John Markwell of this thread called himself Morley.
Sarah West's sister Ann seems to have m a John BEECHAM. There's more about them on http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=gmullins
The John Markwell of this thread and his brother, my Thomas, had a brother Isaac, sometimes called Isaac Beecham Markwell.
Sarah West's sister Frances is also said to have married a LACEY. I haven't explored much there yet.

Of course, I haven't made any link to the Mary West who m George Hews, but I'm having a good time.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 06 January 13 12:56 GMT (UK)
What do you know about Mary Dawson? There may be a further entanglement there. To digress a moment several years ago Doncaster FHS had a presentation about a family entanglement in Lincolnshire by an archivist from Lincolnshire RO. To my astonishment I discovered that much of her talk concerned the Dawson family into which my Luffman family had married. The known facts are these, a Susannah Hudson (1823-1905) had married a farmer Cartwright Dawson with whom she had 10 children. Cartwright died c1860, and his widow Susannah married William Luffman, an older brother of my grandfather with whom she had a further 3 children. Since this predated the married women's property Acts William went from farm labourer to farmer in one easy move!!
A generation earlier a previous William Luffman also married a Hudson, in this case Frances; it is a sordid tale indeed as William married her 2 days or so after he along with her brother and a further accomplice had committed a highway robbery. For this they were all sentenced to hang, but as was common practice the sentence was commuted to life transportation. William died there in 1841. I have not yet been able to confirm whether there is a familial connection between the two Hudson generations, but so far as I have been able to follow the families it does seem likely. For further threads on this matter put Hudson in the search box, and they along with some others will come up.This is just another mystery in my convoluted ancestry; and that is just the Lincolnshire side of the family!
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Sunday 06 January 13 20:19 GMT (UK)
I like it when there are twists and turns.
This is what I have about Mary Dawson:
This is from 3 general registers: http://www.lincstothepast.com/General-register/552725.record?pt=T http://www.lincstothepast.com/General-register/711916.record?pt=T
http://www.lincstothepast.com/General-register/719149.record?pt=T
She's also on 3 world connect databases: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=anna-louise http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=billinghurst http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=gmullins
I found a christening that could be her: Mary dau/ Wm Dawson & Mary 19 Jan 1713 Horncastle Par/ 1/ 6 p. 60/ 139 & Par/ 1/ 3 p. 50/ 73 I've just seen that the Billinghurst database says she could be b 1713 dau/ William Dawson & Mary HODGSON, from a family tree on ancestry, so that fits.
Her m: Jno West Singl Man Mary Dawson Spinsr 3 Nov 1740 Horncastle Par/ 1/ 5 p. 11/ 178 Lincolnshire (also on freereg with Church St Mary)
her possible bu: Mary West wife/ John West 6 Aug 1771 Horncastle Par/ 1/ 5 p. 146/ 178 Lincolnshire (before John's possible remarriage in Boston the next year & fits with d 1771 from the family tree from Billinghust)
Her children's christenings are on family search batch no. C01293-4, as well as on Lincs to the Past & freereg.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: Redroger on Monday 07 January 13 21:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that. Will check those sources out in the near future.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 08 January 13 20:37 GMT (UK)
I started looking up Hudson as you suggested, and the first  thread I read did my head in! There is a limit to twists and turns when it comes to people of the same name.
Also, HODSON might just be a possible link between HUDSON, HUTSON and HODGSON. I found some Hodsons on some pages in some Horncastle parishes (Not saying I've gone through all the pages in these at all) e.g. http://www.lincstothepast.com/General-register/547124.record?pt=T p 42 http://www.lincstothepast.com/General-register/711916.record?pt=T pages 140, 148, 158, 173.
Title: Re: Parish Register of Horncastle or Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Post by: searchr on Tuesday 16 April 19 22:35 BST (UK)
Quote
On his marriage cert. in 1841 (in London) he was John, aged “minor” (i.e. less than 21) and in the 1841 Census (in London) earlier on that same year he was John, aged “15” (in that Census they put “15” for anyone between 15 and 20). He was born then between 1822 and 1826, I imagine it was closer to 1822, making him 19 or possibly 20 at marriage. He was a tailor, and in 1841 he was living with his brother Benjamin and family of 4 children in London.
Hi all,
I know it's been ages but thought someone might be interested in some explorations I've been doing in British newspapers. I also will make some new posts in the main part of Lincs about tailors, bargeman/ boaters/ boatmen/ watermen, labourers & drovers in Lincs.
How well off do people think the Markwells were? What would their life have been like?
Bartholomew's death in Wainfleet All Saints was reported in the papers in Mar. 1840.
In Wainfleet All Saints again, Susanna's marriage to Mr. Jeremiah Sharp & Hannah's marriage to Mr. John Holmes (both Mrs.) were reported in Dec 1833 & Jun 1843 respectively.
Benjamin in Oct 1838 in London was applying to be discharged re a bankruptcy, before he and his family left for America in 1852.
A Mr. Isaac Beecham seems to have owned places where Markwells lived in Horncastle, as in July 1820 he was selling off a places occupied by Wm. & John Markwell (not sure who they were). I don't think it was just as a real estate person because by Nov 1839 another cottage was being sold off, with Samuel Markwell as tenant (ours?) bordered by one belonging to an heir of Mr. Isaac Beecham.
In 1841 Sarah, a widow, was living with (her sons presumably) ag. labourers Bartholomew & Samuel.
Thomas in 1841 was a bargeman, and from his children's baptisms in the 1840s was variously a boater, boatman or waterman before he was a labourer by 1847. He was a drover by 1861 & in Jun 1860 as a drover of Wainfleet was reported to have stolen a coat from the roadside and been sentenced to 3 months' imprisonment.
I'm wondering what they would have been thinking, as tailors & children of a tailor, about all the weaver and spinner unrest in the early 1800s.
Hope this is of interest.