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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: oldcrone on Sunday 17 August 08 15:09 BST (UK)
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I'm wondering if anyone can help me get a bit more insight into the lives of agricultural labourers/servants in the 19th century?
To be more specific, I'm researching the life of my g-g-g-grandmother, the wife of a lime-burner, who was widowed in her 30s, and left on poor relief with 6 children in a tiny village in Sussex (1851 census). At the next census, she was a 'laundress', had had twins (no father listed), and then another son out of wedlock (although she eventually married the father). Whilst married for the second time, she was living and working on a local farm as a servant, apart from her husband and son; but the next census shows her as a 'farmer of 3 acres' - presumably she's been given a bit of land to farm? All very complicated, and I know that it's difficult to put the detail on this sort of story, but...
Can anyone help me understand this scenario a bit more? Any books/publications which might fill in the gaps? I'm writing up some of this particular strand of the family history at the moment.
Many thanks for any help!
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Sounds like she rather improved her status.
A laundress worked very hard for not much money - an occupation of last resort for a woman with children (she could work at home).
I think it unlikey she was given land (unless she managed to save from her megre income), but I would guess that her husband rented the small plot and worked it. When he died, the owner allowed her to carry on.
meles
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Hi
I think an ag lab was a skilled farm labourer who was given a cottage to live in by the farmer in return for work. I think an ag lab did a lot of digging ditches, helping plough fields, and other skilled, but probably back breaking work.
Servants were people who were hired at a house by a family, ie, helping keep the house, cook, wash, and all sorts. Male servants were butlers, footmen, coachmen and gardeners mainly.
Here is a story as my family have Sussex blood.
My ggggran Mary Ann Walder born in 1839 was the daughter of a successful wheelwright in the Slaugham area of Sussex. She gave birth to an illegitimate baby daughter in December 1863 in Warninglid, Sussex. The father, Thomas Roberts lived a few miles away in Brighton. He was a 50-year old servant and footman. I think that could be how they met. When Mary Ann Walder fell pregnant in about April 1863, Thomas was still married, but his wife was very ill with TB. The previous wife died on 14 Nov 1863 in Brighton.
Inbetween Feb and June 1864, Thos and Mary Ann both moved to London and Thos gt a job as a servant in Stoke Newington. I believe their behaviour caused a scandal back in Warninglid and that could explain their sudden departure from Sussex.
Ben
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try this previous thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,29570.0.html
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Four sites you could try
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010136ernle/010136toc.htm
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/9197
http://www.applebymagna.org.uk/appleby_history/villagers_early_modern.htm
http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/hammond/village.html
Stan
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Thank you, Meles: that's exactly what I thought! It seems that her 2nd husband was a 'man of a ?bit of means' (he's listed on Pigots, or something, as a glazier), so the thought of him having a bit of land that she then carried on after his death makes sense (and he did die before her).
Thanks so much for that!
xxx
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My pleasure! :)
I hope the references the others gave you are helpful for your research.
mele
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Thank you, Ben! That really helps to give me some context to my own family history research. I can't imagine whether my g-g-g-grandmother's behaviour caused a stir! She definitely had illegitimate twins, and then another illegit son (although she did end up marrying the father).
To me, she sounds like a very tough woman!
Thank you, Toni and Stanmapstone, I will investigate your links!
xxx
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I don't think the illegitimate births would have raised an eyebrow. It was very common - indeed my own gg grandmother had three illegitimate births, whilst she was an ag lab, then she too became a washerwoman.
Her marriage to a tailor was a step up.
meles
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Hi
I think even though it was common, some places still caused a stir with illegitimacy. It was rife but frowned upon. Occasionally, some people did then flee their home parish.
Ben
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Out of all my family history research, on all of my grandparent's families, these are the only 'out of wedlock' children I've found so far.
I mean, the poor woman did marry a bloke, had 6 kids, then her old man died in the late 1840s; then she had to do the best she could in a dreadful financial situation! And in a time of primitive contraception.
I suppose this is the type of scenario I want to understand.
Thanks for your help!
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In my part of the country - Northumberland / Scottish Borders Ag Labs went to the Hiring Fairs - I'm not sure at what time of year - and were hired for the season or sometimes if they were lucky they were hired permanently and then they were given a house by the farmer. Several of my ancestors live around the same area for a number of years but others moved frequently . Luck of the draw or wre the permanent ones harder workers?
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I suppose the date of death and the marriage to her next hubby was more than 13 years apart if the previous one died in 1848 and she remarried in about early 1860s? In those days, it did take time and effort to go out and meet someone after a widowhood unless it was to someone you knew.
It could well be that the second husband was the father of all of her subsequent illegitimate children. She may have been on poor relief, but might also have been recieving some sort of help from a man. Poor law records might find this.
Anyway, could you please tell me her name so I can look her up in 1851 and 1861 so I can make a judgement? What was her second husband's name?
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Nanny Jan recommened this book (which I browsed when staying with her this week) ...
'My Ancestor was an Agricultural Labourer' pub by Society of Genealogists ... you can order it through ...
www.sog.org.uk
I've ordered a copy ...
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Any help is gratefully received, coombs!
My g-g-g-grandmother's name was Elizabeth Hasting(s); she married John Boys in 1834 in Alciston. She had 6 children with John Boys who died in 1846: then had twins (Caroline and William Boys) in 1850 (father unknown). She had another son, Eli Stevens Boys, in 1855.
The father of, at least, Eli was Henry Stevens (Stephens).
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sometimes ag lab was seasonal work so they would work all hours during the smmer and inthe winter spend what they had earnt through the summer
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Yes I just looked up Elizabeth Boys in 1851 and 1861. Born c1814 in Alfriston.
She wed Henry Stevens in 1864 so the gap between her husbands death and her remarriage was 18 years. Yes, often children were given fathers names as middle names if they were born out of wedlock but if the parents were about to marry, they probably didnt bother to. I reckon Henry could have been the father of the twins William and Caroline. Maybe he was giving her financial support.
On the subject, when my ancestor Thomas Roberts fathered a child to a young woman when his wife was seriously ill, he probably just saw her as comfort during his hours of darkness and with no birth control, he got her pregnant. No wonder why they swiftly moved to London in the spring of 1864 from Sussex.
Ben
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I've added this topic to the other 3 topics on Agriculural Labourers in the
RootsChat Reference Library (http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/index.php) => Lexicon (click here) (http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/reflib-lexicon.php?letter=A)
Bob
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Ben - thanks for checking this out!
I still think that Henry Stephens/Stevens wasn't the father of the twins (he was quite happy, it seems, to admit fatherhood to Eli, but there's nothing there about the twins born 5 years earlier). I reckon the father of the twins was someone who's washing she did (think Nick Kamen in the Levis advert in the 80s!).
xxx
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Thanks, Bob, I will check this resource out!
xxx
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before 1875 there was nothing stopping the womn naming the putative father andhis name being put on the birth certificate, it was only after 1875 the his written declaration had to be produced or he be there to register the child in person.
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Thanks for that, Toni!
Which means that it seems odd that she didn't name the father of her twins? Maybe she didn't know who he was? Horrors?!
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I wonder how many ordinary working women of the time knew this piece of English law?
Thinking Patsy Kensit, when the archivist produced the birth cert (of the illegitimate baby) she said she had never seen the father named on the cert before (as being unmarried to the mother) and it was extremely rare. Which started a discussion on here, which Stan cleared up.
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I think that most illegitimate births before the 1875 change didnt have the fathers name on the certificate because the mother probably didnt know that she could name the putative father if she wanted to. If the pre 1875 allowance was made more public knowledge it would make things a bit easier.
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my nans nan was born 26h dec 1869 she was illigitimate and her father wasnt named
thus creating a dead end,
her mother married in 1873 and then died of an ectopic pregnancy soon after
the man she married in 1873 was previously married and i often wondered if he was the father of Fanny but i will never know
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Thanks for all these comments! They've got me thinking and researching...
xxx
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Right, putting flesh on the particular scenario that I don't fully understand:
In 1864, my g-g-g-grandmother, Elizabeth Boys, married the father (Henry Stephens) of her last born child, Eli Stevens (Stephens) Boys, born 1855. Elizabeth would have been 50.
In the 1871 census, Elizabeth Stephens was working as a (married) domestic servant, for a local farmer in Alciston (who held 13,411 acres); in the same census, her husband Henry Stephens was listed as being in the same village, living with their son, Eli. Henry Stevens (sic) was listed in the 1867 Kelly's Post Office Directory as being a glazier in Alciston - one of only 7 listed tradesmen.
In 1881, Elizabeth was listed as being a widow 'farmer with 3 acres'. There is no listing of workers, working her land. She has a grandson living with her, aged 8. How on earth could a 67-year-old woman work 3 acres? How did she come by this land (although thanks, Meles, for perhaps making sense of this?).
And why earlier, in 1871, was she working as a servant in a farm, whilst her husband and son lived somewhere else?
I particularly don't understand this last occurrence. Hmmmm.
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the census was a list of people who were at the address on census night, one night in ten years, they might not have necessarily lived there, hence relationship to the head of household.
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Hi,
The census only shows where a person was on census night.
She might have owned the land but rented it to someone else.
How clear is the image for 1881 census?
Nanny Jan
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Thanks for that, Toni and Nanny Jan!
It could mean that my g-g-g-grandmother was just at the farm that day/night, when the 1871 census was taken. That makes sense.
Not sure what you mean though, Nanny Jan, about renting out her land to someone else. Her second husband was dead; she is listed as being a 'farmer of 3 acres' on the 1881 census. There is no listing on the census of any other workers of her land.
xxx
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When did she die? Do you have her death certificate?
She may well have been a farmer on 3 acres aged 67. No pensions, so people worked until they dropped but I would assume that the amount of employees wasnt said on the census and some ag labs were probably working on the farm.
Ben
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ag labs did not always live on the farm, the could work on a farm and live with their parents for example
some census entries do show employees for exampel farmer of 3 acres employing 2 men and 2 boys but not all did it was up to the enumarator i think.
and also up to the informant on how mcuh they said
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http://www.doncasterfhs.co.uk/talks/documents/june%202006.pdf
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In my part of the country - Northumberland / Scottish Borders Ag Labs went to the Hiring Fairs - I'm not sure at what time of year - and were hired for the season or sometimes if they were lucky they were hired permanently and then they were given a house by the farmer. Several of my ancestors live around the same area for a number of years but others moved frequently . Luck of the draw or wre the permanent ones harder workers?
A study of Poor Law settlement examinations has revealed that over 90% of hirings took place at Michaelmas, Martinmas, or May Day. The Agricultural Wages Board, established under the 1917 Corn Production Act, was probably responsible for the demise of the Hiring Fairs.
The Times has three reports on the decline of the Hiring Fairs.
11th Nov. 1919. "At the first of the yearly agricultural hiring fairs....held at Driffield yesterday, the attendance of farmers was nil, although farm hands attended in hundreds. The farmers' absence is taken to be an effect of the Corn Production Act, with its schedule of minimum weekly wages, which may result in the total extinction of these hiring fairs, which have been a recognized institution for generations."
18th. May 1921. "The revolution caused by the wages boards in the agricultural industry was strikingly illustrated at Lincoln yesterday, when, at the May statutory hiring fair.......not a single hiring was reported......Almost all farm labourers now work for weekly wages without board, the living-in system having been abolished."
6th. June 1938. "The majority of Westmorland farmers who attended the hiring fair at Kendal on Saturday....left without making engagements because of the high wages asked by the workers."
Stan
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the fairs are also mentioned in the link i provided earlier form Doncaster fhs
http://www.doncasterfhs.co.uk/talks/documents/june%202006.pdf
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Thank you all very much for all this helpful information - much to mull over!
In answer to coombs: she died (I'm almost certain) in 1890, aged 76 (outliving 2 husbands, and 5 of her 8 children). I'm going to order her death certificate, and her marriage certificate to her second husband as soon as I can - hopefully, these may tell me a bit more about her life.
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the tithe map/s of the area may help, these are at ESCRO which is at Lewes
also she may appear in the directories of that time, i only say may as she was not a tradesman of sorts but pig framer or something similar do sometimes appear
these are available on historicaldirectoies.org and genuki.
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An update on this: I've found that Henry Stephens/Stevens (Elizabeth's second husband and father of her last child, Eli) was a 'farmer and cowkeeper' on the 1861 census (I can't quite read the rest). He's listed as being aged 60 and unmarried - his son, Eli, who's living with Elizabeth in the same village, is by then aged 6.
This probably explains how, by 1881, Elizabeth, after Henry's death in 1875 (I'm fairly sure), got to end up herself as a 'farmer of 3 acres' - presumably, having a small herd of cows on a 3-acre plot wouldn't involve a load of labourers. I suppose I've assumed that it would have been 3 acres of arable land.
What I need to do is get some more Ancestry credits and shell out for some BMD certificates. The information is out there!
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Hi,
She may have had some casual help but three acres would not have provided an income for her never mind employing someone
Three acres is a very small farm maybe a few chickens and a milk cow and calf . An acre is 70yards x 70 yards.
Renard
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Hi, I've found your thread so insteresting.
My 3 x G Grandmother was widowed twice. She then took up farming, with no live in laborers or servants. In the last two census she had increased her acres of land and was farming 20 acres at the age of 77. She died 9 years later, so I'm unsure how long she continued to farm.
I suspect that it was a tied farm. I have been to see the farm and it is now a an out building used for storage, linked to a much a bigger newer farm but you can tell it was once a very small old farm house.
I've found very little on the net about independent women farmers.
Good luck with your search.
Fiona :)