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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: lyndyloo6 on Saturday 23 August 08 08:25 BST (UK)
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Hi Guys,
Whilst doing my research over the last couple of weeks, I have come across reports on the census that several of the men are listed as 'Chelsea Pensioner's, even though one of them was in his 40's. I was not aware that 'chelsea pensioner's were outside London, but then I do not know that much about army service. There seems to be several in Bervie. One I turned up last night in the 1851 census was Alexander Smith, Fishergate, Bervie. He is listed as Baker, (journeyman) and Chelsea pensioner. Can anyone help please?
kind regards,
Lynda
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The Chelsea Pensioners as we know them today are the 'In-Pensioners' ie they live in the Royal Hospital. Any soldier who received a pension used to be called a Chelsea Pensioner and were 'Out-Pensioners' if they received their pension at home. Hope that helps.
Daff
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Hi Daff,
Thanks for this, was a bit surprised when this came up.
Regards,
Lynda
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An Alexander Smith was buried in the Old Kirkyard, Inverbervie in 1872 but there is no gravestone. He is likely to be the same person as he is the only one of that name.
I'll have a look at the 1861 and 1871 Census of Inverbervie at the Library here and get back to you.
Isles.
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Hi Isles,
Is that the kirkyard on the hill in the centre of Bervie?
I was up there 2 weeks ago and traipsing around it looking for Welsh's. My Gt Gran Susan Allan/ Welsh lived there, so I was there on the off chance. I then was advised to go to Gourdon. We were there and went to the bar on the harbour. We had a cup of tea there and the bar man came out and asked what are you doing here, so I explained I was researching my family. I then said is there any Welsh's living in the area and he pointed to the end of the harbour. It turn out that my mums cousin has boats and a fish shop on the harbour. My mum died when I was 15, so the family lost touch and this was the first time I had met any of them since the early 1970's at my grandad funeral. Anyway, the upturn was that we went back and got some information and photos of family which has spurred me on no end, and of course I promised a copy of the family history to my mums cousins. The Smiths are on my Welsh's side, so any info would be great.
Thank you, much appreciated.
Regards,
Lynda
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Yes, the kirkyard is on the hill called Kirkburn. As promised here is the 1861 and 1871 Census of Fishergate.
Fishergate West.
Alexander Smith 73 Baker born St Cyrus
Ann " 74 born Kinneff
Jane " 22 Out Worker born Bervie
Fishergate.
Alexander Smith, widower, 82 Pensioner b. St Cyrus.
Jean " , daughter 34 Servant Domestic b. Bervie.
I have a connection to Dougie Welsh in that my mother Isabella Moncur Dickson and his mother Isobel Moncur are 2nd cousins making Dougie and myself 3rd cousins.
Isles.
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I fogot to mention that Alexander Smiths wife, Ann is also buried in the Old Kirkyard. She died in 1869 aged 81.
Isles.
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There are record books of the pensions paid to Chelsea Out-Pensioers . They state the amount paid and at which place it was collected.. this together with the dates enabled me to track my out-pensioner from Halifax to Accrington, and was a good reference for other info I had.
charlotte
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Hi There,
Many thanks for all this info. You have all been a great help. Dougie Welsh is my mums cousin, so I guess we have a link
Kind regards to you all.
Lynda
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There are record books of the pensions paid to Chelsea Out-Pensioers . They state the amount paid and at which place it was collected.. this together with the dates enabled me to track my out-pensioner from Halifax to Accrington, and was a good reference for other info I had.
charlotte
Hi Charlotte,
Any idea how I can search these records? My 3x great grandfather Kenneth M(a)cKay was a Chelsea Pensioner in Inverness. He died some time between December 1843 and December 1846 I believe. Of course there are no death records on line but I think his wife C/Katherine continued to recieve his pension as a Chelsea Pension Widow. I presume you could find out from these records when he died. I know very little about his family and, being a MacKay doesn't help! I have been unable to find any trace of a marriage for him or birth for his daughter Helen/Ellen who, according to the 1851 census was born in Johnshaven. Her age varies wildly on the census so she could have been born anywhere between about 1800-25. I can't find any registers for Johnshaven on Scotlands People so I'm guessing there aren't any. ???
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Hi sheena58, It's more than 10 years ago I worked thru the Chelsea Out pensioners film at the LDS and traced my Jonasso the detail of how I got the film is hazy.
I asked about it at the LDS Family History Centre and then ordered the film. I knew he'd died in 1846 so was looking at the peiood beteen discharge in 1825 and 1846. It gave the daily rate and named the pension Offices where he wished to collect it- this enabled me to track him.
I suggest you go to your nearest LDS FHCentre and ask them to help you get the film-
sorry not to be more help but the detail escapes me-maybe you can look the film # up on the LDS website.
charlotte
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Thanks Charlotte,
I will try to find out where my nearest LDS centre is. I am not actually too far from Kew but more than a day-trip away if I'm to spend any time there and the local B&Bs are only too aware of the monpoly they have on us hapless researchers so it makes for a very expensive trip!
Sheena
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Re Chelsea Pensioners
Having one ancestor who was an out Chelsea pensioner living in Johnshaven I found that he received a pension of 1 shilling and sixpence per week and which was later reduced to 1 shilling per week. My ancestor was a corporal in what was first described as the Scotch Regiment then became the 94 Reg of Foot which later formed part of the Connaught Rangers. The aforesaid was in the Peninsular Wars and Queen Victoria later issued a medal in the 1840s to those pensioners still living
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Hi farah... and welcome to rootschat ;D
Lucky you getting the medal...y chap died in 1846, too eraly for the issue of the Peninsular. It sure took them a ling while to get arou nd to issuing that medal!
charlotte
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Regarding my previous entry It may be of interest to those who have pensioners listed in their tree and from the east coast.
I found that my ancestor and his two brothers who were originally from Ellon in Aberdeenshire had enlisted in the Aberdeen and Kincardineshire Militia and were in 1802 stationed at the Barracks in Montrose prior to entering the Scotch Regiment
The battle clasps on the medal which was the Military General Service Medal issued 1840 showed that the regiment, 94th Regiment of Foot had fought in the following battles of the Penninsular War viz:-Pyrenees, Victoria,Nivelle,Nive, Orthes and ToulouseHope the aforesaid may point you in the right direction for research The lists of names in the Militia can be got on the internet I was mistaken in the pension it was 1 shilling and threepence and may have been per day and not per week I am not sure on that
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I think the rates were daily...not weekly.
My RSM got 2/6 per day which seems quite a decent amount.
charlotte
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hi,
I also have a relative, william esson/easson (1785-1866) from the 94th, stationed in india in 1804, then in the peninsular wars 'til 1814.
He is living in fordoun in 1841 as a chelsea pensioner.
farah, you mention militia lists online for aberdeen/kincardineshire, can I ask you where I might find them?
best wishes
gordon
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Regarding the list of pensioners ,to be honest it was such a long time ago that I forget whether it was off the internet or from the local library in Bervie
I will look through my bundle of handwritten records of which there are stacks and see if I can find the list which I had in print.
Will get back to you on that. What I do remember was that a Col.or Cpt Ogilvie was in charge of the section which had the three brothers Fotheringham.
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You shouldn't have to wait too long before the next tranche of discharge papers is online with findmypast.
This is the timetable
WO97 1760-1854 [discharge date] records 184,000 images 1.2 million By July 2010
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not long back from Kew, the records there were off being digitized so the timing of my visit wasn't best. Did get to check some muster rolls though.
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I have found the list where my ancestor was mentioned and it was from a web site www.abdn66.freeserve.co.uk/militia2.htm which was headed Kincardineshire Volunteers Listings of those who volunteered to join the militia between the years 1798 to 1816 and which I have tried to enter tonight but it does not show up. The list I have is for Captain Robert Barclays Company probably the same Barclays associated with Brotherton Castle and Im sorry to say that the name you are looking for isnt on this list
There was another site where I found that one of the Fotheringhams Alexander was wounded and shipped home from the Mysore war in India and the web site I believe was named Cindys List
Sorry I wasnt of more help
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Further to my previous message Try the following web site of Colin Milnes and when on it check out articles where he has lists of Kincardineshire Militia web address is http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nescotland/index.html
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many thanks farah, i'll have a look..
best wishes
gordon
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Hi Farah
I am currently researching the 94th Regiment of Foot. I have started a living history group, and we are now wearing the uniforms as they looked in the Peninsula wars. I am trying to get information from living relatives from anyone whose relatives served in the regiment fromm 1800 - 1818. We are also in contact with the National Army Museum in London to see if there are any artefacts belonging to the regiment in the museum.
If you have any information that would help in my research I would be truly grateful.
Thanks John
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Hi John,
You are probably aware of this but just in case!! Google Soldier Magazine,select Digital Edition,scroll down left side and select September 2012. Starting on page 43 there is a 5 page article on The Peninslar War. Incidentally, some time ago I read in a book that the Regimental Colours of the 94th were laid up in Edinburgh Castle after disbandment in 1818. Unfortunately I can't find my reference.
Regards.Jim.