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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: bulsara on Saturday 23 August 08 22:07 BST (UK)
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William Francis Dunston left his wife and kids in UK and went to USA .I have now found out that he stayed in America until he died and "married" Brownie Johnson.
This one is not for me but for a friend who to is related to the wife he left behind.Sadly the poor wife died not knowing what had happened to him.
I would like to find out all that I can for my friend .
bulsara
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Do yoy know when he immigrated to the US, what state he went to and the approximate date of the bigamous marriage?
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He went in 1910 to Ellis Island but I think he worked on the ships for a while before he emigrated.He was naturalized in1918.
I am not 100% if the name of bigamous wife is correct.bulsara
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There is a lot of information on William Francis Dunstan, born in England in 1878 and married to Brownie H. He lived in Seattle, Washington and was a musician. If you think this is the right man, I'll send you the information by PM.
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Gosh, I'll never learn how to use bold.
He also worked in the shipyards. This does not seem to be the William Francis Dunston who came through Ellis Island in 1910. This man arrived in 1900 and was naturalized in 1908. By 1908 he was married to Brownie H. Bailey and had 2 children.
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It's all a bit of a puzzle.
Our William was born in Chorlton 1874 ,married Alice Ann Harris in Bury 1893.One of his daughters Edna Louise was born in 1895,not too sure about date of her sister Phyliss's birth.All the family knew was that he went off,they must have known he was working on the ships though as they thought he had gone down on the Titanic.It wasn't until I started looking for them that I found the other details.He lied about his true age when he emigrated as it stated he was 42 when he was 36 so he probably lied about other things too.
bulsara
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This William Francis Dunstan arrived in NY on 10 Feb 1900 on the ship, City of St. Louis. Some things are consistant on all the documents: he was born in England in Sep 1878, father born in Australia, mother born in England.
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I am now thinking that I must be wrong about Brownie but then what happened to our WFD?
bulsara
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The William Francis Dunston [with an 'o'] who arrived at Ellis Island in 1910 listed his profession as 'butler.' In the 1920 census, this man is in North Hempstead, Nassau County, NY with his wife Ellen. His age is recorded as 43; his wife 44. He was working as a butler in a private home. Ellen was a dressmaker working at home and she was listed as the head of household. She was also an immigrant from England, arrived in 1908. They were both naturalized.
If you think this is the right man, let me know. I crossed him off before because of the wife's name and because the other guy was married to a woman named Brownie, which struck me as an unusual name.
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You are being most helpful for me many thanks. ;D
I really ought to change the title of this thread to Willie met Ellen then? lol
I know that the 1910 date is correct as it ties up with the name of his brother on the ships manifest.No mention of real wife Ann.I'd love to find out more about Ellen.I wonder if he met her when he was working as a steward on the ships or if he knew her in England and just decided to run off to USA with her.Would love to know her single surname.
Any info you could find for me would be most gratefully received.I wonder if he had children with Ellen,when he died etc
bulsara
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Intriguing thread!
William and Ellen not popping up for me in 1930 -- either together or apart. Maybe Erato is having better luck since she had a "bead" on them ??
Something maybe of future interest from the 1920 citing, the others on the page are not wealthy people with servants. So I don't think William and Ellen are working in the household in which they are living. The widowed head of the Sarah F. Robertson household (where they are living) says she is renting and the Dunstons are renting also. Since they are not classified as "Lodgers" maybe they are renting another house on the property ??
I looked for Sarah F. Robertson in 1930, she seems to have moved to Great Neck, NY and has another Lodger living with them.
Sorry :'( no real help there but maybe it adds to the story somehow ......
lissa
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I have not found them in 1930 either. A lot of Ellens entered the US from England in 1908. Iīll keep poking around to see if we can find a possible surname for Ellen.
You say William was born in Chorlton. I'm a bit ignorant of English geography. Where is this? Could he have met Ellen there?
Erato
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Hi Erato, to keep you going and in case "bulsara" is out for the day, from Wikipedia:
Chorlton-cum-Hardy suburb of the City of Manchester, North West England, known locally as Chorlton; about 4 miles southwest of Manchester City Centre. Chorlton was a village on the southern border of Lancashire, separate from Manchester but became part of the City in 1904. Chorlton-cum-Hardy not be confused with Chorlton-on-Medlock, a different area closer to the center of Manchester
I'm wondering if William and Ellen were really married ???
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Looking more carefully at that 1920 census, it looks like Ellen claimed to have arrived in 1912 and was naturalized in 1916; William claimed arrival in 1908 and naturalized in 1916. It's hard to read.
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Erato, you are right, very hard to read --- Ellen's Imm could be 1910 1912 or 1913 Naturalization seems clear for 1916.
Transcriber though Ellen immigrated in 1810 ::)
The proverbial needle in a haystack if she came over unmarried or w/ a 1st husband's name ??? And even more so if she missed the 1910 !!
Is it now confirmed that the William w/ wife Brownie in Seattle was a red herring ??
lissa
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I guess he is a red herring .... too bad, thereīs tons of information on him.
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Bulsara - where did you come across the name of Brownie Johnson?
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I think that I am hitting the end of the line. Two things:
1. A William Francis Dunston died 16 Dec 1953 in Newport, Rhode Island. Newport is the kind of place an English butler might find work. I can find no other refernce to him in Rhode Island.
2. There actually was a person by the name of Brownie Johnson. She was an American citizen who arrived in NY in 1907 aboard the Cedric. She was apparently travelling with her parents and brother. No age given for anyone in the family, no place of residence in the US. I can find no other reference to Brownie Johnson.
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My you both have been very busy on my behalf,many thanks.
You were right I have been out all day-had 2 grandchildren to keep amused.Done crazy golf and 10 pin bowling with lunch out.Have to keep them out of the house as much as possible as one of them is allergic to all my cats.
You at least have found out when he died,where did you find that? I wonder what was on his gravestone.
I thought that I had found a breakthrough when I found Brownie J,it was on family search under the record search pilot.I guess I jumped on that one too quick. lol
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I don't know that the Rhode Island death is the correct individual. If you Google "William Francis Dunston" you will find a list of deaths in Newport, RI 1953.
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I can't find it. :-[
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The title is Necrology of Newport, Newport County, Rhode Island - 1953.
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Thanks found it now.I wonder if it is him.
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You could try the Newport Public Library. They might be able to find an obituary or death announcement.
http://www.newportlibraryri.org/
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Good job, Erato You put in a lot of hard work on that one!!
Good luck, Bulsara -- hope you and your friend are able to put together the pieces
;D ;D ;D
lissa
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Obit from Newport Daily News, 17 Dec. 1953
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i210/shellyesq/Dunston-1.jpg)
WWI Draft Registration Card
William Francis Dunston
Oakland, Somerset, Maine
Age 44, born 15 Jul. 1874
White, naturalized US citizen
Occupation: farmer
Employer: W.F. Dunston, R.2. Norridgewock. Somerset
Wife Ellen Dunston, R. 35, Oakland 35, Somerset, Maine
Also -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i210/shellyesq/DunstonMrs.jpg)
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Damn, this is confusing. Is the butler also a red herring? Is the WFD who arrived in 1910 the NY butler; is he the Newport butler? Are there two butlers? Did the butler have a first wife named Ellen? Are there two Ellens? Did the farmer later become a butler?
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Oh dear what a confusion.
Before WFD first went to USA he worked as a waiter,he called himself a "professional waiter".This makes me think he left the first wife,made a few trips across the pond as a steward on the ships.I think maybe then he decided he wanted to stay in USA.
If we could find out who H E Aitkin was it might help.That's who he first worked for in New York when he first emigrated.He was a butler then.
Trouble with this one is the more we don't know the more it is making us want to know.
bulsara
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I can't help with H E Aitkin, but here's some material about the address given for him/her on William's Ellis Island manifest (130 W 57 St New York):
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM380K
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID084.htm
Anna :)
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Was the real WF Dunston born on 15 July 1874? Is the farmer a legitimate possibility for his whereabouts in 1917?
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WOW!!!
Very Quickly, on my way out the door......the "Baltic" manifest from 1910 identified the 130 W 57th address as the Metropolitan Club, a private, membership men's club. From the notes on the 2nd page of the manifest, I assumed the HE Aitkin mentioned was his employer/boss.
WFD both a butler and a farmer!! In 1917 he's in Maine Farming w/ Ellen and in 1920 he's in Nassau Co., w/ Ellen being a butler. And then a long career around the world w/ Violet as a Butler to the wealthy. Creative guy!!! An international man of mystery ??
Also, his naturalization in 1918 (Feb 14, I think) gave the 57th St address too.
Darn! If I wasn't leaving on vacation, I'd be delving into who is Violet Tarling ?? And if Ellen died or they were never married at all !! or is the same person as Violet??
I'm sure you have it all figured out when I get back! LOL!
Erato, looks like you've got another long day of research ahead of you !!
lissa :)
Erato, just saw your last message before sending this, they often registered older men for the war. I've seen registrations for men in their 50-60's!!! so 43 would not be out of the question at all.
Parallel universe or did he have reason (other than bigamy in England) to be a illusive ?? You've all seen the Julia Child and the OCS story recently ???
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The obits of the Newport butler and his wife Violet show that he spent time working in Melbourne.
I wonder whether this is them on a trip to Melbourne (from FindMyPast outbound passenger lists)?
SS Baradine
London-Australia departing 6 Nov 1924
Dunston William Caterer 43
Dunston Violet Irene Wife 33
both American citizens contracted to land at Melbourne. Last address in the UK: 80 Pretoria Road, Leytonstone, E.
Anna :)
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Dunston Violet Irene Wife 33
Birth: Violet Irene TARLING Dec 1889 Hemel Hempstead 3a 582
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Violet I. TARLING, clerk, 29, sailed on the SS Carmania departing Liverpool 20 September 1919. She was contracted to land at Halifax, Nova Scotia; intended place of future permanent residence was Canada. (Per outbound passenger lists, www.findmypast.com).
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30 September 1919, Violet enters the US from Halifaz, Nova Scotia. Unfortunately, the record is largely illegible.
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30 September 1919, Violet enters the US from Halifaz, Nova Scotia. Unfortunately, the record is largely illegible.
So she does! And still on the Carmania, so probably barely set foot (if at all) in Canada.
She's once again described as a clerk - English - last permanent residence London - nearest relative is her father at 80 Pretoria Rd, Leytonstone (the same address as was given on the passenger list to Melbourne).
Her final destination is Malone, N.Y.
Anna
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From the 1919 border entry:
Tarling, Violet, age 29 (definitely a 2, but the second number is hard to read), female, single, occupation - clerk (something below clerk is illegible), citizen of England, last permanent residence - London, England, nearest relative - 80 Pretoria Road, something like Layttonsfane, England, final destination - Malone, New York, going to join brother Albert, 6 Washington Ave., Malone, NY, planning to stay permanently, born King Langley, Herts., England
(I was typing at the same time as Anna.)
I can see Violet in the 1901 Census in Watford, Hertfordshire with her parents & 7 siblings, but no Albert.
In 1891, they're in the same town and Albert J.C. Tarling is there. He's age 8, a scholar, and born Hackney, London.
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Ah - good stuff, Shellyesq - I didn't think to go over to the next page!
Anna
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Malone is pretty far from NYC; in Franklin County, up by the Canadian border. I wonder what she was doing up there?
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There are two private trees on Ancestry that have Violet Tarling listed. Only a few sources, so the people might not have any more info than we do, but maybe someone wants to make contact to see.
Albert and his wife Ada and son Eric are in Malone in the 1920 Census. It says he immigrated 1913. No Violet, though.
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1920 census - Abert Tarling, Malone, Franklin County, NY; age39; with wife Ada and son Eric. advertizer, billboards; all came to US in 1913. There's no sign of Violet.
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Here'a guess.
Around WWI, a member of the menīs club in NY needed a caretaker for his summer place, a quaint New England farm in the historic village of Norridgewock, Maine. William took the job and, for some reason, decided to call himself a farmer on his draft papers. Maybe he thought it sounded better than caretaker.
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William married Violet on 23 (or is it 20?) September 1921 in Manhattan. Certificate 4257.
http://www.italiangen.org/NYCmarriageresults.asp?kind=exact&Esurname=dunston&Efirst=william&CertNbr=&StartYear=&EndYear=&B1=Submit
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Photos of the graves of William and Violet in Friends Cemetery, Newport, Rhode Island:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSfn=&GSmn=&GSln=dunston&GSby=&GSbyrel=in&GSdy=&GSdyrel=in&GScntry=4&GSst=42&GSob=n
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I don't know what is happening today but 2 posts that I have tried to put on would not go.
Right lets try again.
Known fact.
WFD was born j/a/s 1874 Chorlton
WFD married Alice Ann Harris 1893 Bury
I know of no connections to farming or the military.
In uk he was hotel waiter,then a restaurant manager.
I think when he left his wife and worked on the ships he was a steward.It seems that then becoming a butler in usa was a fitting job for him.
bulsara
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He moved up in the world. Check out photos of the mansions in Newport, Rhode Island, including this one owned by the Goelet family during Williams years as a butler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochre_Court
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"Ochre Court owner Ogden Goelet was not only a noted banker and real estate investor, but one of the most famous competitive yachtsmen in the world. His wife, Mary Wilson Goelet, was one of the most important hostesses of her generation in a time when the operation of Ochre Court during a typical eight-week summer season required twenty-seven house servants, eight coachmen and grooms, and twelve gardeners. "
http://www.salve.edu/virtualtour/buildings/ochre_court.html
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Brief biographical note on Robert Walton Goelet:
http://books.google.com.ec/books?id=FNPoVchaehwC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=%22ogden+goelet%22+%22robert+walton+goelet%22&source=web&ots=M-dixUpRW_&sig=qPPnfQFoZKo3Hz6Pthva6bdEeL4&hl=es&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
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All men of a certain age range were required to register for the drafts in WWI and WWII, so the existence of a draft registration card doesn't mean he had any connection to the military or that he was ever drafted or served.
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Biography of Sir Keith Murdoch:
http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100610b.htm
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Has anyone been able to find the maiden name of Ellen yet?
bulsara
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You might want to try asking for a look-up on the New York death index as explained by Kate here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,316609.msg2001940.html#msg2001940 If Ellen was alive in 1920 and William was remarried in 1921, she might have died in one of those years. Of course, they could have gotten divorced or he could be a bigamist times 2 or she could have died in another state, but I think it would be worth checking.
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I havn't had any luck identifying Ellen. There are many immigrants named Ellen in 1912, lots from England. And since the 1920 census isn't very clear, I'm not even certain that 1912 is the correct year. I thought she might appear in the naturalization records with William since they were together in 1917 and 1920, ostensibly married, but I didn't find her. I didn't find any useful records in Maine, either.
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I am seeing my friend next week and hopefully she will be bringing a pic of WFD.I'll try and post it in here.
bulsara
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So where was William in 1910? According to the ship manifest he had already been in the US for 4 years and was employed by and lived with H. E. Aitken at 130 W 57 St, New York. But I don't see him on the census or Aitken, either.
I am guessing that H.E. Aitken was Harry E. Aitken, film producer and distributor, who was listed in a 1915 NY directory. Who knows, maybe William buttled for Mary Pickford and Charlie Chaplin.
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Is there anywhere were I can get free access to us census's from uk?
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I have just found all your information on William Francis Dunston and he was my aunt's father in law. I see that your interest came via the Harris line and have just come across some "grave deeds" that relate to this side of the family. It appears that WFD's son was buried in this plot in 1946. If you would like more on this matter' will do so.
Did you ever get a picture of him - I do have a picture of his son Fred.
The information about WFD and his butlering around the States makes fascinating reading.
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Hi nakuru - Welcome to RC. This was an interesting thread. I hope bulsara shows up and gets back to you; I see s/he was online about 10 days ago.
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Hi nakuru,
I would be very interested in anything you can tell me about WFD.
I look forward to hearing from you. I would be interested to see the picture of his son Fred.
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Thank you both for replying - so good to know that there are people out there !!!
I actually know very little about William Francis Dunston - he is shown on the marriage certificate of his son Fred Hartley Dunston as Francis William Dunston - deceased. There is no occupation given. I found a marriage to Alice Ann Harris in 1893 in Bury. Found WFD on 1891 census - single and working as a waiter. Then found him with wife Alice and 2 children Edna and Fred on 1901 census now a head waiter in Chester. On 1911 census Alice was living with her married sister Elizabeth in Cheetham together with 3 children. She states that she is married and has been married for 18 years, had 8 children of whom only 3 were still living. Still doing research to see if I can find the births and deaths of the other children - how sad though.
I had searched all the UK records for a death for WFD but given up hope of finding out what had happened until I googled his name and found all the threads on him.
I had recently found the grave deeds in the name of Dunston, Harris and Hartley and have done further research to see how Hartley came into the picture - that was Alice's mother's maiden name. The deeds were for a grave at Cheetham Hill but this cemetery was closed in 1966 and in 2003 there was an exhumation of 20,000 bodies and they were all reinterred in a mass grave at Bury.
Think that I had better stop may have reached a limit.
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nakuru
Can you give me the link to the grave deeds you found please?
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Sorry, when I said that I had found them I meant that I had found some pieces of paper in a bundle of papers belonging to my aunt. Although the envelope says that they are grave deeds - they are receipts for each internment - saying "opening of family grave" - also costs for engraving etc. As far as I am aware non of this information is available over the internet. Each receipt is for the same grave number - I plan to try and get in touch with Bury Cemetery and see if they have any records for this grave number. If I do get any information I will post it.
I have found a baptism record for William Francis Dunston on 9 August 1874 at St John the Baptists Church, Hulme, states parents are William and Louise and that at the time they were residing in Hulme. This was from Family Search.org. Feel sure that this is our WFD. Will try and post picture of his son - please bear with me. I have not been able to find any details for EFD's brother Fred. I shall just keep looking - it would certainly be good to get the bottom of this story.
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I think the saddest part to this story is that his poor wife lived the rest of her life thinking he had gone down with the Titanic,when in fact he was living his new life in America.
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I have been doing a bit of work on the "grave deeds" that I found and they refer to burials at Manchester Cheetham Hill Wesleyan Cemetery. Alice Ann Dunston was buried there on 27 February 1920. What is so sad though is that in 2003 there was an exhumation of 20,000 bodies and they were all reinterred in a mass grave at Bury Cemetery. I rang Bury and they told me that all the headstones had been destroyed and that I might get further information from Manchester Archives - they were not able to give me any information when I contacted them, but said that I could make an appointment to go and search their records. As of yet I have not been able to do that.
Have you been able to find any other information?
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I have not been able to find out anymore about this.Haven't done any research for the last couple of years since my husband suddenly passed away.
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Hi,
In regards to the Wesleyan Cemetery, Cheetham Hill.
Manchester Library and the LDS hold a film of the monumental Inscriptions taken before the removal of the Gravestones. Only basic information taken down.
F***M*P*** have put some burial records on their website (pay per view :'()
I do have my own index for the monumental inscription if you want anyone looking up just let me know
Cancan :)