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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 08:58 BST (UK)

Title: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 08:58 BST (UK): Good evening one and all!

Just new here, so thought I might pop in and say Hi!

A quick question also, does anyone have access to look up Australian electoral rolls at all??

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: sillgen on Monday 25 August 08 09:07 BST (UK): Hi Belinda
Welcome to rootschat. If nobody picks up on your query you may need to repost it on the Australia board. If you look at the look up offers on that it will help you to see what is available. What sort of date are you talking about?
Andrea
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 09:39 BST (UK): thanks andrea!

any chance you could point me in the right direction to the australian boards? i'm trying to pinpoint the time when a particular relative was living in australia. trying to narrow this down might help a search of immigration/emmigration records.

thanks again :)

belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: Arranroots on Monday 25 August 08 09:43 BST (UK): Hi Belinda

Welcome!

I've moved your thread to the correct board - fire away!

Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 09:44 BST (UK): Give us as much information as you have, and there's a few people here who can probably help, Belinda. :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 09:50 BST (UK): Welcome Aboard :)

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 10:00 BST (UK): Thanks everyone!

And thankyou for the topic move! :)

I'm searching for a lad by the name of Leander Johnson. He was married to Sarah Annie Wagner (Waggon?). They married in New Zealand, and came over to AUS with some of their children, and had more children when they arrived here. They lived in NSW for as long as I know, until I think that Leander and Sarah moved back to NZ...

Having said that, I've also been told that one of their daughters Rosetta Louise Johnson was adopted by them.

I have three other children to them that I know of, which i found searching the death records on the NSW BDM historical indexes.

those three kids, and their death dates are:

10659/1895 JOHNSON CHARLES H
14762/1895 JOHNSON ERNEST
70900/1972 JOHNSON JAMES EMIL

and Rosetta's death details are:
Registration Number Last Name Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given Name(s) District Purchase Certificate
32313/1967 CUPITT ROSETTA LOUISE LEANDER SARAH ANNIE BOWRAL

Thanks in advance, I'm sure I may have left some stuff out, but that's all I can think of at the moment. Apparently Leander & Sarah had a largeish family - around about 8 kids or so??

Will be writing off to the NZ BDM people tomorrow, but just not sure if they can help?

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 10:07 BST (UK): Do you have an approx year when they might have moved back to NZ?

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 10:17 BST (UK): In 1930 there is a Leander John Johnson listed at Tahmoor Road, Thirlmere, NSW. Occupation = rigger
There's an Olive Johnson, home duties with him.

There's also an Irene Madoline Johnson of Independant Means listed as just being of Tahmoor.

Is this the Leander you are looking for, or maybe one of the sons?

There's an entry for 1936 I can transcribe if you think they're part of the family.

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 10:23 BST (UK): Hi Deeiluka,

Insteresting that you should find that. One of the deaths that i posted up earlier was a son of Leander John Johnson, who was married to a Sarah Annie. I would be assuming that they're one and the same. Perhaps Olive is maybe his sister? Or a child.

This could be the Leander I'm looking for. Is there any other info you have??

As for the question on when they returned to New Zealand? I have no idea...hence the reason I was looking to the electoral roles or census data to determine when they were here

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 10:31 BST (UK): Belinda....here's what there is for 1936.....

Leander John Johnson Dora St Dora Creek NSW rigger
Olive Johnson Dora St Dora Creek home duties

Also in Dora Creek are
John Crawford Johnson, Eraring Dora Creek labourer
Esther Jean Johnson Eraring Home Duties
Thomas Johnson Dora Creek Labourer
Lillie Frances Johnson Dora Creek Home Duties
Robert William Johnson A.M. College Cooranbong Teacher
Olive Edith Johnson A.M. College Cooranbong Household Duties

More info to come....

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 10:35 BST (UK): Ok, I was just wondering as I am from NZ

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 10:42 BST (UK): Thanks Dee, I look forward to your next post.

Newbe, I have a headstone in NZ for a Sarah Ann Johnson.

I have no idea if this is one and the same though.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 10:48 BST (UK): What is the year you have for Sarah Ann Johnson as there a quite a few.

Are there any other names that i might be able to look up on the NZSG burial locator for you.

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 10:52 BST (UK): Hi Newbe,

Just focusing on Leander Johnson & Sarah Ann Wagner (Waggon) at the moment. As I have no info on who these guys' parents are. It's a huge dead end for me.

Even if I can find out when Leander came to New Zealand to being with? He was apparently a Copra Trader *which doesn't tell me much*. Though rumour has it, he came from Finland. No idea on Sarah Annie. The only date I have is on the headstone for Sarah Ann which is 16/01/1962...

it's all very frustrating! :)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 10:57 BST (UK): Theseare the only three Leanders I can find

Source   Auckland City Library
Record Type   B/R
Year of Death   1929
Surname   LEANDER
Given Names   Henry Crittendon (Neilson)
Age   72
Location   Waikaraka Cemetery




Source   NZSG Cemetery Collection
Record Type   M/I
Year of Death   1952
Surname   LEANDER
Given Names   Gertrude Mary
Location   Karori Cemetery, Wellington





Source   NZSG Cemetery Collection
Record Type   M/I
Year of Death   1939
Surname   LEANDER
Given Names   James Joseph
Location   Karori Cemetery, Wellington

Source NZSG Burial Locator
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 10:59 BST (UK): Sorry Newbe, i think we have our lines crossed somewhere.

Leander is the first name. Johnson is the surname :(
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Monday 25 August 08 11:00 BST (UK): Hi Belinda,
This may be of interest to you also

In 1936 Bowral Eden Monaro
Rosetta Louise Cupitt Sheffield Rd home duties
Frederick Augustus Cupitt same address Labourer
regards
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 11:02 BST (UK): Leander John Johnson was in Queensland in 1925. he was at Apple Tree Creek, and his Occupation was given as rigger. No other Johnsons there.

But he is listed twice for 1925. The other listing has him as being at Salome, Outram St, Lota. Occupation = Rigger.
There are other Johnsons listed, but none for that address.

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:03 BST (UK): Mariac,

thanks! that's my Rosetta, Frederick Augustus is my Great Grandfather!
:) Though to add an address to the info is pretty cool :)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 11:03 BST (UK): Sorry my mistake ::)

Should have read it a bit better.

There are quite a few Johnson's but your Sarah Ann is not one of them.

Do you have the name of the cemetery she is buried at.

I also see you are going to get a cert from the BDM here in NZ
Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:05 BST (UK): Deeiluka,

I'm wondering if he stayed in the country and died up north? My grandmother can't tell me any more than his name, which is rather sad.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:07 BST (UK): Newbe,

I was hoping to fax the BDM in NZ tomorrow and at least get a birth cert for Rosetta Johnson, then work on the parent's marriage certificate. their parents should be on the marriage cert and hopefully a birth cert for each of them can follow... though i've been told someone tried before me and came up with nothing.

i can try, though!

Newbe,
The burial details I have are...

Surname    JOHNSON
First Names    SARAH ANN
Gender    F
Occupation    WIDOW
Address    294 RUAHINE STREET
Age at Death    70Y
Date of Death    16/01/1962
Date of Cremation    17/01/1962
Date of Interment
Place of Death
Cemetery    Kelvin Grove Cemetery
Denomination    Not Known
Area in Cemetery    ZZ
Cemetery Block
Plot Number
Plot Type    Ashes Scattered
Plot Depth    0.00
Book of Memories    Book of Memories
Plot Purchaser
Funeral Director    KELLS
Notes    POD PN PUBLIC HOSP

like i said, not 100% sure if it's the same Sarah, as I'm after a Sarah Annie ...
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 11:14 BST (UK): Belinda, in 1893 he was in NSW.
The Sands Directories for NSW and Sydney have him at 44 Goodsir St, Balmain as Leander Johnson.

In 1912 as Leander J Johnson he is at 3 Paul St, Balmain.

And in 1915 he is listed as Leander Johnson at 11 Susan St, Annandale.

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 11:18 BST (UK): Looking back I see you say that Rosetta may have been adopted.

Do you have her parents names as I may be able to find a marriage year on the 1848 to 1956 NZSG marriage cd
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:18 BST (UK): Hi Dee,

Just looking in NSW BDM and have Leander J married Olive Woodward. If this is one and the same as my Leander, that would debunk my cemetary entry above, as Sarah should then be a divorcee/spinster and not a widower...

hmm very interesting!

I'm not sure that he could be in AUS until at least 1916, as Rosetta was born in Auckland in 1912 - 1916
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:19 BST (UK): Quote from: newbe on Monday 25 August 08 11:18 BST (UK)
Looking back I see you say that Rosetta may have been adopted.

Do you have her parents names as I may be able to find a marriage year on the 1848 to 1956 NZSG marriage cd

the only parents i have for rosetta louise are Leander Johnson and Sarah Annie Wagner..

a marriage cert for them would be gold, though! :)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 11:24 BST (UK): These are the ones I have for a Saarh Ann Johnson

Source   North Shore City Council
Record Number   10649
Record Type   Burial
Year of Death   1934
Surname   JOHNSON
Given Names   Sarah Ann
Age   76
Location   O'Neills Point Cemetery



Source   Watney Sibun & Sons Collection
Record Type   Funeral Directors Records
Year of Death   1934
Surname   JOHNSON
Given Names   Sarah Ann
Age   76
Location   O'Neils Pt


Source   NZSG Papakura Cemetery Transcription
Record Number   479
Record Type   M/I
Year of Death   1943
Surname   JOHNSON
Given Names   Sarah Ann
Age   N/R
Location   Papakura Cemetery


Source   NZSG Cemetery fiche
Record Number   1559
Record Type   M/I
Year of Death   1934
Surname   JOHNSON
Given Names   Sarah Ann
Age   N/R
Location   Takapuna O'Neill's Point B02.09


Source   NZSG Cemetery fiche
Record Number   N/R
Record Type   B/R
Year of Death   1934
Surname   JOHNSON
Given Names   Sarah Ann
Age   N/R
Location   Takapuna O'Neill's Point B02.09



JOHNSON, Sarah Ann

Surname: JOHNSON
Forename(s): Sarah Ann
Age: 76 Years
Gender: Female
Date of death: 9 Jul 1934
Date of burial: 11 Jul 1934
Funeral director: Sibuns Funeral Directors
582 Remuera Road, Remuera, Auckland 1050
Cemetery: O'neill's Point Cemetery
King Edward Avenue, Bayswater
Location: Oneils Point Row X Plot 140

This is all I can find for now

Will keep looking

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:28 BST (UK): Anything under Sarah Annie Johnson at all?
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 11:32 BST (UK): Just to throw another puzzle into the pot.....

there's the following birth in Queensland......
Richard Johnson father Leander John Johnson and mother Madge St Claire ** now Raines was born in 1918
Ref = B28422

.......dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 11:32 BST (UK): Not at the moment but will keep looking.

No marriage for Leander Johnson and Sarah Annie Wagner (Waggon)

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:36 BST (UK): it's all getting very puzzling, isn't it??

I'm keen on the Dora Creek info, that's the only other thing I could get out of my grandmother was that leander & co were from dora creek
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 11:44 BST (UK): Certainly is ::)

Maybe I should wait and see what the birth cert says first before looking further.

Would one of your libraries have the BDM index on microfiche from NZ as this is the only way to look for birth death and marriage.

I would go and check them myself but am not well with the flu

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:47 BST (UK): Thanks Newbe,

I'll see what the NZ BDM people come up with, then work from there maybe.

Any ideas on immigration records at all??

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 11:47 BST (UK): Well, I think the information is probably all for the same Leander John......he was listed as Rigger every time.....

Leander is a very unusual name, and only the one Leander Johnson came up in the Ancestry search.

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 11:54 BST (UK): Not really without knowing an approximate year

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 11:57 BST (UK): I don't know if you already have this but..... on Find MY past there is a ships listing for a Leander J Johnson leaving the UK bound for Oz.

On the 26th August 1891 he left London bound for Sydney on board the PORT ALBERT ,it says he was age 8,although looking at the image it may be 3.

Travelling with him were...

Mrs J Waghorne age 58
Mrs A Johnson age 33
Leander J Johnson age 3
Edward A Johnson age 1

Could Mrs Waghorne have been grannie?

Best wishes

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Monday 25 August 08 11:59 BST (UK): fair call on that newbe.

might have to earbash my nan again tomorrow, try and jog her memory with some of the new info here and see what else i can get from her :)

G'day Carol,

thanks for that!

If the Leander J we're all speaking of is one and the same, quite possibly, I'm wondering how he went about adopting Rosetta (if this story, of course, is true).

b.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 12:02 BST (UK): Two marriages for Leander J Johnson in NSW.....he married Elsie M L Wooley at Lismore in 1910
Ref = 8832

and Olive Woodland in 1927 at Bankstown
Ref = 3966

I wonder if Leander J was the son of Leander.

and the three children you had deaths for are in the births Indexes for NSW....Emell JW being born in 1893 at Balmain West....which fits with the Sands Directory address for 1893.

One of those marriage certificate transcriptions could be very interesting and informative. :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 12:04 BST (UK): Don't earbash your nan too much :)

Will wait and see what else your nan has to say

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 12:08 BST (UK): Belinda, if you check the NSW deaths again, putting Leander in the father's name place, you'll see that leander J and Elsie had a daughter who died in 1914, and a son of Leander J and Olive Kate died in 1967.

Don't know if any of this is helping, but hopefully it will all fall into place eventually. :D :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 12:12 BST (UK): Going back a bit further in England,Free BMD has the March 1885 marriage of Leander Johnson to Sarah Annie Waghorn in Richmond Surrey .

I wonder if he travelled out to Oz earlier and Sarah(Annie) went with her mum and the kids later.

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 12:37 BST (UK): Carol, Looks to me like the Leander John I've been finding is indeed the son of Leander who married Sarah Anne Waghorn .....but I can't find his birth on FreeBMD. ??? :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Monday 25 August 08 12:38 BST (UK): Just to put another spanner in the works...

There is a Leander John Johnson on the naa site born in England aged 27 with a wife Elsie and 2 children. It includes a letter from Elsie.

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=1827212&I=1&SE=1
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 12:42 BST (UK): Great find, Maria. That fits with the Leander J that Carol found coming out in 1891 and the marriage to Elsie in 1910. :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 12:44 BST (UK): Dee

If he was 8 in 1891 as on the ships list,then he was born before his parents married-however he doesn't appear as Waghorn(e) either.

Nor can I find any combination of the family in the 1891 census,nor Sarah Annie Waghorn(e) with a mum called J in the 1881 either.

This family is a mystery ;D

Maybe b should get that 1885 marriage cert to see what it tells us...her ;)

Ref 2a page 419 and available for £7 from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 12:48 BST (UK): I think a certificate or two may be the only way to untangle all the info. :D :

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Monday 25 August 08 13:02 BST (UK): I wonder if there are 2 different families who are somehow related. ??? ???

There is a John Leander Johnson born Fulham in Sept Q 1887.
Hammersmith is apparently part of this county.
I would be intersting to see who his parents were??
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 13:03 BST (UK): Aha ;D

John Leander Johnson born Fulham Sept 1887 ref 1a page 192

Place and date ties in with the NAA info that mariac found earlier too.

Carol

Snap Maria ;)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 13:04 BST (UK): Another great find, Carol and Maria! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Monday 25 August 08 13:09 BST (UK): Do you get the feeling we are getting all tied up in information and not getting anywhere ;D ;D
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 13:13 BST (UK): Quote from: mariac on Monday 25 August 08 13:09 BST (UK)

Do you get the feeling we are getting all tied up in information and not getting anywhere ;D ;D

I think Dee is correct we need some certs to prove some of this info is the right family.

I can imagine him being given the name John Leander but choosing to be known as Leander-maybe dad was John and it set him apart by using his middle name.

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Monday 25 August 08 13:18 BST (UK): Yes Dee and Carol I agree. Hopefully Belinda will be able to get some certificates which will lead in the right direction.

Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 25 August 08 13:24 BST (UK): Carol and Maria,
I think the father was Leander too, (possibly Leander John), because there are definitely two Leander Johnsons in Australia. The one in Balmain in 1893 is surely the one that has children with a Sarah Ann in Balmain, as seen in the NSW BDM. That can't be Leander John/John Leander who arrived in 1891.

I'm finished for tonight! :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 25 August 08 23:22 BST (UK): Goodmorning All

Quote
Quote from: newbe on Yesterday at 19:18:05
Looking back I see you say that Rosetta may have been adopted.

Do you have her parents names as I may be able to find a marriage year on the 1848 to 1956 NZSG marriage cd

the only parents i have for rosetta louise are Leander Johnson and Sarah Annie Wagner..

Have you got the marriage certificate for Rosetta? did she marry in Australia or Nz and ~~whereabouts did she die please~~ see they both died in Bowral NSW
kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 25 August 08 23:40 BST (UK): So I see they were married in Bowral in 1934
5293/1934 groom CUPITT FREDERICK A bride JOHNSON ROSETTA L district BOWRAL
on the 1930 Electoral Roll

living at Bowral

Rosetta Louise Johnson "luxembourg" Clarke Stret Bowral, home duties

no other Johnson listed at that address

Do you have a copy of this marriage certificate?

Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 25 August 08 23:46 BST (UK): Let us know how it goes with BDM here in NZ.

I would be interested to see what they say.

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 06:25 BST (UK): you guys have come up with some incredible info, here!

i've applied for a birth certificate with the NZ BDM.. and apparently if she was adopted, that's ok, because they can come up with a pre-adoption cert as well.

I indeed have the marriage certificate for Fred & Rosetta... it lists Rosetta's parents as Leander Johnson (dec) and Sarah Annie Waggon. Though i'm 110% certain that i've seen her Death Cert as well (it's managed to go missing) and her mother was listed as Sarah Annie Wagner.

Rosetta's Death Cert also states that she was Born in Auckland, NZ. Which lends more weight to the theory that she may have been adopted if indeed Leander & Sarah came over from the UK.

I spoke to my nan again today, and she says 'the whole family was involved in shipping in Dora Creek' so I'm thinking this family may just be the right one. However, how everyone ties in together is another issue.

just a few more things to think about
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 06:34 BST (UK): Just wondering if you applied for a printout from BDM NZ as it would contain more info than a certificate.

Did they find it in the years you had in one of your earlier replies

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 06:49 BST (UK): hi there!

yep, applied for a printout. Haven't heard back from them yet though, as i've only applied today.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:03 BST (UK): That's great ;D ;D

Haven't done much searching for your Sarah Annie today but will have a good look over the next day or so.

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:08 BST (UK): thanks newbe!

i must say, i've gotten further in 24hrs here than i have in 2 years on other sites! :)

will keep you all updated :) and look forward to hearing anything else that people may come across :)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:20 BST (UK): Do you know who Sarah Annie Waggon (Wagner) parents were.

I have looked to see if there was anyone with the surname WAGGON but there are none.

Will keep looking for you

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:46 BST (UK): Quote from: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 12:12 BST (UK)
Free BMD has the March 1885 marriage of Leander Johnson to Sarah Annie Waghorn in Richmond Surrey .

You'll find that Sarah Annie Waggon/ Wagner is actually WAGHORN,they married in the UK in 1885 and travelled out to Oz with Sarah's mum Mrs J Waghorn.

Sadly I haven't found them together in any census here yet.

I think it's one of the certs Belinda should get ;)

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:54 BST (UK): I wonder if this is the Sarah annie you are looking for

Death in NSW BDM INDEX

565/1957 JOHNSON SARAH ANNIE RICHARD SARAH SYDNEY

Let me know what you think

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:59 BST (UK): Quote from: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 11:57 BST (UK)
I don't know if you already have this but..... on Find MY past there is a ships listing for a Leander J Johnson leaving the UK bound for Oz.

On the 26th August 1891 he left London bound for Sydney on board the PORT ALBERT ,it says he was age 8,although looking at the image it may be 3.

Travelling with him were...

Mrs J Waghorne age 58
Mrs A Johnson age 33
Leander J Johnson age 3
Edward A Johnson age 1

Could Mrs Waghorne have been grannie?

Best wishes

Carol

Sarah (Annie) Johnson was 33 when she left the UK in 1891- I doubt she would have still been alive to have died in 1957 :o

Or perhaps all that sunshine out there agreed with her ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 09:16 BST (UK): Quote from: newbe on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:54 BST (UK)
I wonder if this is the Sarah annie you are looking for

Death in NSW BDM INDEX

565/1957 JOHNSON SARAH ANNIE RICHARD SARAH SYDNEY

Let me know what you think

Newbe

i feel like such a fool now.. i can't believe i haven't seen/ordered that certificate yet!

my line of thinking was... get rosetta's birth cert, which will have leander & sarah on it, then hopefully track their wedding cert, which will have their parents names one it... etc, etc...
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 09:24 BST (UK): Quote from: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 09:16 BST (UK)
Quote from: newbe on Tuesday 26 August 08 07:54 BST (UK)
I wonder if this is the Sarah annie you are looking for

Death in NSW BDM INDEX

565/1957 JOHNSON SARAH ANNIE RICHARD SARAH SYDNEY

Let me know what you think

Newbe

i feel like such a fool now.. i can't believe i haven't seen/ordered that certificate yet!

my line of thinking was... get rosetta's birth cert, which will have leander & sarah on it, then hopefully track their wedding cert, which will have their parents names one it... etc, etc...

It might be easier to get a transcription of it as it is cheaper than getting the certificate.

I use http://home.iprimus.com.au/lturtle/index.htm

They charge A$15.00 compared with A$26.00 if ordered from the website and it can be emailed to you for no extra cost

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 26 August 08 10:40 BST (UK): Can I just add in here a thought for you

If you were to purchase one of the birth certificates of the children born in Australia that may give you further information

NSW Birth certificates contain Name, date, place, father's name and occupation age and birthplace. Mothers name age birthplace Marriage previous children.

Plus the information is supplied by one of the parents.

Your line of thinking on Rosetta's birth is a good one and liable as not to have the required information, The death in 1957 for Sarah is a long shot given you don't know anything about her as yet.

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:07 BST (UK): Good thought Jenn

That might make things easier :)

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:13 BST (UK): I find Births and Marriages much more reliable for information as the Death is dependant on who gives the information. Sometimes it is accurate other times not no accurate.
regards
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:14 BST (UK): Bit of luck on Checking on family trees on Ancestery

there is a Johnson tree with the same family

has details
Sarah Annie Waghorne Born: abt 1857
Lowestoft, Suffolk, England Died: 1952
Hurstville, New South Wales, Australia

Leander Johnson
Born 1864 London England died 1918 in Tonga !!

John leander johnson born 5/6/1887 London UK died 24th Feb 1979 Newcastle Australia

So Carol's information from the passenger lists was spot on.

There was no details for Leander's siblings.

Unfortunately there was no direct email for the tree owner so I have had to send a message can only wait for a reply

Kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:21 BST (UK): Australian Electoral Rolls
1930
JOHNSON Sarah Annie 35 Tindale Road, Artarmon Home Duties

1936
JOHNSON Sarah Annie 18 Almore Street, Mosman Home duties

No other JOHNSONs at either address.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:26 BST (UK): wow!

that's some pretty interesting details there!

just trying to wrap my head around it all. It's all very interesting given my grandmother was so adamant about other info that is in complete contrast with all of this! :P heehee.

obviously one cannot stand in the way of facts as they are. Though Tonga could fit in with my nan's theory that Rosetta was of maori descent and adopted. I know Tongan's arent's maori's but they are and islander and could have been confused for one or the other back in the day i guess!

b.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:28 BST (UK): From BDM NSW

29715/1952 JOHNSON SARAH WILLIAM SARAH HURSTVILLE

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:34 BST (UK): Well done Jenn

Now we know that Sarah was born in Lowestoft I might be able to find her on the 1891 census in the UK,just before she and the kids and mum left for Oz.

Watch this space ;)

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:45 BST (UK): I have them in the 1861 census Carol
Will print it out now
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:50 BST (UK): More food for thought

1861 Census Mutford Lowestoft Suffolk
William Waghorn 32 Southend Kent head
Sarah do (nee Brynning) 34 Maslow Buckingham wife
Sarah A Waghorn 4 Lowestoft daug
William Brynning 60 Uxbridge Middlesex father in law
Alfred Brynning 17 d0 brother in law
Hannah Butcher 27 Gisleham Visitor
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:56 BST (UK): Have just taken another look at the ships list and I suppose that it could say Mrs S Waghorn at a push ;D

Am sending Belinda a PM about it in a sec.

Well done with the 1861...I suppose we should go for the full set now then Maria ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:57 BST (UK): Just on the 1881 now
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:01 BST (UK): 1881 Censu Stanstead Rd Lewisham RG11 /738 110/36

Sarah Waghorn 56 Buchinghamshire Dressmaker widow
Sarah do 26 Lowestoft Dressmaker daughter
Walter do 31 Rotherfield Sussex son Painter
Mary Ann King 21 Assistant Dressmaker

Sarah's mum is also a Dressmaker in 1861
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:07 BST (UK): The only birth I can find for a Sarah in Suffolk in the period

Births Sep quarter 1856
Waghorn Sarah Anne Mutford 4a/616

Ties in with the age on the 1861 census as I think the census was taken in June.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:11 BST (UK): That would be her cando. Good show ;D

I cant seem to find her on the 1891 Census. Which we really need to follow through to oz. Have you had any luck Carol? ???
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:14 BST (UK): No ,the only one I thought might fit was a widowed housekeeper,but her age has been obliterated by the enumerator,with a Paris Watson in Suffolk.

But I'm not convinced 8)

Trying for mum next,

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:19 BST (UK): i'm gonna say it again, you folks are amazing!
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:21 BST (UK): Just in case:

England censuses were taken as follows

1841 6/7 June (midnight between the 2 dates)
1851 30/31 March
1861 7/8 April
1871 2/3 April
1881 3/4 April
1891 5/6 April
1901 31/1 March/April
1911 2/3 April

Hope this helps with ages etc

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:30 BST (UK): Going by those dates newbe they should be still in England if they didnt leave until August of 1891.
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:35 BST (UK): This is possibly Sarah's mother's death....father was on the 1861 census as Wm BRYNNING

4610 1896
WAGHORN Sarah
Father William    Mother Sarah
District Wickham
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:39 BST (UK): I guess as they say "just have to keep searching" ::)

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 14:36 BST (UK): Had a quick look at the family tree on ancestry. Info detailed there includes the death of Sarah WAGHORN nee BRYNNING in 1885 and the emigration of Leander to Sydney [the voyage's origin was Sweden] in Mar 1892 and Sarah Ann in June 1892 also from Sweden. Also details Sarah in Sands Directory for 1912 living in Balmain. Noted also that Leander died at sea on one record and the another mentions Fiji.

I checked the Unassisted Passenger records and it shows Leander only as L and Sarah Anne as S A, but their ages appear to be correct. However no other proof that these records are correct.

I would be purchasing the marriage cert of Leander and Sarah in 1885 and Sarah's death cert. I can't find a birth reg for Leander c1864 in England.

Cando
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 26 August 08 21:19 BST (UK): Hello there All

I had noted more information from the "Johnson Tree" on Ancestry but was loathe to put it up as I was not sure about it all. As Cando says not enough "proof"

Plus the tree has Sarah Waghorn dying in England before Sarah Johnson the daughter came to Australia!! which did confuse me somewhat. I thought perhaps the gentleman still may have had further researching to do as there was no death date given. .

It is possible that Mrs J Waghorn aged 58 might be aunt? not her mother

A little confusing at this stage.

Also the shipping records as Cando points out are not confirmed

"Name: S A Johnson Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Age: 34 Port of Departure: Clendenenville Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales Voyage Arrival Date: 6 Jun 1892 Vessel Name: Elingamite Origin Location: Sweden

Name: L Johnson Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Age: 28 Port of Departure: Kaupo Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales Voyage Arrival Date: 14 Mar 1892 Vessel Name: W F Witzemann Origin Location: Sweden "

No mention of any records for John Leander Johnson's arrival.

I am inclinded to think Carol's finding of the family is the correct one.

Plus no disrespect but we all know that you cannot take other folks "trees" as gospel.

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 26 August 08 21:58 BST (UK): Carol 8353

Is it possible that the record for Mrs. J. Waghorne could be Mrs S. Waghorne?

There is a death in NSW

4610/1896 WAGHORN SARAH father WILLIAM mother SARAH district
WICKHAM

Now Leander and Sarah An had two children 1895c reg district Wickham.

Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 26 August 08 22:37 BST (UK): The record for their arrival also shows up on ProVic
(where it does show Mrs. S. Waghorne
Family Name First Name Age Month Year Ship Port Fiche Page
WAGHORNE S MRS 58 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001
JOHNSON A MRS 33 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001
JOHNSON EDWARD A 1 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001
JOHNSON LEANDER J 3 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001

Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 22:55 BST (UK): Quote from: carol8353 on Tuesday 26 August 08 11:56 BST (UK)
Have just taken another look at the ships list and I suppose that it could say Mrs S Waghorn at a push ;D

Am sending Belinda a PM about it in a sec.

Carol

Yes Jenn which is exactly what I said to Belinda earlier today(or yesterday if you live in Oz ;D)

I sent her a copy of the ships list so she could decide for herself.
Now we're getting somewhere,if the list your end definitely says Mrs S Waghorn(e)

I just wish we could find some of the family on the 1891 census here.
Or the ships list of when Leander the dad left the UK...must have been before his wife and kids in 1891,but sadly our lists only start in 1890 here :(

Maybe one of you clever lot will find more for B tonight(today ;))

Carol
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Wednesday 27 August 08 01:35 BST (UK): Quote from: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 12:35 BST (UK)
This is possibly Sarah's mother's death....father was on the 1861 census as Wm BRYNNING

4610 1896
WAGHORN Sarah
Father William    Mother Sarah
District Wickham

There is also the following which if we didn't have the shipping record on PROV [and possible death in NSW] could be believed ie born 1827 which tallies with age on 1861 census.

Deaths Sep 1885
Waghorn    Sarah    58    St. Saviour    1d   32

I am far from convinced that the info on the family tree is accurate - Has the tree been assembled from data as we have found without supporting evidence eg certificates. I have also found a L Johnson on the ship mentioned but aged 7 on PROV. I only mentioned the shipping record cited - I also think it is Sarah with chn and mother [age is incorrect - should be 65] What happened to Edward A?

The shipping records on Ancestry also include crew. My grandfather was a marine engineer and in the 10 years prior to his marriage in 1910, he was involved with coastal shipping. I have found all his 'trips' into Sydney from 1900 to 1909...age differs a couple of years at times, but the years worked and especially the names of the ships, are remembered by my 97 year old father....who has an excellent memory. Soon as I started mentioning the ships' names, he added more.

Wonder if it would be worthwhile someone having a look at the shipping record at PROV.... Was the original manifest on findmypast clear?

Final comment ;D It is all too easy to make data fit one's tree!! Certs are needed.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 27 August 08 02:07 BST (UK): Have to agreee with you Cando but I do feel that the 1891 arrival could be it far too much coincidence with names etc.

Could young Edward A died at sea ? A look at the records at Provic would be ideal. It is also possible if the family went to NZ perhaps he stayed there?

Also how long might the voyage still have been back then, would it have been 6 months? Would that account for them not being on the 1891 census?

Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Wednesday 27 August 08 06:20 BST (UK): Quote from: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 14:36 BST (UK)
Had a quick look at the family tree on ancestry. Info detailed there includes the death of Sarah WAGHORN nee BRYNNING in 1885 and the emigration of Leander to Sydney [the voyage's origin was Sweden] in Mar 1892 and Sarah Ann in June 1892 also from Sweden. Also details Sarah in Sands Directory for 1912 living in Balmain. Noted also that Leander died at sea on one record and the another mentions Fiji.

I checked the Unassisted Passenger records and it shows Leander only as L and Sarah Anne as S A, but their ages appear to be correct. However no other proof that these records are correct.

I would be purchasing the marriage cert of Leander and Sarah in 1885 and Sarah's death cert. I can't find a birth reg for Leander c1864 in England.

Cando

this above confirms for me that we're looking at the right people. my grandmother was adamant come hell or high water that Leander was finnish/swedish...

the next thing i suppose is to find a marriage record for leander and sarah annie... and possibly birth certificates??
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 27 August 08 06:33 BST (UK): Quote
the next thing i suppose is to find a marriage record for leander and sarah annie... and possibly birth certificates??

Carol8353 has posted the marriage details in rely no43

Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Wednesday 27 August 08 06:50 BST (UK): she did indeed.

i was going to say something stupid like.. if they came to aus through sweden, wouldn't they have been married in sweded, but i'd say the odds of two people with exactly the same names getting married are about 1 in a million.

so i'll order a copy of the marriage certificate as well and see where that can't get me :)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Wednesday 27 August 08 07:04 BST (UK): Quote from: bmissen on Wednesday 27 August 08 06:20 BST (UK)
Quote from: cando on Tuesday 26 August 08 14:36 BST (UK)
Had a quick look at the family tree on ancestry. Info detailed there includes the death of Sarah WAGHORN nee BRYNNING in 1885 and the emigration of Leander to Sydney [the voyage's origin was Sweden] in Mar 1892 and Sarah Ann in June 1892 also from Sweden. Also details Sarah in Sands Directory for 1912 living in Balmain. Noted also that Leander died at sea on one record and the another mentions Fiji.

I checked the Unassisted Passenger records and it shows Leander only as L and Sarah Anne as S A, but their ages appear to be correct. However no other proof that these records are correct.

I would be purchasing the marriage cert of Leander and Sarah in 1885 and Sarah's death cert. I can't find a birth reg for Leander c1864 in England.

Cando

this above confirms for me that we're looking at the right people. my grandmother was adamant come hell or high water that Leander was finnish/swedish...

the next thing i suppose is to find a marriage record for leander and sarah annie... and possibly birth certificates??

Belinda I doubt very much that these are the passenger records of your family. If you read my previous post you will see that crew are named as unassisted immigrants...and it only gives initials. Don't you think the records found by Carol and confirmed by Jenn are more likely to be your family with Sarah's mother accompanying them. There are many ships' passenger' lists that have not been transcribed and many trips may have originated in Sweden but may have been all over the world before arriving in Australia eg the Passenger record of L JOHNSON on the W H Fitzeman shows the Port of Departure as Kaupo which in Hawaii.

Family stories are vital to helping us with research but over the years events do become distorted eg you thought that Leander and Sarah were married in NZ....perhaps they lived there for a while...you would have to find them on electoral records.

If you ancestor was born in Finland or Sweden it may be quite difficult to find a record...and his name may have been Anglicised ie it could have been Johansen, Jensen or a couple of other variations. The marriage certificate is the only way to find out if it is your couple. It is very easy to grasp at straws when researching our families....I think we have all been guilty of doing it at times ;D I have attempted to find the birth details of my OH's great grandfather b. 1857 in Norway and so far it has been a very frustrating ordeal!

The only way you can move forward or backwards, is to purchase some certificates. I will be interested to see what is on the certs and then we may be able to help you further.

Cheers
Cando...
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Wednesday 27 August 08 07:17 BST (UK): I will wait until Belinda has the birth cert of Rosetta Johnson before I go and look at the electoral rolls here in NZ.

Hopefully the birth cert will say what part of Auckland she was born in.

That would give me an idea as to where to start looking

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: andycand on Wednesday 27 August 08 07:46 BST (UK): Hi

Quote
The record for their arrival also shows up on ProVic
(where it does show Mrs. S. Waghorne
Family Name First Name Age Month Year Ship Port Fiche Page
WAGHORNE S MRS 58 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001
JOHNSON A MRS 33 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001
JOHNSON EDWARD A 1 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001
JOHNSON LEANDER J 3 OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B 550 001

The Geelong Historical Records Centre in Lt Malop St, Geelong has the Victorian passenger list films both inward & outward incuding the outward up to, I think, 1923 that haven't yet been indexed by the PROV.

Andy
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Wednesday 27 August 08 09:40 BST (UK): i'd be interested to see if these people above ever travelled to NZ at some stage... whilst not concrete evidence, may add more weight to the theory that these are the right people.

hmmm so much food for thought!
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: pete jo on Sunday 31 August 08 01:42 BST (UK): Leander Johnson and Sarah Annie Waghorn where married in Richman near London in the UK at Wesley church on the 3 of January 1885
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Sunday 31 August 08 01:46 BST (UK): Welcome to Rootschat Pete Jo

I am sure Belinda will be happy to have that piece of the puzzle solved

Newbe :)
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: cando on Sunday 31 August 08 02:04 BST (UK): Quote from: carol8353 on Monday 25 August 08 12:12 BST (UK)
Going back a bit further in England,Free BMD has the March 1885 marriage of Leander Johnson to Sarah Annie Waghorn in Richmond Surrey .

I wonder if he travelled out to Oz earlier and Sarah(Annie) went with her mum and the kids later.

Carol

Welcome to rootschat :)

Thank you pete jo for the additional detail on the marriage found by Carol......is there any other info on the record you have found that would be helpful to Belinda?

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Sunday 31 August 08 04:40 BST (UK): i'm looking forward to what the birth certificate brings up. apparently the Dept of BDM in NZ doesn't take too long to do them. If Rosetta was adopted, it'd then be interesting to see when she came out to Aus and with whom.

I'd still be very interested to hear if anyone else has found anything though :)

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: mariac on Sunday 31 August 08 05:16 BST (UK): Hi Belinda,

I think we are all waiting patiently to see what Rosetta's birth certificate reveals. :)
Regards
Mariac
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 31 August 08 05:27 BST (UK): Quote from: pete jo on Sunday 31 August 08 01:42 BST (UK)
Leander Johnson and Sarah Annie Waghorn where married in Richman near London in the UK at Wesley church on the 3 of January 1885

Hello there and awelcome to Rootschat

are you able to help with the death details etc in Figi

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: pete jo on Friday 05 September 08 06:15 BST (UK): Leander Johnson die off the coast of Tonga in-1918 His father was also a sea captain named John Johnson is -there any one who can help me with in formation with Sarah Waghon I thought that she die in 1885 did she come to Australia with -her daughter can any help with more information.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 06 October 08 11:29 BST (UK): Just wondering if you ever got that birth cert from BDM in NZ

Newbe
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: ChristineL on Friday 17 April 09 07:21 BST (UK): Leander Johnson died in Tonga in 1918. He came from Finland.
His estate papers are in the British Consul in Tonga's papers in the Western Pacific Archive in Auckland University Library, NZ.
I have seen them and took a few notes. They mention his 5 sons- no daughters.
Charles Henry Johnson, Leander John Johnson, Edward Alexander Johnson, Emil James Johnson and an adopted son George Johnson.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Saturday 02 October 10 04:19 BST (UK): Hooley Dooley,

It's been forever since I posted in here. Unfortunately I've not been able to find anymore about Leander, other than he was granted citizenship in NZ in 1906 (i have a small newspaper article).

Christine L, very very interesting info you have there!! All children there that I know about except for Rosetta! I wonder what that could mean? They're listed as Rosetta's parents on her death cert!.

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: bmissen on Saturday 02 October 10 04:21 BST (UK): ChristineL,

Are you able to get a photo copy of the documents in the NZ Uni archives at all??

Belinda.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: ChristineL on Thursday 21 October 10 07:01 BST (UK): Yes I have now got them on a CD. Please contact me with an email address I can send them to.
Christine
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: oldspook on Wednesday 07 December 11 22:18 GMT (UK): Just chanced on this thread and hope all have sorted out the Johnson saga now. My ancestor was William Bryning (1802-1877) from Middlesex, whose eldest daughter was Sarah Louise Bryning (1824-1896). She was born in Buckinghamshire, married William Waghorn in 1854 - daughter Sarah Anne (Annie) was born in 1856. This then ties in with the Johnson story - Sarah Annie married Leander Johnson in Richmond, Surrey in 1885. Mother Sarah Louise outlived William Waghorn - he died in 1888 - so she emigrated to Australia in 1891 with daughter Sarah Annie, husband Leander and infant. They arrived in Sydney on 24 Oct 1891 on the ship Port Albert, from London via Melbourne.
Sarah Louise Waghorn died in 1896 in Newcastle NSW.
I have all the relevant census entries for the two Sarahs - except for 1891. Where were they then? Surely they will not have sailed from London by the date of the census?
Are there any grave inscriptions etc for Sarah Louise? My Bryning cousins still living here in the UK would be very interested in the addition and resolution of this Australian line.

Martyn
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: gina 67 on Wednesday 14 November 12 06:06 GMT (UK): Hello.. :) I am one of Rosetta's granddaughters! I am trying to find out all I can about her.Family legend says Leander was her father but Sarah not her mother.She was supposedly born in NZ but the records building burnt down.........so no birth cert available.Would genuinely appreciate any information on her you may have.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: kg454 on Friday 11 September 15 16:58 BST (UK): Hello everyone,

I know it's an old thread but I've just started researching and there are so many coincidences in this thread with what I've found I had to ask.

I think I'm looking for Edward Alexander as mentioned in replies 36,92,94,95,111 but under the different surname Wesala. I found a post on ancestry http://trees.ancestry.com.au/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=48501181&pid=20339245806 (http://trees.ancestry.com.au/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=48501181&pid=20339245806) that may indicate that they're the same person.

In reply 23, leander is listed as in Balmain in 1912, and my EA is listed on his mariage certificate as balmain in 1913. That certificate lists his mother as Sarah Waghorn but his father as Alexander John Wesala. EA's occupation is listed as seaman and father's occupation is master mariner.

On EA's death certificate, it lists his father as Leander Wesala, ship's captain and mother as Sarah Waghorn. EA's occupation is listed as ships rigger on this one.

EA's birth place is listed as southampton on both certificates which matches http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?scan=1&r=83964076:9478&d=bmd_1441408475 (http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?scan=1&r=83964076:9478&d=bmd_1441408475). It looks like that W is for Wesala which would increase the likelyhood of finish ancestory.

EA's letters refers to his own surname as Wesala.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: majm on Saturday 12 September 15 02:29 BST (UK): Hi there, and Welcome

According to the NSW State Records Office INDEX for Child Care and Protection there’s two files for Rosetta Louisa WESALA

The index has her as aged 14 years 7 months on 29 Sept 1922, and it also has her mother as dead, and her adopted father as Edward WESALA.

I would expect there to be further info available in the files themselves.

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-education-and-child-welfare-records/index-to-child-care-and-protection/index-to-child-care-and-protection

Cheers, JM
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: kg454 on Saturday 12 September 15 16:28 BST (UK): So when Elsie died (1921?), Rosetta (still not of age) was adopted by her uncle Edward Alexander who promptly apprenticed her off to Mrs Brierley in 1922.
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: Paulpadley on Tuesday 05 March 19 12:48 GMT (UK): Hi, I am also looking for a copy of Leander Johnson estate papers. Can you contact me if you receive this. Thanks
Title: Re: Hello from Geelong, Australia
Post by: majm on Tuesday 05 March 19 22:55 GMT (UK): Quote from: Paulpadley on Tuesday 05 March 19 12:48 GMT (UK)
Hi, I am also looking for a copy of Leander Johnson estate papers. Can you contact me if you receive this. Thanks

and

Quote from: ChristineL on Friday 17 April 09 07:21 BST (UK)
Leander Johnson died in Tonga in 1918. He came from Finland.
His estate papers are in the British Consul in Tonga's papers in the Western Pacific Archive in Auckland University Library, NZ.
I have seen them and took a few notes. They mention his 5 sons- no daughters.
Charles Henry Johnson, Leander John Johnson, Edward Alexander Johnson, Emil James Johnson and an adopted son George Johnson.

Hi there,

Welcome to RootsChat,

I can see that the University of Auckland's Library has a 'Contact Us' option at the following live link
https://www.library.auckland.ac.nz/contact-us/ and within that there is an email address for their Cultural Collections, including archives .....

I hope that helps,

JM

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