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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 09:50 BST (UK)

Title: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 09:50 BST (UK)
Hello All
I wonder if someone can help, i am looking for the marriage of Aleaxander Baird and Agnes Wilson around 1901-1906 possibly in Lanarkshire, they had a son Alexander born 18th May 1906 in a farm in Lanark he is possibly not registered, sorry this all i have.

Thanks
Allan Robson
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 02 September 08 10:34 BST (UK)
You need to check for the marriage on Scotland's People:
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 10:38 BST (UK)
Thanks for your help.

Regards
Allan
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 10:50 BST (UK)
Hi Allan

I've been looking around but so far I've not found anything promising. Do you have any more details at all of Alexander's birthplace, apart from a farm in Lanark?

Also, do you have a death/marriage for him in Scotland?


Regards

Gadget

Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 11:21 BST (UK)
Thanks the farm where alexander was in 1906 was carluke farm nr Lanark i am trying to find more about his parents, sorry this all i have

Regards
Allan
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Piglet01 on Tuesday 02 September 08 11:41 BST (UK)
A search at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk brings up no marriage for the couple - scotlandwide between 1855 and 1932.


There are 6 Alexander Bairds born in Sciotland in 1906 - the only one born in Lanark is


1906 BAIRD ALEXANDER M GOVAN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 646/02 0895

Regards, Steve :O)
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 11:54 BST (UK)
Thanks Steve
i was told that Alexander Baird born 18th may 1906 at Carluke farm Nr Lanarkshire was not registered because the family lived to far away from the Registration place.

Regards
Allan
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 02 September 08 11:57 BST (UK)
If the parents weren't actually married he could have been registered under his mother's maiden name Wilson.
Think you first might need to find 'Carluke farm.' There is a place called Carluke in Lanarkshire.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:00 BST (UK)
I've checked all these variations out earlier - including Nancy. I'll do some more checking around the Carluke area. On the 1901, there are a few Agnes Wilsons as farm servants. Any of these could be her or might not.

Allan, how did you come by this information, please? Any info on a amarriage/death or his later life might help.


Gadget
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:04 BST (UK)
A friend of mine has started doing her family tree and the info was passed down, but is baffled she cant the marriage of Alexander baird and agnes wilson, to me it looks like the son Alexander maybe illegitimate and there was no marriage?
 Thanks for your help.
Allan
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:08 BST (UK)
Here's a possible for Agnes but only a possible - I think it is quite possible that he was illegitimate but if his birth wasn't registered , a marriage cert or death cert would give more info.


1901

Butter Hole, Carluke
Reg Dist 629 ED 7 Household no. 2

James Struthers, 59, farmer
Mary, 60
Andrew, 25
James, 19
Agnes Wilson, servant,15,  Servant general, b.Stirlingshire




Gadget
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:11 BST (UK)
Thanks it looks likely

Allan
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:16 BST (UK)
Hi Allan

No Alexander Bairds in  Carluke in 1901  :-\


There's only one possible death in Scotland for an Alexander Baird, mother's name Wilson - 1991, aged 84, in Stirling. If your friend wants to explore that cert and get details of the parents, she could order it from the Scotlands people site, web address given above message#1.

This might not be him but it's the only one where the details match.


Regards


Gadget

Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:25 BST (UK)
Below is the actual info i got, maybe its clearer to you


He was Alexander Baird born 18th May 1906, on a farm in Carluke, Lanarkshire....his parents were Alexander Baird and Agnes Wilson, the farm was too far out for them to go register him, it seems..... his father died when he was young and his mother re-married and was now known as Agnes Tait, (which is on my grandfathers marriage cert) he was, it seems, raised by his step brothers called David and James Tait...ages unknown.... hope this helps
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:30 BST (UK)
I'll check up on a Wilson/Tait marriage.

I've found a possible Alex Baird, Harestanes, Carluke on the 1901 index but it is so bad, I'll have to track down the original image.


Gadget
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:32 BST (UK)
There's a marriage for an Agnes Gledhill Wilson and an Angus Mcallum Tait, 1920, St Giles, Edinburgh.

It's the only Agnes Wilson/Tait marriage post 1906.

Not too sure about it - she's only 26 which would make her 10 when Alexander was born - maybe she was older than Angus (27)  and disguised the fact  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:35 BST (UK)
Thanks Gadget, your very Kind.

Allan
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 12:48 BST (UK)
This is the most likely Alexander Baird in carluke on the 1901:


Harestanes, Carluke
Reg D 629 ED 6 Page 11/12

Jno Baird, 42, ?burner
Margt, 44, b. Ireland
And(?rew), 15, fireman
Enid, 13, at home,
Alex, 12, scholar,

all except Margaret b. Lks , Cadder


That's about all that I can find. It might be them. It might not.  I think the marriage cert of Alexander jnr, should give a father's occupation which might help.


Gadget
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Tuesday 02 September 08 13:04 BST (UK)
Many thanks for your help, i think what you have given is probably right Alexander would have 17 in 1906 and Agnes 20 so it is possible, lol
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: sancti on Tuesday 02 September 08 16:54 BST (UK)
Who did the 1906 Alexander marry?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 16:56 BST (UK)
I've been trying to find out, sancti,  but Allan seems to have limited information.

I've searched up to 1932 but not enough info to go on and he might well have married later.


Gadget
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Friday 03 October 14 14:01 BST (UK)
Alexander Baird born in 1906 was my Great Grandad,he married Catherine Copeland on the 27th of December 1929 in Shettleston.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Allan Robson on Friday 14 November 14 13:40 GMT (UK)
Sorry this not my line.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 24 November 14 21:04 GMT (UK)
OK,i am currently doing a family tree and everything you said from the date of birth,Agnes Baird,Tait etc pointed to it being my great grandad.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 25 November 14 11:37 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found any of these folk in the 1911 census yet?

I am slightly sceptical about the story that the farm was too far from the registration office. According to Fullarton's Gazetter, the parish of Carluke is about 8 miles from north to south, and 4 miles from east to west. It actually looks rather less on the map. The village of Carluke is more or less in the middle of the parish, and there's nowhere in the parish more than about three miles from the Registrar's office, which is not at all far, even in the early 1900s.

Parents had three weeks to register a birth, and there were fines for failure to do so. Is it credible that no-one from the farm went into the village for three whole weeks?

So if the birth was not registered, I think distance from the Registrar's office sounds more like an excuse than a good reason.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 07 May 18 18:08 BST (UK)
Is there anymore info on Alexander Baird born on 1906?I still cant find a birth certificate for him or a marriage certificate between his Mum, Agnes Wilson and Mr Tait
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 07 May 18 19:14 BST (UK)
Stacey, what showed on Alexander's marriage and death certs?

For example, from the marriage in 1929, what occupation was showing for Alexander Snr? How was mother Agnes' details written up on the cert. Addresses given? Witnesses' names?

Did the marriage details match what you have on Alexander's death reg (assuming he died in Scotland)?  Edit, as Gadget mentioned earlier in the thread, he did die in Stirling didn't he? Surnames Baird, Wilson and Tait connected with the entry.

What is the source of his date of birth?

Monica
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 07 May 18 19:46 BST (UK)
Given Alexander's birth year, he likely served in WW2? If so, maybe ordering his service papers would give you more relevant personal info than you will find elsewhere.

I ordered my father's and there was a huge amount of personal info on the forms for him which was great to have.

Monica
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 07 May 18 21:49 BST (UK)
I have Alexander Juniors marriage certificate to my great gran on the 27th of January 1929 in Shettleston. On the marriage certificate his Dad, Alexander Senior was listed as an electrical engineer who had deceased and his Mum was remarried to a Mr Tait. I have spoken to family who remember that at the time of his death, they couldn't find a birth certificate for him.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: sancti on Monday 07 May 18 22:07 BST (UK)
What is the exact wording in the column for mother's name?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 07 May 18 22:10 BST (UK)
Agnes Baird now Tait M. S Wilson
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: DonM on Wednesday 09 May 18 10:52 BST (UK)
There is an Alexander Baird born in 1899 in Campsie. He was illegitimate and he and his mother Agnes Wilson were living with her parents in Torrence at East Balgrochan during the 1901 Census.  His birth states his father was John a ploughman from Kirkintilloch signed by his own hand.  Maybe Alexander never new his father; maybe his mother told him his name was Alexander.  Then again this could be simply a coincidence and not the one you seek.

If you get Agnes death please let us know who here parents were.

Don
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 09 May 18 15:06 BST (UK)
That is a good possibility, Don.

I think Alexander and mother Agnes that you found are still showing at home in Campsie with her father George in the 1911 census. Mother I think was an Ann Small who died c. 1904. This is just from general searches in the index on SP. Alexander showing as Wilson on this 1911 census entry I believe.

I can only find one Agnes Wilson/Tait marriage and likely corresponding death for this Agnes in the Glasgow area in the 1940s. Her parents on her death showing as James and Agnes (maiden name for her mother not known by John, son).

This Agnes married a William James Tait in 1900 and they show on the census I think for 1901 in the Lanarkshire area. From this census, this Agnes born in Kilsyth area of Stirlingshire.

I cannot see another marriage/death so far for an Agnes Wilson, married to a Tait  :-\

Curious to know the detail re parents from Alexander's death in Stirling in later years if you have them, Stacey.

Monica
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Wednesday 09 May 18 15:47 BST (UK)
I don't have a copy of his death certificate, i think i only took info from the entry while researching in Edinburgh,which list them both as deceased. As I said previously regarding the wedding, Alexander Baird snr is recorded as deceased at the point of Alexander Juniors wedding. My Gran was named after Alexander Juniors Mum, she was Agnes Wilson Baird.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: DonM on Wednesday 09 May 18 17:54 BST (UK)
I have another option but I am away from my PC so it will have to wait until I return.  It relates to Jr.'s residence at the time he was married which was Newmains Farm in EKB.  Newmains was a tenancy of Gavin and John Wilson up until late 1930's.  But its Robert's potential father, Alexander Baird was b 1970/71 at Woodside, EKB, who came to mind. 

He was the son of William/Marg Struthers. The family moved to Dykehead in Hamilton then a couple of other farms eventually staying put in Glassford.  I don't think he ever married and died in WWI but I can't say for sure until I return. 

Don
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Wednesday 09 May 18 19:25 BST (UK)
If you could have a look when you get time that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: DonM on Saturday 12 May 18 21:46 BST (UK)
I took a look on the details of Alexander b 1871 and it is not him.  I also looked at Agnes Wilson in Campsie, she died in 1918, single not far from home and it seems her son Alexander Wilson Baird died there 1988 age 88. 

I called a cousin who lives outside of Jackton she has more on the post 1900 Wilson and Baird families than I.  She confirms there was no Agnes or Alexander in the EKB during this time frame who haven't been accounted for with the exception of Alexander born of Douglas Maggie (Margaret) McLaren.  They ran a hotel for a few short years but moved on to Hamilton and became a Dairyman.  Sorry I don't have any good news.
 
Don


 
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: sancti on Saturday 12 May 18 22:46 BST (UK)
What was Alexander's address on the marriage record?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Saturday 12 May 18 23:00 BST (UK)
The address for Alexander at the time of his wedding eas Newmains Farm in East Kilbride.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Saturday 12 May 18 23:01 BST (UK)
Thanks for having a look for me Don, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: sancti on Sunday 13 May 18 07:58 BST (UK)
The address for Alexander at the time of his wedding eas Newmains Farm in East Kilbride.

I can't see that address on the Valuation Rolls but 1925 has an Alexander Baird as this record

BAIRD
ALEXANDER
Inhabitant Occupier
HOUSE NETHERMAINS HIGH BLANTYRE
EAST KILBRIDE
1925
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Sunday 13 May 18 10:11 BST (UK)
That could be him.Don do you know about that Alexander Baird?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: sancti on Sunday 13 May 18 11:52 BST (UK)
What addresses were their children born at?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Sunday 13 May 18 15:37 BST (UK)
Alexander's children were  Catherine Baird born 22/09/30 died 25/12/1931,i don't have her birth certificate but at time of her death, they lived at 191 Muiryfauld? Drive in Glasgow. Next was Andrew Copeland Baird-18/03/1932, address was still the same. Agnes Wilson Baird was born 09/02/1934,address was 56 East Wellington Street, Glasgow. Frances Cunningham Copeland Baird born 07/06/1936, died 26/01/1937 in 257 Appin Road Glasgow. Elizabeth Copeland Baird was born 30/01/1938 in 257 Appin Road. William Baird was born 21/07/1939 in Mingat, Western Ardriamurchan, Argyll. Margaret Copeland Baird was born 30/01/1941 in Burnhouse, Kirknewton. Mary Copeland Baird born 08/03/1943 in Ormsary, South Knapdale, Argyll. Alexander Baird was born 29/041944, at the same address as Mary. Marion Jardine Clark Baird was born 01/07/1946(dont have birth certificate) died 27/01/1948-home address was Meadowbank, Briery Hill, Lockerbie. Sarah Copeland Baird was born 19/02/1949 at the cottage hospital in Moffat.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: sancti on Sunday 13 May 18 21:09 BST (UK)
BAIRD
ALEXANDER
Tenant
HOUSE 257 APPIN ROAD
GLASGOW
1935


Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: DonM on Sunday 13 May 18 21:24 BST (UK)
Newlands is the address on his marriage not Nethermains.

Newlands was west side of EKB on below Jackton on the Jackton Road heading towards Burnhouse Rd and Auldhouse. 

High Blantyre was an area on the east side of the Parish, Nethermains would have likely been a house by tis time and I see his occupation was that of a gardener.

Newlands was farmed by the Wilson's per my earlier post so at the time he was married he was employed by them.

The 1871 Alex Baird was still at Torheads Farm in Hamilton where he had been since at least 1911.

So, the Alex Baird at Nethermains in 1925 could very well be yours, perhaps he left there for better employment at Newlands.  He also appears in the 1920.

Don
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Sunday 13 May 18 22:22 BST (UK)
Don, sorry to be a pest but do you know if the Wilson's that employed Alexander were relatives or if it is just a coincidence that they are Wilson's like his Mother?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 13 May 18 23:07 BST (UK)
Catherine Baird born 22/09/30 died 25/12/1931, at time of her death, they lived at 191 Muiryfauld? Drive in Glasgow

On the VRs (Valuation Rolls) for 1931 have the following tenants either of whom may be related or perhaps friends & may ring a bell?

HOUSE 191 MUIRYFAULD DRIVE GLASGOW
1930
VR010201471-

FINDLAY WALTER
GILMOUR THOMAS
MACGOWAN JAMES
RILEY CHARLES
SHEARER DOUGLAS
WEIR DAVID

Annie
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 13 May 18 23:17 BST (UK)
VRs - 1930 & 1935 at 56 East Wellington Street, list no Tenants of any of the surnames on your list & too numerous to add.

SP is FREE to join & Indexes are free to browse, you only pay for downloading documents i.e. worth you browsing all the addresses on your list (pre 1935) as something may pop out as a connection?

Annie
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Sunday 13 May 18 23:25 BST (UK)
Hi Annie, none of the names from 191 Muiryfauld drive ring a bell. What is SP?
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 13 May 18 23:37 BST (UK)
Stacey...

SP is www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk site where you will find Scottish records at very reasonable rates by way of purchasing credits (cheap) but the indexes are free to browse which is where I checked the VRs.

The names of the people I listed were the Tenants of 191 Muiryfauld Drive i.e. your relatives may have lodged with either of those people?

Sometimes connected names can turn up as sponsors to baptisms or witnesses to marriages, informants of deaths etc. & may be related somewhere on branches?

Annie
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Sunday 13 May 18 23:40 BST (UK)
Ah I see. I have done research at the General Registry office of Scotland but didn't realise I could check those for free. I will keep digging. Thanks Annie
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 13 May 18 23:48 BST (UK)
Stacey,

I should have been clearer regarding the Indexes.

The VR docs would not include any lodger(s)!

The Indexes for BMDs do not give you full info. which is only available on downloaded certs. which also applies to Census' as transcriptions don't give the full details i.e. can only be accessed on scotlandspeople site.

Annie

Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Sunday 13 May 18 23:52 BST (UK)
Thanks Annie, I haven't been able to locate Alexander Junior on the 1911 census either when I was in Edinburgh the last time, which if his D. O. B is correct, he should have been on.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 14 May 18 00:16 BST (UK)
I think it's likely if he was illegitimate he would be on 1911 with his mothers surname?

Have you located his mother in 1911 or his maternal g/parents?

You would expect him to be with either of the above?

Annie
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: DonM on Monday 14 May 18 01:10 BST (UK)
I don't believe they were related.

There is no Alexander Baird birth in EKB, there is no Alexander from EKB who could have been his father. 

The other point I will make refers to his Alexander as an Electrical Engineer.  I would think this would be perhaps an easier route to identify who his father was.  Perhaps the Mitchell Library can help you with this.  He would have been a member of an association and he would have been a graduate of a technical school offering the program. 

Don

Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 14 May 18 15:57 BST (UK)
Thanks Don, I have sent the Mitchell Library an email about this
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 14 May 18 15:59 BST (UK)
Hi Rosinish, I think he must have had a relatively good relationship with his Mother as my Gran was named after her which would suggest he was with her but I have been unable to locate him or his Mother on a census.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 14 May 18 17:26 BST (UK)
My Gran was named after Alexander Juniors Mum, she was Agnes Wilson Baird.

Do you have the BC for Agnes Wilson Baird & what are the details of her parents & when/where married?

Annie
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: staceytully on Monday 14 May 18 17:33 BST (UK)
Hi Annie, I think my post may have been a bit confusing. My Gran, Agnes Wilson Baird, was the daughter of Alexander Baird born in 1906.She was born on the 9th of February 1934.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 25 May 18 15:06 BST (UK)
I think it's likely if he was illegitimate he would be on 1911 with his mothers surname?
There is no guarantee of that. It is equally likely that he would be known by his father's name even if he was illegitimate.
Title: Re: Alexander Baird & Agnes Wilson marriage
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 25 May 18 22:59 BST (UK)
I think it's likely if he was illegitimate he would be on 1911 with his mothers surname?
There is no guarantee of that. It is equally likely that he would be known by his father's name even if he was illegitimate.

Forfarian,
You are of course correct but from what we know of illegitimate kids (at least born in Scotland), given their fathers' surname, my thought was based on the fact Alexander couldn't be found under his fathers' surname in 1911  ;)

Annie