RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: trish251 on Saturday 06 September 08 06:34 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for a geography lesson and/or links to show some details of my ggg grandparents & family trip from Paisley and onto a boat to Liverpool.
This is from their diary - 1833
We left Paisley, 1st August for Glasgow, with two carts of luggage and one with the women and children, stopt at the east toll and weighed our carts and found them to contain 25 cwt each and went on to the 3 mile house and watered our horses and had dinner with Joseph Clarke. Went to Glasgow and arrived there about one o'clock. Unloaded our carts and put our baggage on board the Vulcan Steamship, bound for Liverpool. Sailed at half the four o'clock.
In coming down the river we stuck in the mud on the south side above the Village of Goven. We thought all was over until --- but our captain ordered a line to be made fast on the other side of the river, and all hands to the windlass soon brought her off. Mrs Brock and Janet Hamilton waved to them from the house. Mr Peacock and a great number of gentleman passed and gave us 3 cheers, we returned the compliment. We were now past Renfrew Ferry and the scenery was beautiful on both sides of the river. Arrived at Greenock and waited about 10 minutes and sailed with a number more passengers.
Would the road to Glasgow be named?
What would be the east toll? Would they have to pay a toll
What would be the 3 mile house - an inn?
Is the Vulcan the name of a steamship or a type of steamship
What is the name of the river where they were stuck in the mud?
Goven & Greenock - separate towns or suburbs of Glasgow?
the Renfrew Ferry? was it a passenger ferry? from where to where?
My apologies for knowing so little.
Trish
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Quick answer from my memory.
Road to Glasgow was and is called Glasgow Road and just past an area called Ralston it changes to Paisley Road West. I lived in Glasgow Road for 3 years.
East Toll I'll need to check.
3 Mile House is familiar but not sure
Vulcan?
The river is probably the White Cart
Govan is an area of Glasgow but back then would have been a village on it's own.
Greenock is North of Glasgow - have a look at Google maps
Renfrew Ferry was primarily a passenger ferry - went across The Clyde from Renfrew to Yoker. It still exists but is no longer in use as a ferry. It is now moored on The Clyde near Jamaica Bridge and is used as a club and concert venue.
Dave
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Trish/Dave
East Toll could refer to present day area called Eastwood Toll near Rouken Glen, Giffnock which is another major route from Glasgow to Paisley.
Sailing from Glasgow to Greenock via Govan I would have thought that they were on the River Clyde.
3 mile house sounds like some kind of staging post/inn
You will be able to view the area on www.old-maps.co.uk
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Some interesting history of the time
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/5209/paisley2.htm
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Yes sanct, you're right about the river. My mind was in Paisley gear. The Cart runs through Paisley Trish.
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Just had a look at the 1864 Paisley map and it shows the weighing machine on the Glasgow road (near present day Hillington) and further along the road it shows Three-mile House (around present day Cardonald)
Later edit
I would say the weighing machine would be on the junction of Paisley Road West and Crookston Road if it were still there today
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I wonder whether 3 Mile House is near what we now know as Halfway, near The Park and Loudens pubs.
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You could be right Dave, by 1924 it looks as if it changed its name to Halfwayhouse and it is oppsite Nazareth House and slightly to the east
edited
Dont know my easts from my wests ;D
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For some reason, I can't open the maps on old-maps.co.uk
I'm on laptop so will try on PC later
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Hi Trish,
My wife's Stephenson family came from Govan.
By the early part of the 19th century, Govan was rapidly losing its rural appearance and assuming the character of a town as other industries [...] established themselves.
but it was officially a village, until 1864 when it became a Burgh, and it was later annexed to Glasgow in 1912
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govan
Bob
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The Vulcan.
Quote from http://www.bruzelius.info/nautica/Shipbuilding/Young(1867)_Ch3.html
"In 1818, Sir John Robison had an iron vessel (which he had designed in 1816) built for the passenger-traffic on the Forth and Clyde Canal, by Mr. Thomas Wilson, at Faskine, on the Monkland Canal, some six miles from Glasgow. She was called the "Vulcan,"
There are a number of hits for it on Google but apart from tech data, not much of interest.
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Greenock is Southwest of Glasgow - not North.
According to the book by Aileen Smart
Three Mile House was later known as Halfway. The Great Road is the current Paisley Road West which was formed as a toll road in 1753. The present Halfway House post office near the corner of Mosspark Boulevard and the Cardonald Post Office near Moulin Road roughly correspond with the three mile and four mile stones. The original road from Glasgow to Paisley took a route a little further to the north. From Halfway it passed in front of Moss heights crossed Berryknowes Road between Invergyle Drive and Wedderlea Drive down past South Hillington farm rejoining the modern road near Barshaw Park
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North west surely ;)
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Exact geography was never my strong point but definitely North.
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Spoken like true southsiders ;)
From Govan/Paisley area it is more North - west(ish)
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Spoken like true southsiders ;)
From Govan/Paisley area it is more North - west(ish)
;D ;D
Just call me a Sassenach
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Spoken like true southsiders ;)
From Govan/Paisley area it is more North - west(ish)
And from the centre of Glasgow it is even more north west...ish
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They would probably have left from the Broomielaw
http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/GettingAround/River/riverclydepontoonhistory.htm
And another photo from 1897
http://www.francisfrith.com/search/scotland/lanarkshire/glasgow/photos/glasgow_39800.htm
http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image.php?inum=TGSE00230
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http://www.theglasgowstory.com/images/TGSB00118_m.jpg
Coloured lithographic cartoon from the second issue of The Glasgow Looking Glass, 25 June 1825. It is the first of a series of six illustrations under the title "Shipping News" illustrating the voyage of a steamboat journey from Glasgow to Liverpool.
This image shows a mad scramble at the Broomielaw to board the steamship on the left. On the right, family and friends are waving to passengers who have already set off down the river on board another paddle steamer. The lighthouse was situated at the south end of the Broomielaw's steamboat quay, at the foot of Hydepark Street. The large building at Springfield on the south bank of the river belonged to William Scott & Co, and was Glasgow's first steam-powered cotton mill.
The first paddle steamer to sail on the Clyde was the Comet in 1812. Steamships were a common sight on the river by 1825, and a popular means of transport before the advent of the railways and when road transport was still slow and uncomfortable.
Reference: Sp Coll Bh14-x.8
Glasgow University Library, Special Collections
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http://www.theglasgowstory.com/images/TGSB00130_m.jpg
Coloured cartoon from the Glasgow Looking Glass 23 July 1825, the third in the series "Shipping News". It shows the steamboat Post Boy arriving at Greenock from Glasgow, and passengers disembarking to wait for the arrival of the connecting service to Liverpool.
Reference: Sp Coll Bh14-x.8
Glasgow University Library, Special Collections
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http://www.theglasgowstory.com/images/TGSB00138_m.jpg
Coloured cartoon from the Northern Looking Glass 3 September 1825, the sixth and final cartoon in the "Shipping News" series. Under the title "Arrival at Liverpool" it depicts the chaos and confusion as passengers disembark from their steamer at Liverpool.
Reference: Sp Coll Bh14-x.8
Glasgow University Library, Special Collections
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http://www.theglasgowstory.com/images/TGSB00134_m.jpg
Coloured cartoon from the Glasgow Looking Glass 6 August 1825, the fifth in the series "Shipping News" shows the Greenock-Liverpool steamboat passing a Cloch Lighthouse opposite Dunoon on the Firth of Clyde. Under the title "Passing the Cloch: Pleasant breeze" it shows passengers buffeted by strong winds which have blown off the hat belonging to one passenger. Others are looking queasy, and several are being violently sea sick.
Reference: Sp Coll Bh14-x.8
Glasgow University Library, Special Collections
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This is Broomielaw too. circa 1850.
This one is from my own collection of photos.
I never took it!!!! ;D
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Did you ask a passer by to take it for you ;D ;D
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Yes, that's me 3rd in the queue at the ticket office.
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Hello all
Love the current discussion - but also all the information - its Fathers' Day in Oz today (over there too?) so we're out and about in the real world.
So just wanted to say many thanks - and should mention - the diary does talk about "my dear wife" being violently seasick - although that was in the sailing ship out on the open seas ;D
I shall study it all in great detail this evening
thanks again
Trish
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Actually, thinking about it, this view is looking towards the place that the Renfrew Ferry was moored until 2005.
Of course, the one used as a club now is not the original.
Here's a photo of one of the earlier ones.
Trish, glad you're enjoying the thread. I'm glad you started it.
Dave
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Yes, that's me 3rd in the queue at the ticket office.
In the white dress :o :o :o
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In an earlier re-incarnation!
Enough already ::)
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Hi All
many thanks again for all the info. I went to google maps and it did put together what everyone told me about the River Clyde & the location of Goven, Greenock & a few other places. Thanks BB for your note - amazing how many on RC have roots in Scotland! I have one name query left
The Renfrew Ferry went across The Clyde from Renfrew to Yoker - What/who is Yoker?
In your picture Dave (where you are standing in the queue :) ) would that be the Vulcan - or similar in the centre left. I am a little amazed that there was a steamship heading down to Liverpool in 1833 (or 1818 as given) when the trip to Australia was still mainly sail until 1870s! Tis my understanding that the Suez Canal had a reasonable say in the end of the sailing ship.
Thanks Myrrdin for the toll road & three mile house info - which Sancti & Dave also discussed. Does anyone know if the toll payment was by weight? These folks had 50cwt (I think 2.5 tons) of luggage!! Must have needed help getting that loaded (now that I remember a few relatives travelled as far as Liverpool with them - probably to help with the luggage!).
Thanks for all the links Sancti - the first one seems to give some good reasons as to why they left Paisley. A couple of relatives came out later, but many stayed behind. The family paid their own fare & had enough money to buy land in Australia & they did quite well. The cartoons are quite amazing (well to me) for 1825. The arrival at Liverpool fits the description as per the diary!
There is actually some family history for a few others in the diary - I perhaps should post some names on another thread - also a few tips for travellers
e.g. I went to the cook and gave him a teacup full of gin and soon got plenty of hot water & cups & soon we had a hearty breakfast
Trish
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Hi Trish
Yoker is an area on the outskirts of Glasgow that still exists today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoker
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Hi Trish
Yoker is an area on the outskirts of Glasgow that still exists today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoker
In my one and only trip to UK, we decided not to visit anything less than 200 years old - cause we started our European origins about 200 years ago over here (have all the modern stuff :D )- sadly I didn't make it to the areas of my roots in Scotland, so next time round we can probably follow the same rules. From your link
From the 14th century a ferry has linked Yoker with the burgh of Renfrew on the south bank :o :o My folks were probably tripping across the river back around 1373 ;D
Thanks Sancti
Trish
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Trish, does your diary mention any placenames in Paisley?
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Trish, does your diary mention any placenames in Paisley?
Sadly no - the diary is of the voyage & the last mention of Paisley is in the first 3 words "We left Paisley"
The only mention I ever found of the birth/baptism of my gg grandmother (eldest daughter of the trippers) was here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~patricia/muir_journal_.htm
P171 JANUARY --- 1821.
Saturday, 6th, Mrs R Miller, Paisley, was safely delivered of a Daughter, -- Mary
There are lots of parish names in the journal - not sure if places within Paisley are mentioned.
Trish
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That diary is a dream come true. Wish I had something similar. What a keepsake!
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Hi Trish,
You probably know this site .... but if not ... you could get a fund of info. at,
http://edina.ac.uk/stat-acc-scot/
For Free Access ... click Browse Scanned Pages
Choose PAISLEY as your parish
Much information on the social/economic conditions etc
I noted ....
Specifically re- Parishes of Paisley ...
Parishes of Paisley from 1781
Low
High
Middle
Parishes of Paisley from 1834 to 1845
Abbey
St George's
High
Middle
Johnston
Gaelic
North
Martyrs
Levern
South
Aye
DDJJAKE
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That diary is a dream come true. Wish I had something similar. What a keepsake!
Hi Dave
I assume you are speaking of the one I linked to above - that is truly an amazement - and I was dumbstruck to find my gg grandmother's birth when it was pointed out to me by a distant relative - I had spent a small fortune at SP to prove there was no church record of her birth!
Hi DDJ
Thanks for the link - I have been there in the past & always remember it when someone points me there again - a very worthwhile site
And thanks again all - I am now up to date with the trip from Paisley into Glasgow and onto the boat :) Probably my next mystery is deciding who/what headed them this way in the first place - the Rev Dunmore-Lang is no doubt a possibility!
Trish
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Hi Trish
The Vulcan still exists and is on show outside the Summerlee Heritage Centre in Coatbridge . It was built in 1818 and there were plans to rebuild it. You can find a picture of it here.
www.scotlandforvisitors.co.uk/oxnew2.php
If that link fails a simple google search " vulcan summerlee" will find it.
Researching Peacocks in Paisley any idea who Mr Peacock was?
Regards
Grahame
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Hi pk
I'm not sure that this is the same Vulcan as mentioned.
There is a record of a steam ship Vulcan sinking at the mouth of the Boyne river in Ireland 1865
http://www.irishwrecksonline.net/Lists/LouthListA.htm
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Grahame,
For a 1st post on RC, I reckon you might take the bucket and win a cigar!
That's amazing if it is the correct one.
2 questions....
How did you find this forum at the right time?
Are you interested in genealogy? or is it just luck? that Trish mentioned The Vulcan?
Excellent post!
Sacti, it is almost certainly the one I referred to earlier in the thread. Whether it's the one that the family sailed on?
Dave
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Hi
Possibly I've been a wee bit hasty, have found this which seems to indicate this Vulcan only worked on the Canals.That will be the reason it is in Summerlee on the Monklands Canal
"In 1818, Sir John Robison had an iron vessel (which he had designed in 1816) built for the passenger-traffic on the Forth and Clyde Canal, by Mr. Thomas Wilson, at Faskine, on the Monkland Canal, some six miles from Glasgow. She was called the "Vulcan," and was 61'x 11' × 4' 6"
I am interested in genealogy but tend to only browse the boards unless there is somethingI'm fairly sure of. In this case no bucket or cigar!!
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Grahame,
Yer no hasty at a!
That's the reference I jumped in with earlier. Maybe we both reached the same, probable, but probably wrong conclusion, possibly! ::)
Anyway, I'm still intrigued as to how you found the thread?
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Hello Grahame & welcome to RootsChat
Sadly I can tell you little more about Mr Peacock. He was obviously known to my folks - and was walking on the riverbank near Glasgow in the early evening of 1st August 1833. My folks were Robert and Elizabeth Miller (nee Muir) & their 6 children - the eldest missing a baptism record, the next child 1823 baptised in Middle Church, Paisley, the remainder in Low Church, Paisley. There is no further mention of Mr Peacock.
Thanks all - for even more information - that picture site would be really good it it didn't hit my screen with so many ads! I assume it has been decided that this was not the Vulcan that went to Liverpool? In the picture it doesn't seem quite large enough - there were a number of folks & much luggage on board.
Dave - the picture you gave of the Harbour - would that be the same ship - it appears much larger, I thought that was my Vulcan?
Trish
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Alas Trish, it's just a general view of The Broomielaw.
It's so long ago as well, I can't remember the name of the ship..... I was just annoyed at the length of the queue!
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Alas Trish, it's just a general view of The Broomielaw.
It's so long ago as well, I can't remember the name of the ship..... I was just annoyed at the length of the queue!
Ah laddie - you do lift the spirit even if it's the wrong boat ship 8)
Trish
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Sancti,
Can I just jump in here to thank you for the photo of the Renfrew Ferry. Unless I'm very much mistaken, this is the view from the Yoker side towards Renfrew. The large house on the right hand side was still there the countless times I crossed to go and visit my Granny who lived on Dumbarton Road (near Yarrows).
Many Thanks,
Christine.
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Hi Christine
Many thanks for adding to the thread - I love this thread & the pictures and the insights into my family - despite they left so many years ago
Trish
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Hi Trish,
I liked this photo so much because I crossed on that ferry so many times in my life. It wasn't exactly that 'ferry' but the later version which is now a restaurant. My brother and I used to race on and belt up the stairs to the top deck before my mother could shout at us to go inside because it was too cold. If we did have to go inside we would go and look at the engine. What a racket, and I can still smell the oil.
Fortunately the trip was a little easier than your relatives. We caught the bus in Paisley as opposed to a cart. :)
Christine.
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Good memories Christine ....... !! :D
I found this on Wiki Trish ... any good ?? - though it's probably exactly the same as what Dave and Grahame said !! ::)
Vulcan (barge)
The Vulcan, launched in 1819, was the first iron-hulled vessel (boat) to be built. It was designed as a horse-drawn passenger barge for use on the Scottish canals..
In 1816, the Forth and Clyde Canal Company, which had earlier successfully adapted new technology to shipbuilding with the Charlotte Dundas, authorized the development of an all-iron ship. In 1818, Thomas Wilson (1781–1873), was hired as the shipwright. The barge was to be 20 meters (66.5 ft.) long and narrow enough for the canal. The design called for iron sectionals to be riveted together with covering plates. Two blacksmiths were hired to construct the parts. The plating had to be hammered out of puddled iron as no iron rolling mills existed at the time. The iron was supplied by the Monklands Steel Company. The Vulcan was built outside of Glasgow, in Faskine near Coatbridge, on the bank of the Monkland Canal.
The Vulcan was launched in May 1819 and carried passengers between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Later it was converted to a cargo handler and was sold for scrap in 1873.
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Hi Trish,
I liked this photo so much because I crossed on that ferry so many times in my life. It wasn't exactly that 'ferry' but the later version which is now a restaurant. My brother and I used to race on and belt up the stairs to the top deck before my mother could shout at us to go inside because it was too cold. If we did have to go inside we would go and look at the engine. What a racket, and I can still smell the oil.
Fortunately the trip was a little easier than your relatives. We caught the bus in Paisley as opposed to a cart. :)
Christine.
I have an image of Mum and the children sitting on that cart - the older children probably thought it was a great adventure, Mother with the babe probably wished she had married a more "stay at home" type :D My childhood memory are the ferries on Sydney Harbour - it was such an adventure - the trip was more important than whatever we did on arrival at the other side of the Harbour ;D
It seems to be the same ship Annie - but not mine? - cause my folks went all the way to your namesake town on their Vulcan, but perhaps it did this as well? We may yet find a definitive answer.
Trish
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What name was this family Trish ... Kilgours ??
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What name was this family Trish ... Kilgours ??
No Annie - go back a page - just for you I will copy/paste
My folks were Robert and Elizabeth Miller (nee Muir) & their 6 children - the eldest missing a baptism record, the next child 1823 baptised in Middle Church, Paisley, the remainder in Low Church, Paisley
Trish
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The Transport Museum in Glasgow has a photograph of a vessel named "The Vulcan" which it states carried out a regular ferry journey of passengers from Glasgow to Greenock - this service started in 1832
The image appears to show no more than a glorified rowing boat , perhaps 20 to 30 feet in length with a steam engine and single funnel amidships and a single triangular sail near the bow.
The passengers were all standing - this image would appear to fit with the earlier descriptions but the family make no mention of transferring to a larger ship to continue their journey.
Addendum - its highly likely that there were other ships using the same name in that era http://www.kilmoregenealogy.com/shipwrecks_narrative.htm mentions a ship named Vulcan sinking off Kilmore in 1831 or 1833
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Hello RJ
Many thanks for your input - I'm sure the ship of my ancestors must have been larger than the picture previously given - the diary read to me as if it was a "type" of ship rather than the name - but it probably was one of many with the same name.
From the diary, there were some type of cabins on board, the Steward (known to the family) gave his "room" to my ggg grandma & children - while the men slept on deck.
Trish
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The Transport Museum in Glasgow has a photograph of a vessel named "The Vulcan"
I'll have a look for it when we're there in November.
Are you coming RJ? Or are you still hiding from the polis? ;D
We know who you are ;)
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Hi
If you go to the link below, select Search for Ships and then enter Vulcan as the name you will get a list of ships with that name. This is only a list of ships that relate to the Glasgow and Clyde region so no doubt there will be others with the name Vulcan.
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/shipview.asp
Andy
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Interesting Andy - but it would indicate that mine isn't there? The first mentioned as an Iron steamer is built 1855, which is what I thought mine was?
Trish
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Hi Trish
I'm wondering as to whether its the Paddle Steamer Vulcan. The 19th century British Newspapers has quite a few ads from the Liverpool Mercury for 1833 for the Vulcan. The company was The City of Glasgow Steam Packet Company.
Also on the NLA Licensed Databases is one called Project Muse. If you search for Vulcan and City Of Glasgow, the first hit is an article from July 2007 Vol 48 no 3. If you scroll down to page 480 there is a paragraph about sailings from Liverpool to Glasgow and that three new steamers were built for the City of Glasgow Steam Packet Company and a footnote at the bottom of the page says that the first two steamers were named John Wood after the hull builder and Vulcan after Napiers engine works.
A check of the Clydebuilt Ships Database shows that the John Wood was a Paddle Steamer (1831) so I think your Vulcan was also a Paddle Steamer.
Andy
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Possibly no connection but these stamps show an image of a steam ship from 1838 "The Vulcan"
http://www.sella.co.nz/general/antiques-collectables/stamps/great-britain/4lxh52/
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I did see mention of the paddle steamer Vulcan in the list Andy & wondered - the only paddle ships I am familiar with are the ones on the Murray which look a little different to the stamp picture - but it probably was the one mentioned.
I don't have my NLA card yet - I do have one from SLQ so will check if I can access your link there. I did read about Napiers when I first started looking for the Vulcan.
Thank you for the picture RJ - I could almost buy the stamps :) it seems the ship had sails as well as a steam funnel.
I very much appreciate all the information on this thread - more than I was ever expecting to get, when I get to Paisley/Glasgow I shall check it all out :) :)
Trish
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Three Mile House was situated at the corner of Hillington Road and Paisley Road West just across the road from my old doctors surgery (was a vets till recently now an Indian Restaurant.)
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Many thanks pancho - I shall look it up on google maps
Trish
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Did we not almost figure that out before?
BTW, I reckon you and I had the same doctor surgery Pancho, the gray converted bungalow? I'm trying to remember the doctors name but I'm struggling. I lived in Dryburn for 3 years until about '88.
Dave
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Hello Dave
We may have - I have been mainly offline for awhile - I didn't want pancho to think I was ignoring him/her (I have a thing about being invisible - you might have noticed).
You should be able to think of that name - at our age remembering yesterday is a problem - but 1988 - should be a breeze ;D
Trish
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/04jw/
Halfway in Paisley Road West
Click on the picture to make it slightly larger
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I didn't want pancho to think I was ignoring him/her
Does Trish know something we don't?
Kidding pancho! You can punch me on the 8th.
;D
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I had already posted before I realized it was a VERY old post and Dave The Doctors were Graham and ,Barnes and others I dont recall the others and Trish if you can get a hold of a book called "Old Cardonald " There are pics of Three Mile Cottage
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Hi pancho
the thread wasn't that old :) and your memory seems to be much better than is Dave's ;D ;D
Am I likely to find this book in a library in Oz? I shall try google
I have really enjoyed my trip from Paisley to Glasgow - thanks everyone
Trish
(My apologies for not checking your profile before writing him/her - I really hate to give Dave a "smart answer" opportunity!)
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Hello Trish
I doubt it would be available in OZ but Im sure you could order it online
Its called "Old Cardonald Had a Farm and its by John Innes .1993
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I found this link where you might be able to order the book hope I dont get into trouble
www.glasgow.gov.uk/.../Shop/Bookstoredetails.htm
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I can't get the link to work - but google finds a number of copies - interestingly $US154 on Amazon & 5 pounds from a UK site ???
Trish
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Hi Trish
Try this link to Glasgow Library bookshop, it has the missing bit to the link from Pancho.
http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/Library_Services/Your_Local_Library/Shop/Bookstoredetails.htm
Andy
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Oops sorry trish I suppose I should have payed more attention at school thanks Andy
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No worries - and thanks for the correct link. Google seems to think I am a bit stupid and should be looking for
"Old MacDonald had a Farm" :D
Trish
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3 mile cottage was a different building to 3 mile house. I found this map showing the toll and 3 mile house.
Moderator comment: image removed. Please link to the nls site rather post an image which may breach copyright. Thanks
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This one shows where the ferry would have crossed at Yoker (Yocker)
Moderator comment: Image removed. Please link to the nls map site rather than post an image which may breach copyright. Thanks
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Greenock harbour
The images from John Thompson's Atlas of Scotland 1832
http://www.nls.uk/maps/atlas/thomson/542.html
Moderator comment: Image removed. Please link to the nls map site rather than post an image which may breach copyright. Thanks
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Hi Sancti
Good to see this thread will never be complete - and many thanks for the maps and link. I haven't been much to the nls site - shame upon me. :(
Trish
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Hi Trish,
I found your entries Paisley to Glasgow very interesting (my mother was a Muir, but see no connection). I found your Muir journal which is brilliant. Is the diary entry of 1833 of the voyage mentioned Paisley Glasgow Liverpool also on this site (couldn't find it)
Thanks for the interesting reading.
Liz
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Hi Trish,
I found your entries Paisley to Glasgow very interesting (my mother was a Muir, but see no connection). I found your Muir journal which is brilliant. Is the diary entry of 1833 of the voyage mentioned Paisley Glasgow Liverpool also on this site (couldn't find it)
Thanks for the interesting reading.
Liz
Hi Liz
I love this thread - all sorts of different queries, information, associations and all. :)
The Muir journal is not mine - wish that it was! It is the only record I have found of the birth of my gg grandmother Mary White Miller, who was the oldest of the children who came on the trip from Paisley to Australia. (Not for want of spending money on SP :( )
My ggg grandmother was Elizabeth Muir, born Renfrew 25 may 1799. Her parents were James Muir (1751 Inchinnan) and mary Why/ite 1756 Erskine.
As far as I know the 1833/34 diary which covers the trip from Paisley to Australia is not online. I could be wrong as many hundreds of Australians would have copies of same. (Could try Google) A distant cousin (probably no longer with us) owned the diary & researched the family by travelling Australia looking for descendants in the 1970s. Fortunately he found my mother, and we received a copy of his "book" which included the diary.
Was there anything in particular you were wanting to know? The diary mentions a couple of Elizabeth Muirs brothers by name - they sailed with them to Liverpool - I understand they were a very close family & the parting was very sad for Elizabeth.
Trish
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I am researching the McAllister family who went from Moneymore in ireland to Govan where a few of them found work in the shipyards.
On one of the certificates I also have a McAllister address listed as Mosspark Farm Halfway by Govan. Does anyone know if there is likely to be any Valuation records for that address from 1887. I have searched the census for 1891 for the address and nothing is coming up. Any help would be much appreciated.
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This is the closest record I can find.
MACALLISTER
JOHN
Inhabitant Occupier
HOUSE MID AND EAST HENDERSON AND MOSSPARKS
ABBEY
1885
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Greenock is Southwest of Glasgow - not North.
I have a map spread out in front of me.
West-north-west. Definitely not south or even south-west. Saltcoats is south-west from Glasgow.
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The Mrs Brock who waved to the ship is almost certainly the wife of Henry Brock, a local worthy who was instrumental in establishing the Clydesdale Bank. Their large villa was beside the river at Cessnock Bank, Govan. The paddle steamer Vulcan was built in 1833 and provided a service from Glasgow to Liverpool.
Imber
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Thanks a lot for that info it's really appreciated. John McAllister does fit with the info that I have already found. Did you get the info from a census because I thought there was only a census taken in 1881 and 1891 or was it a valuation roll.
Thanks very much
Patricia
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I thought there was only a census taken in 1881 and 1891 or was it a valuation roll.
The census was taken every 10 years, and you can see the 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 ones at Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.
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Thanks yes it was because the census was every 10 years I wondered where the listing came from where the date was 1885. The family were not on the census at that address in 1881 and by 1891 they had moved to Govan and I have all the info from 1891 census. I have an 1887 document where one of the family gave the address as Mosspark farm halfway by Govan.
Perhaps the John McAllister listed as inhabitant of that address was listed on a valuation roll. I was hoping to find how many of the family were living at the Mosspark farm address but if it is a valuation roll perhaps that wont be possible. Thanks again for your help.
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Yes it was the Valuation Roll