RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: grandarog on Sunday 07 September 08 20:08 BST (UK)
-
Hello All,
Dont you just love a Mystery
My Uncle was Buried in Ramlah Cemetery Israel (formerly Palestine) age 22 on 4th July 1918 . I have everything well documented with photos of grave and cemetery etc.so no help required with that.
I have found a photo shown here which poses a mystery question. What was a Sergeant in the Royal Army Service Corps doing in Savona with the 41st Fanteria a year earlier on the 9th May 1917.? My Uncle is the Sgt in the middle between the 2 Italian Officers holding his hat on his Knees.
As far as I can recall from my mums recolections he went out to Egypt and Palestine direct from training in UK. I am at a loss as to what he would have been doing with Italian Infantry ,did we train them or what?
The Caption on the photo reads as follows.
MEMORIE SOTTUFFICIALI 41"- FANTERIA - SAVONA - 9-5-17 (translates as "Petty Memory ") ( Guess "- = st.. ) Fanteria is Infantry so = 41st Infantry
There appear to be a few other British NCO.s in the photo. The little lad at front with the Glengary and Spats has got to be British surely.
I must be rude and say the Italians look a motley bunch.
What can you come up with for answers? I am stumped at the moment.
Best Regards to you all,
Rog
-
Hello Rog,
Is it possible he was a survivor of the "Transylvania", that sank 4th May 1917 en route to Salonika.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_Results.aspx?CemeteryName=savona&send.x=47&send.y=15
Phil
-
Rog,
I don't know what Company your uncle was in, but 905, 906 & 907 Motor Transport Company ASC were on board.
Phil
-
Italy was an allied power in WW1 and in 1915 Britain and France had promised to provide troops and material if Italy called for it.
Though this article discusses the support given after your date, there is every probability that some was given before:
http://www.worldwar1.com/itafront/alliesitaly.htm
K
-
I think forester is rights.
The liner Transylvania, Lt S Brennel RNR , completed just before the outbreak of the First World War, was taken over for service as a transport on completion. She was designed to accommodate 1,379 passengers but the Admiralty fixed her capacity at 200 officers and 2,860 men, beside the crew. She was carrying nearly this number when she left Marseilles for Alexandria on March 3rd 1917, with an escort of two Japanese destroyers, the Matsu and the Sakaki. At 10 am on the 4th the Transylvania was struck in the port engine room by a torpedoe from a submarine.
At the time the ship was on a zig-zag course at a speed of 14 knots, being two and a half miles South of Cape Vado, Gulf of Genoa. She at once headed for the land two miles distant, while the Matsu came alongside to take off the troops, the Sakaki meanwhile steaming around to keep the submarine submerged. Twenty minutes later a torpedoe was seen coming straight for the destroyer alongside, which saved herself by going astern at full speed. The torpedoe then struck the Transylvania and she sank very quickly, less than an hour having elapsed since she was first hit.
Lt Brennell, one other officer and ten men of the crew, 29 military officers and 373 other ranks were killed."
Out of interest, the original CWGC registers give details of where men were buried relative to where their bodies were washed up. A number were buried in Savona town cemetery and, from memory, a memorial was erected to those who were drowned or killed in another Italian cemetery.
if your uncle was on his way to Alexandria, it looks as though he had an unexpected stop.
Rog
-
Hello Rog,
Is it possible he was a survivor of the "Transylvania", that sank 4th May 1917 en route to Salonika.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_Results.aspx?CemeteryName=savona&send.x=47&send.y=15
Phil
Snap Rog ! :)
On 3rd May 1917, the Transylvania, a troopship, sailed from Marseille to Alexandria with a full complement, escorted by the Japanese destroyers Matsu and Sakaki. On 4th May The Transylvania was torpedoed, close to Cape Vado in the Gulf of Genova, by German Submarine U-63. The Matsu came alongside the Transylvania and began to offload the troops whilst the Sakaki circled to force the submarine to remain submerged. After a second torpedo hit, the Transylvania sank immediately. In total 414 men lost their lives.
The bodies recovered at Savano (just north of Cape Vado), were buried two days later, from the hospital of San Paulo, in a special plot in the town cemetery. Others are buried elsewhere in Italy, France, Monaco and Spain. Savona Town Cemetery contains 85 Commonwealth burials from the First World War, all but two of them casualties from the Transylvania. Within the cemetery is the Savona Memorial which commemorates a further 275 casualties who died when the Transylvania sank, but whose graves are unknown.
Annie
-
Hello ,
Thankyou all,I just knew you would come up with the answers. No wonder the men look so sombre in the photo.Just lost all those comrades. Probably explains the civilian and the small lad as survivors .I understand it was usual for senior crew members to keep their families on board with them. (I dont know about during War time.)
Having since done some googling there are some very good articles about the incident also a complete nominal role of known casualties buried at Savona on Find a Grave site.The Cwgc also has details of the cemetery and a nice Photo.
There was also a memorial erected in the nearby town of Bergeggi in 1925.
I cribbed this from a Scuba Divingsite changed slightly for cc.
During 1925, a cross was raised on Bergeggi Promuntory in memory of the victims and of the rescuers of the Torpedoed Troopship Transylvania
The hull of the Transylvania lies at very high depth, more then -300m, some 3 miles off Spotorno coast, and was discovered in 1999 by researchers of the Centro Studi Attivitą Marinare in Vado Ligure.
The wreck is still unexplored.
Uncle John (known as Jack) was most certainly on his way to Alexandria with the rest of his Coy 906 RASC.
Thanks again , If I had thought to google Savona I neednt have troubled you all.so again a big thankyou.
Rog
-
Hello All,
Once again Thanks for your marvelous responses. Thought these pictures of Uncle Jack in Egypt a few weeks before his death and his grave marker on his orriginal grave before he was reinterred at Ramley Cemetry in Palestine (now Ramla in Israel)when it was built after the War.
Bye Rog
-
My Grandfather was one of the survivors from the "Transylvania" torpedo attack, My father has a photo of the funeral cortege going up Savona main street.
I have an old photo of him with 906th company in Damascus sometime after the sinking, I not sure if they carried on there after the sinking or went back to England and then returned to Damascus
-
Good Morning Davers,
Thanks for your input. I would be grateful and ,am sure our members would be delighted if you could copy the photos and add to this thread. My uncle Jack could well be one of the men on your Grandads' group photo at Damascus.
Thanks Roger.
-
This is the picture on my Grandfather (White shirt ) in Damascus 1917 with 906th mt company, one of the survivors of the Transylvania troop ship torpedo attack.
(http://)
-
Hi Guys I would love to find out more details about Sgt Jack Waghorn and Davers your Grandfather, I'm doing some research for our Squadrons centenary next year, we started as 906th now part of 150 RLC
Hope you can help.
-
Hi Guys I would love to find out more details about Sgt Jack Waghorn and Davers your Grandfather, I'm doing some research for our Squadrons centenary next year, we started as 906th now part of 150 RLC
Hope you can help.
My father had my grandfathers service records but I think they have been cleared from his house now but I could request copies again.
All I know was he was one of the survivors from the Transylvania sinking (he was a Lt with the 906th ) and they were picked up and taken to Savona.
There is a memorial and cemetery at Savona for those that were lost on the ship my parents went there 20 years ago to visit.
-
Hi Davers any information would be fantastic, we are planning on displaying any details up in our Bar/Mess What was your Grandfathers name?
-
Hi Jay_kd,
Thanks for your interest in my Uncle.
Sergeant M/205017. 906th Mechanical Transport Company, Army Service Corps (ASC). Died Thursday 4th July 1918 aged 22 years. John (known as Jack) was the youngest son of John and Frances Waghorn. Although his Brothers, Leon and Walter got through the first world war unscathed Jack died on active service in Palestine (now Israel). Their other son, Charlie was not medically fit for the Army. Jack is buried at Ramley Cemetery in Israel.
Jack is commemorated on the War Memorials, at Chilham, and Headcorn.Kent
With reference to my earlier post the third photo is the Memorial cross for the Transylvania Disaster.
-
Hello all, Merry Christmas.
I was delighted the other day when a cousin sent me this photo. She had found among her family archives.It must have been sent to my Grandma and Grandad ,by a mate of John/Jack, after his death.It shows a panoramic view of Ramleh and the 906 Company Camp site. Ramley is now named Ramla and is a few miles S/E of Tel Aviv.
The text reads:-
The tents to the right of the photo is the place Jack's Company was when I went to see him. Seeing these photo,s I thought you would like to have them.This was taken from the Old Tower.
Roger.
-
I was checking through some letters sent to my Grandparents Jacks Mum and Dad from Palestine .I was trying to establish who the photo was sent by, by comparing the hand writing.
One letter revealed (which I hadnt realised before) the identity of the other Serjeant on the camel behind Jack in the photo of them and the Sphinx at Cairo.He was HARRY WOOLDRIDGE a mate in Jacks 906 Co. RAOC. I have checked CWGC and harry appears to have survived the War.
-
Hi Davers any information would be fantastic, we are planning on displaying any details up in our Bar/Mess What was your Grandfathers name?
My Grandfathers name was
Lt Henry Charles Russell Smith
-
A bit late posting. (Covid got in the way)
As part of the village centenary celebrations of the Wars End in 1918 ,4 years ago. As a close relative of Jack my wife and I were asked to attend and lay a wreath at the Church War Memorial.
The owner of Cork Farm at Chilham, had organised a special memorial service at the Farm.
He had commissioned a Brass plate for the gate as it was Jack's home when he left to join the Army.
We all enjoyed a beautiful service of dedication by the local Priest at which 2 Veteran Buglers blew the Last Post. Then followed a social gathering to swap reminisces hosted by the Farm owner and his lovely wife.
-
I have recently found His Commemorative scroll in our Family Archives.