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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: An65 on Monday 08 September 08 20:48 BST (UK)
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This pair are stumping me.
Thomas Smith b.cir 1825-30 supposedly at Skillington Lincs, married Mary Brown b.cir 1830-1 (place unknown).
They had a daughter Deliah in 1848 at Ludborough who married Samuel Gray the s/o Christopher and Maria in 1871 at Horncastle. This Deliah also appears to have been baptised at Theddlethorpe St Helens in 1848.
It seems possible that Thomas Smith was one of the children of William Smith and Ann Elliot, as I found a very promising looking marriage, taking place after Deliahs birth.
23.04.1849 Wrawby By Brigg, Thomas Smith s/o William married Mary Brown d/o Thomas.
Their other children were:
Mercy b.1852 Theddlethorpe St Helens - there appears to be two baptisms for her, one in Spilsby in 1852, and as Morsey in 1853 at Theddlethorpe.
Mary Ann b.1854 Mavis Enderby, married David Rollingson in 1872 at Horncastle
Rebecca b.1856 Spilsby married Godfrey Goddard in 1875
Jane in 1860
Stephen in 1863 Horncastle, married Isabella Pierce/Pearce
John 1865
Walter c.1866 at Wainfleet, and also apparently again in 1866 at Melton Ross.
George 1868
Abigail 1872
Theresa 1875 Burringham. Poss baptised 1876 Bottesford d/o John & Mary 'Gypsies of Ashby'.
Can anyone shed any light on these folks?
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oh and I meant to add there is a Harry Brown c.1856 Wainfleet who married a Theresa and had a son Hezekiah baptised in 1900 at Louth..... I would love to know if that is the Theresa Smith named above.....
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hi An65
Have been looking for your people ...
I am not sure if this is your Thomas in 1851 but thought I would post ...he is single...
Sleaford, dogdyke
Ann Smith head mar 65 chair wooman (sic) b Estraparochal Adjamy Dogdyke
Thomas Smith son b 1829 Estraparochal Adjamy Dogdyke, Lincolnshire
George Thomas son 35 "
I was wonder if Ann = Ann Elliott
further up the road is another SMITH family
deb
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More and more and more I think Thomas is a son of William and Ann.......
Who were the other smith family?
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okay ...other Smiths;
Edward SMITH head mar 45 ag lab b Quarrington
Martha wife 41 b Carmathanshire
George son 16 b N Kyme
Edwin son 11 b Harts Ground Lincs
Eliza dau 6 b "
Herbert son 4 b N Kyme
Meretea dau 2 b Dogdyke
Martha dau 4 months b Dogdyke
deb
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Hi An65
Still searching ... found this;
Marriage; all these names on same page:
Jun q 1904 Doncaster
vol 9c p1293
Christopher Elliott
John Arthur Elliott
Mary Anne Mills
Abigail Smith
coincidence or what? ;D
deb
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Hi again
Okay ..have a theory on Rebecca Goddard nee Smith b 1856
She married Godfrey Goddard in 1875 ..I can't find them in 1881 but in 1891 I see this;
1891
65 Queen St, Louth
Thomas ELLIOTT head mar 36 horse dealer b Lincs
REBECCA ELLIOTT wife 35 b Horncastle
Sharlott dau 11 Barrow on Humber
Mercy dau 9 b Lincoln
Sam son 6 b Timberland ??
deaths: Note death q and year
Godfrey Goddard abt 1853 sept q 1877 Horncastle 7a 310
Godfrey Goddard abt 1877 sept q 1877 Horncastle 7a 310
Godfrey Goddard sept q 1877 Horncastle 7a 310
Think the last one is a repeat as on the original we only see the fisrt two.
okay then this marriage;
Rebecca GODDARD = Thomas ELLIOTT
Mar q 1892 Horncastle
vol 7a o 746
what do you think ?? I will search further
deb :)
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1901
Louth
1Monk Dyke rd
Thomas Elliott head mar 43 horse dealer b Cumbersworth lincs
Rebeckah wife 42 lic hawker b Ashby horncastle
mercy Elliott dau 18 b Lincoln
Samuel Elliott son 17 groom (not domestic) b Walkath?
2 Monk Dyke rd
fred SMITH head mar 27 ?? man b Alford
Easter Smith wife 28 b Aust?? Lincs
Albert son 3 b Louth
fred son 1 b Louth
3 Monk Dyke st
Anna Smith head 55 hawker b Spilsby
Elder Smith father 77 mar cloths pegg maker b Spilsby
Ethel dau 13 b Horncastle
charlotte dau 3 b Grimsby?
Betsy dau 1 b "
deb
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In 1901 Charlotte Elliott, 22 , single b Barrow, is a servant for Joseph Drayton , a licensed victualler for the Blue Bell Inn, 378 Victoria St, great Grimsby.
I am still looking for them in 1881 ... can't Spot any biths yet.
deb
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aaahhhh haaaaa
1881
Orby
Thomas Elliott head mar 26 gipsy horse dealer b NK
Sarah J wife 25 b NK
CHARLOTTE dau 1 b Orby
/
Gipsies Camp
john Smith head widr gipsy Lincs NK
edward son 17 single gipsy b louth
Richard son 12 gipsy b louth
can't see Rebecca Goddard nee Smith in 1881 :-\
deb
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hi again
have been working on ;
Walter c.1866 at Wainfleet, and also apparently again in 1866 at Melton Ross.
okay ...here's one ...
marriage;
Sept q 1890, Bourne
Eleanor Ann Abbott = Walter Smith
1891
Mill Lane Eastgate, Bourne
sarah Asrey head wid 77 b Bourne
WALTER SMITH boarder mar 26 Miller's lab b Bourne
Eleanor A Smith wife 22 b Bourne
William E Abbott Grandson 4 b Bourne
1901
Bourne
Walter SMITH head mar 36 ordinary ag lab
Eleanore wife 32
john W son 7
Florence L dau 4
Alb E ?? son 5 months
let me know what you think
deb
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an interesting marriage;
John SMITH = Alice GRAY
dec q 1884
Caistor
in 1901 there is a John Smith b 1867 kirby married to Alice and with kids.
not so such about this :-\
deb
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Have been looking for Theresa b c 1875
found this death;
Hezekiah Brown abt 1900 Dec q 1900 Louth Lincolnshire :'(
7a 332
deb
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Blimming heck slow down there woman you more obsessed than me lmao
I shall have to go and draw some of this up see if I can make sense of it.... well done for spotting Godfrey Goddard died. He had a son Godfrey Goddard who also died I think at the same time.
Wasnt aware of the Elliot marriage tho..... VERY interesting.
Many many thanks xxx
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Hi An65
Still searching ... found this;
Marriage; all these names on same page:
Jun q 1904 Doncaster
vol 9c p1293
Christopher Elliott
John Arthur Elliott
Mary Anne Mills
Abigail Smith
coincidence or what? ;D
deb
Thats really wierd because:
Constance Pierce aka Winter (also poss aka Smith) married Eldred aka Ephraim Brown and they had
Christopher who married Abigail Smith - they had two known daughters Alice and Constance.
Constance sister Sinfai (aka Sophia) married William Brown and they had John Arthur Brown who married Mary Ann Elliot.
Now all of this is according to the old records in the JGLS - but I have been able to find these people on the census and other records....
Constance was baptised in 1847 at Louth.
John Arthur Brown was born cir 1871 at Caistor.
is that marriage using alias's, and after the childrens births? such things are not unheard of in Romany circles.
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Hi ;D
obsessed ...me .... never 8)
when did Theresa marry Harry brown ...I cannot spot them in 1901.
deb
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That Hezekiah Brown was suposed to belong to the Brown side of the family.....
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I dont know Hezekiah was bapt at Louth in 1900 s/o Harry Brown and Theresa........
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ummmm so are you thinking that Christopher and john arthur ELLIOTT = Christopher and John Arthur BROWN??
Blimey
deb ;D
so hezekiah was harry's son and not necessarily Theresa's? Can't find a marriage for Theresa anywhere to a Harry/Henry.
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Well, that particular family used the aliases Smith Winter and Pierce so why not Brown as well? ::)
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Oh der Ive just realised.......
Feuck/Fudler/Fowk Heron/Hearn c.1794 married Polly ELLIOT
and they had Miseretta Hearn abt 1823, who married Eldred Winter/Pierce/Smith........ who had Constance who married Eldred Brown and had Christopher, and Sinfai who married William and had John Arthur.
Does that make sense?
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Blimey Blimey ;D ;D ;D
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You have to think backwards sometimes - but it feels great when you suss them out!
;D
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WOW Wee
do you think Mary Ann Mills on the marriage page could be Mary Ann Elliot then ?
deb
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One of the Mills married into the Elliots for sure, so its quite likely she was a Mills.
Trouble with working with old genealogies (with no dates) written many years ago by people working on what the Romanies actually told them, is that half the time the truth is in there somewhere but its hard to find. Some aged Romany probably said she was an Elliot - but she was actually a Mills. I have never found Mary Ann Elliot ........
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Had a bit of time for a nose around and go thru old notes....
Elder Smith in 1901 is Eldred Pierce/Winter/Smith.
He married Miseretta Heron the d/o Fowk and Polly Elliot.
He had a daughter called Ann abt 1864, which corresponds to the Anna on the Census b.cir 1866 at Spilsby.
He also had a son Fred abt 1853, now whether he survived or not I dont know, but there is another family there - Fred Smith born cir 1874.
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1901
Louth
1Monk Dyke rd
Thomas Elliott head mar 43 horse dealer b Cumbersworth lincs
Rebeckah wife 42 lic hawker b Ashby horncastle
mercy Elliott dau 18 b Lincoln
Samuel Elliott son 17 groom (not domestic) b Walkath?
2 Monk Dyke rd
fred SMITH head mar 27 ?? man b Alford
Easter Smith wife 28 b Aust?? Lincs
Albert son 3 b Louth
fred son 1 b Louth
3 Monk Dyke st
Anna Smith head 55 hawker b Spilsby
Elder Smith father 77 mar cloths pegg maker b Spilsby
Ethel dau 13 b Horncastle
charlotte dau 3 b Grimsby?
Betsy dau 1 b "
deb
so it all fits ... :D
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Onto Thomas Elliot b.1855 Cumberworth (ish)
he is listed as a grandson of Edward Elliot, and Edward Elliot married Martha (believed to be a Smith).
he married first a Sarah J, and then Rebecca Goddard nee Smith d/o Thomas & Mary.
Now also travelling with this family are John Smith b.cir 1835 with sons Edward b.cir 1863 Louth and Richard b.cir 1868 Louth. which nicely corresponds with John Smith and Julia who had Edwin b.cir 1864 Sheffield and Richard b.cir 1869 Carlton on another Census.
Also with them is a Sarah Brown b.cir 1842 Wootton.
John Smith and Julia also seem to hang about with one Lucy Brown b.cir 1822-30 Aichester? /Hardcastle Nthants who lived in the Hogsthorpe/Alford area.
Now I already had a bit on her: Shes the wife/widow of Sampson Brown b.cir 1822, and they had children called
Samson, Priscilla, Negekiah/Ezekial, Sarah, Nitabella, Joseph, Wilhelmina (who married a Mr Wild) ELDRED and Arthur.
In the 1841 cr this lot are recorded as hanging about with some Booths. Mary Booth b.cir 1800, Elohim (great name!) Keziah, Tobias and John.
Given the apparent closeness of the Smiths Elliots and Browns (and the Grays) I wouldnt be at all suprised to discover that this lot are my long lost relations.
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Now Miseretta Heron had a sister, Tienna b.cir 1830 Billinghay. She died in 1852 at Grainthorpe, apparently as a result of a mad dog bite.
She married Stephen Pierce b.cir 1824 Westborough, a possible (probable) brother of Eldred Pierce/Winter/Smith.
This family are listed as living at Cagthorpe Horncastle in 1861, along with a Mary Elliot b.cir 1800 Willoughby Notts (I recognise that name/place).
She had her son Elijah with her he being born cir 1825 at Boston.
Now Mary Elliot was bapt 1803 at Willoughby Notts the daughter of John and Jemima, making her sister to Edward Elliot and my ancestor, Ann Elliot who married William Smith.
It has only just surfaced in my head that Mary = Polly!
Polly Elliot married Fowk Heron.
According to the Revd George Hall (in the JGLS) Fowk married Polly Elliot, and her brother Edward married Louisa Heron. Well obviously thats wrong for a start!.
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Well reputedly (Revd Geo Hall again) this Louisa who married Edward Elliot had:
Tom James Elliot who married Perpagellion Heron and had Rodi (Rhoda) and Marenni.
and that dont werk........
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An65
I have to leave you with it as I am off to the beach for the weekend ....
quick question;
Elder Smith is with daughter Ann in 1901 ..he says he is MARRIED so where is Miseretta Heron?
Also Anna is 55 ...would she still be having children at that age ... Betsy is 1 and Charlotte 3?
Glad you have found your rellies .... will work on the others when I get back
deb :)
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Miseretta Heron could well have been off visiting her folkis...
Still working on the Smiths here,
Now I am convinced that Thomas Smith who married Mary Brown was a son of William and Ann Smith, my direct ancestors (twice over) and have been fumbling about trying to find other children of William and Ann...
John Smith c.1836 Potter Hanworth s/o William & Ann, vagrants of Colston Leic (William always described himself as being of Coleorton Leic)
2 years later Christopher Smith is baptised in the same place with the same parents, and again described as being of Colston.
I have a feeling thats John Smith who married Julia and had Edwin/Edward and Robert.....
I also found a Ledday Smith d/o William and Ann at Threekingham in 1832.
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AN65
Good Morning. Please forgive the intrusion but I'm new to this site and was just browsing through some of the posts when I came across this.
I am the great grandson of Steven and Isabella Smith. (Nee Pearce), so if your still interested in them I may be able to help.
Thank you
Cal
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Haven’t done any work on them for some years but would welcome any new information
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Hi, sorry for the delay in and replying.
Stephen Smith and Isabella Pearce had 8 children.
Elias (1887 - 1942)
Lydia (1890 -1966)
Walter (1891 - 1964)
Grace + Mercy (Twins born in 1895. Mercy d 1972)
Harriet (1897 - d?)
Maria (1900 - 1967)
Arthur (1902 - 1976)
Stephen and Isabella lived in Barrow on Humber when Arthur was born and Stephen died there in 1905 (heart). Isabella died in a house fire in Grimsby in 1937.
Neither Elias, Lydia, Walter or Harriet ever married or had children.
Grace and Mercy married their 1st cousins, George and Earnest Pearce respectively in a double ceremony.
Grace lived in Horncastle and I believe had 3 daughters, Margaret, Edna and ?.
Mercy lived in Grimsby and I believe had 2 or 3 sons and 4 daughters.
Maria married William Miller and had 2 sons, Walter and Earnest, and 2 daughters, Harriet and Ada.
Arthur, my maternal grandfather, married Emma Loftus (nee Cooley). Emma was a widow from WW1 and had 2 children, Edward and Syvia.
Arthur and Emma had a further 12 children, 4 boys and 8 girls.
Lydia (1920 - 2015)
Vina (1922 - 1931, drowned playing by the riverhead in Grimsby)
Mary Ann (1923 - 1976)
Stephen Charles (1925 - 2003)
Isabell (1926 - 2018)
Martin (1927 - 2019)
Louisa
Alice (1931 2012)
Arthur 1934 - 1934, died in infancy)
Ada
Margaret my mother.
Nathaniel (1941 1993)
I hope this is of interest to you
Thank you
Cal.