RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: Lass on Monday 15 September 08 12:18 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
In the course of investigation, I've found that a couple of ancestors were married at Dunnottar House, Dunnottar. I wanted to see if I could find any pictures of it, but nothing has turned up - google brings up nothing but the castle. Google maps, on the other hand, takes me straight to Dunnottar House without batting an eyelid. I'm wondering if this is a 'new' Dunnottar House after the demise of the original. Can anyone point me in a helpful direction to find an image of the house?
Thanks!
Lass x
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http://www.mearns.org.uk/stonehaven/dunwood.htm
Gives a passing reference to the House being built in 1806.
Am away to the NLS and shall get an old map reference.
Regards, Steve :O)
http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/oneinch_1st_list.html
will take you to the first edition of the OS maps - go to sheet 67 for Stonehaven and zoom in - Dunottar House is inland from the castle.
If you haven't used the site before - once you've got the image sized the way you like it do a right click to save.
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In his book "Highways and Byways Round Stonehaven" Archibald Watt mentions that ....."Dunnottar House, a large and somewhat bald looking classical building, built in 1786 and demolished in 1957 or 1958. It was originally the elegant home of a branch of the Kennedy family, a famous Scottish family the head of which was the Marquis of Ailsa, and latterly was lived in by Captain W.H. Ritchie who owned Glenury Distillery. Now only some huge slabs of granite by the roadside mutely testify to the presence in the past of a building opposite".
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http://www.mearns.org.uk/stonehaven/dunwood.htm
Gives a passing reference to the House being built in 1806.
Am away to the NLS and shall get an old map reference.
Regards, Steve :O)
http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/oneinch_1st_list.html
will take you to the first edition of the OS maps - go to sheet 67 for Stonehaven and zoom in - Dunottar House is inland from the castle.
If you haven't used the site before - once you've got the image sized the way you like it do a right click to save.
Thanks so much Steve- the link works fine for me, but when I try to open the sheet, I get a new window says web page could not be displayed...... is it just me?? I can't understand why it's happening, I've tried going to the sheet from the map too, but no joy........
I had seen the passing reference to the House in the mention of the woods, but like I say, I've just been totally unable to find an image which is frustrating me!
Lass x
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In his book "Highways and Byways Round Stonehaven" Archibald Watt mentions that ....."Dunnottar House, a large and somewhat bald looking classical building, built in 1786 and demolished in 1957 or 1958. It was originally the elegant home of a branch of the Kennedy family, a famous Scottish family the head of which was the Marquis of Ailsa, and latterly was lived in by Captain W.H. Ritchie who owned Glenury Distillery. Now only some huge slabs of granite by the roadside mutely testify to the presence in the past of a building opposite".
Interesting stuff, thank you so much Isles. I had wondered if perhaps it was fairly commonplace for the locals to be married at the 'big house', or if perhaps there was more to it. Such a pity it's gone, but I find it odd that there's no sign of any pictures on the net anywhere. Perhaps I'm just not looking in the right places.
Lass x
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Just back off the NLS site - went in via Google rather than the link and also come up with the white screen, so must be their server..... Regards, Steve :O)
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Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures but found this in "The Haven under the Hill" by Elizabeth Christie -
1806 - Dunottar House was built
1814 - Lord William Kennedy married Eleanor Allardice and took up residence
1835 - House changed hands, to General Nathaniel Forbes
1851 - House passed on to his son, Charles William Mackay Forbes
1901 - Property sold to William Ritchie
After William Ritchie's death, the house was let to several tenants until it eventually was reduced to rubble. "Dunottar House had a beautiful walled garden which was well known for its magnificent flowers and vegetables and for the gardeners who produced them, Messrs. McHardy and Mitchell"
A couple of links for Stonehaven research which might be useful -
http://www.stonehaven-heritage.org/content/index.asp
http://www.geocities.com/thistleinn/index.html
Elaine
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Just back off the NLS site - went in via Google rather than the link and also come up with the white screen, so must be their server..... Regards, Steve :O)
Glad it's not just me, sometimes Firefox throws a wobbly.
Lass x
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Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures but found this in "The Haven under the Hill" by Elizabeth Christie -
1806 - Dunottar House was built
1814 - Lord William Kennedy married Eleanor Allardice and took up residence
1835 - House changed hands, to General Nathaniel Forbes
1851 - House passed on to his son, Charles William Mackay Forbes
1901 - Property sold to William Ritchie
After William Ritchie's death, the house was let to several tenants until it eventually was reduced to rubble. "Dunottar House had a beautiful walled garden which was well known for its magnificent flowers and vegetables and for the gardeners who produced them, Messrs. McHardy and Mitchell"
A couple of links for Stonehaven research which might be useful -
http://www.stonehaven-heritage.org/content/index.asp
http://www.geocities.com/thistleinn/index.html
Elaine
Elaine, thank you so much, very interesting information, I can do some research on the house owners and see if that turns up anything. Sounds like it was a beautiful place, reminds me very much of the estate that my grandfather worked on when I was young, I have very happy memories of the walled garden at the 'big house'!
Lass x
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Dunnottar House is very well known to Kennedy historians, and both the house and the Allardyce family are discussed in Michael Moss's book 'The magnificent castle of Culzean and the Kennedy family'. Sadly Lord William was a terrible gambler and left the estate burdened with debt and when Eleanor too died the family were forced to sell it off.
Iain Kennedy
www.kennedydna.com (http://www.kennedydna.com)
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Looks two families had it !! :)
ALLARDICE OF NEW DUNNOTTAR
ALEXANDER ALLARDICE Esq. Of New Dunnottar, Mearns, made his fortune abroad and on his return to his native country he purchased the estate of Dunnottar. He left an only daughter and heiress, Eleanor Allardice who married, 1st May 1814, the Hon Archibald Lord Kennedy (died Earl of Cassilis 12th August 1832) and by her (who died 23rd November 1832) he left issue nine sons and one daughter. The Countess of Cassilis lived to see her patrimonial estate alienated to General Nathaniel Forbes of Auchenrach.
ARMS - Argent, a fesse wavy, gules between the three boars' heads couped, sable.
CREST - A demi-savage, a-frontee, wreathed, holding in his dexter hand a scimiter, proper. MOTTO -In defence of the distressed.
CHIEF SEAT - was Dunnottar House, a fine mansion closely embowered amid finely wooded and extensive grounds and gardens about a quarter of a mile west of Stonehaven.
http://www.allerdice.net/Documents/Allardice%20History%20Cowie1.htm
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Hi everyone!
Thanks for the latest information, every snippet is welcome. Googling for Allardice and Dunnottar, I've come up with the following link: http://www.rootschat.com/links/04bv/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/04bv/)
This suggests that the house was known as Kirkhill (if I'm reading it correctly) but I'm still frustrated by being unable to find any images. :-[ Do you know of where I might find one Iain, being familiar with the history?
Lass x
edit: link shrunk!
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Apologies all, no idea how to shorten that link ::)
Lass x
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Try this !!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/
Annie :)
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Thank you Annie, worked a treat! ;D
Lass x
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Hallo again Lass.
While searching for a website showing a photo or drawing of Dunnottar House I came across this which shows that someone is building or has built a house on the site of the original house. No luck with a photo or drawing :'( :'(
www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/planning/apps/detail.asp?ref_no=APP/2007/4853
Isles.
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Hi again Isles ;D
Thanks for that link, it's interesting to see that the planning app is to put a conservatory on an existing property. I'm going to take a look and see if this is the site of the original house, or if perhaps it's slightly different and simply named Dunnottar House. I have to say, from the planning diagram, it does look like it's the original site. I just can't believe that there are no pictures or drawings out there in the land of the web (!) especially since the gardens particularly seem to have been held in high regard. Grrrr!
Lass x
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There is a picture of it in Moss's book but its not a very interesting one I'm afraid!
Iain Kennedy
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Hi Iain
I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps it's the only picture of the house in existence! ;) Thanks for confirming that though, I'll see if I can get if via my local library and take a peek.
To be perfectly honest, I don't know why I'm so hung up on this, when I tell myself enough's enough, it can't be found, it creeps back into my head!! ::) ;D
Thanks for everyone's help - if I ever find anything else, I'll be sure to let you know!!
Lass x
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I found you a picture of Dunnottar house and will send it by PM.
Isabel
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Isabel, you're a star! Your help is very much appreciated, so glad I can now put this to rest! I'm going to contact Stonehaven Heritage, as you suggested, and see whether they might have any pictures they would share.
Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread, I've learned a lot about Dunnottar House, which has led me to get to know the surrounding area better too, so now I can appreciate my ancestors' lives more.
I wouldn't want to cause any problems with copyright by posting the pic in here. If anyone else is interested in seeing the house, send me a pm with your email addy and I'll forward a copy to you, with due gratitude to Isabel for finding it ;D
Lass x
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Hi Lass,
I am in the process of gaining permission to dive in the bays either side of the castle.
I was there with my wife and son on Saturday and have to say that it one of the most beautiful castles in this area.
I sport dive and thought that this bay looked great for a series of shallow dives.
I have been in touch with my local dive club and no one has dived here as far as we know.
I am not a treasure hunter and will leave any artifacts I find and will inform the owners of any potential finds.
My aim is to photograph the area and map the topography of the seabed and caves for future divers.
I will let you know if I find anything.
I do have some recent photos of the castle if you want to look.
I look forward to your reply.
Kind Regards, Peter.
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Hi Peter
Sounds fascinating, I hope you get permission for your dive! To be honest it was really Dunnottar House I was interested in, but the castle is beautiful and I'm sure everyone here would love to know how you get on with your dive, so please keep us updated! :D
Lass x
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Hi Lass,
We live in Stonehaven and have just been exploring in Dunottar Woods, which is why I stumbled across your posts as I was also trying to find out information about the house. There is an 'ice house' which must have belonged to the house still there as well as the walled garden which now houses Dunottar Nurseries. You might also want to look up 'the shell house' or hoosie'. Eleanor Kennedy had it built in the gardens for her 10 children and it is facinating and beautiful. It was completely covered over with ivy and buried, but is now renovated as a tourist attraction. No sign at all of the house and I have never heard anything of it since I have lived here. You might do well contacting Gordon Ritchie at Connons Solicitors in the town - he has a great interest in the history of Stonehaven. Anything else I can find out locally I will post again.
Claire
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http://www.frcc.forestry.gov.uk/website/FCPicLib.nsf/Images/8C5F435B586F81EC802570600073D0AF?OpenDocument&PrintFriendly=y
Sorry, huge link! A picture of the Shell Hoosie
Claire
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Hi Claire
Thanks so much for your interest and for directing me to Gordon Ritchie, it's not what you know, it's who!! ;) ;D
I'd seen pictures of the ice house and the shell hoosie, it's fabulous! I just couldn't believe the distinct lack of photographs of the actual house, I suppose with the internet these days, it's easy to take it for granted that everything is readily available!
I'd love it if you can keep me updated with anything more you find locally, and I'll do the same for all information gathered at my end!
Lass x
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Hi Claire,
Welcome to Rootschat and thank you for the link...fascinating. I'm in Aberdeen but I've never heard of it... I will put in on my list of things to see :)
Elaine
P.S. If you scroll down to the bottom of any page here, you can click on a handy thing for shrinking links :)
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Hi,
Re Dunnottar House....I stayed at Dunnottar House from 1948 until 1954...i.e. from 2 yrs old to 8yrs. old.....Some memories of it still...My brother George is 5 years older than me so should have better memories.
My parents Alexander and Elsie Copland lived there whilst my father worked for BR...They were really caretakers before the house was eventually demolished due to high rates by the then owner....I'm not sure who the owners were then but "Stuarts" come to mind.
Dunnottar House was very large and had large rooms...difficult to heat as you can imagine and we lived in a small area of the house...I remember the woods with the large punch bark trees and "Hangman's Hill" and the large walled garden...Could still be there today...Also there was a great storm which destroyed some of the woodland...I vaguely remember the woodcutters...also the shell house.....and the small burn (river) that ran through the woods...There was even a bathing area in the river would you believe...Also the flatted lead roof area where you could sunbath
Anyway, I have found an old family photograph taken at the front doors of Dunnottar...probably late Victorian or Edwardian and also I have a photo of my family taken in the grounds, but unfortuneately not of the house itself...I would have to get the photos scanned to get them digitised for e-mailing if you were still interested...
Regards...IMJC.
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hi imjc :)
would that storm have occured in 1953 ?
ev
ps welcome to rootschat :)
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/anniversary/floods1953.html
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Thank you....Yes 1953 was the storm of the century....The woodland would have been badly affected...See attached photo for background before storm....
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Another Photo....Taken front of Dunnottar House early 20 Century...see attached...
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Wow Coplani, these are wonderful photos!!! What a treasure.
It really looks like it was a beautiful place, such a shame, such a pity, that it's no longer there. :(
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hi coplani :)
nice photo
about 1900 :-\
but why so glum ???
ev
ps
looking at the photo again maybe i am being a bit harsh as a lot of photo's
of this age are the same
1905 - 1910 on reflection ;)
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Yes,
It was a beautiful place...I also remember Fetteresso Castle and the grounds. which was owned laterly by a farmer called Jamed Farquahar...who farmed at "The Feathers", just outside Stonehaven..He was an uncle so I visited there many times.
However Fetteresso deteriorated after the previous owners removed the roof..again to save rates....and eventually only the shell remained...However Fetteresso was redeveloped and made into executive flats...
It is a shame that these 2 properties ended up derelict..They would have been magnificent properties had the owners survived the then economic climate...But that is life... nothing stays the same and times change...I think even more rapidly today.
There would have been many other properties/ estates that ended in the same way...
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Hi Lass
Charles McKay Forbes, who sold the house in 1900, was my great grandfather. My mother has the sale particulars at home, which have all the details of the house (albeit in Victorian estate agent speak!) and a few pictures. When I am at home over Christmas I will try to take some copies and post them.
If you could PM the picture you have at some point, I'd be very grateful.
IMJC - it's amazing to me to think that you actually lived there! I'm fascinated by the photos: I wonder if the earlier one has any of my relatives in it.
Best
Jamie
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Hi Jaimie!
What a wonderful heritage you have! I'd love to see anything you can find on the house, it's really grabbed me and I'm not sure why!!
PM on the way to you as requested.
I look forward to hearing more, so excited!
Lass
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Hi Lass
Here are some pictures from the sale particulars for the sale in 1900. Hope they may be of interest to you, or anyone else with an interest in the house.
Jamie
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And a few more
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And more!
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And more...
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Last one.
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Jamie!!! How wonderful, thank you for sharing these!!!! I'm off to take a good look/read through these now, you're an absolute star!!! Thankyou thankyou thankyou! :-*
Lass x
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Yes,
This is the house as I remember it....Fascinating pictures...Thank you very much...Memories are a wonderful thing....I must mention this to my brother George when I see him in the New Year...Maybe he will add some more details...I've still to ask him if he has any old photos of Dunnottar...But I would think not as we did not have a camera...The photo in the wood must have been taken by someone else...
IMJC.
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Hi Lass.
A friend has just loaned me a booklet, "Dunnottar Woods and House 1782-2008" in which you may be interested. It is by George D Swapp, OBE, DL, MA and was published in November last year by the Stonehaven Heritage Society, 50 Allardice Street, Stonehaven, AB39 2RA. It has 48 pages but there is no mention of cost.
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hi all :)
found this -
http://www.mearns.org.uk/stonehaven/dunwood.htm
ev
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i thought dunlop invented the pneumatic tyre :o
step forward robert william thomson of stonehaven :D
ev
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Hi Lass.
A friend has just loaned me a booklet, "Dunnottar Woods and House 1782-2008" in which you may be interested. It is by George D Swapp, OBE, DL, MA and was published in November last year by the Stonehaven Heritage Society, 50 Allardice Street, Stonehaven, AB39 2RA. It has 48 pages but there is no mention of cost.
Thanks for that Isles, I'll contact the SHS and see if I can get hold of a copy, you're a treasure!
Lass x
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Hi everyone!
Hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here, please forgive me, but even after all this time, I haven't been able to let this go!
I found this today: http://www.rootschat.com/links/08kw/ and it's raised more questions for me than answers. It clearly says that this Dunnottar House should not be confused with the one demolished in 1959 ???
Presuming the last paragraph in that link pertains to the manse house, then perhaps the wedding of my great great grandparents at 'Dunnottar House' wasn't as grand as I first thought!! The last paragraph pertains to the land of Dunnottar House, including the farming land - this includes Upper Criggie and East Carmount, which is precisely where both sides of the family ancestors are to be found on the census, farming up to 121 acres.
To be precise, the wedding was that of William Duthie and Mary Turriff (my great great grandparents) in 1855. The marriage cert states they were married at the 'House of Dunnottar'. At the time of their marriage, Mary's father Alexander Turriff was a Farmer of 121 acres at Upper Criggie. At the time of the marriage, William was recorded as a Farm Servant at Criggie. The 1861 census has them at Criggie, and William as a Ploughman. In 1871 they have popped away to Fetteresso where William is an Ag Lab. They then return to East Carmount where William is recorded in the 1881 census as Farmer of 110 acres. Upon his death 10 years later, his personal estate was £524. I presume this would have been a lot of pennies in them days??
The reason that has reared it's head again is because I finally laid hands on a photo of my great grandparents, and in conversation with family it was brought up that great granny had been brought up 'well heeled' rather than as just a country farmer's daughter. Of course this made me hark back to the wedding of her parents and gave me pause for thought that they were relatively well-to-do!
Lass x
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Hi Lass,
This is only speculation, of course, but if the "big house" was only demolished in 1959, I suspect that the former manse would not have been called Dunnottar House until some years afterwards. On that basis, my money is on the wedding being in the original house.
Jamie
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The Statistical Accounts of Scotland 1834-45, mention both Dunnottar House (built 1806) and Dunnottar Manse (built 1786).
Are you absolutely sure the marriage certificate says House and not Manse? From transcriptions I have done recently, I have found that in some handwriting the words "House" and "Manse" are almost indistinguishable one from the other. Unless your relatives had some actual connection to the House, eg through family or employment there, the manse would have been a more likely venue.
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Hello Jamie, Coplani, Lass and all
This is somewhat late in the day perhaps, but I would like to contribute as I am very interested in much of the information, and in particular the photographs, relating to Dunnottar House. I am in the process of conducting genealogical research into the family of my partner whose great grandfather William Ritchie, a distiller in Stonehaven, lived with his family for many years in Dunnottar House.
As census records have William Ritchie and his family residing at Dunnottar House in 1881, 1891 and 1901, it would appear that they must have been tenants prior to purchasing the property around 1901 - from Charles Forbes? As the photograph provided by Coplani was from around 1900, perhaps members of the Ritchie family are included.....unfortunately my fiance has no family photos from any period before the 1950's. I wonder if Jamie and/or Coplani have any more information or photographs regarding the house around this period. It is also of interest that William's brother David (wine and spirit merchant) lived for some time nearby at Netherley House - it seems that this house too was sold by the Forbes family in around 1901.
Regards PeteHi Lass
Charles McKay Forbes, who sold the house in 1900, was my great grandfather. My mother has the sale particulars at home, which have all the details of the house (albeit in Victorian estate agent speak!) and a few pictures. When I am at home over Christmas I will try to take some copies and post them.
If you could PM the picture you have at some point, I'd be very grateful.
IMJC - it's amazing to me to think that you actually lived there! I'm fascinated by the photos: I wonder if the earlier one has any of my relatives in it.
Best
Jamie
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Hi Pete
I'm afraid I don't have any photos of the house or occupants other than those I've already posted. However, I can certainly confirm that the family also sold Netherley House in 1901, and I also have the sale particulars for that sale (although not currently in digital form, sadly).
Regards
Jamie
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Hi again Jamie, and thank you very much for your response.
I was delighted to find your photographs of the Dunnottar House sale....I saved them and now have them linked to the entries regarding William Ritchie's family in my computerized family tree.
We have virtually no information regarding Netherley House, other than a couple of photographs - one has "Messrs. Lumleys Ltd, Land Agents" printed in the bottom right corner (possibly taken at the time of the sale in 1901?).
Regards, Pete
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Hi,
We have just had a very pleasent day visiting Stonehaven.
Walked around Stonehaven and Dunnottar Woodlands, the old walled garden, the shell house and the ice house on hangman's hilltop.
Great exercise.....Along the way, we bumped into an elderly person who resides near where Dunnottar house used to be. He has resided there since 1962.
He mentioned that the owner of Dunnottar House and surrounding area prior to it being demolished was an Andy Stewart, who was a scrap metal dealer in Stonehaven, and lived near Stonehaven harbour. Also had a antiques/ s/h furniture shop in Stonehaven until quite recently, I believe.
Before it's final demise, the house was stripped of anything of value, including the lead on the roof etc.
Then the house + estate was sold to a trust (perhaps an insurance company)...This company finally demolished the house totally..around 1959.
I speculated that the Ritchies must have sold the house and estate to the scrap metal man, but when I do not know.
It appears that the surrounding area/ woodlands is now in the hands of the Forrestry Commission.
Regarding the old photograph, I'm afraid, that this was found in my mother's collection and we really do not know anything more about it...I suspect that it was found in Dunnottar when we lived there.
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Hello all,
While researching the history of a rare sporting rifle made by J Rigby & co,London in 1904, i came across an entry in their ledgers that it was supplied to a Mr H.O Ritchie esq, Dunnottar House, Stonehaven on the 19th August 1904.
I was wondering if he was one of William Ritchie's sons and if anyone may have any further information about the family?
I enclose a photograph of the entry in the Rigby ledger (hopefully!, not very good at this!)
Many thanks & kind regards
William
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There is a Henry Oliphant Ritchie born 1867 Dunnottar.
ev
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Thank you so so much ev! That is really great to hear, I really look forward to moving ahead with my investigations now. Fabulous to finally have a name!
Very many thanks again!
Willsg
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Scotlands People is a great source....
But you will have to buy some credits...About £5 will do...On line or from a Scottish library.
Look for Census returns....Tick the 1901 and 1911 boxes (or earlier if you want) and then put in Rirchie as surname and Kincardine County and then Dunnottar district...The search will reveal all the Ritchies who lived in the Parish of Dunnottar at those dates...Not many... 9 results.
View the census records and they will reveal all....
Ian
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Brilliant! Thanks due again Ian. Excuse my ignorance, I've not done this sort of research before and your kind advice is very much appreciated.
Yours sincerely
William
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England, Oxford Men and Their Colleges, 1880-1892 - Oxford Men and Their Colleges, 1880-1892, 2 Volumes.
Sandra
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1881 census Dunnottar House Dunnottar Rd Kincardineshire.
ED 3 Page 5 Line 13
William Ritchie 64 Distiller (Employing 15 Men And 5 Women Serv)
Margaret Ritchie 49 Distillers Wife
William H Ritchie 19 Margaret H Ritchie 18
David Ritchie 17 Charles E Ritchie 15
Harry O Ritchie 13 Frederick Ritchie 11
Jessie Hamilton 38 sister-in-law
Mary A Beattie 29 cook domestic
Agnes Leith 30 table Maid Domestic Serv
Anne Cowie 30 laundress Domestic Serv
Anne Stephen 23 housemaid Domestic Serv
Sandra
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1901 census Dunnottar House Kincardineshire.
ED 3 Page 1 Line 19
William Ritchie 84 Distiller.
William H Ritchie 35 Distiller.
Harry O Ritchie 33 Distiller.
Frederick Ritchie 31 Advocate.
Jessie Hamilton 57
Ann Jack 52
Elizabeth Strachen 30
Margaret Mc Etdie 30
Maria Machie 23
Christian Strachan 22
Hector Smith 24
Sandra
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In his book "Highways and Byways Round Stonehaven" Archibald Watt mentions that ....."Dunnottar House, a large and somewhat bald looking classical building, built in 1786 and demolished in 1957 or 1958. It was originally the elegant home of a branch of the Kennedy family, a famous Scottish family the head of which was the Marquis of Ailsa, and latterly was lived in by Captain W.H. Ritchie who owned Glenury Distillery. Now only some huge slabs of granite by the roadside mutely testify to the presence in the past of a building opposite".
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=327768.0
1806 - Dunottar House was built
1814 - Lord William Kennedy married Eleanor Allardice and took up residence
1835 - House changed hands, to General Nathaniel Forbes
1851 - House passed on to his son, Charles William Mackay Forbes
1901 - Property sold to William Ritchie
After William Ritchie's death, the house was let to several tenants until it eventually was reduced to rubble. "Dunottar House had a beautiful walled garden which was well known for its magnificent flowers and vegetables and for the gardeners who produced them, Messrs. McHardy and Mitchell"
Sandra
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A couple of links on the Glenury....
https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/b/40/glenury-royal-single-malt-scotch-whisky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenury_distillery
Ian
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Wow!! I don't know what to say! After several months trying to trace Mr H O Ritchie and coming up with snippets of information that I wasn't sure were related, it wasn't until this Thursday, when I visited Rigby that I finally got an address. You have just tied everything together in one hit Sandra. I Cannot thank you and everyone else enough!
Interestingly the rifle was send back to London at the beginning of the first world war for military conversion ( most likely for early sniper use). The Rigby historians are looking into who sent it and hopefully with this new information I can fill in the gaps. I Apologies for not posting pictures of the relevant documents but my photos are too high a resolution to post.
Very many thanks again!
Yours sincerely
William SG
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Pleased to have helped. Hope you can find further info
Regards
Sandra ;)
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And....If anyone wants to follow up using Scotland's People. they can find out about the Ritchie descendants by searching BDMs....If they resided, married or died in Scotland...
Ian
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1920/1925/1930
Henry Oliphant Ritchie Netherley Mansion House Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Ruby Bessie Ritchie (same address)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherley_House
1945 Henry O and Aileen R Ritchie Netherley Mansion House. Aberdeenshire Scotland.
Sandra
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Probate .............. 11 December 1953 - Netherley-By-Stonehaven - probate London 11 February 1954
Sandra
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Brother Frederick Ritchie died 3 August 1936 Banchory, Aberdeenshire, Scotland - probate 26 October 1936.
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
William Ritchie - 10 July 1816 - 24 March 1909 Dunnottar, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Burial - Dunnottar Kirkyard Dunnottar, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/148321192
wife Margaret Hamilton Ritchie - passed away 31 August 1900
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/148321115/margaret-ritchie
Sandra
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William Ritchie - Probate 20 May 1909
Sandra
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David Ritchie - 5 February 1866 - England, Oxford Men and Their Colleges, 1880-1892 - 19 October 1883 -
Passed away 12 July 1935 - Probate 18 May 1936 London.
Sandra
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England, Oxford Men and Their Colleges, 1880-1892 - William Hamilton Ritchie - 18 January 1883 -
Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
William Hamilton Ritchie - 30 January 1944 probate Llandudno 2 May 1944
Sandra
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Crickey!!! Smashed it again Sandra!
You're very good at this :)
Thank you again!
William
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Is there a 1911 census for the Ritchies at Dunnottar.?
Trying to pin down that picture in front of Dunnottar..
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Scotlands People have the 1911 census
Frederick Ritchie - 1911 - M - aged 41 years - 255/ 3/ 3 - Dunnottar - Kincardine
William H Ritchie - 1911 - M aged 49 years - 255/ 3/ 3 - Dunnottar - Kincardine
William Ritchie - 1911 - M aged 2 years - 255/ 1/ 4 - Dunnottar - Kincardine
Sandra
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Hi everyone!
Hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here, please forgive me, but even after all this time, I haven't been able to let this go!
I found this today: http://www.rootschat.com/links/08kw/ and it's raised more questions for me than answers. It clearly says that this Dunnottar House should not be confused with the one demolished in 1959 ???
Presuming the last paragraph in that link pertains to the manse house, then perhaps the wedding of my great great grandparents at 'Dunnottar House' wasn't as grand as I first thought!! The last paragraph pertains to the land of Dunnottar House, including the farming land - this includes Upper Criggie and East Carmount, which is precisely where both sides of the family ancestors are to be found on the census, farming up to 121 acres.
To be precise, the wedding was that of William Duthie and Mary Turriff (my great great grandparents) in 1855. The marriage cert states they were married at the 'House of Dunnottar'. At the time of their marriage, Mary's father Alexander Turriff was a Farmer of 121 acres at Upper Criggie. At the time of the marriage, William was recorded as a Farm Servant at Criggie. The 1861 census has them at Criggie, and William as a Ploughman. In 1871 they have popped away to Fetteresso where William is an Ag Lab. They then return to East Carmount where William is recorded in the 1881 census as Farmer of 110 acres. Upon his death 10 years later, his personal estate was £524. I presume this would have been a lot of pennies in them days??
The reason that has reared it's head again is because I finally laid hands on a photo of my great grandparents, and in conversation with family it was brought up that great granny had been brought up 'well heeled' rather than as just a country farmer's daughter. Of course this made me hark back to the wedding of her parents and gave me pause for thought that they were relatively well-to-do!
Lass x
Hello Lass
I don't know if this is your William Duthie or a relative, or not?
Stonehaven Journal, 15th December 1859
The Stonehaven Literary Society met for their AGM at the Dunnottar School-room and several of those present were James Scott, Esq., writer; Messrs Robert Duthie; and later in the same list a William Duthie.
What is interesting is the following:-
Stonehaven Journal, 24th June 1858
GRASS TO LET.
THE GRASS on the Lawn and in the Plantations
around the House of Dunnottar, is to be Let, for
Sheep pasture, for the season. Apply to James Scott,
Writer, Stonehaven.
21st June, 1858:
Apparently the House of Dunnottar with shooting over 4,000 acres had been offered for Let
Edinburgh Evening Courant, 14th May 1857
TO BE LET.
With Entry immediately.
THE MANSION HOUSE of DUNNOTTAR,
County of Kincardine, and SHOOTING over
the Estate, will be Let on Lease, for such term of
years as may be agreed upon. The House, which is
partially furnished, is very commodious, and the
Grounds are beautiful. There is a Coach-house and
Stables, and every Convenience suitable for a Family. ...
What I don't know is whether James Scott was already there in May 1857 and this was him trying to sublet the property, or if James Scott Esq., Writer, rented from this date, or had some other connection with the owner.
Register of Sasines
The Register of Sasines [property register], we used this Register along with the County Council Meeting Minutes, Valuation Books, for another property called Kenmure Castle, Kells, South-west Scotland, to study its demise from a great Castle House overlooking Loch Ken, to a ruined shell and see who was responsible.
The local authority were given an assurance that the new owner a scrap metal dealer (mid 20th Century) wouldn't demolish Kenmure Castle, but no preservation notice was served on the new owner, nor via the selling Estate Agent. The next reports were, that workmen had begun stripping lead on the roof, the Authorities let the lead stripping carry on, rather than try and issue a Preservation Notice to save the roof and building, for fear that they may become financially responsible for making good the damaged part of the roof.
Water got in the roof and through the floors and huge timbers finally rotted through and some old timber remains still lie on the ground floor, about 10 years ago.
Mark
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Margaret - daughter of William Ritchie and Margaret Hamilton Ritchie married Captain Francis Robert Henry Chapman on Monday 17 th February 1890 - Margaret of Dunnottar House Stonehaven.
Published - Wednesday 19 February 1890
Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal
County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Francis Robert Henry Chapman - Age: 21 - Birth Year: abt 1869
Event Date: 12 Feb 1890 - Parish: St Michael Bournemouth
County Southampton
Spouse's Name: Margaret Hamilton Ritchie - Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Parish: Saint Paul Wilton Place - Event Type: Allegation
Reference Number: MS10091/267
Sandra
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1901 census Bromley Kent.
RG13 Piece 681 Folio 119 Page 13
Francis R H Chapman 42 Born India.
Margaret W Chapman 35 Born Scotland.
Sheila H Chapman 10 Born India. (Poona, India - Sheila Hamilton Chapman)
Edith M H Chapman 4 Born Scotland. (Edith Margaret Hamilton Chapman)
James Middleton 25 Servant.
Constance Grangere 20 Servant.
Sandra
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Francis Robert Henry Chapman - 22 October 1858 - Baptised 26 November 1858 Sholapore, Bombay, India. Parnets - Ingram Francis Chapman - Mother Louisa.
Sandra
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Francis Robert Henry Chapman - 13 March 1942 - Probate 28 September 1942
Sandra
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Margaret Hamilton Ritchie/Chapman - 27 April 1945 - Portugal - Probate - 28 December 1945 Llandudno.
Sandra
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Published: Wednesday 12 December 1860 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal
County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
... Sale of Wood at Dunnottar. There will be Sold, by Public Roup, at Dunnottar House, by Stonehaven, on Saturday, 15th inst., Large Quantity of WOO D, Lots to suit rurcnasers, consisting Asn, Elm, Poplar, Plaiu, t.uae. Beech, Larch, and Spruce.- The Sale ........................
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Published: Thursday 29 March 1883 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Evening Express - County - Aberdeenshire, Scotland
FIRE AT DUNNOTTAR HOUSE. Yesterday afternoon, at four o'clock, the inhabitants of Stonehaven were alarmed by the ringing of the town's bell, announcing that fire had broken out at Dunnottar House, occupied by Mr William Ritchie, distiller, and situated .....................
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Published: Wednesday 21 August 1901 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal - County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
DUNNOTTAR CHURCH BAZAAR
... Lodge; Mr W. Ritchie, Dunnottar House; Captain Ritchie of Dunnottar; H. 0. Ritchie Netherley; and Mr Alexander Yule, London. The patronesses are—The Misses Baird of Urie; Mrs Chapman, Dunnottar House; Miss Hamilton. .....................................
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Published: Friday 02 November 1928 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal - County Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
DUNNOTTAR HOUSE AND GARDENS
... DUNNOTTAR HOUSE AND GARDENS. My Lady's Bath and Gallows Hill. (By J. D.) Dunnottar, as every reader of Scottish history knows, for upwards of four centuries formed part of the extensive domains of the Keiths, Great Marischals of Scotland. The last chapter ........................
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Sandra
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Published: Wednesday 03 June 1874 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal - County Aberdeenshire, Scotland
MISCELLANEOUS
... in the Small Debt concluding for £l2 damages, at the instance of Mary Smith, late cook at Dunnottar House here, against Margaret M'Callum, nurse at Dunnottar House, she having on several occasions stated to some of the other servants that Mary Smith was .....................
Published: Friday 12 September 1890 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal - County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
... trimmed with bells. ; t Mr D. Ritehie, Dunnottar House, had a costume of a i the time of George IL-blue satin coat, white brocaded vest, blue breeches, white hose, lace ruffles, and powered wig. Mr Ritchie, Dunnottar a House, represented a Nea'poltan fisherman .................
Published: Wednesday 25 July 1900 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal - County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
... party : Captain and Mrs Chapman, Dunnottar House ; Messrs H. O. Ritchie (president) and C. E. Ritchie, Dunnottar House ; Rev. Professor Paterson, Aberdeen; Rev. D. G. Barron, Dunnottar Church; Mr M'Donald, forester, Duunottar. &e. Mr Ritchie ................
Sandra
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Published: Thursday 08 June 1961 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Evening Express - County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
... plain to the owner (Mr Harry Ross, Stonehaven builder) that Dunnottar House must come down. The committee were told Mr A. Sturrock, county planning officer, that his view was that the house should be levelled to the ground, the materials removed and the ..............
Sandra
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Published: Tuesday 11 May 1948 Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
... DUNNOTTAR PLAN REJECTED STONEHAVEN Town Council will be told to-night that they must abandon the proposal to convert Dunnottar House into workingclass home's. The idea was to requisition the house, but the Secretary for Scotland informed the ...............
Sandra
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Published: Saturday 12 December 1953 Newspaper: Aberdeen Evening Express County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Blinded By Light
... the third. Kincardine Laird Dies Mr Henry Oliphant Ritchie, laird of Netherley Estate for over fifty-two years, died at his home. Netherley House, by Stonehaven, yesterday. He was eighty-six. A very good shot, Ritchie at one time made frequent trips to ...................
Sandra
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Published: Monday 31 January 1944 - Newspaper: Aberdeen Press and Journal - County: Aberdeenshire, Scotland .
Late Mr W. H. Ritchie, Dunnottar
... Late Mr W. H. Ritchie, Dunnottar Mr William Hamilton Ritchie, eldest son of the late Mr and Mrs William Ritchie, died t his residence, Dunnottar House, Stonehaven, yesterday. He had been ill only a few weeks.............
Sandra
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Another snippet.....Dunnottar House and the Glenury Distillery connections...
http://www.mcjazz.f2s.com/DistilleryGlenury.htm
esp. the last 2 paragraphs.
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Sandra, I really don't know what to say and can't thank you enough for your time and efforts. Bringing Mr H.O Ritchie's rifle back to life after so many years of storage has been quite an undertaking (including sending it to Austria to have the barrel restored while retaining it's original manufacturers marks. No easy task!). I realise this may not be to everyone's taste, and I have no wish to offend anyone who may be so, but bringing it back to the highlands this October for a red stag will be an incredibly emotional experience for me especially as now, thanks to you, I know so much of its previous owners history.
Thanks all so so much
William SG
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.........I only wish I could afford a bottle of Glenury Royal to bring along to!
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Oh what the heck, special occasion & all that ;)
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Quite an interesting family to follow.........Pleaaed to help throw some light on them.
Happy Hunting.............
Reqards
Sandra
Enjoy.........think this Glenury Royal 1984 might be the cheapest end..................
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Or one could really push the boat out....
https://www.whiskybase.com/whiskies/whisky/8102/glenury-royal-50-year-old
slangevar
Ian
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Agreed Sandra, a very interesting family.
Haha! That's quite an outstanding price Ian! If the highland outing wasn't a prenuptual trip for a couple of very dear stalking friends who would polish off the bottle as soon as I nodded off it may have been worth remortgaging the house.
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Hello Willsg, Sandra, Ian and all...I'm pleased to see that, after several years of dormancy, the subjects of Dunnottar House and the Ritchie family, have been revived.
Since my last contributions, I have married (in November 2010) the lady that I previously referred to as the great granddaughter of Capt. William Ritchie; and, therefore, the great niece of Henry Oliphant Ritchie...who's brother, Charles Edward Ritchie was my wife's grandfather. As her descendence was through the male line, she retained the Ritchie family name until her first marriage.
I developed an interest in researching my family history many years ago, and that has lead me into extending this to my wife's family.
I have compiled a very extensive computerised family tree/date base, with many photographs and notes relating to events in the lives of those recorded. Although I have a large number of photos of my family members, it appears that the Ritchie's tended to avoid being photographed, and I have virtually none - indeed, the one Ian provided, of a group of folk at the front of Dunnottar House (I feel that they are likely be the Ritchie family), is the only one I have....and that's perhaps debatable.
The notes that I record and attach to the individuals' entries, are, in many cases, quite simple in essence....but they provide clues as to the nature and interests of those people....I have saved the comments made by Willsg regarding the rifle that belonged to Henry Oliphant Ritchie, and attached them to his entry in my "tree"....I would love to have a photograph of the rifle, Willsg.... that would be a rather poignant link with....I believe he was known as "Harry". I used to do a lot of shooting and fishing - 12 bore rather than rifle; and there are very personal and emotional associations between the outdoors, the seasons of the year, the guns and respect for the wildlife involved.
During my research, I was in touch with the Archivist to the Royal Collection Trust in Windsor....I was in the process of arranging to buy copies of portraits of some of the recipients of the Order of Merit, that were painted by Charles Edward Ritchie (my wife's grandfather - I thought!). Although Charles was a noted artist, there was an Australian contemporary, with exactly the same name and producing his paintings during the same period of time. It transpired that the Tasmanian Charles Edward Ritchie was responsible for the Order of Merit portraits.
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Hello Genealpete. Firstly congratulations on your marriage! It's lovely to know, after so much digging through the past, that the family carries on into the future. Secondly, I would be absolutely delighted to send you photos of the rifle and all of its associated documents with 'Harry's name and address as entered into the J Rigby & Co ledger & day books. It may be of interest to you that it is one of their rarest models and Harry's one may be the only surviving 'take down' model. The previous action to his was made for His royal highness the king of Portugal and was delivered to Buckingham palace!
As my photos are of too high a resolution to post on this forum, would it be acceptable for me to give you my email address on this chat so you can contact me and I'll send them that way?
Kind regards
WillSG
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Hi Will,
Regarding your photos being too high resolution...A wee tip...If you click on the file and open with microsoft paint...then do not alter it but save as a jpeg onto your desktop, it should be seen as a jpeg with much less memory use...
Ian
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Thanks for your message Willsg....I'd love to have the photos in high resolution, and I've sent a Private Message to you with my email address.
Kind regards (geneal)Pete
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Hi again.....a wee bit more, for interest in your family....see this link...
https://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass=none&searchhistorykey=0&keywords=frank%20ritchie&county=kincardineshire%2C%20scotland
and
https://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass=none&searchhistorykey=0&keywords=ritchie&county=kincardineshire%2c%20scotland
Press cuttings that you can view for a small fee apparently...
As regards the purchase of Dunnottar House.....From the press cuttings again...
"Stonehaven journal. STONEHAVEN, MAY 23, 1901 Messrs Scott & Gardner, solicitors, have purchased for Mr W. H. Ritchie, Dunnottar House the estate of Dunnottar for the sum of £580,000."
And 20th.Feb.1890...
"MARRIAGE OF MISS RITCHIE OF DUNNOTTAR HOUSE
MARRIAGE OF MISS RITCHIE OF DUNNOTTAR HOUSE. At Paol’B Church, Knightabridge, Loudon, W.,on Monday afternoon, there was celebrated, with fail choral service, the marriage of Captain It. 11. Chapman, eldest son of Major General j Chapman of Weymouth, and....etc
Ian
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Thanks for the tip Ian, I'll give it a bash and see if I can post the pics of documents for those who may be interested. Thankfully I believe I've managed to reply to Genealpete via email.
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You have indeed WillSG....many thanks for the photos.
I'll reply to your direct email soon.
Kind regards Pete
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Henry Oliphant Ritchie - probate London 11 February 1954
William Hamilton Ritchie - probate Llandudno 2 May 1944
William Ritchie - probate 20 May 1909
Not exactly. Note that the word 'Probate' does not actually appear in any of these extracts from the Calendar of Probate!
As these Ritchies were domiciled in Scotland, their estates were dealt with through the Scottish Courts. There is no such thing as 'Probate' in Scots Law.
The corresponding legal procedure is termed Confirmation, which you will see is mentioned in all three listings.
If someone dies domiciled in Scotland owning property in England, the executry does not have to go through the full procedure of obtaining probate in the English or Welsh courts as well as Confirmation in Scotland. Instead, the Scottish Confirmation is 'Sealed' in England or Wales.
There is a reciprocal arrangement whereby Probate in an English or Welsh court is 'Sealed' in a Scottish court if someone domiciled in England dies in Scotland, and there were also similar arrangements with Ireland.
What this means is that the dates quoted in the (England and Wales) Calendar of Probate are those when the Confirmation was Sealed in England or Wales, not when it was actually granted by the Scottish courts that dealt with it, so if you want to find the original Confirmation it will be between the date of death and the date of sealing.
The other corollary of this is that if someone dies domiciled in Scotland but not owning property in England, there is no need for their Confirmation to be Sealed, and it will not be listed in the (England and Wales) Calendar of Probate. So for most deaths in Scotland you will not find anything in the (England and Wales) Calendar of Probate, even though some web sites imply that it is a list covering the whole of the United Kingdom.
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Thank you so much to all who have contributed on this thread for the interesting information on Dunnottar House and the Ritchie family in particular. My husband is the grandson of Eric Henry Watts Ritchie's second wife, Margaret. Eric Henry Watts Ritchie was the son of Henry Oliphant Ritchie and his wife Ruby Bessie Watts, who lived at Netherley House. Sadly Eric died in 1989, but my husband has many happy memories of spending time with 'Grandad' Eric as a youngster growing up in the Scottish Borders. It has been wonderful reading about all the various bits and pieces about the house and family. Thank you again!
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PS - we were especially fascinated by the updated history of Henry O's rifle!
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Apologies for third posting, but I am hoping to personal message some of the contributors to this thread. You can only do that after you have posted three times. Many thanks!
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Hello, ljeastmount ... I am very pleased to see your message(s) here, under the "Dunnottar House" subject heading.
I am related, through marriage, to the Ritchie family; my wife Violet is the daughter of Robin Ritchie, whose father was Charles Edward Ritchie, brother of Henry Oliphant Ritchie. I had already developed an avid interest in family research before meeting my wife and, following our marriage, I started to research her family. To date I have a quite extensive "data base" of the Ritchie family, including Henry Oliphant, his son Eric Henry Watts and daughter Aileen Ruby (very prominent in Shetland pony circles), and a few years ago I attempted to make contact with Eric Henry Ritchie (Contemporary Artist?)....I'm not sure if I have the right Eric Henry?
If you would like to correspond via personal messaging, I would be delighted to exchange contact details.
Kind regards Peter
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...... I should have added an acknowledgement; I'm sorry to hear that Eric died in 1989.
Kind regards Peter
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So great that this thread is uncovering more relatives and family history! It really is fascinating. A quick note to those who are interested (& hopefully not offended), Mr Henry Oliphant Ritchie's rifle returned to the highlhands on Corrielair estate only last week ,where I was honoured to take a 12 point royal stag with it. Living history