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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Westmorland => England => Westmorland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ss002d6252 on Saturday 20 September 08 18:30 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I've tracked down a Matthew Ellwood born dec 1839 to John Ellwood (born abt 1796) and Margaret Ellwood (born abt 1800).
These dates are approximate and I can't seem to go further back. The bit that's concerning me about the parents births is that none of the children were born until around 1830 onwards which seems a little late considering most people had children reasonably young although it does tie in with the 1841 census.
Does anyone have any further ideas ?
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Hi
I have asked the moderator to move your post to the Westmorland board
This is from the IGI at www.familysearch.org
JOHN ELLWOOD Spouse: MARGARET NUTT
Marriage: 19 OCT 1829 Crosby Ravensworth, Westmorland,
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In the 1851 census they have a daughter of 21 so that marriage sounds about right. Living in Maulds Meaburn
John 59 Ag lab pauper b Crosby Ravensworth
Margaret 53 "
Thomas 13
Matthew 10
Mary 7
Jane 21 kids all born Maulds Meaburn
Andrea
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1851 census for Maulds Meaburn Westmorland. All children shown as b Maulds Meaburn
John Ellwood 59 ag labourer pauper b Crosby Ravensworth
Margaret 58 b Crosby Ravensworth
Thomas 13
Matthew 10
Mary 7
Jane 21
I think age should be 53 as she would have been 51 when she had Mary if she was 58
HO107; Piece: 2440; Folio: 22; Page: 5
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Thanks - that marriage looks to be about the right time. Now i Need to track down the dates of birth and parents if possible.
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Interesting as I read it as 53! I also meant to point out that ages above 15 in the 1841 census were generally rounded down to the nearest 5 so the 1851 ones should be more accurate. There is another son John with them in 1841.
Andrea
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I'm wondering if she was born in 1800-
Event(s):
Birth:
15 FEB 1800
Christening:
23 FEB 1800 Kendal, Westmorland, England
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: SAMUEL NUTT Family
Mother: AGNES
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Interesting as I read it as 53!
Ancestry has her age as 52 and I'm inclined to agree with it. The enumerator uses a characteristic loop at the top of the 2 which is not present on the 3.
The IGI batch for Crosby Ravensworth P003201 has several ELLWOODs but no NUTT.
A Margaret NUTT was bap 1800 at Kendal 1800 (Batch C003114) but this seems some distance away :(
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1841 census states John was 45 and Margaret was 40 - it appears that it might be accurate compared to the D.O.B I have of abt 1796 and abt 1800.
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1841 census states John was 45 and Margaret was 40 - it appears that it might be accurate compared to the D.O.B I have of abt 1796 and abt 1800.
Ages of adults in the 1841 census were supposed to have been rounded down. A recorded age of 45 indicated the person was at least 45 but not yet 50, similarly 40 meant at least 40 but not yet 45.
The instructions to enumerators of the 1841 census are to be found here-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~somtcen/1841instructions.html
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Hi,
The witness at John Ellwood's & Margaret Nutt's wedding was Christopher Bowman if that is any help. John is described as a labourer for his children's baptisms.
There is a burial for a Margaret Ellwood of Meaburn at CR in 1854 aged 54 years.
Regards,
Gillian
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I am researching the Ellwood family, came across this today and registered with RootsChat to reply! John Ellwood & Margaret Ellwood (nee Nutt) are my g.g. grandparents. Their son Thomas, (my g.grandfather) was brother to the Matthew you mention. I too had Margaret Nutt's parents as probably Samuel Nutt & Agnes Nutt (nee Coupland) but haven't been able to go further back than John with any certainty. He was possibly the John Ellwood christened in Kendal on 10 April 1790 (Maragaret was born in 1800 in Kendal) and if so the line could be as follows:
Daniel Ellwood (b.1730 Kendal) m. Hannah Crewdson (b.1733 Kendal) in 1758: their son, also Daniel Ellwood (christened 10/6/1759) m. another Hannah (or Ann) and they were John Ellwood's parents.
Did you have any of this, and have you been abe to verify that this John is the right one? I'd also be interested to know what your connection is to these Ellwoods!
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Hi
My great grandmother was Margaret Ellwood (m. to George Suddick). Margaret was John Ellwoods grand daughter and Matthews daughter.
Matthew is shown on the 1841 census living with his parents John and Margaret.
The info I have suggests John Ellwood's parents were Michael Ellwood and Mary Atkinson however this is mainly from work done by others on ancestry.co.uk so I don't have documentary proof.
Thanks
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Thanks for this - another line to investigate. You're the first person I've found doing my research that I'm related to - though it's pretty distant! :)
Thanks again.
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Ive found a few distant relatives on the other lines but you are the first on this side.
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What were the names of Thomas' wife and children ?
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Hi All,
I don't think that your John Ellwood is the son of Michael Ellwood & Mary Atkinson. Their son John died 1808. Michael is the brother of William Ellwood my gggg grandfather. I have Michael's will and he doesn't mention a son John.
According to the 1851 census both John Ellwood and Margaret Nutt were born Crosby Ravensworth. There is a John son of William & Frances bap 16/9/1787 CR.
Why did you go for the Kendal baptism?
Regards,
Gillian
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Hi Gillian
Thanks for this - this seems to rule out Michael & Mary as my John's parents.
I don't have any great confidence that the Kendal John is the right one! But FamilySearch.org confirms Margaret (Nutt) was born in Kendal in Feb 1800, despite what the 1851 census shows so unless this is the wrong Margaret Nutt there could be a Kendal connection. Also I have a death certificate for John Ellwood who died in C Ravensworth (Eamont Bridge Workhouse) in 1863 at the stated age of 73 - this would put his birth in 1790 which is the year the Kendal John was born. Not conclusive I know, but possible at least! I had ruled out John son of William & Frances (Fanny) even though he was born in C R because that John married a Mary Eggleston in 1816. But on reflection Margaret could have been his second wife assuming Mary died before that marriage in 1829. I will have to explore this possibility....................!
Regards
Pat
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Hi Pat,
Thanks for your reply.
Do you have the 1861 census entry for John? What was his place of birth?
If John died 1863 CR, what is the connection to Eamonts Bridge, a different village. There were other Ellwoods at Eamont Bridge I believe. I'll dig out my notes. Who registered his death?
Regards,
Gillian
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Hi Gillian
John's place of birth is given again as Crosby Ravensworth in the 1861 census. He was living in Maulds Meaburn when the 1841 census was done. The death certificate I have shows that that John died in the Eamont Bridge Workhouse on 1 Dec 1863. William Burton registered the death: I confirmed from the internet that he was the 'Master' of the workhouse in 1863. I also established from the internet that this workhouse took in people from CR. I know I could be on completely the wrong track but I haven't been able to find the death of any other John Ellwood that fits even as well as this shaky possibility!
It would be great if you could shed any light on any of this without going to too much trouble. I'm trying to check out William & Frances (Fanny) as parents of my John, but that's only possible if that John's wife Mary Eggleston died before 1829 when he married Margaret Nutt. This is what I'm working on now.
Regards (and thanks for your interest)
Pat
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Hi Pat,
Thanks for the info from John's death cert & 1861 census.
I have looked through my Ellwood notes & I also have John Ellwood bap 1787 CR son of William & Frances married to Mary Eggleston 3/6/1816 CR. I don't have any census data. Do you have them in any census?
According to the CR PRs they appear to be living in Reagill and have a son William bap 22/4/1817 CR.
Also from my notes I have Ann bap 9/2/23 CR & Ruth bap 10/8/1827 CR daus of John & Mary of Maulds Meaburn.
And also Margaret dau John & Mary Labourer of Lofterns bap 13/3/1825 CR.
These possibly match up with the burials:
Mary Ellwood of MM bur 16/6/1828 CR age 31
Ann Ellwood of MM bur 2/7/1828 CR age 7
Mary Ellwood of MM bur 5/7/1828 CR age 5.
Could these all be the same family?
Lofterus Farm was were William & Frances were living 1790. Their dau Mary was bap 23/12/1790 & the CR PRs state that William & Frances were of Lofterus. Is this the same as Lofterns?
Any thoughts?
Regards,
Gillian
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Hi Gillian
No, I haven't been able to find any trace of John and Mary in any census, but that would make sense if John's first wife was the Mary Ellwood you have dying aged 31 in June 1828 - he could then have remarried (Margaret Nutt) in October 1829 and this would make him my gg grandfather not the Kendal John (which probably makes more sense anyway).
As there are exact dates for both events for Ann Ellwood, the Ann buried on 5/7/1828 may not be the same Ann baptised on 9/2/1823 as her age at death is given as 7 not 5/6, though I know things weren't that precise then so it's possible at least. Mary buried on 5/7/1828 at age 5 could have been another child of John & Mary, born between Ann & Margaret i.e. all 3 in quick succession! I wonder whether there were any more children between William and Ann - a 6-year gap in those days was probably quite rare.
I've seen reference to Lofterus but not Lofterns - I imagine Lofterns may just be a transcribing/typing error?
The full line-up I have for William & Frances's children from CR BMD 1570-1812 is:
Joseph Ellwood Baptised 22/5/1776 Buried 9/1/1780
Sarah Ellwood Baptised 16/6/1778 Buried 21/1/1780
Thomas Ellwood Baptised 15/10/1780
William Ellwood Baptised 12/1/1783
George Ellwood Baptised 17/3/1785
John Ellwood Baptised 16/9/1787
Mary Ellwood Baptised 23/12/1790
William & Frances are shown as "of Lankaber" when children Joseph through to George were born, and "of Lofterus" for John & Mary.
Anything new here for you?
Regards
Pat
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Hi Pat,
I have the same family data for William & Frances. Frances died 1831 CR aged 84. Cannot find William's death or where he came from! I would love to find out he came from Dufton!
I have found the family in the 1787 census. William is a husbandman, there are 4 male children and they live in MM. There is another Ellwood family living next door, possible relations??
I have some census details for Thomas, son William & Frances:
1841
Dryevers MM
Thomas 55 Farmer
Mary 35
William 55 (brother??)
Frances 8
Sarah 6
Margaret 4
Mary 2
1851
Roans MM
Thomas Farmer 70 acres 70 b MM
Mary 45 b Cumberland NK
Margaret 16 b MM
Sarah 14 bMM
Mary 12 b MM
Isabella 8 scholar b MM
Thmas Ellwood serv 21 unmarr Farm servant b Green (Scout Green??)
1861
Lanakaber MM
Thomas 80 Farmer 110 acres b CR
Mary 55 Farmer's wife b Cumwhittom CUM
Sarah 24 Dressmaker b MM
Mary 22 Farmer's dau b MM
It does look like John Ellwood could have married twice, however, I see no mention to him being a widow. It seems more likely to be the same John of MM and not Kendal.
The witnesses at his "first" wedding were:
William Ellwood, Mary Ellwood & Eliz Thompson.
John Ellwood & Mary Eggleston signed their names, Margaret Nutt signed with an X.
Am still going through my notes!!
Regards,
Gillian
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Hi Gillian
Thanks for the latest instalment! Were you aware that there was a William born in Dufton at the right time? The FamilySearch.org site shows that the William who married Frances was born "Abt 1755/1760". Doing a search for births reveals that apart from one born in Kendal in 1752, there was only one other William Ellwood born in Westmorland at that time. He's shown as christened in Dufton on 18 Jun 1754. His parents are given as William & Mary Ellwood, married in Dufton on 27 March 1749. That William is shown born in Dufton "Abt 1723", died Brampton and buried Long Marton 27 Feb1797. Mary (no surname given) is shown as born "Abt 1727", also in Dufton. It looks like these details were submitted to the site by someone living in Utah. It's a possibility at least - or have you already discounted this?
Worth mentioning Sarah Ellwood "of Langkaber" too - she was buried 29 Feb 1792 aged 75 (therefore born c. 1717). Who knows? - there's a chance this could be William's mother.
By the Ellwood family living next door to Wm/Frances in 1787 do you mean George & Sarah Elwood? I have a George Ellwood "of Kirkby Thore" marrying Sarah Martindale in CR on 18 Nov 1767 so maybe this could be them? (The extra 'L' in the name came and went a bit around this time didn't it?!). I daresay George was related to Wm somehow - all the Ellwoods in Westmorland are probably related if you go far enough back!
Yes, I think John from MM is probably the right one too - witnesses William & Mary would be his brother and sister.
Regards
Pat
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Hi again Gillian
Scrub the info in my previous posting re William & Mary (Mary Hall, in fact)) - their son William married Barbara Jackson on 29 Nov 1783 so they aren't our William's parents.
Pat
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Hi Pat;
You beat me to it!! I have William married to Barbara Jackson also.
The Ellwood family next to William and Frances in MM 1787 is:
George Head husbandman
Sarah,
This could be the Sarah who died 1792 aged 75?
Regards,
Gillian
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Hi Gillian
Yes, could be. If that's the former Sarah Martindale she would have been 50 when she married George in 1767.
Regards
Pat
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Hi,
I have some 1811 Ellwood data of MM:
Maulds Meaburn in the parish of CR has three Ellwood entries for 1811:
John Ellwood 1male 1 female husbandry
Wm Ellwood 4 males 2 females husbandry
Wm Ellwood 3males 2 females husbandry
The first two entries are adjacent & the third entry is four entries later.
John could be of Trainlands and his wife Mary Ruddock marr 1806 CR.
The two Williams could be:
William husband of Frances
plus another William Ellwood family.
Has anyone worked out who the three Ellwood families are?
Regards,
Gillian
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Hello, I have just joined Rootsweb and came across your chat. My family are the Stephensons from Dufton, and we have a fairly good tree back to 1744. I have a marriage of my great great grandfather, Benjamin, to Mary Ellwood of Maulds Meaburn, Mary born 1842. I have a photo taken about 1910 which shows Mary and Benjamin, along with their son, George and his wife and their 2 boys (one of them my grandfather). Does this link in with your research? It would be interesting to know how Mary fits into the family.
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Hi Caravan1
The Mary Ellwood who married Benjamin Stephenson on 26/11/1862 could well be Mary Ellwood shown aged 7 in the 1851 census for Maulds Meaburn. This makes her the sister of Thomas Ellwood (b. 1836) who is my great grandfather. This would mean Thomas and Mary's parents are our common GGG Grandparents with the direct line details as follows (the double 'L' in Ellwood sets off as a single 'L'):
William Elwood b. c1755 married Frances (Fanny) Rebanks in Crosby Ravensworth (CR) on 14/6/1775.
Their son John Elwood (chr. 16/9/1787) married his 2nd wife Margaret Nutt in CR on 19/10/1829 (his 2nd wife Mary Eggleston d.1827). John & Margaret had 6 children that I'm aware of:
Jane b. 1830
John b. 1834 d. 1861 (consumption)
THOMAS chr. 20/12/1836
Matthew b. 1839
MARY b. 1843 (?)
Margaret b. 1849
Hope this helps.
Are you able to attach the photo you have? I'd love to see my (possible) Great Great Aunt Mary! I don't have any photos going back that far on the Ellwood side.
Regards
Pat
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Hi Pat,
Very interesting. I have just spent the weekend in Dufton, and found the place where my ancestors lived, as I have 3 generations of lead miners in the family before Benjamin, who was my great great grandfather. We also went to Appleby, where Benjamin and Mary lived. Benjamin was a labourer in a market garden, now linked to the Stephensons who still live in Appleby. There is still a Stephenson (Alec) on the High St in Appleby - he is a greengrocer. His cousin, Martin, also lives in Appleby, and was until recently the owner of the Wild Rose Caravan Park.
For your info, Benjamin (b24.10.1841, d Feb 1923) and Mary had 6 children - - John, b 1866 (moved to Canada and the family there have been in touch with us)
- Mary, b1878, married Joe Green in 1912 - I knew their son, Joe, who only died a couple of years ago)
- Jane, b1884
- George William, b1876 in Appleby, my great grandather and a tailor on High Wiend in Appleby.
- Emily, b1881, married Tom Hoggarty in 1922, d 1958 in Preston, I remember her as Great Aunt Emily - vivid memories of her house.
- Elizabeth, b1869, married a Laing.
No prob in sending you a copy of the photo - I have tried cutting and pasting it here, or attaching the file, but this system doesnt seem to let me. Do you know how we do that?The picture was taken in about 1912, and has Benjamin and Mary (my great great grandparents), Their son George William and his wife Harriet Irene (my great grandparents), and Benjamin (my grandfather) and his brother Leonard, who died in 1917.
If you let me know how to send it, I will!
Regards,
Allan
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Hi Allan, thanks for all the info - I've got lots of lead miners in my family too, in the Collings of Wearside: Hannah Colling married Thomas Ellwood (your Mary's brother). A gruesome occupation.
I have never tried to send a photo via this site but assumed it would be easy because there appears to be a link to do it, though that doesn't seem to actually lead anywhere. I've found the following link, however, which (allegedly!) explains how to do it:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html
Hope you can follow it and it works, though it seems to take a lot of explaining!
Regards
Pat
Pat
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Hi All,
I have hust found an interesting article about William Wilson who married Mary Ellwood in 1864. Mary was the daughter of John Ellwood & Margaret Nutt.
This is the link:
http://www.otlhs.ukme.com/WilliamWilson.html
Enjoy,
Gillian
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Hi All,
I have just found an interesting article about William Wilson who married Mary Ellwood in 1864. Mary was the daughter of John Ellwood & Margaret Nutt.
This is the link:
http://www.otlhs.ukme.com/WilliamWilson.html
Enjoy,
Gillian
Hello
I found this thread in a Google search today and joined RootsChat immediately. I am a descendant of William Wilson mentioned in the article. His son, Thomas was my great-grandfather ... he emigrated to South Africa in the late 1800s.
My records show that Mary Ellwood was the daughter of Thomas Ellwood of CR. Her husband William Wilson sculpted a gravestone for Thomas (mentioned in the article).
I'm keen to find cousins who could fill me in on more info about the Ellwoods (or Wilsons).
Kind regards
Cherie Wright
Cape Town, South Africa
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Hi Cherie,
Welcome to Rootschat!
You say that Mary was the daughter of Thomas. Did you mean John? Do you have any information about Mary Ellwood's Ellwood family?
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Gillian ... thanks for quick response!
According to my records, Mary Ellwood was the daughter of Thomas Ellwood and Mary Ellwood (snr. born about 1805 in Cumwhitton as per 1861 census, Cumberland). Thomas was a farmer according to 1841, 1851, 1861 censuses.
Perhaps, as you pointed out in the discussion above, Mary Snr's father was John???
If you read the article posted on the Orton/Tebay History Society website, you'll see a pic of Mary Ellwood (jnr) and her daughter, Mary Wilson in front of the wine and spirit retailer that they ran. Right underneath that photo is info that I helped complete as the initial posting had some inaccuracies. Info about Thomas Wilson and family is about our South African branch of the Wilson family.
I don't have much more info about the Ellwoods. I know that William and Mary Wilson lived with them for a while when first married and William carved Thomas Ellwood's gravestone.
Of interest to me is the 1841 census (family recorded as resident Maulds Meaburn):
Thomas (35) farmer
Mary snr (35)
William (55) ?????
Frances (8)
Sarah (6)
Margaret (4)
Mary (2)
??? I wondered who the William was ... originally thought it might be a father.
Another fact that I do know is that (as noted by a cousin who visited CR and Orton a few years ago), the Ellwood daughters all died comparatively young ...
I found this website quite helpful when sourcing info about Westmorland: http://www.northofthesands.org.uk/westmoreland/surname/329/ellwood
Please let me know if you think I've made a mistake in my recording of the info.
Thanks again
Cherie
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Hi Cherie,
Yes sorry Thomas Ellwood!!
His gravestone in CR cemetry:
In affectionate remembrance of Thomas Ellwood of Roans who died 4 Ap. 1867 aged 86 years. also of Mary his wife who died on the 3rd July 1883 aged 78 years. also the children of the above, Frances, died 6 July 1853 aged 20, Margaret died 15 March 1859, aged 25 yrs;, Sarah died 18 July 1871 aged 35 years. , Jane died 24 July 1849 aged 17 wks.
According to the 1851 census, living Roans and was born in Maulds Meaburn.
The best bet for Thomas is the son of William & Frances of MM.
William & Frances's children from CR BMD 1570-1812 is:
Joseph Ellwood Baptised 22/5/1776 Buried 9/1/1780
Sarah Ellwood Baptised 16/6/1778 Buried 21/1/1780
Thomas Ellwood Baptised 15/10/1780
William Ellwood Baptised 12/1/1783
George Ellwood Baptised 17/3/1785
John Ellwood Baptised 16/9/1787
Mary Ellwood Baptised 23/12/1790
From the 1787 census of MM which fits with 4 male children:
Wm ELWOOD
Head
Husbandman
M
Fanny ELWOOD
Wife
F
[unnamed] ELWOOD
Child
M
[unnamed] ELWOOD
Child
M
[unnamed] ELWOOD
Child
M
[unnamed] ELWOOD
Child
M
Wm WARD
Servant
M
Mary WARD
[Servant]
F
In the 1841 census the mysterious William could be Thomas' brother. Thomas is aged 55 like William. The ages were not that accurate then often rounded.
Best regards,
Gillian