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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: kassejayne on Sunday 21 September 08 15:37 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have been researching my roberts side of the family in bethesda north wales and have come a bit unstuck
I found john roberts slate quarryman born 1864 with his wife elizabeth and three sons robert, thomas and henry
the problem I have is that when I then tried for the 1881 family search census there is only one john roberts born in bethesda...with a mother ann and a stepfather thomas owen but the date is not right.
there are other john roberts born ...within the area of Llanllechid which I believe bethesda is a hamlet off. so I am not sure which way to go as I don't have any parent names to go off.
the family left bethesda in approx 1892 and moved to st helens merseyside...and according to the 1891 census none of them spoke english
If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it.
thank you
kassejayne
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If you start with the census that you do have in FULL then we can try searching for you.
Pauline
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Hi
Welcome to rootschat. As Pauline said it is helpful if you can give a census reference then we are sure we have the right family before doing too much research. I am assuming they are at RG12 4669 F33 p 27 in 1891. In that case it is interesting that they are living next door to a Robert Roberts age 60 - possible relative?? Worth keeping in mind anyway.
Andrea
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This might be a difficult one as there are two possible John Roberts, both with father Robert, in 1871. The one I favour is RG10 5733 F29 p19 and that is because father Robert is a quarryman - as is the one next door in 1891and the age fits better too.
Robert Roberts 49
Margaret 44
John 7 all b Llanllechid
It looks as if Margaret dies and Robert remarries before 1891.
When searching the 1881 you need to widen the birth dates a bit and you get several Johns born Bethesda and area.
You really need to get a birth certificate for one of their children so that you know Elizabeth's maiden name and then a marriage certificate to confirm John's father's name. A bit of an outlay but essential with such a common name in Wales.
Andrea
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Hello and welcome to rootschat,
I have tried to back track through the censuses looking for Elizabeth. 1891 and 1901 she gives same place of birth and both are 1863 but then trying 1881 and further back is not so reliable.
I would say that a birth certificate for one of the children is essential for Elizabeth's surname and then try to find a marriage which would give you both their fathers' names and maybe even addresses.
best wishes
heywood
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apologies for repeated info. ::)
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At least we are both agreed on a way forward - or should it be back! In 1901 their youngest child Elizabeth is age 8 months. As the census was taken late March that makes her probable birth date around July 1900. Looking for a birth registration then might work. I am not sure which district St Helen's comes under but it might be worth writing direct to the local office and asking for a certificate at about that time with parents John and Elizabeth.
Andrea
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I think it's Prescot.
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Hi
thanks to you all...I never expected to receive any replies let alone so many and so quickly so thanks for your time and interest
I will definately go and get a certifcate for one of the children as you say it is the only way to backtrack
I have only been doing family research for a short time and it has been wonderful for bringing family together as everyone knows a little bit of something even if it is only a rumour that sometimes turns out to be right and interesting
I am going to bethesda today....just got to see it....
thanks
kassejayne
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hi
I've got the certificate for William Roberts born 7th March 1893 in St Helens his mothers maiden name was Elizabeth Owens..which I hoped would narrow things down when searching for his parents marriage certificate but up to now no joy
I've found a couple young women with the same name and same age on the Isle of Anglesey Elizabeth came from Llanerchymedd...and the one girl from there is a lodger is there a way of finding her parents?
you mentioned census numbers? not sure what I am looking for
kassejayne
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Hi again,
census numbers are the reference number - e.g. RG13; Piece: 3525; Folio: 114; Page: 9 - that's the reference for the 1901 census with the family.
This looks as though it could be a possible marriage:
Free BMD site - March 1883 Carnarvon. I always think it is difficult with Welsh research with the significance of certain surnames in certain areas. That marriage was the only one that comes up.
1881 RG11; Piece: 5591; Folio: 43; Page: 14
has an Elizabeth b 1863 Llanerchymedd - father Thomas - may be her - if that marriage was her, then you would find her father's name.
As their second son was Thomas - that's a bit of support perhaps. I can't see the one who is a lodger.
Just realised I have done this using Owen and not Owens ???
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Hi
thanks for that...your right about the names.....robert, owens, williams and jones there are so many and they tend to have the same forenames handed down..it makes it so complicated.
it would help if I could pronounce the welsh words so I could phone the local history societies for bethesda/anglesy information ..I went into a library in wales and asked how I pronounced a location name..the lady told me and smiled...I think she knew by the look on my face that there was no way i could get my tongue round it...and she was right..I couldn't
kassejayne
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Hi
I have been given a birth certificate for John Roberts who was born in Bethesda in 1863, his fathers name was Robert Roberts and his mothers name was Ann Parry.
I have tried the family search and other search records but cannot come up with anyone with those names...can you help
cheers
kassejayne
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The 1871 census is showing ...
Living at 32 Twr, llanllechid
Robert Roberts, 37, labourer, b. Carnarvon? Conway
Ann Roberts, 31, b. Llandudno
Hannah Roberts 14, scholar, b. Holyhead, Anglesey
John Roberts, 7, b. Llanllechid
Ann Roberts 5, b. Llanllechid
May Roberts 2, b. Llanllechid
:(Christmas is coming groan, bah humbug
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Hi Thanks for that information
I had found a record on the family search that showed a John Roberts with his mother Ann who had remarried a man named Thomas Owen aged 70 she was only 42 and it had some of the children listed on your research....the only one missing being Hannah who I assume had left by the 1881 census..
As I had no name for Johns birth father I couldn't be sure if I had the right family at all, but I think your information confirms it.
many thanks for taking the time to look for me I really appreciate it
kassejayne
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Hi Kassejane and welcome to Rootschat
I have only just logged on, and found that the good people on this list seem to have found your family already. If you need any more info. on Bethesda please let me know, as I spent my early years there!
Sandgrounder
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Hi thanks for that
I visited Bethesda and the slate quarry museum near snowdonia not too long ago...they have some houses there that shows the living conditions that the residents of around 1890 were living in, and it was pretty grim.
I have read of the troubles with the strikes and the poverty that that brought in the later 1890's but my family had moved by then (1892)and I wonder what would have made a family which spoke no English uproot and move what would have seemed so far away.
I know work would have been a big factor but was there nothing nearer back then.
I wish I could say that the work and living conditions in St Helens were they settled were better but at that time I don't think they were.
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Hello again
Liverpool was the place to be for work in those days so many of the residents would have moved there. There were probably pockets of Welsh speakers all over the city.
From Liverpool they would have found work in the St. Helens area (not too far away)
As you say I'm sure it was just as grim in St. Helens as in Bethesda but they had to follow the work.
Sandgrounder
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your right about pockets of welsh speakers in Liverpool and St Helens...were there was an area called Welsh Row...the little welsh chapel is still here but now there is no one attending.
Back then St Helens was an industrial town with chemical, brick and glass works and the like....how anyone survived past the age of forty is a miracle due to the polution and it was once known as the vilest town in Lancashire....not the best place to leave the beautiful scenery of Bethesda for, but I suppose they had to go were the work was.
kassejayne
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Did anyone get any further with this? I'm trying to trace family called Roberts who moved from Bethesda to St Helens ... These could well be them, so grateful for any information!!
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Hi Gjmmcdonald
I am from a St Helens Roberts family. Who is it you are looking for?
I don't have ancestry but I may have someone in my tree that is connected to you.
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Thanks for the reply ...
The Roberts family I am referring to moved from Bethesda to St Helens - it's just part of my general family history compilation I need info for ...
The family includes/s Rita (my mum), Horace, Richard, Edith Renee, Doris, Anne, Eric, John, Elizabeth, William as children - their mother, Mary Elizabeth (nee Lancaster) her husband William Roberts (d 1967) - his siblings Robert and Elizabeth - their father John Roberts (not sure of mother) ... And HIS father, Robert, who married an Ann Parry (seems to be the Bethesda connection ... I think they also had children Anne and Catherine.
I know one of the Bethesda connection worked in the slate quarry (but I also know that's not a big help!!) ...
Do any of these ring any bells? Any help gratefully received!!
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I know your mum .......her sister, Elizabeth Roberts was my grandmother, her daughter Eunice was my mother.
John Roberts wife was Elizabeth Owens from Llanerchymedd, Anglesey, Wales. I was never able to get much further with that side of the family. I have heard that John was a preacher of some sort but have never been able to verify it
Karen
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Wow!! That makes you some sort of cousin of mine!? So, hello!!
Let me find out what I can and I'll let you know!
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i think you are cousin to my mum....If I remember right...Rita and my mum are around the same age.
Do you know where John and Elizabeth are buried. I'm guessing Parr St Peters.
I did go a couple of years ago, but the old part of the cemetery is so overgrown that it was impossible to find anything.
I know Robert Ryder is buried there...don't think he has a headstone, which is a surprise seeing as he was a successful busines man. I'm guessing his father Richard Ryder is buried there as well. he came from Cork.
karen
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hi,
I don't know if this site could be of help, there are quite a lot of John Roberts listed.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Llandegai/Llandegai51S-R.html
Regards
lynne