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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kerryb on Sunday 21 September 08 22:30 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have a Phoebe Skinner who according to the information I have was born 1795 in Rye. She became the second wife of George Pilbeam in December quarter of 1843 in Rye.
I cannot for the life of me find Phoebe on the 1841 census and I would appreciate a set of fresh eyes searching please. I presume she must be in Rye if she married from there in 1843 but who knows.
If anyone can find her I would be very grateful.
George died in 1857 at their farm in Ticehurst and I think I have found her death in 1858 back in Rye so despite not being able to find her baptism either I think she must have had family in Rye.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
Could this be Phoebe?
1841 HO107/1106/5 folio15 page 23
Young Land, Peasmarsh, Rye, Sussex
Henry Sims 30 M.S. N
Phebe Skinner 40 F. S. Y
Hannah Cornwell 20 F. S. Y
Barbara
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Barbara's looks much better than my suggestion but Family Search has a Phoebe Skinner born or baptised 1794 Tonbridge Kent - parents Thomas and Ann.
Then I wondered was she a spinster on marriage- do you have the marriage certificate with father's name?
heywood
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Just a point, noticed that in 1851 census her name is Pheobe (the name is usually spelled as you put it with the o before the e) - maybe why you didn't find the 1841?
With age rounded down 5 years could be right :-\
Marriage cert would help, as Heywood says
Barbara :)
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Thanks Barbara
Totally missed that one, but I bet that is her.
I haven't ordered the marriage certificate yet, she was the second marriage and not a direct relative but will add it to the list.
I had a flash of inspiration just as I was turning off the computer last night. She was George's second marriage so was it hers as well.
Yes she was Phoebe Watson and she married John Skinner in Rye 1827! Also found 2 possible boys a Thomas and a George Hadden Skinner baptised 1828 and 1830.
Kerry
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Don't feel quite so silly now just looked on Ancestry who have her transcribed as Philis Skinne ::) ::)
Kerry
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I've ordered both her marriage certificate to George and her death certificate because that might show a relative on it.
Due to be sent on Friday - gosh with WDYTYA currently on that's quick :o :o :o
Kerry
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Don't feel quite so silly now just looked on Ancestry who have her transcribed as Philis Skinne ::) ::)
I hope you've amended it! I was using a different site :D
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Sometimes I don't know why I use it ::) ::)
If I'm on the right trail I'm finding all sorts of clues to her family. One of her children was baptised as George Hadden Skinner. I've found some baptisms around the 1800 and earlier mark baptised as Haddon Watson. I am wondering if that's her siblings and now I have found a will for a possible mother.
I'm adding Rye to my list of PRs to look at when I visit the Lewes Record Office in a couple of weeks ;D ;D
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
Have found a Pheobe Skinner living at Young Land Peasmarch Rye in the 1841 only her name is spelt Phebe Skinner age 40 Female Servant. said she was born in 1801. Hope this helps.
Polgara
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Hi Polgara,
Yes that's the one we found earlier, nice to have confirmation, Kerry's sure now that it's the right one
Kind regards, Barbara :)
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Hi Polgara
Yes that appears to be the right Phoebe.
I can't wait to see her marriage certificate which hopefully will have her father's name. Either there is no connection with this widow who has made a will or if there is she is not mentioned in her will at all. This could be a blind alley or very intriguing ::)
Kerry
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Blind alleys ::)
Been down plenty ;D
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http://www.sussex-opc.org/index.htm
have you tried this site
sylvia
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Hi Sylvia
One of my first ports of call, but sadly no OPC for Rye at the moment.
Kerry :)
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well- what a busy thread!! Good hunting ;)
heywood
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Thanks Heywood, my morning at the Lewes Record Offices is fast becoming a whole day ;D
Kerry
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george hadden skinner
baptised 13 oct 1830 rye sussex
father john skinner
mother phoebe
sylvia
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Hi Sylvia
I found that one this morning and a Thomas Skinner baptised 1828 to John and Phoebe and that is hence why I think there is a connection with the John Hadden Watson who could possible be Phoebe's father. Hadden must be a family name somewhere but I can't find a marriage between a Watson and Hadden and the two marriages I found for John Hadden Watson were to a Brown and a Luxford.
There are a number of Watson baptisms with the name Hadden in them to a John and Margaret around the right time frame.
Kerry
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those Hadden Watsons on IGI would be the time frame of siblings to Phoebe, I think ???
There is a Rye marriage - John Watson to Margaret Hemmings 1790 which doesn't help but fits with the parents. Then a birth for a John- parents Nicholas and Mary (Appleton) - frustrating ::)
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Arr Heywood I couldn't find that marriage to Margaret.
I found two for a John to a Mary in 1791 and widr to Elizabeth in 1797. I then went onto the Family Search pilot site and found a number of baptisms (annoyingly not a Phoebe in sight ::) ) and it looks like there must be two Johns because the children are being born and baptised to Margaret concurrently with Mary and then Elizabeth.
Annoyingly again both seem to have the name Hadden in the family. The Appleton could be a link to Mary Brown who married John in 1791, one of the witnesses was Mary Appleton. ::) ::)
Unless of course John had 3 wives all at the same time ;D ;D ::) ::)
This is intriguing.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
just browsing through IGI Haddens and found:
John Hadden 1762 Rye - parents Nicholas Watson and Mary - this one is 2 yrs before the one listed as John Watson both church records ???
James Haddon 1796 - parents John Haddon and Mary Watson (wonder if this is John Haddon Watson really)
two marriages for Nicholas Watson -1748 Mercy Triggey and 1755 Mary Appleton
1790 John Watson marries Margaret Hemmings (Hadden children from this marriage)
1791 John Hadden Watson marries Mary Brown
1797 John Hadden Watson marries to Elizabeth Luxford (as you have said)
1745 Mary Hadden marries Thomas Appleton
1755 Mary Appleton marries Nicholas Watson - wonder if these two ladies are the same person
None of this finds Phoebe as we have said but perhaps the Hadden Watsons began with Mary Hadden/Appleton/Watson. I just enjoyed the last half hour or so tracking these down - even though it is to no avail!
best wishes
heywood
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Thanks Heywood :D
and it is never to no avail, it could well come in useful. There seems to be stacks of Watsons and Haddens in Rye so sorting them all out could be quite a job.
Kerry
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so if Pheobe Watson was married first to John Skinner did she have children i.e are there any skinner children amix with the pilbeams?
are the Pilbeams related to A&F Pilbeam funeral directors and also builders over at Southwick they have been going sometime
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Hi Toni
First question, yes so far I have found a Thomas baptised 1828 and a George Hadden baptised 1830. That is all so far but Rye records not on IGI. That was what gave me the link with all the Hadden Watsons. I've possibly found Thomas as a servant on the 1841 census in High Street, Rye and possibly George at Brede workhouse but I've not managed to find them in any other censusi yet.
Second question, quite possibly as there are Pilbeams all over Sussex and I know some at Brighton are connected to the Burwash Pilbeams so you never know ;D We have traced them back to Ticehurst in the late 1500s and as there are a stash at that point they have got to have been around for a long time before that. ::)
Kerry
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actually it was Patchings building thathas been going for quite a long time (1880's i think) although they are now defunct (last year) Pilbeams funeral directors have been going longer than the buuilding side which started in 1955
now wasn't that a it of useless info. ! ;D
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do you have Phylis Funnel married to William Pilbam?
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Hi Toni
Yes they were my great great grandparents. http://www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk/html/william_pilbeam.html
Kerry
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they appear in my tree (spooky) ;D
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Oooh how! :o :o
Are we related???
Kerry ;D ;D
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no, we are not related only through many marriages i shall PM you
i think i have mapped the whole of sussex when i was 'name collecting' ::) i don't do that now i hasten to add
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And there was me thinking I was the only person related to every family in Sussex ::) ::) ;D ;D
Kerry
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kerry you still might be ;D ;D ;D cos im in sussex ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well no doubt we link up somewhere as well then muddypuddy. Got any Pilbeams or Harmers??
Kerry ;D ;D
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This morning I received Phoebe's marriage and death certificates from GRO (amazingly quickly, I only ordered them on Monday :o ) but they are as follows:
Marriage to George Pilbeam at Peasmarsh 1843, both widow and widower and Phoebe's father is John Hadden Watson, Grocer ;D ;D ;D
I've got the correct death certificate dated 1858 again at Peasmarsh, she is widow of George Pilbeam, she is 60 so born 1798.
James Catt present at the birth, but not sure who he was.
Kerry
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there are plenty of James Catts around at that time
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That's the trouble Toni - plenty is too many ::) ;D
I only want one
Kerry
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One good possible is Mary Appleton Watson who could be a sister of Phoebe married a James Catt in 1832 in Iden. ;D
Kerry
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yes that is a good posibility but what would he be doing there when she died? what did she die of?
i wondered if there were any James Catts doctors around, i had a quick look
but didnt positively identify any
i kept finding the one married married to MS Harmer possibly Harriett
any relation
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Probably one of the Salehurst Harmers.
Phoebe died of Apoplexy and James Catt might have been her brother in law. I will have to check when Mary died.
Kerry
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FREEBMD
MARRIAGE MAR 1841
SARAH BRADFORD HAILSHAM 7 397
JAMES CATT " "
JOHN KEMP " "
SARAH SKINNER " "
SYLVIA
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Hello Kerry, I came across this old thread and couldn't help responding. There is an old writing box for sale on eBay, inscribed to a P Skinner on her 19 th Birthday, 1860. I couldn't resist googling to find out what happened to her, and this thread came up. Hope it's of interest..
Henry
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Here is the box -
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Victorian-Wooden-Writing-Slope-Inscribed-1860-With-Key-/252862631385?nav=SEARCH