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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: polarbearnoodles on Thursday 25 September 08 16:47 BST (UK)
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I think I remember my Grandmother (Helen Johnston Cuthill) telling me that she went to school in Wilkie's Lane which is off the Blackness Road in Dundee.
She was born in 1917 so I guess went to school there between 1921 to 1930.
I can find no mention of this school anywhere (but my own head!)
Any help gratefully appreciated.
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Hi polarbearnoodles ,
Its St Joseph's Primary school!! I went to the very same school, Roman Catholic primary, still exists too and still has pupils at the same school building. At the bottom of Wilkies Lane after the boys from the above primary school reached about 8/9 years of age the went down to the boys only St Joseph's on Blackness Road.
Betty
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Hi again polarbearnoodles,
I should say St Joseph's primary was actually in Bellfield Street and the back entry was in Wilkies Lane, most children entered the school via Wilkies lane but that was actually the back of the school. There is a good picture of the school on the website address below, scroll down and its the second last picture, I bit clearer than the one I posted.
If you check out this website there is a better picture of the school which I should say
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/towns/moretpix399.html
Betty
p.s. My mum and dad were at that school in 1919 when the were 5 years old.
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Another picture of St Josephs School thanks to Rayfo :-*
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Thanks so much - you guys are amazing!
It's such a thrill when you find a missing link :o)
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I meant to post a smiley smiley but somehow I was given a shocked one!
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Hi polarbearnoodles,
If you need any more help just give me a shout, I take it you have your grandmothers birth certificate, that would give you her father and mother names too. It should also say where she was born, would have been at home in those days so you will have her address the family were living at as well, maybe the house will still be standing, who knows.
I noticed you grandmother married in 1930 and her husband was Alexander McLean and they married in the MAINS AND STRATHMARTINE /ANGUS area.
Good idea to get the marriage certificate as well as this will give you the parents names of Alexander as well.
Good luck with your research!!
Betty ;)
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Ahh, thanks! It's addictive isn't it? My boyfriend likens it to one of those 'sticker books' where you're not happy until you've collected them all!
I've managed to get quite far back - into about 1780 (5 x Great) but I've decided to stop searching backwards for a while and try to find out more about the people I've already found.
Do you know if the school has enrolment books or similar where I might find records of my Grandmother?
For interest, I've attached a photograph of her below when she was probably of school age. Goodness knows where the money for ballet lessons came from! (Hope attachment works).
Have you been successful in finding your ancestors?
Pbn x
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Oh Pbn,
Wish I could get that far back with my family but there again my grandmother came from Belfast Ireland, however on my fathers side it was ok as they came from Dundee, further back maybe Ireland I haven't got there yet.
No the attchment with the picture hasn't worked but never mind, keep trying you will get the hang of it.
I am not sure about the school keeping enrolment books/records or anything like that but you could contact them and see.
I too have just one picture of my mum when she was young, nothing of my father or my grandparents though.
Betty
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Hi again Pbn,
I just managed to open the photograph of your grandmother, lovely picture, you are so lucky to have it.
Betty
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Ahh! Thanks again.
Good luck with tracing your Irish roots!
Pbn x
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Hello polarbearnoodles
Have you any links with the Cuthills of Inverkeillor who are part of my family? They also ended up moving to Dundee after living in Arbroath.
breaky
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Hello Breaky,
Yes, I do have some information about the Cuthills of Inverkeilor! I began my research quite recently but I think I've found an amazing amount of information so far. And, just last night, I managed to contact a long-lost Cuthill and I think he has a mine of information which he is happy to share with me!
Where do you fit into the Cuthills of Inverkeilor?
I am descended from a whole line of Robert Cuthill's. One of these Robert's was married to Christina Gray and his son was William Cuthill who was born in 1848 and married Christina Japp. Do these names ring any bells?
I look forward to hearing from you.
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Hello Polarbearnoodles,
I link in from James Cuthill, born 1841, son of Alexander Cuthill born 1802, who, I think, is Robert's brother. Your other surnames are familiar, too.
It's possible we are both in contact, as well, with the "long-lost Cuthill" you mention, who is the source of much of my information - I'll go check and get back to you.
It's good to hear from you.
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Hi - we're distantly related but I can't figure out the link! I have Alexander and his son James in my tree but I can't trace them through to my home person without getting completely lost! (this is on ancestry.com which I can access from work).
On my laptop at home I use Family Tree Maker (from the Who Do You Think You Are series) and it has a handy feature which tells you the relationship between two people but ancestry.com doesn't appear to have this feature (so frustrating!).
Alexander does have a brother called Robert but I don't think he is the same Robert as mine. My Robert was born in 1808 and died in 1881 and according to his death cert, his parents were Robert Cuthill and Helen Jameson whereas I think your Robert was born in 1808 and died in 1881 and his and Alexander's parents were David Cuthill and Betty Jamieson. I think I've seen a few published trees on ancestry.com which appear to mix these two Roberts up.
It's so easy to go off on the wrong track though so I'm happy to be corrected!
My long-lost Cuthill is a Robert Cuthill from Swansea who is closely related to me being my father's cousin. I've seen mention of a Hugh Cuthill on the internet too.
I'll keep trying to work out the link between us and let you know when I do!
Great to hear from you too - I find all this fascinating!
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As I'm from the David Cuthill and Betty Jamieson branch, any relationship is, as you say, is a distant one, not as close as I thought, but with the unusual surname, it's worth making contact whenever it crops up!
I haven't explored much outside my own branch of Cuthills - no tree on Ancestry - and no shared cousin, either, it seems, but good luck with your searches.
I sympathize with your having to search for St Joseph's school - my old school in Dundee, Hawkhill primary, is still on its old site, but has been re-named Blackness primary - Blackness Road being a different street nearby and the original Hawkhill school road is now New Hawkhill...but at least there are lots of pictures of it on the Dundee Photo web-site.
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As you say, it's nice to find a fellow Cuthill descendant!
Please ask me if you have any questions about your Cuthill branch as I added them to my tree whenever I came across one so I just may have the answer.
Also, I'm going up to Inverkeilor and the surrounding areas on the weekend of 17/18 October so let me know if you would like photographs of anywhere. My sister lives in Forfar so we're planning to visit all the old stamping grounds!
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That's really kind of you to offer to take photographs while in Inverkeilor, but I do have a photo (and a transcription of the wording) of Alexander Cuthill's gravestone, from another Cuthill family member, together with a view of the church, so all my hopes are fulfilled already.
I find it so heartening that everyone researching family history is so willing to help one another.
Have an enjoyable weekend!
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Hello,
I worked out how our branches are connected - it was a bit tricky! I think it goes like this....
Your Alexander had a brother called David (1800-1872) who married Mary Sime. They had a daughter called Jane Cuthill who married David Gray. They had a son called William Gray who married Jane Smith Cuthill.
Jane Smith Cuthill was the daughter of Alexander Cuthill (1838-) and Mary Inverarity. Alexander Cuthill had a brother called William Cuthill (both were sons of Robert Cuthill who married Christina Gray). William Cuthill is my Great Great Grandfather.
So the link is between William Gray on your side and Jane Smith Cuthill on mine. It seems the Grays and the Cuthills were very close families!
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Thanks so much, polarbearnoodles, that's a very clear threading through the various mingling branches - good of you to puzzle it out and write it down for me!
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Hello Polarbearnoodles,
I link in from James Cuthill, born 1841, son of Alexander Cuthill born 1802, who, I think, is Robert's brother. Your other surnames are familiar, too.
It's possible we are both in contact, as well, with the "long-lost Cuthill" you mention, who is the source of much of my information - I'll go check and get back to you.
It's good to hear from you.
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Hello breaky,
You link from James Cuthill born 1841, son of Alexander Cuthill born 1802. Could you tell me if James Cuthill had sons?
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Hello Seaocean0,
Yes, James did have sons. I could help with earlier family details.
breaky
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Breaky,
Thanks, and did James have a son named James. What do you know about Allen Pithie Cuthill?
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Seaocean0,
I've sent you a personal message.
breaky
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Thank you received the message. Would like to chat
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I'm descended from Alexander Cuthill, he is my ggg grandfather, then through his son James b1841 as well. Then onto daughter Elizabeth b1878 who married James Strachan and their daughter Jane - phew!
Got quite a bit of Cuthill info if you're interested!
Susan :)
Hello Polarbearnoodles,
I link in from James Cuthill, born 1841, son of Alexander Cuthill born 1802, who, I think, is Robert's brother. Your other surnames are familiar, too.
It's possible we are both in contact, as well, with the "long-lost Cuthill" you mention, who is the source of much of my information - I'll go check and get back to you.
It's good to hear from you.
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Susan18A,
Glad to make contact with you again. (Pseudonyms hiding known friends - which probably happens to other Rootschatters!)
Apologies to anyone who just wants to know about Wilkie's Lane school.
breaky
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For the benefit of anyone interested in old school-registers, etc, you should contact the Dundee City Archives as they have quite a collection. You'll just have to ask them what they've got for St Joseph's. Incidentally, I was brought up in Wilkies Lane (1938 - 1951) and well remember the school. I used to play in the playground in the evenings, etc. There was a war-time emergency water-tank (about 10metres square by 1 metre deep) standing in the playground area bounded by Belfie;ld Street and Loudon's Alley. This was for fire-fighting purposes. I used to cut through the upper part of the school site to get from Wilkies Lane to Belfield Street on my way to school at Blackness Road. At the top end of Wilkies Lane, just past St Joseph's school , stood the catholic chapel. As children, we used to congregate outside the chapel when a wedding was taking place, to wait for the departing couple to lean out of the window of the wedding-car and throw pennies and ha'pennies, for good luck! It was certainly good luck if you managed to scrape up a penny or two and didn't get killed in the rush!! Good luck to you all in your searches for Cuthills etc.
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Hi Dundonian,
I too know this area very well although my family moved out the area when I was about 6 years old into newer houses recently built on the outskirts of the city.
My uncle lived in Isles Lane just a bit down the Hawkhill from the St Josephs school. Some of the family lived on the Burn as it was called and we lived in City Road.
Betty
also a Dundonian!!
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I hope Colcal sees this, as I cannot understand how to reply to her e-mail received today. Re St Joseph's, etc, etc. - although I lived near St Joseph's School, and played there, I wasn't a pupil there. I would cut through St Joseph's on way to my own school at Blackness Road. Sorry to disappoint you Colcal
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Hi Dundonian,
Hope you read this post. I've now found out that my Grandmother didn't go to school in Wilkie's Lane as I first thought.
My Grandmother and her family lived at 49a Wilkie's Lane in the early 1950s. My Dad Terry Morgan would have been about 12 then and his little sister Sylvia about 10. It's a long-shot but do you perhaps remember them?
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Hello polarbearnoodles. Sorry I have to disappoint you, but I don't recognise the Morgan children. I left Wilkies Lane in mid-1951, and it may be that they hadn't yet arrived in the lane. No 49a must have been well up the lane, on the right side, fairly near the chapel. I lived at No.2 which was down the bottom of the lane overlooking the Hawkhill (the main street).
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Hello Dundonian,
Just saw your previous reply re Wilkies Lane!! Do you remember the DYE family who lived there? I am related to them.
Betty
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Hello Dundonian,
Just saw your previous reply re Wilkies Lane!! Do you remember the DYE family who lived there? I am related to them.
Betty
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Hello Betty Boo, I'm afraid the name DYE doesn't register with me(at present). I do remember quite a few people who lived in Wilkies Lane but I ought to have made clear that I was aged 11 when I left in 1951. When were the DYE family there, and, if you know it, what number did they live at?? My family ( Mabel Smith, Wilf, June and Ronald - that's me ) occupied the third floor of No.2. From our bedrooms we looked out across the Hawkhill, and the Princess cinema was right opposite.
Kind regards,
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Hi again Dundonian,
The DYE family lived in Isles Lane in the 1950's and before that too, they were in a house upstairs on the left hand side as you entered Isles lane.
Big family Jessie, Rena, Patricia, Tony, George, Billy and others that I can't even remember now. They too had a large house with inside toilet which was unusual at that time as most toilets were outside and shared with other families.
Ah the Princes Cinema I remember it well I used to line up every Saturday for the childrens films and I also remember getting in Free on your birthday as too.
Betty
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Hello again Betty Boo, I see now that your DYE family didn't live in Wilkies Lane itself, but two streets away in Isles Lane. That explains why I was unlikely to know them. As regards the Princess Cinema, I too used to line up every Saturday for the Princess Club. I remember the proprietrix (Miss Miles I think) who used to lead us through the on-screen promise (to be good citizens, etc, - I can't remember the details) and when she finished and said "on with the show" a huge roar went up as the main film started! At the end they used to open the crash-doors into Well Road, and we would stagger out into the blinding daylight having been in the dark for over an hour. Happy days, eh?
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Hi again Dundonian,
Yes as you say Happy days!! I left the town center to live in Douglas when I was about 6 years old. I later went to Robertson's dance hall in the Hawkhill, we called it Robbies, don't know if you were old enough to remember that as you left Dundee in the 1950's. It was thew 1960's before I went to Robbies, also saw the Beatles in the caird hall in the 1960's too.
Betty
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Hi Polarbearnoodles,
I just happen to be reading through the messages and came across the one about Cuthill's.
I have a Cuthill in my tree. She was May A Cuthill and she married a George McLaggan on the 7 Sept.1877 at Panmure Feus, Barry, Angus. I have her father as being William Cuthill and mother Christina Gray.
That is all the information I have on them at present. I am sure I have a copy of the marriage certificate but do not have time at presen to look for it as going away to work.
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Hi Weemanswife,
Thanks for your post. Very interesting! I think you're definitely related to me somehow. We'll need to do some more research to work out how.
As you'll have read above, my Grandmother was a Cuthill and is descended from a long line of Cuthills who originate from Inverkeilor in Angus.
There's a bunch of descendents from this line who have a private website and if your ancestor is from Barry it's likely that you will be related closely to one of them, if not me.
There are others on this thread who are also related to this line of Cuthills.
I'll have a look at the info you posted and try to work out how we fit together.
Please stay in touch.
Sharon
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Hi again,
I just had a quick look on scotlandspeople and I have found the marriage cert between May and George you mentioned. As you say, her parents were William Cuthill and Christina Gray.
My G-G-G Grandfather Robert Cuthill married a Christina Gray in 1865 but obviously these are not the same people!
I can't find a marriage cert for your William and Christina which would have helped to identify them. I'll try to post on the Cuthill family website this weekend and see if your names chime with anyone.
Sharon
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Me again!
I think I may have found your ancestor in my tree! She might be my Great Great Grand Aunt, daughter of Robert Cuthill and Christina Gray who married in 1835 (not 1865 as I said in my last post).
Email me at (*) if you would like to discuss.
Sharon
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Hi again,
Back to the Cuthills.
I have found the marriage certificate for George McLaggan & May A Cuthill they married in 1877.
His father was given as George McLaggan & Mother Ann Tyrie. May A Cuthill's father is given as
William Cuthill (Ploughman) and her Mother Christina Gray.
I have found a death certificate for George and it lists him as single and dieing on 5th May 1928 aged 72 at the Royal Asylum in the Parish of Montrose, Forfar. His Mother & Father match but listed as single.
By the George would be a Great Grand Uncle to me.
My Mother's Father was a McLaggan and I was born and brought up in Carnoustie but now live in Fife.
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Hi sharon
Cannot let this go. Have been at it all afternoon. I have found a Georgina McLaggan born 26 Aug 1879 At Easthaven, Panbride, Carnoustie and her father was George McLaggan and Mary Ann Cuthill, married 7 Sept 1877 in the Parish of Barry.
You probably know that Barry & Panbride are both registration in Carnoustie.
Will carry on.
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Hi there,
The mystery deepens, as my information fits with yours in some ways but not in others!
I have a death record for Annie McLagan, widow of George McLagan, a salmon fisher. Annie died on 15 January 1946, aged 93, at 18 Smithy Croft, Arbroath. Her father is shown as Robert Cuthill, ploughman (deceased) and her mother is shown as Christina Cuthill, m.s. Gray (deceased). Her death was registered by her son Joseph Cuthill.
This puts her birth date at around 1853.
This fits with the 1861 census showing my Cuthill family (Robert and his wife Christina) which lists a daughter Ann aged 10. She was born in Cromwell Park, Perth.
The marriage record which you drew my attention to also fits with these dates, as she was 23 when she married in 1877.
The problem is: why is her name shown as May A Cuthill and her father as William Cuthill if she is my ancestor and therefore a daughter to Robert Cuthill called Ann?
I'm also not entirely happy about May and George's marriage taking place in Barry as weddings were traditionally held in the bride's parish of birth.
I've not found a birth record for either an Ann or a May A Cuthill. Nor can I find a marriage record for a William Cuthill marrying a Christina Gray.
I'll do some more digging this afternoon but I thought I'd post what I have in the meantime.
More later!
Sharon
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I have found a death certificate for a Annie McLagan who was married to George McLagan and it gives her parents as Robert Cuthill and Christina Grayshe died aged 93 in 1946 at 18 Smithy Croft, Arbroath. Jos. Cuthill son was informant.
It states she was the widow of George McLagan and yet the death certificate for George who died in 1928 at the Royal Asylum in Montrose discribes him as being single.
It is all very confusing but interesting.
Regards Joan
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Hi Joan
I had a look at George's death cert - did you notice there is an entry in the Register of Corrected Entries? Alas, it's not been scanned so we can't view it! I wonder if it says he is not single and is actually married to May or Annie Cuthill.
I was once told of a saying in genealogy: The information is only as good as the informant's knowledge of the deceased!
Did you also notice on Annie's death certificate that their son Joseph's surname was Cuthill - not McLagan!? I tried to find his birth record but no luck so far.
Thanks for your info on the two daughters - I'll have a look at those records.
I did some digging yesterday but to no avail. I did find a George and Ann McLagan on a 1901 census in Dundee. There was also a son called Alexander so I looked up his birth record but his mother's maiden name was Low so they're not our family. I kept in mind that there was another George and Ann McLagan in Angus at the time but his occupation was a coach driver and our findings to date all show our George to be a salmon fisher so I'm confident our findings so far are correct.
I plan to post on the Cuthill Family Directory and ask a chap called David Gray for advice. David is an experienced and knowledgable researcher and is an expert on the Cuthill/Gray families of Angus - he may have come across all this before and already sorted it out. He lives in Arbroath so not far from you!
Fingers crossed.
Sharon
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Hello Polarbearnoodles.
You mentioned Terry Morgan as being your father. I was in the same class as him at Logie between 1951 and 1954.
I was wondering if he is still around and still living in the Dundee area. I'm now living 20 miles or so from Dundee. If Terry is still about, I'd like to make contact.
Terry is on this photo, as am I.
Regards
Tony M.
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Hello Tim Bobbin. I recognised a few faces in your Logie class photo as some of these boys were in my class at Blackness Primary School (up to 1951). ( I'm not sure if Rootschat rules permit this, but I can identify Alex Christie; John(?) Birse; Keith Norrie; James Alcorn; and Willie Soutar. )
'Dundonian' at Romford, Essex
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Hi Dundonian. Is there anyway to have a private chat on here? I have only just joined - not really doing any research into Family Tree as a nephew is already doing it all. He has all the paperwork etc and has gone as far back as the mid 1700's so far.
I was hoping that perhaps I might find some old classmates through this link.
Regards
Tim Bobbin (aka Tony M)
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Hello again, Tim Bobbin. Having reviewed the rules of Rootschat I see that it is out of order to do anything that might identify a living person. That being so, I don't think I can take it any further with you. Sorry about this. If I'm wrong, can someone put me straight please.
Kind regards,
Dundonian
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Hello Tim Bobbin
I'm reading this thread many years later in 2018. Sorry I didn't see your post when you wrote it and many thanks for posting the photo of my father, Terry Morgan, during his school days. Unfortunately he passed away in 1990.
Kind regards
Polarbearnoodles
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I'm wondering how long 13 Wilkie's Lane was around. My paternal great great grandpa lived there with his family in 1851.
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See map at
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19.0&lat=56.45885&lon=-2.97951&layers=170&b=1
should open at west port but pan to left for Wilkie's Lane
Rgds
Markw