RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Cjeff on Monday 29 September 08 10:40 BST (UK)
-
Hi
Don't know if anyone can help but I'm trying to find out any information on the Templeton's of Creetown, Kirkmabreck. The family appear to have been stonemasons in the area.
Regards
Caroline
-
Hi Caroline :)
some of my ancestors came from Creetown - not Templetons though.
What dates and first names are you interested in?
Gadget
-
Hi
My ancestor Samuel Templeton, according to the censuses, originated in Creetown. He was living in North east England by 1861. I am not certain who his parents or family were, therefore I'm interested in finding out any information on Templetons in the area to try and piece together the family.
Caroline
-
There is one baptism showing for a Samuel Templeton in Kirkmabreck:
7 May 1820 Parents - William Templeton and Helen McKean
It might be worth looking at the 1851 for the area - free index here:
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx
and the 1841 - freecen:
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
The IGI www.familysearch.org and Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk will also have other Templetons in the area.
regards
Gadget
-
Thanks Gadget
Unfortunately I don't think this is my Samuel Templeton. My ancestor was born c1829. He died in Newcastle in 1887 Q4 aged 58.
The Samuel Templeton's born around that time and in that area on the 1841 census were:
1. Samuel Templeton born c1826 Kirkcudbrightshire
Living in Creetown Old Street, Kirkmabreck
Other Templetons in the household were Catherine born c1791 Kirkcudbrightshire, Mary born c1826 Kirkcudbrightshire, Jess born c1828 Kirkcudbrightshire, David born c1831 Kirkcudbrightshire.
(We believed our Samuel to be the above. On the 1851 census we found Catherine noted above with husband Samuel, although we have found no marriage record, we assumed these were Samuels parents?)
2. Samuel Templeton born c1832 Kirkcudbrightshire
Living at Gatehouse Back Street, Girthon, Kirkcudbrightshire
Other Templetons in the household were Grace b1794 Kirkcudbrightshire and Eliza b1823 Kirkcudbrightshire.
3. Samuel Templeton born c1831 Wigtownshire
Living at Blacksmiths House, Penninghame, Wigtownshire
Other Templetons in the household were Adam, b1806 Wigtownshire, Anne b1811 Wigtownshire, Elish b1829 Wigtownshire, Jane b1833 Scotland, John b1835 Wigtownshire, Anne b1837 Wigtownshire, William b1840 Wigtownshire.
Regards
Caroline
-
Hi Caroline :)
If you still believe that he was born in Creetown (I see that you posted in Wigtownshire as well), I'll have a look in my MI books later this evening.
Just back from a 7 hour trip from the highlands.
Regards
Gadget
-
Hi again :)
I've just been looking at the MIs for Creetown/Kirkmabreck and Kirkdale
There are 3 Stones in Kirkmabreck but 2 refer to the family in Liverpool and the other is a Helen Templeton who was the wife of a Samuel Nae
Re the 1841 entry - Age given as 15 (b.c. 1826). This was very likely to have been a grouped age. In the 1841 those of 15 and over were (supposed to be) allocated to 5 year age groupings and the ages were rounded down. Thus 15 would include those aged 15-19; 20 would include 20-24; etc.
I see that you have a likely contender in Wigtownshire with possible links to Ayrshire.
Regards
Gadget
Modified to add link to other thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,330929.0.html
-
I'm not sure if I've got the correct Samuel on the 1861 - Westgate, Newcastle RG9/3810 F 39 Page 11
but if so, I see he has a wife, Jane and a young daughter, Catherine. Have you located their marriage cert? This would give his father's name.
Gadget
-
Also on this post
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,330929.0.html
-
Hi Gadget
Thankyou for your help. Samuel is indeed the one you found in 1861 with a wife and daughter in Westgate. However just to add to the mystery, we cannot find a marriage certificate for the couple! All we know is that her name was Jane Lawler, and that she originated in the Leeds area.
I had another death notice through, this time for Samuels eldest daughter Catherine (who was on the 1861 census with them), which again states that father Samuel originated in Troon, Ayrshire!
Still confused!
Thanks again for your help.
Caroline
-
Hi Caroline
Where do you have him b. Creetown?
Also, how did you find that they were stonemasons?
Another also ;D Does it say on his children's birth certs that he was born in Troon? I've not seen that on an E & W cert.before. It usually gives the place of residence rather a birthplace of father.
Hi Madpants - I'd given the link a couple of messages before ;D
There's also a posting on the Ayrshire board.
Gadget
-
Hi again
We believed our Samuel Templeton to be:
1841 - Living with Catherine Templeton (mother? b1789 Kirkmabreck), Mary Templeton (15), David Templeton (10), Jess Templeton (13), Janet Rain (75), Mary M Robert (35) and her children in Creetown.
1851 - Living with others including David Templeton b1831 Creetown in Renfrewshire, Samuel is a stone mason, birthplace given as Creetown.
1861 - Living in Westgate with wife and daughter. Birthplace given as Scotland, stone mason.
1871 - Living with wife and children in Byker, Newcastle with wife and children, birthplace given as Scotland, stone mason.
1881 - Living with wife and children in Byker, stone mason. Birthplace given as Kirkmabruik.
1887 - Died Newcastle
We thought Catherine b1789 was Samuel's Mother (on 1841 census), and on the 1851 she was with husband Samuel (b1791 Girthon), he was in Ross, Borgue, Kirkcudbrightshire on the 1841 census, a mason, with other masons. He was still a mason in 1851, but we can't find either after this time. So we believed his parents to be the above Catherine and Samuel.
We can be certain that our Samuel b c1829 was the one on the 1861-1881 censuses at least!
Regards
Caroline
-
It looks very much like b. Kirkmabreck to me on your evidence but no sign in the records. I've just done a global search on Templeton births in Kirkcudbrightshire for 1820-1835. There is an interesting baptisms in Girthon - might be the Catherine and Samuel senior:
4 June 1820 John Templeton s/o Samuel Templeton and Catherine Milligan.
I know that some of the Kirkmabreck records are missing - but I thought it was earlier on :-\
I'll see if I can find anything else.
Gadget
-
There is an interesting baptisms in Girthon - might be the Catherine and Samuel senior:
4 June 1820 John Templeton s/o Samuel Templeton and Catherine Milligan.
I'll see if I can find anything else.
Gadget
Samuel is shown as being a Mason in this entry. They are living Gatehouse of Fleet at the time - just around the corner from Creetown.
Gadget
-
I also see that on the 1851, Samuel, senior was born in Girthon and Catherine in Kirkmabreck. I think the female Jess, aged 13 onthe 1841 is the Jannet, aged 23 on the 1851 (Janet - Jessie - Jess):
http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?search_name=Jessie&search_sex=F&action=search&Submit=Submit
The 1841 just has the following as one household:
169 Old Street, Creetown
Catherine Templeton, 50
Mary, 15,
Samuel, 15
Jess, 13
David, 10
all b. Kirkcudbrightshire
Tthe other names (Robert and Rain family) were living next door at no. 168. There is a definite start/finish slash between the households. Maybe the indexing was wrong but my info is from the census image.
I am sure that this is your family now having looked at the availably evidence (a family of masons, David and Samuel on the 1851, b. Creetown or Kirkmabreck on some of the censuses, etc.). The problem is that there seems to be no baptism record (many were not recorded or not baptised or maybe not bpt. in C of Scotland).
I'll have a look at what Girthon records I have.
Have you followed up David and sister Janet/Jess?
Gadget
-
Have you got this:
A possible for David on the 1861:
Fullarton St, Dundonald, Ayrshire
Reg Dist 595 ED 9 page 27
David Templeton, 26, mason, b. Gallowayshire
Jane, w, 25, b. Symington, Ayrshire
David, 4,s, b. Dundonald
Agnes Logan, d, 2, b. Dumfriesshire
I think it is! Very interesting - I have found the marriage of David in Dundonald in 1856:
15 Sept 1856 - banns according to the Free Chuirch of Scotland (may explain lack of baptisms!)
David Milligan Templeton, aged 22, a Mason. Parents - Samuel Templeton, mason and Catherine m.s. Milligan (deceased).
and Jane Crawford, 23, Parents - Andrew Crawford, carter and Agnes m.s. Logan
witnesses - Charles Crawford and Janet Crawford
Only Catherine is shown as deceased on the marriage cert. so Samuel, snr. is still worth searching for.
Gadget
Added - a certain spookiness or pure chance about this thread as I now live in Newcastle and my 3 x great granny grew up in Kirkmabreck and was b. Girthon :o
-
Gadget
This looks to be the son John that you posted an OPR birth for in 1820 in the 1861 Census:
John Templeton 40, stone mason, b. Creetown, Kirkcudbrightshire
Isabella Templeton 38, b. Troon Dund Par, Ayrshire
Samuel Templeton 13
Jane Templeton 11
John Templeton 9
Janet Templeton 3
Isabella Templeton 1
Address: 15 Academy Street, Dundonald Ayr
Everyone showing as born in Troon, apart from John Snr.
Monica :)
-
Likely OPR marriage entry for him:
JOHN TEMPLETON and ISABELLA HUNTER
Marriage: 28 SEP 1846 in Dundonald, Ayr
Monica
-
Looks like him, Monica :)
He was already away from home by 1841 by the looks of it!
I'm sure that this is the correct family. I've only followed David so far. Haven't checked the Janet/Jess(ie). Also can't find a death of Samuel, snr - although allegedly alive in 1856.
Gadget
Added - seen your last! looks like they moved to the Dundonald area then - 2 brothers
-
I found this possibility for Jessie:
Marriages:
GILLESPIE, John - M26/4/1849 - At the Hill, by Creetown, on the 26th ultimo, by the Rev. John Muir, Mr John Gillespie, ship carpenter, to Miss Jessie Templeton.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE/2006-01/1136975251
Monica
Added: Actually, not sure if this has any bearings, just seen there is a Janet Templeton, 23 at home with Samuel and Catherine in 1851
-
Worth investigating but she was at home with her mother and possible 1 year old daughter in the 1851 - see above :-\
-
Sorry Gadet - I just went back and added to post when your post came through.
Monica
-
However, you might have just given me some info with that link, Monica :D
Death of an Agnes Porter just below. I wonder if it's my Jean's Aunty :)
Gadget
-
This is the link to the main index search page for the WFP http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~leighann/wfp/intro.html
Monica :)
-
Yes thanks - I use and recommend it often. It's a great site!
The person who did do the Wigtown pages used to put them up on the Rootsweb board at regular intervals in the old days - I used to look out for my families :)
-
Thanks all for your help, much appreciated!
Just an update, I have found the death records for Jessie, David and William Templeton - all with parents Samuel and Catherine. I have been unable to find brother John's death record and Samuel senior's as yet. Mother Catherine appears to have died 1851-1854, unsure as to where. David and William died in Ayrshire and Jessie in Glasgow. It states on Jessie's record that she was buried in Troon. Maybe the rest of the family are buried there too. Any help with Troon MI's would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Caroline
-
Hi Caroline :)
It might be worth starting a new thread on the Ayrshire board requesting MI look ups in Troon.
Gadget
-
Thanks Gadget
I've posted a note on the Ayrshire board and will hopefully get some answers!
Could I ask you where I'd be able to get hold of the Templeton MI's for Kirkmabreck, you previously mentioned the 3 stones there which refer to the family in Liverpool and Helen Templeton who was the wife of a Samuel Nae.
I haven't been able to find Mary Templeton, who was born c1826, and was on the 1841 census with I presume her mother Catherine and siblings, maybe she died in the area before the 1851 census. I also haven't been able to trace Samuel and Catherine's granddaughter Mary Ann R Thomson born c1850 Kirkmabreck, she was on the 1851 cenus with them, I was hoping to try and find out who her mother was, but have had no joy.
Thanks again for all your help.
Caroline
-
Hi Caroline :)
You can get the Kirkmabreck MIs here:
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/acatalog/Kirkcudbrightshire_MI.html
It's vol 6.
Gadget
-
Caroline, Source Newcastle City Library - Samuel Templeton married Jane Lawther, children Robert, Mary-Jane, Ellen and William. Occupation stone mason. Born Kirkmabruik. Died Newcastle. Found this years ago, cannot remember dates but about your time. Hope this helps. B. P.S. Could have been Lowther.
-
Caroline, further thought. If the Samuels are the same stone mason, the daughter in1861 would be Mary-Jane. B.
-
Hi B
Thanks for that. I had a look on the search indexes at Newcastle City Council and marriages on ancestry.com but still can't find the marriage record - I've tried the name Lowther, Lawther. I suspect it is the correct couple - their children according to the censuses were Catherine b1860, Samuel b1863, William b1867, Mary Jane b1869, Ellen b1876 and Robert b1878. My link is William, we have his birth certificate which states his father to be Samuel Templeton and mother Jane Lawler.
Thanks for your help.
Caroline
-
Caroline, I have an idea that William may have died in South Africa. B.
-
My William died in Newbiggin in Northumberland in1940.
I know that William's brother Samuel Templeton died in South Africa. I was kindly sent death records for both Samuel b 1863 and their sister Catherine b 1860.
Caroline
-
Caroline, I am related to Robert Templeton and if I could wave a magic wand would like to know more about Mary Ethel Currie, his wife. Her father was Archibald and her mother an Armstrong. Brothers and sisters, Eliza, Margaret, Nathanial and Lovett. Margaret married a McNamee and lived in Consett. He became a priest and worked in Rome. This is of no real interest to you but I feel better for "putting it out there ".
I have a certificate of permission for Robert to, I think start work, with Jane's name as Lawther on it But she could not write her own name - it is x. I am not in U.K. so all a bit difficult. B.
,
-
Caroline, before I forget, I think Jane's mother may have been a Mack from Yorkshire, father involved in foundary work. B.
-
Strange to think we may be related in some small way!
I don't know if I am on the right track but I have Jane's parents to be Andrew and Elizabeth, living in Leeds, both were born in Ireland.
As for Robert Templeton I have him married to Mary Ethel Currie with the following children:
Jean b1913 Q2 Newcastle
David b 1915 Q2 Newcastle
John b1917 Q1 Newcastle
Mary E b1920 Q4 Newcastle
William b1926 Q3 Newcastle
Doris 1928 Q1 Newcastle
I think their father Samuel Templeton died in 1887 in the Newcastle and mother Jane idied n 1918 in Newcastle. Jane also ran a general dealers shop in Newcastle.
I do live in the UK but it's not easy to find the information from here either!
Caroline
-
Caroline, the bods mentioned are Robert's family but there was a Norman born first. Mary-Jane ran the shop for some time I think. I do not think that she married. I got the Mack connection from the certificate that I mentioned (date) but paid for it and am not sure if it is o.k. Have you found any S. African connections? I must start on the Currie side of things but am hopeless and much I have is just memories of people chatting. B. Did William move on and leave M.J. with the shop?
-
Caroline, If you have Robert's marriage details, can you give me Mary Ethel's parent's details please? B.
-
Hi B
I don't have any details of Robert's marriage unfortunately, just having looked at the ancestry site, I suspected he was the Robert Templeton who had married Mary Ethel Currie and had the children we mentioned. Do you have any idea when and where Robert died?
I haven't found any South African connections apart from that Samuel b1863 went over there I guess to do some labouring, and he died at Port Elizabeth in 1899.
William Templeton married Elizabeth Grace Jane Armstrong in Newcastle in 1892 and they moved across to Newbiggin by the Sea in Northumberland, where William was a coal miner.
Kind regards
Caroline
-
Caroline, thank you for trying. I would think that Robert died in 1929/30 address 19,Noble Street, Newcastle Upon Tyne. How much extended family have you found during all this? B.
-
Caroline, last question: what was the surname of Andrew, Jane's father - born in Ireland? It is funny that all of this started with me spending 5mins fiddling with the laptop. I'm Robert's grandchild. Please let me know how you get on. B.
-
C. Sorry, I meant mother. B.