RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: yelkcub on Tuesday 30 September 08 16:35 BST (UK)
-
An ancestor of mine, Catherine Downey, married Robert Hutton 15 Jan 1857 in Adelaide. Hutton was a coal miner from Glasgow (b. 1831) He mined gold in Victoria, and some time after his marriage went to Tasmania (Emu Bay? Burnie?) as a clerk or accountant. The couple had several children, and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has knowledge of them. Catherine Downey was the sister of my great great grandfather: her mother died in the workhouse, and I should like to know about Catherine's emigration-did she travel alone, or with other members of her family? Any information or suggestions welcome
Ian in Cornwall
-
Hello there
When Catherine Downey married her father is listed as Francis Downey. There are no other brides listed with the same father.
However there are two with no father listed
Mary Eliza Downey aged 32 19 in 1854
Rosana Mackle Downey no age given in 1856
And one groom
James Henry Horace Downey aged 40 in 1889.
The online shipping records only go to 1850.
There are several Rootchatters who have what is known as the BISA which might contain some further information for you.
It would be helpfull if you could give us Catherine's parents names so we can search further afield to see if any other children may have come to Australia.
Jenn
-
BISA has absolutely no information about Catherine Downey. Did Catherine come from Cornwall....as none of the Downey/Downies listed in BISA seems to have originated there.
....dee
-
Hello De
I take it nothing on Robert Hutton either?
I am just doing up their children to post just in case someone may have them in the backgounds.
Jenn
-
Children born to Robert Jospeh Hutton and Catherine Downey/ Downay/Downie
Eliza Mary 8/11/1857 South Australia 11/195
Robert Francis 18/1/1859 South Australia
Died 4/1/1895 at Beaconsfield aged 35 2/1895 (wondr if it was a mine accident)
Born in Victoria
David Downey 1861 Tarrandale reg no 4341
Died 12/2/1893 aged 31 at Beaconsfield 5/1893
John Thomas 1863 at Blue reg no 19086
Jane Catherine 1867 Blackwood reg no 881
Teresa Warwick 1869 Blackwood reg no 20749
Mary Victoria 1874 Blackwood reg no 795
ROBERT JOSEPH HUTTON died 10/8/1880 aged 49 at Emu Bay 161/1880
Jenn
-
A possible remarriage
HUTTON CATHERINE aged 49 married 5/22/1883
CONNER BARNARD aged 70 at Emu Bay 145/1883
Jenn
-
There are several Robert Huttons listed in BISA but none of them fit. There is one born 1831 but he doesn't fit either......
.....dee
-
No inquest for the death of Robert Francis Hutton, so doubt it was a mining accident.
-
Many single women did come to South Australia in that period of time....they were brought out to provide servants and also husbands for the excess of men in the young colony.
-
How very true Dee I had a couple of GGGM who were just that! Was there anything in the inquests for David Downey Hutton?
HUTTON DAVID DOWNEY aged 22 married 8/3/1884 Albert Ann JENKIN aged 25 at Beaconsfield 9/1884
Children
WILLIAM JOSEPH 9/12/1885 Beaconsfield 810/1885
EVA MAY 22/3/1888 Beaconsfield 787/1888
MINETTE CORAL 10/9/1890 Beaconsfield 797/1890
HUTTON ROBERT FRANCIS aged 24 married 26/9/1883 Maria DALLY aged 19 at Beaconsfiled 16/1883
Children
CLAUDE OSBORNE 25/2/1884 Beaconsfield 728/1884
MILICENT ADELAIDE 16/7/1885 Beaconsfiled 773/1885
RUBINA VICTORIA 13/10/1887 Beaconsfield 834/1887
AUBREY CLIFFORD 1/9/1889 Beaconsfield 803/1889
ALMA VERNON 21/2/1893 Beaconsfield 12/1893
HUTTON JOHN THOMAS aged 22 married 5/5/1886 Ellen KELEHER aged 19 at Emu Bay reg no 105/1886
Children
MARY VICTORIA 15/11/887 Emu Bay 1252/1881.
JOHN THOMAS 1/3/1889 Warath 3568/1890
ROBERT FRANCIS 23/5/1891 Warath 3722/1891
FREDERICK JAMES 18/8/1898 Emu Bay 511/1898
Jenn
-
HUTTON Eliza Mary born Adelaide married John Charles Kerr born Glasgow
In 1878 in Victoria reg no 5093
Agnes Catherine born 1879 Richmond reg no 18706
Robert James born 1882 Hotham reg no 3369
Jenn
-
There's a David Hutton listed in the Inquests but not a David Downey Hutton. When did he die?
-
Born in Victoria
David Downey 1861 Tarrandale reg no 4341
Died 12/2/1893 aged 31 at Beaconsfield 5/1893
Jenn
-
No....not him in the Inquest Index......
-
I’m overwhelmed by the quantity and quality of replies to my query re Catherine Downey – many thanks to all who have contributed so far. It’s going to take me a while to work through the information you have provided, but I’m sure that some of the people you have identified are descendants of Catherine.
A little background: Catherine was the daughter of Mary Teresa [Page] who married Francis Downey, a plumber, in 1831. Mary Teresa and Francis went on to have the following children:
Francis 1831
Catherine 1833
Mary Eliza 1835
Jane 1839
James 1846
Theresa 1850
Catherine’s parents got into difficulties and Francis was imprisoned for debt during the 1840s. I do not find him in the 1851 census, but his wife Mary Teresa is found as a workhouse inmate. The same year, Mary Teresa’s father Henry Page died, having made a substantial bequest to each of his children, though he stated in his will that he did not know the present whereabouts of his daughter Mary Teresa. Living with him (1851 census) was Catherine Downey, his granddaughter, who I presume was also unaware of her mother’s whereabouts. The Page family was in comfortable circumstances – in fact, one of Mary Teresa’s sisters married a naval officer who was the son of the Marquis of Queensberry.
Having yesterday searched the index of the PRO Victoria, Australia, I now think that Catherine sailed to Australia on board the Sacramento (the record gives the date April 1853, but whether that date refers to when the ship left England or arrived in Australia, I don’t know). With her, I think, was her sister Mary, two years younger In the online list, Catherine is said to be 20 (IGI – born 6 July 1833) and Mary 18 (IGI – born 1835). Whether any of Catherine’s other siblings made it to Australia, I do not yet know. In the PRO Victoria record, it is stated that Catherine and Mary were assisted emigrants, though I’m sure the Page family would have given them some financial assistance.
Catherine, I think, married a Scot called Robert Hutton in Adelaide in 1857. [Robert Joseph Hutton, born Edinburgh 28 Jan 1831, coal miner, emigrated to Australia (gold miner) to Victoria – married Catherine Downey 15 Jan 1857 in Adelaide: had 7 children then went to Tasmania (Clerk/accountant). Robert Hutton died 10 Aug 1880 Emu Bay (Burnie) Tasmania]. In 1883 in Emu Bay Catherine remarried: to Barnard Conner (b. 1813) transportee? Conner was 20 years older than Catherine. So, the people mentioned in replies born Emu Bay must surely be descendants of Catherine.
Again, thanks for all replies – I shall be noting and recording all the names so far put forward, and continuing in my search for more on Catherine’s life in Australia.
Ian
-
Hello there Ian
Glad we could help
following on with Mary Eliza being a strong possiblity for Catherine's sister allthough nothing to confim it as yet but Francis being her second son's name could be a pointer.
MARTIN Frederick Charles married 2/2/1854 aged 32 single
Mary Eliza Downey aged 19 single at Trinity Church Adelaide 21/32
Children born in SA
Frederick Horace 2/11/1854 Adelaide 5/95
Catherine 14/6/1856 Reed Beds Adelaide 7/258
Francis 29/5/1858 Reed Beds 11/344
Theresa 1/6/1861 Reed Beds 20/136
Emily Jane 27/4/1864 Reedbeds 31/268
Ernest James 6/11/1871 Reed Beds 103/43
Jenn
-
Now looks very promising
Frederich Charles Martin dies 6/1/1877 aged 56 at North Parade Adelaide 78/81
and Mary Eliza remarries
NORMAN Richard William aged 36 single father Richard Norman
marries 6/5/1878 atManse Port Adelaide 115/512
Mary Eliza MARTIN aged 38 widow father Francis Downey ( allthough her age is a wee bit out)
Jenn
-
Well done, Jenn.....
No mention of the Martin family in BISA either!
or the Norman couple!
-
Thanks Dee :D an elusive lot aren't they
MARTIN Francis aged 38 widower father Frederick Charles Martin
married Mary Foster aged 30 Widow father Daniel Weman
3/6/1897 St Mary Presbytery Port Adelaide 191/833
mmmn no sign of an earlie marriage will look furth afield,
Jenn
-
The transcription of the full details from the birth certificate of John Thomas Hutton born 1863 are available from here......
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mgfhs/dawnh2.htm
It's a bit of a kerfuffle for you to order the details from overseas for that tiny amount of money.
Victorian certificates often have amazing amounts of information on them.
"Births
Date and place of birth; name of child and whether present or not; name of parents (including mother's maiden name); occupation of parents; ages and birthplace of parents; date and place of marriage of parents; previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased; signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; names of witnesses; date and place of registation. " (courtesy of Jenn's entry in the Australian Resources .)
If you would like the details, I am quite happy to see if I can get them for you. I actually have some spare certificates that I've been meaning to send her anyway......
......dee
-
A excellent thought there Dee, here hoping it is the same Hutton
some marriages in South Australia
MARTIN Frederick Horace agedd 22 single father Frederick Martin married 17/3/1877 at Manse port Adelaide to Elizabeth Ann JORDAN aged 19 father William Henry Jordan 110/884
MARTIN Ernest James aged 29 single father Frederick Charles Martin married 22/12/1902 St Pauls Church Port Adelaide 213/965 to LINKLATER Janet Dykes aged 24 single father David Linklater
BRIMAGE John Charles aged 23 single father Thomas Brimage married 17/3/1894 at St Pauls Church Port Adelaide 178/1024 to MARTIN Emily Jane aged 25 single father Frederick Charles Martin
JELLY William Henry aged 36 single father Thomas Jelly married 10/6/1886 at St Pauls Church Port Adelaide 147/1165 to Catherine MARTIN aged 28 single father Frederick Charles Martin
Jenn
-
Children born to Robert Jospeh Hutton and Catherine Downey/ Downay/Downie
Eliza Mary 8/11/1857 South Australia 11/195
Robert Francis 18/1/1859 South Australia
Died 4/1/1895 at Beaconsfield aged 35 2/1895 (wondr if it was a mine accident)
Born in Victoria
David Downey 1861 Tarrandale reg no 4341
Died 12/2/1893 aged 31 at Beaconsfield 5/1893
John Thomas 1863 at Blue reg no 19086
Jane Catherine 1867 Blackwood reg no 881
Teresa Warwick 1869 Blackwood reg no 20749
Mary Victoria 1874 Blackwood reg no 795
ROBERT JOSEPH HUTTON died 10/8/1880 aged 49 at Emu Bay 161/1880
Jenn
I checked 1863 Jenn....the only John Thomas Hutton born in Victoria that year........ :D
.....dee
-
Should have realised Dee you would go the extra mile before posting. That certificate should be able to verify that Ian is on the right track with the marriage to Robert Hutton.
Jenn
-
Catherine, I think, married a Scot called Robert Hutton in Adelaide in 1857. [Robert Joseph Hutton, born Edinburgh 28 Jan 1831, coal miner, emigrated to Australia (gold miner) to Victoria – married Catherine Downey 15 Jan 1857 in Adelaide: had 7 children then went to Tasmania (Clerk/accountant). Robert Hutton died 10 Aug 1880 Emu Bay (Burnie) Tasmania]. In 1883 in Emu Bay Catherine remarried: to Barnard Conner (b. 1813) transportee? Conner was 20 years older than Catherine. So, the people mentioned in replies born Emu Bay must surely be descendants of Catherine.
Again, thanks for all replies – I shall be noting and recording all the names so far put forward, and continuing in my search for more on Catherine’s life in Australia.
Ian
Ian, there are references to two Bernard Connors in the Convict records of Tasmania.
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/nameindexes
Link to Tasmanian Convicts and put Connor into the search engine. The reference number by each will give you more information with more reference links. Clicking on them will give you item details and allow you to view digital images.
......dee
-
I am rather excited at this find
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/Index_search.asp?searchid=42
Outward Bound from Melbourne
DOWNEY M MISS 18 ONKAPARINGA JUN 1853 ADELAIDE JUN 1853 003
DOWNEY C MISS 16 ONKAPARINGA JUN 1853 ADELAIDE JUN 1853 003
So what made the girls leave and go off to Adelaide?
Jenn
-
Oh well done, Jenn.
But I wonder...... :-\
-
I wonder if their brother James was there
And one groom
James Henry Horace Downey aged 40 in 1889
Jenn
-
He wasn't in BISA...... :-\
-
Well done both of you! I wish I had your expertise to follow some more of my family mysteries! As you said: 'an elusive lot'! Ain't that the truth.
In the record of the Sacramento, the ship bringing Catherine and Mary to Australia, the date given is April 1853. Do you think that means the date of arrival? In which case the sisters were only in Melbourne for two months before taking the Onkaparinga to Adelaide. I'm sure this record must refer to the same Downey girls, but interestingly Catherine's age is incorrect - Catherine was 20 (and her age is given as 16); Mary's age is correctly recorded.
I'll have a look at the Tasmanian convict records - though I have no hard information that Barnard Conner was a convict rather than a voluntary settler. I think I have found BC in the England 1841 census, living with two siblings in Birmingham, their birthplace simply recorded as Ireland.
Best wishes
Ian
-
I should add that I am interested in the 'James Henry Horace Downey aged 40 in 1889' you have found. Although Catherine and Mary's brother James was born 1846, nevertheless all his given names are family names: Mary Teresa's father and brother were Henry (another of her brothers had Henry as a middle name). She also had a brother Horace Haverhill Page (who I've never succeeded in finding after his appearance in the 1841 census, and he does not appear in any list of Page deaths). Horace's middle name is so unusual and distinctive, yet he vanishes from the record. Perhaps he too emigrated ... but to where?
Ian
-
More amazing discoveries - the dramatic account of the arrival of Catherine and Mary Downey to Australia
The Melbourne Morning Herald Thursday 28th April 1853:
THE SACRAMENTO, ship, with 300 Government emigrants, went on shore at Point Lonsdale, at 3.30 a.m. on the 27th. The passengers were all being landed by the assistance of the pilots. The Van Gellan picked up her long boat with first and second officer, drifting out to sea, belonging to above vessel. She also reports the sea breaking over her. She has £70,000 specie [?] on board, which was not landed when this intelligence left. She is expected to become a total wreck.
The Melbourne Morning Herald Friday 29th April 1853:
WRECK AT THE HEADS. - [From the Geelong Advertiser]. - The barque Sacramento, Holmes, master, from London, with 250 Government emigrants, arrived off the heads yesterday. About three o'clock, a.m., the ship struck upon Point Lonsdale reef, about one mile from shore, and four from the lighthouse. The long boat, life boat, and two smaller boats, were immediately hoisted out, and the landing of the immigrants commenced. Some were taken to the shore, and others landed temporarily on the reef. The news was brought to Geelong yesterday afternoon by the Rev. Mr. Lord, chaplain to the Sacramento. When he left the pilot station yesterday morning at nine, the boats were busily engaged in landing the immigrants, but as a heavy surf was running, the process was necessarily slow, and even if the weather remained favourable, it would occupy the greater portion of yesterday to land them all. The condition of some of the poor creatures, crowding into the boats, many of them in their night dresses only, was truly pitiable. From the ship's position she is not likely to be got off, and in the meantime the immigrant's luggage and cargo is in jeopardy; indeed, as the weather has since been very squally, the vessel has most likely already gone to pieces. The Rev. Mr. Lord says that the greatest kindness was shown by Captain Preston, Mr. Foy, and the pilots, and also by Mrs. Dodd, who resides near the station. The Sacramento left London on the 22nd December, and was detained by stress of weather in the Downs for nearly a month. About ten days after leaving, the surgeon died of an affection of the throat. Several other deaths had occurred, chiefly of infants. On the death of the surgeon, Mr. Lord acted in his stead, and was so far fortunate that only one death (an infant) occurred subsequently. Several vessels passed up the Western Channel yesterday, so that the news of the wreck will have reached the Government. Our local immigration agent will proceed overland this morning with supplies of comforts for those who have been landed.
The Melbourne Morning Herald Wednesday 4th May 1853:
THE SACRAMENTO WRECK. - But little remains of this vessel, she is totally broken up. Her deck timbers lie about a hundred yards from the skeleton of the hull, which is broken in two, and apparently not two bullock loads of timber remain. She brought only about 30 tons of cargo, chiefly spirits and ale - consigned to order. Her masts went overboard just twenty-four hours after she struck. The beach between point Lonsdale and the Bluff is strewn with fragments of the wreck. The conduct of Mr. and Mrs. Porter, at the Flag Staff, deserves the highest commendation. Mr. Foy, superintendent of the Lighthouse, displayed great promptitude in sending a dray to convey the shipwrecked emigrants to the Heads, where they were greatly indebted to the hospitality of Mrs. Dodds, at the Government house, whose liberality on this, as on previous occasions, cannot be otherwise than deeply appreciated. Happily no accident to life, or limb occurred to any on board the ill-fated vessel. - Geelong Advertiser.
MORE
-
[Continued]
The Melbourne Morning Herald Thursday 5th May 1853:
THE SACRAMENTO. - We are happy to state that although the wreck of the Sacramento has been disastrous and the loss of the vessel, the cargo, and the luggage must be much felt by those to whom it belonged, yet it is so far cheering to know that no lives have been lost. When the immigration agents of Geelong arrived at the Heads, the scene was heart-rending, as many as possible of the immigrants had been sheltered and fed by the Pilots, but there were neither food nor accommodation for three hundred people. The consequence was that many of the sufferers were scatted on the beach, wringing their hands in despair, and what tended to heighten the distress was that relations had lost each other in the confusion. The arrival of the Government agent with provisions and other comforts was a most acceptable relief. Steps were immediately taken to find out the scattered and lost, which was successful, and on the arrival of the Aphrasia from Melbourne, they safely embarked and were conveyed to Melbourne. - Geelong Advertiser.
Sacramento Sailed from Deptford England 22 Dec 1852 ~ The Ship was wrecked on Point Lonsdale Victoria Australia 24 Apr 1853, with no loss of life.
SACRAMENTO - 1850-1853
Master: Captain A. Dove (1850-52); Captain W. Holmes (1853)
Rigging: Barque; sheathed in yellow metal in 1850; fastened with copper bolts
Tonnage: 430 tons using old measurements and 447 tons using new measurements
Construction: 1850 in Sunderland
Owners: Pryde & Co. (1850-52); Teighe & Co. (1853)
Port of registry: Liverpool (1850-52); London (1853)
Port of survey: Sunderland (1850-52); London (1853)
Voyage: sailed for Port Philip (1853)
The three-masted sailing ship Sacramento was just three years old when it struck disaster on the Point Lonsdale reef at the treacherous entrance to Victoria’s Port Phillip Bay in April 1853. It was when the newly created colony was in the grip of gold fever and thousands of emigrants were pouring in from all over the globe seeking their fortunes. Dozens of ships with large passenger-carrying capacities were plying the oceans bringing their human cargoes to Australia and many met with disaster.
In the case of the Sacramento, there were more than 300 passengers and crew on board, en route to Melbourne from London. The drama unfolded on the night of April 26 1853 after land near Port Phillip’s entrance was sighted. The captain ordered the ship to stand off the heads until morning when he planned to enter the harbour. During the night, the ship began drifting toward shore but no immediate attempt was made to do anything. The captain was called from his bed at 3am but it was too late to save the ship. It struck Lonsdale reef 10 minutes later. Luckily, all passengers and crew were able to safely go ashore, averting what could have been a major calamity. They were taken in drays to Queenscliff and later continued their journey to Melbourne aboard a bay steamer. The Sacramento quickly began breaking up, and within a week the hull snapped in two, littering nearby beaches with wreckage.
Before the ship was lost, 12 chests of coins holding $120,000 were recovered. The captain and second mate were charged over the wreck. The captain’s case was tossed out after all the witnesses disappeared. The mate was sentenced to four months jail.
Statement of Significance
The Sacramento was a 430-ton net (447-ton gross) three-masted wooden barque built in Sunderland, England and owned by Teighe & Co. of London, having previously been owned by Pryde & Co. of Liverpool
Physical Description
Construction Material: Wood
Rig: Barque
Hull Details: Yellow metalled, copper fastened. Classified Lloyd's A1, 1852
Propulsion: Sail
Number of Masts: 3
History
Built Date: 1850
Built Port / Country: Sunderland / England
Registration Port / Country: London / England
Voyage Details
Date Lost 27 Apr 1853
Voyage from London to Melbourne
Cargo 60,000 pounds specie, approx. 30 tons cargo, mainly spirits
Weather conditions Wind: W; force 2; fine night; ebb tide
Happy landings, eh?
-
Ian, very interesting reading for the Sacremento, if it is the same girls a bit scary to say the least. One of the girls on here goes to Provic so I have pm'd her to take a look at the thread to see if she can help
Now James was a bit of a lad by the look of things
DOWNEY James Henry Horace aged 40 single father Francis Downey married 12/3/1889 at Registery Office Adelaide to Susan CLARIDGE aged 29 Widow father William Norman Howell
158/856
Caroline Elizabeth DOWNEY born 1/3/1883 at Queenstown 235/406 symbol X Cross reference Caroline Elizabeth CLARDIGE
Father James Henry Horace DOWNEY Mother Susan Claridge nee Howe
Jonathan DOWNEY born 29/1/1884 at Port Augusta 320/241
Father James Henry Horcae Downey mother Sarah Teresa Howe
Joshua DOWNEY born 7/3/1886 at Port Augusta 369/291
Father James Henry Horace Downey mother Susan Howell
Enock Nathan DOWNEY born 28/7/1890 at Port Augusta 462/292
Father James Henry Horace Downey mother susan Howell
Ezekiel Job DOWNEY born 27/4/1892 at Lyndoch 499/135
Father James Henry Horace Downey mother Susan Howell
Jenn
-
Great find about the Sacramento, Ian! :D :D
Morning Jenn.....now that's a good start to the day! :D :D
-
Morning Dee
found James Henry Horace and assorted family in WA lived to old age buried in Karrata
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html
Jenn
-
Ahhhh Jen.....some good electoral rolls for Western Australia......maybe Ian can look them up if he has Ancestry.......
If not, I'm sure there'll be help..... ;)
.....dee
-
Hello there Dee
Lots on the Electoral Roll but not inclinded to start typing unless they may be of some help and as you say Ian may have access.
We will have to see if the family names of the children tie in ;D
Susan Downey died in WA
death
DOWNEY SUSAN aged 39 father WILLIAM mother UNKNOWN at GUILDFORD reg no 853 1899
death for DOWNEY JONATHAN aged 11 father JAMES HENRY HOR mother UNKNOWN UNKNOWN reg no 938 1895
-
a couple more births in Western Australia
DOWNEY ELIJAH HAYNES father JAMES HENRY HOR mother HOWELL SUSAN at PERTH reg no 2141 1894
DOWNEY ISAIAH BENJAMIN father JAMES mother HOWELL SUSAN at FREMANTLE reg no 1312 1897
jenn
-
Hi Ian
Tropicalj pm'd and asked me to check this thread.
I see Mary & Catherine arrived assisted passengers, so i'll check the passenger list for you.
I won't be able to go up this week as my daughter goes in for a knee reconstruction and is coming home to convalesce for a couple of weeks.
regards
Genni
-
Many thanks for all your amazing help - most recently for the details of James Henry Horace Downey – as you say, a bit of a lad! I am quite sure that he is a brother of Catherine and Mary Eliza (given his father’s name on the marriage record, and the family significance of each of his forenames), and I looked up his burial record, as you suggested. A couple of weeks ago, when I first picked up the Downey-in-Australia trail, I had an email from someone in Australia (WA, I think) who said that James was her great grandfather, though she didn't mention that he had emigrated to Australia. She wrote:
“James and Theresa were about 8 and 4 years old when their mother Mary T(h)eresa died in 1854 and were raised in the workhouse. James was born 29th March 1846 (address unknown and not registered) but on one of his children’s birth certificates he states he was born in Devonshire, but more likely in or around Devonshire Street. He appears to be unsure of his proper year of birth, his death certificate states he was aged 95 when he died in June 1943, but was actually 97”.
[This is clearly the same person as in the burial record you pointed me towards. The age in the Australian records is not quite right, but James wouldn’t be the first man to lie about his age!]
I have written back to the person who wrote the above, and am waiting for her reply, hoping it may cast some light on when (and why) James came to Australia. I don’t think he accompanied his two sisters on board the Sacramento, but it seems likely that he joined one or both of them when he first landed in Australia.
In fact I do have a subscription to Ancestry, but not one that permits detailed perusal of the Australian electoral registers – perhaps I should upgrade now that I have found a family outside the UK. But for now I’m more than happy with what you have been kind enough to find for me already.
I’m interested in why he was given the name Horace: as I’ve written before, Mary Teresa had a brother Horace Haverhill Page, and her brother’s son (my ancestor) was Charles Horace Page.
Ian
-
Ian, here's the information I can find from the early Electoral Rolls......
1916
Wellaton St Midland Junction, Guildford
James Henry Horace Downey Storeman
Sayer St Midland Junction, Guildford
Ezekial Job Downey railway fireman
1925
Wellaton St Midland Junction, Guildford
James Henry Horace Downey Storeman
45 The Crescent, Midland Junction, Guildford
Elijah Haynes Downey Locomotive fireman
Isiah Benjamin Downey Engine driver
Brockman Road, Midland Junction, Guildford
Ezekial Joseph Downey Loco driver
Sarah Amelia Downey Housewife
-
Hello there Ian
not sure of the children's names for Henry Page
but bearing in mind there is a James
marriage in SA
PAGE James aged 26 single father unrecorded married 18/2/1851 at Holy Trinity Church Adelaide 4/244 to ALLEN Susan Elizabeth
Now I relaise that James PAge would be a very common however he does call one of his sons James Horace Page.
Jenn
-
Again, I can find no mention of Horace Page in BISA, and the James that Jenn has just listed was listed as follows...... (Information from BISA shoild always be checked.)
James PAGE
born 8th Oct 1825 in London, ENGLAND
died 30th Sep 1913 at Mitcham SA
arrived in 1850 on board the JANE
0ccupation = Accountant, Consul for France and Switzerland, Businessman
Resided in Queenstown, Pt Adelaide, & Mitcham
Religion = Cof E
Married 18th Feb 1851 in Adelaide SA to Susan Elizabeth nee ALLEN
born c1825 in Cheltenham GLs ENGLAND
died on 3rd Feb 1912 in Mitcham SA
Children =
Alice (1852-),
Helen Hocc (1854-1947),
Clara (1855-),
Horace Jas (1857-1936),
Ernest Henry (1859-1870),
Laura (1860-1948),
Harriett (1862-),
Hilda Maud (1864-1876),
Halder Alfred (1868-1888)
If it is correct that James didn't marry, then the above cannot be him. :-\
Added....just been reading everything again.....was ir Horace who didn't marry. not James?
-
Been searching for any more information on the Page men.....only thing I found is a fleeting reference to Horace Page which fits with him having been a clerk at McClaren Wharf, Port Adelaide........
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1199337?searchTerm=Horace+Page
-
Some more digging around in records, Ian.....this may well be the death of Mary Eliza Downey/Martin who married a Richard William Norman in 1878
Mary Eliza NORMAN aged 84 and married of Mile End died 24th Aug 1918 at Mile End
Husband = William NORMAN
Ref = Hin 421/176
-
The marriage of the other daughter of Mary Eliza Downey/Martin......
George CRUICKSHANK aged 29 and single married Theresa MARTIN aged 25 and single on 29th July 1885 at Christ Church, North Adelaide.
Fathers = Thomas CRUICKSHANK & Frederic Charles MARTIN
Ref = Ade 144/316
And this looks like the first marriage of her son Francis.....
Frank MARTIN aged 21 and single married Isett POOLE aged 22 and single on 25th Apr 1878 at the Residence of Mrs Poole, Adelaide.
Fathers = Fredk MARTIN & George POOLE
Ref = Ade 115/298
......dee
-
Excellent work Dee
I had only deaths to 1916 and could not find her.
Ian should be a happychappy
Jenn
-
Ian and Jenn,
I am following up the grandchildren of Mary Eliza Downey and Frederick Martin, but there's too much information to put on here.
When I have finished getting it together, I'll email it to you, Ian. :D
.....dee
-
Okay Dee will leave that be for you do to, I will do the Hutton's in Tasmania up to 1899 though as that is the extent of my index.
Jenn
-
Jenn....slightly off topic.....didn't realise you had the actual Tasmanian Index to 1899.
Might have a few requests at some stage......
-
Dee........you just ask away...........Jenn (only wishing for the next lot maybe a christmas gift hey santa)
-
Fingers crossed for you, Jenn.
Here's the death of Francis Martin's first wife.....
Isett MARTIN aged 38 and married of Grange died on 14th Feb 1896 at Grange.
Husband = Frank MARTIN
Ref = PtA 233/157
-
Ian is indeed a VERY happy chappy - and in my opinion Jenn and Dee deserve a special Rootschat title, perhaps Super-Marquessate :)
Without your interest and hard work I would know next to nothing about the Downey family's life in Australia, and I would not have picked up on the fact that three male members of the Page family arrived in South Australia in the 1850s.
That's my next goal ...
-
....and those male Pages are proving hard to link and find....... :(
but I'm sure we'll keep looking.....
.....dee
-
Good morning Dee and Ian
Now Ian has asked about the fathers name not being on the index, Dee does that mean it won't be on the actual marriage certificate, thats my take on it.
A copy of it should have witness's which might prove invaluable.
Ian, you can get a copy a fair bit cheaper that the Sa bdm section by using SAGHS
http://www.saghs.org.au/
Jenn
-
Jenn.....you are right.
Ian, South Australian Indexes are marvellous, as they give you nearly as much information as the actual certificates. If a parent's name isn't listed in the index, then it will not be on the certificate.
The only extra things you are likely to get on a marriage certificate are the names of the witnesses, the name of the officiating minister or registrar, and possibly the occupation of those marrying.
This is another time when I wish I lived closer to the city, because we can see our certificates on microfiche without having to purchase them. :-\
.....dee
-
This is another time when I wish I lived closer to the city, because we can see our certificates on microfiche without having to purchase them
Dee do you know if they are available outside of South Australia?
Jenn
-
I have no idea on that, Jenn. :-\
-
The link you sent of passenger lists of ships arriving in SA is amazing - so detailed - but as you say the 1850 entry for the 'Jane' poses a few questions. There was no James Page listed among the passengers- though I suspect that the list is incomplete - so few names - maybe only cabin passengers were listed. Interestingly, though, there is a Thomas Page listed, and my ancestor had a son called Thomas, listed in 1841 as a grocer, aged 15 (the same age as James was supposed to be in 1841 according to my earlier unattributed source. Further, I found a personal ad in the South Australian Advertiser (21 June 1861) in which a James Page of Port Adelaide asks for information regarding the present address of one Thomas Page. The plot, as they say, thickens!
Ian
-
And Ian, I am having all kinds of problems finding anything that looks definitely like any of the Pages :-\
I have another large file to send you that you may like to look at.....you may see something that you'll pick up on that I don't.
.....dee
-
Dee -
You are very kind, but don't spend too much of your valuable time on this. You have helped me already so much. It's odd, with the Page family - wherever they appear, from the 18th through to the 20th century, there is something elusive about their movements. I don't know whether I believe in genetically transmitted behaviour patters - but the Pages seem almost programmed to disappear and to have major fallings out! My mother, born a Page, was the exception (of course) ;)
I'd be most interested to see the file you mention
Best wishes IAN
-
I hope you don't mind me butting in here but was wondering if you have a Henry PAGE and Margaret DONALD in your tree. They were married on 02/02/1842, NSW, Australia and had 12 children. Can give more info if you are interested.
Newbe
-
Hi Newbe -
Of course I don't mind your contribution! Unfortunately, I don't think your Henry Page is one of mine, though with this family you never know! My ancestor Henry Page of London DID have a son Henry, but he remained in England and died aged 29 of consumption in London. It's always possible that yours may have been a relative, though Page was not an uncommon name. It would be interesting to have the details, to keep on file. I'll PM you my email address IAN
-
Today the transcription of the birth certificate for John Thomas Hutton arrived, and yes , his parents were Catherine Downey and Robert
Thomas Joseph Hutton. I'll email the transcription to Ian.
However, the district is given as Blue Mountains, Victoria, and place as Gluepot. Any Victorians able to explain where that would have been, as it is unknown to me?
I immediately think of Blue Mountains as being in NSW.
Dee
-
Hello there
Dee if you do a google search you get a few "hits" appears to be like a national parl lots of birds and wildlife.
Jenn
-
I've done that Jenn.....but I don 't think that is the same area.......the Gluepot Reserve is in South Australia...... :-\
-
I should have realised you would have done that Dee.
rather odd isn't it.
Jenn
-
Is it possible that the state boundaries may have changed since the 1860s? Or that, at the time when John Thomas Hutton was born, Gluepot may have been administered by the state of Victoria?
Just a thought
-
Ian....just corrected my posting about the certificate......you may have noticed I had the father's name incorrect.
As for boundaries changing.....I don't think so. The area where Gluepot Reserve is would have been quite remote then, and it is flat mallee scrubland. ??? :-\
-
I checked the Pioneer Cd Index for Gluepot being a place of birth for any registration but found nothing.
However I did find interestly enough a number of Huttons born at Blue Mountain
Father John mother Ann Jane Bell
Emily Jane Hutton 1873 BLUE MNTN reg 14672
Annie May Hutton 1877 BLUE MT reg no 20380
William Henry 1883 BLUE reg no 663
Charles Cleaver 1888 reg no 774
Ernest HUTTON born 1888 Blue Mount reg 17835
father U mother Mabel Florence Hutton
so now my fertile imagination has Robert Joseph Hutton taking his brood off to maybe family connections in this spot before moving on to Tasmania ;D
Jenn
-
Now the certificate transcription gives father of John Thomas as Robert Joseph Hutton. The informant is given as Robert Thomas Hutton - father. ??? ???
Might post a special thread asking for information about Reg district of Glue Pot Blue Mountains, and see if we can get a response from any of the Victorians on board..... :-\
-
Dee, on the NAA there is a WW1 record for William Henry Hutton born 1884 Trentham Victoria. now there is only one recorded birth in Victoria and that is the one just posted. So now wondering where Trentham is in Victoria.
will have to google that ;)
Jenn
-
http://www.visitvictoria.com/displayobject.cfm/objectid.000B3743-EB37-1A64-88CD80C476A90318/
feel we might be at the right place when you read this link,
what do you think Dee and Ian
Jenn
-
Oh very well done indeed, Jenn. i'm sure you've cracked it! And from there the family moved to another gold mining area in Tasmania. :D :D :D
.....dee
-
Another interesting (slightly puzzling) feature of the certificate is the given names of the other Hutton children mentioned:
Where I had Eliza Mary (8 Nov 1857), this certificate has Eliza Warwick. Where I had Robert Francis (18 Jan 1859), the certificate has Robert Seamus. Both of these children had been born in South Australia.
-
I think we seem to be in agreence here.
There are a number of other children born to John and Ann Jane Bell as well and a couple of birth places as Trentham as well.
John Hutton came from Leicester England. (where Robert Joseph Hutton came from Scotland)
Jenn
-
Hi all ;D
I feel I am butting in...so forgive me :)
I was about to add....lots of small settlements in this gold mining area of Victoria. The names of many would have never been gazetted.
Definitely nothing to do with Gluepot Station now Gluepot Reserve owned by Birds Australia. Have visited there. This area has always been in the State of South Australia. Virgin mallee country. Very similar to the remnant vegetation on our mallee farm and along the road verges....but our rainfall is higher so suitable for growing cereal crops.
Cheers
Cando
-
Hi There Cando
Only to happy to have some expert help here not knowing much about this area at all ( Allthough Birds Australia is in my favourites sites ;)
Oh it would be lovely to go there and see Mallee ringniecks in full flight oh sorry thats me off with the pixies
Jenn
-
Another interesting (slightly puzzling) feature of the certificate is the given names of the other Hutton children mentioned:
Where I had Eliza Mary (8 Nov 1857), this certificate has Eliza Warwick. Where I had Robert Francis (18 Jan 1859), the certificate has Robert Seamus. Both of these children had been born in South Australia.
There couldn't be two Robert Huttons married to two Catherine Downeys at the same time with children Robert and Mary, could there? Remembering that the population at that time was not huge!
Cando....certainly not butting in. More help the better...... :D :D
-
Dee are there children with these names in South Australia?
Jenn
-
I'll do some checking, Jenn.......
-
I am double checking everything....will finish tomorrow....eyes now too tired. :-\
.....dee
-
Right……I have double checked all the South Australian records that I can access. The Robert Hutton, pharmacist, that Ian’s contact is telling him was married to Catherine Downey, died in 1914 in Norwood, South Australia aged 83, meaning he was born around 1831. However, the record says he was a single man.
BISA also has the following for him…..
Robert HUTTON, unmarried and born in England around 1831 ENG, arrived in 1849 on the NAVARINO, and died on the 23rd of May, 1914 at Norwood SA. He was buried in West Terrace Cemetery.
He resided in Adelaide and Norwood.
On top of that the only children born in South Australia to a Robert Hutton up to 1906 were those we know about born to Robert Joseph Downey and Catherine Downey.
Robert Joseph Hutton’s father on the marriage certificate is Robert Hutton……on John Thomas Hutton’s birth certificate transcription we have Robert Joseph Hutton as father, and Robert Thomas Hutton – father as informant. (Robert Thomas looks like the grandfather of John Thomas to me.)
I personally agree with Ian that his other contact has got it wrong.
.....dee
-
So Dee
what I am thinking you are saying is that the Robert Joseph Hutton who married Catherine Downie might not have been from Scotland?
Iif that is the case the other Hutton's in Blue Mountain might be related.
Jenn
-
No, Jenn. I'm not saying that at all. :D :D
On the Birth Certificate transciption, it has that Robert Joseph Hutton was born in Edinburgh, Scotland.
I was just trying to show that Ian's other contact was wrong in saying that Robert Hutton was a pharmacist who died in South Australia in 1914.
A search of Scottish records might be good for the two Robert Huttons, father and son.
-
oh dear now totally confused
Catherine, I think, married a Scot called Robert Hutton in Adelaide in 1857. [Robert Joseph Hutton, born Edinburgh 28 Jan 1831, coal miner, emigrated to Australia (gold miner) to Victoria – married Catherine Downey 15 Jan 1857 in Adelaide: had 7 children then went to Tasmania (Clerk/accountant). Robert Hutton died 10 Aug 1880 Emu Bay (Burnie) Tasmania]. In 1883 in Emu Bay Catherine remarried: to Barnard Conner (b. 1813) transportee? Conner was 20 years older than Catherine. So, the people mentioned in replies born Emu Bay must surely be descendants of Catherine.
this quote from Ian says different to this
Jenn
-
Think we're both getting confused here, Jenn...... ;D ;D
I'm just backing up what Ian wrote and you quoted.
In an email to me Ian wrote that he's been in contact with a Downey ancestor who lives in WA who is convinced that Robert Hutton, Catherine's husband, was a pharmacist rather than a miner.
I was just trying to back up Ian by proving that the Pharmacist Robert Hutton in South Australia was a different Robert Hutton and the WA contact is in error.
-
Now I understand Dee, I could only go on what was on the board and must admit never thought to check on the pm's from Ian.
Allways go to show the value of certificate over heresay.
Jenn
-
Sorry, Dee and Jenn, that I haven't been able to get to my computer sooner: I'm afraid work got in the way! I think that you have, between you, shown conclusively that Catherine's husband was the miner, and that my previous contact in WA was mistaken in believing that he was the pharmacist. Easy mistake to make, though, and I quite agree with your view that there is no substitute for original records.
Robert Joseph Hutton died 10 Aug 1880, aged 49, Emu Bay (now called Burnie) Tasmania. In 1883 (22 May) in Emu Bay Catherine remarried: to Barnard Conner (b. 1813, 20 years older than Catherine). I haven't yet found Catherine's death, but I will!
Ian
-
I think that you have, between you, shown conclusively that Catherine's husband was the miner, and that my previous contact in WA was mistaken in believing that he was the pharmacist. Easy mistake to make, though, and I quite agree with your view that there is no substitute for original records.
All Dee's work here I only added to the confusion ;D, but Dee proved it all.
Jenn
-
Hi yelkcub
This is the details from the 'Sacramento' disposal list.
'Sacramento' sailed from Deptford 25th December 1852, wrecked on Point Lonsdale 26th April 1853
Catherine Downey Age: 20 From: Middlesex Religion: CofE Could Read & Write Occupation: Domestic Servant Employed 30th April 1853 by Mr Williams, Brunswick St Term: 1 mth Pay: 26 with rations
Mary Downey Age: 18 From: Middlesex Religion: CofE could read & write Occupation: Domestic Servant Employed 30th April 1853 by Mr Bancroft, William St, Collingwood Term: 1mth Pay: 20 with rations
Regards
Genni
-
Thanks for that, Genni. I had no idea what the sisters' employment was after their landing in South Australia - I knew the dates of their subsequent marriages, and the fact that they had uncles already in the Adelaide area. Does this mean that their Australian employment was arranged before they left the UK, or did Australians looking for employees 'meet the boat' as it were and pick out likely candidates?
Best wishes from rainy Cornwall
Ian
-
Hi Ian
As far as I'm aware the employment was arranged when they arrived. I don't think they left the ship until their employment was procured.
Catherine & Mary spent at least the 1mth in Victoria because that's how long their contract was for.
Regards
Genni
-
Thanks again - I'm left wondering why, since the sisters had uncles already settled in Adelaide, they did not sail there directly.
Best wishes
Ian
-
As they came to Australia as asssted immigrants it would indicate either they couldn't afford the fare or saved their money and came assisted and then were obliged to work a period time perhaps?
Jenn
-
I'm sure you're right about an obligation to work - though the sisters were in Victoria barely two months before they jumped onto the 'Onkaparinga' and set sail for Adelaide.
Ian
-
I am Catherine Hutton's (nee Downey) great great Granddaughter through her son John Thomas' line. I would be very interested in any information about Catherine's parents, siblings and ancestors if anyone has this information.
I have recently embarked on this family history due to my mothers grave illness (she is a Hutton) and I am keen for any Hutton information.
I don't know how Catherine's husband Robert got from Edinburgh to Melbourne then Adelaide......any clues?
I have attached a photo of Catherine's husband Robert Joseph Hutton.
Many thanks.
-
Hello thereSiouxsie
Welcome to Roots Chat
Ian (Yelkcub) is going to be so very happy to hear from you.
That's a lovely old photo when was it taken?
If you read through the postings you will get a lot of background for Catherine especially reply no 14
kind thoughts Jenn
-
Welcome indeed, Siouxsie....
Ian surely will be happy to make contact with you.
He can message you on this post, but he can also send you personal messages on here.
You will need to make several posts (I think it might be 3) on this thread or other threads however before you can send him a personal message.
Just ask if you need any help.
......dee
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks for the welcome. Not sure when the photo was taken....I have only just received it from a step aunt and there is no date on it.
I will read through all of the posts and glean as much information as I can.
No doubt we will talk again soon,
Susie
-
Dear Dee,
Many thanks for the welcome. Can't wait for contact from Ian.......from my reading of the posts he is the Downey/Page connection.
I have noticed that both you and Jenn have great photos on the side of your posts.....how did you do that?
Many thanks for your offer of help....I am certain to take up your offer during this journey!
Great to be on board,
Susie
-
OK Susie.
I'll send you a Personal Message shortly with the steps for adding a picture to your profile. You will have to answer me on this thread though, if you have any problems.
You find the link to your pesonal messages in the top right hand corner of the page.
Off to write you one now.....
....dee
-
Well done Susie.....did you even need my instructions? ;D ;D
With three posts you may now be able to send personal message yourself. That's where we exchange things like email addresses, as only the people concerned can access them.
Dee
-
Dear Dee,
Started to poke around and then read your instructions.....a collaborative attempt! I'll now attempt a personal message!
Susie
-
.....can't work out how to send a personal message!!!!
Susie
-
.....spoke too soon......have worked it out.
Susie
-
love that name Blackadder!!!!!
Jenn
-
Hi Susie -
Good to meet you, and many thanks for the wonderful photo. Although I have very little information on the Huttons, I do have quite a lot on Catherine, Robert's wife, and I'll be more than happy to send you the file. It's quite a story, sad and thrilling, parts of like a soap opera! If you PM me with your email address I'll send it to you as an attachment.
With best wishes from Cornwall
Ian
-
I have read through all of your extensive research (and added pertinent information to my files) and I thought I would add the extra that i have.
Robert Joseph Hutton (who married Catherine Downey) was born 28/01/1831 in Edinburgh.
Their son, John Thomas (married Ellen Kelleher) also has a daughter Mary Victoria in 1886
Robert and Catherine’s sons that died at Beaconsfield David Downey Hutton ,in 1893 and Robert Francis Hutton, in 1895 both died of Phthisis (Miner's lung disease) ...more commonly called Black Lung disease.
....and a photo of John Thomas Hutton (son of Catherine) and his son John Thomas (Jack) who was my grandfather.
The other is a drawing of the wreck of the Sacramento when it was used as a convict prison boat in Port Phillip Bay.
I think it's bedtime now.
Susie
-
Susie
we still have these three children born to Robert Hutton and Catherine Downey unaccounted for after their births
Jane Catherine 1867 Blackwood reg no 881
Teresa Warwick 1869 Blackwood reg no 20749
Mary Victoria 1874 Blackwood reg no 795
It is possible they died and were not registered ( but not that likely)
Susie do you have any further knowledge on these three ladies?
They could have remained unmarried and died as elderdly ladies somewhere in Tasmania too
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
I have not yet been able to locate anything on Jane or Teresa, but i am about to follow up on Mary Victoria. She married a Knight (Jim I think) from Balldale in Vic and ran a farm in Corowa NSW.....my mother affectionately calls her Aunty Mary Knight and I can vaguely remember her as a small child when we visited.
She had several children, one called Ted (Edward?) who still lives in Corowa.
She started the exodus from Tasmania, as my grandfather met my grandmother whilst staying with Aunty Mary, and my great grandfather spent time with them as well after he left Tasmania, before heading to Sydney then Inverell.
I haven't yet started on the Victorian records.......they are not as easy online as NSW and I will make a trip to the library this week to check.
The real mystery for me is Ellen Kelleher.......where did she come from and where did she go. The family myth is that she just disappeared one day......and my grandfather never mentioned his brother Robert. I believe Ellen was dead by 1912 as my grandfather remarried then and his status is listed as widower.
.....are you perhaps a relative?
Susie
-
No Susie not a relative just been trying to help Ian with his research.
I will l have a look for Ellen Kelleher.
Jenn
-
1930/1936 Electorall Roll
Hume district Howlong linving at Balldale
Edward Knight farmer
JAmes Bernard Knight farmer
Mary Victoria Knight home duties
Jenn
-
Great, Jenn and Susie.... :D :D
The story continues to unfold....... 8)
Susie, there are many Rootschatters who respond to people's requests for information who are in no way related......they just help because that is a big part of what Rootschat is about. :D :D
It's just the best family history community..... :D :D
......dee
-
Have just spoken to my mother and she tells me that Mary Victoria Knight (nee Hutton) had the following children
Darcy
Allan
Claire
Bernard
Teddy (Edward)
Marnie
Teddy is still alive and lives in Corowa and she thinks that Marnie may still be living.
I'll keep on the trail.
Susie
-
Just spoken with my grat uncle Teddy Knight, son of Mary Victoria Knight (nee Hutton) and he is going to send me a heap of stuff on this line of the family.
he told me that he was born in 1925 and
Darcy was 12 years older (married and had 6 kids)
Allan was 10 years older (married and had 6 girls)
Claire was 7 years older (married and had 6 kids)...married a Sydney Doctor named Horecroft?
Bernard was 5 years older and never married
Teddy married late and has no children
Marnie was 10 years younger and married Tommy Roper from Tawonga Vic and has 6 kids.
Teddy and Marnie are the only two still living.
He also talked about Robert Francis Hutton born 1891 to John Thomas and Ellen Kelleher. Apparently he was a well heeled butcher who married a Sydney girl nicknamed "Paddy" because she came from Paddington and after she died he moved to Queensland and set up a chain of butcher shops. he apparently remarried in Queensland, and died up there.
More on Mary Victoria and her father, John Thomas. In his obit (which I have) it talks about him being a good boxer and a belt winner in Tasmania. It also says that in his younger days he was a TRAPEZE artist!!!!! Teddy Knight was a professional trapeze and high wire artist who travelled around the world with circuses and when i asked him if his grandfather taught him he said it was mainly his mother Mary Victoria's teachings, but he remembers his grandfather performing.
His obit also talks of his children (he died 2/6/1946) and only three children are mentioned : Robert (who had gone to Qld by that stage), Mary and John (Jack.....my grandfather), so the 4th child, Frederick James born 1898 stills remains a mystery.
Looks like i have a heap of following up to do here.....and I await Uncle Teddy parcel with anticipation.
Susie
-
There are 6 entries for Roper in Tawonga, Victoria in the White Pages
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/resSearch.do;jsessionid=062CA54B2548DF1CC4F6074D98607859
Cheers, J
-
Please clarify somthing for me. The Mary Victoria Hutton you are talking about is NOT the daughter of Robert Hutton and Catherine Downey?
I gather you mean she is their grandaugther?
Yet you said this
I have not yet been able to locate anything on Jane or Teresa, but i am about to follow up on Mary Victoria.
Am a tad confused here.
Jenn
-
Sorry for the confusion.....yep I skipped a generation.....she is the grand daughter.
Susie
-
Oh that's sorted ;D
Have you anything on the three daughters at all?
Now then
The real mystery for me is Ellen Kelleher.......where did she come from and where did she go.
I guess she remarried after the hubby's death mmmmmmmmn
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
That was my first thought that she had remarried, and as great grandfather moved across to Victoria before heading to Inverell, I followed that trail and I bought a marriage certificate from Victoria that I thought might be her, but not the right Ellen.
My great grand father remarried in 1912 and his certificate states that he was a widower. I have just bought another certificate from Victoria.....this time death, but alas....wrong Ellen again. I have put in a request on RAOGK to have the deaths checked in Tas after the Pioneers Index and I am waiting to hear back.
Eliza Mary, Teresa Warwick and Mary Victoria (Catherine's daughters) ....I only have their birth dates.....don't know if they married/moved states/died young....will need to go to the library or genealogy centre to follow them up.
Susie
-
Susie
I have just posted up a new topic looking for someone with the Tasmanaian Federation Index I know there are a couple or more out there.
So your Great grandfather was the son of Ellen Kelleher and John Tomas Kelleher.(so to sort my mind out ..it does get a bit scrambled from time to time ;)
Jenn
-
Sure was.
My grandfather, John Thomas was the son of Ellen Kelleher (who doesn't appear to have been born anywhere!!!) and John Thomas Hutton.
Many thanks for the Tasmanian Federation posting. Much appreciated. :-*
On another topic (and family).....where would i head to to find information about a location called Billy Bong Plains NSW which is where my great great grandfather McAuley was born in 1860......I think it must be in the borders region as he is not listed in the NSW BDM's?
Susie
-
I am guessing you have the marriage certificate? Tassie certs don't let on a lot do they.
Did she just leave you GGF and dissappear into the night..... when and where was their last child born?
Try a google search for BillyBong allthough goodness knows what sort of hits you will get on that ;)
Jenn
-
Hi all
Mary Victoria HUTTON (born Blackwood) married Lionel HARRIS (born: Poland) in Victoria 1894 Reg: 6681
Mary Victoria HARRIS died Parkville 1950 aged 75 Reg: 730
Parents listed as Robert Hutton & Katherine Jane DOUNEY.
Susie, don't pay to search online in the Victorian records, we at rootchat can help some of have the CDRoms.
Plus I regularly go to the State Library & PROV, so you only have to PM me if you want something looked up.
Regards
Genni
-
Susie...there is a reference to a Billy Bong station...
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=heritage.show&id=4309624
Scroll down to Historical Notes...and read ;D
Can we have your gg grandfather McAULEY names please - and his parents as well - if possible?
Cheers :)
Cando
-
Oh Good work Genni ..... I missed that one entirely.
Yes Susie as Gennie says we can search indexs first beofre you have to start paying for information
Jenn
-
Hello IAN and Susie
since Genni has found one of the Hutton/Downey Childrens marriages
here are some children
father Lionel Harris mother Mary Victoria Hutton
Rose Vivian Harris born 1895 Richmond reg no 32916
Marcus Harris born 1900 Port Melbourne regno 5682
died aged 65 in 1966 at Mildura reg no 17617
death for
Lionel HARRIS died aged 65 in 1932 at Flemington reg no 5549
father Isaac Harris mother Miriam unknown
feel this is his death cause the family lived at Flemington by the Electoral Rolls.
Jenn
-
I am amazed at your generosity of time, resources, patience, encouragement and enthusiasm for families that aren't yours......thank you. You have restored my faith in random acts of kindness......something I practice but haven't seen much of lately.
I have entered the information about Mary Victoria......many thanks Genni and Jenn.
i don't have Ellen and John Thomas Hutton's marriage certificate, but it is listed in the Tasmanian Index and she is listed as the mother of his four children. The last child Frederick James Hutton was born in 1898 and g-grandfather remarried as a widower in 1912. Can't seem to find anything on Frederick either.
The family legend is that she left him.......my grandfather spent a lot of time with the catholic nuns whilst she was alive (I believe he lived with them for a while).....which is why my mother's name is Rosary....a comment worthy name for a C of E.!
I did a Google search but I am uncertain if BillyBong Station relates to BillyBong Plains.......I'll make some enquiries with the local libraries.
On another family......I have records that my great aunt recorded before she died listing her mother's birth.....she has the date and place, but when i looked in the Queensland BDM's she isn't listed. She apparently was born at Palmer River, Qld during the Gold Rush up there. Would births from there not have been officially recorded?
Susie
-
On another family......I have records that my great aunt recorded before she died listing her mother's birth.....she has the date and place, but when i looked in the Queensland BDM's she isn't listed. She apparently was born at Palmer River, Qld during the Gold Rush up there. Would births from there not have been officially recorded?
Give us her details and will check the index's.
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks.....I am trying to verify my great aunt's records.
Her name is Annie Flora McAuley and she (according to g-aunt) was born on 24/11/1879 at Palmer River QLD.
I also checked the NSW records and she isn't listed there.
Susie
-
Dear Jenn,
Her name is Annie Flora McAuley and she (according to g-aunt) was born on 24/11/1879 at Palmer River QLD.
Susie
Hi Susie,
This looks like it could be her :)
1879/C4700 McAulay Annie Flora Father - Alexander Mother - Elizabeth Mary Austan
Raylen
-
Beat me too it Rayleen ;) ;) Well Done
no doubt the birth being so late in the year it was not officially registered until the new year.
deleted by Jenn as she did not read what she had written.
Jenn
-
Many thanks Raylene,
It now seems that her mother's maiden name has been spelt in a variety of interesting ways....from Anschaw, to Anschau to Austan now.
-
Not often I get to beat you Jenn ;D
Date of birth and year of registration both 1879...... seems
just the spelling of the surname is different.
Raylen
-
her mother's maiden name has been spelt in a variety of interesting ways
I'm sure this is done just to make life interesting
for us people researching ;D
Keeps us all on our toes!
Raylen
-
.....I agree....just checking the various spellings on NSW BDM......can't work out if it's illiteracy, bad hand writing or interpretation, or just using variations to confuse creditors etc!
Susie
-
I would think it was more to do with the interpretation of the handwriting by the transcriber. Just my two bobs' worth ;D
Cheers
Cando
-
I Agree with you there Cando!
Susie
If you would like more help with McAulay Annie Flora it would probably be more helpfull ( Is that correct grammar??) to start of a new thread so more folk will see it and help as well and also the chance of any other descendants seeing it too ;D
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks for the suggestion. I had to work out how to start a thread......but I got there after some poking around and have now added my first post. Let's see how it goes.
Susie :-*
-
Good morning all
Susie, I’m glad you found the story of Catherine and Mary Eliza Downey interesting – their life in London and their migration to Australia. I owe so much of the information to the wonderful help I have received – mostly from members of this forum but also from others in Australia … a couple in WA who descend from Catherine’s brother, the community historian of Mitcham SA, a lovely lady in Melbourne: people who have gone way out of their way to offer lookups, help, advice. I have researched other branches of my family, but this has been my first project concerning Australia, and I can honestly say that I have never experienced anything like the friendliness I have met with among Australian family researchers.
At the moment I’m back with the Page family. The Mitcham community historian sent me, among other things, a newspaper cutting about one of James Page’s daughters, Laura (Mrs HP Wilson) actually a cousin of Catherine and Mary Eliza. The cutting mentioned that certain family documents brought to Australia by James Page suggested that the family were related to the owners of the great Page estates in Middlesex. The so-called ‘Page Millions’ case was a long-running story in the 19th century. It seems that the last of the Pages, Henry who died in 1829, was swindled out of his estate by rascally lawyers (are there such people?). Laura was intending to travel to London to look more closely into the matter.
With best wishes from blustery Cornwall
Ian
-
Ian I am so pleased you contacted the Mitcham community historian....I knew you would receive help. :) I am interested to know....were either Pages Road or Hoggs Road named after your family?
Link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,332947.msg2132220.html#msg2132220
Cheers
Cando
-
Hi Cando -
Indeed. Pages Road was named after James Page who lived in the house now known as Rust Hall from the late 1860s until his death in 1913. James's daughter Helen married Lewis Hogg - the road being either named after Lewis or his father Benjamin - and the couple lived in a house called Haverhill (or Haverhill House) in what is now Hoggs Road. The Mitcham authorities can't trace who named this house, but Haverhill is a name important to the Page family (for reasons I haven't yet discovered). James's brother, who arrived in Australia with James on board the 'Jane' in 1851, was Horace Haverhill Page.
Your suggestion about the Mitcham community historian was yet another example of the wonderful help I have received in this thread ... and it has given me a strong desire to pay a visit to Mitcham one of these days!
Best wishes
Ian
-
Mitcham is a lovely area...the roads you mention are very familiar to me....I lived in the area for 22 years ;D
Cheers
Cando
-
I have published the work I have done over the past 2 months on my family and my husbands so my family can look at it (and make corrections and additions).
I must say it has been a whirlwind 2 months......and I have found more from the rootswebber community than I thought possible.
It is available at
http://www.macfamilytree.com/login.aspx?treeid=4798
and requires a password.
Please contact me with a personal message if you would like to access it.
Catherine and Robert are down towards the bottom of the family page and if you click on each you get further information.
Susie
-
Quote taken from yelkcub
Catherine, I think, married a Scot called Robert Hutton in Adelaide in 1857. [Robert Joseph Hutton, born Edinburgh 28 Jan 1831, coal miner, emigrated to Australia (gold miner) to Victoria – married Catherine Downey 15 Jan 1857 in Adelaide: had 7 children then went to Tasmania (Clerk/accountant). Robert Hutton died 10 Aug 1880 Emu Bay (Burnie) Tasmania]. In 1883 in Emu Bay Catherine remarried: to Barnard Conner (b. 1813) transportee? Conner was 20 years older than Catherine. So, the people mentioned in replies born Emu Bay must surely be descendants of Catherine.
Can I ask where you got the information about Robert's DOB.......and as he is my ancestor how do I now go forward into Scottish territory as up to now I haven't ventured out of Australian sources.
Susie.....who really is going to get to the housework! :D ;)
-
I have pm'd Susie some url's to help her on her way in Scotland.
Cando
-
Hi Susie,
On the National Archives of Australia site there is a record for a John Thomas Hutton next of kin being Mary Knight [sister]. There are 21 Pages to veiw.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
Just click onto search as guest and type in John Hutton Tas. This should take you to his record. May give you some information on the Hutton family.
Johngirl
-
Hi Susie also found this.
From a website of people that lived in the mining town of Warratah Tasmania.
HUTTON, Frederick James b.1889 - Waratah,Tasmania,Australia
HUTTON, John Thomas b.1889 - Waratah,Tasmania,Australia
HUTTON, John Thomas m.1886 - Emu Bay(Burnie)Tasmania,Australia
HUTTON, Robert Francis b.1891 - Waratah,Tasmania,Australia
HUTTON, Vida May b.1911 -
http://home.iprimus.com.au/waratah/waratah/index3.htm
This is where your Frederick James Hutton may have ended up.
Johngirl
-
Many thanks.....I will follow up this lead......I am constantly amazed at how you all know these sites!
Susie
-
Hi Susie,
On the National Archives of Australia site there is a record for a John Thomas Hutton next of kin being Mary Knight [sister]. There are 21 Pages to veiw.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
Just click onto search as guest and type in John Hutton Tas. This should take you to his record. May give you some information on the Hutton family.
Johngirl
Dear Johngirl,
These are my grandfather's war records......he mainly talks about his flirting and war stuff!!! I still remember him as a dapper ladies man as my grandmother died when I was one month old.
Susie
-
Hi Susie,
Sorry I suppose you have already seen those then. :-[
I also have my fathers war records and my grandfathers,they are a great keepsake to have.
Its amazing what you find in them.
Johngirl.
-
Hi Susie,
Sorry I suppose you have already seen those then. :-[
I also have my fathers war records and my grandfathers,they are a great keepsake to have.
Its amazing what you find in them.
Johngirl.
Dear Johngirl,
Yes, I have a copy of them, and it is amazing what you find in them.....as you say they are a fabulous keepsake. I am also really fortunate to have a copy of his War Diaries which are held by the Mitchell Library. I was fortunate that they photocopied them for me and they are precious....in both senses of the word.
Many thanks for the thought.
Susie
-
Hi all
Theresa Warwick HUTTON married Nicholas Hocking WOOLCOCK in Mt Margaret WA 1898 Ref: 771/1898
Theresa Warwick WOOLCOCK died aged 97 16th Feb 1967 Kalgoorlie buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Seven Day Adventist Section BA Grave0143
Regards
Genni
-
Hi all
Theresa Warwick HUTTON married Nicholas Hocking WOOLCOCK in Mt Margaret WA 1898 Ref: 771/1898
Theresa Warwick WOOLCOCK died aged 97 16th Feb 1967 Kalgoorlie buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Seven Day Adventist Section BA Grave0143
Regards
Genni
Genni,
You are a gem....many thanks....I will put her details in my files now.
Susie
-
Hi all ;D
I feel I am butting in...so forgive me :)
I was about to add....lots of small settlements in this gold mining area of Victoria. The names of many would have never been gazetted.
Definitely nothing to do with Gluepot Station now Gluepot Reserve owned by Birds Australia. Have visited there. This area has always been in the State of South Australia. Virgin mallee country. Very similar to the remnant vegetation on our mallee farm and along the road verges....but our rainfall is higher so suitable for growing cereal crops.
Cheers
Cando
Wow, I have just located Glue Pots in the Victorian Gold district :
Glue Pots (near Kilmore) Mitchell ~ 144.96 ~ -37.3 (Latitude and Longitude)
Susie
-
Is it anywhere near the place I thought it might be in reply no 72?
Jenn
-
Doesn't seem to be in the immediate vicinity. They are 68 kms apart ....here is a link to a map
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Kilmore%20trentham%20google%20maps&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wl
Susie
-
link not working?
Jenn
-
I went to google maps and put in Kilmor, Vic and Trentham, Vic .....hope that works. :D
Susie
-
Hi everyone –
You haven’t seen me in these parts for a while. Meantime, I’ve been making steady progress in my research into the Page family. You will remember that James, Horace and William arrived in SA together aboard ‘Jane’ in 1850. Working on the Page family from the UK end, I’m interested in a Charles Page who just might be a brother of the Page men’s father, Henry. In 1841 five – yes FIVE of Charles’s sons set off for Launceston, Tasmania aboard ‘Andromeda’, arriving 30 Aug 1841. One of the brothers, Henry Page, moved on again in 1845 and sailed to Adelaide on board the ‘William’. Henry Page was born 17 July 1811 in Kent, and died 1893, Wilcannia NSW) he was married in England to Sarah [Pankhurst] and had several children, one of whom was Charles Robert (1846-1932). I think his first wife died in Adelaide 1849, after which Henry married again, to Martha Eliza Jane Taylor, and had more offspring.
All I would like to know about this Henry Page is whether there are any other details available for him in the SA directories – particularly his occupation. I came across one reference that said he lived at Magill.
It is too much of a coincidence that Henry Page had settled in South Australia well before 1851 and that is where his cousins (if they were his cousins) chose to migrate to. I suppose I am looking for anything more that might link Henry Page and his cousins.
Grateful as ever for any help or advice
Ian
-
Ian,
The only information in BISA about Henry Page is the same as what you seem to have, Ian....except perhaps that it says he was a resident of Magill.
.....dee
-
Dear Ian,
I see your search for the Page boys is progressing in leaps and bounds. Just thought I would pass on some information (or family myth) about Catherine.
In your history of Catherine that you sent me you stated "We note that Francis (Junior) and Catherine were not present, which ties in with the fact that Catherine was living with her grandfather, Henry Page, in 1851. She may already have been living with her grandfather at the time her mother and siblings entered the Dartford Union workhouse in late 1849."
Well, I have been reading a letter I found in some family papers written by a great, great aunt who says that Catherine told her she was educated in France as a girl. I obviously have no way of verifying this, but this gg aunt talks about how educated the family were and how she visited Blackwood in the Victorian Goldfields as a young girl and photographed a library Robert Hutton kept there.
She also says that Robert Hutton was the editor of a Melbourne Newspaper and went out to report on the shipwreck, where he met Catherine Downey and fell in love. This letter also says she was half protestant Irish.....I am presuming that is her father's side.
Hope I can find some way of verifying this information.....but I found it delightful.
Have a fabulous day,
Susie
-
Hi Susie -
It is indeed a lovely story, and in my experience all family stories have some basis in fact. Downey, after all, is an Irish name, and Francis Downey's father is rather a mysterious character, isn't he? As to Catherine being educated in France - the Page family had some French connection (James Page, Catherine's uncle, claimed to have been educated in France ... so who knows? I'm hoping that when I find Henry Page's brothers, I can work out who it was arranged James's education and his later spell in Germany. And that middle name of Catherine's mother, Teresa - very unusual name for a Protestant English child to be given ... unless she were named for someone, a family relative or friend.
As to having a great day, this great day is nearly over ... just time for a pint of Guinness. Ah!
Ian
-
Dear Ian,
Interesting that her uncle was educated in France.....it would be delightful if this story is true.
Ahhh, a Guinness....I'm just about to have my 2nd coffee for the morning before fully starting my day.
Susie
-
Ian, as you say some stories have a basis of truth in them, but from editor with a library etc to a miner interesting stories. I wonder if you or someone in the family have the pictures the great aunt took Susie?
now Ian
on the Tasmanian Archives Site
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/nameindexes
you will see census records one of the very few remaining in Australia and you will note a Henry Page you can order a copy of these records from the Archives. May be of some help to you.
kind thoughts Jenn
whose mother had told her we were related to a famous bushranger and no no way at all. ( family tales hey)
-
Dear Jenn,
Unfortunately not....in her letter she talks about how the photos had gone missing years ago. Robert's father was a silk mercer in Scotland so maybe he was an educated man who caught the mining bug. He is listed as a clerk around his death. More mysteries for me to investigate.
Susie
-
Well, perhaps the idea of Robert as a newspaper editor falling in love with a shipwreck victim sounds like a piece of romantic imagination - but a miner with a library is not so far-fetched. From the photos I've seen of Mr Hutton, he looks an intelligent sort, evan a Robert Louis Stevenson lookalike!
But Catherine's story of an education in France - might not be strictly true, but possibly retains a memory of others in the family with a French connection. One of the people I'm looking at as a possible brother of Henry Page spent time in his youth in Holland and France ... as James Page claimed to have done.
Many thanks for the information received on Henry and family so far. The Tasmanian census is promising - and amazing that they are prepared to email information from their surviving census free of charge. An example to others!
I'm still hoping something will turn up to show acquaintance between James and the Henry (possibly his cousin) who arrived from Tasmania in 1845 on the 'William'.
Ever hopeful ...
Ian
-
Good morning,
I thought I would put in a quick post before I head up to Sydney to see my parents and lunch with friends. Not looking forward to the drive in the rain though!
I have just re-read this very long and thorough thread and realised that we haven't completed the circle for Catherine Downey. We know she remarried Barnard Connor on 22 May 1883 after Robert died in 1880. It also appears that Barnard was 20 years older than her and had been born in Ireland. There is no listing of him as a convict though.
Their deaths aren't listed in the Tasmanian Online index which only goes to 1899, so is there anyone out there who can lookup the Federation Tasmanian Index for their deaths....or maybe they went to Victoria.
It would be great to "finish" Catherine as we have such a rich history of her already.
Cheers
Susie
-
Could this be a possible death for Catherine?
From Vic BDM
CONNOR Cath Hutton
Died 1919 age 85 years Fton (Frankston or Flemington ???)
Father and Mother - Unknown
Reg 1787
Raylen
-
That is a very interesting find there Raylen, makes one wonder.
also found this death and please excuse me if it has allready been mentioned.
Mary Victoria Harris died in 1950 aged 75 at Pville reg no 730
father Robert Hutton mother Katherine Jane Douney
Edit by Jenn I see it was found in reply number 124 by Genni and I gave kids a wee bit after but no connections made back then cause we didn't know where Catherine Downey/Hutton/Connor died.
Jenn
-
on the 1914 Electoral Rolls for Victoria
living at 17 Marshall Street, Flemington
Mary Victoria Harris home duties
Lionel Harris agent
so searched a bit further
and also living at the same address
Catherine Connor home duties.
Jenn
-
Oh well done, Jenn and Raylen.
Catherine Hutton Connor's death certificate could be interesting, though it obviously doesn't have her parents on it.
.....dee
-
a bit more
Rose Vivian HARRIS married Norman Andrew Johnson in 1923 in Victoria reg no 3845
deaths in Victoria
Henry Lionel JOHNSON died aged 42 in 1967 at Mildura
father Norman Andrew Johnson mother Vivien Rose Harris
Norman Andrew JOHNSON died aged 56 in 1957 at Mildura reg no 22494
father Henry Albert Johnson mother Emily Edith Lehman
Jenn
-
Genies,
Aren't you amazing......Catherine's circle is now complete. Many thanks. :) :) :)
I have to assume that if she was living with her daughter, then Barnard Connor had already died.
I will pass this information on to a couple of rellies I didn't know I had until recently who have asked if I knew when and where she died.
Is there any point in getting her death certificate if her parents aren't listed......I haven't seen an old Victorian death certificate to know what information is on these certificates.
Again, many thanks.......I am so chuffed to complete Catherine's life journey.
Susie ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
The Victorian system of registration is one of the best in the world, there is plenty of useful information on both the certificates and the indexes.
What you'll find on a Victorian certificate of birth, death or marriage:
Births
Date and place of birth; name of child and whether present or not; name of parents (including mother's maiden name); occupation of parents; ages and birthplace of parents; date and place of marriage of parents; previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased; signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; names of witnesses; date and place of registation.
Deaths
Date and place of death; name and surname; occupation of the deceased; sex and age; cause of death, duration of illness, medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased; name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname; signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered, when and where buried, undertaker whom certified; name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial; place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or states (stating which), name of spouse, place of marriage, age at marriage; names and ages of children of the deceased.
Marriages
Date and place of marriage; name and surnames; conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower, stating date of decease of former wife or husband; children by each former marriage; birthplace; occupation; age; residence (present and usual); parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of father; signatures of the parties and witnesses; signature of Minister. Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of the parties is also shown.
With a death certificate I may add that the information is only as god as the informants knowledge. If you get a certificate at leastyou get a burial site too.
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks for such wonderful information. You totally convinced me to purchase a death certificate which I have just done online, and will await it's arrival by post with much anticipation.
Whilst I was online, I had a look for Barnard Connor.......he doesn't apppear to have died in Victoria between 1880 and 1920........wonder if he died in Tasmania after 1899 when the online records cut out?
Cheers
Susie
-
Hello everyone - I've been prevented with pursuing my Pages recently by the need to earn my crust! I just wanted to say well done indeed for tracking down Catherine's records - as you say, knowing that she ended her days living in Victoria with her daughter brings closure to a life filled with incident: she must almost have been a walking history of the early years in Australia. To think of her, escaping from the life her mother led, abandoned to the workhouse and an early grave ... then a shipwreck, a spell in Tasmania and finally back over the water to Victoria.
When I have had time to spare I have been trying (so far with limited success) to try to identify Henry Page's brothers. [for new readers Henry Page was the father of Mary Teresa Page who was Catherine Downey/ Hutton/ Connor's mother]
I will be sure to let you know of any progress
Best wishes
Ian
-
Dear Ian,
Along with a spell in Adelaide, then taking 2 young children to the wilds of the Victorian goldfields and having another 5 children there before trekking across the water to Tasmania.......that is a "big" life. It certainly is a life I could not contemplate living.
Let's hope we can find out about Barnard and what happened to him.
Can this scene of the mine in Waratah be any further from London????
Cheers
Susie
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks for such wonderful information. You totally convinced me to purchase a death certificate which I have just done online, and will await it's arrival by post with much anticipation.
Hi Susie....on Vic BDM you have the option to purchase for $17.50 and immediately download the image. Bit of a trap at times ;) ;D Next time ;D
Cheers
Cando
-
Dear Cando,
I thought that was the case, but didn't see the option.........must have been too excited :D :D :D :D
Cheers
Susie
-
Susie I was pretty sure somewhere along the line that information was relayed to you..never mind won't take long in the mail ;D
I know when you purchase to download you can view the certificate up to a month I think it is, I wonder if you can have a look and see if there is an option to view it if you follow me I am not explaining myself all that well here.
Catherine Downeys life circle was certainly varied but I would imagine full of hardships and sorrows.
A BIG thanks goes to Dee for the enormous amount of work she put into finding out further information for Ian. Rechecking information to make sure "we" were right which contradicted information Ian had been sent.
Jenn
-
Hi
Mary Victoria HARRIS was cremated at Fawkner Crem, date of service 13th January 1950.
Might see if there is an Obit.
regards
Genni
-
Dear Jenn, Dee, Cando, Genni et al,
A very big thank you from me.........I have discovered things I had never dreamed of in such a short time span. I am putting together a pictorial history for my mother for Christmas and have a rich seam of information for her regarding her family which she had never known. (The tragedy of Ellen Keleher included....another thread on the board).
Jenn......i will go and check on the Vic BDM page and see if I can view it.
Again........heartfelt thanks,
Susie
-
I have Catherine Huton Connor's death certificate. :D :D :D
She died on 26th March 1919 at 29 Marshall Street Flemington,(her daughter's house) Melbourne aged 85 years. She died of Cerebral heamorrhage. It appears that she lived in Victoria for a great number of years and where Barnard Connor went is a bit of a mystery. I don't know if he died in Tasmania after 1898, but I couldn't seem to find him in the Victorian BDM. It also appears they had no children as the only children listed are from her marriage to Robert.
She was buried on 27th March 1919 at the New Melbourne General Cemetery.
Cheers
Susie :D
-
Hi Susie
I love getting a cert in the mail. I can never drive the 20km home after collecting the mail....I sit on the side of our back road and have a read. Oh I sound a sad soul :P
Just checked my CD of Transcriptions of Monumental Inscriptions at Melbourne General Cemetery...no Catherine so there is no headstone....just in case you were wondering.
Cheers
Cando
-
Oh Cando know that feeling..... either elation or deflation!!!
Susie
Was Catherine listed asa Widow? and did it say where she was born?
You may allready know this but you can google the street address and hopefully get a picture of the house but nearly 90 years have passed and so might have the house ;)
Jenn
-
Hi Susie
I love getting a cert in the mail. I can never drive the 20km home after collecting the mail....I sit on the side of our back road and have a read. Oh I sound a sad soul :P
Just checked my CD of Transcriptions of Monumental Inscriptions at Melbourne General Cemetery...no Catherine so there is no headstone....just in case you were wondering.
Cheers
Cando
Dear Cando,
Aren't you a delight.....I was just sitting here getting more and more frustrated trying to find her in the New Melbourne Cemetery and the Fawkner Cemetery (which apparently was also called the New Melbourne Cemetery). Now, I will stop searching!
Still curious about Barnard Connor (her son in law reported her death and he didn't know his christian name).
In the same mail box today was a letter from my great uncle (Mary Knight nee Hutton's son) who was the trapeze circus performer. Her has enclosed an ancient letter from the daughter of George Frederick Hutton who was Robert's brother.
Amazing letter in which she states that her dad, aunt and uncle all died in Victoria and another uncle died in New Zealand. Up until now, I had assumed that Robert had migrated out by himself (haven't found his ship yet), but it appears the family came out. This letter also talks about two other children born in Scotland, one dying at 4 years old and one at 5 days.
So, in the same mail delivery, one case closed, and several more opened!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jenn....it doesn't say if she was a widow, and it says she was born in England. I'll google the house (it's such fun!) ;)
Cheers
Susie
-
So Susie
what you are saying is that Robert Joseph Hutton born Scotland had a brother George Frederick Hutton born scotland as well who came to Victoria as well
Jenn
-
Jenn,
Sure am......and sisters called Dinah Clark Hutton, Eliza Warwick Hutton and brothers called David and John Augustus (he apparently went to NZ), but these 4 along with George and Robert came to Oz! Don't know yet if at the same time or whether the parents came too, but I would assume so. ;D ;D
Cheers
Susie
-
Bingo easy one this was to start off with anyway
George Frederick Hutton died aged 70 in 1908 at Geelong
father Robert hutton mother Eliza Warwick 9778 reg no
now you will say how can you be sure of him straight off well hew married a lassie in Victoria a Jane Farrell nearly 20 years younger by her death and the childrens names lead me to him
Jenn
-
Bingo easy one this was to start off with anyway
George Frederick Hutton died aged 70 in 1908 at Geelong
father Robert hutton mother Eliza Warwick 9778 reg no
now you will say how can you be sure of him straight off well hew married a lassie in Victoria a Jane Farrell nearly 20 years younger by her death and the childrens names lead me to him
Jenn
Dear Jenn,
Fantastic.......do you have the CD's or do you do Vic searching online? I have found the online searching a tad more temperamental than the CD's, but I don't have to go to the library for the web! :)
Cheers
susie
-
....and here is George's burial details.
HUTTON GEORGE FREDERICK 26 Jul 1908 Geelong Western Public Cemetery
Cheers
Susie
-
My computer is playing up looks like sa system failure so I hope this post will get through
found that death earlier and his marriage etc
George Frederick Died aged 70 in 1908 at Geelong reg no 9778
father Robert mother Elizabeth Warick
no I "know" it is him by his kids names he married a much younger woman
Jenn
-
HUTTON Eliza Warwik born Edingburgh married William McNicol in 1869 Victoria
reg no 781
Jenn
-
Children to George Fredrick Hutton and Jane Farrell
oh marriage was in 1870 he was born in Edinburg reg no 3399
Dott Constance 1871 Geelong 16279
Evangeline Warwick 1873 geelong 9574
Estelle Frederica 1874 geelong 23054
Hilda Ernestine 1876 geelong 23230
Samuel Farrell 1878 geelong 9349
George Frederick 1879 geelong 16589
Irene Ince 1881 9853
Elsie Corime 1882 geelong 16470
Enid Anita 1885 geelong 17914
Robert Clark 1887 geelong 3405 died 10 weels 1887 geelong 2037
-
Hello everyone -
Just going back a few mails to Siouxsie's comment about Barnard Connor (Conner): 'where Barnard Connor went is a bit of a mystery. I don't know if he died in Tasmania after 1898 ... it also appears they had no children as the only children listed are from her marriage to Robert'. It is worth remembering that when Catherine remarried (22 May 1883, Emu Bay) she was around 50. Barnard was 70 - according to what I have in my notes he was born around 1813. In view of those ages, we should not be surprised there were no children. It is by no means the first time in my family research that I have come across a widow in middle age married a man much older than herself. For the sake of respectability? A degree of financial protection?
It's fascinating to watch the speed and scope of your joint research!
Best wishes
Ian
-
Good evening Ian, got a fellow rootscahatter checking on Bernard Death, what a lovely find was Susie letter from a great Aunt all those years ago.
Jane Hutton died aged 77 at Geelong West in 1928
father Saml Smith Farrell mother Marianne Ince
Jenn
-
Frederick George was a Teacher by the 1903 Roll
will post further detailsaa fter Te if computer is still working that is!!!
Jenn
-
This has been a fantastic thread, and I'm still reading it regularly. Great to see it still developing.
If I can help again, I will.... :D
Fingers crossed for your computer, Jenn! :o
.....dee
-
thanks Dee...BIL is going to take alook at it tomorrow but sys it is a system failure ( you know your screen freezes)
Dott Constance Hutton name is Dott Constance....she is a School teacher living at various places
a number of the girls never marry.
could be births on the federation index ...mine playing up...
Jenn
-
School teaching seems to be the go in this branch of the Huttons
in 1909
living 1010 Lygon Street , Carlton
Hutton's
Dott Constance school teacher
Elsie Corrine newsagent
Samul Farrell newsagent
Enid Anita school teacher
Jenn
-
Dee,
I cannot see an arrival for the family into Victoria.....I guess it is possible they also came into South Australia
anything for a David Hutton on the SA index's cannot see him in Victoria.
Jenn
-
Jenn,
I'll take a look.
Here's the deaths of two of the girls.....
Irene Ince HUTTON aged 42 died in 1924 at GEELONG.
Dott Constance HUTTON aged 77 died in 1948 at AUBURN
Ref = 12559
.....dee
-
from the 1841 census gives an idea of their ages but probably need to post on Scotland to see if someone can help there as I cannot view the image I think you have to do that throught SP
however living at the same address in 1841
civil parish Lady Yester country Midlothian parish number 685/1
Barbara Cran 15
Elisabeth Grant 12
David Hutton 1
Dinah C Hutton 11
Eliza Hutton 35
Eliza w Hutton 5
George F Hutton 3
Peter w Hutton 8
Robert Hutton 45
Robert Hutton 10
Tamer Irvine 25
John Tarvis 65
Hannah Warnick 30
Jenn
-
Jenn, I cant see anything for a likely David Hutton in BISA or BDM......there was a David John Hutton in BISA but was born in the south of England.
-
deaths in Victoria
father George/ George Frederick Hutton mother Jane Farrell
Evangeline Warwick Hutton died aged 70 in 1952 at Kew reg no 8374
Samuel Farrell Hutton died aged 73 in 1952 at Geelong reg no 18782
Estelle Frederic Hutton died aged 79in 1954 at Macl reg no 12682
Elsie Corinne Hutton aged 77 in 1960 at Geelong reg no 22839
Enid Anita Hutton died aged 78 in 1963 at Belm reg no 18855
Jenn
-
Goodness....all those girls staying single....... :o :o
-
Thanks Dee
this is looking very sad for this line of Huttons so far no grandchildren for George Frederick and Jane Farrell
another death
HUTTON Hilda Ernestine died aged 44 in 1920 at Geelong
reg no 14511
father Geo Fredk Hutton mother Jane Farrell
Jenn
-
Samuel Farrell Hutton appears to be a bachelor by the electoral rolls
no sign of George Fred Farrell junion though in Victoria as yet?
Jenn
-
It's actually rather amazing, those girls!
-
Nothing for Dinah C Hutton in South Australia either.
-
mmmnn wonder where she went to
death in Victoria
MCNICOL Eliza Warwick died aged 49 at Gisborne in 1885 reg no 8744
father Robert Hutton mother Eliza Warwick
Jenn
-
None of the Huttons on the Inquests Index.
I'm off till later tomorrow......hope the computer behaves, Jenn!
-
Yes me too Dee, not pushing my luck and enough done for this evening
Jenn
-
Hi all,
Dinah Hutton married John Meek 1856 in Scotland
Births in Victoria
MEEK Father - John Mother- Dinah Clark(e) Hutton
Dinah Ebenezer 1859 reg no 18647
John Howard 1862 " " 14802
Thomas Edwin 1865 " " 22366
Agnes Espie 1867 " " 22034
Robert Augustus 1869 " " 22548
Andrew Arnold 1873 " " 24261 died 1875 age 18months reg no 2507
All born Gisborne
MEEK Dinah Clark died 1913 age 84 Ydandah
Father - Robt Hutton Mother - Eliza Warwick
Reg no 11824
Raylen :)
-
Dear all,
I turned off the computer early yesterday as we were going out. Imagine my delight this morning to see all of your posts. I will add a post in the NZ board to see if we can locate John Augustus.
This letter must be 50+ years old and the handwriting is hard to read, but I have deciphered the following information:
Robert Joseph's father was Robert Hutton,a silk merchant and draper from 36 (or 50) South Bridge Edinburgh. He married Eliza Warwick, daughter of Joseph Warwick, Jeweler of London on 23 Oct 1828 at Clarkenwell(?). Robert Hutton's father was Peter Hutton, farmer White Hill, Fifeshire.
It also seems that Dinah, Robert and Peter were born at 29 Barclough(?) Place and the rest of the children were born at South Bridge.
Just realised that it was Peter William that came to Australia, David died in Scotland at 4 (sorry, trying to interpret this letter is a little hard). She also says that Peter died in NZ too, so I will add him to the NZ post.
She says that she is George Frederick's daughter, but there is no name attached, so I don't know which of the many girls she is.
Many thanks for all the information......I'll add it all to my tree today.
I also got a heap of information on the Knights (Mary Victoria Hutton) that I need to digest and add to the tree too. Would you like this information on Mary Victoria's family along with her husband's family posted when I have sorted it out?
A very happy Susie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
.....just also realised that if Dinah was married in Scotland in 1856, then the family didn't come out together. Maybe my first thought that Robert came out on the Andromarche is correct although I have never been sure.
Susie
-
Well done Raylen,
I think that the Meek's arrived in 1858 on the Queen of the East (11) listed as Reverend John Meek and Mrs John Meek, a guess at that will have to check electoral rolls though.
looking at the 1851 census in Scotland only the mother and Dinah were there still so
either the father had died or he emmigrated.
Jenn
-
Yes John Meek was a cleryman by the rolls
also arriving on the same ship is little Eliza Meek aged 1.
and there is Eliza Hutton aged 21
and William Hutton? aged 22
Jenn
-
Susie
meant to say that Clarkenwell is Clerkenwell in Lonon.
realised I hadn't added in the children born to
Eliza W Hutton and William McNicol
Eliza Margaret 1870- Bacchus marsh 6393
died 1940 aged 70 4638 unmarried
Margaret Hamilton 1871 Pent 18583
Alexander Warwick 1874 Gisborn 9162
died aged 73 in 1947 12288
William 1875 Gisb 23182
died aged 81 in 1957 21700
Mabel Roberta 1876 Gisborne23396
died 1877 3 months 1598
Jenn
-
Many thanks Jenn :)
Just had an email regarding from the Kilmore Hist. Society regarding Glue Pots saying that it is closer to Woodstock than Kilmore and I should contact the Whittlesea Hist. Society for more information.
Now wondering what the family were doing there......was it a gold area? More to check up.
Susie ;D ;D ;D
-
Now wondering what the family were doing there......was it a gold area? More to check up.
pretty sure that it was established way back that he was gold mining,
have to ask Dee what the occupation of the father was on the birth certificate she got in Victoria .
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
I have the birth certificate and it says he was a miner.....not sure from some of the mining maps if that area was an established mining community, which is probably why they moved to Taradale and Blackwood. I will need to chase up "Glue Pots" and see what the Whittlesea Hist. Society has on it.
Cheers
Susie :D
-
Here is the information from the NZ rootschat crew:
"John A HUTTON married Madeline E CAMPBELL 1871
Peter HUTTON married Elspeth CHALMERS 1862
Cemeteries,
http://www.kiwicelts.co.nz/
Archives,
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/CallSimpleSearch.do"
"Folios in case you want Certificates:-
Peter William Hutton Marriage Folio 1037
John Augustus Hutton Marriage Folio 1449
I also found John Augustus died 4 Oct 1925 age 79 and Madeline E L, died 14 June 1933 age 82. (Karori Cem, Wgtn) John was listed as a Civil Servant.
I also found a Peter Hutton who died 1914, who was listed as a Stationer in Timaru. Probate filed 6 August 1914."
Cheers
Susie ;)
-
From paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
West Coast Times 29/5/1878
"Mr John Augustus Hutton is gazetted chief clerk in the General Post
Office Wellington."
A couple of other mentions of him on that site too.
Raylen
-
From paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
West Coast Times 29/5/1878
"Mr John Augustus Hutton is gazetted chief clerk in the General Post
Office Wellington."
A couple of other mentions of him on that site too.
Raylen
How hilarious....my grandfather John Thomas Hutton (Jnr) also worked at the Post Office after he returned from the War.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Susie
-
None of the Huttons on the Inquests Index.
I'm off till later tomorrow......hope the computer behaves, Jenn!
Dear Dee,
My eyes sparkled at the thought of an Inquest Index.........Ellen Hutton there perchance.......still haven't found her.
Cheers
Susie
-
No Ellen, Susie.....sorry. None of the Meeks listed on there either.....
.....dee
-
No Ellen, Susie.....sorry. None of the Meeks listed on there either.....
.....dee
Dear Dee,
Many thanks.....I refuse to give up on Ellen (obsessive I know ;D ::) ;D).......your Inquest Index, what State/States does it cover and what year ranges? I am waiting to hear back from Tasmania if she had an inquest there but she could have moved to Vic or NSW.
Cheers
Susie
-
Victoria, Susie.......1840 -1985
-
Dear Dee,
What a fabulous resource.....microfiche/ CD or online?
Cheers
Susie
-
Disk :D
-
Cool! ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Susie
-
a further death
MCNICOL Margt Hamilton aged 42 at Watta in 1914 reg no 7743
Father: Mcnicol Wm
Mother: Eliza Margt HUTTON
Jenn
-
Hi everyone -
I’m once again asking for a little help with the Australian end of my Page family research. Recently a very kind lady in WA sent me some really interesting material, including some extracts from a notebook James Page kept in 1876. One entry – 23 October 1876 – speaks of the arrival in Adelaide on board the ‘South Australian’ of James’s niece Julia Ann Robinson (who went on to marry John Ferguson at St Luke's Adelaide, James Page acting as witness) and a Mr and Mrs West. Apparently in later life James Page’s daughter Helen (b. 1854, later Helen Hogg, of Mitcham) used to speak of ‘Minnie and Trixie West’ who may well have been relations. It seems more than likely that Minnie and Trixie (possibly Beatrice?) West were the daughters of the Mr and Mrs West who arrived in Australia in 1876. I am keen to trace the West family, if I can, back through the UK census, and would love to discover the Christian names of Mr and Mrs West. I was thinking that if and when Minnie and Trixie married, their parents’ names might be recorded. If you have time, I would be grateful if you could see if these names appear in any of the records you have access to.
I hope all is well with your own researches
Best wishes from a very wintry Cornwall
Ian
-
Hello there Ian
a scan of the indexs revels only a couple of births for a Beatrice West (no Beatrix)
one in particular did catch my eye
no marriage in South Australia for the couple though
Anthony Frederick West and Francis ROBINSON had the following children in SA
Alice 20/4/1883 at Ardrossan 305/91
Beatrice Maud 5/10/1885 at Ardrossan 361/408
James William 13/3/1881 at Adrdrossan 258/356
Marion Frances 9/8/1879 at Ardrossan 226/409
I am wondering if Minnie was Marion Frances?
Looks to be their marriage in England
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Downham in Cambridgeshire, Norfolk
Frances Robinson 1871 Downham Cambridgeshire, Norfolk
Anthony Frederick West 1871 Downham Cambridgeshire, Norfolk
a quick look at the 1871 census finds them both to have been born in Middlesex and he is a Comedian and she is an actress (giggling away to myself) Frances was aged 21 and they were boarders.
I also note on the 1851 census that Julia Ann Robinson does have a sister Frances born 1850 so am now wondering indeed if Mrs West was her sister, what do you know of this Ian?
Jenn
-
One entry – 23 October 1876 – speaks of the arrival in Adelaide on board the ‘South Australian’ of James’s niece Julia Ann Robinson (who went on to marry John Ferguson at St Luke's Adelaide, James Page acting as witness) and a Mr and Mrs West.
The passenger list of the South Australian should detail the WESTs.
There were obviously unassisted passengers as well as assisted on the South Australian when it arrived in Adelaide on 23 Oct 1876.
On the South Australian Archives website you can search for ship or assisted passenger name. I have searched and neither Julia's or the West names are listed so they would have been unassisted passengers.
http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/
> Search collection - top of page
> Searching - left menu
> Passenger list searching - left menu
The SA State library would have the passenger list...what about a request for a lookup. You have the surname and ship and date of arrival...
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?area_id=15&nav_id=669
Cheers
Cando
-
Jenn..the death of Frances WEST b.c1849
WEST Frances
2 Nov 1936 87 years Status Widow
Relative Anthony Frederick WEST [Deceased Husband]
Residence Aldgate Death Place Aldgate
Ade 585/4699
He died in 1921 aged 73 years.
Cheers
Cando
-
thanks for adding that in Cando, I feel that I am on the right track but will have to wait for Ian to confirm any details
kind thoughts Jenn
-
It's just after 8 am here - a beautiful dawn, and some interesting messages from you all those miles away. You never disappoint! Many thanks - I'm going to make it my morning's work to look into what you have discovered in the SA archives. On the face of it your suggestion that Mrs West (Frances) was Julia's sister, so a niece of Henry Page, sounds very likely indeed. I had noticed that in the 1871 census Julia was listed as an actress. Wonder if she ever 'trod the boards' in Aus?
With best wishes (and a second pot of coffee)
Ian
-
South Australian Electoral Roll 1909
WEST Anthony Frederick, First Avenue, Joslin Park No occupation given
WEST Frances, First Avenue, Joslin Park No occupation given
Doesn't help very much :(
Cando
-
Hello there Ian
So Julia was also an actress like her "sister" Frances?
another link to your Henry Page
Jenn
-
What was exciting about these extracts from the notebooks of James Page was the fact that he had obviously not lost touch with his siblings in England. I think you are absolutely right about the identity of the Mr and Mrs West who arrived with Julia Robinson in Adelaide 23 Oct 1876. Julia Robinson and Frances (West) were sisters, both actresses, their mother being Jane Page, the eldest child of Henry and Jane, born 1810. Julia married John Ferguson 30 Oct 1876, a week after she arrived in Australia (by Mr Pollitt at St Luke's).
Frances married Anthony Fred West in Downham, Norfolk. Since both parties were Londoners, I can't imagine what they were doing in the sticks, unless they had some kind of theatrical engagement. Hardly the west end!
I imagine that the Robinson girls would have been popular with James Page, as his papers show him to have been an enthusiastic member of local dramatic societies.
In James Page's notebook for the same year is the entry 'Attorney's certificate for Mrs West expires'. I have no idea whatsoever what that might mean.
Thanks again for enabling another small-but-important piece of the jigsaw to find its place in the bigger picture
Ian
-
Hello there Ian
a very warm morning in tropical queensland, would love to swap a week or two with you, it would be very nice to experience some cold weather.
I couldn't locate the Robinson family on the 1871 census, so glad you allready had that.
Do you think that Julia/Julie Robinson knew her husband prior to her arrival in South Australia?
kind thoughts Jenn
-
Hello Jenn,
I know that complaining about the weather is a British thing, but I genuinely enjoy the seasonal changes ... if only we could be guaranteed two or three months of proper summer - that's the season over her that disappoints.
It's odd, with this family, how patterns seem to repeat themselves. Here are the Robinson girls going out to Australia, where Uncle James is a witness at one wedding, just as he had done twenty years earlier with two more nieces, the Downey girls. And just as James Page's wife travelled over and married within a week, so too with Julia. At the moment I don't know anything about the man she married, or whether they had known each other before she left England. I can't find Julia in the 1861 census - or her father, who was still alive in 1871. Perhaps they had already had a spell overseas.
I would love to know whether Anthony Frederick West continued being a comedian when he landed in Australia, or whether he found himself a 'proper' job.
It's a night here for one more log in the woodburner, and a little liquid something to keep out the cold!
Best wishes
Ian
-
Hello there Ian and All
I noticed on the Probate listings etc on ProVic that there is a will for Catherine H Connor.
Pre-Release Index to Wills, Probate and Administration Records 1841-1925
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=54
It would be rather a fitting end to see what the will said after we have journeyed with her over the years from one century into the next.
I will send Genni a Pm and see if she is going to ProVic and if she is able to get a copy
kind thoughts to you all Jenn
-
Wow.......would love to see this too. :D
Cheers
Susie
-
I have tried to see if any of my ancestors wills have been digitised...have registered as a public user, logged on, gone to Wills and Probate, searched using the reference numbers from the new index and the website just stalls.... >:( I wouldn't have thought the 'trial' Probate Index would prevent a search on a different database....perhaps they are working on the website....and it is so slow.
On the upside, found a few more family names on the index...thought I was going to have a real session looking for digitised wills now I have some more numbers but it seems that 's not going to happen today.
Cheers
Cando
PS I do love the Christmas smiley >:( a lot more expression..looks a lot angrier than the usual one.
-
Dear Cando,
I tried too, and it seemed to just hang for about 5 minutes.......they may not have fully anticipated how many people would be interested!
Love the spinning, popping eyes!!!! :D :o
-
Hi
It looks like everyone had the same idea, probably like everyone else who received the email from the PROV.
Maybe, when the first initial rush on the index, will die down soon and we'll be able to check the record online.
The will is probably digitised, so you will be able to view it online, most of the early ones are, but you have always needed the reference to see it. If it isn't I can get a copy when I go to the PROV but it won't be until January.
There is only 1 more Saturday opening before Christmas, and I'm too busy organising my Christmas holidays.
Regards
Genni ::)
-
Hello, I am a descendent of Catherine Downey and Robert Hutton when they settled in Australia. Catherine's youngest daughter, Mary Victoria, was my great grandmother. As you probably know Catherine married Robert Hutton in Adelaide and they settled in Victoria for some years before moving to Tasmania. My great grandmother was born on 17th Sept 1873 in Blackwood, Vic the youngest of 7. Catherine was 41 at the time of her birth. We have no real information on why they went to Tassie, except that some of the older boys went mining there. We have traced the fact that Catherine remarried when my great grandmother was still a young girl, and it appears that my great grandmother was raised in Melbourne, not Tasmania, perhaps by her older sisters. We do know that Catherine was never spoken about by my great grandmother, although she was very close to her immediate sisters - Jane and Teresa. We cannot find any information on where or how Catherine died although we have been trying across the different states in Australia.
Hoping this will be of some assistance in your own family journey. If you have any further info we would love to hear.
Anne
-
Dear Ann,
Catherine's son, John Thomas, was my great grandfather. catherine married a Barnard Connor and she died in Flemington in Victoria in 1919 aged 86. The death certificate registration number is Reg 1787. She died as Cath Connor and was living at her daughter's house at the stage.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Susie ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I should like to wish a VERY happy Christmas to everyone who has participated in this fascinating thread. When I made the first posting, I had no idea that it would lead to so much amazing information, or that I would meet such friendly, generous and supportive people. It's been a real privilege to meet you, and I hope each of you enjoys a fine holiday followed by a New Year of solid progress with your family history research.
Ian
-
Dear Ian
Wishing you a fabulous festive season and hoping to hear more about your journey with Catherine's family, the Pages.
I too am extremely grateful and astonished by the amount of information that I have been privy to about my ancestors, and the generosity of the Rootschat community as well as their humour and their excitement for us at discovering forebears that they themselves have no ties to.......this is real community at work (and play).
Happy holidays
Susie ;) ;) ;)
-
Happy, happy Christmas Ian enjoy your day and hopefully 2009 will bring your PAGES to life for you
Jenn
Susie merry christmas to you I do hope your mother really enjoys the family history you have put together for her
kind thoughts
jenn
-
Season's Greetings from me also Ian....it has been an interesting journey with your family in Australia :)
Susie :) A wonderful special Christmas for you and your family. I am sure your mother will be delighted with the family history you have researched and prepared especially for her.
Cheers
Cando
-
Happy New Year to all,
I am a very happy lassie....just got a copy of Robert's death certificate from the State Archives (Tas). His profession is listed as "Accountant" however he died of Phthisis..black lung disease on 10 August 1880.
Only happy about getting the certificate..not happy about the cause of death. :(
Ian......I have sent you a copy by email for your records.
Cheers
Susie ;D ;D ;D
-
It's been a great journey for the two of you, Ian and Susie.....
and we've all been glad to have been part of it.....
Happy New Year to you both.
.....dee
-
It's been a great journey for the two of you, Ian and Susie.....
and we've all been glad to have been part of it.....
Happy New Year to you both.
.....dee
Dear Dee,
Many thanks......it has been a fabulous journey, and the support from a great number of rootschatters has been astonishing, and humbling.
Cheers
Susie ;D
-
Well damn blast and bugger, no death in Tasmania.
Gee whizz where did she get to
Haven't we had some fun with this thread through and we have at least found lots of lost ancestors.
Rootschat Rootschat Rootschat
OY OY OY
It was one of my favourites in 2008
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
Robert's daughter in law Ellen Hutton/Keleher sure is an elusive one........and I would agree that this thread (as well as Ellen's) has been so much fun......as well as an amazing journey of discovery of my roots.
Really looking forward to stunning 2009 ancestral discoveries for us all.
Cheers
Susie ;D ;D
-
Susie
not too sure of this but I will ask away, did you order a copy of Catherine's will or see if anyone was able to view it for you?
Jenn
-
Susie
not too sure of this but I will ask away, did you order a copy of Catherine's will or see if anyone was able to view it for you?
Jenn
Dear jenn
Hadn't even occured to me........is that on PROV...the site that has been down lately?
Cheers
Susie
-
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=54
The site is working but a wee bit slow
unfortunately her will has not been digitalised so you have to order a copy
Take a look at the site and see what you can make of it all, it would be very interesting to read her will.
Jenn
ps you never know who's will you will find.
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks...have found the following entry
Given Name Catherine H
Surname Connor
Alternative Name
Title
File number 163/698
Death Date 26 Mar 1919
Death Date notes
Grant Date 7 Jun 1919
Grant Date notes
Nature of Grant P
General Notes
Occupation Widow
Residence Newmarket
I will now order a copy.....easier said than done....have asked PROV if there is any way I can have access off site.
Cheers
Susie ;D
-
I know the very lovely gennig gennie goes to Provic and does lookups maybe it might be something she would be able to do. I have pm'd her
Jenn
-
I know the very lovely gennig gennie goes to Provic and does lookups maybe it might be something she would be able to do. I have pm'd her
Jenn
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks.........I will be overjoyed to get it......if gennig is able to do it for me.....many thanks for pm'ing her.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Susie
-
A little update on PROV.....I have phoned them on a number of occasions about various aspects of the website and was informed yesterday that the speed of the site will not improve. I was getting a tad annoyed at not being able to look up some passenger lists. Evidently only a certain number of people can actually access the site at any one time. They feel the Wills and Probate database and subsequent downloading of digitised Probate files is adding to the problem ::) ::) ::) I have actually logged on during the night on a couple of occasions and the speed wasn't much better than during the day!!
Cheers
Cando
-
Handy to know, thanks Cando....but not very helpful of them....to put more things online without considering the demand! :-\
Dee
-
....ahh.....that explains the excruciating slowness when i logged on today :(
Susie
-
Hi all,
I requested a copy of Catherine's will yesterday from pROV to see how they would respond and here is their answer....I particularly liked :( this sentence "Wills cannot be photographed"....so I have written again seeking clarification.......if they are digitising them why can't photos be taken????? ??? ??? ???
Cheers
Susie
"Thank you for your enquiry regarding copies of wills and probate records.
Copy orders are placed in person at PROV's reading rooms as PROV is unable
to provide copies in response to phone or written requests. Please see PROV
guide 2 Copying Services for details about obtaining copies of public
records:
www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide002/PROVguide002.jsp
Digital Cameras
Researchers can make photographic copies of records free of charge using
their own digital camera, provided that conditions of use are observed.
These conditions of use include restrictions on photographing records that
are not subject to crown copyright. Wills cannot be photographed. For
details see PROVguide 24 Use of Digital Cameras in PROV Reading Rooms
available online at
www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide024/PROVguide024.jsp
Search Agents
PROV is unable to provide copies of records or undertake research in
response to phone or written requests. If you are unable to visit a reading
room to view records or place copy orders, you can employ a search agent to
undertake this on your behalf. For details of search agents please consult
PROVguide 15 Search Agents available online at
www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide015/PROVguide015.jsp
PROV's reading rooms are located at:
Victorian Archives Centre (99 Shiel Street, North Melbourne). Opening Hours
9.00am to 4.30pm Mon-Fri (ex public holidays) and the 2nd and last
Saturdays of most months www.prov.vic.gov.au/main/saturdayopenings.asp
Ballarat Archives Centre (cnr Doveton and Mair Streets, Ballarat). Opening
Hours 9.30am to 4.30pm Mon-Tues (ex public holidays).
You can speak to a Reference Officer tollfree on 1800 657 452 (9.00am to
4.30pm Mon-Fri, ex public holidays) for assistance with using PROV's
website"
-
Yes, Susie, it is not easy for anyone who lives at a distance from PROV. As mentioned by Jenn, Gennig has often been very helpful and kind to Rootschatters when she has happened to be visiting, but without her kindness it's pay an agent.....or wait till you might be visiting Melbourne.....both expensive options. :-\
Dee
-
I did PM Genni and shesaid she would do the lookup but as she has other commitments cannot do this weekend and most probably will be late January.
So Susie patience for all of us.
Jenn
-
Hi,
Another reply from PROV re copying of wills and how slow the online server is.....
My heartfelt thanks to Gennig for offering to do the lookup.......it is a wonderful offer and I will be chuffed to get Catherine's will and I am sure that yelkcub will be too.
Cheers
Susie ;D
"Photographs of wills cannot be taken by anyone. However, copyright laws
allow for researchers to have wills photocopied. It is for this reason that
we have provided you with a list of search agents. As you are unable to
visit one of our reading rooms, a search agent can view the records on your
behalf, and should you so wish, place a photocopy order. They would then
arrange for the photocopies to be sent to you.
I have spoken with team members who are currently overseeing the
digitization of wills and they are unable to give me an estimate on when
particular wills will be digitised. It is an ongoing process so we
recommend you check the site at your leisure. Should you wish to have the
will immediately, you will have to engage a search agent, a friend, family
member or a representative who can view and place copy orders on your
behalf.
In regards to our website, we have been experiencing service delays with
our online catalogue 'Access the Collection'. Please accept our apologies
for any inconvenience this is causing you. We are currently working to
resolve the issue and hope a solution will be in place shortly."
-
Yes John Meek was a cleryman by the rolls
also arriving on the same ship is little Eliza Meek aged 1.
and there is Eliza Hutton aged 21
and William Hutton? aged 22
Jenn
Hi,
Just had another piece of the Hutton puzzle come to me and as you have all had such an active role in this thread, I thought I would share it with you. I have had contact with one of Dinah's great grandchildren who has written a booklet on the Meek family and has sent me grave photos. What a delightful contact this is proving to be. ;D ;D
Dinah Clarke Hutton (Robert's sister) married John Meek were married in Scotland on 24th February 1856 and had Eliza Grace some 12 months later. John Meek's health was failing even though he was a young man and they decided to emigrate to Australia on the Queen of the East along with Dinah's sister Eliza Warwick. (not sure if William was related.....can't find him in the family yet).
John was yet to be ordained as a Presbyterian minister, but took up an appointment as a Missioner to Gisborne in 1858 whilst pursuing his studies. Dinah went on to have 7 more children in Gisborne (busy lot those Presbyterians!!). John retired in 1907 after 49 years in Gisborne and moved to Yackandandah to live with their son who had followed his father in the ministry. Dinah died in September 1913 and John in June 1914. They are buried at the Yackandandah Cemetery and their grave was refurbished in 2004.
Cheers
Susie (a very happy Susie) :D :D :D
-
Hi Susie,
I am very happy for you.
What wonderful news :)
Thsi has been an amazing thread to read and I hope you find more out about them
Newbe
-
Thanks Newbee.........the information in the booklet is fabulous. :D
Can you open the PDF photo of John Meek?
Cheers
Susie
-
I will try now and get back to you
newbe
-
I can open it fine Susie. It is a lovely photo of John Meek.
Newbe
-
I can open it fine Susie. It is a lovely photo of John Meek.
Newbe
Dear Newbe,
Many thanks for checking for me....and yes, it's a fine photo of the Rev! ;D
Cheers
Susie :D :D :D
-
Wow,
Gennig has sent through Catherine Downey/Hutton/Connor's will......it was here when I got home late yesterday......many thanks Gennig, I am very grateful.
After being shipwrecked, 7 children and 2 husbands, Catherine made her last will and testament one month before she died in 1919 leaving her wordly possessions amounting to just under 29 pounds to her daughter that she was living with in Melbourne. It is a very interesting read.
Again, many thanks to Gennig......you are a star. :D
Cheers
Susie (again a very happy Susie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D)
-
Now that is wonderfull news Susie.
Gennie is really a terrrifc person. She does go the extra mile ;)
Now anything further in the will to aid in the finding of what happened to her second husband.
Jenn
-
Now that is wonderfull news Susie.
Gennie is really a terrrifc person. She does go the extra mile ;)
Now anything further in the will to aid in the finding of what happened to her second husband.
Jenn
Dear Jenn,
Yes, it is wonderful.........alas, no hint about her second husband.
Gennie is a star.........again my profound thanks, and I will share this gift with yelkcub.
Cheers
Susie
-
Although I haven't appeared recently in this thread, I've been keeping an eye on it - and wanted to congratulate everyone concerned on the work you have been doing, and the fantastic progress you have made together. I'm certainly looking forward to learning the details of Catherine's will. My own work on tracing Catherine's maternal grandfather, Henry Page, is very hard going, but I intend to persist. And of course, as and when I make any discoveries I shall be proudly posting them right here!!!
Best wishes
Ian
-
Having seen and heard the tragic events in Australia – the appalling destruction and loss of life, I hope that my RootsChat friends in Australia, their families and loved ones, are all safe and well
Ian
-
Dear Ian,
Safe and well here on the South Coast of NSW but with a very heavy heart....I lived through the Ash Wednesday fires that devestated the Dandenongs region in Victoria many years ago and I still remember the terrifying sense of panic and fear, and the horrible aftermath that lasted in the community for many many months........and I was fortunate not to lose property or a loved one then..........I feel an overwhelming sadness for these communities who are still counting their dead and have the huge task of rebuilding ahead of them.
I do know that the Aussie spirit will kick in across our nation with support......both physical and monetary, and already the government has mobilised the army. We feel like a country in mourning.
Cheers
Susie
-
Hi there Ian,
I'm a 'newbie' family researcher looking into my family. My grandmother, Menetta Coral Walker (nee Hutton) of Beaconsfield Tasmania (d. 2004), had done a fair whack of research in the decade before she died, unfortunately she suffered from slight senility so the information is not always reliable.
According to the info I have, my grandmother's grandfather was David Downey Hutton, son of Catherine (nee Downey) and Robert Joseph Hutton, an accountant (???) from Edinburgh, Scotland. Catherine and Robert Joseph were married 8 December 1856.
David married Alberta Ann Jenkin and had 3 children together:
*** William Joseph Hutton, who was my grandmother's father.
*** Minette Coral, a dashing young lass who eloped to NZ
*** Eva May - who is still a complete mystery to me!
David and Alberta ran the 'A.A. Hutton' general store in Beaconsfield until Alberta's death. David was a miner, and like many others in the family was 'accidentally killed' (I'm guessing during work hours).
Cheers, Sarah
-
Hello there Sarah
an welcome to rootschat
So you belong to the Hutton's we had a lot of fun helping Yelkcub and Siouxsie with their family.
I am sure they will both be glad to find another family member.
Now if you need any help with your research ask away.
kind thoughts Jenn
-
Hello Sarah -
Good to meet another member of the family! You have certainly come to the right place to discover more about your forebears. This discussion has been incredibly informative, and I have been grateful for the amazing help and friendliness I have found here.
Catherine Downey was the daughter of Mary Teresa Page, daughter of an ancestor of mine, Henry Page of London. You can probably pick up most of Catherine's dramatic story from the pages of this thread. However, if you like I can send you my file on her and her Dickensian childhood. Just PM me your email address.
Best wishes
Ian in Cornwall ... where spring has sprung!
-
Many thanks for the warm welcome Jenn. I have to say it has been incredible reading through all of this information and just seeing the way everyone interacts with and contributes from their own little 'corner of the world'. It is true, when searching for relatives you're likely to find friends :-)
-
Hi Ian,
It's truly incredible, I didn't think I had a hope in hades of finding out anything, at least not in the first few months. But after a relatively short time I have all this insight into 'my common gene pool' .... it's very encouraging. Sadly, I don't think my father's side is going to prove to be as easy (surname James, grandfather born in slums of Birmingham at the turn of the last century, and not much else to go on) but it'll be a good challenge.
And thank you for your generous offer. It would be great to see it all in black and white.
Enjoy the spring!!!
-
Baardsgirl,
do you know what happened to Alberta Ann HUTTON (neeJenkyns) after David Downey Huttons death in Beaconsfield, I do see her listed on the Electoral Rolls 1914 to1936 at Beaconsfield.
in 1914 at Weld Street Beaconsfield
Alberta Ann store keeper
Eva May domestic duties
Gladys Irene school teacher
Mary domestic duties
Wallace Henry battery hand
William Forrester labourer
William Joseph shop assistant
But no sign of Eva Mary after 1914 but she may have married and I don't have index records for that time frame
http://eheritage.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/resources/detail.aspx?ID=LFH_00918
link to David Downey Hutton's grave
Also regarding your Grandfather JAMES if you start a new thread/topic you will get a lot of eager researchers more than happy to search for you, just give as much information as you have.
kind thoughts Jenn
-
Marriage as requested by Jenn
HUTTON Eva May
RICHARDS Harold
5 Apr 1915
At Beaconsfield 1915 Reg#15
She is alone on the electoral rolls but in 1936 is living at 24 Gardens Road, Moonah HD. At the same address - Grenville Sircombe RICHARDS, Labourer.
Cannot see a death for Harold to 1930.
Now to confusion -
There is a grave for Eva May RICHARDS who died in 1918
Gravestone of Eva May RICHARDS . Died in 1918, aged 30yrs. Source: Latrobe Cemetery, General Section
and
Death
RICHARDS Eva May
Father Surname No recorded Mother Name Not recorded
24 Dec 1918
Place Cotton St LATROBE 1918 Reg#789
Cheers
Cando
-
Great to see that this thread is still evolving. It's been a most interesting exchange.
Welcome to Rootschat, baardsgirl. You'll find lots of helpful people here if you have any queries with your research.
Dee
-
I see that Eva May HUTTON was born 1888 and the gravestone record states aged 30 years of age in 1918. This would tie in with Eva May's birth date.
Jenn - the same headstone for David -
Headstone of Alberta Ann HUTTON . Born in 1857, died in 1938. Source: Beaconsfield General Cemetery Methodist Section
Cheers
Cando
-
WOW........I rushed out the door yesterday to head up to Sydney to be with a critically ill relative in hospital and I come back today and I have a new cousin!!! ;D ;D ;D
Hi Baardsgirl, my side of the family is descended through Catherine and Robert's son, John Thomas.
Catherine and Robert lead an amazing life.........they married in Adelaide, where Robert is listed as a "clerk", then got gold fever and headed to Victoria for many years, before heading to Waratah in Tasmania, where Robert (we think) spent some time working as a miner, before becoming an accountant for the mines. He died on 10th August 1880 at the age of 49. Catherine then remarried, and she died 26 March 1919 in Flemington, Vic.
Two of their sons, David Downey (your great grandfather) and Robert Francis both went to the mine at Beaconsfield and according to the Beaconsfield Historical Society they both died of Phthisis (Miner's black lung disease). David Downey died on 12 February 1893 and Robert Francis died on 4 January 1895.
I have lots more on all the children and Robert and Catherine.........I will P.M. my email address........again........WOW....another cousin!!!!
Cheers
Susie
-
Marriage as requested by Jenn
HUTTON Eva May
RICHARDS Harold
5 Apr 1915
At Beaconsfield 1915 Reg#15
She is alone on the electoral rolls but in 1936 is living at 24 Gardens Road, Moonah HD. At the same address - Grenville Sircombe RICHARDS, Labourer.
Cannot see a death for Harold to 1930.
Now to confusion -
There is a grave for Eva May RICHARDS who died in 1918
Gravestone of Eva May RICHARDS . Died in 1918, aged 30yrs. Source: Latrobe Cemetery, General Section
and
Death
RICHARDS Eva May
Father Surname No recorded Mother Name Not recorded
24 Dec 1918
Place Cotton St LATROBE 1918 Reg#789
Cheers
Cando
Thanks Cando for taking time out of your very busy day to check for a marriage
it is a bit of a mystery her being on the rolls but also a death, I guess a possibilty of two different women.
Only a copy of the death certificate might solve the puzzle.
Query for you Cando
is there a birth for Eric Surcombe RICHARDS born 1916 in Ulverstone,enlisted Moonah he is listed on the NAA archives with his father as Grenville Richards, the poor chap was a POW when the vessell he was on was torpeoded by the Japanese in WW2.
Am wondering if perhaps there is a mistranscription with Eva's husbands name if you follow my drift.
Jenn
-
I checked to see if Grenvelle had a brother Harold but no luck
RICHARDS James Dickens born Cornwall married Elizabeth CAMERON born Edingbrgh in Victoria in 1872 reg no 3600
Children to this couple born in Harrietville
Sarah Jane Cameron born 1875 reg no 9554
Grenville Surcombe born 1883 reg no 9874
Silvanus Charles born 1887 reg no 3624
Isabella Annie born 1880 reg no 23086
HOWEVER
http://www.srct.com.au/search.html
I found these two burials
First names : Grenville
Surname : RICHARDS
Age : 73
Date of death :
Service type : Burial
Service date : 14-May-1959
Last residence : FERRY
Grave location -
Cemetery : Cornelian Bay
Area or denomination : Church of England
Section : KK
Site number : Number 219,
First names : Eva May
Surname : RICHARDS
Age : 49
Date of death :
Service type : Burial
Service date : 16-Feb-1948
Last residence :
Grave location -
Cemetery : Cornelian Bay
Area or denomination : Church of England
Section : KK
Site number : Number 219,
So they are buried together but still no further advanced if it is the same woma born Eva May Hutton.
Jenn
-
Hi all, wow, things really do happen fast on this post!
I can offer the following info. It is anecdotal only at this stage (my mother) but I'll try to find corroboration in the next few hours (work permitting of course, ahem!)
Alberta Ann (JENKIN) died 17 Novermber 1938. She peeled the potatoes for lunch, then sat down in the kitchen chair and passed away. Very peaceful.
Eva May married a RICHARD (first name unknown). They had at least 3 children together, names are thought to be Clarence, Evelyn and Archibald. Clarence, or 'Clarrie' was, according to mum's recollections, brought up basically as an orphan, leading her to believe his parents died quite young.
Her younger sister, Minette Coral eloped to New Zealand (married name, CRABTREE) and was not welcomed into the family for some time again. Her re-entrance into the family was ca. 1926, hence my grandmother being named Menetta Coral.
Alberta Ann was actually named after the Royal Albert ship; she was born during the journey from UK to Australia. 25.01.1857
The HUTTON family ran the local grocery store in Weld St, Beaconsfield from ca. 1850 to 1950(?). They also had a bakery for a while.
Cheers,
Sarah
-
Marriage as given previously and I think there is a mistranscription for the husband's name. On the births regs the father is named as Arnold.
HUTTON Eva May
RICHARDS Harold
5 Apr 1915
At Beaconsfield 1915 Reg#15
Births to 1919
RICHARDS Arnold Clarence
Father Arnold RICHARDS Mother Eva May RICHARDS nee Hutton
28 Aug 1917
At Latrobe Reg#2740
RICHARDS Evelyn Dorothy
Father Arnold RICHARDS Mother Eva May RICHARDS nee Hutton
6 Dec 1918
At Latrobe Reg#1805
There is no birth for a Archibald RICHARDS in Tasmania to 1919. Did Eva May HUTTON die on the 24 Dec 1918 following the birth of Evelyn on the 6th Dec 1918?
According to the indexes a Grenville Liscombe RICHARDS was married to Eva May SMITH. So that eliminates the two burials found by Jenn.
Cheers
Cando
-
More info: Alberta Ann's brother, William Trembath JENKIN, is buried in Charter's Towers (death cert. ref. 1898/C2525). He died age 43.
-
thanks Cando, that seems to clarify those burials, what a coincidence but it does explain the electoral rolls.
Plus gives Baardsgirl info for Eva May Huttonn ;D
Now what happened to Harold Richards maybe WW1?
Jenn
-
Australian Electoral Rolls
1914, 1919 Tasmania
RICHARDS Arnold Moriarty Labourer
1928
RICHARDS Arnold 63 Galvin Street, Launceston East Storeman
1936
RICHARDS Arnold 33 Galvin Street, Launceston East Storeman
RICHARDS Ethel Maud 33 Galvin Street, Launceston East HD
Cando
-
HUTTON family store (run by A.A. HUTTON nee JENKIN) and HUTTON residence, Beaconsfield Tasmania
CERTIFICATE OF TITLE VOL 1022 FOLIO 23
WELD ST, BEACONSFIELD
ONE PERCH AND NINE TENTHS OF A PERCH
ORIGINALLY GRANTED TO ARTHUR EVAN & JOHN CHARLES FERGUSON
25 AUGUST 1861
CERTIFICATE OF TITLE VOL 1031 FOLIO 37
ONE WOOD & THIRTY-TWO PERCHES AND THREE TENTHS OF A PERCH
ORIGINALLY GRANTED TO CHARLES AMMIEL HOLDING WILLIAMSON
WILLIAM DIBBS & THOMAS EDWARD WOODMAN
7 NOVEMBER 1861
-
Marriage
RICHARDS Arnold
FISHER Ethel Maud
24 Feb 1921-
At Burnei Reg#202
Could possibly be his birth...other Arnold's have 2nd given name.
RICHARDS Arnold
Father/ Joseph John Mother CRAWFORD Emma Eliza
27 Jan 1893
At Mersey
Reg#1469/1893
Cando
-
Hi Cando,
You've been busy. Great news about Arnold / Harold. Looks like after Eliza May died, he remarried. I suppose being a widower was not a 'natural state' for many men back then.
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=385306.msg2574108
just tying it in probably no need though ;D
Jenn
-
Thought I'd add a little more info about Eva May and Arnold:
Arnold Richards, born 1893 in Mersey Tas. Married Eva Hutton, born 1888 Beaconsfield Tas.
Thier children were Arnold Clarence Richards (known as Clarry) and Evelyn Dorothy Richards.
Eva died when Evelyn was born (21 December 1918) and Arnold was by all accounts heart-broken at the loss of his beloved wife.
He did eventually remarry; from what I've read I believe that men of that era just weren't equipped to live as a widower and father.
This is a picture of Eva May's headstone; it's a beautiful inscription.
-
Dear Baardsgirl,
How delightful to have this amazing tribute to your Eva May............it is a beautiful tribute to her.
Cheers
Susie
-
Hi,
Just trying to fill in some of the Hutton holes......I have (from a family source) that Robert and Catherine's daughter Jane Catherine (born 1867 in Blackwood, Vic) died in Hurstville NSW in 1948.
The only death that matches this information is for a Jane Catherine Casas.
However, I cannot find a marriage in NSW, Tas (where the family moved to) or Qld to substantiate this information. Today, the Vic BDM is offline, so could a Rootschatter with access to Vic and SA records possibly so a search for Jane Catherine Hutton marrying a CASAS from 1884 please.
Cheers
Susie
-
Jane CASAS in 1930 and 1936 lived at 37 Arthur Street, Kogragh Sydney
along with Carmen Frances and Julian Roy Clerk and Julian chied chef in 1930 and in 1936 just Julian Roy
I cannot locate a marrige as yet checked TAS up to 1899 VIC WA Qld NSW so odd!!!!!
but there are children born in WA
CASAS JULIAN ROY at COOLGARDIE 330 1898
CASAS DAVID at COOLGARDIE 386 1899
died aged 1 day at Coolgardie 161/1899
CASAS STILLBORN at BOULDER 1255 1900
CASAS CARMEN ESMEE at BOULDER 13671901
CASAS DOLORES MAY at PERTH 4763 1903
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks..........I think that only leaves SA for a marriage!!!!
So......I have just looked up NSW BDM for Julian (hubby's death) and the Julian that is listed has Julian as his father, but Carmen as his mother...........this is getting weird!!!!!!
....unless Son Julian married a Carmen Esmee (not to be confused with Carmen Frances his sister) and they had the third Julian in the family ! ;D ;D
This family line looks like it will prove to be an interesting, tricky one. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Susie
-
Sorry Susie checked SA as well
Julian is the father and Julian Roy is the son
and looks as if Julian the father also had a father called Julian, what's confusing about that ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jenn
-
We do know however that Theresa Warwick Hutton did marry in Western Australia, so I wonder if they ventured there together
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
.....that certainly could be a possibility.......wonder where they got married though as all states have been checked!
Cheers
Susie
-
Susie I am unable to find the CASAS name in any other state other than WA in that era.
Perhaps a browse of the electoral rolls for WA for the early 1900's.
and
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/pdf/battye/pods/1899/0207.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/pdf/battye/pods/1899/0064.pdf
Look for Austral Club...Mrs Julian CACAS, proprietress.
Cheers
Cando
-
I noted that when doing an engine search ( probably shouldn't mention which one) that there appears to be Casas wine produced in the Margaret River Area of Western Australia.
Also looking at PO directories there appears to be a couple of Casas as restaurant owners.
Pity we don't have anyone with access to immigration details for Western Australia to see where the Casas family came from
I wonder if they never married or perhaps the marriage details were not recorded properly.
I wonder if she (Jane Catherine) was a witness at Therese Wawick Hutton's marriage.
Jenn
Oh If only all of the States BDM's on line were instantly purchasable if that is correct English as we can do with NSW and Victoria. IT would be a very good income for the states with all those genealogists out there wanting a certificate right now!!!!! However, then we could all spend far too much on research!!!!!
-
Another thought here, I wonder did the two Hutton girls go to Western Australia to visit or live with their uncle Janes Henry Horace Downey?
Jenn
-
Hi,
Looks like there are a lot of Casas records in the American rolls........with most of them born in Cuba and Mexico........if that is the case for Julian (senior), then doesn't this get interesting!!!!! Doesn't seem to be a marriage that fits, nor is there any in NZ.
Cando,
Looks like Jane ran restaurants in WA......wonder if that was the case when she was at Kogorah....although by 1936 she would have been nearing 70.....looks like Julian carried on the family tradition as in the 1930 roll he is listed as chief chef.
Jenn,
Thanks for the heads up re Casas wines etc......I will follow up. It would be great to know of Jane was a witness at the 1898 wedding of Theresa......she was certainly in WA at the time giving birth that year....although Mt Margaret (where Theresa married) is about 400 kms from Coolgardie where Jane was birthing! (Hell of a trip!!!!)
I think I have a possible contact in WA who might just have that certificate.....I will let the board know if I get a result!!!!
Cheers
Susie
-
.......alas.......no certificate!!!!!!! :'( :'( :'(
Cheers
Susie
-
Just found out that Julian Casas ran a Cafe in Gwalia, WA in 1909 called the Gwalia Block Cafe. He also opened a bank account there which references his Freemason Lodges at Gwalia along with his former lodge at Mount Morgans (which I believe is in Qld?????? unless this is a name for the lodge rather than a place name).
He wasn't listed in the 1906 or 1916 electoral rolls though......so his stay in Gwalia was short and sweet.......wonder if Jane was with him there?
Cheers
Susie
-
I would be very interested to know where you did find that information Susie
Mt. Morgan is indeed a town QLD west of Rockhampton and down a bit ;D
Perhaps there is another in Western Australia?
Jenn
-
Dear Jenn,
I found Julian Casas in the WA Post office Directory at the State Library of WA, and then located Gwalia and found that it is a ghost town and that they had a museum, so I emailed the museum and had a reply back two hours later.....very chuffed I was!!!!!
They have access to old Commonwealth bank records for the town, and sure enough, he had an account!
Now.........the questions are.......were the family with him in Gwalia, and did they/he travel to Queensland prior to 1909???
Cheers
Susie
-
But ??? which Julian Casas was it? might have been his father perhaps?
Jenn
-
1901 Electoral Roll WA
Perth
Julius Casas Chief Palace Hotel St George’s Terrace
Joseph Casas night porter same address
1901 District Perth sub district James Street
Jane Casas 200b Roe Street Domestic Service
Julien Casas same address cook
Same in 1906 but listed as CASSAS
And note Julien is how it is spelt on the rolls
Jenn
-
......we have Julian, Julien and Julius..........but they all seem to be in the food industry!!!!!'
Cheers
Susie
-
Is anyone still reading this posting after several years? :'(
I am also another descendant of Robert and Catherine, through Robert Francis Hutton and then his son, Aubrey Clifford (my great grandfather).
Brian
-
Hi Brian,
Still reading this post......and still doing Hutton searches! I am down through the John Thomas Hutton line. I will send you a personal message with my email address if you want to contact me.
Cheers
Siouxsie
-
I would be very interested to know where you did find that information Susie
Mt. Morgan is indeed a town QLD west of Rockhampton and down a bit ;D
Perhaps there is another in Western Australia?
Jenn
There was indeed another town called Mout Margaret, located between laverton & leonora, also a place called Mount Morgans, both are now "ghost" towns for the want of a better word - nothing exists there except the cemetery @ Mount Morgans. (see www.findagrave.com as I have uploaded some pictures of Mt Morgans)
-
Hi all
Theresa Warwick HUTTON married Nicholas Hocking WOOLCOCK in Mt Margaret WA 1898 Ref: 771/1898
Theresa Warwick WOOLCOCK died aged 97 16th Feb 1967 Kalgoorlie buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Seven Day Adventist Section BA Grave0143
Regards
Genni
Genni,
You are a gem....many thanks....I will put her details in my files now.
Susie
Hi all I have just posted a picture of Nicholas' "headstone" as he is buried at Goomalling Western Australia I also found an article on what happened to him.
Cheers! Annette
-
Kalgoorlie Miner 21 Aug 1939
Old Man Struck by Car.......
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sls/
http://www.ozburials.com/CemsWA/OtherCems/goomalling.htm
WOOLCOCK Nicholas Hocking 19 Aug 1939 aged 75 years
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
WOOLCOCK Nicholas H
District Northam 1939 Ref#140
So others can share the information.
Cheers :)
Cando
-
My son-in-law, Ryan, is Robert and Catherine's gt grandson through Robert Francis HUTTON. I notice that reply 128 refers to the 'family legend' re Ellen disappearing. The myth that I have heard is that Robert was abandoned by his parents in Waratah. He then lived in the stables behind a butcher who allowed him to live there in return for help in the butcher shop - thus, this is how he became a butcher.
I was wondering if there was any evidence to support this? I haven't been able to really discover when John Thomas left Tasmania as he was still in Burnie with Ellen when Frederick was born. That was 1898. I then have him Corowa in 1908 and then marrying Hilda in 1912 in Sydney. Before the move to Inverell.
Any information to help clarify the myth would be appreciated.
Thank you
Merrelyn
-
Hi there Welcome to this long and valuable thread
IF you have John Thomas Huttons"
death certificate and you have the date of death perhaps a search of the local paper might have an obituary or a write up
What was his date of death if you have it please
thanks Jenn
-
Greetings......it has been forever since I have been here........but I thought I should reply.
JADBATES....."I notice that reply 128 refers to the 'family legend' re Ellen disappearing." All the family believed that Ellen abandoned the family. However Ellen was admitted on 16 June 1891 to the New Norfolk Mental Institution in Hobart just after Robert's birth in 1891 and she remained there until April 29, 1897. (these records are available online)
I know she had another 4 children after she left the asylum, one who she claims as John's but by my records he was well settled in Corowa by then.
I have never heard the story of Robert being abandoned by his father.......I do know that in Corowa the children were cared for by the nuns in the town.
TROPICALJ
There are two John Thomas HUTTONS.
The father (my great grandfather).....John Thomas HUTTON died in Inverell in 2 June 1946 (Certificate number 10031/1946) and I have seen a write up somewhere.
The son (my grandfather) died in his nursing home on the Northern Beaches of NSW on 16 January 1958 (Certificate number 2061/1958). I have never seen an obit..........HOWEVER..........and this is the really exciting stuff!
My grandfather, John Thomas Hutton (Jack) was heavily featured in the State Library of NSW Exhibition of WW1 diaries as his diaries were considered to be amazing examples of war diaries, and I was invited by Sunrise (who I knocked back)...and I accepted invitations by SMH (front page), ABC (a 2 minute interview segment on the news), and ABC radio......a very small sound grab on Richard Glover's special.
I was recently approached by a documentary producer and there will be a doco in April featuring 2 minutes of my grandfather's diary. I have supplied photos for this.
I am currently writing my father's funeral (as a celebrant I get to do his service tomorrow...he is a Shepherd), and he kept saying he wanted to be with his wonderful Rose........who is Jack's daughter.
Cheers
Susie
-
So sorry to hear of the death of your father Susie please asccept my deepest sympathy
I did remember there were indeed two John Thomas Huttons
I should have been more specific and referred my comments thus to Merrelyn ...
A wonderfull history and thread
warm regards Jenn
-
Thank you Jenn and Susie.
As you mentioned, this is a most wonderful and extensive post. So the John Thomas HUTTON that I am interested in is the mystery person - only in that it is a mystery what happened to his children after 1898 - who was born in 13 October 1863 in Gluepot, Blue Mountain, Victoria and died in Inverell, New South Wales on the 2 June 1946. He had four children with Ellen Keleher, of whom one was Robert Francis HUTTON (1891-1998).
So, Susie, your great grandfather, John Thomas is the also the great grandfather of my son-in-law, Ryan.
Thank you on the information re Ellen in the asylum and the children being looked after by the nuns in Corowa. Do you know when John Thomas arrived in Corowa?
Obviously, with Ellen going into the asylum just after Robert's birth, someone must have looked after the children and Robert would only have been a baby.
Obviously a bit more searching to do.
Thank you again. My thoughts are with you Susie.
Kind regards
Merrelyn
-
Hi Merrelyn,
John Thomas (Senior) was listed as a shopkeeper in Corowa (by memory it was in a gazette) before Ellen was released from the asylum, but when he moved across, I have no idea of the exact date.
It is possible that the Kellehers (Ellen's family) looked after the kids while John worked.......both parents were still alive and in Waratah.
John's father had died in 1880 and his mother had remarried in 1883 and subsequently (but I am not yet sure when) moved to Victoria where she died.......her story is pretty amazing......so, my bet would be that it was either friends or Ellen's family that looked after the kids in Waratah.
John (senior) also remarried.......and had more children and I am still in touch with his grand daughter from that marriage. His 2nd marriage certificate states that he is a widower, but I cannot locate a death for Ellen anywhere for him to claim that.
When I have some more time, I will re-read this thread and fill in some of the gaps.
I am assuming that Ryan is John's (Senior) son Robert's grandson????
I have attached a photo of John (Senior) with one of his sons........and I don't know if it is my grandfather, John (Jack) or Robert......but here he is in all of his glory.
Cheers
Susie
-
Thank you Susie. I have seen a photo of Ryan's father when he was a young man and the similarity - to me - is quite uncanny. I will start following up to see if I can find the Corowa information.
Kind regards
Merrelyn
-
John started out as a tin dresser at the Bischoff Tin Mine in Waratah, Tas before becoming a barber/tobacconist and then set up a shop in Waratah. He then moved to Corowa, again opening a barber/tobacconist shop before he settled finally in Inverell NSW where he again opened a barber/tobacconist shop.....in his spare time he apparently was a trapeze artist!
Susie on a another thread
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article150324277
Mr John HUTTON, hairdresser, Waratah 1890
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article39545723
Same incident but John is described as a hairdresser and tobacconist.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article90228350
Launceston Examiner 24 Mar 1893
FOR SALE-The well-known barbering and tobacconist business owned by Mr John Hutton, Main-street, Waratah, doing a first-class trade, owner leaving the district.
Particulars from E. GOLDSMITH, Waratah.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article99420200
Mention of a John HUTTON at Corowa in 1897
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article99972170
John HUTTON a tobacconist at Corowa 1898
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article99849882
A John HUTTON involved in an accident 1900
New South Wales Electoral Roll 1903
HUTTON John Thomas Corowa Barber
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article99839580
John HUTTON sells his shop 1907
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article98791006 1908 :-\ :-\ Not apparent in your photo so doubtful it is your John.
Inverell, Tuesday.- John Hutton, a hairdresser, was driving with some friends on Sunday last, when a greyhound which he had in the vehicle attempted to jump out, and got entangled in the wheel. Hutton tried to release hint, but the brute snapped Hutton's hand, biting the middle finger of the right hand clean off below the nail. Hutton subsequently had the finger amputated at the first joint.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16801452
Fire destroys John HUTTON hairdressing shop Inverell 1931
There's probably more but it's late for me ;)
Cando
-
Hi Cando,
Many thanks.........you are amazing!
And yes, I think it is the same one who lost his finger as my photo would have been taken years before.
I am knackered after the funeral. Shattered actually, so today I will just rest. xxxx
Susie
-
Hi Susie :)
Yes rest...a very emotional time for you. We need a hug smiley on here.
I decided to trawl the newspapers as Merrelyn was interested in any evidence from his time in Corowa.
Perhaps we found some of this previously Susie. Can't remember and I don't think our earlier emails survived the transfer when I installed my latest computer.
Cheers
Cando
-
Hi Susie :)
Perhaps we found some of this previously Susie. Can't remember and I don't think our earlier emails survived the transfer when I installed my latest computer.
My emails certainly haven't survived Cando.......but if i remember correctly.......and my brain isn't functioning wonderfully today.......the Trove offerings weren't as abundant then, and I rang the Corowa Historical Society and after some time they found an article mentioning John. The Trove entries suggest what i had suspected, that John was long gone before Ellen was released.
He is listed as Hairdresser shop owner in Waratah in the Post Office Directory 1890-1891 (http://catalogue.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/RD/?series=postoffice&thumb=49600 page 145.
So......when he travelled across must be between 1893 when he is selling his hairdressing shop and 1897 when he is accounted for in Corowa. He certainly wasn't living in Tasmania when Ellen had the next child.
Now to find her death.......it is still a mystery.......I did get the Tasmanian BDM to do a search (charged well too!) and they couldn't locate her.......so, I think I need to go to Tassie and spend some time with my nose in the records!
Susie xx
http://catalogue.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/RD/?series=postoffice&thumb=49600
-
Hi Everyone
I am amazed at the depth of information provided here so generously. Thank you.
I have been slowly going through all the posts and working out where everyone fits - particularly for Robert Francis, but all the siblings also provide great information.
I have been trying to confirm more of the links to Corowa in order to prove or disprove the family story that Robert was abandoned in Waratah and lived in the stables behind the butcher.
Anyway, as part of my travels I found this link:
http://stmaryscorowa.org/2013/12/02/1978-parish-history-ch-10/
which, in part, states:
"ST PATRICK’S, BALLDALE
The first settler at Balldale was Charles Henry Knight. He came from Melbourne to the goldfields at Beechworth by bullock cart, then worked for a short time on Gulliver’s “Lilliput” station before settling at Balldale in 1848. He married Ann Gulliver from “Lilliput” and their descendants remained in the district for over one hundred years. At a later stage the Browns, Kaines and Grenells came."
I am suggesting that the first settler, Charles, is possible related to James Bernard KNIGHT who married Mary Victoria HUTTON.
Kind regards
Merrelyn
-
I am suggesting that the first settler, Charles, is possible related to James Bernard KNIGHT who married Mary Victoria HUTTON.
Oh, Merrelyn...............I actually knew Aunty Mary.......she and my mother (her niece) were close and Aunty Mary died in 1973.
She was bought up by the Catholic nuns, and then taught at the school. She also was a tight rope walker and a trapeze artist.....both skills she learned from John Thomas (Sen) and which she passed on to her son Teddy, who traveled the world with Circuses.
"I have been trying to confirm more of the links to Corowa in order to prove or disprove the family story that Robert was abandoned in Waratah and lived in the stables behind the butcher. "
I remember talking to Uncle Teddy (who was born in Balldale/Corowa) and him talking about his uncle Robert......and Teddy saying that all the kids were looked after by the nuns......but I can't confirm for you that Robert went with them to Corowa.
I wonder if there are shipping records of that time? Or the owners name of the butchers shop in Waratah, to see if it was possibly a relative. It would be wonderful if you could find out the full story.
Cheers
Susie xx
-
And here is Aunty Mary Knight (the daughter of John Thomas Hutton (senior) and Robert and John Thomas (Junior) or as we called him....Jack..... Hutton's sister.
With her beloved husband Jim Knight, and one old and one young Aunty Mary.
Cheers
Susie