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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: ruthamy05 on Friday 03 October 08 00:38 BST (UK)

Title: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Friday 03 October 08 00:38 BST (UK)

Looking for any information that will help me find this family from the Donegore area. Some of the births of the children say born in Ballywee - some Ballyclare - it does appear to be that area of Antrim.

John Bryson b1764 married before 1788 ( unknown) Wilson??
then: about 1810-1812 married Mary McCune of County Down
children-first wife:
James Bryson b?? ( desperately looking for this child's family), I know he died in Ireland before 1836 - his father(John) leaves a legacy to the children in his will of 1836.
Mary b ?? married name Warrick ( one known child - Mary J. Warrick), both alive 1836.
Margaret b 1788, mrd William Barr abt 1810 Ireland - came to America 1817 (would I be able to find any record of marriage for this couple - my ggrands)
Jane, b 1798, died Ireland before 1838, married James Ferguson....I am desperately looking for some burial or death info on her.
John by 1800, married Mary Houston Ireland - child Charles, b 1828 Ireland
Charles b 1809 Ireland
Children second wife:
Agnes b 1812, Isabella 1814, William 1816, Eliza 1818, Ann Jane 1820, David 1822 - all born Ireland.

Family left Antrim in 1830 for America- John and wife #2 Mary brought all of the children except: James, Mary and Jane.....looking for anyone with connections to any of these families, especially the three left in Ireland. Are there any records that would help me find these 3 children? And/or any info on any of the family before they left in 1836?

Any bit of help would be most appreciated.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Christopher on Friday 03 October 08 03:01 BST (UK)

Hello ruthamy,

There are several items which need to be established when searching for Irish ancestors.

1. Denomination ... this is important as it's the first step in finding church records.
2. Parish ... step two in your search. Once you've established the denomination you need to find the churches in that particular parish as well as making enquiries about the existence of records for the period you are researching. You should be able to find these details online ... make a note of where such records are held.
3. Townland ... this can range in size from an acre to several thousand acres. In a great many cases the name of a townland referred to an identifiable feature of the landscape ... properties may or may not have had names but it's unlikely they were numbered as they may have been in towns and cities when your ancestor's were living.

You'll have to rely on Church records when searching for this list of ancestors as they were born prior to the introduction of Civil Registration in Ireland which started in 1864. Marriages of Non Catholic were registered from 1845 onwards.

Christopher

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: BallyaltikilliganG on Monday 06 October 08 08:52 BST (UK)

Hi Ruthamy05,
Where to look, have you tried www.proni.gov.uk
which has microfilm of Donegore Presbyterian (1st) Antrim 79 Donegore (2nd) Antrim 153
and other non records eg Donegore O[rdnance] S[urvey] Memoir D3677

I went searching, one can sense that researchers have been working on the www.familysearch.com has an entry under John F McClary in USA 1880 census for Mary BRYSON MotherL W Female W 83 IRE At Home IRE IRE . this made me wonder was this your Mary follow on later to Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Jane Bryson (AFN: 9RSJ-5F) has the submitters name available. I noticed the entries for Charles Bryson ie Charles H. Bryson Birth: 15 APR 1828 Of, , Antrim, Ireland
Marriages: Spouse: Isabella Cuddy Family Marriage: About 1853 Of, , Antrim, Ireland: Record post 1991 by a member
and of the census for Challes BRYSON Self M Male W 74 IRE Farmer IRE IRE I think the IRE daughters age
questionable West Deer, Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Then I came across
Nancy Bryson Birth: 1821 Of Donegore, , Antrim, Ireland Marriages: Spouse: James Boyd Family
Marriage: 04 JAN 1842 Donegore, , Antrim, Ireland Record submitted after 1991 by a mwember
again the David Bryson entries as expected. However at that I ran out of steam.

Donegore is being looked at elsewhere on Rootschat, I think there is also a book about the area. I noted that Donegore civilparish is surrounded by in the north Connor civil parish, to the East by Kilbride civil parish, to the west by Aghagallonntrim, and to the South by the grange of Nilteen. and from www.ballynagarrick.net/ulsterancestors/Donegore.htm Donegore ‘s townlands include Ballyclaverty, Ballygowan, Ballynoe, Ballysavage, Ballywee, Ballywoodock, Browndod, Cromy and Taggarts Land , Donegore itself, Drumagorgan, Dunamuggy Durham's Land, Ferguson's Land, Freemanstown, Halftown, Rathbeg, Rathmore, Taggarts Land and Cromy , Tobergill
sorry I cant help further
Good luck onwards, Jim

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Tuesday 07 October 08 01:09 BST (UK)

Jim,
Thanks so much for taking the time to look at this. I actually looked at the Jane Bryson one, and I am quite sure she is my Jane. I tried writing to the person listed as the submitter and even contacted the LDS..they had no idea who the person was or what the Medieval Family listing means....so I got no where with that.

I very much appreciate your taking the time to check these, I appreciate the townland listings, we have other references that show the family was from "Ballywee", certainly not someplace I am able to locate today.

I sure would love to fiind a connection, hopefully one day!

Thanks again for your help.

Ruth

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: BallyaltikilliganG on Tuesday 07 October 08 08:37 BST (UK)

I sense wrongly or rightly you haven’t seen enough images of Ballywee to believe its there.
If you want to see what Ballywee looks like, you have about 3 choices, the best of which are the
1.Maps
•   Ordnance Survey maps, scale 6 inch to the mile, First series date ~1835
•   Ordnance Survey maps, scale 6 inch to the mile, First Revision to the First series ~1860., If you are lucky one A3 size photocopy will contain and show the boundaries of the townland. The latter map shows individual fields etc.
The way to acquire these is to write or email the local history section of the area Education and Library Board that includes County Antrim, you would need to be patient as you don’t know the sheet number, they can find this if they know the civil Parish ie Donegore. You would need to ask for an estimate of copying it by what ever means available to that library unit ie a photocopier or a digital camera. The flat sheet maps are probably stamped copyright Public Record Office of NI, or are the Original printed version that were bound up into County volumes. I think it is wise unless you can afford the best, to say at this stage it is wanted as a working copy for private use. The paper sheet of either map cited above is not copyrighted and can be copied. I got this clearly stated to me this year. You may have to pay for post and packing eg a tube starts to get expensive, or ask them to fold the photocopy to a suitable size for posting to wherever you live’
However the PRONI and OSNI are currently co-producing at test stage an annotated digital version, of the 6 inch series . That will be copyright protected.
1.Maps continued 'On the internet'
•   Go to Google type in Ballywee Rd, Parkgate, Ballyclare, Antrim BT39, and up comes a b&w road map, showing that Ballyweee Road runs from Connor Road to Hollybank Road, but you wont see Ballywee Townland as such. You can switch to satellite view but it is blurred at the magnification you might want, however Muckamore is just coming into view bottom left hand corner and you will see the satellite in sharp focus.. There will be a reason for that blur, but I dont know.
•   Type in http://staging.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_start.php. Somewhere it says search by surname or Place , try place. If you are really lucky they may have done your area What you get is Griffiths valuation maps of about 1860 ie the 6 inch , with all the occupiers listed
2.Photographs
•   Go to the Google search engine type in Ballywee and then go to the Images heading, there are 4 relevant. Better than nothing
•   Sorry run out of time, Jim

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: BallyaltikilliganG on Tuesday 07 October 08 23:04 BST (UK)

Brilliant news
Ballywee townland is on http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php
Jim

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Wednesday 08 October 08 00:42 BST (UK)

Jim,
Thanks again, this is really great stuff. I checked out the Griffiths info on Ballywee. Much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ruth

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Bemac on Sunday 19 October 08 13:11 BST (UK)

hello ruthamy,
Don't know if this is of any use to you.

Had the opportunity to go to Parkgate yesterday and called into the cemetery at Dunamuggy,Donegore 2 Presbyterian.
Although I could not find anything on the Brysons you mentioned
I did find graves for
i) Robert and Martha Bryson plus sons John and Francis
ii) Francis and Elizabeth Bryson and children Francis,Ellen Maria,Margaret,Elizabeth,Alexander and John.

There was no sign of anything for Fergusons
For Warrick,nothing. There are quite a few for Warwick,possibly altered down the years.

By coincidence,the notice outside the church states a Miss S Warwick as Church Officer living next door.Tried calling but no one at home.

I,m only a couple of miles from Parkgate so if there is anything of interest let me know.

Bemac

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Sunday 19 October 08 21:43 BST (UK)

Dear Bemac,
Thank you so very much. That was so kind and thoughtful of you to take the time to do this. It isn't likely I will ever have the opportunity to visit any of these wonderful places. Your time is most appreciated.

I look at how close all of these places are and think that the Bryson, Wilson, Warrick etc families all had to have been related in some way.

It is very frustratring that there are very few records available for these early times. I was told that the records of Kilbride and Donegore Churches were destroyed. Cemetery records are what ever can be found on tombstones ( if they can still be read). I'm not giving up hope of finding my family, I know there has to be someone or something that
will give me the clue/info I need.

I thank you again for your kindness and I will certainly add this family to my list of Bryson's.

Warmest Regards and a big thank you

Ruth

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: jmcmh on Wednesday 29 October 08 00:40 GMT (UK)

Ruth - something that might interest you - our church, First Donegore Presbyterian Church, is in the process of preparing a book on the history of the church and district back to 1627 when the church was formed. It originally met in the Donegore Church of Ireland and eventually moved to the nearby village of Parkgate. This book should be published sometime next year. Names like Bryson, Wilson, Ferguson, Warwick etc crop up quite frequently in the book.
Second Donegore Presbyterian Church has recently published a book "A History of Second Donegore Presbyterian Church" in which similar names appear, covering the history of that congregation from around the mid 17 hundreds.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Thursday 30 October 08 00:50 GMT (UK)

This is wonderful info, I would be very interested in buying this
when it is ready. Please let me know how I can get info on doing
that.

Thanks again for taking the time to pass this info on to me. I am most appreciative.

Regards
Ruth

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Ladygrey on Sunday 19 July 09 18:10 BST (UK)

hI

I noticed some chat re Bryson on the rootschat site .
I happened to be at the cemetary at Dunnamuggy today while looking for my Great grandfathers headstone and saw 2 Bryson headstones.
I have attached photos which if you zoom in you will see pretty well all the inscriptions.

Good Luck

Seems the attachment is too large, if you wish to let me have an email address I will send them

Brian McGregor

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: turbonator on Tuesday 18 August 09 13:47 BST (UK)

I have been to Connor Cemetery a couple of times and there are some Warwick graves there. If you check www.thebraid.co.uk they list the headstones in Connor cemetery.
Hope this helps

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Wednesday 19 August 09 00:18 BST (UK)

Thank you for the information. I will check this out for sure.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: turbonator on Wednesday 19 August 09 07:40 BST (UK)

No problem. I also have the telephone number of the caretaker of the graveyard who can tell you when a grave was bought and by whom. Let me know if you need it.
Amanda

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Tuesday 26 July 16 11:24 BST (UK)

Ruth- I came across this link with connections to my Ferguson ancestors, and seems to say Agnes Gawn, who married Francis Ferguson, had a brother John and their uncle was a John Bryson (possibly their mother was a Bryson.

Agnes and Francis were married in 1st Donegore Presbyterian Church 10 May 1821
Hope that might help, Anne

http://www.gawnfamilystory.co.uk/WillofJohnGawn1822A.htm

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Tuesday 02 August 16 22:31 BST (UK)

There is a book called, “Records of the Clan and Name of Fergusson, Ferguson and Fergus” published in 1895. There was a supplements to the book published in 1899. Both have sections on the Fergusons of the Parkgate/Doagh area (there were two possibly unrelated families – I’m connected to both).

The supplements has this to say about the James Ferguson who married Jane Bryson:

“James (1798-1862), son of Adam of Ballywee, migrating Penn., USA, 1845, m. 1st Jane Bryson, and had issue – Thomas, Jane, Margret, and Ellen; 2nd, Ann McKee, and had issue – James McKee, Francis, and Martha.”

The above fits with the First Donegore church records, though there was another son called James born in 1832 who must have died young.

I’m not sure exactly when James married Rose Ann McKee, but their first child was James McKee Ferguson born in 1838. So Jane Bryson must have died between 1832-1838 and is probably buried at Donegore.

Anne – are you a descendant of Francis Ferguson and Agnes Gawn? There’s a good chance Agnes’ maternal grandparents were James Bryson (c1746-1832) and Elizabeth ? (c1745-1831) - headstone in Kilbride Burying-ground.

Also, Ballywee is sometimes called Ballyvoy. And the townland is split across two parishes. Both of which makes it a little more confusing.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 03:42 BST (UK)

Hi

I am glad Gilby mentioned that Ballywee is sometimes noted as Ballyvoy. In a hurried post on the midantrim acncestry site I mistyped Ballyvoy as Ballyboy, when I noted the Gawn,Bryson and Ferguson connections. I was also meant to mention that there have been discussions on Fergusons in this site by Gilby.

John Bryson of Ballyvoy Kilbride died ?3 Sep 1859 (though I have a not that the will may have been written 1839).John mentions his brother James Bryson in the USA, who has a son Robert. John also had a brother Robert. Also sister Mrs Elizabeth Mackey wife of William of Grahamstown.

There are wills for Brysons and Fergusons of Kilbride in PRONI.

Cheers

Linda

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 03:56 BST (UK)

Hi Ruth,

The Kilbride cemetery burials are available online. There are Brysons in many plots. In plot 164 is a Robert Bryson who died 1836 aged 86 and an Elizabeth who died 1831 aged 86. I think the Joice in the same plot who died in 1862 aged 75 was the Aunt Joice also mentioned in the will of John Bryson of Ballyvoy. Another location mentioned in later burials in plot 164 is Duncansland.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 04:32 BST (UK)

Hi Ruthamy,

I have just checked my Mid-antrim Ancestry notifications and see that the person who has posted their interest in this family does not match your name though is a new researcher. If you are not connected then there is someone else researching the exact same family Bryson/Wilson/McCune/McKelvey.

If you are also researching McKelvey, that is one of my Drummaul families that actually connects to my branch of the Gawns. My Gawn family is from Dunsilly but connect to the Donegore Gawns back around 1750. As that connection is not established I keep the Donegore Gawns in a separate tree. I would have to look in that tree for the Agnes Gawn that Gilby mentions married Francis Ferguson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 05:49 BST (UK)

Hi Ann,

Gilby is perfectly correct it was James Bryson, (not Robert) in plot 164 Killbride who was buried 1 Aug 1836 aged 86 and I presume his wife was Elizabeth who was buried 31 Jan 1831 aged 86.

It was the Joice Bryson in this plot that makes me think that James and Elizabeth Bryson were the grandparents of Agnes and John Gawn whose will you posted as a link. There is another will of John Bryson of Ballyvoy who also mentions an Aunt Joice Bryson, a sister Martha Thompson deceased, a brother James Bryson in the USA, a sister Elizabeth Mackey wife of William, and a brother Robert Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Wednesday 03 August 16 11:04 BST (UK)

Thanks for helpful information. I am new to this and researching my father Frank Ferguson's side (age 93). His father was James Milliken Ferguson b 1887 married Sara(h) Jane Foster; Grandfather was William John Ferguson b c 1854 married Kate /Katherine Milliken; I believe Frank's Great grandfather was Francis Ferguson but do not have proof yet, although Gawn family tree makes it likely. If so, Francis married Mary Scott, and predeceased his father, Francis who was married to Agnes Gawn. I live in Australia, am keen to purchase Donegore Church records and view any gravestone information around Donegore/Kilbride/ Parkgate. I will be in Co Antrim in September for two weeks only and would greatly value any leads or information prior to my trip. My father Frank was raised at Ballyvoy Lodge, Doagh/Ballyclare, his father James Milliken F had inherited the farm when brother Frank died a young man. 1901 and 1911 census returns confirm as far back as William John. I am most keen to verify which Ferguson lineage is correct, Many thanks Anne

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 03 August 16 11:43 BST (UK)

Looks like this might be the 2 Francis Fergusons you mentioned?

The Will of Francis Ferguson late of Holestone in the County of Antrim Farmer deceased who died 25 January 1858 at Holestone aforesaid was proved at Belfast by the oaths of Mary Ferguson Widow William Scott and James Ferguson Farmers all of said place three of the Executors. Will dated 3 Nov.1857 mentions wife Mary, son William John, daughters Jane B, Nancy G & Mary Eliza, executor Samuel Ferguson of Parkgate & James Ferguson of Holestone, etc. You can view the wording of the entire Will-
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx

Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Francis Ferguson late of Holestone in the County of Antrim Farmer a Widower deceased who died 13 September 1866 at Straypark near Holestone aforesaid were granted at Belfast to Thomas Ferguson of Doagh in the County of Antrim Surgeon the Son and one of the next of kin of said deceased.

The Will of Thomas Ferguson late of Doagh County Antrim Surgeon who died 18 February 1890 at same place was proved at Belfast by James Coleman Ferguson of 164 York-street Belfast M.D. and Mary Agnes Ferguson of Doagh Spinster the surviving Executors. You can also view his Will with the above link.

There is this extract which mentions a son William John, etc.- The Will of Thomas Ferguson (Senior) late of Ballywee west County Antrim Farmer who died 8 July 1887 at same place was proved at Belfast by Samuel Milliken (Junior) of Tobergill and James M'Connell of Ballysavage both in said County Farmers the surviving Executors.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 13:14 BST (UK)

Ann,

If you contact William Gawn of the Gawn family history site, he may have more info on Francis Ferguson than is shown on his website. Williams family have been farming in the area from the time of his Ancestor Andrew Gawn.

Thank you aghadowey for those wills

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 03 August 16 14:04 BST (UK)

There are lots more relevant will extracts on the site but I just posted a few as I'm not sure if Anne is looking for more information.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 14:05 BST (UK)

Thomas Ferguson (1828-1890), son of Francis Ferguson (1791-1866) and Agnes Gawn, married Mary Coleman. James Coleman Ferguson was their son.

I have got James Milliken Ferguson as the son of Francis Ferguson and Mary (I did not know her surname was Scott) in my Donegore Gawn tree. Billy Gawn and his mother were my original sources of all my Donegore Gawn information in the 1980s so it is not my own research. Though I did look up these Ferguson and Bryson wills earlier this year, as well as the Kilbride burials for Bryson. For some reason I wanted to sort out the Brysons though I do not have any direct connection. The Kilbride Bryson plot 164 has Strawpark as well as Duncansland locations. I did not look up Ferguson burials.

I see there is another tree in Ancestry that has a different wife for Francis Ferguson senior, not Agnes Gawn.

If Francis and Agnes Ferguson's daughter Jane B Ferguson was Jane Bryson Ferguson, and her sister Nancy G Ferguson was Nancy (Agnes) Gawn Ferguson, then I think that would support the Gawn version of this family.

Gilby may be able to add more about this branch of Fergusons.

Cheers

Linda

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 August 16 14:18 BST (UK)

Going back to the gawnfamilystory website, I see that Jane B Ferguson is not Jane Bryson Ferguson, but Jane Bigger Ferguson. Possibly a clue to other connections of this Ferguson family. Nancy though was Nancy Gawn Ferguson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 03 August 16 21:40 BST (UK)

Anne, your Ferguson family does not feature in the Ferguson book(s) but they are well accounted for in the First Donegore church records.

You great grandfather William John Ferguson was born on the 4th July 1854 and baptised on the 31st August 1854. As you suspected his parents were Francis Ferguson and Mary Scott.

Francis and Mary married in 1849:

Belfast Newsletter 10 Feb 1849
On the 8th inst., in Donegore Presbyterian Church, by the Re. S. S. Allison, Mr. Francis Ferguson, jun., Holestone, to Miss Mary Scott, eldest daughter of William Scott, Esq., of same place.

The church records have Francis as being of Upper Holestone and Mary of Lower Holestone. Again according to the church records, Francis was born on the 22nd May 1825 and baptised on the 2nd June 1825. Parents Francis Ferguson and Agnes Gawn.

Francis senior, of Holestone, married Agnes Gawn of Ballyvoy (aka Ballywee) on the 10th May 1821. Unfortunately their fathers’ names are not recorded, so that’s as far as I’ve been able to get on that Ferguson line.

Have you by any chance had a male member of your Ferguson family y-DNA tested? I’m pretty sure there has already been some testing of these Ferguson families, so the results might show which of the Fourmileburn Ferguson families Francis belonged to.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Wednesday 03 August 16 22:25 BST (UK)

Thanks everyone, all helpful. Our family burial plot is Donegore St Johns C of I and I will be visiting there in September. Would anyone know if there is a grave index for this churchground? I also think 1st Donegore Presbyterian may hold some keys to the mystery as both Francis Jnr and Francis Snr appear to have been married there (according to Gawn family tree) and I would very much like to obtain the book mentioned earlier in this thread. The name Mary Scott reappears again in later generations, as one of William John's daughters was Mary Scott so that adds a bit more weight to the case. I am only beginning to research this. Although there is a general belief with some in my family that my Ferguson links are back to the John Ferguson/E Gilliland line, I do not see any evidence for this. At an initial glance at the Clan Ferguson records 1885 the Francis F in that lineage lived in Glasgow and so does not fit. I haven't found the Supplemental yet on line but will keep looking. I will also try to contact Billy/William Gawn. All assistance appreciated, Anne

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Wednesday 03 August 16 22:44 BST (UK)

Thanks Gilby, that confirms what I thought. My father Frank recently had yDNA testing and I have submitted results to the Ferguson project, and am awaiting results. Thanks so much for your information. I will also follow up on headstones when I am in Northern Ireland, though I have such limited time. Do you think all the Fergusons came from Four Mile burn and Ferguson's Land? I have also checked the Hearth Money Rolls and there are Fergusons at Holestone. A good map of the old parishes and townlands would be helpful if you can suggest anything. I am an overseas member of the Linen Hall library. Most grateful for your help, Anne

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 04 August 16 22:11 BST (UK)

Anne,

Good to hear your Dad got the yDNA test done. Hopefully he matches someone that has already been tested.

The best maps are the Griffiths Valuation maps which you can view for free here:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

Just search something (I pick a county and click search) then click on the Map View option. You can overlay a modern map (including satellite imagery) over the old map (which dates to around 1860-1880 I think).

You can also see the c1830s ordnance survey map for free on the OSI website using their Geohive viewer.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 04 August 16 22:43 BST (UK)

I have photographs of your Ferguson headstones at Donegore by the way. If you want to send me your email address (by private message) I can send them to you. Your family is buried just down the hill from the side entrance to the church.

I would also surmise that Francis Ferguson was quite likely a descendant of John Ferguson and Ellen Gilliland – but I don’t know where he fits in. Maybe the connections is even further back. The Francis John Ferguson you mentioned was probably born in Belfast – he just died in Glasgow.

My Ferguson family is the one detailed in “Note B” in the Supplements book. Apparently one descendant of William Shaw Ferguson believed his family to have come from Crumlin and to have had no connection to the Fergusons already living in the Parkgate area. However, the submitter than says he had strong evidence to suggest that William Shaw Ferguson was elder son of Adam Ferguson.

My take on it is that William Shaw Ferguson was actually a younger son (I have found dates which suggest he was younger than Adam of Ballywee) and that when a descendant said he thought his family was unrelated he may have been talking about Adam Ferguson of Fourmileburn as having come from Crumlin.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 05 August 16 13:11 BST (UK)

Just to note that there is another Gawn marriage to Bryson. On the Gawnfamilystory site there is a transcription of the Kilbride headstone of James Gawn, copied in part below:

Also to the erector James Gawn who died 8th December 1816 aged 50 years

Also James Gawn, son of the erector died 28th December 1835, aged 34 years.

Also grandson, James Bryson, died 19th march 1850, aged 22yrs.

This grandson James Bryson was the son of Robert Bryson and Eleanor Gawn. I have just tracked his brother John Alexander Gawn b 1825 to Canada where he died in Ottawa in 1895, leaving a wife, Mary nee Gamble, two sons and 4 daughters, including a daughter Eleanor Gawn Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Friday 05 August 16 22:57 BST (UK)

Thanks Gilby I have sent you a PM and would be very pleased to see photographs of the headstones at Donegore. I believe the family were all Presbyterian, and may have been buried at C of I as perhaps the other churches were built later, but I am not sure. Anne

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 11 September 16 09:40 BST (UK)

I’ve just been looking back at the first post here. Presumably the will of John Bryson (written 1836?) survives – in America? Has anyone seen it, or know if it is online anywhere? I’m curious to know what it says about the son James (i.e. is there any evidence he had a family).

I’ve also just examined my notes to see if I have any James Brysons of the right period, and there are these two newspaper notices which may or may not be relevant:

Belfast Commercial Chronicle , 12 Mar 1825
On the 4th instant, Miss Jemima, third daughter of Mr. John Swan, of Killealy, in the parish of Killead, to Mr. James Bryson, of Drumall, in the county Antrim.

Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.

There’s also these First Donegore marriages:

James Brison, Ballybracken, to Anne McConnel, Ballyvoy = 19th Jan 1829
James Brison, Holestone, to Martha Anne McConnell, Ballywee = 5th Jul 1831

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 11 September 16 18:54 BST (UK)

Quote from: Gilby on Tuesday 02 August 16 22:31 BST (UK)

Also, Ballywee is sometimes called Ballyvoy. And the townland is split across two parishes. Both of which makes it a little more confusing.

I’m coming to the conclusion that it is not as simple as Ballywee = Ballyvoy. Certainly a lot of people in Ballywee seem to also be of Ballyvoy, but there’s also people of “Duncansland, Ballyvoy” and I’ve just found this on placenamesni.org:

“The townland of Walkmill is named from a mill which still stands on the west bank of the Doagh River and appears to be the feature which is referred to as a ‘Fulling Mill’ in the Confirmation of the Chichester Patents in 1669 (Confirm. Chichester Pats 131) where it is stated to be in the townland of Ballyboy alias Ballyvoy. The latter is clearly to be identified with a now-obsolete townland which is referred to as Ballyvoy in the Ordnance Survey Memoir of 1836 (OSM xxix 154) and which appears to have included the modern townland of Walkmill, along with the neighbouring townlands of Burnside, Douglasland and Owensland. The name Ballyvoy may derive from Irish Béal Átha Buí ‘mouth of the yellow ford’ or Baile Átha Buí ‘townland of the yellow ford’, referring to a ford on the Doagh River here.”

So I think the old townland of Ballyvoy (which would have been pretty huge) probably included Walkmill, Burnside, Owensland, Douglasland, Duncansland, the Kilbride (eastern) part of Ballywee, and presumably Moss-side and Strawpark in between.

I don’t know why some families continued to use the name Ballyvoy while their neighbours adopted the new townland names. All very confusing.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 11 September 16 20:05 BST (UK)

John Bryson of Ballybracken was married to Margaret Ballah. I’ve just noticed the will of Elizabeth Ballah of Ballyvoy (1885) on PRONI. It mentions her Bryson relatives, Wilson relatives and Ballah relatives. It’s one of those really useful wills that will help tie several families together.

However, the second page of the will is partly missing. Does anyone know if I was to view it at PRONI would it be legible or is part of the page simply missing?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 21 September 16 08:23 BST (UK)

I see that Elizabeth's brother James Ballagh of Ballyvoy notes that he had 7 sisters and a brother John. From Elizabeth's will at least two sisters married Wilsons and from James will it appears that one of John's daughters ? Sarah or Hannah, married a Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 21 September 16 20:57 BST (UK)

Yup. I haven't got around to filling in all of the Ballah descendants yet, but I did find that not only did Elizabeth write an excellent will (for genealogists), she also erected a fantastic headstone which I recently saw in Donegore:

Erected
by
ELIZABETH BALLAH
of Ballyvoy
in memory of her grandparents
JAMES BALLAH
of Ballybracken, died 5th June, 1791
Aged 76 years
her grandmother MARY CRAIG
died 14th September, 1798
Aged 78 years
her father ROBERT BALLAH
of Ballyvoy, died 22nd September, 1821
Aged 68 years
her mother, AGNES BELL
died ?th March 1852
Aged 86 years.
Her brother, JAMES BALLAH,
of ballyvoy, died 8th October, 1859,
Aged 68 years.
Her sister JANE BUCHANAN,
of Ballymena, died 17th June, 1864
Aged 79 years.
The above named ELIZABETH BALLAH,
died 1st October 1885,
Aged 85 years.

Kudos to Elizabeth Ballah!

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 25 September 16 11:36 BST (UK)

Anne,

Just for the record, your father has shown up as a distant DNA match to my father. If your ancestor Francis Ferguson (c1791-1886) was a son of John Ferguson of Fourmileburn or Samuel Ferguson of Standingstone, then your father would be a 6th cousin 2x removed of my father's.

It's all too distant to think of it as proof of anything, but it is interesting I think. I'll send you an email.

Gilby

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Tuesday 27 September 16 13:28 BST (UK)

from Cemetries Department Newtownabbey I got this information on Fergusons

They are all in Kilbride Old Cemetery:-

417
02/08/1906 42 SARAH FERGUSON

418
26/04/1902 59 ANDREW FERGUSON

419
22/08/1901 7 ANDREW FERGUSON

420
21/11/1905 76 MARY SCOTT FERGUSON

421
02/12/1910 ? MARY J FERGUSON
25/09/1934 89 JOHN FERGUSON
14/01/1897 77 SAMUEL FERGUSON

According to some family letters and history I have come across the above resided at Balybracken. Further information:
John Ferguson of Doagh had two boys 1. Andrew 2. Sam
Sams's first marriage he had 3 boys, two went to Australia, the third son John married a Wilson (aunt of Mrs Mahood and Bob Wilson)
Sam's second marriage was to Mary Scott Ferguson (whose first marriage was to Francis Ferguson) and their second marriage produced one son, Andrew who had 8 children
Mary Scott's first marriage to Francis Fergusn - they had 4 children, daughter Jenny married James Bryson, Nancy married McIlroy, Mary, and William John (my great, great grandfather)
Not sure if relevant to anyone, I noticed the names Bryson and Wilson. The second marriages make it more complicated on the Ferguson side too.
Anne

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 27 September 16 16:49 BST (UK)

possibly the above Mary J Ferguson died 3rd Dec 1910 Ballywee informant Samuel Mahood nephew
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05414/4512822

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 27 September 16 17:04 BST (UK)

Does anyone know what became of Jemima?

Belfast Commercial Chronicle , 12 Mar 1825
On the 4th instant, Miss Jemima, third daughter of Mr. John Swan, of Killealy, in the parish of Killead, to Mr. James Bryson, of Drumall, in the county Antrim.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: AnneFerguson on Tuesday 27 September 16 20:48 BST (UK)

Yes, most likely the same Mary J Ferguson as recorded at Kilbride, thanks, Anne

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: stevenson on Thursday 06 October 16 22:41 BST (UK)

ruthamy05.......I am unable to confirm information for you ......as you have not been online for many years I will still continue to look for you and yours.

hallmark...intresting find.....got me worried about Jemima.....think we need to find her.

Kudos to Elizabeth Ballah!....Hear Hear

Bryson - Wilson links to
Gardiner Alexander Stevenson Ballha Porter Neilson McMceekin Wilson Blain O'Neill etc etc

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 13 October 16 18:56 BST (UK)

Samuel Ferguson who married Mary Ferguson (née Scott) – both on their second marriage – I’ve been looking into his first marriage, which appears to have been:

Samuel Ferguson (of Ballybracken) married Elizabeth McMeekin on 27th Jan 1845 at Donegore First Presbyterian. Their children were baptised at the same church:

Thomas McMeekin Ferguson – born 19th Nov 1839 – baptised 30th Mar 1840
John Ferguson – born 21st Nov 1845 – baptised 19th Dec 1845
William Robert Ferguson – born 15th Jun 1850 – baptised 17th Jun 1850

All of the above show parents Samuel Ferguson and Elizabeth McMeekin. Thomas and Robert were both born at Ballybracken – it doesn’t say for John.

The slight problem with this version of events is that Samuel and Elizabeth appear to have married 5 years after the birth of their first child. Or have I got the wrong marriage…? Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: kirk6704 on Thursday 06 July 17 01:09 BST (UK)

I was thrilled when I came upon this post quite by chance. Jane Buchanan is my great-great-great -grandmother. Her husband was James Buchanan from Ballymena. He accompanied his youngest son, also James, to Canada in the mid 1840s intending to help settle his son and return to Ireland. Sadly he died while in Canada and was buried in a pioneer cemetery in what is now Ottawa. The cemetery is now gone and all the remains were haphazardly transferred to another cemetery. We have no record of his final resting place. His son James, my great-great-grandfather, married a Elizabeth Freeman from County Wicklow, prospered as a farmer and had a family of eight. I'm the great- grandson of his oldest son. Where is Donegore? I would love to one day see the grave and hopefully find out a little about my ancestors in Antrim!

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 09 July 17 09:22 BST (UK)

Hi Kirk,

Interesting to hear from you. I didn’t know Jane’s husband was called James but I looked up her death notice and it does refer to her late husband, “James Buchanan of Belfast”. (I wonder if he was of Belfast before he went to America, or did he return from there before his death?)

Donegore is in between Antrim and Ballyclare in County Antrim. I’m not sure how to do one of those drop-positions links to a map but below is a link to the wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donegore

May I ask how you know that this Jane Buchanan is your ggg grandmother (e.g. do you have a family bible or something that refers to her maiden name or death date?).

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: kirk6704 on Sunday 09 July 17 13:30 BST (UK)

Hi Gilby,

Thanks for the reply! I have known since I was a child that my great-great-great-grandmother's maiden name was "Ballagh" or "Ballah". I grew up and still live not far from where her son James settled. Of the eight children in James' family, two of them had "Ballagh" as a second name. James' eldest brother was Robert Ballagh Buchanan was a merchant who died in 1900 in Pine Villa Ballycloughan, Down, Ireland. I have found several wills through PRONI. Incidentally, there is a Wilson/Bryson connection on this side of the Atlantic too. James my great-great-grandfather settled here because he had a Wilson cousin already here.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 09 July 17 15:14 BST (UK)

Hi Kirk,

Attached (hopefully) is a photo of the Ballah headstone in Donegore which mentions your ggg grandmother. There are other Ballah/Buchanan/etc headstone in the same plot which I have photos of too (better quality than this one which is reduced). In a post or two you'll be able to send private messages and then I can email the other photos if you want.

The headstones are down the slope to the left as you go into the graveyard by the way. Hopefully you will get to visit - Donegore is a nice wee place.

Do you happen to know what the exact connection was to the Wilson cousin already in America?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: kirk6704 on Monday 10 July 17 01:36 BST (UK)

Hi Gilby,

My heart skipped a beat or two when I saw the picture of the headstone! Many thanks! I've come to know a little about the Ballaghs through wills available online. The stone is also inscribed with Janes' parents and grandparents all of whom I've discovered through other means. Agnes Wilson the daughter of Anne Ballagh and James Wilson married Captain Peter Davidson and emigrated to Canada West sometime prior to my gg grandfather James. They were 1st cousins. I have a transcription of recollections of a long dead relative that also mentions that there were cousins named Bryson already here as well. I would really like to find out more about my ggg grandfather James Buchanan and his family. As I mentioned in an earlier post, he died while he was here getting his son settled and had no will back in Ireland.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 16 July 17 10:43 BST (UK)

Hi Kirk,

I’m interested that you already know about Jane’s parents and grandparents through other sources – what are these and what other information have you been able to uncover?

Yes, Nancy Davi(d)son is mentioned in the will of Elizabeth Ballah (the one who erected the headstone). Do you know if they married in America or Ireland?

The Bryson cousin in America was quite likely one of the children of John Bryson (of Ballybracken) and Margaret Ballah.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: kirk6704 on Thursday 20 July 17 22:53 BST (UK)

Hi Gilby,

The name "Ballagh" and specifically "Jane Ballagh" is something known within my family and passed down through the generations. I learned of her parents, grandparents and siblings by way of various records found through on line genealogical research sites and PRONI. The wills have been very helpful. I only wish that information on James Buchanan and his family was as readily available. My search will continue!

I'm not sure where Agnes Wilson would have married Captain Peter Davidson, but I would be inclined to believe it was in Ireland. I highly doubt any young unmarried woman would make her way to this part of the world in the early 1840s alone or in the company of any man to whom she wasn't married. I do know that the land that the Davidsons settled was not far from the Buchanans.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: RebaBryson on Friday 30 March 18 18:22 BST (UK)

I noticed in this thread that the Buchanan was from Ballymenagh and the Bryson from Donegore, I am having a bit of trouble tracing the parents of my Brysons.
I have found that Adam Bryson was born 1797 Parade Rd Ballymenagh.. which is cool, it is a start. His brothers I am aware of are William, James and Robert and a sister Ann. The brothers, it is said went to Nova Scotia about 1825
Ann traveled in 1831 or 36 with Edward Owen Hogan.
One of you mentioned that there were already Bryson cousins on this side of the drink so I wonder if these could be them?
Also
If any of you are aware of a family member who is a male Bryson descendant, I invite you to have them join the ongoing Bryson Surname DNA Project
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bryson/about (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bryson/about)

here is one of the charts
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bryson/default.aspx?section=yresults (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bryson/default.aspx?section=yresults)

I am looking forward to hearing back from you.

Thank you!

Rebecca Bryson

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: kirk6704 on Tuesday 03 April 18 18:23 BST (UK)

Hi Rebecca,

My great great grandfather James Buchanan was born in Ballymena and came to a property his family had purchased near what is now Ottawa, Canada in 1847. I have a written account by one of his daughters that says that he had "Bryson cousins" in the area. His mother was Jane Ballagh and her sister Margaret was married to John Bryson of Ballybracken, Antrim. They had daughters Sarah and Agnes and sons James, Robert and John. I don't know if any of these five cousins settled in the area.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Saturday 11 August 18 12:32 BST (UK)

From the Registry of Deeds:

Book 674 / Page 8 / Number 463243
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-3Q5P-F?i=9&cat=185720
Memorial of indenture of assignment dated 1st Apr 1812 between James Ballah of Ballybracken, farmer, and William Wilson of Ballybracken, farmer. For £999 19s 11d Ballah sells to Wilson 79a 1r 26r plantation measure in the Quarterland of Ballybracken. To have and to hold for the remainder of 61 years from 1st Nov 1800. Witnesses Robert Ballah of Ballyvoy, John Bryson of Bally[wee?], farmers and John Williamson of Freemanstown Gent, attorney.

This obviously can't be James Ballah senior (who died 1791). It could be his grandson (born 1791). However, I suspect it may be a previously unknown brother of Robert Ballah of Ballyvoy (1753-1821).

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Sheepstealer on Saturday 04 December 21 17:15 GMT (UK)

Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.

The James Bryson of cove lodge b1825 was my direct GG grandfather , my uncle William still lives their . I am trying to find more about RbT Bryson my GGG grandfather

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Saturday 11 December 21 14:48 GMT (UK)

Hi Sheepstealer, welcome to Rootschat.

I have that couple on my tree because I’m interested in a few families in the area, including the Brysons. Please tell us more about what you know already about this family. What is the connection between James Bryson (b. 1825) and James Bryson, father of Margaret?

I have a James Bryson born c1826 who married Agnes Bryson, and a James Bryson born c1827 who was son of Robert Bryson (surgeon) and Eleanor Gawn.

Gilby

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Saturday 19 February 22 18:50 GMT (UK)

Gilby,

In this thread you were asking about a will for John W. Bryson named in the first post. John W. is my 4th great grandfather, direct line. I have a copy of his will if you still need it. The original poster is a cousin. We’ve been trying to locate John W Bryson’s parentage and/or siblings. I think one sibling was Robert and one may have been Charles but that’s literally guessing as church records have been lost. I’ve pieced some together through wills.

Sheepstealer is a new cousin of sorts as somewhere all Northern Ireland Brysons are related. We’ve been in contact since late last year. The b1825 James you gave him is on my tree. The 1827 James isn’t. We will be in Kilbride, Ballywee, Ballyclare in June and plan to meet up with SS. Hoping the Old Kilbride Cemetery will yield up some secrets. From John W forward my direct line is solid.

I think you also mentioned a Bryson family with two daughters, one named Agnes, daughter of John Bryson. Agnes married William Bryson. They lived in or on Ballyvoy. I have wills for Agnes and William. It doesn’t appear any of their children married and the last Ballyvoy resident in that line, Jenny Bryson, willed her estate to a Margaret Barrett and William Bryson. Confused yet? Too many same names.

Anyhow, any information you might have would be great and any questions you might have, ask away.

Thanks for the info you provided in the thread!

Deb

Anyhow, I hope you get this and it’s helpful. If you

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Sunday 20 February 22 02:48 GMT (UK)

Gilby,

You also asked about John W. Bryson’s son James who did not immigrate. The James Brison marriages you have for Ann 1829 and Martha Ann McConnell are his marriages. It’s probable Ann passed in childbirth.

James and Martha Ann had one son Robert in 1835. Robert had two sons James b1861-d1893 and William b1869-d1938. They also had four daughters, three married and one did not.

James never married. William married and had four daughters. It appears all four daughters passed at an early age. I’ll check to see if I have a will for William. James left his estate to William.

So the Bryson name from John W. Bryson through James (his son) ended in 1938 with William’s death. My line from John W through his son William by his second wife Mary McCune is still around through my brother and his two sons. I’m a Bryson by birth though. :)

Deb

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Lbryson on Monday 16 October 23 18:31 BST (UK)

Quote from: Gilby on Saturday 11 December 21 14:48 GMT (UK)

I have that couple on my tree because I’m interested in a few families in the area, including the Brysons. Please tell us more about what you know already about this family. What is the connection between James Bryson (b. 1825) and James Bryson, father of Margaret?

I have a James Bryson born c1826 who married Agnes Bryson, and a James Bryson born c1827 who was son of Robert Bryson (surgeon) and Eleanor Gawn.

Gilby

Hey Rev Alex Bryson is my 3rd ggrandfather. So I have lots of Ballaghs, Mckmeekins and Brysons in my family

In letters I have found in PRONI I know he has three brothers Charles, John and Robert and an unfortunately unnamed sister all brought up in Ballybracken.
In the letter it says Robert was a medical doctor and on his way to or from Scotland collecting his degree he drowned leaving a wife and two young boys all unnamed in this letter. I’ve really wanted to find out who they are and your Robert seems like it would fit. Would you be able to share where you get the info?

Thanks so much, Lorna

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 08 November 23 21:39 GMT (UK)

Hi. Sorry I’m just noticing these messages. Lorna, the following is the note I had on my tree for Robert Bryson:

Robert Bryson, surgeon of Poyntzpass. Was probably related to the Rev. Alexander Bryson of Fourtowns near Poyntzpass. They both clearly had links to the Donegore area. I think that's probably where they originated.

Your message basically confirms all of that. More details below.

Belfast Newsletter, 22nd Sep 1818:
In Poyntzpass, on the 17th ult. by the Rev. Mr. Bryson, Surgeon Bryson, of Poyntzpass, to Susannah, eldest daughter of Mr. George Bennet of said place.

Belfast Newsletter, 17th Feb 1824:
On the 27th ult. at Donegore, by the Rev. Mr. Wallace, Mr. Robert Bryson, surgeon, of Pointzpass, to Eleanor, eldest daughter of the late Mr. James Gawn, of Donegore.

They had a son called James who died in 1850, as remembered on a headstone erected by his grandfather James Gawn in Kilbride graveyard:
http://www.gawnfamilystory.co.uk/UnnamedGawn1737.htm

Plenty about the Gawns on that site. Robert Bryson must have died before 1838 because his widow married Green Hall O’Neill that year.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 08 November 23 22:33 GMT (UK)

Threekids,

Yes, I’d still be interested in seeing a copy of John Bryson’s (1836?) will. Or any other wills from this family which don’t survive in the PRONI catalogue.

I hope you got to Kilbride graveyard and that it lived up to your expectations. I visited on a frosty morning about 8 weeks before your last message.

Thanks for the information on James Bryson and his line. I don’t remember all those names, but it is too late tonight for me to look them up, so I’ll need to come back to this another time!

Gilby

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Wednesday 08 November 23 22:39 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Gilby on Wednesday 08 November 23 22:33 GMT (UK)

Threekids,

Yes, I’d still be interested in seeing a copy of John Bryson’s (1836?) will. Or any other wills from this family which don’t survive in the PRONI catalogue.

I hope you got to Kilbride graveyard and that it lived up to your expectations. I visited on a frosty morning about 8 weeks before your last message.

Thanks for the information on James Bryson and his line. I don’t remember all those names, but it is too late tonight for me to look them up, so I’ll need to come back to this another time!

Gilby

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Wednesday 08 November 23 23:02 GMT (UK)

Hi Gilby,

I have a copy of John W Bryson’s will written in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania where he and his family immigrated to. I’m happy to share it with you. There aren’t any wills in PRONI from that branch. It created a mystery for us as there is a bequest to a grandson James Milford in 1836 and then by one of John W’s sons a bequest to “my nephew” the same James Milford in 1884. Evidently we have a missing daughter of John W. who married John Milford and probably passed away. James Milford married Joyce Bryson and they are also buried at Kilbride.

James Bryson was an interesting mystery. We only knew about him because of John W’s 1836 Will where he leaves a bequest to the children of my son James deceased. After James died his widow, Martha Ann McConnell, married a different James Bryson, son of Alexander Bryson and Mary Corry. Second James and Martha Ann are buried at Kilbride as is First James’s son Robert with Martha Ann and Robert’s family. The other son from First James and Martha Ann (James) died in Australia but is memorialized on the gravestone.

Yes, we went to Kilbride Cemetery and plan to go back next year. I have cousins from John W Bryson’s brother who live on one of the ancestral properties. The cemetery was lovely and certainly full of Brysons! We brought some of my Dad’s ashes with us and scattered them by the gravestone of my 3rd great aunt Jane Ferguson and dedicated a lovely bench in memory of my Dad and the Bryson ancestors.

I know a lot more about where relatives are buried so I hope to make a record of the stones and who’s buried under them.

Please let me know how I can get John W Bryson’s will to you. It’s several pages.

Best wishes,

Deb Bryson Martin

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Wednesday 08 November 23 23:04 GMT (UK)

I also have wills from some of John W’s sons who immigrated with him.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 09 November 23 06:36 GMT (UK)

Hi Deb

I expect Gilby will contact you by personal message to give you his email address for you to send the Will. And if you don't mind, for him to then forward on to me also. The GawnFamily story site that Gilby sent you belongs to a distant Gawn relative of mine, Billy Gawn. When we first started exchanging info in the 1990s we knew there was a connection between his Gawn family and mine but did not know where it was, except perhaps c 1750 ish. Now if you go to the site you will find my Ancestor is the John Gawn b c1725 on the left and Billy's ancestor is the James Gawn born c1837 on the right. My gt grandmotehr was a Gawn and she married a Graham. Gilby is related to me through my Graham side.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 09 November 23 11:53 GMT (UK)

I’m more than happy for Gilby to share any information with you. My second cousin and I have wondered how Gawns might be related to Brysons. It’s been quite a journey with my John W Bryson branch before his 1830 immigration…not much information.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 09 November 23 21:32 GMT (UK)

Hi Deb,

I’ll send you a message with my email address. Thanks.

According to a Fasti of Presbyterian Ministers, the Rev. Alexander Bryson’s father was a John Bryson of Ballybracken. Does that fit with what you have found?

I know a descendant of James Milford and Joyce Bryson. I’ll ask her if she knows her ancestor was named as a grandson in the 1836 will.

Gilby

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 09 November 23 22:27 GMT (UK)

Yes, who you have for Alexander Bryson’s father is what I also have. I took a look at it today. Btw, two of Charles Bryson’s (Alexander’s brother) and his wife Margaret Bryson married Brysons. Their daughter Jainey married a David Bryson son of a Robert Bryson and their son John Alexander married a Margaret Bryson daughter of a William Bryson b1830. David Bryson and family are buried at Kilbride and John Alexander and Margaret are buried at Kilbride in the plot with his parents Charles and Margaret. I’ll have to look at the David branch and the William branch sometime.

I’m very grateful my ggf+ didn’t marry any of his children to Brysons…talk about confusing.

I got your email address and will send John W’s 1836 will to you soon.

Deb

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 12 November 23 14:17 GMT (UK)

Thanks again for the will. Yes, too many Bryson-Bryson connections by the sounds of it!

Who was the Jenny Bryson (dau of a Charles Bryson) who married William Bryson in 1896?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 12 November 23 14:42 GMT (UK)

Some deeds which may be relevant.

1778 – David Smith to James Bryson – Ballyvoy - ROD 328/44/216594
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-G9KC-6?cat=185720
Memorial of assignment dated 2nd Jul 1778 between David Smith of the parish of Kilbride, Co Antrim, farmer, and James Bryson of Bellyvoy, parish of Kilbride, farmer. David Smith in consideration of £60 sold Bryson part of Ballyvoy in the parish of Donegor or Kilbride containing 38a 1r 31p IPM, being same as was in the occupation of Margaret Smith widow. For 3 royal lives or 41 years. Witnessed by Bristow Miniss and Robert Young, both of the town of Antrim, merchants.

[This farm was in the south/middle of Douglasland.]

1787 – James Lather to James Bryson – Ballyvoy and Lisnalark – ROD 394/349/260564
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-BN8C?i=199&cat=185720
Memorial of release dated 4th Oct 1787 between James Laher the younger of Kilgavanagh, Co Antrim, farmer, and Jas Brison [James Bryson] of Holestone, farmer. For £130 16s 9p, Lather sold Bryson 14a in Ballyvoy, 8a 2r 12p in Lissnalark, and 8a 1r 7p in Lisnalark aforesaid, all Co Antrim. For 3 royal lives and remainder of a term of years. Witnessed by John Williamson and Hugh Williamson, attorney.

[The two Lisnalark properties formed the eastern tip of Moss-side.]

1803 – Williamsons to Bryson – Lisnalack - ROD 560/60/373156
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-D9SS?cat=185720
Memorial of sale dated 1st Nov 1803 between John Williamson and Hugh Williamson both of Freemanstown, Co Antrim, only sons of Hugh Williamson late of Freemanstown, Co Antrim, attorney, deceased, 1st; and John Bryson of Lissnalack, farmer. Williamsons sold Bryson part of Ballywee in Donegore containing 29a 2r 35p IPM. For 41 years from 1st Nov 1794 as held by said John and Hugh Williamson. Witnessed by Mary Williamson of Freemanstown, Co Antrim, widow, and James Bryson of Holestone, and John Wilson of Ballybracken. Memorial witnessed by said James Bryson and John Wilson.

[Middle property on the east of Ballywee in Donegore parish.]

1812 - James Ballah to William Wilson - Ballybracken - Book 674 / Page 8 / Number 463243
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-3Q5P-F?i=9&cat=185720
Memorial of indenture of assignment dated 1st Apr 1812 between James Ballah of Ballybracken, farmer, and William Wilson of Ballybracken, farmer. For £999 19s 11d Ballah sells to Wilson 79a 1r 26r plantation measure in the Quarterland of Ballybracken. To have and to hold for the remainder of 61 years from 1st Nov 1800. Witnesses Robert Ballah of Ballyvoy, John Bryson of Bally[wee?], farmers and John Williamson of Freemanstown Gent, attorney.

[Possibly the farm on the north side of what became Crawfordsland.]

1818 - William Wilson to John Bryson - Ballybracken - ROD 735/307/501242
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ9-K9XX-Y?cat=185720
Memorial of assignment dated 17th Dec 1818 between Wm Wilson senr of Ballybracken, Co Antrim, farmer, and John Bryson of Ballybracken, farmer. Reciting that Marquis of Donegal by indenture 1st Jun 1805 demised to said Wm Wilson the farm of land In Ballybracken hereinafter mentioned containing 16a 5p IPM for 61 years. Wilson now agreed to sell same to John Bryson for £350. Same more or less as was demised by Arthur late Marquis of Donegal to John Wilson by indenture dated 14th Aug 1769 which said land was then in possession of William Wilson. Wm Wilson witnessed by Alexander Bryson of Ballybracken and William Crozier atty-at-law. John Bryson witnessed by said A. Bryson and Wm Crozier.

^ I’m not sure if this is John Bryson senior or his son John Bryson who died in 1872? Alexander Bryson the witness is probably not the minister because he would have been a Rev by 1818.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 12 November 23 14:44 GMT (UK)

Is James Bryson of Holestone a different person to James Bryson of Ballyvoy (who died in 1832)?

Lisnalark is an alternative name for Moss-side which is wedged in between Ballyvoy and Holestone. It is interesting that James Owens of Holestone had land in Ballyvoy and Lisnalark, and when John Bryson bought his lease of Ballywee in 1803, he was of Lisnalark.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 12 November 23 15:40 GMT (UK)

There definitely seems to have been a close connection between James Bryson of Ballyvoy and John Bryson of Ballywee. They possibly exchanged or shared land in Lisnalark? Witnesses to each other’s deeds.

1812 – Donegall to John Bryson – Ballywee – ROD 685/350/471305
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-QS3G-9?i=467&cat=185720
Memorial of lease dated 1st Jul 1812 between Marquis of Donegall and John Brysan [Bryson] of Ballywee, farmer. Donegall granted Bryson 29a 2r 35p in Ballywee, including water corn mills thereon, for 61 years. Witnessed by James Bryson of Ballycroy [Ballyvoy], farmer and by George Sloan of Beyratt [?] gent. Memorial witnessed by said James Bryson, and by Thomas Ferguson of Doagh, farmer. Sworn by James Bryson 31st Sep 1814. Registered 15th Feb 1815.

[This is a memorial of the lease in PRONI, D509/1811. It’s a renewal of the ROD 560/60/373156 lease.]

1812 – Donegall to James Bryson – Duncansland - ROD 685/351/471306:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-QS3L-V?i=468&cat=185720
Memorial of lease dated 1st Jun 1812 between Marquis of Donegall and James Brison [Bryson] of Ballyboy [Ballyvoy], Co Antrim, farmer. Donegall granted Brison the farm called Duncan's farm in Ballyvoy containing 80a 22p, as was then and now in possession of said James Brisan as assignee of Patrick Allen by virtue of a lease from Donegall to Patrick Allen dated 14th Aug 1769. Witnessed by John Brysan of Ballywee, farmer, and George Sloan of Byart [?] gent. Memorial witnessed by said John Bryson and by Thomas Ferguson of Doagh, farmer. Sworn by John Bryson 31st Sep 1814. Registered 15th Feb 1815.

[This is probably the western two thirds of Duncansland.]

I don’t know much about Thomas Ferguson of Doagh other than I think he died in 1832 and his eldest son was possibly James Ferguson of Ballybracken. His second son was called Thomas and married Sarah Fulton of Standingstone in 1833.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Sunday 12 November 23 15:46 GMT (UK)

I will look at my Bryson family groups. There were several John Brysons related to three different branches and the lease locations. The branch of James and Elizabeth Bryson (Joice and John were their children) I believe is the Ballyvoy\Ballybracken branch. When John or his son John passed away the property known as Covelodge which still exists on the farm known as Ballyvoy was purchased or leased by James Bryson Esq who is the 2nd ggf of the Bryson currently living on the property. There are three houses and a ruin on the property. One of the houses is the original stone cottage. Thanks for sending these…they definitely are a placement help!

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Sunday 12 November 23 15:54 GMT (UK)

I’ll look at the Jenny Bryson.

I believe that d. 1832 James Bryson was the uncle of my John Bryson and the brother of a John Bryson who may have been my 6th ggf. The 6th is eluding us.

I believe Holstone James Bryson and d1832 James Bryson were two different folks. Part of the problem is that the locations weren’t always perfect. Cue the Ballyvoy/Ballywee/Duncansland locations.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Sunday 12 November 23 16:37 GMT (UK)

The Smith to James Bryson deed is, I believe the d. 1787 James Bryson (buried at Kilbride) who I think maybe d.1832 James’s and my 6th ggf’s father. The d. 1832 James expanded leases and as such land after 1787 hence the 1787 expansion deed.

The 1812 deed is my John’s property lease which was sold on to the Bairds when he immigrated.

I think the d. 1832 James Bryson was quite wealthy. The farm located there now is quite large. I do have the will or one of them from that James’s son or grandson. It’s one of those wills that list family members and their locations. Otherwise there’s not much available.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Monday 13 November 23 01:21 GMT (UK)

Jenny or Jainey Bryson was the daughter of Charles Bryson and Margaret Bryson. Charles Bryson Esq was the younger brother of Rev Alexander Bryson. Margaret Bryson was the youngest daughter of James Bryson Esq who I believe was my John Bryson’s brother. Alexander married Charles and Margaret in 1835. There’s a marriage notice in the Belfast Newsletter. Charles does have a will on PRONI. I’ll see if I copied it. Jenny/Jainey married William Bryson, not sure how the family links. Charles’s and Margaret’s son John also married a Margaret Bryson (not sure of that relationship…looking into it. All these couples are buried at Kilbride Cemetery. There are quite a few Bryson/Bryson marriages…I’ve no doubt cousins.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Monday 13 November 23 05:17 GMT (UK)

I have been catching up on the Gawn-Bryson families and just want to restate that Robert Bryson, surgeon and Eleanor Gawn had only two sons that I know about:

John Alexander Bryson born 18 Mar 1825 and emigrated to Canada, whether before or after marriage to Mary Gamble, I do not know but here are 9 unviewed hints that might tell me. The oldest son that I have is Charles born Richmond, Ontario on 6 Jun 1845. I have a total of 9 children noted including Eleanor Gawn Bryson born 1854.

The other son James Bryson, born 1827 died 19 Mar 1850 and is buried at I think Kilbride, along with his grandfather James Gawn.

I have yet to check the other Gawn-Bryson marriage but have a feeling that the father of Agnes Gawn who married Francis Ferguson may not be recorded but I haven't looked for her for some time.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Monday 13 November 23 05:43 GMT (UK)

So going to the site http://www.gawnfamilystory.co.uk/JohnGawnF1768.htm

Agnes born c1795 is listed as daughter of John who lived Ballyvoy. John Gawn born c1768 was the son of James Gawn of Donegore born c1737

Agnes Gawn and Francis Ferguson married 10 May 1821 at Donegore Presbyt.Church.

Agnes had a brother John Gawn whose will can be seen on the Gawn website. Or at least it is, if the date 1907 is incorrect. John Gawn refers to his sister Agnes and her son John Ferguson but talks about him as in his minority and any siblings yet to be born. So that is a little confusing. But the site also says that John Gawn of Ballyvoy died a bachelor in c 1822 or 1823 which is a better match to when Agnes' son John Ferguson was in his minority.

John also appoints his uncle John Bryson as an executor, which implies that Agnes and John were the the children of John Gawn born c1768 and a Bryson wife.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Monday 13 November 23 12:10 GMT (UK)

I will look in all the Bryson branches to see if I have any of the Gawn/Bryson marriages. Everytime I think I couldn’t possibly find another branch one pops up. We have a lost Bryson daughter too, we think. Our John W. Bryson, my 4th ggf names a bequest to “my grandson James Milford” in the 1835/36 will. John’s son Charles Bryson had a bequest to “my nephew James Milford of County Antrim, Ireland” in his 1884 will. The James Milford we think is the grandson married Joyce Bryson, daughter of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick. Robert is a nephew of my John Bryson. John Milford is James Milford’s father according to marriage records. James Milford and family are buried near the Brysons at Kilbride Cemetery. A Milford descendant is looking into it when she has the time.

I’ll ask my cousin Ruth Smith who started this thread way back if she has the Fergusons you’ve listed. She has an extensive search of Fergusons.

Part of the big problem is that the records of 2 Donegore Presbyterian are largely lost so piecing together links is always interesting.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Tuesday 14 November 23 22:27 GMT (UK)

Just in case people aren’t aware, because it isn’t all that obvious with a Google search, but the Kilbride graveyard has been surveyed, with results here (go to Cemeteries, search for Kilbride under “UK – Northern Ireland”):
https://discovereverafter.com/

Having said that, if there is a headstone of a James Bryson who died in 1787, I can’t make it out in the photos. Deb, do you have a transcript?

Yes, James Bryson’s (d. 1832) purchase of Duncan’s Farm would have made him one of the largest farmers in the area. Who is the son or grandson you have a will for? I haven’t looked at the Brysons on the PRONI catalogue recently so you may be talking about one there.

The James Bryson of Covelodge was the father of Margaret Bryson who married Charles Bryson of Ballybracken in 1835. Was that James Bryson also the father of James Bryson who married Agnes Bird née Bryson in 1855?

Yes, RE the place names in this area. Even Holestone only really emerged as a townland in the mid-1700s I think. It used to include part of Moyadam and was called Grange. In the 1600s it was apparently called Brice’s Land.

On the Fergusons, I don’t think anyone has yet figured out who the parents were of Francis Ferguson (c1791-1866) who married Agnes Gawn. One of his descendants did a Y-DNA test, and his daughter posted earlier on this thread – so hopefully we’ll figure it out eventually.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Wednesday 15 November 23 00:56 GMT (UK)

The website you listed pretty much parallels Find-A-Grave for Kilbride Cemetery. There are a few markers I didn’t have. It’s a great resource. Plot 164 where James Bryson d. 1832 is buried has many of the family members of the current residents of the Ballyvoy farm. I have a list of who’s buried in known plots. Etta Mann actually compiled the list and I’ve no doubt would share it. Mine is pretty marked up.

The son James I have for Covelodge James Bryson is James Bryson b. 1820 d. 1835. That James is buried at Kilbride in Plot 64.

The James Bryson I think you’re asking about for was the grandson of Covelodge James and the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick. I have his marriage in 1855 to Agnes Boyd, a widow though. I got that name from the current owner of Ballyvoy. They are their great and great great grandparents. It wouldn’t surprise me if Agnes was a Bryson. That branch had a lot of Bryson/Bryson marriages. Do you have a marriage record?

I do have a James Bryson who died in Australia in 1861 (memorial on stone) who may or may not have married an Agnes Bird in 1855.

I did know that area was known as the Grange at one time. I didn’t know it was Brice’s Land. That makes sense as Brice is one of the Scottish derivatives of Bryson. There is a branch of Brysons who immigrated to America in the 1700s from County Antrim. I’m sure there’s some relationship there but no DNA.

I emailed you a copy of John Bryson’s d 1859 will.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 15 November 23 22:05 GMT (UK)

This was the marriage I was thinking of:

Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.

If Cove Lodge was on the Ballyvoy farm, then that's Duncansland I think? So I was wondering if James Bryson (1826-1909) of Duncansland may have been a son of James Bryson of Cove Lodge.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 15 November 23 22:19 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Wednesday 15 November 23 00:56 GMT (UK)

I did know that area was known as the Grange at one time. I didn’t know it was Brice’s Land. That makes sense as Brice is one of the Scottish derivatives of Bryson. There is a branch of Brysons who immigrated to America in the 1700s from County Antrim. I’m sure there’s some relationship there but no DNA.

It hadn't actually occurred to me that Brice might be Bryson. I'm not sure if that is the derivation in this case, but it is possible.

In the mid-17th century the townland was owned by one Brice Crawford. I guess he may have inherited it from a Brice maternal grandfather, but I have no evidence for that. I think he may have been ancestor of the Crawfords of Ballysavage.

I've gleaned most of that information from a 1728 deed where the 600 acres of Grange were sold to William Gilliland (my 8x great grandfather). The seller was John Crawford of Holestone which presumably was the name of his house/farm, but not yet the name of the townland.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Wednesday 15 November 23 22:47 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Gilby on Wednesday 15 November 23 22:05 GMT (UK)

This was the marriage I was thinking of:

Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.

If Cove Lodge was on the Ballyvoy farm, then that's Duncansland I think? So I was wondering if James Bryson (1826-1909) of Duncansland may have been a son of James Bryson of Cove Lodge.

No, James Bryson (1826-1909) was the grandson of James Bryson of Covelodge. 1826 James Bryson was the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick. He is also the direct line great+ grandfather of the current owner. He’s buried in Plot 164 with most of his descendants who’ve passed.

The marriage record you’re referencing is Covelodge James Bryson’s daughter Margaret married Charles Bryson in 1835.

Cove Lodge still exists and the brother of the current owner of Ballyvoy farm lives in the home.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Lbryson on Thursday 16 November 23 16:10 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Gilby on Wednesday 08 November 23 21:39 GMT (UK)

Hi. Sorry I’m just noticing these messages. Lorna, the following is the note I had on my tree for Robert Bryson:

Robert Bryson, surgeon of Poyntzpass. Was probably related to the Rev. Alexander Bryson of Fourtowns near Poyntzpass. They both clearly had links to the Donegore area. I think that's probably where they originated.

Your message basically confirms all of that. More details below.

Belfast Newsletter, 22nd Sep 1818:
In Poyntzpass, on the 17th ult. by the Rev. Mr. Bryson, Surgeon Bryson, of Poyntzpass, to Susannah, eldest daughter of Mr. George Bennet of said place.

Belfast Newsletter, 17th Feb 1824:
On the 27th ult. at Donegore, by the Rev. Mr. Wallace, Mr. Robert Bryson, surgeon, of Pointzpass, to Eleanor, eldest daughter of the late Mr. James Gawn, of Donegore.

Hi Gilby, this is brilliant I hadn’t come across these announcements. The Rev Alex Bryson marries Mary Jane Bennet the next year. I knew George Bennet had a third daughter I just couldn’t find her name anywhere.

Alex and Robert were both from Ballybracken their father John Bryson had at least 4 named sons and a unnamed daughter

Thanks for that info, Lorna

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Lbryson on Thursday 16 November 23 16:41 GMT (UK)

Hi Lorna,

I have quite a bit of information on the branch of Brysons you’re related to. Rev. Alex Bryson’s brother Charles married Margaret Bryson, youngest daughter of James Bryson in 1835. She was 15. James Bryson was my 4th ggf’s John W. Bryson’s brother. There is a marriage announcement in the Belfast Newsletter. They were married by Alex Bryson. Charles, Margaret and family are buried at Kilbride Cemetery. I also received a Bryson packet from a researcher from PRONI. It’s an ancestry from someone from that branch who resided in Canada. I’m happy to share the pages with you.

Best wishes,

Deb Bryson Martin
[/quote]

Hey Deb,
Wow 15 even then feels young!

Any new info would be great. I found a letter when visiting proni from a relative in Saskatchewan, it says about four Bryson brothers coming over from Scotland to Ballybracken in the reign of James 1 is that the info your taking about?

Reading your and Gilbys recent posts I’m ngl it’s all a little confusing for me 😂 I suppose if those 4 brothers all had family’s a few generations later the whole area around is going fill up with Brysons. I did my dads ydna a few years ago but everyone connected we must have had a shared gf in Scotland so hasn’t cleared up the line or where in Scotland my Bryson line originated. Their family lines interestingly also came over to ulster before most of them moved to North America.

Thanks, Lorna

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 27 December 23 18:38 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Wednesday 15 November 23 22:47 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Gilby on Wednesday 15 November 23 22:05 GMT (UK)
This was the marriage I was thinking of:

Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.

If Cove Lodge was on the Ballyvoy farm, then that's Duncansland I think? So I was wondering if James Bryson (1826-1909) of Duncansland may have been a son of James Bryson of Cove Lodge.

No, James Bryson (1826-1909) was the grandson of James Bryson of Covelodge. 1826 James Bryson was the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick. He is also the direct line great+ grandfather of the current owner. He’s buried in Plot 164 with most of his descendants who’ve passed.

The marriage record you’re referencing is Covelodge James Bryson’s daughter Margaret married Charles Bryson in 1835.

Cove Lodge still exists and the brother of the current owner of Ballyvoy farm lives in the home.

Sorry, got sidetracked again!

According to his marriage record, James Bryson (1826-1909) was son of a James Bryson, not Robert. Do you mean his wife Agnes Bryson was the daughter of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick?

My thinking was the line might run something like this:

James Bryson (c1746-1832) of Ballyvoy
---- James Bryson (??-??) of Covelodge
-------- James Bryson (c1826-1909) of Duncansland

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Wednesday 27 December 23 22:03 GMT (UK)

Hi Lorna, I’m missing Rev. Alexander Bryson’s marriage – was it in 1819? Was there a newspaper notice?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 28 December 23 18:25 GMT (UK)

James Bryson d. 1909 was the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick and the grandson of James Bryson from Covelodge. The James Bryson d. 1832 had two children John d.1841 and Joice d. 1862. John had several children including John d. 1859 whose will I sent you.

James Bryson d. 1909 lived on the Ballyvoy property as he took the lease over from John d. 1841 after he died. James's descendents are the current owners and inherited the property which includes Covelodge, a home that was one and a half stories but now two stories, the original stone cottage and a stone cottage that only the foundation exists now.

That's the info I have from the current residents of the property. I haven't found any other records for children of James Bryson d. 1832 other than the will which lists Joice. :)

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 28 December 23 22:56 GMT (UK)

I am getting lost in Brysons so have been working through some of the relationships.

I have looked up the 12 Dec 1855 marriage of James Bryson of Ballyvoy , who was the son of another James Bryson, to Annie Boyd, widow of Ballybracken who was the daughter of Robert Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 28 December 23 23:07 GMT (UK)

Correction the 1855 marriage was 28 December 1855.
And his spouse was Agnes Boyd.

I am not sure how to post the Irishgenealogy link except by copying the site and it seems awfully long and doesn't seem to work.

So will just try the irishgenealogy site instead. Still does not look as if it will work though

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 28 December 23 23:28 GMT (UK)

Copy and post the page with the image, that isn’t be too long
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09484/5437271.pdf

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 28 December 23 23:31 GMT (UK)

Are you on Ancestry? I have the Bryson branches pretty well documented. Yes, Agnes Bryson Boyd was a daughter of a Robert Bryson but not the Robert Bryson/Margaret Warwick pairing. They were James d1909's parents. That branch had so many Bryson/Bryson marriages it's hard to keep track.

I'll look again later and let you know about Agnes Boyd. If you're on Ancestry I'm happy to give you access to my tree.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 28 December 23 23:35 GMT (UK)

I'll look at the documents I have. I haven't looked at that branch for a while. I got most of the information from the current Ballyvoy residents and Etta.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 28 December 23 23:41 GMT (UK)

OK so it looks like the irishgenealogy link worked. I used a time period of marriages up to 1860 for my search for James Bryson marriages. This happens to also brung up Brysons femails whose husband is named James . So as my link to Brysons is through Gawns(see link to Will on page 2 by AnnFerguson), my eye was caught by the marriage in 1849 of Joyce Bryson of Ballybracken, aged 21, daughter of Robert.

arty 1 Name   JAMES MILFORD
Party 2 Name   JOYCE BRYSON
Date of Event   31 August 1849
Group Registration ID   3189748
SR District/Reg Area   Antrim
Image

This is not the Joice Bryson, spinster who died 1862 who I have as the Aunt of John Gawn (from his will of 1822). I have this older Joice down as the daughter of a James Bryson of Ballyvoy who died 1 Aug 1832 and his wife Elizabeth who died 1831.

I do not have a name for the mother of John Gawn and his sister Agnes (who married Francis Ferguson)

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 28 December 23 23:59 GMT (UK)

Yes I am in Ancestry and I was away looking at my Donegore Gawn family tree (which I don't update much) to check what I have on the Joice Bryson who died 1862.

This tree has mostly the families of Billy Gawn who set up the site with the wills.
http://www.gawnfamilystory.co.uk/JohnGawnF1768.htm

It was only relatively recently that Billy found out where our two famlies connect . Hiso married the unknown Bryson. My Ancestor (5x gt grandfather) was John Gawn born c1825 older brother of James Gawn. So my relationship to these Brysons is very remote.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 29 December 23 00:04 GMT (UK)

OOps a large chunck of text got deleted from this last post while I was not looking.

The missing text said that Billy Gawn's ancestor was James Gawn born c 1737 and died 1793 younger brother of my 5th gt grandfather John. James Gawn whose son was the one in the link and the one who married the unknown Bryson, daughter (I am guessing) of James Bryson of Ballyvoy who died 1832.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 29 December 23 00:22 GMT (UK)

Thank you Sinaan for posting the link to the marriage image. Because the pdf link did not come up as blue when I put it in the post I was not sure it would work, whereas I had seen links to the irishgenealogy site that had worked in posts. Again it did not show up as blue until after it was posted.

But now I know the pdf will work also.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Friday 29 December 23 00:29 GMT (UK)

Yes, I have the marriage of James Milford and Joyce Bryson, daughter of Robert. We’re pretty sure James Milford was the grandson of my 4th ggf John W Bryson d. 1836. His father was John Milford and we’re fairly certain that John Milford married an unknown daughter of John W Bryson who probably died in childbirth or soon after James was born. John W. left a bequest to “my grandson James Milford of Ireland” in his 1836 will and John W’s son Charles left a bequest to “my nephew James Milford, County Antrim, Ireland” in 1884.

I don’t know much about the Gawns relationship with the Brysons. From what I have James Bryson d. 1832 only had one son, John and one daughter, Joice. His son John had five or six children including a John d. 1859 whose will is a treasure trove of that branches family members. I do think 1832 James was the brother of my 5th ggf. I keep asking the ancestral gods to give me a good hint….but alas…no answer.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 29 December 23 07:28 GMT (UK)

Quote from: lmgnz on Thursday 28 December 23 23:41 GMT (UK)

...my eye was caught by the marriage in 1849 of Joyce Bryson of Ballybracken, aged 21, daughter of Robert.

arty 1 Name   JAMES MILFORD
Party 2 Name   JOYCE BRYSON
Date of Event   31 August 1849
Group Registration ID   3189748
SR District/Reg Area   Antrim
Image

Here's the URL marriage link, for others reading-
Marriage at 2nd Ballyeaston Presbyterian Church
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09360/5389457.pdf

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 29 December 23 07:43 GMT (UK)

Quote

..2nd Ballyeaston Presbyterian Church

19 Trenchill Road on Google Streetview
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01svv/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4224782#map=17/54.77183/-6.00218

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 07 January 24 12:54 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Thursday 28 December 23 18:25 GMT (UK)

James Bryson d. 1909 was the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick and the grandson of James Bryson from Covelodge. The James Bryson d. 1832 had two children John d.1841 and Joice d. 1862. John had several children including John d. 1859 whose will I sent you.

James Bryson d. 1909 lived on the Ballyvoy property as he took the lease over from John d. 1841 after he died. James's descendents are the current owners and inherited the property which includes Covelodge, a home that was one and a half stories but now two stories, the original stone cottage and a stone cottage that only the foundation exists now.

That's the info I have from the current residents of the property. I haven't found any other records for children of James Bryson d. 1832 other than the will which lists Joice. :)

I’m not convinced ;) Here is James Bryson’s marriage to Agnes in which his father is given as James Bryson (not Robert):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09484/5437271.pdf

And I’ve just found the will of James Bryson (1850) in which he names a son James:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ8-MQ73?i=238&cat=232751

He also refers to his daughter Margaret, wife of Charles Bryson – so we know this James Bryson who died in 1850 is the same James Bryson who was of Cove Lodge in 1835.

James Bryson (d. 1909) was apparently buried in the same plot as James Bryson of Ballyvoy (d. 1832), but I suppose that isn’t proof he was a grandson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 07 January 24 13:08 GMT (UK)

James Bryson of Ballyvoy/Cove Lodge also had daughters Elizabeth Shaw Bryson* and Mary Jane Bryson. I don’t know what happened to Mary Jane, but Elizabeth Shaw married Robert Semple in 1850:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1850/09380/5397371.pdf

Hugh Semple was a witness to the above marriage as well as James Bryson’s (1850) will.

Robert Semple and Elizabeth Shaw Bryson had several children between 1851 and 1866 – baptisms can be found here:

http://www.doaghancestry.co.uk/search-family-names/kilbride-presbyterian-baptisms/

Robert and Elizabeth died a month apart aged 88 and 95, and their deaths are registered on the same page:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05446/4523652.pdf

*James Bryson (d. 1832) and James Bryson (d. 1850) both had wives called Elizabeth. Probably Shaw was the maiden name of one of them.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 07 January 24 13:47 GMT (UK)

PRONI T956/146

5th May 1853. Indenture between Robert Bryson of Ballyvoy, carpenter, 1st, and John Bryson of Ballyvoy, farmer, 2nd.

Whereas by lease dated 1st Jun 1812 between Marquis of Donegall 1st; James Bryson of Ballyvoy 2nd, Donegall granted Bryson the land called Duncansland containing 80a 22p (then in the occupation of said James Bryson as assignee of Patrick Allen by virtue of a lease thereof granted by Donegall to Patrick Allen dated 14th Aug 1769) to hold for 61 years from 1st May then past, at yearly rent of £22-5s.

And whereas the estate and interest of the said James Bryson the lessee in a portion of said lands comprising 6a 1r are become vested in said Robert Bryson.

And whereas the said John Bryson hath agreed with Robert for the absolute purchase of said portion of said demised lands and premises and every part thereof formerly called Morrow’s Land, from the head of the wetland down to the river, for the price of £100.

Robert Bryson acknowledges receipt of said £100 an grants John Bryson said 6a 1r in the townland of Ballyvoy, for the remainder of the 61 years from 1812, and subject to repayment of a proportionate part of aid rent.

Witnessed by Francis Ferguson and James Ramsey.

ROD Memorial 1853/12/225.

The identification of Robert Bryson as a carpenter is useful, because that is how he is described in the marriages of his daughters Margaret and Martha in 1865. Those names match the nieces mentioned in the will of John Bryson of Ballyvoy (1859).

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Sunday 07 January 24 14:55 GMT (UK)

I had the 1832 James figured out at one point but I would have to go through it all again. The 1909 James took over Covelodge from d. 1841 John. There is a transfer in Proni. From there I've forgotten how the James d 1909 came to be buried in the same plot. I think it was by inheritance or something as the James d1832 line had died off. I honestly don't remember. I'll pull the file out and take a look. I know I had it figured out and gave it to the Bryson family currently living there. They inherited the property but aren't sure who from.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 07 January 24 15:31 GMT (UK)

This looks like the widow of James Bryson (d. 1850) of Ballyvoy / Cove Lodge:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06378/4830366.pdf

Registered by her grandson William Bryson of Duncansland (the son of James Bryson) who was born in 1865. He also registered the deaths of his mother in 1898 and father in 1909.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Monday 08 January 24 00:26 GMT (UK)

The 1855 marriage of James Bryson to Agnes Bird does indeed have a James Bryson father. However, it's not the 1909 James Bryson. This James Bryson b. 1833-34 d. 1861 was the youngest son of my John W Bryson's eldest son James who is listed as deceased in John W's 1836 will. After James #1 died his widow, Martha Ann McConnell remarried another James Bryson, son of an Andrew Bryson. The James on the marriage records is either his biological father or the step father James (probably the step). After he married he emigrated to Australia (I think in 1857) and died there in 1861. His death is memorialized on the marker for his step father and mother at Kilbride Cemetery.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Monday 08 January 24 00:32 GMT (UK)

1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Monday 08 January 24 13:37 GMT (UK)

1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 08 January 24 13:44 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Monday 08 January 24 13:37 GMT (UK)

1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.

???

You've just repeated your previous post (00:32)

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Monday 08 January 24 19:46 GMT (UK)

Agnes Bird = Agnes Boyd

I originally read it as Bird too, but I went back to check it when I couldn’t find an earlier Bryson-Bird marriage. It’s a bit more obvious if you look at the Thompson-Boyd marriage at the top of the page.

I believe Agnes’s first marriage was to James Boyd of Drummaul on 4th Jan 1842 (Donegore 1st Presbyterian).

And then he’s probably the James Boyd who died in 1852…

Belfast Newsletter, 15th Mar 1852:
March 6, of fever, aged 51 years, Mr. James Boyd, Drumaul, Randalstown.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Monday 08 January 24 21:42 GMT (UK)

This is how I currently have the James Bryson of Holestone family (mainly from the headstone in Kilbride Graveyard):

James Bryson (c1803-1878) m. (1831) Martha Ann McConnell (c1811-1870):
-   James Bryson (c1834-1861), died in Australia
-   John Bryson (c1838-1864)
-   Sarah Bryson (c1838-1912) m. Andrew Murdoch
-   Thomas Bryson (c1841-1860)
-   Lizzie Bryson (c1848-1858)
-   Robert Bryson (c1851-1872)

You’re saying the James Bryson b. c1834 was son of a different James Bryson? What’s the evidence for that?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Monday 08 January 24 22:06 GMT (UK)

I was also just looking at another James Bryson family trying to work out if there’s a connection…

1829 - PRONI D509/2479
Lease of 24 acres 3r. 4 per. I.P.M. for three lives renewable forever (See D509/690) - Consideration: £150 - Rent: £7.7s.9d. p.a. plus fees of Most Hon. George Augustus, Marquess of Donegall to James Gawn, Donegore, Co.Antrim and James Bryson, Jr., Holestone, Co. Antrim (Trustees for Arthur and Samuel Armar) relating to Ballyclaverty, Co. Antrim.

He’s probably the same James Bryson who was father of:

- Robert Bryson (c1830-1897) m. (1860) Sarah Caldwell.
- Mary Bryson (c1838-1903) m. (1858) William Samuel Bell.

Both of them were of Ballyclaverty when they married, and both mentioned Andrew Gawn (of Halftown) in their wills.

Edit: Mind you, James Bryson and James Gawn were only acting as trustees in 1829, so perhaps that James Bryson of Holestone never moved to Ballyclaverty.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Tuesday 09 January 24 06:30 GMT (UK)

Robert Bryson of Ballyclaverty, son James of married at 1st Donegore in 1860 to Sarah Calwell of Holestone. James Bryson is in 3kids tree as the oldest son of John W Bryson, the one who stayed behind in Ireland and died prior to John W Bryson's will. (Which I find very difficult to read! so I will take 3kids word for it.)

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 12:56 GMT (UK)

Robert Bryson b. 1830 and James b. 1833-34 were both the sons of John W. Bryson's eldest son James b. Abt 1797 d. 1835 and Martha Ann McConnell. There is an 1830 marriage record at 1st Donegore which was probably the bride's church. There are also baptism records for Robert's children after he married Sarah Calwell/Caldwell (there are two different spellings at Kilbride). After John W's son James died (as mentioned in John's 1836 will along with a bequest to "the children of my son James, deceased") his widow, Martha Ann married a different James Bryson, son of Andrew Bryson (no idea who he is but John and his second wife Mary McCune named their first child Andrew Smyth. I have a tiny DNA link to the Smyths so I think it was Mary's mother's family name). They had several children of their own. The 1833-34 James married Agnes Bird/Boyd and emigrated to Australia. There is no record that Agnes went with him. He died in Australia in 1861 (per the tombstone of his step father and his mother at Kilbride). I have DNA links to Robert from two of his daughters...O'Hara here in the States and Foster in Northern Ireland. Robert and most of his family are buried at Kilbride Cemetery. James is memorialized on the aforementioned stone.

The will is difficult to read. There are two copies of it. One appears to have been written by John W Bryson and is easier to read.

Frankly, there are too many James, Roberts and Johns. The Charles and Williams are so much easier. My great grandfather tried to break the mold with Earl, Verner, Wilson, Norman but he was so loved my grandfather named my Dad after him and so the William was back. Luckily too my Bryson branch is a direct line unlike my McCunes and McCutcheons. My from Ballymena originally Boals are a direct line too.

All of the confusion of marriages etc.would be cleared up if the 2nd Donegore records would magically reappear. I have put in a request to the NIFHS to look through the records they have at the 2nd Donegore Burying Ground tombstones. Unfortunately many of the plots at Kilbride have burials but no marker, or no dates or the marker is in very bad shape. There is a marker next to my 3rd great aunt Jane Bryson Ferguson and her mother, Margaret Wilson that is moss covered. Hoping that might be a missing Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Tuesday 09 January 24 18:46 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 12:56 GMT (UK)

Robert Bryson b. 1830 and James b. 1833-34 were both the sons of John W. Bryson's eldest son James b. Abt 1797 d. 1835 and Martha Ann McConnell.

Is there any documentary evidence for a connection to John W. Bryson?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Tuesday 09 January 24 19:15 GMT (UK)

Here’s a transcript of the headstone in Kilbride Graveyard:

In memory of JAMES BRYSON, Holestone, who died 27th March 1878 aged 75 years. His wife MARTHA ANN who died 9th [Aug] 1870 aged 59 years. Also their children, LIZZIE died 28th March, 1858 aged 10 years. THOMAS died 27th Aug 1860 aged 19 years. JAMES died [in] Australia 23rd May 1861 aged 27 years. JOHN died 5th March 1864 aged 26 years. ROBERT died 13th May 1872 aged 21 years.

There’s nothing there to indicate that James Bryson (c1834-1861) was not the son of James Bryson (c1803-1878) of Holestone.

Here’s the marriage record from Donegore 1st Presbyterian:

July 5 1831. James Brison, Holestone, to Martha Anne McConnell Ballywee. Witnesses Jas Gawn Donegore & Thos McConnell Ballywee.

Unless there’s another marriage record of Martha Ann Bryson/McConnell to another James Bryson between 1831 and 1838, then I can see no reason to believe that James Bryson (c1803-1878) of Holestone is not the same James Bryson of Holestone who married her in 1831.

You mention that James Bryson travelled alone to Australia. It is not impossible that he left a wife behind. But his employer specifically described him as a “single man” during the inquest over his death. So I don’t see any reason to think that he is the James Bryson who married Agnes Boyd née Bryson in 1855.

I know I’m probably beginning to sound obstinate, but I don’t mean to be! I’m just trying to wrap my head around these connections. As you say, there are too many James Brysons – I’m up to 33 on my tree now!

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:14 GMT (UK)

Hi Gilby!

I have DNA matches with two of Robert's daughters who were baptized at 1st Donegore. His son James died without issue and left his estate to his brother William who had four daughters. Three are buried with Robert, William and their wives at Kilbride. Unfortunately the Bryson name in this branch died off in 1940 with William's death. I thought the whole branch in Ireland had died off until I matched DNA with the Fosters. The O'Haras live in Colorado USA.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:17 GMT (UK)

Sorry, hit post....

His daughters were Isabelle/Isabella and Agnes. Isabelle/Isabella married an O'Hara and emigrated to the Western U.S. and Agnes married a Foster.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:30 GMT (UK)

It's hard to wrap my head around this family too...except for my, thankfully, straight line it's a confusing bunch. Haha We do have our mysterious lost daughter who married a Milford and is listed as "my grandson, James Milford" and then as "my nephew James Milford of County Antrim, Ireland" in John W's son Charles's 1884 will.

James Bryson d. 1861 was 27 when he
died and his father James d. 1835 was still alive and married to Martha Ann.
John W was aware of his son's death in
1836 and left a bequest "to the children of my son James, deceased".

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:36 GMT (UK)

James Bryson d1861 is listed singularly on the ship manifest to Australia. I thought it was a different James until it popped up on the headstone.

Agnes Boyd was a Bryson? That branch is so confusing with all those Bryson/Bryson marriages. There certainly were other families. My John W went to Belfast for Margaret Wilson and to County Down for Mary McCune.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 10 January 24 03:48 GMT (UK)

Yes too many James and John Brysons. Perhaps the Gawns are alittle easier.

I have James Gawn born c 1766 and died 1816 . wife named Margaret. Daughter Eleanor married Robert Byson of Poyntpass brother of Rev Alex.. So this James Gawn was not alive in 1830 and I do not have a son named James Gawn for him.

This James Gawn's brother John b c 1868 who married the unnamed Bryson whose sister was Joice Bryson daughter of James & Elizabeth. John appears to have had only the one son, John whose will named Joice Bryson as an aunt.

Which then leaves the family of Andrew Gawn of Halftown, as the remaining brother Robert Gawn only had one son named William. Though Billy Gawn's website has a letter written 1805 of another potential brother who emigrated to the US.

So back to Andrew Gawn's large family. His son James was born 1811 which means he could have been the witness to the 1830 marriage.

Andrew Gawn's oldest daughter married Thomas McConnell of Ballywee in 1826

So that ties in.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 10 January 24 03:57 GMT (UK)

Oh one more McConnell to add to this group.

James Gawn born c 17676 who died 1816 had a daughter Mary born c 1803. Mary married in 1829 to James McConnell of ballywee. Below is copied from http://www.gawnfamilystory.co.uk/JamesGawn1766.htm

Mary Gawn born c. 1803.
(Belfast News Letter Friday 16th January 1829)
Second daughter of the late James Gawn of Donegore, married James McConnell of East Ballywee in 2nd Donegore Presbyterian Church on 12th January, 1829

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 10 January 24 06:11 GMT (UK)

Oops. I missed the James Gawn born c 1801 died 28 Dec 1835, son of James Gawn born c 1766.

So he is also a candidate for the witness at the 1830 marriage.

By the way John Bryson Smyth of Holestone married in 1865 to Elizabeth Mary McConnell of Ballywee, daughter of Agnes Gawn and Thomas McConnell.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: shanreagh on Thursday 11 January 24 00:54 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Sinann on Thursday 28 December 23 23:28 GMT (UK)

Copy and post the page with the image, that isn’t be too long
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09484/5437271.pdf

I usually shorten the link by scrolling down to the bottom of the/this page on Roots Chat, into the black as it were. There are links there written in white including a 'shrink link' facility. You pop the long link and get a new improved shorter link.....

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sxn/

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 11 January 24 06:16 GMT (UK)

Thank you. That is a good tip. found the black shrink link tool

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 11 January 24 11:12 GMT (UK)

Wow! The John Bryson Smyth has every tie into something in my branch. Bryson, Smyth (used as the middle name for John W Bryson's and Mary McCune's eldest son Andrew), Holstone, Ballywee and McConnell. How they link is a mystery. John Bryson Smyth must've been a Bryson daughter somewhere. I'll look later. Btw, my brother who is the male descendent to our branch with the surname Bryson is taking the Big Y DNA test on Family Tree.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 11 January 24 21:55 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:14 GMT (UK)

Hi Gilby!

I have DNA matches with two of Robert's daughters who were baptized at 1st Donegore. His son James died without issue and left his estate to his brother William who had four daughters. Three are buried with Robert, William and their wives at Kilbride. Unfortunately the Bryson name in this branch died off in 1940 with William's death. I thought the whole branch in Ireland had died off until I matched DNA with the Fosters. The O'Haras live in Colorado USA.

Hi! I wouldn’t necessarily place make Robert’s father James Bryson as a son of John W. Bryson based on a DNA match, though it certainly looks like a possibility. It is also possible James was a nephew of John W. Bryson. These families intermarried so much that any DNA matches are likely to be stronger than you might expect.

Is there anything to indicate that any of the children of the James Bryson who died before 1836 (son of John W. Bryson) lived into adulthood?

Are the Fosters and O’Hara’s you mentioned descended from William Bryson (1869-1838) or his siblings? Do you know what happened to Ellen Bryson (b. 1871) who had two illegitimate children in 1901?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 11 January 24 22:03 GMT (UK)

This family would potentially look like:

John W. Bryson (c1764-1836)
---- James Bryson (c1800-c1835)
-------- Robert Bryson (c1830-1897) m. Sarah Caldwell
-------- Mary Bryson (c1838-1903) m. William S. Bell

The obvious problem there being Mary apparently born a few years after the death of her father. Her age in the 1901 census was 64, and it was also given as 64 when she died in 1903, hence I’ve gone for born c1838. It is possible she was a bit older.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 11 January 24 22:09 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:30 GMT (UK)

James Bryson d. 1861 was 27 when he died and his father James d. 1835 was still alive and married to Martha Ann. John W was aware of his son's death in 1836 and left a bequest "to the children of my son James, deceased".

Quote from: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:36 GMT (UK)

James Bryson d1861 is listed singularly on the ship manifest to Australia. I thought it was a different James until it popped up on the headstone.

There’s no reason to attach James Bryson (c1834-1861) to John W. Bryson's family. The headstone shows that he was not a grandson of John W. Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 11 January 24 22:33 GMT (UK)

Quote from: threekids5 on Tuesday 09 January 24 20:36 GMT (UK)

Agnes Boyd was a Bryson? That branch is so confusing with all those Bryson/Bryson marriages. There certainly were other families. My John W went to Belfast for Margaret Wilson and to County Down for Mary McCune.

Yup. And from your earlier message…

Quote from: threekids5 on Monday 08 January 24 00:32 GMT (UK)

1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.

I think the line for the Ballyvoy/Duncansland property goes like:

James Bryson (c1746-1832) m. Elizabeth (c1745-1831)
---- James Bryson (c1785-1850) m. Elizabeth (c1798-1883)
-------- James Bryson (c1826-1909) m. Agnes Boyd née Bryson (c1823-1898)

The only problem is I don’t know where James Bryson of Cove Lodge (the middle one above) was buried. I’m assuming his son the 3rd James was grandson of the 1st James because he is buried in the same plot, and he owned the same land. Another possibility is that Agnes’s father Robert Bryson was a son of the 1st James, but he was of Ballybracken so I think belongs to another branch.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 11 January 24 22:47 GMT (UK)

The Fosters and O'Haras are descendents of Robert Bryson, son of James Bryson and Martha Ann McConnell. My Bryson branch didn't intermarry at all. There are no Bryson/Bryson marriages in my line or the lines that came from them for any of my 4th ggf John W Bryson's descendents I think it highly unlikely that I'm wrong about matching DNA to Robert. Those other branches except for John W's brother James have no DNA matches

William Bryson 1869-1938 was one of Robert's sons. Ellen is a daughter but I have her death as 1894. I have a birth record for her as 1871. I don't have any information about any illegitimate children for her.

Robert and Sarah Caldwell had:
James Bryson 1861-1893
Anna Bryson O'Hara 1864-1949 (emigrated with husband Hugh O'Hara)DNA match with her granddaughter as does my cousin
Martha Bryson Gordon b 1866 (both sons from her died on Flanders)
William Bryson listed above
Ellen Bryson listed above
Agnes Bryson Foster 1873-1912 DNA match with her grandson as does my cousin

James never married. There is a PRONI bequest to his brother William.
William had four daughters...Sadie, Lily, Minnie (Matilda) and Aggie. Aggie died at age 6. No death records for Sadie and Lily....surmise they died as infants. Minnie died in 1966. There is no marriage record for her and she's buried in the same plot as Robert and William so I assume she didn't marry.

Robert's daughters had children. As I said my DNA links with the granddaughter of Anna O'Hara as does my cousin and with a Foster of the Agnes line. The Fosters are still in NI.

As I also said there are no Bryson/Bryson marriages in my Bryson line from my 4th ggf to my generation. Those that emigrated didn't marry any Brysons. All the DNA matches I have are from descendents of John W Bryson and his sons and daughters.

I'm very confident about the John W Bryson line. Still looking for a lost daughter but the rest is pretty well documented. Robert is my link to James Bryson and Martha Ann McConnell through his daughters.

Sorry if I sound snippy but I've answered the same questions over and over. Maybe John W will come to me in a dream and give me some hints. ;D

John W had a nephew James b. 1820 d. 1835. He is buried at Kilbride Cemetery.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Thursday 11 January 24 22:53 GMT (UK)

I would contact Etta for that branch. I have it entered into Ancestry as she gave it to me.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 09:31 GMT (UK)

So the 1886 Martha Bryson to William Gordon marriage turns into this when put through the Rootschat shrinking pot. I guess I will have to post to see if I have correctly followed instruction. But am putting in the pdf link as well.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sxq/

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10840/5957285.pdf

Anyway their daughter Ellen was probably named after the Ellen Gordon who was the other witness with James Bryson.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 09:46 GMT (UK)

OK that worked so next death of Ellen Jane Bryson of Ballybracken in 1894. It says her father was Alexander Byrson and her sister Sarah J Bryson registered the death

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sxr/

So not a daughter of William Bryson.

Which Ellen Bryson record do you mean Gilby? Alive where in 1901?

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 12 January 24 10:01 GMT (UK)

You don't need to shrinklink the IrishGenealogy BMD pdf's.

Only the very long URL links that some Rootschatters still paste on the threads.

Good luck ;)

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 10:04 GMT (UK)

Thank you Kiltaglassan

So I wondered if this marriage af an Ellen Bryson daughter of Robert is relevant. I suspect the husbands surname is Nevin as Nivin is not in census.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10314/5754587.pdf

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 10:17 GMT (UK)

This could be the same Ellen Bryson in Ballymena unmarried in 1901. Son Robert aged 2 and daughter Sarah aged 5.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Linenhall_Street/926246/

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 10:20 GMT (UK)

Looks like Martha Gordon registered the birth of Ellen's daughter Sarah so that does fit.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02175/1823538.pdf

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 10:28 GMT (UK)

The 1911 census record for Ellen Nevin shows 4 children born and 3 alive. The two children listed with Ellen and John Nevin were his children born after they married in 1901. So it looks like one of Ellen's two children Sarah and Robert Bryson born before 1901 was still alive in 1911. I can see one Sarah Bryson aged 14 listed as a visitor in Owensland in 1911 who would be a possibility.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 14 January 24 17:18 GMT (UK)

Quote from: lmgnz on Friday 12 January 24 10:28 GMT (UK)

The 1911 census record for Ellen Nevin shows 4 children born and 3 alive. The two children listed with Ellen and John Nevin were his children born after they married in 1901. So it looks like one of Ellen's two children Sarah and Robert Bryson born before 1901 was still alive in 1911. I can see one Sarah Bryson aged 14 listed as a visitor in Owensland in 1911 who would be a possibility.

Thanks. I’d miss-read “Nivin” as “Nixon” the other day for some reason. The child who had died by 1911 was John James Nevin (1903-1906).

They seem to have counted Ellen’s first two children (Sarah in 1896, Robert in 1898) as being born to the 1901 marriage, which suggests John James Nevin (senior) was their biological father.

I agree that it is probably Ellen’s daughter Sarah aged 14 in Owensland in 1911. It is interesting that she is still a Bryson though, which contradicts my previous point.

Anyway, if that is Ellen’s daughter in Owensland with the Andrew family, that could be significant for the Bryson connections. William Andrew’s wife Margaret (d. 1908) was a daughter of Robert Bryson of Ballyvoy. From the will of Robert’s brother John (1859), we know they had a brother James (in America at the time) who had a son called Robert.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: ruthamy05 on Sunday 14 January 24 19:52 GMT (UK)

Many moons ago I began this thread......and here I am, 18 years later, still looking for the same people. The Brysons of Ballywee. I am happy and excited to see all of your posts, sure wish we could find the answers but there are so many John’s James and William Brysons out there it is very confusing. After all this time I have still not found James Bryson, who was the son of John of Ballywee who came to the U.S. in 1830. And I'm till trying to figure out how James Milford is John Bryson’s grandson and if Andrew Smyth actually is a son of John or just someone John called “son” in his will....so many questions. All of you have provided such wonderful insight, and done so much research..you are super sleuths. I hope that somehow we can sort this all out together. Deb has certainly done a ton of work in the last year making the connections and seeing where they go. I look forward to seeing where this challenge goes. Happy New Year! Let's make it a Bryson one!
Ruth

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: threekids5 on Sunday 14 January 24 22:18 GMT (UK)

It would certainly help if we could find our James's grave. We know he existed and have DNA matches to his grandchildren but no burial. There are unmarked graves at Kilbride so maybe he's buried in one of those.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Tuesday 26 March 24 06:23 GMT (UK)

I started to update the Bryson information this morning and thought I posted on the two Brysons, James and Robert, listed at McVickersland in the 1833 Tithes. But when I returned later it had not gone through. I will get back to them later if they still have not appeared but it is quite likely that the James Bryson in the Tithes was the missing James Bryson, son of John W Bryson.

However looking back through the posts I realise I did not get back to Lorna about the family of Robert Bryson and Eleanore Gawn. I happened to be looking through my Gawn DNA matches last night and realised I have a DNA match in this family.

As Lorna said Robert Bryson died quite young and as Gilby said there were only two sons from this marriage that we know about. My information came from the GawnFamilyStory website but I extended from that information in Ancestry trees.

One son James Bryson died young and did not have any family but the other son, John Alexander Bryson did marry ( to Mary Gamble) and emigrated to Ottowa Canada where he died in 1895. By my count John and Mary had 4 sons and 5 daughters born in Canada. My DNA match lies in the family of the second son Robert Bryson and his wife Sarah Reid.

My common Ancestors with my Bryson DNA match are my 5th gt grandparents John Gawn and Mary Brooks and we are 6th cousins so only share a small amount of DNA. But fortunately enough for Ancestry to connect us via a common ancestor.

It also seems that yDNA has just confirmed the connection between the Bryson family of Ballybracken (belonging to Robert Bryson b c1790 who married Eleanor Gawn), and the family of John W Bryson of Ballywee which is also a very distant connection.

From the behind scenes research it appears that Robert Bryson was the son of John Bryson b c1752 of Ballybracken and his wife Janet. This information comes from a tombstone transcription for plot#25 Kilbride.

"Erected in memory of John Bryson of Ballybracken who departed this life 1st May 1812 aged 60 years, also 3 of his children, also his wife Janet Bryson who departed this life 10th August 1833 aged 73 years."

This John Bryson was probably a cousin of John W Bryson of Ballywee who is listed in an 1803 deed as a brother of James Bryson of Holestone. James Bryson of Holestone erected a tombstone in Kilbride for his father James Bryson who died 1803 aged 71. (plot #223)

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 27 March 24 23:24 GMT (UK)

Before I repost on the James Bryson of McVickersland, I want to mention a couple of Deeds unearthed by Gilby.

The first is ROD 797/255/538390
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-Q9HQ-5?i=163&cat=185720

I will not attempt to transcribe this but in summary a John Bryson obtained the lease of a 51 acres farm in Ballybracken from a John Sittlington who was granted that lease in 1769. This JOhn Bryson was the father of James Bryson (who became his heir) and his brothers John, Alexander and Hugh. James Bryson transferred that lease, which he had inhertited, to his brothers in 1779. JOhn Bryson of Ballywee was witness to that transfer.

By 1823 Alexander had been granted part of that farm by his brother Hugh (who died shortly after) so at the time of this deed owned half the farm, and this deed records the transfer of that half of 51 acres to a John Bryson of Ballybracken. Alexander was presumably the brother of the John Bryson of Ballybracken who was born c1752 and died 1812, so the John Bryson of Ballybracken of this 1823/24 deed, was probably Alexander's nephew. John Bryson, who was the oldest son of John Bryson born c1752,was born c1785 and married Margaret Ballah.

The other deed is dated 1825. I hope the link works. Date: 3 Nov 1825
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-SS32-6?i=246&cat=185720

This deed refers to another memorial deed dated 1 Nov 1803 between John Bryson of Ballywee and James Bryson of Holestone, who were brothers. James Bryson of Holestone erected the Tombstone transcribed below which says their father James Bryson died 1 June 1803.

This stone is erected by James Bryson of Holestone in memory of his wife Isabella who died 1st April 1797 aged 41. Also his father who died 1st June 1803 aged 71. Also his mother who died 1st May 1807 aged 65 and two of his children. Also the erector who died 20th February 1832 aged 64 years.

This James who died 1803 (born c 1732) was possibly the James Bryson of "then of Ballyvoy" who was the heir of John Bryson in the first deed.

Title: Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
Post by: lmgnz on Thursday 28 March 24 01:03 GMT (UK)

Moving on to James bryson son of John Bryson of Ballywee; there are two main contenders for this James Bryson. They are:

1 James Brison of Ballybracken who married Ann McConnel of Ballyvoy on 19 Jan 1829 (1st Donegore)
2 James Brison of Holestone who married Martha Ann McConnell of Ballywee on 5 Jul 1831. "

The transcription of the tombstone #223 Kilbrde) erected by James Bryson of Holestone in the previous post also has the following after the death of the erector in 1832 "Likewise his granddaughter Lizziie Bryson who died 26 March 1858 aged 10 years and his grandson Thoas Bryson who died 26 Aug 1860 aged ?19 years" Both of these grandchildren belonged to parents James Bryson and Martha McConnell who are buried in plot #224. Both Lizzie and Thomas are listed again on the tombstone for plot 224. So James Bryson who married Martha McConnell was the son of James Bryson of Holestone.

Which leaves James bryson of Ballybracken as the main contender for the son of John Bryson of Ballywee, whose 1836 Will says that James was deceased but had surviving children.

Other deeds show that John Bryson of Ballywee had sold his Ballywee lease and purchased other leases in Ballybracken in the 1820s.

In the 1833 Tithes (online at PRONI) James Brison of McVickersland held two farms, one of 21 acres and the other of 42 acres.

James does not appear in the Griffiths valuations and Ann Bryson of Ballybracken, widow, nee McConnell married Malcom Barkely of Ballyclaverty on 3 May 1850

Ann Barkley died 1875 aged 71 and her death at Ballywoodock was registered by William Samuel Bell.

Mary Bryson of Ballyclaverty, daughter of James, married William Samuel Bell on 20 May 1858 at Parkgate
Robert Bryson of Ballyclaverty, son of James married Sarah Caldwell of Holestone on 13 Sep 1860 at Parkgate

Mary Bryson appears to have been born c1836/1837 so could well have been a posthumous child of James Bryson.

Robert was probably born c1830 so there is potential for another child born 1829 or possibly two others born between Robert and Mary.

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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: ruthamy05 on Friday 03 October 08 00:38 BST (UK)