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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Telford 1445 on Saturday 04 October 08 14:57 BST (UK)
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I am trying to locate the Gas House at Trentham Hall without success. The Census entry for 1851 puts it between Trentham Hall Laundry & the Duchess's School while the 61 has it between the Girls School and the Trentham Estate Yard & Farm Yard.
I have tried "walking" the census route using modern day maps and also those available on the old-maps website but do not feel very confident that I am in the right place on the Estate.
I am wondering if anyone knows if the School is the derelict building alongside Park Drive at it's junction with the A34 and opposite the Mausoleum (as viewed on Google Earth) which would narrow down the location of the Gas House or was it elsewhere?
If anybody also knows where the Gas Works building was on the Estate then that would really be the icing on the cake :)
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Have you tried contacting the local library? If its the place I am thinking of the site has undergone considerable restoraion over the last few years and is now a huge retail complex and gardens. Well worth a visit.
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Hi Liverpool Lass,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've tried Staffs R.O. at Stafford (visited) & Hanley (phoned), I've also emailed Trentham Gardens to see if they have any old plans of the estate - they don't.
Stafford had plenty of info on the Estate but I couldn't locate anything specific to the Gas Works or Gas Manager/Makers House. I did get a link to Dunrobin where the Gas Maker (Elijah Derbyshire) had moved in his employment with the Sutherland family in 1871 along with his wife & two youngest daughters.
The record took the form of complaints from the Steward as to how much coal was being used to produce gas for the Castle, although eventually there was an admission that the coal in that part of Scotland was different to the type used in Staffordshire and that Elijah - who by this time was 60 - wasn't slacking by not cleaning out the Retorts properly :)
Will just have to keep searching I think - and it's not even my side of the family!! ::)
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I was told by one of Stafford's Archivists that the Sutherland Papers would soon all be on line, there maybe something in there to help you pinpoint the Gas House, surely it wasn't near any other buildings was it?? linell.
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Keep searching Telford. Somewhere the size of that estate must have heaps of info out there in the ether! Good luck!
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Hi Linell & Liverpool Lass
I was thinking the Gas Works would be quite a way from the main house as well but given the location of buildings on the 1881 map I don't know. My thoughts are it was either one end of Park Drive or the other but I'll find it somehow because it's now seriously getting to me :)
I have been watching the Sutherland Papers coming on line and hopefully they should be complete by the end of this year - been looking for a while so what's another few months?
Liverpool Lass, I will keep looking odds are that I will stumble across it while searching for something else - I do tend to find myself being side tracked when I am in Libraries or Record Offices, much to my partners dismay ;)
Louise
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Good luck Louise, I go there quite often, will be thinking of you and the Gas Works now whilst walking around :)linell
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The Duchess school use to be on the A34 opposite what is now the poachers Cafe. It was next door to the Trentham Institute and on the other side after a private drive to house owned by the Wenger Family . Next door to that is the cemetery and Mausoleum. Opposite that is Park drive leading to the back entrance to the Gardens and the entrance to the Park. On the right hand side of Park Drive is what used to be known as the courtyard which had the stables ,blacksmith and slaughter house. Laundry, grain store for the estate. The Gas house was next door to the Laundry, this has now been converted into accommodation. It was at the back of the Stables where there is an arch in the shape of a horse shoe. There was also another school in the courtyard under the clock tower, this was very derelict when I last saw it 3 years ago.I know this as I lived in the courtyard as a child as my granddad was the last gamekeeper for the Duke, and I went to school in both of these schools also in the Lotte Black and White cottage (Brothie Cottage)now restored in the gardens.
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Lucky you Vera, sounds idyllic, thanks for the wonderful description, will have to get up there and have a good look for these landmarks. Best Wishes from Linell.
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Dear Vera & Trentham Estate Searchers
I was fascinated to read your messages about the Trentham Estate, and the chapter (James Hicks - The Last Gamekeeper) which you contributed to in the book "Trentham Refelections" by Graham Bebbington. The photographs are lovely. I have just returned from Staffordshire where my husband & I spent a couple of very useful days researching his Beech Family at the Staffordshire Archives, the Sutherland Collection is a real treasure trove - one day of searching is just not enough. I found the lodge keepers note book very helpful as it noted down arrival and departure times of all the workers and some very interesting comments! Have you any idea where the lodge keeper's house was? I too noticed the derelict buildings on the left hand side as you enter Park Drive from the main A34 (almost opposite the Mausoleum) and although some old maps show those buildings as a school I thought maybe they might have had an earlier use. The period I am talking about is from 1813 - yes nearly two hundred years ago! Logically it would have been placed at an entrance gate, and that does seem to be nearest to all the stables, laundry, blacksmiths etc.
I understand that in the early 1830's there was a real hive of activity with lots of new building works going on so original buildings could have either been demolished or up-dated. The Church was one of those buildings with the south wall being built with old stones from the original church and the Norman pillars incorporated into the new building. The porch was rebuilt using the arch from a previous building dated 1153. In the church there are memorial tiles to some of the estate workers including James Beech (blacksmith) and his wife Elizabeth. The church was re-dedicated in 1844. If you like to see the old wooden pews in the church, don't wait, there are plans to replace these in a few months time, finances permitting! The Mausoleum was built in 1807 and it is Grade 1 listed. Some of the old graves are in a dangerous condition and I believe there is to be an inspection very soon, so some might be moved on the grounds of safety. Now is the time to look before they go!
Plans are also in the pipeline to build a new hotel on the site of the old hall which was situated just outside the south door of the church. This hotel will give spectacular views of the lake and gardens, but I suspect will make the interior of the church darker than it is now.
Can I suggest that anyone who is researching members of their family tree who were workers on the Trentham Estate go and have a look now before it all changes. You can then go back again to see how some of the buildings have been restored. Buildings like the laundry, gas works & blacksmiths have already been improved so are no longer in danger of falling down, but I think they are privately owned. Please tread carefully.
Best Wishes,
Patsy
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Hi, I have just found this site today, while trying to find out why the property owned by the Wenger family was called the Priory, I was born and lived in Trentham until I was 23, I would be about 10 when the Priory as we called it was pulled down is there anyone who has information on this subject. I have read all the other posts re Trentham and find the whole thing fascinating. I attended Trentham Infants and Junior School from January 1953 to December1959, I have a book of early to mid 1900's photo's of Trentham including the Institute and other buildings including the Bothie
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Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any photos of the Priory mansion, owned by the Wengers, or of the Duchess School on the A34 opposite the Poachers Cottage, formerly the Cafe Monica. I do have a good mental recollection of them both, but would love to see a photo of them. I did not move to Trentham until 1959. I attended the old school until it closed, and the old Priory acted as a playground for a while. I would be glad to chat to anyone about either the Priory or the Duchess School Many Thanks Bailzie
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In reply tp photographs of Trentham old school, I think you would enjoy reading Trentham reflections by Graham Bebbington published by Churnet valley books, there is a chapter and photographs of Trentham school before it was demolished. I went to that school also attended the dolls house as we use to call it in the gardens and the school rooms under the clock tower in the courtyard. Those were the days. There is also a picture of the old Monica cafe before it ws converted in to poachers cottage. Regarding Mr Wengers House, also known as the priory, I have also been trying to get a photo of it, but nobody seems to have one. I use to go carol singing there and they use to sit in front of us at Church. In the buildings between the Wengers Priory as it was known was the headmasters house again a picture is in this book. I hope this is of help.
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Dear Vera & Trentham Estate Searchers
I was fascinated to read your messages about the Trentham Estate, and the chapter (James Hicks - The Last Gamekeeper) which you contributed to in the book "Trentham Refelections" by Graham Bebbington. The photographs are lovely. I have just returned from Staffordshire where my husband & I spent a couple of very useful days researching his Beech Family at the Staffordshire Archives, the Sutherland Collection is a real treasure trove - one day of searching is just not enough. I found the lodge keepers note book very helpful as it noted down arrival and departure times of all the workers and some very interesting comments! Have you any idea where the lodge keeper's house was? I too noticed the derelict buildings on the left hand side as you enter Park Drive from the main A34 (almost opposite the Mausoleum) and although some old maps show those buildings as a school I thought maybe they might have had an earlier use. The period I am talking about is from 1813 - yes nearly two hundred years ago! Logically it would have been placed at an entrance gate, and that does seem to be nearest to all the stables, laundry, blacksmiths etc.
I understand that in the early 1830's there was a real hive of activity with lots of new building works going on so original buildings could have either been demolished or up-dated. The Church was one of those buildings with the south wall being built with old stones from the original church and the Norman pillars incorporated into the new building. The porch was rebuilt using the arch from a previous building dated 1153. In the church there are memorial tiles to some of the estate workers including James Beech (blacksmith) and his wife Elizabeth. The church was re-dedicated in 1844. If you like to see the old wooden pews in the church, don't wait, there are plans to replace these in a few months time, finances permitting! The Mausoleum was built in 1807 and it is Grade 1 listed. Some of the old graves are in a dangerous condition and I believe there is to be an inspection very soon, so some might be moved on the grounds of safety. Now is the time to look before they go!
Plans are also in the pipeline to build a new hotel on the site of the old hall which was situated just outside the south door of the church. This hotel will give spectacular views of the lake and gardens, but I suspect will make the interior of the church darker than it is now.
Can I suggest that anyone who is researching members of their family tree who were workers on the Trentham Estate go and have a look now before it all changes. You can then go back again to see how some of the buildings have been restored. Buildings like the laundry, gas works & blacksmiths have already been improved so are no longer in danger of falling down, but I think they are privately owned. Please tread carefully.
Best Wishes,
Patsy
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Hello, Many thanks for the information, I will certainly get hold of the book, and see if i can get a print of the school and the Cafe Monica, i will also keep trying to get a photo of the Priory Mansion, and if i do i will let you have a copy, Thanks again Bailzee
Ps you dont have a son named Kevin by any chance.
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Hi, I live on the Development that is the old Trentham estate. I can confirm that the Gas House is the derelict building adjacent the the Bungalows on the entrance to Park Drive. It is not easy to see from the road unless you know to look for it becasue it is quite overgrown. It is located next to the 'ice house' which is more or less a cave in the steep sided hill with a iron gate sealing the entrance.
I heard that the Bungalow used to be the school house but am not sure how accurate this is. The gas house is currently owned by St. Modwens. If you require any further information please feel free to contact me direct (*).
I am interested to find out as much as I can about the old Trentham estate but there does not seem to be much information readily accessible out there.
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Regarding searches for old Trentham buildings, do you or anyone else have any images of the small RAF Trentham station offcies located opposite the Monica cafe and Whitnmore Rd junction?.
Only the lane approach with some old blue brick walling remains, but the offices occupied the new houses in the direction of the Monica Cafe, when my dad was an officer there and where my mother Elizabeth Dale did WAAF weekend auxiluiary work before they married. I only remember the place as a toddler in the early 50's.
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I can inform you what buildings opposite the Monica Cafe in the 1940,s. First the mausoleum with the grave yard, behind being Mr & Mrs Wengers house(now demolished but the some of the drive way is still there with a side entrance to the cemetery . Next was a building used for the scouts but one of the teachers lived in that for a small time. Next the school and the school house facing the court yard which one entered from the road. The school had a higher yard where there were two airraid shelters which were behind the school house. Also in the court yard wasTrentham Institute, a beautful Black and white building. The was used by the services during the war, next door was another Big black and white building, This use to be where the master of the hunt use to live, it was big enough to be a hotel then next to that was the bridge which was built for a railway which was never used and then the entrance to Trentham Park railway station. The present Queen when she was married but not queen stayed in a carriage at this station overnight. Just before the bridge on the other side is what was called Dog kennel lane now Whitmore road All the Black and White building have, and the school have been knocked down when the A34 was widened, go to http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/engine/search/default_hndlr.asp?txtKeywords=trentham&lstContext=&lstResourceType=&lstExhibitionType=&chkPurchaseVisible=&rbAlphabeticalRecent=1&txtDateFrom=&txtDateTo=&originator=%
2Fengine%2Fsearch%2Fdefault%5Fhndlr%2Easp&page=20&records=267&direction=1&pointer=22372&text=0,
for a picture of the institute and page 21 from another angle. Next door to the monica cafe use to be the local shop. I hope this is of help
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Hi, Can anybody tell me what the cafe was originally, that fronts the A34.
Regards sue45.
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The Monica was orginally one building with two metal door entrances facing each other. The one on the left was the cafe and the one on the right the village shop. I recall getting bread, not bread as we see today but loaves about two foot long and you asked for a portion, sugar in blue bags, and I recall exchanging food coupons. The cafe had about three windows which were leaded and square tables but i cannot remember the type of chairs. Afternoon tea and coffee but I cannot remember lunches as I lived locally. I hope this information is of help
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Thanks,
Looks to be in the right place, The mention of used by the services would fit also, the views put the buildings to the south of the lane approach with the remnant blue walling bricks.
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As regards Dog Kennel Lane , I was under the impression from my mum that it was the road that took off from the Whitmore road towards Newcastle, at the top of the hill, as we used to live down a small lane off it in a 'double decker' caravan, but do correct me if I am wrong.
Shame they trashed the outdoor pool I went to and the old minature railway too. I remember the Monica cafe as a sort of chintzy sort of cafe and the old entrance to the grounds and lots more.
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Re Dog Kennel Lane. This lane was named after the Dog kennels which was owned by the Duke of Sutherland, on the right hand side leaving Trentham you go over the river Trent, then you see a small cottage with a farm gate this house which was known then as the Kennels ( now extended) was for the kennels helpers and further down the road used to be the dog Kennels,It was a white building and had another entrance where the road is now called Fairway. During the war it was the depot for Red cross ambulances, The reason I know this as I was a child living in the kennels house. The dog Kennels house was knocked down when the new estate was built. The area you mention about the double decker caravan, I recal that was on the area by Northwood lane which does lead to Clayton and then Newcastle.
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Thanks, Northwood Lane rings a bell, Dog Kennel Lane was often referred to but I never saw a sign as such! The photos you mentioned are a great collection, and with maps from Oldmaps I can follow the plans up to 1952 when my dad was C/O there. The lane also went up to the redundant Trentham Park Station it seems.
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Hi, Thank-you VeraH, for the reply to my query regarding the Monica cafe.
Sue45.
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Hello, I cannot seem to find any photos of the Priory mansion which was owned by the Wengers in Trentham, If anyone knows of any sources of pictures could you please let me know it would be greatly appreciated
I am now going to try and describe the old house from what i can remember as an 11 year old back in 1961 as i feel there should be some written record of the old property. If anyone can add anything at all please contact me and i will update my description.
The old Priory mansion which I think it was called was owned by the Wenger family I have no idea of any dates etc, and was situated on the road now aptly called Wenger Crescent. If you were to come up from the A34 nearly opposite the Poachers Cottage Restaurant, (formerly the Cafe Monica), to the left of the cemetery and mausoleum you will come to the original gate posts of the driveway, go up to the top of the road and turn right on to Werburg Drive, take the next left which is Wenger Crescent and the house occupied a large site on the left hand side of the road, down as far as the old Cedar tree, if it is still there. On the other side of Wenger Crescent, opposite the old house were the tennis courts, possibly two, and some overgrown garden If you looked across the road to the left of the house was a small coppice with a formed archway running towards the rear or the house ,which you could walk through. Then you had the house, I can remember it being a very old large ivy clad house, though i cannot recall just how many downstairs and upstairs windows there were, in my thoughts there was Five or Six windows of each, and in the middle of the house on the lawn was a very old rotten Oak tree. To the right of the house was another overgrown garden, I can remember a six or eight sided fountain made from sandstone panels being there. If you went down to the right of the house you came to the wine cellar go down the steps into the cellar and you could see the many wine racks which by now were all empty, all except for a few remaining full soda siphons (what good fun they were). Carrying on down the side of the house you were blocked by part of the stables so you had to turn right to the end of the building to where i think there was a possible road. I can recall there being a large wall on the other side of the “road” With a very large lean to greenhouse attached to it, I can remember picking grapes from the old vine which rambled through the greenhouse both inside and outside where it had found its way passing through the many broken panes. Going between the end stable and the greenhouse wall then turn left there was stables on both sides of a cobbled road, again I cannot remember just how many stables there were possibly Ten or Twelve. Looking down between the stables I think you would see the driveway which you came up from the A34. Before the housing estate was built there were acres of fields, most probably used mainly as pasture and grazing land. I do not know where the Wengers property borders were, at a guess I think they may have run from near to the A34 to New Inn Lane, and the other way from close to the old railway line , just behind Werburg Drive on the left down as far as the brook on the right. Unfortunately I cannot recall much more on the Wengers Priory Mansion, so if anyone can add too or correct anything I have got wrong it would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. What a wonderful house this would have been. I. Thanks for reading this, hope someone will come up with some more pieces of the jigsaw Thanks Bailzie
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VeraH brought back some fine memories of Trentham. It was the Trentham I knew in the 30s and 40s. Trentham Gardens was paradise. So was the park. We didn't have much of anything. But compared to today's standards we had more. How can I forget Trentham Parochial School? There was a narrow pathway just below Wenger's driveway to the right, which we took. The main entrance was further down opposite an old rambling post office building-bars on the windows-and two entrances.
The school had three playgrounds. One for the girls on the left and the other two for boys. There was a lower playground, and a brick slope connecting it to the top playground. On the left of the upper playground Wenger's apple and pears were lodged behind a brick wall topped with some wire. It failed to keep us out. Wenger's apples were the best.
Between the rough and tumble of Trentham kids versus Hanford kids, we also faced canings by Miss Blakemore for crimes committed against humanity - snowballing, not learning poems, and, lateness. Usually, four slashes across the hand. A Mr. Mellor was the headmaster and dwelled in an abutting house in the girl's playground. Later, Mr Goldstone, who drove and maintained the Garden's trains, resided there with his family.
The school consisted of a kindergarten on the right of the Main Entrance, a single classroom on the left of a hallway, which led to the largest classroom boasting a concertina-style folding wall. At a school concert-Christmas, I believe- I recall one young singer bringing the house down with her rendition of a song - "...nice people with nice manners, but, got no money at all." I believe her name was Miss Darling.
The Mauseleum always scared us at night and it was a dare to walk by it. There was a cold stone house next to the upper playground fronting on Wenger's driveway once used by the schoolmaster. It was cold - like the Arctic. We briefly held the first Trentham Scout Troop meetings there.
One noon time, my sister and I took a bag of potatoe chips and sat at a table in the Monica Cafe crunching the chips between margerine sandwiches. Naturally, we were politely asked to leave, unless we wanted tea. We couldn't afford tea, so we left.
There were some beautiful historical black and white half-timbered houses lining the driveway into the school house. At the outset of the war, a company of Newfoundland Pioneers were billeted there. Later, a NAAFI quonset hut was erected next to the school to serve soldiers. With some pennies we were able to buy some of their biscuits.
A large partially submerged air raid shelter was dug in on an upper level overlooking the girl's playground. We were all treated to a few visits during fly overs by Goering's "finest." It was a dank, dark tube, the only light was emitted from a blue curtain at the end of the shelter which served as a lavatory. Fortunately, we spent little time there.
Soldiers dug in machine gun emplacements below the railings next to the mauseleum facing the park entrance. And, on the road to Stone on a hill belonging to the Trentham Golf Course a round white pillbox appeared one day - a standout target. Wenger's field abutting Longton Road and Stuart Avenue were dotted with long poles to thwart glider landings. Trentham Lake was festooned with booms just below the surface of the water, designed to wreck any seaplane landings.
Village kids used to race through a copse from Stone Road into Wenger's field next to Brook Road, fearful that someone was always chasing them. Little is left of the copse. The old chicken house was demolished.
POWs were seen in the village tightening barbed wire on barricades next to the Barlaston Old Road, where the signposts had been removed. We had an active CD and Home Guard presence - always on guard, always practicing.
Village constables marched in front of their Longton Road HQ in steel helmets and sloped arms during the opening days of the war.
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To Trekker and all readers
Trentham school , thanks for the memories, can I bring you a few more. Do you remember the gas mantels and the tallest person in the class had to stand on the table and light them. Also all the classrooms and the hall had slates around the walls so we could write or draw on them. We did not have paper but slates to write on, on side had HTU ( hundreds, tens and units) the other side was blank. We all had 1/3 pint of milk with a carboard top ( ideal to make pom poms) but in the winter the milk would be frozen so we had to warm the milk in its bottles in front of the large open fire and the tops would come up and the milk use to make such a mess and smell.I remember the air raid shelter and the toilet at the end. My brother, Brian attended cubs at the old school house, that is the one where the entrance was on Wengers drive, not where Mr Goldstone lived which was next door to the school and Institute(NAAFI). I recall my grandfathers house at the Rosary at the entrance to the park, having the metal railings removed for metal for the war and the french and polish refugees coming in the park. My grandad was very upset as they started killing the deer for food.
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There are some great pictures of Trentham on this site, as mentioned by VeraH.
William Blake's shots of the Gardens unveil a Trentham I once knew. The pictures of the swimming pool - where else did such a pool exist in England? - reminded me of evening bike treks to it, either along the lake, or, the path that ran adjacent to the Park.
As a Sea Cadet, we'd paddle canoes to the far end of the Lake where the Swiss Chalet sat, dispensing tea and cakes to strollers, or, train riders at the terminus of the little railway.
The Institute pictures truly show the historic past of Trentham. Unfortunately, like Trentham Hall, and the Ballroom, all were demolished.
A picture showing Ash Green Corner with the large brick wall surrounding the Gardens, also shows what was to become Ash Green Post Office managed by the Pavitts. The house sits on the right foreground in the picture.
Believe it was Albert Pavitt as owner/manager, assisted by his brother Harry, who resided a stone's throw off Longton Road above the combination Post Office and store. Besides stamps, you could buy bread and groceries, rent books, and even manage a Post Office savings account.
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Hello,
I know that you have been seeking help with the location of the Gas House in Park Drive, Trentham for sometime. I hope that I am not too late to answer your question, so forgive me if you already have all the answers.
When Trentham Hall was built in the 1830/40's a new form of lighting was installed - Gas. The British Gas Company had been operating in the Potteries since the 1820's, but their works in Etruria was too far away to serve Trentham Hall. So, in the early 1840's a private gas works was designed for Trentham Hall. The site of the new works was a quarry on the north side of the estate buildings. The quarry had originally supplied the stone for an earlier rebuilding of Trentham Hall and it now provided a ready-made enclosure for the gasometer and the cottage for the gas maker. Sadly, the building was demolished in the early 1990's. Fortunately, I have been taking photographs of the decline of the former estate for over 40 years. The first occupant as gas maker was Elijah Derbyshire who came from Worsley in Lancashire. Elijah ran the works for the next 35 years. The final gas maker was Charles Anderson, by 1891 the gasworks had been made redundant, because a mile to the north on the River Trent at Turbine Cottage, a turbine was installed to supply electricity to the Hall, although this was short-lived as the Hall became redundant and was consequently demolished in May 1911. Hope this is useful, if there is anything else that you need to know about the Trentham Estate of indeed, the Sutherland Family, then please feel free to ask. In the attached map, I have indicated all the relevant estate buildings.
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Uncovering yet another mystery about Trentham's past. Thanks for the map and well-indexed plan of the old courtyard off Park Drive. If you cut through the courtyard past the fountain in the center, a driveway lead to The Dairy, a beautiful Tudor half timbered residence, formerly occupied by the Arrowsmiths.
Miniature houses, or doll's houses, we used to call them, were near the residence. I believe The Dairy still stands and the courtyard has been turned into apartments. In the old days of Trentham Gardens, some of the courtyard homes housed estate workers, as did many lining the driveway and also near the former Monica Cafe.
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Interesting that you mention the Dairy House. This building was designed by the Estates Surveyor/ Architect Thomas Roberts who resided at the Surveyors House (see my Trentham Map). This Dairy replaced an earlier building which still exists, but sadly is in a rather bad state of repair. It is located underneath the Sculpture Gallery and can seen looking across the river towards the Duke's apartments. See attached photographs.
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You give a plan of old Trentham, I can add a little more for your information as I use to live in the courtyard. You point out the Malt house, next door use to be the stables where as a child their use to be cart shire horses, one called Sampson who I rode bare back, they were working horses. Next door the coke store and last was the farrier. The vicarage is now in its place. The centre area as you mention is a fountain, this use to be the horse trough. The slaughter workshops on the top right, I knew very well as my grandad use to slaughter the deer at culling time. The right part of the slaughter house was a cold store whereby the left side was a large area , with white tiles and a high ceiling with plenty of hooks and hangers to hang carcass of venison. There were no cow sheds , those building were grain stores then though the arch way led to the carpenters shop, Hay stack and carrage repair area, As mentioned if you go past the slaughter house the road leads to the Dairy House ( Where Mr Allum the estate manager use to live) Next door use to be a house which consisted of two separate flats and a long corrider and at the at the end was a circular room. This room was used for the Girl Guides before they went into the Brothie( Dolls House in the gardens) A Miss Slin used to live there, as she was the housekeeper for Major Frazer who was the MP for Stone and Stafford for many years. Across the road from the court yard use to be the police house next to the Poultry house. At the far end of the poultry house was the apple orchard and during the war and in the 1940-50, was used as allotments for estate workers. There is a quarry at the top of the park just before the motorway and Gravel pit lodge. I hope this information is of help.
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Great information. But I think I might have mislead you. The black and White houses I was referring to are situated - or, were - just inside the park gates and set back on the right hand side. Believe these were part of the Duke's estate at one time. My mother and father both worked for the Arrowsmiths when they resided there. And, I was very well acquainted with constable who lived next door to the Poultry House. The pictures were intriguing. Fior as much as I thought I knew Trentham, I can't recall seeing this building, even though I had been in the Courtyard many times. In fact, my father came home one afternoon soaked to the skin after flipping over his bicycle handlebars into the horse trough you mentioned.
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Re The Dairy house where Mr Allum( late 1940 early 1950) use to live, yes it was part of the estate, I know it is now a Bed /Breakfast and I enclose a photo of how it looks today
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidoss/3563835459/
This house had a manager before Mr Allum but I cannot think of his name. The Arrowsmiths may have lived in it before the period we are talking about. In my Grandads time when he lived in what is now the Golf Club house in the park.
It was on the right hand side facing the little bridge which is next door to the original entrance to the Hall ( from the Park). Then behind it was the other house where Major Frazer used to live, but that was only accessable though the estate yard.
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Hi All, I am new to this forum and have stumbled across you while searching for a photo of the old bus shelters that used to at the side of the entrance gates and used to be full of queues of waiting people for the buses.
Have enjoyed reading your memories. I used to live in Whitmore Road and remember the Kennels Cottage catching fire around Christmas time probalby in the 1980s (I think we were watching Towering Inferno on the TV at the time!) That's when it got rebuilt as it is today. Previous tenants of the cottage now live in the house we lived in then.
We now live in Wales.
Sue
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Penylan Sue - I remember those shelters having stood and waited for a PMT bus to Stoke or Hanley many times. Believe theyappeared about the time the OCTU (Arc-tually) Officer Cadet Training Unit was established in Trentham Park. As boys we enjoyed their obstacle course, some firmly believing they could become officers by fulfilling it. Trentham was a wonderful village to grow up in. Besides the speciall gardens, we had the hills, the streams, and woods in the park. I used to bike the Whitmore Road to the RN Transportation Depot in Clayton from my home on Stone Road. The main hangar of the Depot was laid out like the deck of an aircraft carrier. Dozens of hatchways lined the walls, all overshadowed by what was considered the superstructure on an aircraft carrier. The upper level served as offices. Fitters, stores, painters and other units occupied the main deck. Its prime mission was to restore all vehicular traffic for the RN and RM. Yes, we even had tank recovery vehicles and Bren Gun Carriers.
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Thank you Trekker. I don't remember the obstacle course in the park but I believe the huts are still in there somewhere.
I still think Trentham is a special place.
Thanks onece again for the reply, Sue
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In reply, yes you go though the courtyard pass the fountain which use to be the horse trough and continue and on the left yes there was a black and white house known as the Dairy house and as you state that is where the Arrowsmiths, and latter Alums use to live. If you went further up the drive there use to be a small cottage on the right with a double garage and then bearing to the left was a large bungalow which we all called the Dolls house. This was owned in the 1940-50, by Major Frazer MP for Stafford and Stone. In the bungalow a Miss Slin who was his housekeeper use to live alone when he was not present. The building had a very long corrider with I think 2 self contained suits and at the far end there was a round conservatory which was used by the Girl Guides before they moved into the gardens into the Brothie which was the Black and white Dolls house which has recently been rebuilt (smaller than it use to be) next to the new garden Centre. I went to infant school there as a child before going to the main school ( now demolished opposite what is now poachers cottage. on the A34)
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Sue - Believe all of the old quonsets were removed with the exception of some foundation bricks. After the war, hundreds - maybe thousands - of displaced Polish men were located there. There were also quite a few Irish settling in on the slopes of the park hills. Prior to that Gen. Charles DeGaulle visited Trentham to meet with the captured French Navy and members of a French Foreign Legion unit. King George VI accompanied him. A lot has changed. Unfortunately the iconic cluster of trees that crowned the tallest hill in the park suddenly vanished, leaving it bald. They were a landmark, visible for miles around the park.
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Hello,
I know that you have been seeking help with the location of the Gas House in Park Drive, Trentham for sometime. I hope that I am not too late to answer your question, so forgive me if you already have all the answers.
When Trentham Hall was built in the 1830/40's a new form of lighting was installed - Gas. The British Gas Company had been operating in the Potteries since the 1820's, but their works in Etruria was too far away to serve Trentham Hall. So, in the early 1840's a private gas works was designed for Trentham Hall. The site of the new works was a quarry on the north side of the estate buildings. The quarry had originally supplied the stone for an earlier rebuilding of Trentham Hall and it now provided a ready-made enclosure for the gasometer and the cottage for the gas maker. Sadly, the building was demolished in the early 1990's. Fortunately, I have been taking photographs of the decline of the former estate for over 40 years. The first occupant as gas maker was Elijah Derbyshire who came from Worsley in Lancashire. Elijah ran the works for the next 35 years. The final gas maker was Charles Anderson, by 1891 the gasworks had been made redundant, because a mile to the north on the River Trent at Turbine Cottage, a turbine was installed to supply electricity to the Hall, although this was short-lived as the Hall became redundant and was consequently demolished in May 1911. Hope this is useful, if there is anything else that you need to know about the Trentham Estate of indeed, the Sutherland Family, then please feel free to ask. In the attached map, I have indicated all the relevant estate buildings.
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Hi, re turbine cottage I think this still stands also the turbine building and is now used as an MOT test center and garage.I would like information about the tunnel remains in the area just b/4 the junction of whitmore road and the A34 it is slowly being demolished what was its purpose thanks
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Re Tunnel remains by the A34, this is where the bridge use to be across the A34. It was known as the Bridge to Nowhere. This bridge was built 1946 with its railway station known as Trentham Park linking it to Pool Dam in Newcastle and then link up with another Branch line to Knutton, but the scheme was never taken up. This line being the aborted branch line had a brick built underpass or culvert a few yards on the Handford side of the bridge. For some time after the opening of this branch line there was also an unstaffed halt at New Inn lane. It was on the branch line that the then Princes Elizabeth and now the Duke stayed over night in a railway carrage (unknown to many escept the Trentham Gardens estate Office)
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Thanks for that another gap filled! re Royalty and sidings I think I recall Princes Margrets train standing at Madely station on her vists to keele uni. lots of police activty around the area also.
Might I ask another question When was the Roxy cinema demolished and the Rex And Rio closed thanks .
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I recall the Roxy Cinema demolished in Newcastle, I think it was early 60s and again the Rex and Rio Cinema's also in Newcastle, I think that was early 70s when Henry Whites store was demolished and Newcastle had a face lift. I am sorry I cannot be of more help as I have not lived in the midlands since the 70s
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Thanks for your info.
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Believe Princess Elizabeth spent a night or two on that dead end track when she visited the Potteries just before 1950. That means her coach was parked on the embankment overlooking Stone Road. Also recall a bunch of us nippers lining the banks and waving to some of the first casualties from D-Day, 1944, as they were loaded into ambulances and taken to N. Staffs Infirmary.
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The Rex and the Rio cinemas in Newcastle wee regularly visited by me as a child growing up in Newcastle in the late 1950s. According to a book in my possession called 'The Lost Empire' by Barry Blaize they closed in October 1971, the Rex re-opening in August 1972 but then closing 12 months later. My husband says that the two cinemas had shared conveniences and they would go in one door after watching a film and come out in the other cinema and watch another film for free. He said he and his pals were never caught.
I can remember the Roxy (originally the Plaza in Nelson Place before 1946) but don't remember going to it even though it was my nearest cinema as I grew up in Bow Street which was just off Barrack's road. My husband (you may have gathered is quite a bit older than me) seems to think it was a flea pit and probably didn't show such good films. Anyway, according to this same book it closed in 1957 and was demolished in 1963.
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Slightly off topic but maybe of interest:
http://web.archive.org/web/20140713004315/http://digdeeper.org.uk/?page=Trentham%20Transplant (http://web.archive.org/web/20140713004315/http://digdeeper.org.uk/?page=Trentham%20Transplant) Archieved copy of website
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Thanks for that and in my case, back on topic. I just put the info re the cinemas in because I had the answers.
Very interesting site, by the way.
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Great discovery. Who would have ever thought that the belvededere from Trentham Hall was sitting in a meadow at Sandon? And, why would Stoke on Trent destroy Trentham's historic and beautiful hall? That's just as mystifying as why Sandon decided to save part of it? Remember Trentham Station? Another wonderful one of Barry's creations gone. You have an extremely i8nteresting site.
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My great great grandparents worked at Trentham. He was a kennel man called Thomas Cox and is recorded in the 1881 census as living in the hunt stables and in 1891 in the old gas house. His wife was Hannah and the family story is that she was housekeeper although I have no evidence of this. It seems unlikely that a housekeeper would be married to a kennel man! He was supposed to have been killed by a horse but I have no details of this other than family memories.
Other than census returns, all I have from this family is the picture attached below which is supposed to be of the house they lived in. Does anyone know which building it is? there is a reference earlier in this thread to half timbered houses on the estate. I'd be grateful for any information at all.
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I know that it is quite some time since VeraH posted information about the tunnel under the A34 at Trentham but the subject has popped up again recently and a number of questions are being asked.
Was there a railway line through the tunnel?
Where did it start and finish?
What was its purpose?
From what is available today there looks to be a link with the sewage works at Hanford as there seems to be the remains of an old track running along the side of the river.
Archaeology department inform me that there was a line showing on the 1924 O.S. map but can't give any more details.
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Re Thomas Cox's house, I recognise it, it use to be on the right hand side on Longton road going towards longton. (now demolished). There is now a large roundabout in its place used to enter the Garden centre and entrance to Trentham gardens. It was opposite what use to be Ash Green Post office.
Now Trentham Park railway line, no to my knowledge there were no railway lines either over the bridge or in the tunnel, as the building of this line from Trentham Park station was abandoned when WW11 broke out. When I speak about Trentham Park railway station I am talking about the station which use to be opposite the what is now Clayton lane (Dog Kennel Lane) on Boma Road A34, (Ex London Road). Don't forget all metal was removed for war purposes including the railings which use to surround our estate house(Yellow Houses ) on entering the park. This also included the gates to the Park as my granddad was very upset over this.
The branch line started from what is now Trentham station and went to Trentham Park station and was intended to go to pool Dam in Newcastle to link up with the Newcastle - Market Drayton line.
An ironic aspect of this, is that this branch line to Trentham Park became busier than ever when the London clearing Banks evacuated to Trentham Gardens ballroom in 1939. Indeed one of the reasons for this site being chosen was because it was capable of being fully serviced by postal and railway authorities. I hope this is of help.
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Not all our history can be found in books. It is due to local knowledge that the story of the Trentham tunnel has come to light. From the initial enquiry quite a story has emerged. So to all who have been involved I would like to say a special thanks. The photograph of the tunnel by Jenna Goodwin on flickr.com was exceptional.
Alan
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I am one of a group of ladies who have been researching the 17 names of the men who are remembered on the Trentham War memorial and are now looking at what life was like in Trentham 1911-1921. if there are any family memories of that period, I'd love to hear them. It was clearly a time of great upheaval, with the Sutherland family having left, the estate buildings being sold, and of course the war.
Ann
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Hi all! I'm not sure how active this thread is after all this time but I've been lurking for a long time and thought I would finally register and have a chat!
I'm the one that took the photograph of the tunnel as referenced above.
This is that photo.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8107/8515954537_722e9404f1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/dYwuAn)Lit up tunnel in Trentham (https://flic.kr/p/dYwuAn) by Jenna Goodwin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ravenphotography2012/), on Flickr
I have been searching for a very long time for the original ice house that is on Park Drive and I am so happy to announce that tonight, after many months of searching we have found it!
Also, I think we may have found the ruins or the gas house. It is in the same place as the map that was kindly drawn on for reference earlier in the thread.
I will update when I have taken the photographs from my camera.
I can honestly say we would not have found it if it wasn't for the incredibly valuable information from this thread, so I thank you all.
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The photos and information about us finding the Ice House and possibly the old Gas House are here if you would like to read it...
http://bit.ly/1n6PAyz
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Welcome to RootsChat Jenna :D Glad that you finally took the plunge and decided to join in.
As a keen history researcher and photographer I was fascinated to read your replies and see your photographs (really good they are too)
I have posted links to all sorts urbexers pages over the years as photographers often are able brave stupid ;D ;Dto access all sorts of places modern life has almost forgotten but fascinate and interest us all as researchers.
Regards
Sarah :)
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I'm not sure how current this thread is, but I'm the Group Secretary for 114th Trentham Scout Group, now based in our own Scout Hut just off Churchill Avenue.
This year I'm planning a MayFair to celebrate 75 years of the Group itself, and several of us are looking into the history of the land we are currently on.
I've read with interest about the Wenger estate, and I've been told that our Scouthut is where the estate used to be. In all the threads I've read about running through a copse near Brook Road, and the entrance being near to the mausoleum, I don't yet feel I've come any closer to establishing the Wenger land boundaries. If anybody can share some light I'd be delighted to read it.
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Graham Bebbington has a chapter on the Wengers and the Priory in his book "Trentham Reflections". He describes the boundaries as being "roughly bordering Stone Road, Allerton Road, New Inn Lane, Brook Road, Brinsley Avenue and Longton Road, with the exception of properties already built along the lengths of those roads."
The group I am working with, Trentham 100, has a number of maps which may be helpful to you.
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In reply to the Wenger Estate. I would guess that the estate ran from the A34 back to New Inn Lane, and from the back of the houses on Werburg Drive, up to the railway embankment and to the brook which runs from New Inn Lane,behind the houses on Brook Road to the A34. I cannot think he would have been interested I the woods on the other side of the brook but I don't know. After many years of trying to find a picture of Adolph Wenger's mansion I have finally located 3 pictures of it .these are on a free site called www. britainfromabove.org.uk and type in priory mansion to view.
I noticed that someone was asking about Trentham Scouts, I went to the old scout hut which was down by the mausaliam in a very old building which was down towards the A34
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Hi to anng3 and bailzie.
Thank you both so much, I've copied 2 photos to print out, I'm meeting somebody tomorrow who knows Ken Buckley (now living in Maine USA) and his mother was the housekeeper at the Wenger House. I'll ask her to send the photos over and see what memories they provoke!
I've requested 2 Graham Bebbington books from the library also, so that will prove interesting reading. Thank you both.
anng3 - I think you have emailed me today? I have already met Sarah, and somebody else has been in touch with me on email, including somebody who lives on my road - it's a small, quiet cul-de-sac, so I'm excited to meet a neighbour and put a name to a face! Sadly I can't make the Ash Green event, I'm at Kibblestone with our Cubs. But I would love to meet up and have a look at the maps anyway? The history of the land is just one aspect of our anniversary event, but I'm so fascinated in how land changes and of course before photos we were reliant on people's memories!
Thank you both so much.x
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Interesting that you mention the Dairy House. This building was designed by the Estates Surveyor/ Architect Thomas Roberts who resided at the Surveyors House (see my Trentham Map). This Dairy replaced an earlier building which still exists, but sadly is in a rather bad state of repair. It is located underneath the Sculpture Gallery and can seen looking across the river towards the Duke's apartments. See attached photographs.
Does anyone have any advice or information on what is called the Surveyor's House on this map? I would love to find out more and the northern estate is fascinating.
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After many years of searching I have located a picture of Wenger's Priory Mansion. This can be found on
Britain from above org.com
Type in Trentham priory