RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: earley-bird on Monday 31 January 05 14:05 GMT (UK)
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yes I'm sure by now that you know who I am referring to... ;)
I am aware that this past week or so a certain UK Genaeology supplier has been contacting ebay sellers issuing threats of legal action and blacklisting. In fact I know of one Genaeologist and ebayer who has been subjected to this this week and is currently on the suppliers webpage `name and shame' list.
This supplier sells their products (including on ebay) subject to the condition that buyers cannot re-sell the product in any way whether whole or in part nor are purchasers permitted to offer paid searches from their purchased product.!
In purchasing the product the purchaser is understood to agree to these resale conditions but I am unclear what legal footing such conditions may or may not have or whether they could be enforced through any legal action.
What concerns me is that this company have chosen to take such a heavy handed approach to what after all is a predominantly personal hobby industry. Its my view that this will inevitably backfire when other suppliers take the oportunity to offer similar products without restrictions
Make no mistake this companies primary interest is in no way altruistic. Their interest in Genaelogy is first and foremost a business one and they are frankly more concerned in protecting their business investment, market share and profits than they would appear to be in you and me and our hobby/interest. They are happy to use and ebay facilities to promote their business and sell their products but would use the same facilities to threaten and intimidate others who would do likewise.
These views are mine alone and if they have caused offence or contravened the forums rules in any way I apologise but I would welcome others views on this as it has already become a highly emotive and contentious issue
best regards all
Earley
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Earley,
No, you've not broken the rules in any way.
It's an interesting development. ;)
Trystan
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Certainly is interesting ...I noticed their products and the warning on Ebay myself the other day.
However I just looked on the website and it only seems to make mention of splitting sets for resale and illegal copying - couldn't see anything about not being able to re-sell the whole thing. Did I miss it or is it just spelled out on their Ebay items?
I suspect they are struggling in the face of good quality and better priced competition. I'd be very wary about buying from them, as I'm on a limited budget and tend to offload the odd census to raise the cash to buy another (apart from those counties I use regularly).
Worrying and not good for their business and customer relations long term I reckon.
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I don't know the legal rights & wrongs of this situation however I agree that genealogy is primarily a personal hobby/interest and it seems wrong that a company who wouldn't exist if it weren't for the humble family historian should use such "strong arm" tactics. :(
Personally I think it will encourage people to look elsewhere! ;D
A big part of researching my family history is the pleasure I get from sharing my information with anyone who's interested and being able to help fellow researchers wherever possible.
Just out of interest, how many people have been prosecuted for lending a book to a friend to read, or donating a book to a charity shop to resell on behalf of their charity....surely that breaks copyright(?) law too?
Big thumbs down from me to all of those companies who take pleasure in jumping on the little people :P.
tabitha
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I'd be interested in knowing the name of companies that Rootschatters would not recommend to others... ;)
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What concerns me is that this company have chosen to take such a heavy handed approach to what after all is a predominantly personal hobby industry
Look at it from the business's point of view and you will see a very different picture. Its not one I'm sure I agree with but it is there.
Genealogy may be a hobby to the vast majority of us but there are people who have come to rely upon it for their livliehood and anyone who stands idly by while their living and perhaps that of their families is being taken from them is a fool.
Ultimately the approach this particular company has chose to take may fail and they may also fail I don't know but to deride them for trying to protect themselves is also wrong. .... what about all of the sites that charge a fee for entry/services surely if this is such a personal hobby they too should be boycotted until they open their doors and allow us free access to all of their hard work .... after all it is such a personal hobby !
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I'm going to stand up and say that I have nothing but praise for this particular company. They are *not* trying to stop the sort of lookups done on this site (Note the phrasing "nor are purchasers permitted to offer paid searches from their purchased product.".
Buying a full census set for 42.50 (or less) and sell the 30 cd's at 3-4 quid a pop isn't out of the goodness of your heart is it? Yes, there is obviously a market out there for single CD's; Anyone who wants to get into that market needs to get a licence and produce their own, not breach the T&C of sale by 'breaking up' a set produced by someone else.
APART from other issues:
S&N's customer service is second-to-none (Damaged CD?, One was in the next post to me). Addenda CD's no charge.
Want to buy an index? Ten quid cheaper to someone who purchased straight from them in the first place.
Want to have a free census piece (and lifetime access to the finished index) in exchange for name-indexing it? No trouble at all. I've now done five; That alone saved me having to buy three censuses.
I am in no way way claiming that they are inexpensive; What I *am* saying is that they provide very good value, and if you do want single pieces you don't even have to pay a single penny if you are willing to do something in return which ultimately benefits all researchers.
Pauline
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I have to agree with S&N customer service being second-to-none. I recently contacted them to ask if I could buy a separate CD to replace a damaged one.
I got an instant reply " A replacement CD has been dispatched to you at no charge - no need to return the damaged one".
You can't ask for better service than that.
Darcy
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Why did we stop people from breaching the licence on our census products?
We want to continue enabling people to do their research at home as we promised four years ago in Family Tree Magazine.
At that time you had to go to record offices to see the census.
Many thousands of genealogists have been able to research from home because of us and those who followed in our steps.
Each product is priced to recover the cost of the microfilm, scanning, editing and support. 80% of the cost of a 45 CD product is labour, microfilm and the Crown licence.
If someone splits a 45 CD set and sells the CDs on Ebay what happens?
We potentially loose 45 customers.
We loose money on publishing this census.
We need to sell thousands of units to recover our costs on these large sets.
This in the end would prevent us from publishing census products
Before we took action enforcing our licence, over 1000 CDs per week were been sold by splitting sets on Ebay. This severely damaged sales and forced us to look at staff reductions as well as the future of publishing the census.
If I was driven by profit I would be reducing the number of CDs and using cheaper film in our products.
To improve the 1841 census we use silver film, grey scale scanning and large numbers of CDs to provide bigger images. Reviews have proved that these techniques work with 30% more readable pages than other 1841 sets.
Please let us try to at least break even by not splitting or copying our sets.
Those that visit family history fairs will see myself and family serving the needs of genealogy as we have done for the last thirteen years.
Nigel (S&N)
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:D :D :D
I'm with you Tabitha - Hear ! Hear !
:) :) :)
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Sorry Mobo and tabitha I disagree.
where would we be if these companies didn't put their money up front and produce the articles we need to carry out our research.
Certainly like many others my funds are limited and I buy only what I believe I will use on a regular basis but from what I've seen on ebay these sets are being split up and sold at a profit not from any form of goodwill or altruism.
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>:( >:( >:(
Oh ! diddums for the poor profit making companies who are all making millions out of this new 'genealogy' lark - they must think it's their birthday !!
When I first started this hobby over 20 years ago, there were pratically no companies offering such things, it was all one's own personal 'slog' to libraries and churches in all conditions and weathers, and paying researchers to find information from inaccessible places.
But suddenly when the new trend in family research begins, guess what, suddenly there are companies offering all manner of information 'for sale'
I'm afraid my feelings towards big business are quite jaundiced to start with, and I resent having to deal with it to further what, after all, is just a hobby (albiet an addictive one).
I have always believed that such information should be in the Public Domain and easily accessible from small fee-paying voluntary sites, not something which has to be purchased and doesn't even belong to you due to copyright bah - humbug !!
>:( >:( >:(
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HEAR HEAR MOBO
I AGREE 100% WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID.
NICKY
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I too have slogged through years of research in churchyards and freezing libraries ..... yes much of the information should be in the public domain and in some forms it is ... just not as easily accessible as people today want it ....
We are not talking here about some huge conglomerate sending wave after wave of lawyers at some poor innocent sod who failed to dot a few i's or cross the t's in the right place.Nor are we talking about multi millionaires ripping off poor joe public .
How many small fee paying resources would exist if some one came along and started selling the work that their volunteers had gathered ..... very few.
(and yes I do know that S & N did not rely upon volunteers to create their products).
I do not support the route taken by this company as I stated earlier, I personally believe that it is self defeating but that is their choice.
They created a product and now others are trying to rip them off as I also said those selling the split sets on ebay would appear to be trying to make a profit from this rather than from any form of altruism.
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:) :) :)
"How many small fee paying resources would exist if some one came along and started selling the work that their volunteers had gathered ..."
Falkyrn, that's my whole point ! If the information were available through small-fee paying resources, what would be the point of anyone trying to sell it ?? No profit = no interest.
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Am I missing the point or has a certain company missed a marketing oppurtunity?
I am not wiiling nor able to pay £50 for 40 odd CDs when probably 40 of them are going to gather dust. With each census covered and my interest in several counties, that is a few hundred pounds and a mountain of redundant CDs.
I would however be prepared to pay say £10 for 4 of them covering a particular area where I knew I had a concentration of ancestors. If over time I found they had spread out a bit, I would probably be prepared to do the same again. I would be happy and I would have thought that the company would have been happy to have sold 8 CDs at £2.50 each, rather than none at £50 a set.
Of course those who were splitting sets and selling them on e-bay were making a profit, but that was because there was a market for them.
Phil
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The large expenditure and effort put in by S&N, and others, has helped to make family history a possible hobby for some, perhaps many, who would otherwise be frozen out. I will not go into details but I am not capable of the huge effort required to personally visit the PRO and County Record Offices. In addition I have an invalid wife and I am her main carer.
Mobo believes they can exist successfully because family history has become a big hobby that they can exploit. Perhaps family history has become a big hobby because there are these sources of information that hobbyists can exploit ???
I cannot view their wish to make profits as unreasonable.Anyone who has been in business should realise that profit is a prime motive - no profit, no business. People who cannot see that are unreasonably idealistic or have only known sheltered and non-comptetive employment.
Neither can I see anything wrong in the fact that they wish to protect their market and their copyrights. They would be foolish if they did not. Whether they can succeed in that is another matter altogether - it may be they have little possibility to stop people from disposing of their own property to the owner's best advantage - but that is another matter.
My experience with S&N is limited and entirely satisfactory - I have two of their major products.
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CAN I JUST ASK, WHY ARE THE CD'S FROM S&N NOT ALLOWED TO BE SOLD ON?
YOU ARE ENTITLED TO BUY A MUSIC CD AND THEN RESELL IT.
I AM VERY CURIOUS.
NICKY
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:) :)
"Their" market, "their" copyrights ? Rightfully, this information belongs to us through our ancestors, and as I said, if it had been in the Public Domain where it belonged, these companies would have had to look elsewhere to make money.
As a matter of interest, I know all about business, when I was widowed very young, I successfully ran one, whilst looking after a home and two small children.
>:( >:(
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I'M WITH YOU MOBO, HOW CAN THIS COMPANY COPYRIGHT THIS INFORMATION WHEN OTHER COMPANIES HAVE IT TOO?
NICKY
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The company are NOT copyrighting the information .... they are copyrighting their version of the CD's.
They are not trying to stop access to the information on a general basis simply trying to protect the product they have created.
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ok falkryn, so how do they copyright their version?
nicky
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The point I was trying to make earlier was with regard to the "strong arm" tactics of this company in dealing with people they deem to have broken their terms & conditions.
Ebay has a policy of trying to stop illegal activity on their site. If S&N has a problem with people selling it's goods in an unacceptable fashion on the Ebay site.....why do they not liase directly with Ebay and find a solution? S&N need to be very careful with the "name & shame" list on their own website, they could easily find themselves on the receiving end of a solicitor's letter if they make the slightest error in the information they publish.
I personally have never bought a census CD set, the cost has always put me off.....if I only want to check half a dozen addresses, spending £40 is an expensive way to do it.
I appreciate that these companies are providing "easy" access to information for a good number of researchers who would otherwise find it difficult and that their business would not exist if there wasn't a demand for what they sold. As Forester commented, maybe S&N have missed a marketing opportunity here, we'll wait and see! I'd also be interested to know if S&N staff were aware that their jobs were under threat.... they obviously will when they read this thread? Nice way to find out :(
With regards to the ownership/copyright issue, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all census details were "Crown copyright".....doesn't this mean that the government profit from selling a licence to reproduce the information?
Maybe, as in an earlier thread, we should all volunteer just half an hour of our time each week to http://freeukgen.rootsweb.com/
If all 10,000+ Rootschatters did 30 mins per week, that's approximately 5000 hours a week of transcribed data that will be available for free to anyone and everyone! Eventually we'd get to the point where we don't need to concern ourselves with type of discussion ;D
tabitha (I don't always moan...honest!! ;))
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:) :) :)
"How many small fee paying resources would exist if some one came along and started selling the work that their volunteers had gathered ..."
Falkyrn, that's my whole point ! If the information were available through small-fee paying resources, what would be the point of anyone trying to sell it ?? No profit = no interest.
Thats quite right. The best resource I have found so far has been the members of this community. Everyone gives generously here because its the nature of this hobby. Sharing freely and helping others is a big part of the pleasure and reward.The amount of work members have put into transcribing the census so that everyone can have a free resource is phenominal.
I have no doubt that S & N are producing excellent quality products it is clearly part of their ethic but equally true is the fact that they have seized the opportunity to make a sucessful business with presumably good profits off the back of our hobby/interest. Nothing wrong with business . I'm all for entreprenurialship, (I am a company Director myself.) but my view is that sending threats of legal action to ebay sellers, customers and others are more concerned with preserving profits than serving our hobby and is in my view an error of judgement
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Oh dear! The act of selling goods does not guarantee profit. The difference bewteen cost and selling prices is mark-up. That creates gross profit. Then come expenses and, if you are lucky, some nett profit remains. All business is a great risk.How one can judge it must be "Millions" escapes me.
"Their market" is the one that they have, by their own efforts, created.
"Their copyright" is created by the simple act of publication.
What rights do they have to assemble and publish matter in the public domain? Exactly the same as you would have. To feel that they should not acquire proprietary rights because it is "public knowledge" is like saying that nobody can copyright a book because all of the words are public knowledge or that a song may not be protected because all of the notes are common knowledge.
The culture of begrudging people their success is over done nowadays. :)
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The culture of begrudging people their success is over done nowadays. :)
Um....I'm not sure I agree with that, if honest hard graft has created success good luck to them I say! :)
I do however thing our litigation culture is over done nowadays. :)
tabitha
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My two cents
I am very grateful to S&N and other companies who have taken the time and trouble to copy and format the census cds and make it possible for me to view them at home. If they have created a successful business in the process...good luck to them.
I am also very grateful to the people who own the cds and are willing to share the information contained in them with me. As I do myself. It would be very difficult to access this information easily without the sharing that goes on here and on other genealogy boards.
However, if I own a business and someone is taking my product ie: the format and end result (cd) and selling it in violation of my license then I would be obliged to take action.
Those who say that genealogy is a hobby and therefore should be "free" should carry on as though it were free.....go to the library or family history center. The information is already in the Public Domain.
I have several hobbies......none free....or so my husband tells me!
End of speech
Indi
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I think hackstaple you are misunderstanding the point of most of the discussion here. No one is begrudging the company their profits I'm sure.
The point I initially raised was the somewhat questionable manner in which said company had chosen to prevent their customers selling on their purchases in order to presumably both fund further purchases for their research and to offset their considerable outlay for a product which has served its purpose. The majority of posters seem to agree that the company has probably shot itself in the foot over this. Afterall `you don't bite the hand that feeds you ' or so the saying goes.
I feel sure you would find it disagreeable if car manufacturers suddenly turned round and threatened you not to sell your second hand car !afterall they do own the design and engineering copyrights.
quote`To feel that they should not acquire proprietary rights because it is "public knowledge" is like saying that nobody can copyright a book because all of the words are public knowledge 'end quote
I fail to see how this rather odd analogy has any relevance here. ??? This company is not the originator of any original material they are copying it
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They really should consider breaking up those sets by Parish or region or something and offer them that way as well. I think it would be far more effect then trying to make people not resell their product.
I don't think there is any copyright law that would prevent someone from breaking up a CD set and selling the parts on eBay. Dragging someone's name through the dirt without proper cause can also come back to bite you. But somehow I'm sure S&N have done their homework and know what they're talking about.
If someone were copying the disks and reselling, of even copying parts of the transcriptions (cut and paste) and re-selling, that's breaking copyright law. The raw data is public domain, but their presentation of that data is copyrighted. And just because someone puts something in the "public domain" doesn't mean it may not also be protected by copyright laws.
But I think the best win-win advice for S&N is to start offering single units instead of what I consider to be ridiculously large (and therefore expensive) CD sets.
jeff
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ok falkryn, so how do they copyright their version?
nicky
If you use a camera to take a photograph you have created a new object under most conditions you then have copyright in that photograph.
Book a photographer for a wedding ... he/she has copyright in the photographs
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Earley - I doubt if I have misunderstood anything written here. I have acquired a sneaky suspicion that you or someone close to you has perhaps been reselling individual CD's ? It would be hard to get so hot under the collar about something if you were a disinterested observer.
But, and I will not write on this thread again, you are entirely wrong about copyright. There are books published about antique maps [a topic about which I am well informed]. The maps can all be found on free view in the British Museum or other museums with whose permission photos have been taken. The originator of the work has undeniable and absolute copyright to his work.
Lastly, S&N obviously does not believe that they are biting the hand that feeds them. The hands they are trying to bite are those who are trying to snatch bread from their mouth. I did question whether they would be successful.
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Earley - . I have acquired a sneaky suspicion that you or someone close to you has perhaps been reselling individual CD's ? It would be hard to get so hot under the collar about something if you were a disinterested observer.
I did question whether they would be successful.
On the contrary hackstaple. You are the one that is clearly getting hot under the collar as you put it.
I have never purchased any of this companies genaeology products or for that matter any other companies products, where you clearly have a stated interest here as an existing customer of the company.
I posted this because I was interested to see a disscussion on what could be construed as questionable business ethics, ie issuing written threats etc. You seem to have `gone off on a bit of a tangent' from the main issue it seems to me.
Regarding my comment about your inappropriate analogy you have just supplied another. maps are one of the very few exceptions in written matter which have clearly stated and well known copyright rules about reproduction and resale.
but you wern't talking about maps you were talking about books were you not. ::)
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Now Now Boys and Girls - don't get too personal ;D ;D ;D
....Keith
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yes soooorry everyone ::) no offence intended hackstaple.
Thanks for the timely intervention Keith. ;D
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Cool :)
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Just in case some of you didn't know Archive CD Books are selling their new census sets as complete sets and individually.
Steve.
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Rather enjoyed this 'discussion' at least its nice to know I am not the only one who gets 'hot under the collar' about stuff. I think it comes with age!
Doesnt it all really come down to someone making money out of somebody elses idea and hard work without investing any of their own time and money?
Now, dont get steamy if you dont agree how somebody else runs ther own affairs and business
Or I'll come round and slap your legs
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Hi ,
just found this discussion. I find it a bit funny that Sandn is a member of the company under discussion. Rather than fuel the fire of discussion, I would use my 40 years of marketing management to ask why not inquire what your market needs. It is obvious that a great many people cannot afford a whole cd set and would make a huge market for some entrepreneur willing to find a way to sell individual or may be 4 packs etc..
I feel that producing 40 or 50 cd sets is begging others to use them to make profit from pay per search profits or breaking up sets.
Just a comment, I dont want to offend anyone, Business only exists from profits made from efforts they have taken, they are right to be upset when others make their profits and undermine their busienss. On the other hand we can wonder why a business would rather fight their market rather than produce a more convenient product.
Ted
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hear hear ! ;D
you have clearly hit the nail on the head tallted. why not provide what your market needs gracefully and with commitment ?! they would doubless sell more and earn more market share for working with their customers I should have thought.
Time will tell no doubt
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Ok Im going to have my little say.
From a business side S&N SHOULD sell the cd's separately as I paid $149.00AU for my 1901 London cd set which works out to be approx. $3.31AU each cd which is cheap when you work it out that way. There is a huge market out there for people who only need one area not the whole County so you'd think S&N would have the 'brains' to do that
For people who only need a certain area, to me paying a large amount initially I can't justify that as most of the cd's that person would not even use.
I'd like to get just a certain area in Wiltshire so Im not going to fork out the $149.00 to get the whole set, I don't need them all.
As for S&N sending people on eBay emails of threatening suggestions that to me is bad business. Once I finish with my cd sets I'll sell them to and I don't care what S&N say. I paid for them and I'll sell them, not for the original amount of course
Like Earley stated beforehand you can resell music cd's and others things like DVD's and videos so I don't see the problem that S&N have.
If they sent me an email threatening me I'd soon tell them to stick it up their bum. No company has any right what so ever to send threatening emails to people.
Im glad that CD Archive Books have used their brain and doing both for all to be able to afford the census.
Shanko
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with you 100% shanko these companies make enough out geneology there prices are obscene.
and they are not satisfied with taking your money
they want to dictate to you as well
as for selling them seperate they prefer to have you over a barrell buy them all or go without
jake
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Hi
Can someone send me a link to SandN so i can read for myself what all the fuss is about :o
Joe
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http://www.genealogysupplies.com/
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Hi All
I have no wish to take sides in this argument one way or another,but the way that CD Archive books or S & N market there products is for them to decide, sales dictate profits if they are not happy I am sure they will alter it.
As with anything we purchase these days if there is a sales or licence agreement with the product it should be read before the purchase is made, and once having bought the product you then proceed to breach the licence why would you be suprised if the company follows through on the threats made in the agreement !!!
peterbennett
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Thanks Falkryn for the link
Joe
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As with anything we purchase these days if there is a sales or licence agreement with the product it should be read before the purchase is made, and once having bought the product you then proceed to breach the licence why would you be suprised if the company follows through on the threats made in the agreement !!!
peterbennett
Trouble is, the other day I decided to try and find out what the deal was. I placed a census set in my shopping basket and proceeded to check out. I got right to the point where you are invited to input card details and press the "make payment" button without seeing any kind of license agreemnt. This agreement is apparently attached to the actual product.
Another site I use ( a Family History society) has made it impossible to purchase online without clearly ticking the box saying you agree to terms and conditions. Perhaps S&N should look at a similar scenario?
Have to make it clear I have no problems with the company and totally agree that splitting sets for re-sale, copying and selling lookups are all highly unethical practices :)
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I must "declare an interest" in this subject first:
We show a S&N free advert (GenealogySupplies) on RootsChat (not that they asked for it) - they very kindly gave £50 voucher to our thousandth member - (read it here (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,2169.0.html)). They were also going to help us with a contest we were going to run at Christmas with some brilliant and very generous prizes (unfortunately I didn't get my act together in time to run the competition). They were more than happy to help RootsChat, and did not demand any publicity for their company in return - lovely people. :-* Anyhow back to my post:
I have to agree with Nigel at S&N,
I used to work for a software house some years back, for a very specialised piece of software for naturally a very defined market. They went to great pains and to great lengths to protect their software from piracy and to police the license agreement that our customers had to agree to. If they hadn't had done, then we would have been job losses, and ultimately the business would not have been viable, then the software would be gone forever.
This is similar to S&N. A very specific market.
Their license agreement specifies that split packs cannot be sold on. It's the same if you buy a "multipack" of say Cola from a supermarket - it will say on each can, "Part of Multipack - not for resale". If then, let's say they were tipped off that a take away was then re-selling these cans individually to customers then you'd expect the Cola company to take action, and for Trading Standards to be involved.
The person that is doing the wrong in the person who has ignored the "Part of Multipack - not for resale", not the company who has created the "multipack agreement".
S&N offer a huge resource to the family historian, and long may they continue. They are getting damaged by the minority making easy profit from their work, and ultimately we risk losing the service they provide.
Trystan :)
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This might be a dumb question...but I'm going to ask anyway!! :D
Re S&N CD sets .......because of the terms & conditions it is illegal to split and re-sell them, so... how would you stand if they were exchanged for no profit? ???
So, if I owned a full set of CDs of which say 8 CDs were useless in my research, could I "give" a fellow researcher those 8 CDs in exchange for maybe another 8 CDs or a book etc?
tabitha
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Hi Tab,
I believe that to exchange a product for money or other goods can be construed as "selling" the product.
Though I believe that if you purchase a product you own it outright to do with it as you please. I am not a lawyer, but in Canada you either lease the rights to use or own a product, if you own it you can do as you please with it. Now I must make the point that if you "SIGN" an agreement you are bound by it, I am not sure accepting an agreement after you have purchased a product a signed contract.
It certainly would be worth a test case if someone could afford it.
I personally feel that if a company sells a product made up of individual parts that are resellable then they are accepting the market risk. This situation will go on with one side bluffing the other until a lot of money is spent in courts. Sand N should remember that the music world did not come out of its law suits very well.
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None of the UK companies involved in publishing census on CD are making millions!
>:(
The money we make is ploughed into indexing and further microfilm.
Whoever provides the information, be it government, individuals, societies or companies they will want to recover the costs involved.
Anyone can publish the census, the process is simple enough.
What I did was to cash in an endowment that should have repaid the mortgage and use that to buy a £40,000 film scanner. I set this up in my garage and ordered the 1891 microfilm for London. The CD pressing plant then required £60,000 equity stake against my home before they would press the CDs. You will also need a licence from The National Archives.
This was a high risk venture that is open to anyone brave or stupid enough to make.
If anyone wants to make money I would suggest putting corporate microfilm records onto CD is more lucrative.
If you think the records should all be free why not put your house on the line and invest all your time and money into publishing the census but just not charge for the CDs. ;)
More realistically use your energy to campaign to the government or join one of the free transcription projects.
Nigel (S&N)
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RootsChat appreciates the immense contribution that S&N makes to producing CD census sets.
In order for further census sets to be produced they need to be able to judge that they will be able to pay for microfilm, publishing and labour to do so. Their costing is based on the sales of complete sets to accomplish this.
Individuals splitting down CD sets (which is against the license agreement) are therefore making quick profit, but for the rest of us it could mean that a CD set for a particular census year or area that you are waiting for may not be produced as a result.
S&N naturally have a right to try and do something to protect their products in the same way as any other company.
If you find anybody re-selling S&N products by breaking up sets then you are able to report it on their website using the following link:
http://www.genealogysupplies.com/HallofShame.htm
You may also wish to support S&N Genealogy by visiting their site, and buying their products (there's a free plug for you Nigel ;) )
http://www.genealogysupplies.com
http://www.bmdindex.co.uk (A whole year's subscription for the price of a music CD)
http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/
This thread has created interesting debate, and we've let it run for a reasonable while so that a number of people can give their view. We do feel though that this topic is best locked to be fair.
We apologise if you did not have a chance to have your say.