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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: nessieinspain on Thursday 09 October 08 17:06 BST (UK)

Title: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Thursday 09 October 08 17:06 BST (UK)
Hello all,

Would anyone be able to look up a death in Falkirk for me?

I am looking, and have been for ages for the death of James Colvin, Merchant in Calcutta born c.1778. Haddingtonshire. I have him living in Falkirk in 1818 when his daughter Mary/Maria Colvin married a Thomas Gibb but after that I lose all trace.

I have been stuck on James for AGES so any help would be greatly appreciated


Nessie in Spain
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: daval57 on Thursday 09 October 08 17:31 BST (UK)
Hi Nessie,

Welcome to RC.

The problem you might have is if he died before 1855.  In that case you will have to rely on any MI's that are available.

Having said that, there is one death on SP which might be relevant.  You can view a copy of it online at SP ( http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ )
You'll need to register and minimum purchase is 30 credits (6GBP).  It'll cost you 5 credits (1 GBP) to ..

1863   COLVIN   JAMES   81   ST GEORGE   EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN   GROS   685/01 0962

Dave
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Thursday 09 October 08 17:53 BST (UK)
Thanks Daval,


Looks like you may have found him!!

Problem is I live in Spain & have already spent a fortune on Scotlands people.  Hubby recently bought me ancestry subscription & has banned me from spending anymore money on (dead people!)  He doesn't understand!  If nobody can help I will just have to sit on it until November when I can put some more money into the British account  :-[


Emma in Spain, so close yet so far........
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: daval57 on Thursday 09 October 08 18:30 BST (UK)
Register with www.ancestralscotland.com
You'll get a message with a voucher code which will give you 10 free credits for SP, not much but enough for you to get this death record.

Let me know how you get on.

Dave
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Thursday 09 October 08 19:40 BST (UK)
Grrrrrrr  >:( signed on and tried for the

1863   COLVIN   JAMES   81   ST GEORGE   EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN   GROS   685/01 0962

But it doesn't look like him as the above died a Pauper and most Merchants in Calcutta were wealthy Nabobs!

Sure I saw a death in Falkirk but can't find it again!!!

Thanks for trying


Emma in Spain
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: daval57 on Thursday 09 October 08 19:50 BST (UK)
Perhaps it wasn't a death record as such, but a MI in Falkirk?
Maybe a new post asking for Stirlingshire MI lookup will get you something?

I've sent a message to a friend who has some MI's for Stirlingshire.  Maybe she can help.

Dave
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 19:54 BST (UK)
Hi Nessie

How sure are you on his date of birth?

I notice on the 1851 that Maria was 53 - b.c. 1798. Which would mean that he was 20 when she was born according to your dates - not rare but maybe he was born earlier.

I've checked the wills on SP but nothing there and if he was a merchant, one would have expected something.

Have you checked for Maria's death. This would give her mother (and James's wife)'s name which might help.

No sign of James on the 1851.

Regards


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Thursday 09 October 08 19:59 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget

I have been searching - unsuccessfully for the death of James Colvin known to be alive & well in Falkirk in 1818 date of birth c.1778 (age pure guess) Merchant in Calcutta.

All I know is that he was the father of Mary Colvin born Calcutta c.1798.
Mary Colvin married Thomas Gibb in Falkirk in 1818.

I know all about Mary Colvin from 1818 but would appreciate some help finding her fathers or her mothers details.

I believe Mary died between 1861 - 1871 as that is when she dissapears off the census but I don't know where? last known adress 3 Meadows, Newington, Edinburgh 1862 death cert of Hubby.. If I could even find her death then I could order the cert which should have more info. I have her husbands death info 1862.

This one is keeping me awake at nights!!

Emma in Spain
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 20:19 BST (UK)
Hi Nessie

I hope you don't mind a few questions  :)

How did you find that he was a merchant in Calcutta b. Haddingtonshire (East Lothian).

Do you have any proof that he came back to Scotland?

What did it say in Mary/Maria's marriage entry?

What were Mary/Maria's and Thomas's  children in birth order?


I'll see what I can find.


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 20:22 BST (UK)
I've just looked at Mary's marriage entry to Thomas Gibb in 1818 - no reference to James there  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 20:29 BST (UK)
Just answering one of my own questions  ;D

Children to Thomas and Mary/Maria from the IGI:

1819 Margaret
1821 Andrew
1825 Thomas
1826 Mary
1828 Helen
1829 Christina
1834 Eliza Colvin
1836 George
1838 Catherine Ann

All St Cuthbert's Edinburgh

Are there any others that I've missed? I'm trying to build a profile of the family to see if there are any clues to James and Mary/Maria's mother


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Thursday 09 October 08 20:40 BST (UK)
Sorry Gadget but I have the original OPR cert and it reads Mary Colvin daughter of James Colvin esq residing at Falkirk. I can't copy & paste it here for some reason.

I have spent ages on this one and try to get every cert I can.  If not it's just a tree of names.

Thanks for trying

I SHALL NOT GIVE UP !!!!
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 20:47 BST (UK)
This is the entry from the Falkirk OPRs - marriage entry - removed now Nessie has seen it

Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: daval57 on Thursday 09 October 08 21:04 BST (UK)
I have the original OPR cert and it reads Mary Colvin daughter of James Colvin esq residing at Falkirk. I can't copy & paste it here for some reason.

Emma, it's not a case of copying and pasting on RC  File must be smaller than 500kb.
See this page which shows you how to attach an image.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/04hi/
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 21:09 BST (UK)
Hi Nessie

The entry that you've sent me is the Banns entry - obviously it was the marriage that SP put up. What is ambiguous on the entry that you sent is this:

...Miss Mary Colvin daughter of James Covin Esq at Calcutta, residing at Falkirk

This is tricky because it seems to sugest that James might still be in Calcutta and it is only Mary who was residing in Falkirk  :-\


I'm wondering whether she had returned to Scotland but her father was still in Calcutta. I'll check deaths overseas for him. There might be something.


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 21:52 BST (UK)
Checked the available online Consular deaths - nothing for James  :(


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Piglet01 on Thursday 09 October 08 21:53 BST (UK)
Gadget,

Have a look at this link:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QS7FmiBwt-QC&pg=PA430&lpg=PA430&dq=James+Colvin+Calcutta&source=web&ots=C733Zg-a3U&sig=yV0S9X1K1loW69aQR1_FkKcJi9I&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

Google books seem to have several references to Colvins in Calcutta.  Are they the same family?


See also this link -:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Genealogy-2028/2008/8/Illustrious-Colvin-Family.htm
Regards,   Steve   :O)
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 22:10 BST (UK)
Well spotted Steve - I've had my head in wills and OPRs and Census info.  It looks as if the Auckland Colvin was the son of a brother of Mary/Maria but the Manchester info is also interesting.

I could find no will for James Colvin on SP. I've not tried the Nat Archives.

It might be worth Nessie searching for a death in England. However, it might well have been in India.

I know evey little about the Scots in India, so maybe specialist  Indian sources/experts is the way for Nessie to go.


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 22:23 BST (UK)
Nessie

The National Archives site has the will of James Colvin Manchester Street, Middlesex in 1847. You could download it from there for £3.50.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=111751&queryType=1&resultcount=1

It looks possible given the link with Manchester Street on the 1841 that Steve found.


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: apanderson on Thursday 09 October 08 22:24 BST (UK)
Hi Nessie,

Dave directed me to this thread as he knows I have a copy of the pre-1855 MI Books for both East and West Stirlingshire.

Unfortunately there are no Colvins listed in any of the Falkirk Churchyards but there are, however, quite a collection of them buried in Dunipace Old Churchyard which is on the outskirts of Falkirk but within Falkirk district.

One of these Colvins, an Elizabeth Colvin, married James Allan and their daughter Elizabeth Allan died in India in 1808 aged 19. (Elizabeth Allan, nee Colvin was the daughter of Alexander Colvin)

There is a relationship between this family and the Spottiswood(e) family (who owned the Estates of Dunipace from around 1772 and also had dealings with the East India Company from around 1803), but I'm not sure what that relationship was. The estate was inherited eventually in 1880 by a Elizabeth Spottiswood(e) who married a John Harvie-Brown.)

Anyway, I'm not trying to give you a lecture on local history!  ;D

The Colvins buried in Dunipace Old Churchyard are as follows:

1. James Allan & Elizabeth Colvin (*date on stone 1791)

2. Samuel Colvin, John Colvin, Alexander Colvin (*date on stone 1791)

3. George Colvin died 24.05.1798 age 38, Margaret Renny (presumably his wife) died 19.08.1838 age 79

4. Grizzel Prop died 1807, for many years servant in Colvin Family, Denovan Bleachfield

*These dates can indicate the year the lair/plot was purchased, the year of death of a child or the year of death of one of those mentioned

From No. 4, I think we can presume that the Colvin Family were the owners of Denovan Bleachfield which was close by and that possibly a connection to India for dyes etc.

From the 'Lands and Lairds of Dunipace Parishes, by John C, Gibson, it's stated that also part of this Colvin Family was a Sidney Colvin, a well known author and art critic.

Anne
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 October 08 22:27 BST (UK)
Hi Anne  :)

I think the James died in London or India rather than Stirling (see above) .  Also the links that Steve has put up are worth reading before any conclusions are reached.

The George Colvin looks very interesting, given the naming of one of Mary's children.


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Friday 10 October 08 10:45 BST (UK)
Thank you all for your help

The Illustrious Colvin family on all experts was me posting a request!  I know all about THE Colvin Family in Calcutta. Colvin, Barratt & Co.

I have tried all of the british families in India sites. The Glasgow library, which has a link to the Edinburgh library.The Bengal obituaries. The Edinburgh Archives. Genes Reunited just about everything you can think of but I am stuck stuck stuck on this blooming james.  The James Colvin in middlesex was THE james Colvin living with benjamin colvin- no relation that I can find.

I have tried searching for Mary Colvin Gibbs death but can't find it!  Got a couple of possibles between 1861+ 1871  in Edinburgh but can't be sure!!

I believe Mary died between 1861 - 1871 as that is when she dissapears off the census but I don't know where? last known adress 3 Meadows, Newington, Edinburgh 1862 death cert of Hubby.. If I could even find her death then I could order the cert which should have more info. I have her husbands death info 1862.


Thank you so much for your help.  I wish I was back in Inverness just now as it would make this quest a lot easier!!

Thanks again

Nessie in a very very wet Spain!
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 October 08 11:39 BST (UK)
Hi Nessie  :)

I've been looking at the joint will of Thomas Gibb and Mary Colvin. It was originally made and signed by them jointly in 1862 and then signed singly by Mary in 1864. This narrows down her death date. In the 1871 her daughter Margaret C Gibb is running a boarding house at 6 Hope Park Square, Edinburgh. There is no sign of Mary(as you say)  or a death - I've checked using various wildcards. Could she have gone to England/India/somewhere else  :-\ :-\ :-\

I'm also having probs locating the death of Thomas Gibb - if you have the cert could you give details please.

It's all very odd. They seem to disappear completely.


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 October 08 11:47 BST (UK)
The will mentions their son Andrew Gibb and son in law Charles Andrew Martin. Have you followed these people up to see if there are any clues there?

She must be out there somewhere  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 October 08 12:28 BST (UK)
Summary for others:

Mary Colvin/Colven m Thomas Gibb on  19 October 1818 at Falkirk.  Proclamation of Banns, Falkirk , 17  Oct 1818 says Mary is daughter of James Colvin/Colven, Esq. at Calcutta, Mary residing at Falkirk. (OPRs)

Mary and Thomas Gibb have the following children St Cuthberts, Edinburgh (IGI):

1819 Margaret
1821 Andrew
circa 1824 Euphemia (from Censuses)
1825 Thomas
1826 Mary
1828 Helen
1829 Christina
1834 Eliza Colvin
1836 George
1838 Catherine Ann

1841
St Cuthberts, Edinburgh:
Thos Gibb, 44, Comm agent, b. Scotland
Mary, 40, b. Scotland
Margret, 20
Euphemia, 17
Mary, 15
Thomas, 10
Cath Ann, 3
Charlotte Petree, 20, Female Servant, b. Midlothian

all children b. Midlothian

1851
4 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh St Cuthbert

Thomas Gibb, 56, comm agent (tea and grocery0, b. Dunbar
Maria, 53, b. Calcutta, India - B.S
Margaret, 31
Euphemia, 27
Christina, 21
Eliza, 16
Catherine Ann, 12
Isabella Gregory, 25, house servant, b. Berwickshire
Mary, McDougald, 19
all b. Edinburgh except where stated otherwise

1861

108 Lauriston Place, Edinburgh St Cuthbert

Thomas Gibb, 65, commission Agenetn & Merchant - hams, spicery and F, employing 2 men, b.Dunbar
Mary C, 63, b. Calcutta, India
Margaret C, 41, b. Edinburgh
Catherine A, 22, b. Edinburgh
Mary C Murray, niece, 6, scholar (privately at home), B. New York, Am, B S
Euphemia S Murray, niece, 5, scholar (privately at home), B. New York, Am, B S
  Interesting
Margaret Black, 28, domestic servant, b. Leuchars, Fife
Agnes Fraser, 26, Domestic, b. Edinburgh

Will - 1 July 1862 - jointly signed by Thomas Gibb, commision agent rsiding Meadow Place, Edinburgh and Mary Gibb, daughter of James Colvin, merchant in Calcutta   Subsequently signed by Mary Gibb alone on 26th February 1864. Will mentions son Andrew Gibb and son in law Charles Andrew Martin.

Added - Thomas Gibb died shortly afterwards.

Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: hume on Saturday 11 October 08 14:16 BST (UK)
Just trying to search for Thomas or Mary's deaths - no luck. Found some clues though, might help someone.

Charles A. Martin was husband of Eliza Colvin Gibb, b. 1834. She died 1868. Thomas deceased by then, her mother was not.

Margaret Colvin Gibb (b. 1819) died 1885 in Edinburgh. Both parents deceased by that year.

hume24 :)
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: hume on Saturday 11 October 08 14:24 BST (UK)
:D Found Thomas'.

Thomas died July 6th 1864 1862 :-[ at 3 Meadow Pl., Edinburgh. Parents Andrew Gibb, merchant (dec.) and Euphemia Gibb m.s. Black (also dec.)

hume24
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 11 October 08 14:27 BST (UK)
Hi hume  :)


Thomas Gibb died 6 July 1862, shortly after signing the will . No sign of Mary so far even with the broadest searches.`Steve, Nessie and I have all looked.

Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: hume on Saturday 11 October 08 14:36 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,

Sorry, got the date wrong. Have adjusted now. :)

hume24
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 11 October 08 14:45 BST (UK)
Found a very interesting name among the deaths while searching for Mary/Maria -

Marie Euphrasie  Calvert de Fond  Her m.s. was <something> de Fondaumiere

It wasn't our Maria/Mary  ::)

I was searching on C*lv* and M


Gadget  ;D
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: hume on Saturday 11 October 08 14:48 BST (UK)
Has anyone followed this marriage up? Found it on the IGI.

James Colvin to Maria Jackson, 26th April 1802 in Calcutta

I thought it looked interesting given the Maria/Colvin combination.

hume24
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 11 October 08 14:49 BST (UK)
I believe it's been followed up by Nessie - it's also referenced on one of the links that Steve put up.
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: hume on Saturday 11 October 08 14:55 BST (UK)
::)

Note to self: read more before posting.

Will go and have a look; thanks Gadget.

hume24
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 11 October 08 17:46 BST (UK)
See also this thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,333662.0.html

I'm in danger of getting confused about which one I should be answering on  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Sunday 12 October 08 21:27 BST (UK)
Best name on my tree is:

Bedelia Veronica Saultry!! :P 

& NO I am NOT looking for any information about her as she is very very distant and married into the family.

You have to admit it is a TOPPER of a name lol

Emma in Spain
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Freckle on Sunday 26 October 08 22:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Emma, I found this site very helpful for India.
http://indiafamily.bl.uk It covers alot of births, deaths and marriages Also Biographies.

Cheers
Freckle
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: nessieinspain on Monday 27 October 08 07:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks for trying Freckle.........

searched everywhere, have even been in touch with the BL

no luck  :-[

Emma Despondant in Spain
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: alisonjkilpatrick on Friday 21 September 18 00:48 BST (UK)
I know this is an old thread. However, a biographical profile has been worked up for James Colvin, Esq. (1768–1847), and posted to WikiTree, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Colvin-1550
cheers, Alison
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 21 September 18 15:58 BST (UK)
Thank you! I keep coming across Colvins while researching the Binnys of Forfar and India, and your WikiTree has answered several questions :)
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: alisonjkilpatrick on Tuesday 09 October 18 00:44 BST (UK)
Hello, again.
I see that the original poster, Emma from Spain, was asking why Maria would be living in Falkirk, and where was her father, James Colvin, throughout the course of her living there and getting married and then going off to Edinburgh with Thomas Gibb.
If you look at the profile for Mary Gibb, née Colvin, on WikiTree:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Colvin-1639,
her year of birth, 1798, predates her father's marriage to Maria Jackson by four years. Mary appears to have been a natural daughter of James Colvin (1768–1847). There was another natural daughter, Helen, born in 1794, but unlike Helen, for whom there was a baptism record (in the India Office records online at FindMyPast), a similar record has not been found for Mary. In fact, all we have to go by is Mary's repeated assertion (upon marriage, and in her will) that she was the daughter of James Colvin, merchant, of Calcutta. Even so, I believe it is safe to accept this claim.
As to why she was living in Falkirk at the time of her marriage to Thomas Gibb in Falkirk: I would hazard the guess that James Colvin sent his daughter home to Scotland sometime before his 1802 marriage to Maria Jackson. James' brother, George Colvin, had died in Dunipace in 1798, leaving his wife, Margaret Renny. Margaret died at Falkirk in 1838 (though her body was buried at Dunipace), suggesting that she was living in Falkirk after the death of her husband. In fact, Margaret was born at Falkirk; her late father, John Renny (d.1773), had been the bailie of the town. In any event, it seems plausible in the circumstances that a widow, whose husband had had financial difficulties in business and did not leave a will, could use the income that would accompany guardianship of a child (her niece) of a wealthy East India merchant.
Just my 2¢.
cheers,
Alison
Title: Re: Death search needed please
Post by: SaltyRaven on Monday 28 September 20 13:34 BST (UK)
Hello all,

Would anyone be able to look up a death in Falkirk for me?

I am looking, and have been for ages for the death of James Colvin, Merchant in Calcutta born c.1778. Haddingtonshire. I have him living in Falkirk in 1818 when his daughter Mary/Maria Colvin married a Thomas Gibb but after that I lose all trace.

I have been stuck on James for AGES so any help would be greatly appreciated


Nessie in Spain

So I was taking pictures of some moody graves today and came across the Tombstone of Grizzel Prop and thought it a curious name. Came across this thread and decided to drop today's pictures in here just in case they are of use. The Colvin's from what I can tell are buried in the old almost exclusive part of the cemetery, so they obviously had money.

Excuse the black and white photographs ( it's my style ) But for what it's worth Old Grizzel's stone looks to have been visited in the last year or so given the decay of the roses.

I don't intend in hanging around here, you know, things to do and places to be but I'll check in every now and then.

Laters.

(https://img.techpowerup.org/200928/old-grave-forum.jpg)

(https://img.techpowerup.org/200928/sqr-forum.jpg)

(https://img.techpowerup.org/200928/servant-forum.jpg)