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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Gene-ee-us on Monday 20 October 08 21:55 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I would be grateful if someone could tell me whether my James Coubrough, "No. 8 Coy, 5th Batn., R.A." was in the Royal Artillery, and where I might be able to find out more about his service. The unit name is from his son Mathew's baptism paper, dated 4 March 1854, at St. John, New Brunswick (Canada). Is there anyplace on-line where I could find out more about this unit and when it was in Canada (specifically Nova Scotia/New Brunswick)?
Thanks.
Gene-ee-us
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Yes, RA is the Royal Artillery. Coy = company, and Batn = Battalion.
The Army Lists of this period are very poor about giving details of location of RA units. There were probably 4 or 5 battalions in modern-day eastern Canada - Canada, Nova Scotia, Quebec, Upper Canada and Newfoundland according to the 1850 Army List. "Canada" may have been the HQ for the other four.
I would try google, or try www.firepower.org.uk, the website of the RA Museum.
Here is a link to researching in Kew - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
They are all original documents so you will have to visit Kew, or employ a researcher. If you do not find his papers (WO97) you will almost certainly find him in the Muster Books and Pay Lists (WO12), but searching these will be time-consuming. The two important Musters are those for his enlistment and his discharge, as they often record FH information, such as age, place of birth and occupation; or you at least find out where he enlisted.
The Musters tell you where each man was on the 1st of each month. So they are even better than his papers at giving location. They will give you the actual town/fort he was at. While his papers will just say Canada (etc).
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Thanks a lot. I had a look at both the sites you mentioned. I guess I will have to hire someone to go to look at Kew, as a visit there is out of the question for the forseeable future. I know he was out of the army by 1856 because he was working as an "under keeper" at the Northwest Arm Penitentiary at Halifax that spring, but I don't think he was in long enough to get a pension of any sort. I don't know when he joined, but he was only 25 in 1856.
Gene-ee-us
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How do you know he wasn't in long?
There is a James Coubrough in the 1861 cencus as being in the Artillery.
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Hello Margaretd777,
I don't really know how long he was in the army, but since he was only just turned 25 when he was listed as a prison guard in 1856 in Halifax, Nova Scotia, I assume hadn't been in more than about 10 years. He was definitely not in the army any more by 1861, when he was working on the lake boats on Lake Huron.
Where was the James living that you found in 1861? James is the second most common name in the Coubrough tribe, and there are several who might have been of an age to be in the army. Are you a Coubrough, or connected to one?
Happy hunting,
Geneeeus
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Hi Ken,
I guess I will have to hire someone to go to look at Kew, as a visit there is out of the question for the forseeable future.
Or you could ask if any kind, handsome chap on Rootschat might be at Kew early September?
though
searching these will be time-consuming.
is a little daunting.
Who knows though, eh?
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Hello StevieSteve,
Would some handsome helpful chap be going to Kew in September? And if he was, might he be willing to look up James Coubrough in the RA muster rolls? I know he was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, in Sept 1851, because he was married there Sept 23, and he was in St. John, New Brunswick, in Jan/Feb 1854 because his son Matthew was christened there. The last notice I had before that was the 1841 census, when he was 10, a tearer in a calico printing factory in Thornliebank, Renfrewshire.
Happy hunting,
Geneeeus
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Hello StevieSteve,
Would some handsome helpful chap be going to Kew in September?
Well, I don't know any of those but I am, so I'll have a try :)
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Thanks! That is very handsome and helpful of you. :)
The James I'm looking for was born 26 Jan 1831 in Thornliebank, Eastwood parish, Renfrew, Scotland. He was the eldest son of Matthew Coubrough and Jean Allan, and married Annie Macdonald in Halifax, Nova Scotia 21 Sept 1851 (not 23 Sept as I said before).
Happy hunting,
Geneeeus
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Doing a bit of preliminary work, I have 8th Coy, 5th Battallion stationed as
1846-47 Glasgow
1848 Fort Leith
1849-54 Canada ( though I have gaps at the moment between 1849- 1850)
1854 -55 passage from Canada
1855 Jersey
and then on to Gibraltar
which fits nicely into your timings
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Thanks for this. In Jim's day, Thornliebank was only about 3 miles or so from Glasgow, so it would be quite possible that a recruiter was in his neighbourhood. Perhaps he knew they would eventually be going to Canada, or some other foreign place, and looked upon it as a way to leave the calico factory? The dates you have so far, and the time he appears to have left the army might indicate such a scheme.
Thanks again.
Geneeeus
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Well, "time-consuming" was certainly accurate
Each item consists of the Pay Lists of about half a dozen battalions. Each contains 6 months of Payrolls and a copy that was sent back to London.
The paylists consist of an approx A3 sheet of card folded into 4 pages listing everybody's pay plus any deductions for sickness, ill discipline etc + details of what happened to deceased / deserters' effects
I'll list each batch I looked at in the next few posts
There's a daily rate of pay so all the months with 31 days etc have the same figure
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WO 10/2099 Halifax NS under command of Captain J McCoy
James Coubrough, Gunner & Driver 7th Class
Oct 1851 £ 1-19-4 3/4 Ordnance Works
Nov £ 1-18- 1 1/2
Dec
Jan 1852 Docked 1s 5 1/2 for sick between 17/1 - 21/1
Feb £ 1-16-10 1/4 Cook
Mar
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WO 10/2103 Halifax NS under command of Captain J McCoy
James Coubrough, Gunner & Driver 7th Class
Apr 1852 £ 1-18- 1 1/2 Cook
May £ 1-19- 4 3/4
Jun
Jul Ordnance Works
Aug
Sep
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WO 10/2163 St John, NB under command of Captain HA Smyth
James Coubrough, Gunner & Driver 6th Class
Oct 1853 £ 2-1-11 3/4
Nov £ 2-0- 7 1/2
Dec
Jan 1854
Feb £ 1-17-11
Mar
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WO 10/2166 St John, NB under command of Captain HA Smyth
James Coubrough, Gunner & Driver 6th Class
Apr 1854 £ 2-0- 7 1/2 Carteton Tower
May £ 2-1- 11 3/4 Carteton Tower
Jun Carteton Tower
Jul Carteton Tower
Aug Carteton Tower
Sep
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WO 10/2196 Battalion back at Woolwich
James Coubrough - transferred to 4 Company 10 Battalion from 1/10/1854
which is when time ran out
I'm perfectly happy to continue with this but looks like it could take several visits (I go once a month)
Steve
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3.5d per day was deducted while in hospital as food was provided.
Ken
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Thanks for all that, Steve! I had no idea that soldiers were recorded in such detail. I didn't know that their pay would be docked for the food they got in hospital - thanks Ken - but I suppose I should have known. Even now, the army tracks every penny handed over to soldiers, and is very concerned that you should never get a single cent more than your entitlement.
The fact that Grampa Jim was in St. John in January/February 1854 is probably a good indication that his son Matthew was born there, rather than in Halifax, as he appears to have thought. I appreciate all the information, Steve, and I would be delighted to have anything else you care to look up, but I don't want to presume upon your good nature. (If you do find anything else, perhaps a PM would be easier than multiple posts?)
Thanks again.
Myrna
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Just as a matter of interest, this salary works out to about 15.25 pence per day, which the Measuring Worth Web site (www.measuringworth.com) says had a purchasing power in 1853 roughly equivalent to £5.48 in 2014. Apparently common soldiers were not the best-paid people on the planet. Deducting 3.5d for hospital food would have been a big chunk of a day's wages.
Geneeeus
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Hi Myrna
Your logic isn't quite watertight re Matthew as we don't know whether his mother tagged along with James to New Brunswick. It'll be interesting to see where his new company was stationed
Further installments next month...
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the reminder to not make leaps of logic. Matt was baptized in St. John, and while he lived at home, censuses consistently reported his birth place as St. John. When he left home, the census began saying he was born in Halifax. But perhaps I still don't have a definitive answer. While Jim's wife and son were likely in St. John when the boy was baptized there, there was about 6 weeks between birth and baptism and I still don't know if his mother went there before or after he was born.
Anyway, I will be looking forward to the further installments, and I'll hold my whisht until then.
Myrna
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You have to be careful with these six monthly musters. They were often signed off several months after the period finished, and the location given is where the officer was at the time he signed it off. They could have travelled to several places since the last muster.
Overseas, wives are almost certainly accepted as being on the married establishment. So the army would be responsible for transporting them from station to station. It does not mean the husband was with them all the time. If there are local newspaper archives available they should tell you something about their movements.
He could have bought about 30 pints of beer a day with his pay at home, equivalent to about £90-100 today. These purchasing power sites are not accurate. A labourer could earn 18 to 24d a day compared to a basic of 13d for a soldier. The soldier gained because it they were paid 365 days a year, with clothing provided and a roof over their heads.
Ken