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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: DonL on Tuesday 21 October 08 04:47 BST (UK)
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According to the book Scandinavian Footprints in NZ , the 1873 Hovding voyage which arrived in Napier in 1st December 1873 had three crew members jump ship. One of these could be my great grandfather Franz Wilhelm Anderson.
I have been unable to locate a crew list or any information on the names of the deserters.
Any ideas where I can find this info - note the Papers Past Pages for this period for Hawkes Bay papers are not on line.
Regards
Don L
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Hello,
My Family came over from Grue, Hedmark, Norway on the 1973 voyage of the Hovding. May I suggest checking out Norwayheritage.com and The norsewood Cemetary Project.
http://www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz/ships/1873-hovding-passenger-list.php
http://www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz/ships/1873-hovding-passlist-only.php
Your ancestor could well have jumped ship, that particular voyage was one that would live on in the passengers and crews mind for all the wrong reason, THe Captain was often in dispute with his crew and passengers over food, medicine and treatment. After landing, a committee was formed and formal complaints against the caption were served to both the New zealand and Norwegian governments.
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Hello Meep_Meep,
Thank you for that information. However I have looked at that on many occasions but to no avail. It clearly spells out the passengers but no mention of the crew. The passengers were mainly from Norway - my great grandmother was from Norway but arrived here on the Arethusa in 1879 - her husband to be, Frans Wilhelm Anderson (from Sweden) was already here. I am trying to find how he arrived as it is rumoured that he had jumped ship. A book I had read indicated that several crew members from the Hovdings's 1873 voyage jumped ship at Napier. - So I am still looking.
Thanks
DonL
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Hi DonL
Did you ever get to the bottom of the crew list ?
My great grandfather was swedish and the family history was that he deserted in Napier off a ship with two other members of the crew and hid in the hills until a few days after the ship sailed at which point they gave themselves up. The story was that my great grandfather was a cabin boy aged around 13 when he deserted, his name was Henrietta Andersson which he anglicised to Henry Anderson, my great aunt said he was a stickler for returning mail misaddressed to the Anderson with 2 s's. Many years later when he needed to get a birth certificate it turned out he was older than he thought by some 5or 6 years so would have been a 19 or 20 yo crew member.
He married in Napier in 1880 so it's quite possible he was one on the Hovding crew deserters.
Cheers
Simon
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Hello Simon
I did not get to the bottom of it but suspect he was a crew member possibly on the Hovding.
When he left Sweden his birth name was Theodore Frans Bergstrom but in New Zealand he was know as William Francis Anderson - bit of a coincidence that we have an Anderson as you do.
It would be great to locate the crew list to set this search to bed.
Happy hunting
DonL
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Hi SimonJA
Do you have anything of him in Sweden. I can check in the Swedish Church Books to see if there is a mention of him jumping ship.
Ian
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Hello Ian...
I suspect he is the following although I may well be wrong...
Svenska In NZ
No.165
ANDERSON, Henriky/Henrik
b.15 Dec 1852 - Stockholm birth not traced
Arrived NZ in 1873
Naturalised 13 Aug 1884, Napier NZ
d. 6 Dec 1932, Napier NZ
Married with 5 children
Master Mariner Certificate (Home Trade)
Issued 16 Apr 1879
No parish mentioned sorry. Needle -> Haystack :-)
Although the naturalisation papers and Master's Certificate (no.5167) can both be viewed at Archives NZ I doubt they'd have any additional info. Happy to be proven wrong but I'm pretty sure the author would have mentioned it.
Nor is there anything as regards a birth parish in Henry ANDERSON's probate file.
Might need further info from SimonJA (death cert info, siblings) to narrow things down.
Quite impressive if six years after jumping ship he is a Master Mariner.... all assuming the above is the right man.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Beg and Ian
Thank you for the information and that does indeed seem to be my great grandfather.
I'm not sure the date of death is quite right as I have always believed he lived into his early 90's but it's quite possible I have that wrong, the Anderson / Andersson side of the family is the one that I have only recently started to research and the information I have is limited, the family history was never much talked about although I do have, but cannot find currently, some history from Henry's daughter about his siblings and place of birth. If I recall correctly his family came from a fishing village and while he went to New Zealand others went to Canada.
Henry did indeed become a master mariner and was captain of a number of ships sailing out of Napier for the Richardsons shipping line and he went on to become harbour master and a member of the Napier Harbour board.
Thank you for your help and comments
Kind regards
Simon
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I'm not sure the date of death is quite right
Hi Simon...
Welcome to Rootschat :)
This is the probate file I mentioned...
http://tinyurl.com/k2jbxcf (http://tinyurl.com/k2jbxcf)
The affidavit gives the date of death as 6 Oct 1932, not 6 Dec 1932 as quoted in the book Svenskarna I Nya Zeeland: The Swedes in New Zealand by Sten AMINOFF.
The affidavit is the correct date as it agrees with the recorded date of death on the BDM NZ Deaths website...
1932/11854 - ANDERSON, Harry - 81 years - d.o.d 6 Oct 1932
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As my quote from "The Swedes in NZ" has one thing incorrect it may well have other things wrong. It might be worth your while starting a new thread and asking for a look-up at Wellington Archives.
Include the following links in your post...
From: Henricky Anderson, Napier Date: 25 June 1884 Subject: Memorial for Naturalization
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24412797 (https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24412797)
and
Certificates of Competency - Master - Home trade [1879-1881]
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557091 (https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557091)
State that the 1879 Certificate for Henry ANDERSON is certificate no.5167
To be safe, I would also include the following link to the 1878 certificates. I don't think it will be needed but the official title in the AtoJ's is given as "Certificates granted during the Financial Year 1878-1879"
Certificates of Competency - Master - Home trade [1877-1878]
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557090 (https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14557090)
With luck, some kind soul will visit Archives on your behalf and take photos of the above documents. The photos will then be emailed to you.
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You may be wondering what this has to do with the crew list for the Høvding. In a nutshell - nothing :-)
But by looking through the "Household Registers" Ian has had previous success of finding a mention of crew members who have jumped ship. The "Household Registers" are records of pretty much everyone who lived in Sweden. The problem is that it's needle/haystack unless you know the parish in which the person was born. The above-mentioned naturalisation papers and certificate may hold a clue.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Simon,
I can save you the effort of starting a new topic requesting these files.
I'll have a look for the files Beg has listed above. We work well in harness harmony. ;) ;D
Spades
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Hi
... also, the birth place Stockholm may be incorrect. Many seamen wrote the Seaman's Institute in the town where they were written in as their birthplace.
and Hi Beg again. Our paths meet again!
Ian
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Thank you everyone for all your help and kindness. That is indeed my great grandfather, Catherine who was one of the executors was my great aunt who was an amazing lady who lived to be 100 years old.
I moved to the UK some years ago and somewhere have the name of where Henry was born and the name of his siblings but agree it was not Stockholm.
Simon
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Hi Simon
If you could find that info then there is a chance of finding him.
Ian
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Hi Folks
I've found what I discussed with my great aunt some 30 years ago. Henry was born in Helsingborg Sweden and had one brother possibly named August who drowned at sea and two sisters Ita and Mita who both were killed in the blitz in England during WW1.
It makes me wish I'd asked more questions all those years ago.
I hope this helps someone.
Cheers
Simon
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Can we assume the birthdate 15 Dec 1852 to be correct?
Ian
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Hello
Sorry I forgot to add that as far as I can tell that is the correct birth date.
Cheers
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Do you have any more info on Ita and Mita. Who they married and where they lived etc. Those names are not their real names or are they "pet names".
Ian
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Hi Ian
I'm sorry I don't, those are the only names ever mentioned.
Regards
Simon
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Hi again...
Just out of interest do you have the marriage certificate for Henry ANDERSON.
As it took place in 1881 it just sneaks in as one of the certificates which include birth place and, more importantly, names of parents. Will be helpful to know what info Henry gives as opposed to the (second-hand) info given by his informants/executors.
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[...] sisters Ita and Mita who both were killed in the blitz in England during WW1
Isn't the Blitz generally associated with WW2.
For what it's worth, FreeBMD has no obvious Ita or Mita/Mette/Metta recorded as dying during WW1 or WW2. Happy to be proven wrong.
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Have had a quick look through some of the parish records for Helsingborg. Nothing jumps out. Will look further this weekend. The records for Helsingborg "city" don't seem to be indexed on Family Search although their website says they are right up to 1860. A real pain.
Regards
Beg
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I have already checked the Church Books without success. Just waiting for any other info that might be posted, hopefully parents names and/ or a Parish.
Ian
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Hi DonL, Jamcat95 and SimonJA,
I have images of the 1879 Masters Certificate for Henry ANDERSON (no.5167) and the 1884 Naturalisation file for Henricky ANDERSON, Master Mariner of Napier.
Reading through this topic it seems to me that you might all have an interest in these documents.
I'm happy to send copies to anyone who sends me a PM with their email address.
By the way, DonL mentioned the surname BERGSTROM, and I think I saw that surname in one of the two Certificates of Competency - Master - Home trade files I sighted today.
Should I go back for another look?
Spades
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Thanks Spades. Unfortunately not a lot to go on. We'll see.
Ian
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Hi DonL
Trying to find a connection to all this through your Frans I went digging a little. I don't know what you have but I did look at your on-line tree.
There are a number of records I did find that might help out a little. I'll post them anyway even perhaps you may already know this. There was no mention of any name of ship involved.
-He was born Frans Theodor and was elegitimate. His parents were not married or nor did they get married. Sophia Charlotte Bergström died single. Lars Roslind was in the cavalry.
-He lived in Gothenburg from 1855 to 1862 with his mother and his grandmother and her family. His grandmother was a widow.
-In 1864 he had the name Theodor Roslind.
-According to his confirmation record from 8 May 1871 he was named Theodor Frans Roslind. Also recorded was the fact that he was a seaman and had enrolled 7 April 1873.
-Sophie Charlotte Bergström's will record from 1900 stated that her son Frans William sailed to sea and never returning back home being married and living in Australia.
Ian
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Just out of interest do you have the marriage certificate for Henry ANDERSON.
As it took place in 1881 it just sneaks in as one of the certificates which include birth place and, more importantly, names of parents. Will be helpful to know what info Henry gives as opposed to the (second-hand) info given by his informants/executors.
Hi Simon
I have tried to search for him with the same date of birth but to no avail. If you can get hold of his marriage record as posted by Beg then that may help out. We need more info.
Ian
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Hi Simon...
Was passing through a soggy Napier this morning so called in at the library.
Here is the death notice and an obituary for Henry ANDERSON.
Not of any obvious help but thought you might appreciate it.
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Click on the following link then X the pop-up box asking you to sign in to Dropbox.
Then click the "Download" button, then the "Direct Download" button.
Let me know if there's a problem.
http://tinyurl.com/ya7q8pul (http://tinyurl.com/ya7q8pul)
Regards
Beg
PS to SuperMod :-) ... am I right in thinking that only DonL gets notified of this post and not SimonJA
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Hi DonL,
Did you find anything about the deserters? My Great Grandfather arrived in NZ from Norway about then. There is a story that he jumped ship or was shipwrecked. He could be one of the 3 deserters in 1873 from the Hovding. His name was Carolus Peder Andreason which he anglicised to Charles Petersen. He worked for a time in Thames in the mines but after meeting his wife he married and they lived in Gisborne. He came from the island of Ona of the coast of Norway. I have not been able to find naturalisation papers for him.
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I am new to this site & need help. I too am seeking a crew list for the Hövding in 1873 in Napier NZ. Quite possibly my great grandfather could have been one of the deserters. He was born in Nordmaling, Västerbotten abt 1855/56 I believe. I have no idea of his Swedish name although a Eric Olssen was suggested. But his name here was Charles Thompson. I have been told a rumor that he jumped ship in NZ & he was possibly a cabin boy? His naturalization in Dec 1893 (age 37yrs) indicates he had been in NZ for 20 years making him about 17 yrs old when he jumped ship. I believe he worked on roads, bridges etc & was settled in Pohangina Valley after marrying Winifred Mary Maddock abt 1886/87 & also lived in Ashhurst NZ. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you 😊
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Hello Shazz54 and welcome to Rootschat....... :)
There may be something of interest here:
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/web/arena/search#/?q=hovding
You could ask if a Rootschatter could do a look up for you.
Minniehaha.
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Thank you minniehaha for your help. Whenever I can get to Wellington, I will do this. Cheers Shazz
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He was born in Nordmaling, Västerbotten abt 1855/56 I believe. I have no idea of his Swedish name although a Eric Olssen was suggested. But his name here was Charles Thompson.
Hi Shazz54
Just wondering where you got Nordmaling from.
Ian
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Hi Ian
To be honest from information on Ancestry & MyHeritage. I have always been told he was born in Sweden. Have chatted to a couple of people who have him in their trees too but they can't give me any more info. I have his death certificate hoping would give me more info. No parents names but says birth in Sweden but hard to read place. Looks like Nordonsling but could be Nordmaling. Also his son confirmed in documents that his father was born in Sweden. Been trying to work this all out for some time now. Regards Shazz
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Can you scan the place name and post it here.
Also where did you get Eric Olssen from?
Ian
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Hi Ian
Copy of Death Certificate
As for Eric Olssen was just a long shot. My friend helping me out matched this person as born in Nordmaling in right year & shows no record of marriage or children. Yep a long shot.
Cheers Shazz
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Hmm, not convinced it is Nordmaling. But I cannot think of anything better.
Ian
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Thank you minniehaha for your help. Whenever I can get to Wellington, I will do this. Cheers Shazz
You could ask if a Rootschatter could do a look up for you. You could start a new topic:
"Wellington Archives Look up."
Minniehaha.
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You could ask if a Rootschatter could do a look up for you. You could start a new topic:
"Wellington Archives Look up."
Minniehaha.
Perhaps hold off for a few days, our looker upper is on this thread, and should reply when he has a moment. Minnie or I could give him a nudge if he hasn't responded to the thread. :D
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you so very much
Regards Shazz :)
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Hi Shazz,
I’ve been nudged ;-)
Which of those files in Minnihaha’s Reply#27 above might you be interested in?
Spades
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Thank you Spades
"Hovding" - Immigrant Ship - Ship's Papers - Arrived Napier - 1 December 1873
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No worries,
I’ll see what I can do.
Archives NZ Wellington is still closed but it’s on my list.
Spades
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Thank you so much.
Very much appreciated
Regards Shazz