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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: maggbill on Tuesday 21 October 08 12:59 BST (UK)
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Researching McNab Family Tree. Jane McNab died 1872 in Glasgow, aged 35, married to Michael Kenney, "Private, 59th Foot". Jane and Michael were parents to Mary Kenney born about 1869. Have tried WO97 records, for Michael, but going around in circles. Only found one Michael Kenney, aged 18 in 1859, but not sure if he was "59th Foot". Can find absolutely no records for either Mary Kenney (only on 1871 census with Jane, in Glasgow) or Michael Kenney (only named on Jane's death certificate.). Jane and her family were born in "Ireland", so unsure if Michael also born there. Can anyone give any pointers? I am in South Australia, so will I really need to get professional help to further investigation at National Archives Army records?
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If we assume for the moment that Michael was roughly the same age as Jane, (ie aged 35 in 1872) then his army career may have started as early as 1854-ish when he would have been about 17.
Let's look at the movements of the 59th Foot:
1849-58 China (including 2nd Opium War)
1858-61 South Africa
1861-65 England
1865-67 Ireland
1867-69 Ceylon
1869-80 India (including 2nd Afghan War)
1880-85 England
From that, it may be worth looking for them in the 1861 or 1881 English censuses. Also the medal rolls for the 2 wars mentioned (I can check them later).
Do you have Mary's precise place of birth from that 1871 census?
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From the medal roll of the 2nd Opium War (2nd China War if you prefer) there is one possible match:
3601 Pte Michael Kenny, 59th Foot (entitled to medal with clasp for Canton 1857). Also the note that he was discharged on 30/12/73.
This certainly could be the man you're looking for. Note the spelling of his name though, have you allowed for alternative spellings in your searches so far?
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Many thanks for sharing your knowledge Neil. Will chase the 1861/81 English Census. Was only concentrating on Scottish. This Michael Kenny could be the one - will also look at the Medal roll - hadn't tried that. Also keeping spelling variation in mind. Soldiers becoming widowers - with children? Unlikely the child would stay with father? (especially considering the list of exotic places they went to?). Wondering if the child returned to Ireland with maternal grandparents after 1872, as they, having lived in Glasgow for years, seem to disappear - no death records.
Again thank you - great website - loads of help.
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There were two military schools available for full or partial orphans - Royal Military Asylum, Chelsea (aka Duke of York's School); and the Royal Hibernian Military School, Dublin.
The RMA registers are available online - http://www.rma-searcher.co.uk/Chelsea/index.htm but he is not listed. There is a contact address to discuss RHMS queries. The original documents are in Kew.
Ken
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thank you Ken for information about Royal Military Asylum and also Hibernian in Dublin. Amazing how family history searches open up new horizons of interest. I would never have believed that I could get so interested in things Military! And how difficult life must have been! Cheers !
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Hi Neil, Re Medal Roll, Pt. Michael Kenny - I really do get confused with the National Archives website... could you send me a link for where you found the information about Michael's medal 2nd Opium war??
Also re Mary Kenny's place of birth - - it would appear she was born in Glasgow Lanarkshire abt 1867. I understand that the 59th Foot spent some time in Aldershot and Glasgow in 1865 (Paisley and Ayr) and in Ireland about 1867 ? Got this from www.qlrmuseum.co.uk - Queens Lancashire Regiment museum. All fits in with Michael Kenny and Jane McNab meeting and marrying either in Ireland (? where) and or Scotland.
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Hi Neil 1821,
I am still in the dark about Michael Kenn(e)y, and his daughter Mary. Have tried to gain access to Medal Rolls - just can't figure out how !! also not successful re muster rolls.
Your information re Michael Kenny (2nd Opium War / discharge date 1873) may just be the one... but how on earth did you find it? LOL.. I am a "learner" but quickly picking up on the obsession of finding an answer to "the mystery"... Have not yet checked out 1861 /1881 census for England... certainly no record in the Scottish ones. To be truthful am hesitating re costs (ancestry.com the only way - to "pay" for access?) - have already spent a fair bit on Scotlandspeople re this one, and it is so vague... the only real record we have of this Michael Kenney (or Kenny), is on his wife's death certificate of 1872, - we have no info re year and place of birth / death, etc. So, any links re his military history would be magic.
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I am still in the dark about Michael Kenn(e)y, and his daughter Mary. Have tried to gain access to Medal Rolls - just can't figure out how !! also not successful re muster rolls.
Your information re Michael Kenny (2nd Opium War / discharge date 1873) may just be the one... but how on earth did you find it? LOL..
You'll be looking in vain for that information online I'm afraid, the internet is a wonderful thing but sometimes you have to turn to books and other sources.
;)
The China Medal roll has been published in book form by Kevin Asplin. A nice thing to have if your a military history buff, but you wouldn't want to buy it for the sake of a single look-up.
http://www.bookrabbit.com/catalogue/detail/bookid/1112670?s=gb
You'll have to take my word for it unless you can track down the book somehow.
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Hi Neil 1861
Again thanks a million for taking the time to answer. I do certainly "take your word for it". I have discovered I also can access the 1881 english census through the www.familysearch.org website, without having to pay - and heavens above - it looks like "Michael Kenny from Ireland" is like "John Smith from England" lololol. ::) Oh well, lots to follow up. Cheers and thanks again.
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Hello Neil
Can you tell me where to find out the movements of the 59th foot from about 1815 to 1828 please? You seem to know more about them than I have found anywhere on the internet. My no-good gg grandfather served with them 25 Dec 1815 to 22 July 1828 in East Indies and I really would like to find out what he was up to.....
Thanks so much
Regards
Caroline
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I have no special knowledge of that regiment in particular Caroline, as opposed to any other.
But to answer your question:
1815-17 India
1817-18 Ceylon
1818-29 India, including service in the 3rd Mahratta War and Jat War (google the siege of Bhurtpore for example)
If your ancestor was still alive in 1847 he may have claimed the Army of India medal for Bhurtpore.
If you have a name for us, it's easy to check.
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Hi Neil... I am not sure he would have qualified for a medal........ he sounds a pretty wayward fellow.
But if you have access to some records perhaps he is on there. These notes are what I know about his service in the 59th...
Born (1798), parish of St James, Dublin, Ireland. Enlisted Isle of Wight (what was he doing there??) 6 March 1816, aged 19, for unlimited Service. Service from 25 December 1815 (they must have caught him drunk?) to 22 July 1828. In East Indies 27 Sept 1816 to 8 June 1828. Discharged in consequence of chronic Headaches and general debility. 31 years of age. He went on to join the Royal Marines 1841 to 1856 (I have not yet got hard copies of anything) and the Coastguard 1856 (no hard evidence yet). I have other info about him but not pertinent to the 59th foot, which is a brand new avenue for me. I am going to the UK from Jo'burg in a couple of weeks time and I want to try my hand in Kew and perhaps look at some more records of his service, as they seem to be so interesting.
I am so glad I have managed to pin this man down after some years of wondering and chasing him........ ! The Medway archives were very polite and helped me to break down a brick wall when I made an enquiry about his death.
Regards
Caroline
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But if you have access to some records perhaps he is on there. These notes are what I know about his service in the 59th...
Very informative notes apart from one crucial bit of information.....his name. ;)
Can't do anything without it!
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oh yes! What a laugh....
the notorious................ James McDermot
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Here I am 4 years after my original posting re Michael Kenney, 59th Foot, and yes, I actually think I have made some progress - in fact have gained access to what I think are his 1873 military discharge papers from FindMyPast.
Unfortunately, they still don't give any indication to his marital status. Only hint is that he was eligible for a pension, and that his future place of residence was said to be Limerick Ireland. (Where he had enlisted, even though he was born in Tulla Clare).
Now, I have tried and tried to see if there are any records of his pension payments - and I must admit that the National Archives Kew website remains a total source of bewilderment to me. I think I have checked out the relevant WO22 - i.e. Chelsea Pension records etc., to no avail. I just have never encountered a website which confuses me more!
I think my travelling opportunities from Australia are non existant, but have a sister who will be in London in December, and she is willing to spend some time doing a search at Kew. She however is even less "au fait" with genealogy and Kew Records than I am, and I don't want her to be tying herself in knots, like I have been with the website.
Any advice anyone? If only I can verify this is "my Michael Kenney" - and where he ends up, I may be able to break down a most important family tree wall.
I have previously posted other questions re Michael, but thought that tagging this latest question onto this one would be the most appropriate.
thanks people !!
Maggs
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Hi Maggs
Have you tried finding Michael on the Irish census? - assuming he did end up in Limerick.
1901 & 1911 irish census are searchable online -
www.census.nationalarchives.ie
His military records are fascinating (hope you don't mind I had a quick peek!) glad he wasn't a totally good boy - my ggg grandfather got into trouble for falling asleep & letting some prisoners escape!.
Best of luck
Maria :)
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Hi Maria,
I did previously try finding him in Limerick and have just looked again - the 1901 census only gives one vague possible, - age 80 - but living with 40 year old daughter Bridget - really doesn't sound like him. he may have died before 1901.
I also have another post on this - started today - sorry moderators, hope I am not confusing everything - Maria, if you want to read what others have answered to other post - it is http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=625991.new#new
Yes, these long term soldiers really seemed to be a wild sort of bunch - Both the soldiers I have researched in my family were long term - 18 years service or more - and "charges" and even "court martials" for both of them - mostly due to drink - who could blame them lolololo.