RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Nennefer on Tuesday 21 October 08 20:24 BST (UK)
-
I am trying to make a connection between three men that I suspect were brothers they are James HEDGES born abt. 1815 in Plumbsted Kent and William HEDGES born abt. 1816 in Underriver, Kent. and Job HEDGES born abt. 1821 in Windsor, Berks.
I have them all togeather at Hunton, Kent. when they each had a child christened on Oct. 1 1848.
I also have them on census return when James is in Romford in 1871 and has Jobs son Job jnr. with him.
There is obviously a close family connection but I have no evidence to prove this.
I have had no luck in tracing any record that would give me the parents name of any of these three men.
I have become so desperate I have ordered a certificate that may or may not be a very late marriage for Job HEDGES to a Rosanna SWAN in 1863 Romford if this is my Job he would have been in his early 40's and his son Job jnr. married the following year in 1864.
Can anyone offer advice on what I could try next to either connect these three or to find the parents of William Hedges who I am descended from.
-
Hi
I see Job Hedges in 1851 transcribed as HODGES
Caravans
Long Lane Bexley
Job Hodges head mar residing in traveller's caravan/hawker b Berks Windsor
Rosa wife 32 b Sussex
William son 13 b Tonbridge wells Kent
Harriet 11 unemployed b kent Barning?
Job son 8 b Kent Braidhurst
James son 6 b Kent Cliffe
Jeremiah son 2 b Sussex
then I see Job jnr next door to James and Eliza hedges in 1871
1851
transcribed under Hedgis
St Mary, Kent
travelling house :) cart standing in Barns st
James Hedgis head mar 36 dealer in mats b Plumstead
Eliza wife 35
Esther 14
Sophia 12
Sebena 11
Golias 9
Elijah 5
Alfred 3
Olive 3 months
children b Kent
then in 1871
William Hedges b 1816 Under River, chair bottomer is with wife Frances, lodging with them is Alfred Hedges head mar 27b Kent Borstal with wife Eliza and children Emma John and Alfred. Next door is John 25 and Jane 26 Hedges.
going round in circles here :-\ ;D
Do you have all the children of the supposed brother's families?
I just don't want to cover what you already have ...so if you could tell us what censuses you do have them in that would help.
will search further
deb :)
-
Yes Got most of that. the census returns I have are as follows.
1851 Job Hedges Listed as Job Hodges in Bexley Heath, long Lane
1881 Job Hedges Listed as John Hedges in West Ham Essex Chapple Cottage
1861 William Hedges Chatham, Upper St.
1871 William Hedges Chatham, Jenkins Dale
1871 James Hedges Romford, Moss St,
I think James is the eldest born Abt 1815 in Plumbsted. Wife is Eliza.
His Children are
Esther 1837
Sophia 1839
selena 1840
Golias 1842
Eliajh 1845
Alfred 1848
Olive 1851
Then William born abt. 1816 in Underriver Kent. Wife Frances Jennings (Known as Fanny)
His Children are
William 1832
Sampson 1839
Joseph 1843
Alfred 1845
John 1848
Williams children stayed in the Chatham area and I have many Census with them on.
Then Job born abt. 1821 Windsor Berks. Wife Rosa Also referred to on Death cert. as Rosanna.
His Children are
William 1838
Harriet 1840
Job 1843
James 1845
Jeremiah 1848
Job's family as you can see stayed often in Essex.
I have just made a discovery on the Free BMD Jobs son Job Jnr. married in Romford in 1864 and when doing a search I found a marriage for a Job HEDGES in Romford for the year 1863 I was playing with the idea that Job HEDGES Snr. may have had a civil marriage late in life. So took a risk and ordered a cert. It gives
Married on Dec 28th Job HEDGES aged 40 Batchelor occupation Hawker Living Romford Father William HEDGES Occupation Labourer.
Married Rosanna Swan aged 40 Widow Living Romford Father John DAWES occupation Labourer.
I believe this IS a late marriage for Job snr. and it gives me his father William HEDGES which is great but I still have no official connection to show James William and Job as brothers. Surly they must be.
Would you say the Information I have for them being together for the Baptism of their sons in Hunton Kent was enough to show they were brothers.
I can find no early Census showing a William Hedges with three sons James William and Job in any area where the three were born.
If I can connect the three men then I have proof that Job's father William on the marriage cert. is in fact also father to William and James.
I hope you can follow this.
Thank you for the reply and your efforts to help with this puzzle I fear It's a puzzle I will never solve.
Jenny
-
Hi Jenny
never give up ...I have travellers/gypsies in my family ...thank goodness they have be enumerated at all ...they are so elusive.
what stand out to me is that Job Hedges married Rosa who was born in Sussex ...their 'last child ' jeremiah was born Sussex whereas all the other kids b Kent. My first thought was that Job was also married prior ...late here ...will look further torrow
deb
added ... we need to find them with a niece or nephew ...eeekkkk no sign of them in 1841 YET LOL
-
Thanks for your efforts it is much appreciated. I will try to stay positive although it is getting very hard. I have been searching for quite some time now.
I do have Job's son Job jnr. living in his own Wagon with his suspected Uncle James in his, on the 1871 Census for Romford, but no mention of them being related.
I feel it is important if I can to make a connection between William and Job as brothers as William is my line and Job is the one person I have a fathers name for. But am happy to find any thing on them at this stage.
The whole family have managed to avoid the early Census returns. I can only find Job on the 1851 but none of the others. I haven't found any of them on the 1841. They are elusive little monkeys.
Jenny
-
Hi Jenny
Doing a little bit of hunting to get my daily fix ;D
have you seen this ...rather co-incidental , I think but rather strange
in 1871
we have Job Hedges s/o Job and Rosa with 'uncle' James and family in Romford Kent. Job jnr is with wife Phoebe and children Caroline 3 and Nancy 1
but there is this too
In 1871
Job Hedges 30 b not known hawker (transcribed as Hedger)
Phoebe 30
Caroline 3 b Romford
Nancy 6 months "
staying at Gallows Green, caravans and tents, Brentwood Essex
deb ...still looking :)
-
Hi again Jenny
I am all over the place but hoping that we may come across William, James and Job's children with their families and a connection somehow ...we just need one census to hopefully say cousin of or nephew/niece of etc ....
1881we have in Chatham
Sampson Hedges head mar 41 family of tramps :-\ :-X :( b kent Gillingham
Bridget wife 31 b Limmerick Ireland
Sampson son 8 b Chatham
Samuel Watson boarder unm 16 hawker b kent lewis
could this Sampson be s/o William and Fanny?
sometimes it's a long haul to find the connection :-\ Hopefully we will find it !
deb :)
added trying to find samuel Watson in 1871 ...
-
Hi Jenny
Doing a little bit of hunting to get my daily fix ;D
have you seen this ...rather co-incidental , I think but rather strange
in 1871
we have Job Hedges s/o Job and Rosa with 'uncle' James and family in Romford Kent. Job jnr is with wife Phoebe and children Caroline 3 and Nancy 1
but there is this too
In 1871
Job Hedges 30 b not known hawker (transcribed as Hedger)
Phoebe 30
Caroline 3 b Romford
Nancy 6 months "
staying at Gallows Green, caravans and tents, Brentwood Essex
deb ...still looking :)
Hi Deb I have the first 1871 with Job Hedges s/o Job and Rosa with 'uncle' James and family in Romford Kent.
But have never seen the second
In 1871
Job Hedges 30 b not known hawker (transcribed as Hedger)
Phoebe 30
Caroline 3 b Romford
Nancy 6 months "
staying at Gallows Green, caravans and tents, Brentwood Essex
this one I would be interested in getting a full copy of where did you find it.
Jenny
-
1881we have in Chatham
Sampson Hedges head mar 41 family of tramps :-\ :-X :( b Kent Gillingham
Bridget wife 31 b Limmerick Ireland
Sampson son 8 b Chatham
Samuel Watson boarder unm 16 hawker b kent lewis
Yes this is Williams son. I have this too. Not a pleasant Enumerator who described them as Family of Tramps.
-
Hi Jenny
The ref for the 'other' Job is
RG10/1656 81 53 ...it just seems soooo strange to have a couple and their children with the same names, born about the same time in the same area and hawkers!!!!
I must admit that my blood started to boil at the enumerator's description of them ..... but then again it was 1871 and what did he know!
deb
-
Hi Jenny
The ref for the 'other' Job is
RG10/1656 81 53 ...it just seems soooo strange to have a couple and their children with the same names, born about the same time in the same area and hawkers!!!!
I must admit that my blood started to boil at the enumerator's description of them ..... but then again it was 1871 and what did he know!
deb
The Job Hedges in this census is the son of the Job Hedges I am trying to connect to William and James as brothers so It is a useful one to have.
I didn't think there were any more out there to find, but you certainly proved me wrong and I feel a little more hopeful that out there somewhere may just be the evidence I am looking for that will prove the three are brothers. :)
jenny
-
jenny
I will keep on looking ...
deb :)
-
OK do we have an impostor as we seam to have Job Hedges Junior son of Job Hedges Senior in two places at the time of the 1871 census. He is at Romford with uncle James and at Brentwood as you have just found him. do I have an error somewhere. Details follow
Romford Shakespear Rd, Moss Lane.
Job Hedges age 27 Licensed Hawker Born Breadhurst Kent
Phoebe Hedges aged 25 Born Breadhurst Kent
Caroline Daughter age 3 Born Romford Essex
Nancy daughter aged 1 Born Birmin Kent
then we have
Brentford gallows green.
Job Hedges aged 30 hawker Born Unknown
Phoebe Hedges aged 30 Born Unknown
Caroline Daughter aged 3 born Romford Essex
Nancy Daughter aged 6 months Born Romford Essex
Oh dear which is right :-\
-
This is amazing ...
Could it be possible that there are two Jobs with same wife and children's names in same area at the same time .... :o :o
In 1851 we have this;
I see Job Hedges in 1851 transcribed as HODGES
Caravans
Long Lane Bexley
Job Hodges head mar residing in traveller's caravan/hawker b Berks Windsor
Rosa wife 32 b Sussex
William son 13 b Tonbridge wells Kent
Harriet 11 unemployed b kent Barning?
Job son 8 b Kent Braidhurst ....bc 1843
James son 6 b Kent Cliffe
Jeremiah son 2 b Sussex
he def. fits with the Job in 1871 with 'uncle' James
Job Hedges age 27 Licensed Hawker Born Breadhurst Kent
so who is Job bc 1841 , POB Unknown? could he be the same guy or a relative ...
will look in 1861 ...although without POB who knowa what we will find ?
deb :-\
-
Hi Jenny
you mentioned that Phoebe and Job also had Ruthie, 1867 and Job 1866 ...I have looked again at the 1871 and can't see them ... I have found this death though;
Job Hedges
bc 1866
died Jun q 1868
aged 2
Rochford Essex
Vol 4a p 122
deb
-
AHA I think this may be Ruthie :'(
Ruth Hedger
bc 1867
died Dec q 1867
Chelmsford Essex
Vol 4a p 89
deb
-
Hi Jenny
you mentioned that Phoebe and Job also had Ruthie, 1867 and Job 1866 ...I have looked again at the 1871 and can't see them ... I have found this death though;
Job Hedges
bc 1866
died Jun q 1868
aged 2
Rochford Essex
Vol 4a p 122
deb
Ah that explains what happened to Baby Job. I found His Baptism on the IGI along with Ruthie the parents were Job and Phoebe. that explains why Baby Job is not on the 1871 Census Perhaps the same happened to Ruthie. How devastating it must be to lose a child.
-
AHA I think this may be Ruthie :'(
Ruth Hedger
bc 1867
died Dec q 1867
Chelmsford Essex
Vol 4a p 89
deb
Looks like that must be her. How sad. Good work finding that one. I will send for Certificates as I am Curious as to why they lost them thank you.
jenny
-
Hi Jeeny
Imagine losing 2 within 6+ months :-\ :'(
I wonder if we can find some more baptisms of the 'brother's' children all together as you did with the baptisms in Hunton.
deb
-
This is amazing ...
Could it be possible that there are two Jobs with same wife and children's names in same area at the same time .... :o :o
In 1851 we have this;
I see Job Hedges in 1851 transcribed as HODGES
Caravans
Long Lane Bexley
Job Hodges head mar residing in traveller's caravan/hawker b Berks Windsor
Rosa wife 32 b Sussex
William son 13 b Tonbridge wells Kent
Harriet 11 unemployed b kent Barning?
Job son 8 b Kent Braidhurst ....bc 1843
James son 6 b Kent Cliffe
Jeremiah son 2 b Sussex
he def. fits with the Job in 1871 with 'uncle' James
Job Hedges age 27 Licensed Hawker Born Breadhurst Kent
so who is Job bc 1841 , POB Unknown? could he be the same guy or a relative ...
will look in 1861 ...although without POB who knowa what we will find ?
deb :-\
I don't think it likely that we have 2 Job's with the same wife and children as when doing my research Job alone seems to be an unusual name in the South East of England.
More likely I think that we have some one who knew Job and Phoebe and didn't want the authorities knowing their real names so borrowed Job and Phoebe's family details, however they may not have known such personal details as where they were born. Job was born in Breadhurst, Kent. So I suspect that the Census with no known birthplaces is not the real Job and Phoebe. Just someone posing as them.
Another possibility could be that they were listed as being presant by someone else as they were due to arrive by the night of the census but hadn't at that point and as such got listed twice. Long shot I know.
-
Hi Jeeny
Imagine losing 2 within 6+ months :-\ :'(
I wonder if we can find some more baptisms of the 'brother's' children all together as you did with the baptisms in Hunton.
deb
To save covering ground I have already done I can list those Christenings that I already have. It will take me a little while to post them. I will get started listing them Give me a little while.
-
It's so hard to connect them as there is no IGI christenings at all for them ...I even tried under Hedger .... It does seem like a good possibility that they are brothers ....but we need proof ...just a little teeny tiny bit would be nice LOL ..
have you seen this marriage on Pallots;
Job Hedges (b) = Margt Curtis (s)
1790 Deptford Kent
I wonder if they are related in any way
deb
-
OK Iwill list the Christenings I have. For the children I don't have a christening for I will put Approx date of birth and place according to Census returns.
Children of James Hedges
Esther Christened 14 June 1835 Dartford Kent
Sophia Christening Not Known born 1839 plumbsted Kent
Selina Christened 12 July 1840 Lidsing Kent
Golias Christening Not Known Born 1942 Aylesford kent
Elijah Christening Not Known born 1845 Cliffe Kent
*Alfred christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent
Olive Christening Not Known born 1851 Cliffe Kent
Children of William Hedges (My Line)
William Christening Not Known born 1832 Town Malling or Wateringbury Kent (My Line)
Sampson Christening Not Known born 1839 Gillingham Kent
Joseph Christened 9 April 1843 Halling Kent
Alfred Christening Not Known born 1845 Borstal Rochester Kent
*John Christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent.
Children of Job Hedges
William Christening Not Known born 1838 Tonbridge Wells Kent
Harriet Christened 27 Sept 1840 Yalding Kent
Job Christening Not Known born 1843 Breadhurst Kent.
James Christened 11 May 1845 Hoo Kent
*Jeremiah Christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent
Thats all the children I have for the 3 suspected brothers.
-
It's so hard to connect them as there is no IGI christenings at all for them ...I even tried under Hedger .... It does seem like a good possibility that they are brothers ....but we need proof ...just a little teeny tiny bit would be nice LOL ..
have you seen this marriage on Pallots;
Job Hedges (b) = Margt Curtis (s)
1790 Deptford Kent
I wonder if they are related in any way
deb
No I hadn't Seen that. Makes me wonder If Job's father William could have had a brother Job date would be about right for that. definately worth hanging on to that one.
jenny
-
Hi
Thanks for posting the christenings ...
Just wanted to let you know that on the 1871 census where Job jnr is with uncle James ....that uncle James and Eliza have 2 more children...
Henry son16 b Essex Molton bc 1855
Rosa dau 14 b Rochford Essex bc 1857
deb
-
Yes Got most of that. the census returns I have are as follows.
1851 Job Hedges Listed as Job Hodges in Bexley Heath, long Lane
1881 Job Hedges Listed as John Hedges in West Ham Essex Chapple Cottage
1861 William Hedges Chatham, Upper St.
1871 William Hedges Chatham, Jenkins Dale
1871 James Hedges Romford, Moss St,
ooo I have found James and Eliza in 1861
Elsenham
List of persons not in houses
caravan
James Hedger mar 45 Mat maker b Plumbstead
Eliza wife 45 hawker Middlesex Islington
Selina 21 b Kent Budyar ?
Elias son 18 ..could he be Golias? hawker b Eltham/Elsenham? Kent
Elijah son 16 hawker b Stroud Kent
Alfred son 14 b Hoo Kent
Oliph dau 10 .... Olive maybe LOL ...b Chalk Kent
Henry 5 b Essex Moreton
Rosa 3 b Essex Chelmsford
Just looking at who were the other peeps in tents/caravans around them I spotted this family because of wife's POB
next 'door' to the Hedges
John ARNOLD head mar 22 mat maker b Chiselhurst
Maria Sophia wife 22 hawker b PLUMSTEAD KENT
James 2 Kent ?
John 1 Stroud
taking a chance I looked at marriages and guess what ...wooooohoooooo
Mary Sophia Hedges = John Arnold
Mar q 1858
Romford Essex
Vol 4a p 73
I wonder if she is another daughter bc 1839
deb :)
-
errrr after all that excitement I have realised that Maria/Mary Sophia must be the Sophia you already have...
Children of James Hedges
Esther Christened 14 June 1835 Dartford Kent
Sophia Christening Not Known born 1839 plumbsted Kent
Selina Christened 12 July 1840 Lidsing Kent
Golias Christening Not Known Born 1942 Aylesford kent
Elijah Christening Not Known born 1845 Cliffe Kent
*Alfred christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent
Olive Christening Not Known born 1851 Cliffe Kent
but at least we know that she may have been christened as Maria/Mary Sophia and not just Sophia.
deb
-
Wow. Deb you truly are a marvel. How do you do it.
That must be Sophia I recall seeing a Mary or Maria Sophia possibly on the IGI. I will go look. The census is great are you able to get the original I would love to see it if you can.
No I have had a look can't find Sophia on the IGI.
-
Hi Jenny
re Olive Hedges d/o James
found her marriage
Olive Hedges = William Spencer
dec q1871
Romford
vol 4a p 215
Then in 1881
West Thurrock, Essex
Vans back of Main rd
William Spencer mar 31 basket maker b Colchester
OLIVIA wife 30 hawker bChatha,
Elias son 7 b Upton Manor, Essex
William son 6 b Barking rd
Henry son 5 b Woodford
Eliza dau 3 Cambridge
Mary a 11 months b Writtle
James Young serv 14 b Sandy, Bedfordshire,
Christopher Bentridge ser 22 Brentwood, Essex
No clues there unless James Young or Chris Bentridge are rellies ..
arrghhhh where is the connection
deb
-
Wow another one of the children on the Census is great and a wonderful help. But as you see a connection between the 3 brothers is proving little more challenging but I have an idea. It may help but then it may be of no use what so ever.
Now how to explain,
William HEDGES Married Frances JENNINGS (Known as Fanny) on the 23 Sept.1833 at Yalding witnesses at the wedding were John NELSON and Harriet JENNINGS
Then later we find
Elias EASTWOOD Married Harriet JENNINGS on 28 Sept 1835 At Yalding
Witnesses at the wedding were James HEDGES and Frances EASTWOOD
Now we know Frances JENNINGS was Born in Islington Middlesex.
now note Eliza wife to James HEDGES was also born in Islington Middlesex
I think Frances JENNINGS is also Sister to Eliza wife of James HEDGES
I am not sure how all this information could help prove a connection between the brothers but I am sure there is something there that I just can't put my finger on.
-
Hi Deb
This really is such a complex problem and I will of course understand if it is to much. You have been such a great help to me and it is very much appreciated. I do believe the connection is out there somewhere but for the life of me can't fathom where the connection is. i have no doubt you can also see that the 3 men James, William and Job are indeed related there are way to many connections between them for them not to be closely related. Ahhhhhhh its so frustrating. I need a bigger brain ;D
-
ooo That's great ... now to find the connection ...
I have seen a lot of brothers marry a lot of sisters (well you know , not their own sisters ...eeekkk you know what I mean LOL)
I have been doing some painting so need to rethink ...but they do seem soooo closely related ...
deb
-
William HEDGES Married Frances JENNINGS (Known as Fanny) on the 23 Sept.1833 at Yalding witnesses at the wedding were John NELSON and Harriet JENNINGS
Then later we find
Elias EASTWOOD Married Harriet JENNINGS on 28 Sept 1835 At Yalding
Witnesses at the wedding were James HEDGES and Frances EASTWOOD
Now we know Frances JENNINGS was Born in Islington Middlesex.
now note Eliza wife to James HEDGES was also born in Islington Middlesex
I think Frances JENNINGS is also Sister to Eliza wife of James HEDGES
I am not sure how all this information could help prove a connection between the brothers but I am sure there is something there that I just can't put my finger on.
It's the witnesses at the weddings that give the clue Harriet JENNINGS being witness at My William and Frances wedding and then I have to ask myself is the James HEDGES who was witness at Harriets JENNINGS wedding, is he our James HEDGES Williams Brother.
I still can't see how a connection can be made but there must be some thing. I have tried finding out more about the Jennings girls but have come up with nothing so far. I can't even remember why I think Eliza is a JENNINGS except for the birth places being the same.
My brain gets so bogged down with it sometimes I think it will explode. I wish I could wipe my brain and look at it with a fresh mind. I just feel like I am missing something obvious. Hmmmm
-
Hi
I have Eliza wife of James being born circa 1816 Stansted Herts on the 1851 census ... By 1861 and in 1871 his wife Eliza is born Islington :-\ :-\
I wonder if there were two marriages for James ..there is also a five year gap between Olive and Henry being born. The elder of his children were all born Kent then henry and Rosa come along and are born Essex.
There is this marriage James Hedges = Eliza Elizabeth Staines (on same page)
jun q 1864
Romford Essex
Vol 4a p 125
also remember Job his 'brother' married Married on Dec 28th the same year (Job HEDGES aged 40 Batchelor occupation Hawker Living Romford Father William HEDGES Occupation Labourer)
need another cup of coffee ...will be back LOL
deb :)
-
Hi
Am a little confused ( its not hard to confuse me lol) you are saying you have found James and Eliza on the 1851 and 1861 census.
I think the marriage may just be for James HEDGES son of Job HEDGES Senior.
So I have
Job Hedges (Senior) married Dec 28 1863 To Rosanna Dawes
Job Hedges (junior) married June Q 1864 To Phoebe Gumbleand you have found
James Hedges Married June Q 1864 to Eliza Elizabeth Staines
I think this is Job (juniors) brother James. I looks like the 2 brothers married at the same time. Not James (Senior) brother to Job (Senior)
hope that make sense.
Jenny
-
Hi jenny
Blimey ...all these same names ...
yes I have James on the 1851 and 1861 ...1871 he is next door to job Jnr
1851 from page 1 or 2
1851
transcribed under Hedgis ..def Hedges
St Mary, Kent
travelling house cart standing in Barns st
James Hedgis head mar 36 dealer in mats b Plumsted
Eliza wife 35 b HERTS STANSTED
Esther 14 b Kent Stone
Sophia 12 b Plumsted
Sebena 11 b lidgen
Golias 9 b b Aylesford refered to in 1861 as Elias
Elijah 5 b Cliffe
Alfred 3 b Cliffe
Olive 3 months b Cliffe
children b Kent
Eliza's POB has been transcribed as Kent Stansted ...but def looks like HERTS ...not even like the Kent in all other POB.
I will send you a copy ..
1861Elsenham
List of persons not in houses
caravan
James Hedger mar 45 Mat maker b Plumbsted
Eliza wife 45 hawker Middlesex Islington
Selina 21 b Kent Budyar ?
Elias son 18 ..could he be Golias? hawker b Eltham/Elsenham? Kent
Elijah son 16 hawker b Stroud Kent
Alfred son 14 b Hoo Kent
Oliph (sic) dau 10 b Chalk Kent
Henry 5 b Essex Moreton
Rosa 3 b Essex Chelmsford
so do you think they may be different women ?
Have you followed James s/o Job through the censuses ?
deb also confused ;D
-
Copies of the 2 census would be wonderful I only found James Senior on the 1871 so 2 more has got to help fill out and confirm all the facts.
I really am beginning to think this puzzle may yet get solved. You really are excellent at this. I'm very jealous of your talent. ;D
As for the census returns with Eliza I'm not sure there certainly is a gap in the children and the birth places are differant. I have had a look on Google Earth and Stansted is quite away from Islington.
The ages would be correct though for it to be the same woman. I think I would like to keep an open mind on Eliza being 2 differant woman for now.
I have very little on James son of Job just a possible birth entry on Free BMD and a Christening nothing on the Census for him at all. If I could find some perhaps it would be possible to connect that marriage to him.
James Hedges = Eliza Elizabeth Staines (on same page)
jun q 1864
Romford Essex
Vol 4a p 125
then we would have a second James and Eliza to add to the confusion. Oh dear couldn't they think of differant names just to make it a little easer.
Is it common to have this sort of problem amongst travelling familys.
-
Hi Jenny
Thanks
and yes, it is very common to have all this confusion with Gypsies/travellers, especially since they are not always found on the census returns. Also a lot of them did not know where they were born , which obviously adds to the 'chaos' LOL
Re; Eliza b Herts or Islington ... I think that the easier but obviously expensive way to go , would be to order the birth certs of an older and younger child.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if say Henry or Rosa's cert revealed that their mum was the Staines girl ...you would then have a marriage cert that you could order to see who James' (one of the suspected brothers) dad was ... ;D
I am still hoping that one of the censuses will hold the clue
deb :)
-
All the repeated names in my HEDGES family, made me wonder just how many Williams etc. I actually have so just for fun I had a quick count of the most highly repeated.
Here's what I found
William HEDGES I have 7
Samson HEDGES or Sampson I have 5
John HEDGES I have 4
Then I have 3 of all the following
Alfred HEDGES
EMMA HEDGES
Henry HEDGES
James HEDGES
Job HEDGES
Joseph HEDGES
They didn't plan on making my life easy did they. LOL
I wonder how many others have the problem of trying to decipher which is which on Census and BMD's Ahhhhhh ;)
-
Hi Jenny
Thanks
and yes, it is very common to have all this confusion with Gypsies/travellers, especially since they are not always found on the census returns. Also a lot of them did not know where they were born , which obviously adds to the 'chaos' LOL
Re; Eliza b Herts or Islington ... I think that the easier but obviously expensive way to go , would be to order the birth certs of an older and younger child.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if say Henry or Rosa's cert revealed that their mum was the Staines girl ...you would then have a marriage cert that you could order to see who James' (one of the suspected brothers) dad was ... ;D
I am still hoping that one of the censuses will hold the clue
deb :)
Yes I see that sounds like an excellent idea. I will do that.
As you say might find more on the Census yet so will hold off from ordering for a very little while.
With your help we are forming a plan which is much more than I had a few days ago.
-
Another evening searching and I found this it is Alfred s/o William HEDGES
Not much use for our purpose of connecting the brothers, but something at least. No new information though. :)
Jenny
Household: 1881
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Alfred HEDGES Head M Male 34 Frindsbury, Kent, England Genl Labr
Eliza HEDGES Wife M Female 33 Maidstone, Kent, England
John HEDGES Son Male 15 Chatham, Kent, England Ag Labr
Thomas HEDGES Son Male 13 Chatham, Kent, England Scholar
Alfred HEDGES Son Male 11 Chatham, Kent, England Scholar
James HEDGES Son Male 9 Chatham, Kent, England Scholar
Albert HEDGES Son Male 6 Strood, Kent, England Scholar
William HEDGES Son Male 5 Strood, Kent, England Scholar
Frances HEDGES Daur Female 2 Strood, Kent, England
Esther HEDGES Daur Female 6 m Strood, Kent, England
~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
Dwelling The Orchard
Census Place Strood, Kent, England
Family History Library Film 1341209
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0882 / 25
Page Number 44
-
Hi Nennefer
Just to alert you on the Kent board we have some research going on into the Cooley and Cork families, which links into your marriage of John Hedges to Jane Cooley in 1878.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338879.0.html
-
Hi there- I am not quite sure if this is what you are looking for, but my great-great-grandmother's name was Albey Hedges, and she married Alfred Cumbers, and was located in Romford, Essex & Herts. She reportedly was a traveller, but that is all the information that I have on her. If she is related to the brothers, please let me know, as this would help fill in some gaps. She had about 12 children and seems to have given birth to Elias (1885) in Tralon, Kent, Eliza (1887) Southend-on sea, and Olive (1891) & Alice (1892) in Flamstead, Herts. It would be wonderful to know more.
-
Hi Janice
Welcome to Rootschat! :D
Do you have any other info on Albey Hedges...ie when married, where and when born, parents names ? Hopefully we will be able to help you.
deb :)
-
Hi Deb: Thanks for your reply. I am trying to find that information, but I do know that she was 16 when she got married, and her first child was born in 18885, so I am guessing that she was probably born in 1868, and that she must have been married some time around 1884, maybe. Does that tie in with the brothers? I have some distant cousins who have gone more into this and I can get some information from them, but it will take time.
-
OK. Albey was born around 1862 or 1865 in Dartford, Kent. Her parents were Elias Hedges and Alice (?), Elias Hedges was born (?) 1844 in Dartford Kent. The siblings names were: Ailene 1867; Elijah 1871; Henery 1877; Charlotte 1874; Phoebe 1878; and Celia 1880.
-
One more thing, she married Alfred Cumbers May 7, 1883.
-
Dear Jennifer and Deb:
I think I have figured out something (maybe). It seems that my great-great grandmother, Albey Hedges (married name Cumbers) had a father called Elias and a mother called Alice. The father, Elias and Alice, then had at least 6 children, one of whom was Elijah. According to the October 25th post reply, Elijah was one of the names that also came up in their history. Since all of these names more or less run through my maternal family history, (Esther, Phoebe, Henry, Elias, and Elijah), I think we are on to something.
My mother was brought up by her grandmother, Albey, and she told me that her grandmother's family sold carpets and used to come through Romford once and a while on their travels. My great-aunt Liza (Eliza) confirmed this. Liza's daughter was also called Phoege.
Does any of this mean anything to you guys?
-
Hi Janice
Thanks for all your info ...I do have a recollection of coming across an Alby/Alvy ..it's late here so I will reread and scout around in the morning.
Hope Jenny comes back soon ... :)
deb
-
Hi Jenny and Janice
Okay trying to connect you both and I def think everything fits.
Jenny comes from the line of William Hedges (1816) 'brother' of James (1815), James being Janice's line .
So starting with 1881
1881
Caravan
Elias Hedges 37 mar licensed hawker b Aylesford Kent>>>> Janice's GGG Grandfather
Alice wife 35 b Kent St mary
Alvy/Alby 16 b Dartford Kent >>>>> Janice's GG Grandmother
sibs;
Olive 14 b Southfleet Kent ...this could be the Aileen you refered to
Elias 12 b Kirnson Kent
Elijah 10 b Erith Kent
Lottie 7 b Sussex Raleigh
Thomas 5 Kent Sittingbourne
Henry 4 b Essex Woodford
Phoebe 3 b Essex Weathersfield
Celia 11months b essex Romford
In 1871
Living 'next door' To James Hedges , 55 is Job hedges 27 s/o Job snr 'supposed brother of James ...also next door is
Elias Hedges , 27 b Berks, his wife Alice 22 b Kent and children:
Elvy 6b Dartford Kent,
Olive 4, Kent Southfleet
Elias 3 Kinson
Elijah 1 Erith
1861
Elsenham
List of persons not in houses
caravan
James Hedger mar 45 Mat maker b Plumbsted>> Janice's GGGG Grandfather
Eliza wife 45 hawker Middlesex Islington
Selina 21 b Kent Budyar ?
Elias son 18 ..could he be Golias? hawker b Eltham/Elsenham? Kent ....Janice's GGG Grandfather
Elijah son 16 hawker b Stroud Kent
Alfred son 14 b Hoo Kent
Oliph (sic) dau 10 b Chalk Kent
Henry 5 b Essex Moreton
Rosa 3 b Essex Chelmsford
1851
transcribed under Hedgis ..def Hedges
St Mary, Kent
travelling house cart standing in Barns st
James Hedgis head mar 36 dealer in mats b Plumsted
Eliza wife 35 b HERTS STANSTED
Esther 14 b Kent Stone
Sophia 12 b Plumsted
Selena 11 b lidgen
Golias 9 b b Aylesford refered to in 1861 as Elias
Elijah 5 b Cliffe
Alfred 3 b Cliffe
Olive 3 months b Cliffe
children b Kent
hope this helps
deb :)
-
Hi again
i also cannot find the marriage of elias Hedges to Alice ??
the only way to find her maiden name would be to order one of the children's birth certs;
possible registrations;
Elvy Hedges
june q 1865
Dartford Kent
vol 2a pg 303
Elijah Hedges
mar q 1870
Dartford < kent
vol 2a pg 383
Elias Hedges
jun q 1868
Sevenoaks Kent
Vol 2a pg 499
Phoebe Hedges
mar q 1878
Braintree Essex
4a 433
deb
-
trying to find the connection
Jenny has the three "brothers" all at the same place at the same time having their children christened ;
OK Iwill list the Christenings I have. For the children I don't have a christening for I will put Approx date of birth and place according to Census returns.
Children of James Hedges ..... Janice's line
Esther Christened 14 June 1835 Dartford Kent
Sophia Christening Not Known born 1839 plumbsted Kent
Selina Christened 12 July 1840 Lidsing Kent
Golias/Elias Christening Not Known Born 1942 Aylesford kent...... Janice's GGG Grandfather
Elijah Christening Not Known born 1845 Cliffe Kent
*Alfred christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent
Olive Christening Not Known born 1851 Cliffe Kent
Children of William Hedges b 1816 in Underriver Kent and francis/fanny Jennings.. Jenny's line
William Christening Not Known born 1832 Town Malling or Wateringbury Kent (My Line)
Sampson Christening Not Known born 1839 Gillingham Kent
Joseph Christened 9 April 1843 Halling Kent
Alfred Christening Not Known born 1845 Borstal Rochester Kent
*John Christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent.
Children of Job Hedges
William Christening Not Known born 1838 Tonbridge Wells Kent
Harriet Christened 27 Sept 1840 Yalding Kent
Job Christening Not Known born 1843 Breadhurst Kent.
James Christened 11 May 1845 Hoo Kent
*Jeremiah Christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent
The 1871 census seems to be the only real link btween 'brothers' James and Job ...now we have to find William's family near/with the other brother's families ...arrggghhhhhhh
In 1871 Romford Essex in Caravans
James Hedges 55 and family ....Janice's line
Job jnr s/o Job snr (one of the brothers)
Elias Hedges and family s/o James
so Elias is with his dad, James, and 'cousin', Job
deb
-
Hi Dbe: Thanks for your reply. I think that Albey might be Alvey (my mother was actually called Elvina). If so, and she was the eldest and was born in 1865, we might assume that Elias and Alice were married somewhere around 1864? Probably in Kent? Where do you fit in the family, Deb? I will try to contact my other relatives and see what they have to say. J.
-
Hi Janice
Yes ...it certainly seems that Albey was christened/named Alvey/Elvy. i cannot spot the marriage anywhere ... maybe they married years later or not. i will keep looking.
I am not part of the family .... i was just helping jenny find her people. i do have gypsies in my family ...they are the Penfold/Orchard and James people from Wiltshire, Devon and Cornwall.
deb :)
-
That was nice of you ... so hard to get connected when your people are travellers.
I wish I had paid more attention when I was younger. My great-great grandmother (Alby/Alvy) and was alive and also the other siblings, so I could have asked so many questions. Now it is too late unfortunately. I still have an aunt Phoebe, whose mother was Eliza. I wanted to tell Deb that when Alvy/Alby died, there was a write up in the paper (according to my grandmother) that said there were so many travellers at her funeral that they blocked the roads with their wagons!! I think she died in Wickford (she lived her latter life in Pitsea).
I hope you have more luck connecting with your family. I don't know too much about that part of England, but if anything comes my way, I will send it on to you. J.
-
Deb: I just found a we-page in UK called Romanygenes. You might want to try it.
-
Hi Janice77 and Deb
Thanks for helping Deb.
Looks like we could be related Janice, Pleased to meet you. Your family must be from James who was selling mats in St. Marys Hoo in 1851. Fancy coming across his descendant. Sorry if I sound odd, just so surprised I have had the record of James and family in Hoo for many many years and suspected a connection between him and William but never expected to come across a descendant. If only I could find definite proof of the three brothers. We would know if we are related. I am going to read and re-read the posts and try to get the details fixed in my head. Then I will re-look at my records and see what I can do to help you find out more Janice
-
Hi Jenny
How wonderful is this ...although you may never 'prove' the connection it is very likely that you are all related .... if it had not been for the 3 'cousin' being baptised the same date in the same place , you may never have known ....
I am still searching for a census where maybe a cousin/neice/nephew is listed along with the others. Maybe there is a marriage cert out there where a witness may be the proof you need .... never give up !!!!
I am happy to help ...especially when new live connections are made.
deb :)
-
Thanks Deb this really is wonderful.
I may have something of use I am sitting up to my armpits in my old paper records and strait away found a copy of an old email that may be of interest to Janice give my 10 minutes and I will type it in.
-
ooooo I can't wait ;D
I wonder if Janice has details on Alby/Alvy's funeral ...a newspaper clipping or something ...it may state who the family were that attended.....
deb :)
-
The Email is from a lady by the name of Sylvia and was sent in June 2001 it says this.
Hello
I saw your piece in Romany Routes and wonder if we may have an interest in common my late grandmother was a HEDGES I list some information which may be of use
Elia HEDGES born Arlsford Kent 1844 died Romford 1926
Alice (nee REYNOLDS) born St Marys Cray 1846 died 1923 Hoddesdon Herts no formal reg of marriage which would havebeen about 1864
Between 1865 and 1870 3 children were born in Kent
In 1874 they were in Essex
1876 a child was born in Sittingbourne
1877 onward they appeared to be in the Essex area
And when my Grandmother was married in Hoddesdon a newspaper report said they were a familiar sight with there caravans in that area.
I am able to provide dated and places where Elias & Alice had there children.
However I am unable to find in other information before the first child was born the only census I have located them on is the 1881 census for Navestock (Romford) Essex
Sylvia Harvey
It is old but gives Alice's maiden name as REYNOLDS. Hoping this helps Janice.
Right I'm going back to my dusty papers and see what else I have in them.
Jenny
-
ooooo I can't wait ;D
I wonder if Janice has details on Alby/Alvy's funeral ...a newspaper clipping or something ...it may state who the family were that attended.....
deb :)
If a news clipping could be found wouldn't that be great. Often there were long lists of family mentioned. Now that would be interesting wouldn't it. I wonder where the nearest archives with newspapers would be. ;D
There is a marriage on the IGI for Alfred CUMBERS to Albey HEDGES on 7 May 1883 at Woodford Essex.
It gives Alfred CUMBERS as born 17 Oct 1859 in Romford Essex
-
Jenny ...WOW what a fab email .... I had suggested to janice that they may never had married ....
quoting from previous posts:
"Yes ...it certainly seems that Albey was christened/named Alvey/Elvy. i cannot spot the marriage anywhere ... maybe they married years later or not. i will keep looking."
"Alice (nee REYNOLDS) born St Marys Cray 1846 died 1923 Hoddesdon Herts no formal reg of marriage which would havebeen about 1864"
Sylivia must have ordered a birth cert of one of the children to find alice's maiden name ....
woohoooooooooooooo how exciting !!!
deb :)
-
Hi Ladies:
Yes I think that Jenny and I are related. I will call my aunt tonight and try to get the e-mail of my distant cousins who have gone into this, but I'm not sure if they went into the Cumber's side of the family or both. I will ask anyway when I get their numbers. How can we contact Sylvia?
Also, Deb, there was something about Penfold on the Romany web-site that I sent last time...maybe you already know a lot about your history.
I also would like to know more about Alice. I had my DNA done by the National Geographic Project, and they trace it back through the female side for females, so for me Alice would be the one that I am wondering if she was Romany or not. Elias obviously was, but I have no males to test - everyone is dead. That would be really interesting because we could see where he really did come from.
Also, Jen, are you in the UK or USA? I know Deb is in the USA.
I am so happy that we all found each other.
J.
-
Oh, I just remembered one more thing about Alice. I think she is my grandmother's sister that she always called "poor Alice" because she died early (like "poor Olive"). Anyway, the name Reynolds is also familiar. Of note, it lookes like Albey had a few children before she got married to Alfred, so that maybe the children were known by more than one last name.
If we can contact Sylvia, maybe we can fill in some more of the tale. J.
-
Hi Janice
I live in the Kent, UK not far from the area where my ancestor William HEDGES settled in Chatham Kent. I am about an hour away by car and just a couple of hours from Essex. Where are you?
I have an old email address for Sylvia I will PM it to you. You could try that and if you get no reply you could always try getting contact through The Romany and Traverller Family History Society. The Romany Routes Magazine that she contacted me through is their magazine. They may be able to put you in touch if she is still a member.
This is the site for them http://www.rtfhs.org.uk/
Have you ever read a book called Gypsies of Britain by Brian Vesey-FitzGerald. There is a mention of James HEDGES on page 88 it states.
Thompson records that at the funeral of James Hedges, one of a half-blood family that travels chiefly in Essex, a friend dropped half-a-crown into the open grave, saying as he did so:"Here Jimmy: here'ssomething for a drink on the way."
The book was first published in 1944 so he is talking of a James prior to that. From the others he is talking of in the chapter I get the impression it is about 1910 to 1920.
I wondered if there was other info. on James Hedges funeral available somewhere I think I need death details to be able to investigate more.
Regards Jenny
-
I have found this record of a death for a James HEDGES and wonder if this is our James I might have to send for it and just see what I get, not sure what I would gain though. Do you think it worth getting Debs.
Deaths Sep 1889
Hedges James 76 Romford 4a 138
Age makes this James born 1813 I have James as 1815 so it could be him I guess.
-
i have been making inquiries about James HEDGES at Havering Archives. On the 1871 Census he is with his family in caravans outside Hedges Cottage in Moss Lane Nr. Shakespeare Rd. Romford. I was curious about the name of the cottage so made some inquiries. This is what I found out.
I have checked the Rate Book for 1871 and the following is listed
Romford Town Ward 4th January 1871
Albert Road nr. same (this I think must be Moss Lane which comes off Albert Road)
OCCUPIER OWNER DESCRIPTION
Hedge, James Hedge, James Cottage and garden
same same land
Martin, H. same Cottage and garden
Chalinor, H same Cottage and garden
Hedge, James same Garden ground
The same entries appear for 1872. Clearly then the land in that area is owned and some of it occupied by James Hedge - hence I suppose Hedge's Place.
So James HEDGES was a man of property and actually owned Hedges Cottage but didn't live in it. He and his relations stayed in the garden in 1871.
Not sure if this info. will help discover a connection between the three supposed brothers but it puts flesh on the bones. He certainly wasn't a poor traveller.
-
Hi girls :)
This is all so exciting !!!!
Janice ...I do have quite a lot on my Penfolds .... I have visited the Romany genes site and others ...thanks for you interest.
RE: Alice Reynolds b 1846 St mary ...I cannot find her in the 1851 or 1861 census ... I also cannot find a birth registration for her :-\ The fact that they were not formally married is also a problem as we have no cert to order to find more details :(
re Albey/alvey Cumbers nee Hedges
1891
Cheshunt, Hertford
Longfield Lane
Caravan
Alfred Cumbers head mar 31 hawker b essex Romford
ALBEY wife 26 b Kent dartford
Elizer son 6 Dartford
Eliza dau 3 b South End essex
/
Elias Hedges head 52 hawker b Dartford
Alice wife 50 b dartford .... so now bc 1841
Elizass son 22 hawker b dartford
Elijah son 20 hawker b dartford
Charlotte dau 18 hawker b dartford
Phoebe dau 16 b Romford essex
Eliza dau 13 b Romford
1901
Cheshunt, Hertford
Caravan Standhews Lane
Alfred Cumbers head mar 42 travelling hawker/employer b Romford
AUBREY (sic) wife 36 Dartford kent
Elias son 16 treavelling hawker b kent Teston?
Eliza dau 14 b Southend on Sea
Olive dau 10 b Herts, Flamstead End ...is this "Poor Olive'?
Alice dau 8 " " ...is this "poor Alice"?
Phillis dau 4 " "
Henry son 2 " "
I found this birth ;
Albey Cumbers
june q 1891
Edmonton Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
3a 483
Now who does she belong to ? ...unless she is Olive ?
deb
-
Hi again
found this site by g**gling ...have you seen them janice ....? It has the genealogy of the Cumbers family ;
http://essex1841.com/Legacy/2661.htm
deb
-
William HEDGES Married Frances JENNINGS (Known as Fanny) on the 23 Sept.1833 at Yalding witnesses at the wedding were John NELSON and Harriet JENNINGS
Then later we find
Elias EASTWOOD Married Harriet JENNINGS on 28 Sept 1835 At Yalding
Witnesses at the wedding were James HEDGES and Frances EASTWOOD
Now we know Frances JENNINGS was Born in Islington Middlesex.
now note Eliza wife to James HEDGES was also born in Islington Middlesex
I think Frances JENNINGS is also Sister to Eliza wife of James HEDGES
I have found this marriage Jenny
Jeremiah Hedges = Sarah Ann Eastwood or Harriet Tanner
dec q 1870
Romford Essex
4a 181
Jeremiah b 1848 s/o Job
can't confirm who yet as i cannot find them in 1871 ...will look further.
-
hi
Jenny ...re the marriage of Jeremiah ...the other man on the page was a Sidney Eaton
I have found Sidney Eaton , b 1849 with wife HARRIET in Romford , Essex on the 1871 census ...
so if Sidney Eaton = Harriet Tanner then Jeremiah Hedges must = Sarah Ann EASTWOOD.
So we have the eastwoods and Hedges marrying each other.
YOUR William Hedges marries Frances Jennings (1833 Yalding)...her sister, Harriet, marries Elias Eastwood in 1835 Yalding where a James Hedges is a witness. Then Jeremiah s/o Job Hedges marries an Eastwood.... within this statement are the names of all the 'brothers'
It seems probable that William and James were all living in the same area 1835-1838
Will see if I can find more
deb :)
-
hi
Jenny ...re the marriage of Jeremiah ...the other man on the page was a Sidney Eaton
I have found Sidney Eaton , b 1849 with wife HARRIET in Romford , Essex on the 1871 census ...
so if Sidney Eaton = Harriet Tanner then Jeremiah Hedges must = Sarah Ann EASTWOOD.
So we have the eastwoods and Hedges marrying each other.
YOUR William Hedges marries Frances Jennings (1833 Yalding)...her sister, Harriet, marries Elias Eastwood in 1835 Yalding where a James Hedges is a witness. Then Jeremiah s/o Job Hedges marries an Eastwood.... within this statement are the names of all the 'brothers'
It seems probable that William and James were all living in the same area 1835-1838
Will see if I can find more
deb :)
Wow debs you are doing well. I was always lead to believe we were connected to the Eastwoods but was told it was later. Interesting. We also have connections to the Loverages and Hoadleys all travellers. looks like you are starting to close in on them. We must be a gnats whisker from proving they are brothers.
-
This could be Alice REYNOLDS in 1861
1861 - Caravan, Mill Road, Hoo, Kent
George REYNHOLDS head mar over 20 brush maker b.not known
Charlotte wife over 20 born not known
Alice dau 17 b.Orpington Kent
Eliza dau 14 b.Orpington Kent
Sarah dau 11 b.Kemson (?) Surrey
George son 7 b.Crokenell (Crockenhill?)
Mace dau 6 b.Crokenell
Thomas son 8m b.Crokenell
RG9/475 folio 50 page 45
.....................
1871 - Van in Field, Bromley, Kent
George REYNOLDS head mar 64 hawker b.Frindsbury Kent
Charlotte wife 55 b.Frindsbury Kent
Elvina dau 22 b.Orpington Kent
Sarah dau 20 b.Orpington Kent
George son 17 b.Orpington Kent
Mercy dau 15 b.(A...rsford) Kent
Thomas son 10 b.(A...rsford) Kent
RG10/874 folio 99 page 37
Casalguidi :)
-
BRILLIANT Casalguidi :D :D
just Brilliant!!!!!
deb
-
This could be her
IGI extracted
Alice reynolds d/o George and Charlotte
chr ; 30 JUL 1843 Chelsfield, Kent
others born of George and Charlotte Reynolds
ELICY REYNOLDS
18 JUL 1847 Saint Mary Cray
MERCY REYNOLDS
26 AUG 1855 Orpington
GEORGE REYNOLDS
24 JUL 1853 Orpington
PHILLIS REYNOLDS
13 NOV 1836 Northfleet, Kent
Phoebe Reynolds
3 JAN 1841 Brasted, Kent
deb :)
-
Its looking good. This is so interesting, but got to go out for a few hours. Will look in again later.
Nice work. ;D
-
I have am going away for the evening ... off to the Marine Corps Ball ...will be back tomorrow sometime ....
bye for now and have fun!!!
deb :D
-
Hey Girls:
You're both out for the night. Anyway, I contacted a distant relative who has been doing a chart and who sent me some attachments that I can't open a few years ago. I have contacted her again tonight. She told me that a couple of years ago that she could trace back to Samuel Hedges in 1771. Who knows, maybe this is the father of all the brothers!!!!!!! Anyway, looks like we are going to solve it one way or the other.
As for me, I was raised in Romford, Essex, and most of my mother's immedate family lived in Collier Row. Grandfather Cumbers and Alvey owned an old pub called the Rose and Crown (according to my mother), and also owned the land near Clock House Lane, that became a housing tract after WWII. Romford must have been a little village in those days.
When I get the chart, I will paste it on the site for you. J.
-
Has anybody looked into this family - it looks as though they may well be connected somehow ???
1841 - Oakwood, Wotton, Dorking, Surrey
Thomas HEDGES 40 ag lab
Eden 40
Elizabeth 15
Thomas 15
Jane 10
Sarah 8
Eden 6
Frederick 2
Elizabeth 30
John 4
Maria SIMMON 60 traveller
All listed as not born in Surrey
HO107/1081 folio 24 page 15
.........................
1861
Eden HEDGES mother mar 62 pauper b.Crawley Surrey
Frederick son unm 22 ag lab b.N H*l*n Middlesex
Elvenor dau unm 19 house servant out of place b.Betchworth Surrey
Sampson son 15 b.Crawley Surrey
Phoebe DAVIS gdau 9 b.Blackheath
Vansloe gson 6 b.Blackheath
Kezia gdau 3 b.East Peckham Kent
RG9/426 folio 69 page 22
.........................
1871 - Falkland Rd, Dorking, Surrey
Emanuel DAVIS head mar 50 lab b.Lewisham Kent
Jane wife 41 laundress b.Lewisham
W son 16 b.Lewisham
Rosia (Kezia?) dau 13 b.Lewisham
Elizabeth dau 6 b.Dorking
Jethro son 3 b.Dorking
/
James DALTON head mar 32 lab b.Dorking
Sarah wife 33 b.Seal Kent
Elizabeth LAWDER boarder 11 b.Plaistow Kent
James DALTON son 7 b.Bletchingly Surrey
Alice LOWDER dau 6 b.West Malden Kent
/
Frederick HEDGES lodger unm 31 lab b.Middlesex
RG10/829 folio 78 page 1
............................
Thomas HEDGES married Eden BREWER at Hadlow, Kent 1820 http://www.familysearch.org
Emanuel DAVIS married Jane HEDGIS at Croydon 1864 http://www.familysearch.org
Interestingly, the Sarah DALTON late LAWDER nee CORK is part of the CORK/COOLEY family on the Kent board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338879.0.html
Casalguidi :)
-
Hi casalguidi
It is very possible that Thomas HEDGES is another brother to James HEDGES 1815 William HEDGES 1816 and Job HEDGES 1821
But I am struggling to find the piece of evedance to prove that the 3 i have are brothers.Perhaps Thomas is the key it would be interesting to know more about him.
A cousin of mine is currently working hard to find evidence of the 3 being brothers and has been looking at some HEDGES in the Malling area of Kent. He has the death certs of these 3
Deaths Sep 1854
Hedges Susan Malling 2a 269
Hedges Thomas Malling 2a 269
Hedges William Malling 2a 270
And I should be getting copies next week
Thomas HEDGES was 1 year old died of Cholera and is recorded as the son of James HEDGES present at death ( could he be named after the Thomas you have found in the census who could also be a brother to James, William and Job)
William HEDGES died of Typhus Fever. Present at his death was Eliza HEDGES (This could be the wife of James HEDGES he was married to an Eliza)
Susan HEDGES was very old in her 80's
-
I haven't been able to see any more about Thomas as yet but it would appear that another Rootschatter is looking into Thomas and Eden http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,239799.msg2220778.html#msg2220778 so I have alerted Maggott to your thread.
Casalguidi :)
-
Hi Jenny
I have been following the Kent thread ...also a very interesting one ...just a quick question ....
Which John Hedges married the Corke/Cooley girl?
deb :)
-
Hey Girls:
You're both out for the night. Anyway, I contacted a distant relative who has been doing a chart and who sent me some attachments that I can't open a few years ago. I have contacted her again tonight. She told me that a couple of years ago that she could trace back to Samuel Hedges in 1771. Who knows, maybe this is the father of all the brothers!!!!!!! Anyway, looks like we are going to solve it one way or the other.
As for me, I was raised in Romford, Essex, and most of my mother's immediate family lived in Collier Row. Grandfather Cumbers and Alvey owned an old pub called the Rose and Crown (according to my mother), and also owned the land near Clock House Lane, that became a housing tract after WWII. Romford must have been a little village in those days.
When I get the chart, I will paste it on the site for you. J.
I would be very interested in the information your distant relative has on Samuel HEDGES 1771. I'm not sure we can assume he is father to James, William, and Job just yet as I recently found a marriage for Job HEDGES that gives his father as another William HEDGES
This is how I came across it. Job HEDGES I know travelled the Essex area. According to census returns he was married to a Rose/Rosanna
His son Job HEDGES married a Phoebe and his marriage is here
Marriages Jun 1864
Gumble Phoebe Romford 4a 124
Hedges Job Romford 4a 124
when looking for his marriage I noticed another. This...
Marriages Dec 1863
Hedges Job Romford 4a 169
Swan Rosanna Romford 4a 169
Now I considered that It may not be the Job and Rose that I wanted as this marriage would mean they didn't marry until their 40's and long after having their children, but I took the risk and ordered the cert. here are the details ...
Dec 28 1863
Name Age Occupation Residence Father Fathers Occupation
Job HEDGES 40 Bachelor Hawker Romford William HEDGES Laborer
Rosanna SWAN 40 Widow " Romford John DAWES Laborer
Witnesses James NICHOLS and Olive NICHOLS
Now I believe this IS Job HEDGES senior born abt. 1821 and that he had a late marriage.
If I can prove that James HEDGES and William HEDGES are brothers to Job HEDGES then their father is the William HEDGES as listed on the marriage cert. and I will have another generation back.
Can you all follow this. It is very complicated. Ahhhhh going mad. ;D ;)
-
Hi Jenny
I have been following the Kent thread ...also a very interesting one ...just a quick question ....
Which John Hedges married the Corke/Cooley girl?
deb :)
Ok. Right hope I can explain this in a clear way. This is what I have on my tree.
John HEDGES c 1849 married Jane Cooley c 1843 they married November 11, 1878 in Gillingham Kent.
John HEDGES is the son of William HEDGES born 1816 in Underriver Kent William was married to Frances Jennings on September 23, 1833 at Yalding Kent.
I have no children listed for them.
I have a copy of John HEDGES marriage to Jane COOLEY
Does this fit with what you know from the Kent thread. I must confess the Kent thread has me a little lost.
-
Hi Jenny
the reason I asked is because of this from the Kent Thread . Reply #176
quote;
"So we have this family: This is Jenny's William and Family
William Hedges c 1816, Underriver, and wife Frances with
Alfred c 1844 Borstal, Kent and
John c 1848 Brenchley, Kent
and then this family (as above from the 1881):
William c 1833 Malling, and Eliza c 1834 Deptford with (amongst others)
William c 1855 Chatham
Samson c 1863 Chatham
and from your message
an earlier generation:
Thomas c1800 and Eden c 1800 Crawley with (amongst others)
Frederick c 1839, Middlesex.
I wonder whether William Hedges c 1816 from Underriver and Thomas 1800, were brothers, and William 1833 Malling was the son of another brother, perhaps. William 1833 is not the son of Thomas 1800 as your 1841 census seems to prove, and he's born a bit too soon to be William 1816's son.
If this is true:
That would make Frederick, living with Sarah Cooley Dalton and her husband in the 1871 a cousin of the John Hedges who marries Sarah's sister Jane. "
My understanding of this is that John s/o your William and Fanny married Jane Cooley
Frederick is s/o Thomas and Eden
so Fred and John are cousins , therefore your William hedges is brother of Thomas hedges
am I confused or does this give us a connection that we have been looking for ?? :o
deb
-
I wonder whether William Hedges c 1816 from Underriver and Thomas 1800, were brothers, and William 1833 Malling was the son of another brother, perhaps. William 1833 is not the son of Thomas 1800 as your 1841 census seems to prove, and he's born a bit too soon to be William 1816's son.
Right let me see you suggest William c 1816 from Underriver and Thomas 1800 are brothers. I can get that no problem.
what I am not understanding is your next bit - William 1833 Malling was the son of another brother
Why can't William 1832 born Malling be William c 1816 underriver's son
The Evidence I have for William HEDGES 1816 Underriver being the father of William HEDGES 1832 Malling is from William HEDGES 1832 Marriage Cert that I have.
Nov 22 1858
Marriage at St peter st Paul Chatham
William HEDGES aged 25 Bachelor Chairbottomer Chatham Father: William HEDGES Chairbottomer
Eliza CLARK aged 24 Spinster Chatham Father: James CLARK Basket Maker
I know William Hedges 1816 Underriver could only be about 16 years old when William 1832 was born but I don't have birth certs for either so ages are only Approximate. Is this marriage cert. enough to prove William is Williams father. I never questioned it before and never even thought about William 1816 being to young. Oh dear. Could William 1832's father be a differant William His occupation is correct and I have never come across another suitable candidate.
-
I do agree it does look like Thomas is a definite brother to William 1816 Underriver and I definitely need to know more about Thomas.
I also need to know more about this Thomas from Malling that Died age 1 in Sep quarter 1854 who's father was a James HEDGES. I wonder if I can find a record of his birth registration or christening. Going to have a hunt. ;D
-
Hi jenny
I have no idea which William is which ...arrghhh getting confused .....
What I posted was a quote from the Kent thread ...it was their supposition re ..William bc 1833 not being the son of you William b 1816 ....
oooooo myyyyyyy ...where do we go next ;D
deb
-
This is so confusing I agree there. I think we just need to concentrate on linking the 4 brothers. We are so close now I can taste it.
It is my view now that we have 4 brothers
Thomas 1801
James 1815
William 1816
Job 1821
From the marriage cert of Jobs marriage to Rosanna we have the fathers name William HEDGES Labourer.
If I can find out more on both Thomas 1801 and find some evidence to prove the following that I have found on on this Baby Thomas who died in Malling in 1854. aged 1 Father of this baby is James HEDGES.
This is what the IGI has but how do I prove it is correct.
THOMAS HEDGES Pedigree
Male
Event(s):
Birth: 09 MAR 1853 Panfield, Essex, England
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: JAMES HEDGES Family
Mother: ELIZA JENNINGS
Can I refresh your memory William married Frances JENNINGS at Yalding her sister Harriet was witness at the wedding then Harriet JENNINGS married Elias EASTWOOD also at Yalding and the witness was James HEDGES
I always thought Eliza could be another sister and think I mentioned it in an earlier post. If the above is correct then she is a JENNINGS and James and Eliza had a son Thomas that died aged 1 in Malling. I need a birth registration for this baby.
-
This could be the birth cert. for baby Thomas its on the freeBMD
Births Mar 1853
Hedges Thomas Braintree 4a 304
I am going to take a chance and order it.
I was just wondering is Panfield Essex under Braintree. Can any one tell me.
-
Hi jenny ...
Yes it is !!!!! Panfield reg district =Brainfield, sub-reg district = Finchingfield
deb :)
-
just a thought ...
I wonder if any of Thomas' kids wer christened the same date as the other cousins?
BTW ..love your picture of Sampson
deb :)
-
Yes thats a thought need to look for christenings for them. Thank you so much Deb for your help in this you really have been a diamond. It really is hard to keep focused on where I need to go with all this and you have helped so much it really is very much appreciated.
I have just sent for baby Thomas Hedges birth Cert. so should soon be able to prove whether Eliza was a JENNINGS. If she was the two brothers James and William both married JENNINGs sisters.
As mentioned in an earlier post my cousin Peter Hedges is sending me copies of the 3 death certificates from Malling Kent.
I think the Hedges family were camped there and were struck down with Typhus
killing 3 of them. One of them was a Susan aged 80 (I think thats what he said) this would make her born about 1774. I have to ask could she be mother to the 4 brothers. Is it worth me looking for a William HEDGES (Remember Job's father was a William) married to a Susan. Just thinking aloud here.
-
Hi
I have been trying to find Thomas and Eden Hedges in 1851 ...to no avail ... hoping to find a child b c 1848 . :-\
I will look around for Susan ...
we'll get there in the end ... well I hope we do ;D
deb
-
Throwing this in to the mix.
I have my Job HEDGES as being born in Windsor Eton Bucks according to the census.
Which I thought a little odd as it is quite a way from the birth places of the other brothers. Thinking about Susan 1774 and searching for the 4 brothers with a mother Susan I find this on the IGI but the dates don't work out, to early. but look at the place. How confusing is this. :o
JAMES HEDGES
Male
Christening: 10 DEC 1780 Eton, Buckingham, England
Parents:
Mother: SUSANNAH HEDGES
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C069991 1594 - 1810 0919642 Film 6909209 Film
C069991 1811 - 1878 0919643 Film NONE
Sheet: 00
Do we have a birth place for the new brother Thomas HEDGES
-
1841 - Oakwood, Wotton, Dorking, Surrey
Thomas HEDGES 40 ag lab
Eden 40
Elizabeth 15
Thomas 15
Jane 10
Sarah 8
Eden 6
Frederick 2
Elizabeth 30
John 4
Maria SIMMON 60 traveller
All listed as not born in Surrey
HO107/1081 folio 24 page 15
.........................
1861
Eden HEDGES mother mar 62 pauper b.Crawley Surrey
Frederick son unm 22 ag lab b.N H*l*n Middlesex
Elvenor dau unm 19 house servant out of place b.Betchworth Surrey
Sampson son 15 b.Crawley Surrey
Phoebe DAVIS gdau 9 b.Blackheath
Vansloe gson 6 b.Blackheath
Kezia gdau 3 b.East Peckham Kent
RG9/426 folio 69 page 22
.........................
1871 - Falkland Rd, Dorking, Surrey
Emanuel DAVIS head mar 50 lab b.Lewisham Kent
Jane wife 41 laundress b.Lewisham
W son 16 b.Lewisham
Rosia (Kezia?) dau 13 b.Lewisham
Elizabeth dau 6 b.Dorking
Jethro son 3 b.Dorking
/
James DALTON head mar 32 lab b.Dorking
Sarah wife 33 b.Seal Kent
Elizabeth LAWDER boarder 11 b.Plaistow Kent
James DALTON son 7 b.Bletchingly Surrey
Alice LOWDER dau 6 b.West Malden Kent
/
Frederick HEDGES lodger unm 31 lab b.Middlesex
RG10/829 folio 78 page 1
............................
Thomas HEDGES married Eden BREWER at Hadlow, Kent 1820 http://www.familysearch.org
Emanuel DAVIS married Jane HEDGIS at Croydon 1864 http://www.familysearch.org
Interestingly, the Sarah DALTON late LAWDER nee CORK is part of the CORK/COOLEY family on the Kent board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338879.0.html
Casalguidi :)
I have been working from Casalguidi's info ...unfortuantely Thomas is not listed with them in 1861 and I am still unable to find them in 1851...as a matter of fact , I don't think we have many Hedges on the 1851....
Maybe we should summarise where everyone is during the different censuses ... ::) :o ;D
The only Susan* Hedges I can find bc 1774 is still alive at the age of 87..she was born Wiltshire arrghhhhhhh tearing my hair out !!! ;D
-
I don't think we should worry to much about Susan at the moment if nothing obvious has turned up. I will see what the death Cert says when it arrives next week. I do believe Eliza HEDGES was present at her death Eliza is wife to James HEDGES 1815 So I would have thought she was a Mother or perhaps Grandmother.
I'm going to hunt for any christenings for Thomas's children. ;D
-
OK I have from the IGI
Jane HEDGES Christened 13 feb 1831 at Rusper Sussex Father Thomas HEDGES Mother Eden
Sampson HEDGES Christened 11 Mar 1845 Crawley Sussex Father Thomas HEDGES Mother Edy
Haven't found the others though.
-
Good morning :)
On the hunt for the elusive Hedges brothers again LOL
I went back to the 1841 census to see if there were any Hedges living in Yalding...
1841 we have a Mary Hedges 15, b 1826 living as a F S on a farm at Fox Pitts, Yalding.
then I found this by looking for Hedges in Maidstone;
1841
Kent County prisons , Maidstone :o
WILLIAM HEDGES 65 seat bottomer b 1776
JOSEPH HEDGES 20 seat Bottomer b 1821
could this be their dad and another brother ??
deb
both born in county
-
1841
Kent County prisons , Maidstone
WILLIAM HEDGES 65 seat bottomer b 1776
JOSEPH HEDGES 20 seat Bottomer b 1821
Oooooooh, that looks interesting 8)
Casalguidi :)
-
Hi Casalguidi
It does , doesn't it ...I am very excited about the 'find' ... tried to follow up with both of them ...to no avail :-\
I wonder if we can find William b c 1776, his death ....we might find who registered it.
Also , Yalding was where William Hedges married ...I wonder who Mary Hedges belongs to... she is the only Hedges in that area in 1841. I have no no luck with her either. I did find a baptism on IGI but for a Mary Ann Hedges b East malling , I think ...
deb :)
-
Oh wow deb that is excellent. What a find. I cant believe you found him. This really is getting very exciting. ;D I'm set for another evening of hunting. Can I ask where you found that. ;D
-
Deb have another look at the records only check under Hodges I think there is another one. I remember my Cousin Peter Hedges went to Maidstone archives office recently and mentioned this to me and I'm sure there are 3 HEDGES/HODGES.
-
Hi All,
Could be completely wrong here but what about this family in 1861
Name spelt Hedger, living in caravans in Hertfordshire, most born around Kent
James and Eliza b 1816 and 7 children ??? RG09 / 808 / 37 / 20
Sorry for butting in but i love a challenge ;D
If you need help let me know what to look for ;D
Sue
-
Hi All,
Could be completely wrong here but what about this family in 1861
Name spelt Hedger, living in caravans in Hertfordshire, most born around Kent
James and Eliza b 1816 and 7 children ??? RG09 / 808 / 37 / 20
Sorry for butting in but i love a challenge ;D
If you need help let me know what to look for ;D
Sue
Hi Sue
You are welcome to assist. All help with the elusive HEDGES is much appreciated. Thank you.
That looks like my James and Eliza in Hertfordshire. Could you get more info/ details. Children's names ages etc. That would be a great help. As much detail as poss. Going to have a look to see where Heartfordshire is, my they did get about didn't they.
Jenny
-
Deb..... You found 2 in prison in Kent but there are 3 :)
James Wm age 40, William age 65 and Joseph age 20 all b Kent.
Jenny will post now :)
-
Here they are :)
James Hedger head age 45 b Plumstead, Kent occ mat maker
Eliza wife age 45 b Islington, Middlesex, occ hawker
Elisa dau, unmarried age 21 b Bredgar, Kent, occ hawker
Elias son, married, age 18 b Eltham, Kent, occ hawker
Elijah son, single, age 16 b Stroud, Kent, occ hawker
Alfred son age 14 b Hoo, Kent
? dau age 10 b Chalk, Kent
Henry son age 5 b Morston, Essex
Rosa dau age 3 b Chelmsford, Essex
Address Caravan, Tye Green, Elsenham
On original census there are lots of other families in caravans :)
Hope this helps :)
-
The 3 in prison in 1841 (wonder what they did)
James Wm 40 (b 1801)... surely this couldn't be James born 1815.
William 65 (b 1775)... now this could be the father to the brothers?
Joseph 20 (b 1821)... could this be Job born 1821 I have had him referred to as John in the past.
Just thinking aloud again. :-\
-
Jenny that census was 1861 :)
What about this for Elias in 1871? It has wrong birthplace for him though ???
RG10 / 1644 / 115 / 47
Elias Hedges head age 27 b Berkshire, occ lic hawker
Alice wife age 22 b Kent
Elvy dau age 6 b Kent
Olive dau age 4 b Kent
Elias son age 3 b Kent
Elijah son age 1 b Kent
Address Shakespere Road Hedges Cottages, Caravan in Front, Romford
Added... look at the original census ;D ;D
-
OK doing this thinking aloud stuff again. The 4 brothers. Do you all agree the spread of birth dates seems very wide.
I have...
Thomas 1801
James 1815
William 1816 (my line)
Job 1821
Before Thomas arrived I already thought the large gap between William and Job was odd.
I am thinking there must have been others between these surely. These HEDGES seem to breed like rabbits. My Grandmother Ena HEDGES was one of 14 children. I'm finding it hard to believe there aren't more out there to join these. Anyone else got an opinion on it.
-
Have you got my pm yet? ;D
-
Jenny that census was 1861 :)
What about this for Elias in 1871? It has wrong birthplace for him though ???
RG10 / 1644 / 115 / 47
Elias Hedges head age 27 b Berkshire, occ lic hawker
Alice wife age 22 b Kent
Elvy dau age 6 b Kent
Olive dau age 4 b Kent
Elias son age 3 b Kent
Elijah son age 1 b Kent
Address Shakespere Road Hedges Cottages, Caravan in Front, Romford
Yes we have this one already, they are there with other family members staying in the front of Hedges cottage in Moss Lane. It is just off Shakespere Road. James HEDGES owned this cottage at the time the Census was taken but didn't live in it. James seems to have been reasonably well off and rented the cottage out whilst he and family members stayed in the grounds.
Thanks anyway.
-
Have you got my pm yet? ;D
Yes thank you very much. ;D
-
Ok..... I got all excited about that ;D
So what do we need to find now, who and where?
-
Ok..... I got all excited about that ;D
So what do we need to find now, who and where?
I'm not sure myself I can only find 1 brother Job HEDGES on the 1851 census the others are all missing.
It could be that they are just not on it or the surname has been spelled wrong. I have had it spelled HIGGIS, HODGES, HEDGER and even AGES.
Deb has done a really good job finding what she has so far.
I guess looking for more information on the latest addition to the family would be good Thomas HEDGES married to Eden BREWER. I haven't seen the marriage entry for them. They Married on 1 Oct 1820 at Hadlow Kent. I don't know if the original record would give any additional info at all. Might be worth a look. Not sure if it could be found on line though.
-
Think you are right Jenny......... must be more than just the 4 brothers ???
Seems such a big gap between ages, unless some died ??? Job is a brother and not son of Thomas
Will have to try and find more of this family i think :)
Im off to bed soon gotta be up at 5.30 :( but will be back to help :)
-
Hi Sue ...great to see you ...glad you are on board with this one LOL ;D
jenny ...I will try Hodges in 1841 and see what we find .... are we just looking in Maidenstone?
deb
I am really hoping that the William bc 1776 in prison is yours ....wonder why they were in prison ...?
-
Hi
The James Wm Hedges in 1841 in prison is actually Hodges ...his has def. got the 'O' and not an 'E' . he is also a victualler.
started looking for Hodges in 1841 ..... there are a LOT of them in Maidstone arrghhhhhhh
deb
-
Deb have another look at the records only check under Hodges I think there is another one. I remember my Cousin Peter Hedges went to Maidstone archives office recently and mentioned this to me and I'm sure there are 3 HEDGES/HODGES.
Jenny
What DOB/Year do these Hodges have ....?? are they pre 1800?
deb
-
Hi
The James Wm Hedges in 1841 in prison is actually Hodges ...his has def. got the 'O' and not an 'E' . he is also a victualler.
started looking for Hodges in 1841 ..... there are a LOT of them in Maidstone arrghhhhhhh
deb
Hi Deb thanks for checking James Wm out for me if he is a Victualler and definitely HODGES then he is most likely not one of mine. I was just wondering if he was as they often put HEDGES down wrong. I am pretty sure the William and Joseph are mine though. I am beginning to wonder weather the parents to the brothers are a William and Susannah Fitzjoy that married 1st October 1844. Only problem is the marriage is late compared to the births of the brothers
-
Hi Jenny
Have been going through IGI and noticed that you didn't have this one ...
submitted , but confirms James Hedges = Eliza Jennings .... If we can prove that she is sister to Fanny who married your William...we may be closer still!!!!
Olivia Hedges d/o James Hedges and Eliza Jennings
1 FEB 1851 Cliffe Road, Frindsbury, Kent
Children of James Hedges and Eliza
Esther Christened 14 June 1835 Dartford Kent
Sophia Christening Not Known born 1839 plumbsted Kent
Selina Christened 12 July 1840 Lidsing Kent
Golias/Elias Christening Not Known Born 1942 Aylesford kent...... Janice's GGG Grandfather
Elijah Christening Not Known born 1845 Cliffe Kent
*Alfred christened 1 Oct 1848 Hunton Kent
Olive Christening Not Known born 1851 Cliffe Kent
deb :)
-
re Olive Hedges d/o James
found her marriage
Olive Hedges = William Spencer
dec q1871
Romford
vol 4a p 215
Then in 1881
West Thurrock, Essex
Vans back of Main rd
William Spencer mar 31 basket maker b Colchester
OLIVIA wife 30 hawker bChatha,
Elias son 7 b Upton Manor, Essex
William son 6 b Barking rd
Henry son 5 b Woodford
Eliza dau 3 Cambridge
Mary a 11 months b Writtle
James Young serv 14 b Sandy, Bedfordshire,
Christopher Bentridge ser 22 Brentwood, Essex
No clues there unless James Young or Chris Bentridge are rellies ..
Jenny .... IGI confirms this with a submitted entry :D
Olivia Hedges b 1 FEB 1851 Cliffe Road, Frindsbury
marries William Spencer on 2 OCT 1871 St Andrews, Romford, Essex
deb
-
Hi Jenny and Deb,
Are we still searching for the 4 brothers ???
If not have you got any further searching 1841 Deb :)
Sue
-
Hi
Trying to find the connection between the Jennings girls.
Eliza bc 1816 Islington = James Hedges
Frances/fanny b 1814 Islington = William Hedges
Harriet b ?? = Elias Eastwood (James Hedges was a witness)
Eliza Jennings d/o Josh jennings and sarah
born 16 DEC 1815
Chr 28 FEB 1816 Upper Street Independent, Islington
deb
hi Sue :)
We have not found some of them in 1851 ....I will go back and see what/who is missing ..
-
Sue this is what we have in 1851 ...we need to find William bc 1816 and Frances/Fanny b London
I see Job Hedges in 1851 transcribed as HODGES
Caravans
Long Lane Bexley
Job Hodges head mar residing in traveller's caravan/hawker b Berks Windsor
Rosa wife 32 b Sussex
William son 13 b Tonbridge wells Kent
Harriet 11 unemployed b kent Barning?
Job son 8 b Kent Braidhurst
James son 6 b Kent Cliffe
Jeremiah son 2 b Sussex
then I see Job jnr next door to James and Eliza hedges in 1871
1851
transcribed under Hedgis
St Mary, Kent
travelling house :) cart standing in Barns st
James Hedgis head mar 36 dealer in mats b Plumstead
Eliza wife 35
Esther 14
Sophia 12
Sebena 11
Golias 9
Elijah 5
Alfred 3
Olive 3 months
children b Kent
then in 1871
William Hedges b 1816 Under River, chair bottomer is with wife Frances, lodging with them is Alfred Hedges head mar 27b Kent Borstal with wife Eliza and children Emma John and Alfred. Next door is John 25 and Jane 26 Hedges.
-
Sue
this is how we figure things are;
I have just found Olivia's christening which suggests her mother is Eliza JENNINGS:
Olivia Hedges d/o James Hedges and Eliza Jennings bc 1816 Islington
1 FEB 1851 Cliffe Road, Frindsbury, Kent
then we have William Hedges = Frances/fanny Jennings bc 1814 Islington in YALDING 1833
Also a Harriet Jennings = Elias Eastwood in YALDING 1835 ...witness JAMES HEDGES (her brother-in-law?)
If we could find Elias and Harriet Jennings ...that may provide more clues ...I have not spotted them yet !
see Jenny's explaination below....
Now how to explain,
William HEDGES Married Frances JENNINGS (Known as Fanny) on the 23 Sept.1833 at Yalding witnesses at the wedding were John NELSON and Harriet JENNINGS
Then later we find
Elias EASTWOOD Married Harriet JENNINGS on 28 Sept 1835 At Yalding
Witnesses at the wedding were James HEDGES and Frances EASTWOOD
Now we know Frances JENNINGS was Born in Islington Middlesex.
now note Eliza wife to James HEDGES was also born in Islington Middlesex
I think Frances JENNINGS is also Sister to Eliza wife of James HEDGES
I am not sure how all this information could help prove a connection between the brothers but I am sure there is something there that I just can't put my finger on.
-
Deb... Gotta run to pick kids up so can you check this please
1881 RG11 / 865 / 39 / 22
Eastwoods living in carry van in Dartford :)
Might not be of use im not sure ;D
-
Hi Deb and Sue
My this family really are frustrating.
I tend to be very wary of some of the so called facts on the IGI this is an example of how things don't always add up.
Job Hedges
Birth: About 1844 Breadhurst, , Kent, England
Parents:
Father: James Hedges
Mother: Eliza
James and Eliza didn't have a son Job born 1844 Breadhurst. He is Job 1821and Rosanna's , son. I think the person who submitted the record has seen Job 1844 staying with his uncle James in the Census return and assumed him to be his son.
So although Eliza is recorded as being a JENNINGS it would easy to make her a JENNINGS instead of Frances.
Deb is the record of Olive's christening only from the IGI or has it be confirmed from a parish record.
Just thinking the record is to good to be true. I must have my skeptical head on today. :-\
Jenny
-
Hi Sue
That is a very interesting one ...just for reference
1881
Home garden Cary van (sic ;D)\
John Eastwood head mar 65 horse keeper b Sussex ??
HARRIET wife 63 b hawker ISLINGTON
Alis dau unm 18 b Bexley Kent
Amelia Breeds gr dau 6 b St Marys Cray
/
John Eastwood head mar 42 b Sittinbourn (sic)
Ann wife 40 b Bearley, Kent
Harriet dau unm 19 b dartford
John son unm 17 b Dartford
Caroline dau unm 14 b dartford
could Elias have changed his name to John ??
Harriet b1818 Islington is she Harriet JENNINGS?
Hi Jenny ...The info of Olivia Jennings is submitted ...it is her BIRTH DATE and not Christening .... it also confirms the marriage to William Spencer that I had found earlier ...to me it looks like someone has ordered her marriage cert and her birth cert and submitted it to the LDS
this is what I found ; Marriage
Olive Hedges = William Spencer
dec q1871
Romford
vol 4a p 215
IGI= 2 OCT 1871 St Andrews, Romford, Essex
deb
-
Right. am In the middle of cooking dinner at mo. but am going to order Olive HEDGES birth cert. and clear this up. Just to save me going through the whole thread again can you tell me do we have a Free BMD reference for Olives birth registration.
-
hi Jenny :)
Olive Hedges
mar q 1851
North Aylesford Kent
5 490
deb
-
Thank you Deb. I will order that in the next 30 mins. Do you know of any other Certificates that I could order that would help in the search. just as well get any others while I'm at it.
Jenny
-
Hi again :)
Following up on John and Harriet Eastwood ...this is them in 1851
Deptford
John Eastwood head mar 35 Hawker of mats and Beehives b Sussex, 5 Ashes
Harriet wife 35 b Islington
George son 14 b Kent ??
John son 11 b Frindsted
Mark son 8 b Hoo
Caroline dau 5 b Hadlow
just seen you post jenny ..i will have a look
deb
-
Hi Jenny ...do you remember our discussion on page 3
Hi Jenny
Thanks
and yes, it is very common to have all this confusion with Gypsies/travellers, especially since they are not always found on the census returns. Also a lot of them did not know where they were born , which obviously adds to the 'chaos' LOL
Re; Eliza b Herts or Islington ... I think that the easier but obviously expensive way to go , would be to order the birth certs of an older and younger child.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if say Henry or Rosa's cert revealed that their mum was the Staines girl ...you would then have a marriage cert that you could order to see who James' (one of the suspected brothers) dad was ... ;D
I am still hoping that one of the censuses will hold the clue
deb :)
Yes I see that sounds like an excellent idea. I will do that.
As you say might find more on the Census yet so will hold off from ordering for a very little while.
With your help we are forming a plan which is much more than I had a few days ago.
Remember ...Eliza states different places of birth on different censuses ...one Islington the other Stansted Herts?..
there was also a big gap between some of the children ...making room possibly for a second marriage ...
deb
-
yes I remember. So need an older one as well but which. Do we have a FreeBMD reference for any of the older ones. that would make life easy. ;D
-
Hi again :)
Following up on John and Harriet Eastwood ...this is them in 1851
Deptford
John Eastwood head mar 35 Hawker of mats and Beehives b Sussex, 5 Ashes
Harriet wife 35 b Islington
George son 14 b Kent ??
John son 11 b Frindsted
Mark son 8 b Hoo
Caroline dau 5 b Hadlow
Blimey ... on the page prior and living next to them
Gloucester Place
Joseph JENNINGS head mar 45 rat catcher b ISLINGTON
Lydia 45 wife b Deptford
Joseph 18 b Enfield Middlesex
John 15 b Enfield
Edward 13 b Deptford
William 8 b Deptford
Charles 1 Stepney Middlesex
Sarah mother wid 76 b HERTS Hodesden?
deb :)
will look for birth reg
-
Thanks Deb...... When im late kids say to their mates " bet mum's on pc again" Then they tell me
off when i get there ;D ;
Oh.......... wondered if Harriet was the one we wanted :) Great find of the 1851 Deb :)
Sue
-
Sue
My kids always say ...'mum's talking to dead people again!!!! " LOL
Jenny .....this is what we have for 1851
1861Elsenham
List of persons not in houses
caravan
James Hedger mar 45 Mat maker b Plumbsted
Eliza wife 45 hawker Middlesex Islington
Selina 21 b Kent Budyar ?
Elias son 18 ..could he be Golias? hawker b Eltham/Elsenham? Kent
Elijah son 16 hawker b Stroud Kent
Alfred son 14 b Hoo Kent
..Oliph (sic) dau 10 b Chalk....... this is who you are ordering as well Olive b 1851 d/o James and Eliza (Jennings)
Henry 5 b Essex Moreton
Rosa 3 b Essex Chelmsford
cannot find a Rosa ...but did find this
Female Hedges
jun q 1857
Chelmsford Essex
4a 143
will look for Henry ....
deb
-
Hi again :)
Following up on John and Harriet Eastwood ...this is them in 1851
Deptford
John Eastwood head mar 35 Hawker of mats and Beehives b Sussex, 5 Ashes
Harriet wife 35 b Islington
George son 14 b Kent ??
John son 11 b Frindsted
Mark son 8 b Hoo
Caroline dau 5 b Hadlow
Blimey ... on the page prior and living next to them
Gloucester Place
Joseph JENNINGS head mar 45 rat catcher b ISLINGTON
Lydia 45 wife b Deptford
Joseph 18 b Enfield Middlesex
John 15 b Enfield
Edward 13 b Deptford
William 8 b Deptford
Charles 1 Stepney Middlesex
Sarah mother wid 76 b HERTS Hodesden?
deb :)
will look for birth reg
Blimey and WOW Deb this is great news. Jumping up and down here. ;D
-
All thanks to Sue who found them in 1881 ....... ;D Bravo Sue!!!! :D
-
A BIG round of applause for Sue. Well done Sue and Thank you. I just so got the best team helping me here. If we can't get to the bottom of this no one can. ;D They should have one of these little smilies that jumps up and down, that would be me. But they haven't so I will make do with this :) :D ;D :-*
-
Here's the family in 1871 RG10 / 885 / 8 / 8
John Eastwood head age 55 b London
Harriet wife age 52 b Sussex
James son age 16 b Kent
Bratian dau age 14 b Essex
William son age 11 b Kent
Alice dau age 8 b Kent
Address Heath Lane Caravan, Dartford, cant make out John's occ looks like lic victualler ???
And next to them, wonder if name should be Eastwood
John Heastwood head age 32 b Bredgar, Kent, occ horse dealer
Ann wife age 32 b Bexley, Kent, occ hawker
Matilda dau age 11 b Crockenhill, Kent
Harriet dau age 9 b Dartford, Kent
John son age 7 b Dartford
Caroline dau age 5 b Wanstead
Living in caravan
Sue
Great find Deb ;D ;D
-
wooohooooo LOL ...I have to get dressed /... it's 12;12pm here :o 8)
bbs
-
Do you need this in 1841? Name spelt Jenins
HO107 / 488 / 6/40/ 26
Joseph Jenins age30 b Kent
Lydia age 30 b Kent
Joseph age 8 b Kent
Sarah age 5 b Kent
John age 3 (no pob)
Address Church Street, St Paul Deptford
Sue
Added .......... Thanks for the nice comments ;D
-
Do you need this in 1841? Name spelt Jenins
HO107 / 488 / 6/40/ 26
Joseph Jenins age30 b Kent
Lydia age 30 b Kent
Joseph age 8 b Kent
Sarah age 5 b Kent
John age 3 (no pob)
Address Church Street, St Paul Deptford
Sue
Added .......... Thanks for the nice comments ;D
No sue we haven't got that one. Thank you. ;D
-
OK now we have (sorry but thinking aloud here again)
Frances JENNINGS 1814 and a possible Eliza JENNINGS 1816 who both married two HEDGES brothers.
Tell me if I am correct here...
We now have a Joseph JENNINGS 1806 who is a possible brother to Frances JENNINGS 1814
Joseph has his widowed mother Sarah JENNINGS 1775 with him in the 1851 census.
Just let me know if I get anything wrong, don't want to get confused. It's so easy these days. ;D
-
yep ...that's how I see it, Jenny...
also we have a Harriet Eastwood born 1818 Islington with John Eastwood living next door to Joseph JENNINGS b Islington. Has EliAS EASTWOOD = Harriet Jennings changed his name to John? cannot find any Elias Eastwood married to a Harriet ...also there is only one mention of Elias Eastwood on IGI and that is the marriage .
Also the mother , Sarah was born HERTS ...remember how Eliza (Jennings?) married to James Hedges stated HERTS and Islington as POB?
deb
-
yep ...that's how I see it, Jenny...
also we have a Harriet Eastwood born 1818 Islington with John Eastwood living next door to Joseph JENNINGS b Islington. Has EliAS EASTWOOD = Harriet Jennings changed his name to John? cannot find any Elias Eastwood married to a Harriet ...also there is only one mention of Elias Eastwood on IGI and that is the marriage .
Also the mother , Sarah was born HERTS ...remember how Eliza (Jennings?) married to James Hedges stated HERTS and Islington as POB?
deb
Thanks I have it all clear in my head, thats always good news.
Was thinking perhaps John JENNINGS was always John and only gave the name Elias for his marriage, was he trying to hide something or it could of been a simple mistake. Could it be checked on ancestry or somewhere to see if a mistake has been made or weather it actually says Elias. Can't remember where I found the record now. ??? Ahhh might have been cityark will go see if I can find it.
-
Jen...
Harriet JENNINGS = Elias EASTWOOD
so did Elias EASTWOOD not Jennings change his name?
IGI has their marriage
Elias EASTWOOD =
HARRIET JENNINGS Marriage: 28 SEP 1835 Yalding, Kent
deb :)
-
Can't find it on cityark, must have been on ancestry. I don't have access at the moment so can't check. Sorry.
-
What am I like today. Brain scrambled ::) Right Elias EASTWOOD not JENNINGS.
-
We should be able to find the mother Sarah in 1841 but i cant find her ???
Just thought it might help.
Sue
-
girls ...
have to go out for a bit ...will return later and by then I'm sure you will have it all sorted and all the connections made and brick walls stomped down ;D ;D 8)
deb
-
We will try Deb ;D ;D ;D
-
We should be able to find the mother Sarah in 1841 but i cant find her ???
Just thought it might help.
Sue
Bye Deb catch you later
Sue there is a Sarah JENNINGS on Ancestry on the 1841 Census in Herts born 1771 but I can't view it have you looked at it.
Jenny
-
1841 HO107 / 437 / 2/7/ 9
Sarah Jennings age 70 b Herts
Mary Phillips age 70 b Herts
Address Levels Green, Munden
Both done as Paupers
Sue
-
Well thats me all out of ideas on what to do next. :(
On a positive, we have done fantastically well today. I have ordered the birth cert. of Olive HEDGES which should arrive in a week or so. That should finally tell me if Eliza her mother was a JENNINGS as I suspect.
Sometimes I wish my family could have been more obliging like my husbands. They all lived in one area. Generation after generation way back to the 1700's. They never went anywhere or had any adventures.
No that would be boring wouldn't it.
How about your family Sue, Were they so difficult.
-
hi ..back for 10 mins then have to go again ...
I wonder if we can systematically work through the children of the Hedges/Jennings and Eastwoods and see who they married ...you never know what we will find ....
or maybe we can find them lodging/living together somewhere ....
Can't find the Jennings or eastwoods in 1861 ...I see Mark Eastwood stayed a hawker/horse dealer and married Flora ... saw the marriage now can't remember.
deb :)
-
My fathers side was quite easy and i got back to early 1700s so far ;D
My mothers is harder. They started off in Somerset and ended up in Oxford but in between
travelled round working on farms. Never stayed in one place very long and are hard to track down ::) :)
Had no luck at all with Sarah ::)
Oh Debs thought of someone to look up ;D ;D ;D
Was just going to ask what we still need ;D
Sue
-
Can we have update on children please, names, dob and pob :)
-
Sounds good to me Deb.
I think part of the secret lies in the 1851 Census and the lack of some of the Hedges being found.
Not sure I can explain this, I touched on it earlier.
In East Malling in 1854 we have 3 deaths.
Deaths Sep 1854
Hedges Susan Malling 2a 269
Hedges Thomas Malling 2a 269
Hedges William Malling 2a 270
I think 2 of these deaths Susan and William could be the parents of the 4 brothers.
Why?
Well I am hoping the death certs will arrive tomorrow, but Susan was 80 years old and Eliza HEDGES was presant at death.
William was 73 years old James HEDGES was presant at death Chatham.
Thomas was aged 1 and the son of James HEDGES.
They are all listed as sojourning at East malling this is according to the Burial records. Where William has been buried under the name of James HEDGES in error, possibly due to his son being James.
Death for them is listed as Cholera, Typhus Fever and Inflammation of lungs. I think there must have been an epidemic of something nasty either in East malling or within the family during this time that took the youngest and the eldest. Just wondering how I can discover more. I'm not far from East Malling perhaps maidstone archives would hold the key. Any Ideas
-
I think my point is if I can find William and Susan who died in East Malling in 1854 on the 1851 census wouldn't that be a find. They were obviously with James and Eliza in 1854 were they with one of the others that are missing from the 1851 census.
which of the brothers do we have on the 1851 census can someone up date me.
added...
I have Job and James on the 1851 but not William and Thomas.
-
Can we have update on children please, names, dob and pob :)
This is what I have so far for HEDGES
Thomas and Eden had following children
Elizabeth 1826
Thomas 1826
Jane 1830
Sarah 1832
Eden 1834
Frederick 1839
Elvenor 1842
Sampson 1846
James and Eliza had the following children
Esther 1835 Stone Kent
Sophia 1839 Plumbsted Kent married John ARNOLD in Romford Essex 1858
Selena 1840 Lidsing Kent
Elias 1844 Aylesford Kent or Albingdon Berks Married Alice REYNOLDS Place Unknown Abt. 1864
Elijah 1845 Cliffe Kent
Alfred 1848 Cliffe Kent
Olive 1851 Chalk kent Married William SPENCER In Romford Essex 1871
Henry 1856 Maldon Essex
Rosa 1858 Chelmsford Essex
William and Frances had the following children
William 1832 Chatham Kent Married Eliza CLARK 1858 Chatham Kent
Sampson 1839 Chatham or Gillingham Kent Married Bridget FRIDAY Place Unknown and Margaret PERFECT in 1858 Chatham Kent
Joseph 1843 North Aylesford Kent
Alfred 1845 Borstal Kent married Eliza LEVONS in 1865 Chatham Kent
John 1849 Frindsbury Kent Married Jane COOLEY in 1878 Gillingham Kent
Job and Rosanna had the following children
William 1838 Tonbridge Wells Kent
Harriet 1840 Barming Kent
Job 1843 Breadhurst Kent Married Pheobe GUMBLE in Romford Essex 1864
James 1845 Cliffe Kent
Jeremiah 1848 Sussex Married Sarah Ann EASTWOOD Romford Essex 1870
I think thats right :o
-
Oh.... you have Elias getting married in Kent or Abingdon, i have Abingdon PRs ;D
Do you know what date and i can see if i can find it :)
Sue
Added... Or is it b Abingdon ???
-
For EASTWOOD I am not sure I got them all but here is what I have so far
John and Harriet had the following children
John 1840 Sittingbourne Kent Married Ann
Mark 1843 Hoo Kent
Caroline 1846 Hadlow
James 1855 Kent
Bratian 1857 Essex
William 1860 Kent
Alis or Alice 1863 Bexley Kent
I am not sure what to put for JENNINGS perhaps Deb can help with this one when she has time. ;D
-
Oh.... you have Elias getting married in Kent or Abingdon, i have Abingdon PRs ;D
Do you know what date and i can see if i can find it :)
Sue
Added... Or is it b Abingdon ???
Sorry Sue the places are the birth places not the marriage places. I didn't realize you needed the marriage places I can find them and add them give me 10 minutes.
-
Can we have update on children please, names, dob and pob :)
This is what I have so far for HEDGES
Thomas and Eden had following children
Elizabeth 1826
Thomas 1826
Jane 1830
Sarah 1832
Eden 1834
Frederick 1839
Elvenor 1842
Sampson 1846
James and Eliza had the following children
Esther 1835 Stone Kent
Sophia 1839 Plumbsted Kent married John ARNOLD in Romford Essex 1858
Selena 1840 Lidsing Kent
Elias 1844 Aylesford Kent or Albingdon Berks Married Alice REYNOLDS Place Unknown Abt. 1864
Elijah 1845 Cliffe Kent
Alfred 1848 Cliffe Kent
Olive 1851 Chalk kent Married William SPENCER In Romford Essex 1871
Henry 1856 Maldon Essex
Rosa 1858 Chelmsford Essex
William and Frances had the following children
William 1832 Chatham Kent Married Eliza CLARK 1858 Chatham Kent
Sampson 1839 Chatham or Gillingham Kent Married Bridget FRIDAY Place Unknown and Margaret PERFECT in 1858 Chatham Kent
Joseph 1843 North Aylesford Kent
Alfred 1845 Borstal Kent married Eliza LEVONS in 1865 Chatham Kent
John 1849 Frindsbury Kent Married Jane COOLEY in 1878 Gillingham Kent
Job and Rosanna had the following children
William 1838 Tonbridge Wells Kent
Harriet 1840 Barming Kent
Job 1843 Breadhurst Kent Married Pheobe GUMBLE in Romford Essex 1864
James 1845 Cliffe Kent
Jeremiah 1848 Sussex Married Sarah Ann EASTWOOD Romford Essex 1870
I think thats right :o
I have added the place and date of marriage where known
Jenny
-
Thats great Jenny. ;D
Will be off soon but will search tomorrow and see if marriages can turn up any clues ;D
We must be missing something somewhere, the link to these families ::)
With Debs help we must find something ???
Sue
-
A possible marriage for Esther Hedges :)
Dec 1858 to William Arnold or Thomas Wheel/ Wheele at Romford
Vol 4a Page 156
Its a start i hope :)
-
Thats great Sue, thank you. I'm off too got children demanding my attention.
Jenny
-
ooo I have found James and Eliza in 1861
Elsenham
List of persons not in houses
caravan
James Hedger mar 45 Mat maker b Plumbstead
Eliza wife 45 hawker Middlesex Islington
Selina 21 b Kent Budyar ?
Elias son 18 ..could he be Golias? hawker b Eltham/Elsenham? Kent
Elijah son 16 hawker b Stroud Kent
Alfred son 14 b Hoo Kent
Oliph dau 10 .... Olive maybe LOL ...b Chalk Kent
Henry 5 b Essex Moreton
Rosa 3 b Essex Chelmsford
Just looking at who were the other peeps in tents/caravans around them I spotted this family because of wife's POB
next 'door' to the Hedges
John ARNOLD head mar 22 mat maker b Chiselhurst
Maria Sophia wife 22 hawker b PLUMSTEAD KENT
James 2 Kent ?
John 1 Stroud
taking a chance I looked at marriages and guess what ...wooooohoooooo
Mary Sophia Hedges = John Arnold
Mar q 1858
Romford Essex
Vol 4a p 73
Blimey there has to be some clue somewhere , usually Gypsy families have everyone around ...
deb
-
Morning Jenny and Deb :)
Oh......... as Deb said must be a link somewhere ;D
I will be on and off today but will pop back to search when i can :)
Esther and Sophia may have both married Arnolds then and in the same year and place :o
Sue
-
William and Frances Hedges Son Joseph Died
N Aylesford Dec. Q 1844 5, 313
So no marriage or children for him.
-
Hi Sue Good to see you back. I'm here for a few hours only, got to go out this afternoon to Ikea and buy daughter a dining table. A strange request for a Christmas present. ;D
-
Son of James and Eliza
Marriages Jun 1870
Dartnell Ellen Sophia Romford 4a 133
HEDGES Elijah Romford 4a 133
STONE Mary Romford 4a 133
Could have married either one
Added... Do we have Elijah on a census anywhere
-
I was lookinf at same thing Jenny ;D
What about this in 1891 in Cheshunt, Herts
RG12 / 1091 / 182 / 23
Has Elizars Hedges ( Elias Hedges) age 52 b Dartford and wife Alice
Have we got this?
-
No I don't think we have any 1891 census returns. So that would be an interesting one.
-
1881 ;D
RG11 / 1742 / 22 / 37
Elias Hedges head age 37 b Alresford Kent, occ lic hawker
Alice wife age age 35 b St Marys Cray, Kent
Alvy dau age 16 b Dartford
Odene dau age 14 b Southfleet, Kent
Elias son age 12 b Kitnson, Kent
Elijah son age 10 b Erith, Kent
Lottie dau age 7 b Raleigh, Kent
Thomas son age 5 b Sittingborne, Kent
Henry son age 4 b Woodford, Kent
Phoebe dau age 3 b Wethersfield, Kent
Celia dau age 0 b Romford, Essex
Address Caravan, Navestock
Have we got this?
-
1891 in Cheshunt, Herts
RG12 / 1091 / 182 / 23
Elias Hedges head age 52 b Dartford, occ hawker
Alice wife age 50 b Dartford
Elizars son age 22 b Dartford, occ hawker
Elijah son age 20 b Dartford, occ hawker
Charlotte dau age 18 b Dartford, occ hawker
Phoebe dau age 16 b Romford
Eliza dau age 13 b Romford
living in caravan
Next to them also in caravan
Alfred Cumbers age 31 b Romford
Albey wife age 28 b Dartford
Eliezer son age 6 b Dartford
Eliza dau age 3 b South End Essex
Do these fit anywhere ???
-
No I don't think we have. We do have 1861 and 1891 for Elias and Alice.
I have just received the Death Certificates From my cousin Peter for the Three deaths in East Malling. William and Susan were man and wife. Looks like we have the parents of the brothers. Just need to find more on William and Susan. They must be on the census somewhere. Surely they didn't miss both the 1841 and 1851
William HEDGES Died East Malling 13 Sept 1854 aged 73 Laborer of Fever 4 days Inflammation of lungs 3 days James HEDGES present at death
Susan HEDGES Died East Malling 22 Sept 1854 aged 80 Wife of William HEDGES of Typhus Fever 6 days Eliza Hedges Present at death.
Thomas HEDGES Died East Malling 25 Sept 1854 aged 1 Son of James HEDGES Laborer died of Cholera 12 hours James HEDGES present at death
-
Oh and what about this in 1901 ;D
Enfield, Middlesex RG13 / 1272 / 50/ 42
Elijah Hedges head age 33 b Dartford, occ hawker
Elizabeth wife age 26 b Hepworth, Suffolk
Living in caravan
And in next caravan
Thomas Thipthorpe head age 41 b Walkwell, Essex, occ hawker
Olive wife age 34b Southlea, Kent
Alice dau age 11 b Romford
Elvey dau age 9 b Cheshunt
John son age 7 b Uckerton, Essex
Albert son age 6 b Cheshunt
Eliza dau age 4 b Romford
Olive dau age 2 b Cheshunt
Tom son age 2 months b Ware, Herts
Did we have a Olive somewhere ???
Added........ This may be Elias's son, Elijah
-
Gotta go for a while Jenny but i will be back ;D ;D
Sue :)
-
morning girls :)
Jenny .... Elias (s/o james Hedges and Eliza) And Alice Hedges belong to Janice ... Alvy/Alby Their daughter married Alfred CUMBERS.... you had an old email from Sylvia re this family
deb
-
Yes that right it will be of interest to Janice I hope she is still following the thread. You never know what might pop up that will be of use to her.
-
Hi
William Hedges who died in 1854 age 73 could he be William (65) the seat bottomer in prison in 1841?
will have another look for Susan/nah
deb :)
-
I have just been doing a little research into East Malling. There was a serious outbreak of Cholera in 1854 in East Malling and it looks like my HEDGES were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This page gives an idea of the problem in Kent and East Malling is included.
http://www.hereshistorykent.org.uk/displaytheme.cfm?pagetype=Themes&themeID=189&category=Health%20and%20Medicine%20in%20Kent
Yes Deb I believe he is likely to be him. Just need to find more info on this elusive couple William and Susan. There must be more on them somewhere.
-
Eden Hedges = Henry Smith or John Tickner
mar q 1856
Guildford Surrey
2a 61
I think it may be John Tickner ..there is a family in 1861, Eden Tickner age 26 with husband John and children living in Shere ....thjey are still there in 1871 ...lots more children ...although he is an ag lab .... no sign of them moving around :-\
no sign of Susan yet
-
That must be Eden. Looks like they Settled Perhaps John Tickner wasn't a traveller. Can you get the details of the family so I can log them all on my tree. Deb
I have no access to Ancestry at the moment but should have in the next few weeks I have ordered an up to date version of my family Tree program I use. Mine is very old, and will be getting 6 months free access to Ancestry with it.
-
Hi ...
Found this on IGI ....submitted
Eden Hedges = John Tickner
13 JAN 1856 Shere, Surrey
1861
Shere surrey
John tickner head mar 28 ag lab b Surrey ?
EDEN wife 26 b London
Jane 4 , Shere
Eliza 3, "
Elizabeth 1, "
1871
same place same parents :)
Jane 1857 ..not present
Eliza 12
Elizabeth 10
Eilena 7
Sarah 6
Eden 3
John T 1
-
Do we already have this
ELIAS HEDGES
Christening: 06 SEP 1868 West Farleigh, Kent, England
Parents:
Father: ELIAS HEDGES Family
Mother: ALICE
ELVEY HEDGES ( Is this Alby or Olive) Christening: 09 SEP 1866 West Farleigh, Kent, England
Parents:
Father: ELIAS HEDGES Family
Mother: ALICE
NANCY HEDGES (I already have this but looks like they was West Farleigh quite a lot) Christening: 25 SEP 1870 West Farleigh, Kent, England
Father: JOB HEDGES Family
Mother: PHEBE
ROSA HEDGES Pedigree
Christening: 11 SEP 1864 West Farleigh, Kent, England
Father: WILLIAM HEDGES Family (Think I'm getting William Phobia. Who is this married to an Olive?) Mother: OLIFF
-
oo don't know who the mother, Oliff is :-\
I posted my last message by mistake ...so here is the rest of the Tickner censuses;
1881
Suitton Place Shere ...they have not moved at all :)
John Tickner head mar 48 ag lab b Shere
Eden wife 45 b Middlesex
John son 11
James 8 Shere
William Hewsey lodger 24 ag lab b Shere
1891
Sutton
John Tickner head 58 b Shere
Eden wife 58 b Notholl Middlesex
Eden dau 23 unm general servant
Alfred son unm 19 ag lab
James son 18 unm ag lab
Maud Longhurst gr dau 6 b Wotton
death
Eden Tickner
born 1834
died sept q 1897
age 63
Guildford Surrey
2a 47
deb
-
another child to William Hedges and Oliff
William Hedges
11 SEP 1864 West Farleigh, Kent ...same day as Rosa !!!
-
Oh and what about this in 1901 ;D
Enfield, Middlesex RG13 / 1272 / 50/ 42
Elijah Hedges head age 33 b Dartford, occ hawker
Elizabeth wife age 26 b Hepworth, Suffolk
Living in caravan
And in next caravan
Thomas Thipthorpe head age 41 b Walkwell, Essex, occ hawker
Olive wife age 34b Southlea, Kent
Alice dau age 11 b Romford
Elvey dau age 9 b Cheshunt
John son age 7 b Uckerton, Essex
Albert son age 6 b Cheshunt
Eliza dau age 4 b Romford
Olive dau age 2 b Cheshunt
Tom son age 2 months b Ware, Herts
Did we have a Olive somewhere ???
Added........ This may be Elias's son, Elijah
marriage
Olive Hedges = Thomas Thipthorp
Dec q 1887
Rochford Essex
4a 603
-
Thank You for that Deb
I am wondering who this William and Oliff could be now.
This is a long shot I know but wonder if this could be a Sister for William HEDGES 1776/81
MARY HEDGES
Female
Christening: 09 JUL 1768 West Malling, Kent, England
Parents:
Father: EDWARD HEDGES Family
Mother: MARY
Well I have got to go out for now but will be back this evening if I can get my daughter away from Ikea at a reasonable time. ;D
Jenny
-
Oh and what about this in 1901 ;D
Enfield, Middlesex RG13 / 1272 / 50/ 42
Elijah Hedges head age 33 b Dartford, occ hawker
Elizabeth wife age 26 b Hepworth, Suffolk
Living in caravan
And in next caravan
Thomas Thipthorpe head age 41 b Walkwell, Essex, occ hawker
Olive wife age 34b Southlea, Kent
Alice dau age 11 b Romford
Elvey dau age 9 b Cheshunt
John son age 7 b Uckerton, Essex
Albert son age 6 b Cheshunt
Eliza dau age 4 b Romford
Olive dau age 2 b Cheshunt
Tom son age 2 months b Ware, Herts
Did we have a Olive somewhere ???
Added........ This may be Elias's son, Elijah
marriage
Olive Hedges = Thomas Thipthorp
Dec q 1887
Rochford Essex
4a 603
Surely this Olive 1867 daughter to Elias and Alice
Added Got to go just as we are making headway Ahhhh want to stay but can't. I will log all this in when I get back.
-
Ok im back for a while ;D ;D
So are we looking for Susan Hedges? Do we know what year she was born and where ???
Who else are we searching, lost track again now ::)
Sue
-
1881
Caravan
Elias Hedges 37 mar licensed hawker b Aylesford Kent>>>> Janice's GGG Grandfather
Alice wife 35 b Kent St mary Alice nee Reynolds
Alvy/Alby 16 b Dartford Kent >>>>> Janice's GG Grandmother = Alfred Cumbers
sibs;
Olive 14 b Southfleet Kent= Thomas Thipthorp
Elias 12 b Kirnson Kent
Elijah 10 b Erith Kent
Lottie 7 b Sussex Raleigh aka Charlotte = George Broom
Thomas 5 Kent Sittingbourne
Henry 4 b Essex Woodford
Phoebe 3 b Essex Weathersfield
Celia 11months b essex Romford
-
Hi Sue
this is her, so bc 1774
Susan HEDGES Died East Malling 22 Sept 1854 aged 80 Wife of William HEDGES of Typhus Fever 6 days Eliza Hedges Present at death.
I had found a Susan Hedges but she lived till the age of 87 ...i think I will recheck that one ...maybe not ...I think this one was alive in 1861.
deb
-
Deb....... have we got Susan in 1841?
-
re Children of Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds
all of these on same page for marriage
June q 1892 Medway Kent
Charlotte Hedges
Henry Hedges...could he be s/o Elias and Alice?
George Broom
Rose Ann Carter
1901
Chatham, 17 Perry Street
george Broom 29 lab b Rochester
Charlotte wife 26 b Chatham :-\
George 7 b Chatham
Frederick 5 Rochester
Elizabeth 4 Rochester
can't see Henry and Rose Ann on the 1901
deb
sue ...we don't have Susan anywhere :-\
-
OK... So here are some possibles in 1841
HO107 / 707 / 9/15/ 14
Susan Hodges says b Middlesex age 65 in St Lukes Workhouse, Shoreditch ???
HO107 / 465 / 1/9/ 9 living in Adisham, Kent......... dont know where this is ???
Susanna Hodges age 65 b Kent
Joseph Hodges age 55 b Kent, occ ag lab
Will carry on searching ;D
-
sue.....
Look at these names on one page; Blimey :o ..did a cousin marry another cousin?
Marriage
Sept q 1894 Rochford Essex
Charlotte BIBBY .... big gypsy family
Elijah HEDGES
Albert HEDGES
Rosa HEDGES
deb
Eeekkk we have no idea where Susan was born or where she would be in 1841 ...In 1851 I would assume that she would be in Kent, Malling area
-
It looks like it Deb :) Cousins ohhhhh....... Need to search further
Got to get kids ::) Peace shattered, wont be long ;D
;D ;D ;D
-
Hi
Just found this on the 1881
Henry HEDGES unm 61 HAWKER b Kinston Surrey staying at 9 Church Row, Common lodging house,Wandsworth, London
-
Have we got this?
1901 RG13 / 733 / 73 / 12
William Hedges head age 32 b Chatham, occ hawker
Rose A wife age 29 b Northfleet, Kent
Rose A dau age 12 b Chatham
Henry son age 10 b Chatham
Eliza dau age 8 b Chatham
Mary A dau age 5 b Strood, Kent
Address 1 Cuckows Passage, Pier Road, Gillingham
Sue
-
Eden Hedges = Henry Smith or John Tickner
mar q 1856
Guildford Surrey
2a 61
I think it may be John Tickner ..there is a family in 1861, Eden Tickner age 26 with husband John and children living in Shere ....thjey are still there in 1871 ...lots more children ...although he is an ag lab .... no sign of them moving around :-\
no sign of Susan yet
There were Tickners in Chertsey in Surrey. They weren't of a travelling family though, as far as I am aware.
In fact, there's many Tickners throughout Surrey, many going back to the 16th century.
-
Hi James :)
I see you are one of us ...going from the kent board (Corke/Cooley) and this one .... ;D
Is John Tickner one of yours?
deb
-
Deb..... Can you remember if we have John and Ada Eastwood in 1901 ???
Do we still need Eastwoods?
Sue
-
I don't mean to be a pain... but:
I have a John Tickner, christned July 1826, Shere, Surrey. He was son of Charles Harris and Amelia Tickner.
Charles Harris was born 1782 in Cranleigh, Surrey and died 1843. He married Mary Tickner in 1802 in Shere. Mary was buried in 1812, Shere. This couple had four children, all surnamed Harris.
Now Charles Harris and Amelia Tickner were not married. They had four children:
1. Henry Tickner alias Harris, chr. Aug. 1816, Shere
2. Jane Tickner alias Harris, chr. Jan. 1819, Shere
3. John Tickner, chr. Jul. 1826, Shere
4. Emma Tickner, chr. Jun 1831, Shere
The parents of Charles Harris were David Harris (chr. 1 January 1752) and Ann Cumber.
Coincidence?
-
Hi James :)
I see you are one of us ...going from the kent board (Corke/Cooley) and this one .... ;D
Is John Tickner one of yours?
deb
Not exactly one of mine, no.
I just have an interest in Chertsey families, due to my own ancestors coming from there. I have a massive tree than goes everywhere and Tickners appear in it. They're no relation to me though.
-
ahh okay
The John Tickner we have is bc 1835 Shere ..he marries Eden HEDGES
we have an Alvey/Albey HEDGES b 1865 Kent, d/o Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds marrying an Alfred CUMBERS
Oh Myyyy ... all these little interconnections !!! LOL ;D
deb
-
ahh okay
The John Tickner we have is bc 1835 Shere ..he marries Eden HEDGES
we have an Alvey/Albey HEDGES b 1865 Kent, d/o Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds marrying an Alfred CUMBER
Oh Myyyy ... all these little interconnections !!! LOL ;D
deb
Yours is Cumbers, not Cumber.
However, there could still be a link.
Born in 1835? There's no John Tickner listed as christened in Shere for that time. There's the above one in 1826, one in 1848 and one 1814. My one in 1826 seems most likely the right one.
By the way, Amelia Tickner was the sister of Mary Tickner (Charles Harris' wife) and both were daughters of Job Tickner and Jane.
-
Oh............ Hi James ;D ;D ;D
Sue
-
Deb..... Can you remember if we have John and Ada Eastwood in 1901 ???
Do we still need Eastwoods?
Sue
Sue ...I have no idea .... I just wish we could find William b 1816 and Frances/Fanny b Islington on the 1851 or 1841 ...I am sure the clues are in all the censuses we cannot find.
Actually I am quite amazed that we do not see them all together more often....
Do we have all the marriages of the children of the 4 'brothers'?
my computer is on the 'go-slow' ...arrghhhhh ...I,m tearing my hair out!!!!! :P ;D
deb
-
Gotta post incase we have't got it ;D ;D
1901 RG13 / 742 / 15 / 22
John Eastwood head age 36 b NK, occ hawker (gipsys)
Ada wife age 30 b NK, occ hawker
John son age 16 b KN, occ hawker
Bennie son age 12 b KN, occ hawker
Walter son age 11 b KN
Thomas son age 9 b KN
Esther dau age 7 b KN
William son age 4 b KN
Address Caravan, New Hythe, East Malling
Next to them is William Eastwood and wife Esther and children in caravan ;D
-
1891
Sutton
John Tickner head 58 b Shere
Eden wife 58 b Notholl Middlesex
Eden dau 23 unm general servant
Alfred son unm 19 ag lab
James son 18 unm ag lab
Maud Longhurst gr dau 6 b Wotton
I have Longhursts in my tree as well... I don't know how Maud links in though.
Also, could Eden's birth place be Northolt?
-
Oh and could someone update me with the Thomas Hedges and Eden family, please, to save me ploughing through all these pages to find what I require?
Cheers.
It's so I can add Eden Hedges' family to my database.
Regards,
James.
-
ooo Hold on James ...
will try to find them .... BBS
-
Thanks.
I am off out in about an hour, so need to rush. I am sure the answer will be here upon my return though.
James.
-
1841 - Oakwood, Wotton, Dorking, Surrey
Thomas HEDGES 40 ag lab
Eden 40
Elizabeth 15
Thomas 15
Jane 10
Sarah 8
Eden 6
Frederick 2
Elizabeth 30
John 4
Maria SIMMON 60 traveller
All listed as not born in Surrey
HO107/1081 folio 24 page 15
.........................
1861
Eden HEDGES mother mar 62 pauper b.Crawley Surrey
Frederick son unm 22 ag lab b.N H*l*n Middlesex
Elvenor dau unm 19 house servant out of place b.Betchworth Surrey
Sampson son 15 b.Crawley Surrey
Phoebe DAVIS gdau 9 b.Blackheath
Vansloe gson 6 b.Blackheath
Kezia gdau 3 b.East Peckham Kent
RG9/426 folio 69 page 22
.........................
1871 - Falkland Rd, Dorking, Surrey
Emanuel DAVIS head mar 50 lab b.Lewisham Kent
Jane wife 41 laundress b.Lewisham
W son 16 b.Lewisham
Rosia (Kezia?) dau 13 b.Lewisham
Elizabeth dau 6 b.Dorking
Jethro son 3 b.Dorking
/
James DALTON head mar 32 lab b.Dorking
Sarah wife 33 b.Seal Kent
Elizabeth LAWDER boarder 11 b.Plaistow Kent
James DALTON son 7 b.Bletchingly Surrey
Alice LOWDER dau 6 b.West Malden Kent
/
Frederick HEDGES lodger unm 31 lab b.Middlesex
RG10/829 folio 78 page 1
............................
Thomas HEDGES married Eden BREWER at Hadlow, Kent 1820 http://www.familysearch.org
Emanuel DAVIS married Jane HEDGIS at Croydon 1864 http://www.familysearch.org
Interestingly, the Sarah DALTON late LAWDER nee CORK is part of the CORK/COOLEY family on the Kent board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338879.0.html
Casalguidi :)
I have been working from Casalguidi's info ...unfortuantely Thomas is not listed with them in 1861 and I am still unable to find them in 1851...as a matter of fact , I don't think we have many Hedges on the 1851....
Maybe we should summarise where everyone is during the different censuses ... ::) :o ;D
The only Susan* Hedges I can find bc 1774 is still alive at the age of 87..she was born Wiltshire arrghhhhhhh tearing my hair out !!! ;D
-
Thanks, it's much appreciated.
-
I'm sure you have this:
Eden Brewer, born 18 October 1802, chr. 24 October 1802, Crawley, Sussex, daughter of John Brewer and Elizabeth.
Eden Brewer married Thomas Hedges on 1 October 1820, Hadlow, Kent.
Just thought I'd mention this.
-
For EASTWOOD I am not sure I got them all but here is what I have so far
John and Harriet had the following children
John 1840 Sittingbourne Kent Married Ann
Mark 1843 Hoo Kent
Caroline 1846 Hadlow
James 1855 Kent
Bratian 1857 Essex
William 1860 Kent
Alis or Alice 1863 Bexley Kent
I am not sure what to put for JENNINGS perhaps Deb can help with this one when she has time. ;D
Hi ...I had just typed a WHOLE lot and it disappeared arrrggggghhhhhhhh :-X >:(
okay re Mark
1871
Duke of York Beerhouse,
Barden rd, tonbridge
Mark Eastwood lodger mar 28 hawker b Tudely?
Rosa lodger mar 28 b kent Bunchley
Mark 6 b eastry
By 1881 they are In a van in a field off Dover street
Northfleet, Gravesend
Mark Eastwood head mar 37 horse dealer b Isle of Grain, kent
Flora wife 43 essex Raleigh...is this his 2nd wife??
Mark son 16 goes with father b Estry
1891
Northfleet, 1 south ter.
caravan
Mark Eastwood head mar 26 general dealer shop b Eastee (sic)
Emma wife 25 b maidstone hawker
John son 5 b Northfleet
Mark 7 months b Northfleet
/
caravan
Flora Eastwood head wid 52 hawker b Essex raleigh
/
caravan
John Eastwood head mar 26 hawker b Essex
Ada wife 23 b Dartford
John son 5 b Brompton, kent
Banjamin son 3 b Surrey Croydon
Walter son 8months b Strood Kent
wonder if this is mark bc 1890
Mark Eastwood
POB = Gravesend
Residence = Woolwich
DOD = 3 May 1917
Enlisted at; Belvedere, Kent
Rank: Rifleman
Reg King's Royal Rifle Corps, 8th Bat
Number= R/24254
Died of wounds
Theater of War= Aldershot
on the CWGC ; they have him
Mark Eastwood
Grave/Memorial Ref= Bay 7.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL
will look for marriages
deb
-
mariages
Mark Eastwood = Flora Day
mar q 1869
Thanet Kent
2a 915
ummmmm can't spot any
deb
-
Still trying to help Deb ;D
Have searched every possible way for William Hedges with no luck ???
Ok i will see if i can help you ;D ;D
-
1901 RG13 / 716 / 56 / 1
Mark Eastwood head age 34 b Eastry, Sussex, occ horse dealer, stable
Emma wife age 37 b Maidstone, Kent, occ hawker
John son age 16 b Southfleet, Kent
Mark son age 9 b Southfleet
Flora dau age 6 b Southfleet
Emma dau age 4 b Southfleet
Wiliam son age 3 b Southfleet
Address 1 South Terrace, Northfleet, Perry Street.
Have we got this?
-
Found these in 1901 as well :o
RG13 / 562 / 108 / 51
Mary A Eastwood head, widow age 64, b Orpington, Kent, occ lic hawker
Annie dau, single age 27 b Dartford, Kent, occ lic hawker
Mark son single age 23 Wakeringbury, Kent, occ lab telegraph works
Address Caravan, West Street, Charlton and Kidbrooke
Do these fit anywhere?
Sue
-
Deb...... on original census pages of the above they are with Penfolds in caravans.
Other families on there as well. ;D ;D Check previous census page as well for the above :)
-
There are some EASTWOODS & HEDGES listed this site:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gypsy/gypsy.htm
-
Gotta post incase we have't got it ;D ;D
1901 RG13 / 742 / 15 / 22
John Eastwood head age 36 b NK, occ hawker (gipsys)
Ada wife age 30 b NK, occ hawker
John son age 16 b KN, occ hawker
Bennie son age 12 b KN, occ hawker
Walter son age 11 b KN
Thomas son age 9 b KN
Esther dau age 7 b KN
William son age 4 b KN
Address Caravan, New Hythe, East Malling
Next to them is William Eastwood and wife Esther and children in caravan ;D
Hi sue
was just posting yours LOL
-
geezzzzz who is the Emma that Mark Jnr married?
deb
-
Guess what?
David Harris, chr. 1 January 1752, Shene, Surrey, married Ann Cumber in 1780 (no source, I'll look for one) in Betchworth, Surrey.
That is a place we have seen a lot of mentions of and perhaps it has a strong link to it being a place for travellers to congregate. Does anyone know?
I'll see if I can find anything more about her.
-
re Children of Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds
all of these on same page for marriage
June q 1892 Medway Kent
Charlotte Hedges
Henry Hedges...could he be s/o Elias and Alice?
George Broom
Rose Ann Carter
can't see Henry and Rose Ann on the 1901
deb
This Henry HEDGES Married Rose Ann Carter, Is Henry 1871 the son of William HEDGES 1832 and Eliza Clark 1834.
Henry is my Great uncle. This is the only photo I have of him. Thought you might like to see.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r274/Nennefer/HedgesatHoadleyweddingfixedzoom1-1.jpg)
-
Whilst searching for Harris', I came across this on a page about the Lifford family of Abinger (one of whom married into the Harris's of Shere):
Abinger
May 1782 Mary Lifford marr. Edward Penfold of Betchworth wit. Edward Skelton
Notice Edward Penfold... not only are the Penfolds of travelling stock, he is also of Betchworth. I also note a Harris marriage to a Skelton as well.
-
A couple more HEDGES for you, baptised at West Malling:
http://www.west-malling.co.uk/V2/baptisms.php5
George Hedges son of Henry & Ann, Van Dweller Hawker, born 04 May 1912 baptised 17 Sep 1914
Joseph Hedges son of Henry & Annie, Travelling Licensed Hawker, Immigrant Hop Picker, born 10 Jan 1914 baptised 19 Sep 1915
-
A couple more HEDGES for you, baptised at West Malling:
http://www.west-malling.co.uk/V2/baptisms.php5
George Hedges son of Henry & Ann, Van Dweller Hawker, born 04 May 1912 baptised 17 Sep 1914
Joseph Hedges son of Henry & Annie, Travelling Licensed Hawker, Immigrant Hop Picker, born 10 Jan 1914 baptised 19 Sep 1915
Oooo thank you I wonder where they fit in. Just when I think we have found them all more pop up Excellent. ;D
-
If anyone has time could they do a quick search for any Info on Henry HEDGES and Rose Ann Carter I only know of 1 child Rose A Hedges. This is from the 1891 Census for 1 Dunken Alley Chatham Daughter Rose's age is unclear, my records show age 1or 2.
I had thought they settled in Chatham Kent but am no longer sure if that is true.
I haven't found them in Chatham for the 1901 but could have missed them.
My G Grandfather Samson and his brother Henry were close as brothers I understand but I know almost nothing about Henry.
Jenny
-
Hi Jenny,
Daughter Rose A is age 7 on 1891 :)
Will see if i can find them in 1901 ;D
Sue
-
Jenny i just checked 1891 on FindMyPast and Rose A is down as age 1 ???
On a-------y original census it could be 1 as there is a line through it but it states 7 when
searching ???
-
Another problem on 1901 :o
RG13 / 733 / 73 / 12
This has been posted before, not sure where but it gives William age 32 b Chatham, occ hawker,
Rose A wife age 29 b Northfleet, Rose A dau age 2 b Chatham, also Henry, Eliza and Mary A
Do you think William is Henry ???
-
Hi Sue good to see you.
I have Rose A down as 7 as well but that is definitely wrong her parents wouldn't be old enough to have a 7 year old child so I always suspected she was 1 year old.
Could I ask you to email me a copy of the 1901 census record. It sounds as if they have swapped the husbands over but can't be sure until I see it.
Jenny
-
Sent. Hope you get it ok ;D ;D
Sue
-
Sent. Hope you get it OK ;D ;D
Sue
Got that OK Sue. Yes they have swapped the husbands, well not them literally I mean the Enumerator has swapped them. Thats OK not a problem. I know who belongs to who. They are living together in the same house so an easy mistake to make.
I now have some more children for Henry. ;D Thank you for finding them for me. i had searched the Index in Strood Archives but they wasn't there. Perhaps the index is not compleat. Never trust an index. :-\
Added... No re-read that census Henry has put himself as William How odd. Oh well it must be Henry perhaps there was some confusion when he was giving names. Very odd.
-
Well I have to shoot of for a couple of hours. I will be back as soon as I have erected a flat pack table from Ikea. :( I hate flat packs. See you all soon. :)
-
More on the Tickners can be found here: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/the.nook/charts/t/tickn507.htm
So it seems he's not the John Tickner I thought he was but a different one. Still, it extends the tree somewhat.
Also note a Tickner marriage to a Lucy Hedger. That may just be another coincidence.
Oh and this is the type of genealogist I like, one who makes good notes and doesn't assume everything. Good work there.
-
More on the Tickners can be found here: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/the.nook/charts/t/tickn507.htm
So it seems he's not the John Tickner I thought he was but a different one. Still, it extends the tree somewhat.
Also note a Tickner marriage to a Lucy Hedger. That may just be another coincidence.
Thank you James
I will take a look as soon as I get time. So My John is a differant one to the one you had a record of interesting. ;D There is not enough hours in the day at the moment. You are all so good at finding Info. I sometimes struggle to keep up. I will get there though. Isn't this great, I love it. ;D The Lucy HEDGER is interesting. I wonder who she belongs to.
-
Apparently:
Lucy Hedger, chr. 8 April 1804, Wonersh, Surrey, daughter of James Hedger and Jane.
I've checked for other issue and I've found nothing (I tried Hedges too). Neither can I find a marriage.
-
re Children of Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds
all of these on same page for marriage
June q 1892 Medway Kent
Charlotte Hedges
Henry Hedges...could he be s/o Elias and Alice?
George Broom
Rose Ann Carter
can't see Henry and Rose Ann on the 1901
deb
This Henry HEDGES Married Rose Ann Carter, Is Henry 1871 the son of William HEDGES 1832 and Eliza Clark 1834.
oooooo Jenny
okay .....
Charlotte Hedges is d/o Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds
Elias Hedges is the s/o James Hedges and Eliza (Jennings)....... Janice's line
Henry Hedges is the s/o William Hedges and Eliza Clark
William Hedges is s/o Your William Hedges and Fanny Jennings...... Jenny's line
so we have two cousins marrying same quarter in the same area .... I wonder if it could possibly be the same day!!!!!!!!!
is this the link we have been looking for?
deb :)
-
YES YES YES. Going to be ordering the Certificates this evening. ;D ;D ;D Jumping up and down. Well spoted Deb. We will see what the certificates say. ;D
Added Idea..... I wonder if the marrages can be found on Cityark. I will have to search every church for that date. ??? Is that right. I think so.
-
WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D
-
sue.....
Look at these names on one page; Blimey :o ..did a cousin marry another cousin?
Marriage
Sept q 1894 Rochford Essex
Charlotte BIBBY .... big gypsy family
Elijah HEDGES
Albert HEDGES
Rosa HEDGES
I wonder if we can sort these out? Maybe another connection!!!
deb
-
WOW............ Well done Deb ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
-
Deb,
Did you notice my Edward Penfold marriage to a Lifford?
I was just curious if he was one of yours. He may not be a traveller at all but just thought it worth mentioning.
-
Thanks Sue
while looking on 1901 , found these peeps
West Thurrock, Essex
Caravan;
Henry Hedges mar 40 hawker
Hedges wife mar 39
Hedges dau 7
Hedges son 4
/
caravan
John Taylor head hawker 30
Taylor wife 29
taylor dau 10
Taylor son 6
:-\ :-\...looks like the emunerator could not be bothered to ask their names!
deb
Hi James ...Yes, thanks for that ... my Penfolds were in Devon/Cornwall area ...but the extended family is from Sussex and travelled all over ...they are a confusing lot ;D
-
I have found this marriage Jenny
Jeremiah Hedges = Sarah Ann Eastwood or Harriet Tanner
dec q 1870
Romford Essex
4a 181
Jeremiah b 1848 s/o Job
I found the marriage of the other couple ...quote from pages back;
Jenny ...re the marriage of Jeremiah ...the other man on the page was a Sidney Eaton
I have found Sidney Eaton , b 1849 with wife HARRIET in Romford , Essex on the 1871 census ...
so if Sidney Eaton = Harriet Tanner then Jeremiah Hedges must = Sarah Ann EASTWOOD.
~~~~~~~~-------------------------
I think I have found them in 1901
West Ham , 64 Boelyn St
Jeremiah Hedges head mar 50? contractor of House or Horses carts/Carv. b Essex .. wonder if he was making Vardos/caravans :)
Sarah Ann wife 47 b Kent Eltham
Mary A dau 22 unm b Maidstone
Walter son 18 b Essex Upton park
Jeremiah son 14 b Ditto
Sarah A dau 13 b Ditto
Elvas dau 12 b Ditto
James son 9 b Ditto
Caroline dau 6 b Ditto
okay I wonder if we can find sarah Ann EASTWOOD b c 1856 Eltham and see if we can connect her to the other Eastwoods we have.
deb :)
added ...errrr it seems she married young .... :-\
-
You know, there's rumours of horse dealers in my mother's family but I've been unable to pinpoint who they are... I think it may have been the Housden family of Saffron Walden but I am not sure... maybe one day I could link all this in. My grand aunt always went on about gyspy blood... strange. The Housdens are not in my direct line though, they're cousins via the Andrews of Chrishall.
Anyhow, sorry to go off on a tangent.
Does anyone have a list of itinerant jobs? Many of these Tickners were Domestic Gardeners but does that mean much?
-
Hi James
I don't know about gardening being a Gypsey job ... most of them hawked their wares ...
Mat , peg, brush making; general dealers; horse dealers; circus entertainers; etc
deb
-
Deb..... Have we already had this in 1861?
RG09 / 490 / 204 / 26
George Eastwood age 42 b Burwash, wife Pheba age 40 b Wadhurst and lots of family ???
Sue
-
Hi Sue ...
can't remember all that we have on the Eastwoods ..... Just know that Harriet Jennings possible sister to Fanny and Eliza married an Eastwood .....
Also that jeremiah Hedges marries sarah Ann Eastwood ... can't find Sarah yet...
will have a look at your find
deb
-
Wonder who the grandaughters and niece belong to ???
There are another 2 large families in caravans as well :)
Sue
-
Deb did you see my post on page 16 about finding the Eastwoods and Penfolds living near
or next to each other ? :)
-
ooo look 1891
Stock, Chelmsford, Essex
Plantation Mill rd in caravans
John BIBBEY head mar 50 travelling with swings ?? mats ..can't make out second word
NK ditto wife 48
dau 22
son 18
son 11
dau 9
son 7
/
Pheobe HEDGES wid head 46 hawker/brush wagon ...she is wife of JOB HEDGES
NK Ditto dau 20 hawker's dau
son 18 " son
dau 18 " dau
dau 12
dau 7
dau 4
all born NK
I wonder if Charlotte Bibbey is one of the daughters that may have married a Hedges son:
Marriage
Sept q 1894 Rochford Essex
Charlotte BIBBY .... big gypsy family
Elijah HEDGES
Albert HEDGES
Rosa HEDGES
deb
sue ..yes I did ...can't recognise them as mine though
-
What about this Charlotte in 1881 :)
RG11 /1767 / 74 / 14
John Bibbey head age 32 b Chelmsford, occ traveller ( hawker )
Jane wife age 31 b Essex, traveller
George son age 10 b Essex, traveller
Charlotte dau age 8 b Essex, traveller
Harriet dau age 5 b Essex, traveller
John son age 2 b Essex, traveller
Address Van, Danbury
Sue
-
Blimey who are these Hedges ?? :o
1891
EASTWOOD RD .... ;D
Prittlewell, Southend, essex
E Hedges head mar 40 licensed hawker b Romford
M Hedges wife 44 Ditto b Cambridge
A hedges dau 15 Lic. Hawker b ?? Essex
H Hedges son 20 Lic hawker b Eadingfield Essex
R Hedges son 8 b Southend essex
A Hedges son 6 b Romfield
W Hedges son 2 b Prittlewell
Arthur son 17 lic hawker b Prittlewell
deb
OOO goood one sue ...now to find out who she married ...which Hedges boy?
-
Oh my, you 2 have been busy. I go off for an hour to rescue daughter and I come back and you are both off again, solving yet another puzzle. You 2 could make a living as detectives. ;D I am just so impressed. I can't begin to tell you both how grateful I am for your help. I never expected to find so much in such a short period of time. How great is this. This HEDGES family didn't make it easy did they. But they are no match for you. ;D
Now who are this new bunch.
I have just installed my new Family Tree Maker and have 6 months free Ancestry that I am going to test right now ;D Happy Hunting
-
Due to having the wrong John Tickner before, my link to my tree was lost.
However, after much work, I have found a link again, so everything is working out nicely.
It's thanks to that Tickner website, plus another website that I frequently use with lots of Surrey families on, that have I have made a fresh link.
Just to quickly iterate:
I'm kind of distantly linked to the Daborn family of Horsell and Chobham, Surrey. One of the family, a Henry Daborn, married a Caroline Smith. Her sisters Hannah and Martha both married into the Stevens family of Horsell. A daughter of James Stevens and Martha Smith (Kitty Stevens) married Henry Shepherd. Henry Shepherd's sister Jane Shepherd married a William Tickner, of Shere. This William Tickner is related to the John Tickner who married Eden Hedges.
Yep, it's a small world.
Again, apologies for going off on a tangent.
-
Hi james ;D ;D ...small world indeed!!
have been trying to figure these couples out:
Marriage
Sept q 1894 Rochford Essex
Charlotte BIBBY .... big gypsy family
Elijah HEDGES
Albert HEDGES
Rosa HEDGES
1901 has been impossible so I decided to look for some births to see if that may help us ...
what do you think of these , all born in Rochford Essex:
Albert Hedges Dec q 1898
Alvey Hedges June q 1895 :)
John Elias Hedges June q 1910
Queenie Hedges Jun q 1911
Sidney Hedges mar q 1912 Mother's maiden name = BIBBY
Elijah Hedges June q 1913 MMN = Hedges ...i wonder if this would mean that Elijah Hedges married Rosa Hedges?
Job Hedges june q 1913 MMN = HEDGES
Maisie L Hedges june q 1914 MMN = BIBBY
deb :)
-
Found this but got no proof who married who yet ::)
Sep 1894 Marriage at Rochford
George Bibby
Andrew Cotton
Priscilla Hedges
Lilly Pilgrim
Sue
-
Oh im confused now ;D ;D ;D
Have we seen this in 1891 RG12 / 1373 / 52 / 21
John Bibby head age 42 b Chelmsford, occ lic hawker
Charlotte wife age 38 b Windsor
George W son age 20 b Ongar, Essex, occ lic hawker
Charlotte dau age 18 b Stratford
Harriet dau age 13 b Plaistow
John son age 11 b Plaistow
Olivia dau age 3 b Wealdon
Willie son age 6 months b Southend
Address A Caravan, Claremont Road, Hornchurch
Could this be the Charlotte and George found in the marriages
Sue
-
Blimey Sue :o :o :o
Good Grief .... how are we gonna sort them out ....
I am still hoping that the marriages I found of the Hedges and Bibby girl are going to show that 2 cousins married ...So I am trying to find Rosa, Elijah and Albert Hedges and see if they link up with the families of the 4 brothers ... if you get my drift ;D ::) :P
deb
where's Jenny ... bet she has herself enveloped in anc**try ;D :D
-
Sue ...
;D ;D I have just spent ages looking for John Bibby's marriage only to realise I was looking under the BIRTH registrations :o ;D ;D
Do you think jane/charlotte Bibby wife of John could be one and the same person '
marriage ;
John Bibby Mar q 1870
Billericay Essex
4a 149
on the same page Charlotte Jane Edges
deb
-
Deb if they're not the same person maybe Jane died and John remarried ::)
I would expect to find the 2 families together somewhere but i just cant find any of
them in 1901 ???
Sue
-
And i wonder if the Priscilla Hedges is sister to Rosa, Elijah or Albert ???
Sue
-
Can find no death for a Jane so must be same person :)
Will keep looking for that missing link with these families ;D
Jenny where are you ;D ;D ;D
Sue ;D
-
Going out for a couple of hours ..off to see 'Australia'....
BBS
deb :)
keep up the good job , Sue!!! here's some gold stars for you to put on your forehead *********
-
Have a lovely evening Deb :) :)
Thanks for the gold stars ;D ;D ;D ;D Im sure there will still be lots for you to find still when
you get back ;D
Sue
-
I'm here just looking for the marriage record for the marriage in Medway Not having much luck so far.
-
re Children of Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds
all of these on same page for marriage
June q 1892 Medway Kent
Charlotte Hedges
Henry Hedges...could he be s/o Elias and Alice?
George Broom
Rose Ann Carter
can't see Henry and Rose Ann on the 1901
deb
This Henry HEDGES Married Rose Ann Carter, Is Henry 1871 the son of William HEDGES 1832 and Eliza Clark 1834.
oooooo Jenny
okay .....
Charlotte Hedges is d/o Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds
Elias Hedges is the s/o James Hedges and Eliza (Jennings)....... Janice's line
Henry Hedges is the s/o William Hedges and Eliza Clark
William Hedges is s/o Your William Hedges and Fanny Jennings...... Jenny's line
so we have two cousins marrying same quarter in the same area .... I wonder if it could possibly be the same day!!!!!!!!!
is this the link we have been looking for?
deb :)
Just hunting for there couples who married in Medway. I am on cityark going through the medway church records in the hope of finding them. you never know, I just might. Slow work though.
-
Oh...... Have searched every possible way i can think of and still nothing :o
Will carry on, just wanted you to know im still here Jenny ;D ;D
Sue
-
I know how you feel. I have searched almost every church in medway on cityark for the quarter given and either I have missed them or they are in a church not available to search. Rats >:(.
Still plugging away at it. You never know. :)
-
Sorry folks gotta do a few jobs before bed but be back tomorrow ;D ;D
Hope to have better luck with this tomorrow :)
Nite Nite ;D ;D
Sue
-
Thanks for all the help today Deb and Sue . I too have to call it a day. I'm out tomorrow, Dentist :-X but will be back tomorrow evening. ;D.
I have ordered these marriage certs. As couldn't find the marriage entries on cityark.
June q 1892 Medway Kent
Charlotte Hedges
Henry Hedges
George Broom
Rose Ann Carter
I am hoping the Death Cert. will arrive soon for Baby Thomas died 1854 Malling. Son of James HEDGES. Fingers X it may be here tomorrow.
Jenny
-
Hi Jenny,
Hope dentist wasn't painful :)
So where to go from here, who or what do we still need ???
If i can help i will ;D ;D
Sue
-
Hi Sue
Dentist was fine ;D
Not sure what to do now. I was hoping to have some certificates here waiting for me when I got home but nothing today. Perhaps tomorrow, fingers crossed.
I have got a little behind you and Deb and was having a read trying to catch up. Not easy when you keep getting interrupted, Grrrr family. Do you have any suggestions?
-
I've also got a bit lost...
I started putting all the information into my database, so I could keep track of things better... but now I've got behind. Who are these two people Henry Hedges and Charlotte Hedges rumoured to be?
I don't have a Charlotte Hedges in my tree.
Edit: right, Charlotte Hedges is daughter of Elias Hedges and Alice Reynolds... but when was she born?
Also, what other children of William Hedges and Eliza Clark are there?
-
Hi everyone ...
can't stay long as it is Thanksgiving Day here and I am off to the big Feast at the in-laws ;D ;D
I can't wait for the certs to arrive ...the only other thing I can suggest is to see if the other marriages are of cousins marrying...
Marriage
Sept q 1894 Rochford Essex
Charlotte BIBBY .... big gypsy family
Elijah HEDGES
Albert HEDGES
Rosa HEDGES
I must admit I have grown really fond of the Hedges brothers and their families .... :)
deb
-
Have we found the certificate for William Hedges and Eliza Clark on Medway CityArk?
-
I have 3 Charlotte's in my tree but you are talking of this one.
Charlotte HEDGES b. 1874 Raliegh Essex. Married George Broom b. 1872 Rochester
Charlotte Is the daughter of Elias HEDGES b. 1844 and Alice REYNOLDS b. 1846
I have sent for the marriage cert. of Charlotte and George.
does that help.
-
Ah, so she didn't marry Henry Hedges then?
He must have married Rose Ann Carter, then?
-
Hi Debs
Hope you have a wonderful evening.
I too am quite attached to the Hedges brothers ;D I understand later generations were a lovely
bunch of people. Samson was very well thought of and his wife Eliza who had 14 children and died at only 54, I think, was a very harsh looking woman who had a heart of gold.
Would it help if I ordered the certificates for these.
Marriage
Sept q 1894 Rochford Essex
Charlotte BIBBY
Elijah HEDGES
Albert HEDGES
Rosa HEDGES
-
Ah, so she didn't marry Henry Hedges then?
He must have married Rose Ann Carter, then?
Henry HEDGES B 27 Aug 1871 Married Rose Ann Carter B 1872 in June q 1892 in Medway
-
Have a lovely evening Deb ;D ;D
Just going to have a look for Albert and Elijah again :)
Sue
-
Thanks.
It's a shame we don't know the parish, because we could then possibly find them both on Medway CityArk. I gather you've checked thoroughly, so it will be interesting to see what the certificates say.
-
Have we found the certificate for William Hedges and Eliza Clark on Medway CityArk?
I have the certificate foe William and Eliza Clark already James.
I spent as long as I could yesterday looking for these on Cityark yesterday going through all the Medway churches with no luck so ordered the certificates last night.
June q 1892 Medway Kent
Charlotte Hedges
Henry Hedges
George Broom
Rose Ann Carter
-
Excellent.
I just found the certificate for Sampson Hedges and Margaret Perfect. I didn't know about this marriage. It happens to be on the page before the marriage of William Hedges and Eliza Clark.
I'm sure you knew about this already but I didn't.
Were there children from this marriage? I realise he married secondly to Bridget Friday and had a son Sampson Hedges with her.
-
Excellent.
I just found the certificate for Sampson Hedges and Margaret Perfect. I didn't know about this marriage. It happens to be on the page before the marriage of William Hedges and Eliza Clark.
I'm sure you knew about this already but I didn't.
Were there children from this marriage? I realize he married secondly to Bridget Friday and had a son Sampson Hedges with her.
Yes I have this marriage and you are correct he did marry twice. They only had one son Sampson Born 13 July 1872. To my knowledge he had no more children.
-
Just clearing up a few things...
Did we ever determine who Sarah Ann Eastwood who married Jeremiah Hedges was? I only have her name and no father details. I know there's other Eastwoods in the tree, so I was curious.
Edit: is she the Sarah Ann Eastwood christened on 24 February 1850 in Hadlow, Kent and daughter of James Eastwood and and Sarah?
-
Just clearing up a few things...
Did we ever determine who Sarah Ann Eastwood who married Jeremiah Hedges was? I only have her name and no father details. I know there's other Eastwoods in the tree, so I was curious.
Edit: is she the Sarah Ann Eastwood christened on 24 February 1850 in Hadlow, Kent and daughter of James Eastwood and and Sarah?
I'm not sure James. I get very mixed up with all the Eastwoods and confess to losing track :-\.
My notes say the following
Find Sarah Ann EASTWOOD b.c 1856 in Eltham which I believe is near Bexley Kent, but I'm not sure if it comes under London. There is a birth entry on BMD for 1856 but looking at the original it is in poor condition it could say Bexley I'm not sure
Births Sep 1856
Eastwood Sarah Ann * * __2
-
Well Jenny iv'e had no luck with those ???
These families are very good at hiding ;D ;D
Sue
-
I've just checked that image... it is indeed very poor!
I do suspect the Sarah Ann Eastwood of Hadlow also fits in though somewhere.
-
As this topic is getting very long, it has now been split.
Part 2 continues at:
Topic: Need Advice on connecting HEDGES brothers #2
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,436261.0.html
Tip: if you want to read the whole topic through, use the "Print" button
more about this here: http://www.rootschat.com/help/faqs.php#long_topics
Bob