RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: CelticEvie on Thursday 23 October 08 19:35 BST (UK)
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Hi ;)
My sister inlaw has quite the problem! Her father is said
to have killed a man and changed his name to James Leo
North, he worked in Oil and traveled, I have found him on
ships from England and also Egypt! She thinks his original
surname was Rux and he was from Germany. But what I do
know is he married her mother in England and she arrived
in America from Southampton, at least it shows her coming
to America several times or there are more than one Frances
Kathleen North? Her maiden name is Donohue and she was
born abt 1906. Does anyone have any idea's? Take Care...
Evie
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Hi Evie and welcome to rootschat.
Here is, I hope, Frances' birth details:
4th quarter 1906 Kingston Surrey vol 2a pg 416
Frances Kathleen Donohue
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and that fits with the entry to UK in 1938- same area.
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I think from your enquiry that your sister in law is more interested in her father? Sorry I can't help there.
1901 has a Winifred Donohue with children living with her parents- Downey in Kingston Surrey.
There is also a marriage on Free BMD for Winifred Downey to John Walter Donohue. If these are of any help and you want more details- please post.
If you have any idea of the date of marriage, the reference to that could be looked up.
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Hi
There's a US WW2 Draft reg. Card for a James Leo NORTH in Pennsylvania if someone has details of that? If it's him to see POB etc?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi .....
The WW11 draft card gives born 12 June 1889 Drifton Pennsylvania
the records for New York arrivals give date of birth as 1898 and born St Paul Minnesota.
Tazzie
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He arrives 1927 on White Star Lines Olympic at Southampton an oil worker age 29 staying at Regent Palace hotel London place of birth USA
Tazzie
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nothing shows up in Free BMD for a marriage so it's up to you now Evie to let us know what you think and what help can be given.
I don't know how easy it is to check on births in USA ?
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Hi,
This sounds like them,
Marriage 1Q 1931
Frances K Donohue North Kingston 2a 679
James L North Donohue " "
Marriage certificate might give some clues.
Best wishes
Cathy
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well done Cathy,
that's brilliant ;D
heywood
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Hi,
Thanks, how jammy was that, nearly the first quarter i searched, never usually that easy! :D
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Everyone,
Thanks so much for the Welcome and replies! My sister
would like to know about both parents and her Ancestors!
Please excuse my replies taking so long as I have to type
one handed and even that is hard! So all that is found will
be a great help and such a joy to her and her children. Its
actually her grandaughter who asked me to do this! James
North was born abt 1898! All records I have found says he
was born in Minnesota, USA, but he is not there, I have searched St. Paul, Minnesota and I have had no luck!!! So
thought it was time to seek help!!! I do not know dates
for marriage, but would assume middle to late 1920's, beginning 1930's, her parents would not discuss any of
thier history! Your All Great, Thanks...
Evie
Evie
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Hi Evie......
As you say no sign of a James Leo North b Minnesota showing on 1900 census or 1910....by 1920 he could be anywhere of course.
However the name Rux does appear in Minnesota but the only one are not in St Paul.
Wille Rux b 1897 Excel Marshall Minn.
Rudolf Rux b 1899Excel (brother to above)
Henry Rux b 1899 Sanders Red Lake
Emil Rux b 1898 Sanders Red Lake
Harry Rux b 1899 Hammond Wabasha.
The marriage found above by Cath may give some clues and would be well worth the money ordering.
Tazzie
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Here is their dob's:
Frances Kathleen Donohue- 17 Oct 1906
James Leo North- 1 Jul 1898
As she knows nothing of her British heritage, anything that can be found would be great! On one of
the records it says she is Irish and yet it shows her born
Kingston, Jamaica , this has me confused as on the other it says London, would I assume both are her or that there was another woman with the same name? I would like to
know more on her mothers family and see how far back they
can go? Her father is going to be quite the task so it is probably better to tackle one at a time...
Evie
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Where and how do I go about ordering these records?
I would also like to find out if those are her parents and
how do I find more? Where do I look or can I, being that
I am in USA? Finding and tracing family can sometimes be
easy in USA, but then you run across a relative like James
North and the hunt is on!!! I guess I could upgrade my
Ancestry account to World! Any suggestions?
Evie
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There are the two Kingstons, but all points to Kingston Surrey. This may well be her family but the marriage certificate would be needed to verify her father's name and the birth certificate would get both parents names.
You can order online - http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
1901 http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
105 Gibbon Road Kingston on Thames Surrey
John Downey head 60 yrs watchmaker b Devonshire
Elizabeth wife 58 yrs b Devonshire
William son 25 yrs house painter b London Bermondsey
Dorothea daur 17 yrs wine merchant's shop assistant b Surrey Kingston
Winfred Donohue married daur 30 yrs b London Bermondsey
Winifred Donohue grand daur 1 yr b Surrey Kingston
Margery -do- grand daur 7 months b Kingston
there is no real evidence as to John Walter Donohue - the birth cerificate and marriage certificate would perhaps help.
rootschatters are always willing to help.
Now we don't knpw whether this is the family you need ::)
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Marriage
March quarter 1899 John Walter Donohue Hackney vol 1b pg 669 - possible bride Winifred Downey
Birth
December quarter 1906 Kingston vol 2a pg 416
Frances Kathleen Donohue
both on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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as often happens- designed just to irritate us and keep us on our toes - there is no Winifred with her family in 1891- nor can I find a birth for her :(
Can't see the family yet in 1881
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here they are in 1881- you can view this for free- still no Winifred - she is possibly Julia ???
1881 RG11; Piece: 568; Folio: 92; Page: 20
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Thanks!
I guess I need to study up on your genealogy over
there as most looks like greek to me! So I have found
Frances and the surest way to know who her parents
are is to order birth record or I can see if Ancestry offers
these records? I am wondering where this John and
Winifred comes into this? Are these possible parents?
What is your census setup and can you access them
online?
Evie
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I am sorry I have not been clear enough - I access them through Ancestry.co.uk - not sure if you have access to UK census through Anc..com.
You can see the 1881 census free on Ancestry (both I think) and certainly on Family Search.
You can access Free BMD for free.
I am wondering if John and Winifred are Frances' parents. You can get her birth certificate through ordering online at the GRO site I sent.
If her parents are John and Winifred - then you could get their marriage certificate through GRO too. It is the equivalent of £7 to order - in today's money that's about $11.
I posted the Winifred Donohue census info because it is the same area - but perhaps I should have waited - all will depend on the birth certificate which does seem pretty good.
Just remembered that really good marriage certificate find of Cathy's- you may want to start with that - your choice. It should give you the names of the fathers of the couple.
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Well I can tell ya this is alot more that I now have,
so Thank You! I have a payed account with Ancestry,
but only have US access. So I am trying to decide if I
should upgrade my account to World. I will see if my
sister wants me to order the bc or marriage record
when she gets home from work later, I will also ask
to see what all she has on her parents. Again Thanks
for the help!!! I am sure I will be bugging you all again
as I move along with this. Take Care...
Evie ;)
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Hi Evie
I wondered if the US Social Security records had been investigated for possible clues?
http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi
http://vitals.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ca/death/search.cgi
I see a Frances K NORTH, female, dob: 17 Oct 1906, died 22 Apr 1975 age 68, last residence of Long Beach, Los Angeles, CA. (Nothing on the index re: her mother's maiden name. father's last name)
Any idea of when and where James Leo NORTH died ?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hey;
James L. North died Aug. 1979 in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA,
My sister just got home from work and I looked at her bc and
it also says James was born Minnesota, which I will tackle again
in a few days!!! My sister told me that her grandmom was named Jewell and that Frances had maybe 5 sisters one named
Doris who married and came to states, I have the births pulled
up on BMD for 1900 to 1940 and see that there is other females that are her possible sisters and a brother!!! Now to
just find a woman named Jewell who married a Donohue!
Evie
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not to sure about the Jewell but there is a Doris Donohue born 1912 -mother's name Downey!
Winifred Downey Donohue already has 2 daughters in 1901. That's the only one that comes up in Free BMD. There are others as you say but they are before the time that the mother's name was listed. That family are looking very good for you.
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Your right Heywood, I went over and talked to my sister
in law and she nows says she might be wrong about the name and that it might be Julia, but still that does not explain Winnifred, who my sister thought was a sister
of her mother, so I take this as she really does not know and that she has names all mixed up. So I need to just go
by what the records are saying! Cathy were did you find
that marriage record? I am still trying to learn how your
system of records work and I seem to be missing a few
things when I try to look? Thanks again everyone for the Help,
as it has made a big difference! I have my own genealogy I was doing and I know that finding this site is going to be great and
I only hope I can return the favor if anyone needs any help
on this side of the pond!!! Take Care...
Evie ;)
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Hi Evie,
Sounds like the family is coming together nicely!
There are complete records of all births , marriages and deaths in England
and Wales from 1837 and they are available to search , quarter by quarter, on Ancestry.co.uk if you have a subscription.
There are records available free on Freebmd up to about 1930 but they are by no means complete but a good starting point.
Census records 1841, every ten years, to 1901 are also invaluble and available on Ancestry and other sites, some censuses are free.
BMD certificates are especially helpful to confirm family relationships ,especially before 1901.
Hope this helps a bit, any questions please ask.
Best wishes
Cathy
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Hi Evie and all,
I've just returned from holiday and hope all is well.
Looking over these posts - it looks as though there is a sister Winnifred and for some reason the mother is also listed as the same name Winnifred so your sister in law is right re the sister and it seems re the mother as Julia (in part).
Eliza Julia Downey - free BMD December quarter 1869 Bermondsey
1871 census
RG10; Piece: 637; Folio: 44; Page: 19
Eliza J is transcribed as 1 month old but looks like 12 months.
1881 she is Julia.
1891 RG12; Piece: 33; Folio 73; Page 20
Eliza J (transcribed as Eliza I) is a cook
but then she becomes Winifred ???
best wishes
heywood
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HI Heywood,
Hope you had a good Holiday! Yes I am now aware of
the problem of this woman's name. I found two families
on Ancestry that have a Julia and the other has Eliza J
born 1871, but they also have a Julia born 1870 so I will
try to see if we can work it out! Thank You for keeping up
with the search! I am so glad I found this site and of course folks like you and all that have helped me with this!!! I now
know from starting to post in other threads that it looks like this place is full of kind people!!! As you can see from my list of surnames, which is just a small sample of all my surnames which alot have a start in England, I will be visiting with you all alot! Take Care and I will update once I get replys from
the families I found, also I found that John Donohue might
be from Dublin, Ireland...
Evie
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Also Winifred was thier oldest daughter, born 1899,
could this be where the problem is?
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Had a great holiday- weather not too good but a perfect sport where my dad was born!
Yes I wondered if the enumerator had got it wrong and just written both names but then remembered that she got married as Winifred ???
good luck and glad that we are of help ;)