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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Lindyloowho on Sunday 26 October 08 18:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi:
Can anyone tell me if this is the uniform of the Northumberland Fusiliers or the Durham Light Infantry?
The man on the left is my father - it's taken about 1920/21/22. Before he joined the regular army (Northumberland Fusliers) in 1922 he was in the Terratorial Army of the Durham Light Infantry - just would like to date this photo a bit more.
Having just received his army papers I have some questions -
How old should he have been to be in the Terratorial Army? On those papers his date of birth is about a year older than he actually was? I wondered if he a told a "white lie" in order to get in? His date of birth on the regular army records is correct.
Under medals is shown he received the L.S. & G.C. Medals (with gratuity) and the Defence Medal - these were stolen many years ago - are they replacable?
In 1923/4 he was in Germany - why would the British Army be there then? Peace keeping?
In the various ranks and promotions - I'm not sure what the following stands for: A/W.O.I, A/S.M.I. He started out as Private (obviously) and ended up as a R.S.M. - at the end of the sheet it states he was posted to the 'Y' list in 1945, what does this mean?
At one point he was also deprived of his Lance strip for inefficiency - did that cover a multitude of sins? ;)
Sorry of all the questions!!
Linda
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Can anyone tell me if this is the uniform of the Northumberland Fusiliers or the Durham Light Infantry?
Between those two, definitely the North'd Fus.
Under medals is shown he received the L.S. & G.C. Medals (with gratuity) and the Defence Medal - these were stolen many years ago - are they replacable?
The LSGC would have been issued personally named, so hard to replace. Defence medals on the other hand were issued unnamed, and so one is exactly the same as another. You could pick one up fairly cheaply from any number of dealers, ebay etc etc.
In 1923/4 he was in Germany - why would the British Army be there then? Peace keeping?
1st North'd Fus in that case I think. This was the British Army of the Rhine, an army of occupation who were in the Rhineland from 1919-29 altogether.
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Neil - thank you for the answers to some of the questions.
I had no idea the British were in Germany that long after WW1.
Linda
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Hi Linda
You could enlist in the TF (Territorial Force) from the age of 17. You could enlist for 1, 2, 3 or 4 years. Most men enlisted for 1 year and renewed each year.
A/WO 1 stands for Acting Warrant Officer (Class) 1. A/SMI is Acting Sergeant Major Instructor. It is usually followed by a trade, ie Musketry, Signals etc. RSM is usually the same as a Warrant Officer so did he change units? If you can find an Army List for when he held these senior NCO ranks you may find him listed. I have one pre-WW1 and they have started to list senior NCOs. They have a full set at Kew, or you could try your nearest army museum. They are also available on CD.
List Y appears to be some sort of category for men not fit for duty, prior to their final discharge. Do you have his medical record?
Ken
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Hi Ken:
Thank you for your informative answers!! He was just short of 17 when he enlisted in the TF, so probably okay.
He was at the Small Arms School in Hythe when he held these ranks in 1943. Unit is shown as H. When he became RSM in 1945 Unit is shown as SAS (Small Arms School?). The last entry is Processed to No. 6 MCU for discharge and the Posted to Y List (Class A release) is stamped on. The record shows he was A1 on his medical exam in 1940. As faras I know he was medically fine.
There is also a letter dated 1952 to The War Office that states he was a Pensioner without a new Code Reserve Liability and has therefore been treated as a Z man and will not be recalled.
Interesting stuff!
Thanks, Linda
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You will need a WW2 expert. In WW1 a Z Class Reservist was someone who was discharged but liable to be recalled if fighting started again before the peace treaty was signed. So obviously different.
Ken
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Thanks Ken.
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Lance Corporal...
The hardest "rank" (actually an appointment!) to get, and the easiest to lose!
"Inefficiency" just means that he may have failed a test or something, or as in TA, didn't tip up for the training and parades perhaps
The SASC website is down at the moment, but the links / emails are there...
http://www2.army.mod.uk/sasc/
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Thank you Scrimnet very much.
I have actually emailed the SASC and they found dad listed (obviously!), but very little in the way of records exist. They do have quite a lot of old photos though and they asked me to send a photo of dad as he would have looked then, which I did, and they said they will try and find anything that exists.
Quite nice of them I thought, considering that's not exactly what they are there for!
Linda
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Have you applied for his records from the Veterans Agency / Kentigern House?
You might get something there...Also what paperwork do you have? His AB64 might hold some clues
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Veterans Agency - never heard of such an animal!
AB64???
I have the records held by the M.O.D. office - B200B, Soldiers particulars, annual report and employment sheets and various other papers - discharge from the DLI, application for the Fusiliers, marriage and children details, etc.
Is there something else I could get?
Linda
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I doubt it Linda! I think you would have as much as you can get from them
The AB64 was a soldiers paybook...My dad left his in his effects along with a shed load of other military papers...I put out a mean display these days at shows etc!!
There are always bits of int on them and interesting things can be gleaned from them!