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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: DrHenry on Saturday 01 November 08 18:50 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if there are any Henrys (or others) currently in the Limavady-Coleraine area who may have traced their ancestry back to (and/or beyond) any of the following:
John Henry, Sr., b. 1654 - reportedly held lands in Coleraine in 1681.
his wife (her second husband) was Elizabeth Erox
(This couple may or may not be ancestors of the following)
Robert Henry, born abt 1730/35.
his wife was Mary Woodburn, b. 7 Apr 1734
And her parents were John Woodburn and Mary Boyd
Matthew Henry, born about 1745
his wife was Jennie Long. born abt 1745
And their children -
Rachel, abt 1767 -1809
Elizabeth, abt 1769-
John, abt 1771-1851
Sally, abt 1773-
This family is associated with Flower Hill, a farm just outside of
Dirtagh, and Aghanloo Parish.
John Henry, 20 Mar 1763-17 Feb 1854
John was the son of Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn, above
His wife was Rachel Henry, daughter of Matthew Henry and Jennie Long, above
They were married in Ireland in 1787
John emigrated to the US in 1788; Rachel followed in 1793
Oversimplification of the above
John Woodburn
? & Mary Boyd ? ?
I I I I
Robert Henry & Mary Woodburn Matthew Henry & Jennie Long
I I
John Henry & Rachel Henry
John and Rachel were my GG Grandparents - and I have extensive data on them
and their descendants following their settlement in the USA.
Any leads would be appreciated. All the above are believed to have been
Scots-Irish, Presbyterians, and probably descended from lowlanders who
emigrated to Ulster from the vicinity of Ayre in the 1600s.
Dr. William H. Henry, Jr.
Oxnard, CA, USA
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I came across this bit about Henrys:
www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/topics/your_questions/henry_derry.shtml
Have you gotten any new information from the book mentioned? 'The history of the Henry family of 'Flower Hill', Ireland by Margaret Birdenia Henry (main author) and Mattie Miller (added author).
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HENRY is a common surname in County Derry:
The will of James Henry of Coleraine probated in 1685 [Connor admon bond extract PRONI T/808/14882]
Dirtagh is in the parish of Aghanloo, which formed part of the Haberdashers' estate, which was
farmed by Sir Robert McClelland [Lord Kirkcudbright] from about 1616.
An Andrew Hendry is listed in the 1663 Hearth returns for the parish of Aghanloo:
Part of McClelland's estate was inherited by his son-in-law Sir Robert Maxwell:.
There were Henrys in Artikelly in 1695 as the following estate extract shows:
National Archives of Scotland, RH.15/91/49’
Including: 1695, May 1: Rent roll of lands possessed by deceased Sir Robert Maxwell, in Ireland in 1684. 1620, August: Information for the laird of Bombie, on estate and financial affiars. and: Ane rent roll of the proportion of Haberdashers payable yearly.
Andrew Henry, Hugh Henry, Robert Henry
1740 Protestant Householders' returns [no Dirtagh: some of Aghanloo townlands appear
to be missing from the 1740 returns]
But in the townland of Largan Tea in 1740:
Rob’t Hendry, Richard Hendry, John Hendry
John & Matthew Henry recorded in Aghanloo parish Flax Premium List, 1796
In my notebook I had the following:
HENRY OF FLOWER-HILL, AGHANLOO
Rachel Henry, daughter of Matthew Henry and Jennie Long - married her cousin John Henry (1763-1854) who first came to the U.S. in 1788. Rachel was apparently raised in 'Flower Hill' - presumably a farm or other included section of Dirtagh. She reportedly joined John in the U.S.A in 1793.
John Henry was a £10 freeholder in Dirtagh [Aghanloo] around 1832 [PRONI D/834/1].
John Henry was the only Henry in Dirtagh Aghanloo in the 1831 census:
This may be his headstone in Old Aghanloo
Erected to the memory of John Henry, Dirtagh, who died 4 June 1864 aged 84 years. Also his wife Rachel who died 17 July 1862 aged 70 years. Also their son William Henry who died March 20 1891 aged 61 years [executor of William Henry's will was James Henry MD]
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In the Griffith's valuation for Dirtagh John Henry held House Offices (barns etc) and almost 44 acres of land from the Marquis of Waterford.
Unsure of Valuation dates but believe it was 1858/59
Regards
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Griffith's Valuation can be searched by place or name and you can look at the scanned images of the printed pages and there are maps for some areas.
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php
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Thanks to the several responders thus far. While new (to me) sources have been cited, the information only confirms what I already have. What I'd really like to do is to get further details on my ggg gf Robert Henry (b. abt 1730-35) - the one married to Mary Woodburn - in the hope of further tracking my DNA. I have direct father to son to son to son - back to John Henry 1763-1854 - FDTNA Kit 42373, 64 markers, Haplogroup I2b, etc.
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More. Since we have a pretty good fix on Rachel coming from Dirtagh, husband John must have come from fairly close by - at least within 'courting' range - hence the focus on the Limavady-Coleraine corridor.
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Irish genealogical research is far from easy and for the period that you are interested
in (18th century) the lack of source material is a real difficulty. There are no surviving
church records for the parish of Aghanloo where your ancestors resided.
Estate records are sparce - few records appear to have survived for the main landlord
[the Marquis of Waterford].
I assume that you have exhausted all of the available sources on the American side?
One possiblity of course is to undetake a search of the Registry of Deeds [there are
two indexes - by surname and placename], but this would require a lengthy search.
Some details from wills have been extracted and are available at PRONI and the NAI
but again coverage is patchy at best.
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Thanks. To my knowledge I've exhausted US sources - at least those known to me or to those wiser souls who have advised and/or helped. I suspect I'll only get the info I seek if I happen on someone who has already somehow come into possession of lineage data - possibly other Henrys - either in the US or Derry County.
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I have Henrys from Derry county who were miners or ag labourers they moved to Lanarkshire Scotland and married there 1870's.
names:
William.Robert.John.
Also researching Maryann Young.
and Kennedys of Bovevagh & Lower Cumber,Derry County.
sam23
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Thanks. My line was already in the USA by 1800. What (I think) I am looking for are Henrys in the Limavady-Coleraine corridor during the 100 years (and more) prior to 1800 - and that is information difficult to come by. No Young or Kennedy info.
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Sam23,
If you give me some information on your Youngs and Kennedys of Bovevagh I will see what I can find
Regards
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Welcome to Rootschat sam23. Scottish certificates (birth, marriage, death) have far more detail than Irish ones so you should check those for details of parents, exact places in Ireland, etc. first. Scotland also has complete census records while 1901 is 1st complete census for Ireland.
Henry is a common surname in Co. Londonderry and can be Catholic or Protestant. If you give us names and dates and religion it would help us know what's available here in Ireland.
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I have a book of the Henry Genealogy printed in 1922 in Ohio, America
This books records the genealogy of John Henry...who was the second child of Robert and Mary Henry,who was born in Derry, Ireland. (all of the records arein the US.....a brief mention of one his brothers who was basically in Canada. Also a brief mention of his son..who sailed for Nova Scotia, began farming and the history ends there.
I'm interested tracing the history further back...there in Ireland. If anyone has any information to share...that would be great.
Thanks, Ginna
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Welcome to Rootschat, ginna. You haven't mentioned dates of where in Co. Derry but if the Robert and Mary Henry mentioned in your Henry Genealogy are the same as
"Robert Henry, born abt 1730/35.
his wife was Mary Woodburn, b. 7 Apr 1734
And her parents were John Woodburn and Mary Boyd"
then you will see that very few records for that period survive and you need to know exactly where the family lived to search for the few records that do still exist.
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John Henry (1763-1854) was married first to Rachel Henry (abt 1767-1809), my GG GM, daughter of Matthew Henry and Jennie Long of Flower Hill, a small farm on the outskirts of Dirtagh, north of Limavady. Whether or not there was a blood relationship between the two Henry families is not known. See The History of the Henry Family of "Flower Hill" Ireland and Their Descendants, 1926, by Margaret Birdenia Henry and Mattie Henry Miller.
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The History of the Henry Family of "Flower Hill" Ireland and Their Descendants, 1926, by Margaret Birdenia Henry and Mattie Henry Miller:
Does this book contain much information on the Henry family in Aghanloo
or is a genealogy of the family upon and after arrival in Ireland?
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My gr gr grandfather was James HENRY born c1821 in "Londonderry" and married in 1842 in Newcastle upon Tyne England.
His occupation was "miner" and his marriage certificated gives his father as Thomas HENRY "shoemaker".
I have no idea where in Derry he was from . Is there anyway I can make some progress on trying to find his Irish family?
Irene
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The History of the Henry Family of "Flower Hill" suggests that the remains of the generations "preceding our fathers" are resting in the shadow of McGillagan Rocks in the Parish Churchyard, Aghanloo, about two miles from the old Henry homestead,
Margaret Birdenia Henry and Mattie Henry Miller, the 1926 authors of “The History of the Henry Family of “Flower Hill” Ireland And Their Descendants” assert the following in their Introduction on page 6 with reference to the Rachel Henry side of the John Henry/Rachel Henry marriage in about 1787 - “We know that our ancestors came from Ayre, Scotland, across the North Channel to the North of Ireland about the time when the Covenanters came out in open hostility against Charles II and fought the battle of Pentland Hills, November 28, 1666. Matthew Henry remembered being repeatedly told that he was a descendant of these Covenanters, who formed the first Protestant population that was introduced into Ireland. Dr. Eliza J. Hyndman, daughter of Sarah Henry Hyndman, recalls stories of the part the Henrys played in the conflicts with the English throne but these are stories that we cannot verify by actual names and dates.“
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I have been researching a Henry family in Australia for a number of years, and I believe they are descendants of John and Rachel Henry's son John, who was left in Ireland when they migrated to America and he later migrated to Nova Scotia as an adult. As all contact seemed to be lost between them, it is difficult to ensure they are from the same family, however, in John's death registration in 1875 his birthplace was Ireland, 1789, and his parents were listed as John and Rachel. The Australian Henrys are descended from his grandson James Dickson Henry, who travelled widely and included Australia in his travels, before ultimately ending up in California after he left his wife and two of his children in Australia. As there were no registrations for any of their four children, however, we are relying on other resources to complete the family tree. What is of interest is your mention of DNA tracking, as my husband is Philip Henry, a direct male descendant of this line (we feel). Do you have any information as to how he could carry out a DNA test to verify he is indeed descended from the Derry Henrys? It would be of value to us to know if we are looking at the right family, and also to be able to show where that missing Canadian/Australian/American link went if there is a relationship.
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I've heard previously of the Australia connection but have failed to make contact with you or whomever that contact was. My DNA 'provider' is <https://www.familytreedna.com/>. They are probably the largest and most reliable DNA organization in the U.S. I don't know what you know about DNA, but as a male, my DNA data go directly back to John Henry (1763-1854), his father - presumably Robert Henry, etc, etc. - and those data are maintained by FTDNA in the Henry surname file. The 1789 birth date of eldest son John may be problematic in that father John by at least one report first came to the U.S. in 1788. Where do we go from here? I am excited to have made this contact! My email address for direct contact is <(*)>. I am particularly interested in the California connection as that is where I presently live. Do you have any info on the line prior to Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn?
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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This is in further reply to Dawn R. - who I am trying to contact - but have been unable. Let me complicate this a bit further. My previously reported GG GM Rachel Henry, b. about 1767 and married to my GG GF John Henry (1763-1854), was the eldest child of Matthew Henry and Jennie Long, as previously reported. Rachel had 3 younger siblings - one was John b. abt 1771 - who married Rachel McMillan - the point being that there are TWO John Henrys, each married to a Rachel! So this just may be clouding our data a bit - one has to be sure he/she is dealing with the 'right' John and Rachel!
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I too have found the other John and Rachel Henry in Derry, but I don't believe them to be the parents of this particluar John Henry born in 1789 as by my information, Rachel McMillan was born in 1791, and they were not married until about 1816, and had 12 children of their own. (Incidentally, I think these are the John and Rachel referred to by Gortinanima's comments on 2 nov 2008). I have read some of the history of John Henry (1763-1854) in the book written by Heber Homer Henry in 1922, of which I am sure you are aware, and here it does mention that he first sailed to Philadelphia in 1788, but I guess it was possible he left his pregnant wife in Ireland, or even that the child was born in 1788 as 1789 is only an estimate of his birth based on his age at death in March 1875 (86 years old). This is why DNA tracking for Philip would be of interest, as it would also be a direct male line back to the Irish John Henry, and would establish if it is the right family. There are so many Johns, they can become quite confusing!
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Dawn R. - I think we are on the same track. If you will post one more time, we can correspond directly off-line. I can give you as much or more data than you would want about 'our' John and Rachel's children AFTER eldest son John - the one you have all the descendant data on. Incidentally, as a child I met the author of the 1922 book, Heber Homer Henry, and I am in continuing contact with the Henry descendant who currently occupies the 1817 Bern Township farm of John Henry (1763-1854). I also have contact with a John Henry in Canada who is a direct descendant of Robert, the younger brother of John (1763-1854). The 1896 pic I have added to my original post is of my GF Charles (grandson of John and Rachel by their son William) and wife Kate and their 4 sons - my father, twin William M.D., is at the upper left. I am constrained to add that today is my 82d birthday. After all that, I believe our common interest is in more detail on John and Rachel and their ancestry - namely Robert and Mary Woodburn, etc, etc. And while I don't fully appreciate what all we might be able to get from DNA results, I do think it would be valuable for your Husband Phillip to be tested at the 67 marker level so we could confirm our direct lines.
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I was so excited to find this information. Thanks to those who have contributed. I am new at Irish research.
I can not add any new information on John Henry, d 1854, who married Rachel Henry, daughter of Matthew and Jenny Long Henry.
I am researching John Henry, d 1861, son of Matthew Henry and Jenny Long. This John Henry married Rachel McMillan about 1815 and had 12 children, 11 of whom moved to the US between 1836 and 1860. One son, William Henry, remained on the farm - Flower Hill - with John and Rachel McMillan Henry. The Henry Family of Flower Hill Ireland is primarily about the 12 children and their descendants. A few short chapters in the beginning give some of the Irish background of the family, but Dr. Henry has related most of that.
Some acquaintances of William Henry, d 1891, are mentioned in his estate papers, but there is no mention of any Henrys or earlier generations. William's brother Dr. James Henry was the executor. Our line runs from this James Henry.
Gortinanima mentioned a headstone in Aghanloo on 2 Nov 2008. This would be the headstone of John Henry who married Rachel McMillan (according to the "Flower Hill" book). Next month my husband and I are traveling to Ireland. We hope to visit the cemetery, church - Limavady First, and "Flower Hill" farm in Co Londonderry.
Where did John (d 1854) and his wife Rachel Henry live in the US? According to the "Flower Hill" book, they went to Ohio. Do you have more specifics? According to the same book, some of the children of John and Rachel McMillan Henry stopped to visit this aunt and uncle on their way to Illinois. Is there any info about these visits in the Henry book written by Heber Homer Henry?
Perhaps research into land deeds might shed light on earlier generations.
Any suggestions as to other things I could look up about this family at PRONI, the Londonderry Library, or in Dublin would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
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I would recommend that you make a search of the Registry of Deeds but the volumes and index are quite difficult to use [microfilm PRONI].
There is a land index [recommended] and a surname index. The surname index will show Henry's of course but no placenames so they could be anywhere in Ireland. The names index is only useful for rare surnames.
The Land index is broken down by county and the townland and the surname of the people involved in the transaction will be there. So decide on the townlands that you wish to view eg Dirtagh or Largantea where Henrys have been found.
You also need to decide on a time-frame as the registry was set up in 1704. If you are going to concentrate on the period 1704-1800 you might have
several microfilm indexes to look up.
If you find a relevant entry in the index you need to write down the memorial number that goes with it - there will be three numbers - volume number, page number and memorial number. eg, 3, 312, 43987. Sometimes these
numbers are hard to read and the microfilm dark but the most important number is the last one the memorial number.
On the microfilm the page number is usually cut off so I usually search by memorial number.
It is fairly difficult to use - read up on it - get help in PRONI but it could be potentially a useful source.
P.S.- if you are going to Dublin then the Registry of Deeds itself might be worth a visit. I would imagine that it would be a lot easier using the originals.
Moderator's Comment: Reformatted short sentances and very long post.
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I am very pleased that Birdenia has found this site - and also that Gortinanima has made his suggestion for her upcoming trip. Assuming the rather well documented home of Rachel (d.1809) in Flower Hill, Dirtagh is fact - and considering the limited range of 'courting' activities at that time - I am assuming that John (d.1854) must be from nearby - most likely the Limavady/Coleraine corridor. And while that may be an incorrect assumption, it would certainly be the focus of my search were I to travel to Ireland. John (d.1854) is buried in an Athens, Ohio, cemetery - with second wife Margaret McNutt. I have seen and have photos of their grave markers. We have been unable to find Rachel's (d.1809) burial site - although we believe it to be in Warren Township, Washington County, Ohio, where they were living at the time of her death. I urge you to read the Heber Henry book. Have a wonderful and productive trip to Ireland. If you will post 2 more messages, we can chat offline and directly.
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Birdenia,
I live in the area of the farm known as "Flower Hill" and because of the interest raised by this posting have located what I think is the farm in question using the Griffith's valuation map of 1858/9 when the farm was rented by John Henry. It is in the townland of Dirtagh in the parish of Aghanloo and can be accessed from what is now called Windy Hill Road, previously known locally as the Murder Hole Road because of the activities of an old brigand called Cushy Glen. This is the old coach road from Limavady to Coleraine. A good view of the farm can be seen from the Bishop's Road which is on higher ground in the townland of Lisnagrib.
If you would like details I will pass them by personal message (PM) when you have done another two postings, a requirement of this site.
Regards
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I am new to "rootschat" so I am still learning how to do things. I'm having trouble going to the messages. I go to "Search" and tried putting in the subject and Dr. Henry, but it says "no matches." Can someone tell me what else I need to do?
I thought I sent a reply to all of you two days ago, but apparently it didn't get posted.
Thank you for your ideas. I found the coordinates of the farm, Flower Hill, on Griffiths' Valuations with a "1" next to John Henry. When I looked on the map there was a "1a" and a "1b" but they weren't next to each other. I didn't quite know what to make of that. I appreciate knowing the road name and will look at my maps again. In the Flower Hill book there is a drawing of the different fields on the farm, so I have a general idea of the shape of the farm. There is also a drawing of the house.
I am a little confused about how the ownership of land works in Ireland. Griffiths says John Henry was the occupier and the lessor was the Marquis of Waterford. I'm assuming this means John Henry leased the land from the Marquis of Waterford who owned the land. When son William Henry died, the estate papers said the estate was "sold" to Matthew McElmoyle. Would there also be a record when William Henry got the land after his father John died?
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Birdenia,
The Griffiths maps are quite difficult to navigate unless you know the area or have a comparison with a modern large scale Ordnance Survey Map. I have re-checked the Griffith original page and there is no 1a and 1b and I have also confirmed this on the map. When you look at the map and adjust the scale you should clearly see DIRTRAGH and to the west LISNAGRIB.
Most of the land in Ireland was owned by very large landowners and let to various farmers up until the 1880s when various acts of parliament allowed farmers to start to buy the land they had leased. With almost 44 acres John Henry was a large farmer. The changes in ownership are shown in Griffith Revision Books which are available in the Public Record Office Northern Ireland (PRONI). They are made up of townlands in a particular Electoral District.
The farm is still owned by the same family who took over from William.
Regards
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I am new to "rootschat" so I am still learning how to do things. I'm having trouble going to the messages. I go to "Search" and tried putting in the subject and Dr. Henry, but it says "no matches." Can someone tell me what else I need to do?
If you go to search page and put 'DrHenry' (all one word, no punctuation marks) into username box and Henrys in the word box you would probably e able to find this thread but since it's recent there are several easier ways to find it-
1) click on Derry/Londonderry board and scroll down a little bit looking for the thread
2) even easier since you've only a few posts- click on your profile, then click on your posts and find it
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Many thanks for the hints!
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Were there naming patterns for the Ulster-Scots in the 1800s that might be helpful in searching for early generations or cousins in the Henry family?
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Hi,
Yes, there is a distinct naming pattern. First son named after the father's father, second son named after Mother's father. The third son named after the father and then the father's eldest brother and so on. A similar pattern applied to girls where the first would be named after mother's mother and so on. Be aware, this was not written in stone.
Regards
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Hello Bobby, I hope you don't mind if I try to claim you as a relation. My name is Robert Forrest, my father's name was Eddie, from Craig, Magilligan. His Daddy was Robert from Myroe. His father was George from Pound Street. His father was George from Irish Green, his wife was Annie Mullan - I believe. Yours sincerly. Robert Forrest.
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Re: Kingskerswell"s answer, second above. I received the following from a Henry researcher in the U.S. when I cited it -
"Don't put too much stock in this naming pattern. In one group of Henrys from County Londonderry/Derry, each of the men named their first son after the wife's father, and the first daughter after the wife's mother, and none of the men named their first son after their father unless he had a middle name that I don't know about!"
So Kingskerswell's caveat that it is "not written in stone" appears to be well taken. Nevertheless, I find both versions useful as research leads.
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Does anyone know why the Henry farm in Dirtagh was called Flower Hill?
The townland was part of the Marquis of Waterford's estate. I have tried to find rentals and leases for his
estate in PRONI with only limited success. Perhaps there are is Waterford estate material in the National Archives
in Dublin which might contain Limavady material?
PS. Songster - Robert - you are a 2nd cousin once removed but need to post three times in order to activate the
Personal Message [PM] service and then I can give you additional information on the family.
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Hi,
I have also wondered about the name. I know that the west facing side of the mountain known as Binevenagh was famous for its honey because of the profusion of wild flowers and herbs. I think that the eastern side may also have had wild flowers. That's my guess.
Regards
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1871 sale catalogue- The Estate if John H. De La Poer, Marquis of Waterford-
Lot No. 115 The Townland of Dirtagh
William HENRY 44a 1r 12p
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The book,"The Henry Family of Flower Hill, Ireland," does not state why the farm was called "Flower Hill." In the text and in the diagram of the farm, (opposite p 18) are listed Flower Garden and Sally's Garden. The Sally Garden had fruit trees and flowering shrubbery. The rest are called fields, meadows, and parks, with two other names with which I am not familiar - Goose-wing and Shelldale. Both authors mention fuchsia trees framing the door.
I think Kinkerswell's explanation is probably correct. Margaret Birdenia Henry was there in the spring and mentions the banks covered with buttercups, primroses, daisies and rockets. She also writes that they will be there a month "among the flowers" which may have meant on the farm or on the hillsides. Mrs. James Henry pressed flowers during the 1891 trip to Flower Hill; the flowers are framed with a drawing of the house.
I have tried to find rentals and leases for his
estate in PRONI with only limited success. Perhaps there are is Waterford estate material in the National Archives
in Dublin which might contain Limavady material?
Would the rentals and leases be at the Registry of Deeds or do they only have deeds for land sold? I will check the web site for the National Archives to see if Waterford estate material is listed.
Aghadowey, can you tell me how to find the 1871 sale catalogue? I was excited to see this and would like to try to get a copy.
Many thanks again for all your wonderful help!
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I'm not sure how many copies of the sale catalogue were printed (it's a huge, thick, heavy volume) but some of the tenants certainly got them as several still exist locally. I had one and copied details of each lot but no longer have it. Under each lot are listed the tenants, amount of the holding, annual rent, rights of way and sometimes detail of previous leases.
Probably PRONI is the best place to try first- search using their e-catalogue.
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Bobby, Don't know quite what to say other than, 'Thanks'. Nice to 'meet' you. Bob.
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I have a lengthy (17 pgs) but relevant email from John Henry of Canada that cites sources and other material that I think would be of interest to Aghadowey, Gortinanima, Kingskerswell, and possibly others - but I think it is too long for this forum. If those cited will give me their 'regular' emails by PM - or otherwise advise me how to get the message to them - I'd be glad to forward it accordingly.
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My name is Jacqui and my father Fred McIlmoyle owned the land known as Flower Hill Farm which belonged to the Henry family and sold to Matthew McElmoyle (a cousin of his grandfathers) in 1891. Dad sold the farm about 20 years ago. He had the privilege of meeting Birdenia last weekend (20 September). Thank you to Bridenia for directing me to this site. Over the past 25 years we have had quite a few visitors to Flower Hill and I was so delighted to see this discussion on this forum. Unfortunately I am not able to help you as regards the older generations of John and Rachel Henry but am very keen to help in any other way. I notice a discussion on here about Rachel Henry's younger sibling John who married Rachel McMillan (got quite confused about this for a while!). We had visits for 1 couple who were descended from this marriage - Ann Henry who married Wilson but unfortunately have lost this link probably as a result of old age. I am really keen to hear of the connection from William Henry's family - I know there were 11 other siblings and Birdenia coming from one of them. Please respond Dr Henry - I am keen to know where you come in on the tree!
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There is one other family - the Countryman's from Alberquerque who are supposedly directly related to William and James Henry - Bill was in the airforce and visited us first just using the address given on the little Henry Book - how it arrived was amazing. His wife was Swedish and were tracing their roots. I know that Bill and Wanda had 3 children - 1 boy and 2 girls. Again if anyone knows their whereabouts I would be so glad as would my dad.
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I note there is a request on bbc web site from you Dr Henry and a person responded by the name of Karen Anderson. Karen visited us as one Sunday afternoon and we did receive a Christmas card from her but since then nothing. I would be interested to get in touch with her too! Sorry for the numerous postings but trying to get onto PM so I can chat directly with some of you!
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I'm so pleased that Birdenia made contact with you and that you are online. Pretty much all I have to offer is in message #1 - John and Rachel Henry are my great great grandparents and I am descended by way of their son William 1804-1882, his son Charles 1842-1926, and my dad William 1872-1963. I am into DNA and have found male 'cousins' in the same line in Australia and Canada - possibly more will come from that. My quest is to confirm that John (b.1763) Henry's parents were Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn - to find out more about them - and then possibly on back from there. Thanks so much for being helpful to Birdenia - I can't wait to hear what other bits of information she picked up on her trip.
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Thank you so much for replying Dr Henry. At least I can add another part to the tree!
Having spent most of the afternoon with my dad (who has a copy of all these messages) I have not sorted out what happened after the farm was sold to Matthew McElmoyle. His son Henry took the farm over but was sold to my grandad, his cousin. Matthew was not well for most of his life and died at 54 although his wife continued to live 35 years after him. My dad says that Henry's wife seemed to accumulate debts which led them to sell the farm and after they moved off the land my grandad received a telephone call to come to their house one morning where unfortunately the wife Anna had died suddenly.
My dad did remember the original sale documents from the McCausland estate to William Henry's father being in his possession at one time and it was very few pounds from his recollection. Matthew did not live far away from the Henry farm at the time of purchasing it - nearer Stradreagh which is a townland above my father's farm - and he sold that piece of land to buy "Henry's". This is always what the family referred to when they were talking about Flower Hill Farm.
Dr Henry I see you refer to John and Rachel Henry's son William - I am confused as I thought William was the son left behind in Ireland???
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The son left behind - the eldest child - was John - or John Jr. - as I refer to him. John Jr. eventually migrated to Nova Scotia and at least some of his progeny further migrated to Australia - which is the line Phil Henry (partner Dawn Read) claims. My g gf William was the 7th child of John and Rachel. The sequence of John & Rachel's children, incidentally, was John Jr, Matthew, Janet, Robert, Nancy, Mary (Polly), William, James, and Rachel. Since baby Rachel was born on Oct 20, 1809 - and John's Rachel died in 1809 - we suspect she died during or shortly after childbirth - hence the name of baby Rachel.
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I have today sat down and entered all the details contained in this site and what Birdenia has given me as well as info in the bit of the Henry book I have - just to get my head around who all is who! It is quite confusing! I have now worked out that the second child of John and Rachel Henry (Ann) is related to one of the couples who came to visit us twice. I would really love to make contact with them again but I am sure that is impossible now as they are probably in their 80's now. Also thanks to Birdenia I have made contact with Karen Anderson - thank you for that! I am going to try and work out where she comes into the tree now.
Lastly may I apologise because I think I have broken the rules as regards naming people who are still alive in my postings - I am sorry about this and offer my sincere apologies if this has been against the rules of this website.
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The Ann (b.1819) you speak of was the second child of Rachel McMillan and John Henry - and the latter was the younger brother of my gg gm Rachel Henry and the son of Matthew Henry and Jennie Long. Presumably my gg gm Rachel Henry and her younger brother John Henry were raised at Flower Hill; presumably Rachel McMillan and Ann are only associated with Flower Hill by way of Rachel McMillan's husband John - who is Ann's father. While my intent with the foregoing is/was to clarify the relationships and further differentiate between the two John and Rachels, rereading causes me to doubt that I have done that. I believe Birdenia (actually her husband) is in the John Henry/Rachel McMillan line by way of their daughter Ann. So while Birdenia's husband's line is to Matthew Henry and Jennie Long, mine is to Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn AND Matthew Henry and Jennie Long. Now what could be clearer! So while you are digesting (dissecting?) that, perhaps you can put me in contact with Karen Anderson and I'll attempt to similarly confuse her! And lastly, please go slow in your apparent low expectations from those in their 80s as I am now well into that group and most (not all) of my friends consider me to still be 'with it'.
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my grandmother sarah ( saraid) Henry married dan diamond and lived in ringsend co derry. I am looking for their birthplaces and parents. sarah died around 1981 and is buried with dan her husband in st mary' s churchyard bellerin, derry
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my grandmother sarah ( saraid) Henry married dan diamond and lived in ringsend co derry. I am looking for their birthplaces and parents. sarah died around 1981 and is buried with dan her husband in st mary' s churchyard bellerin, derry
Welcome to Rootschat. The information you want to find is very recent (remember not to give details of living people here) and there are lots of Henry and Diamonds in the area so you'll need to start by checking their birth certificates for names of parents and birthplaces (townlands) to start with and then other sources like church records, 1911 census, etc.
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Maureen,
on 18 May Daniel Diamond married Sarah Gertrude Henry in Garvagh RC Church.
In the 1911 census there is
Bridget Henry Ballyrogan (Glenkeen) Co.Londonderry a 50 year old widowed farmer. Married 20 yrs
Anne Mary 19
Hugh Joseph 17
Richard John 16
Catherine Agnes 14
Sarah Gertrude 12
On 2 Apr 1891 Hugh Henry married Bridget Higgins in Garvagh RC Church . These are likely to be Sarah's parents but this would need to be confirmed.
Regards
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hi amazing that is indeed them. Hugh jr died on the day he came from a ww2 german POW camp in the US - killed by a train, so sad. Sarah thee is my grandmother. Is there any way to find out my grandfather's parents and town of birth- I forget the birth/ death date on the grave in Bellerin ( I lived with my grandmother every summer in Derry growing up)
Richard, annie , passed away Richard, in Brooklyn, and Annie in Portrush when she returend after a lifetime in America so that is them.
My grandather had a brother dennis diamond who emigrated to Philadelphia , but Dan returned and bought the farm from the money he made with dennis working on the railroad in Pennsylvania. And to show your work is so life changing - I found a cousin I never knew I had yesterday through info on our grandmother LIzzie Callahan.
If you have any info on Daniel and Dennis Diamond I would be so grateful ( his parents names , DOB) he is buried in the St MAry's churchyard in Bellerin with my grandfather but I think he dies somwhere between 1930-1950
thank you so much@! :)
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You'll need either your grandmother's birth certificate or church record of her baptism to get names of both parents. Boleran records aren't online but index to civil registration is- you can look up birth in index then order the certificate.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
Details on ordering N.I. certificates here-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,383526.0.html
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Maureen,
With your reply I have reviewed my original post and noticed that I missed the year of Daniel and Sarah Gertrude's marriage. It was 1920. Will have a look for any other information.
Regards
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Maureen,
I am having difficulty locating Bellerin. I am aware of the area known as Bellarena but the RC Church there is St. Aidans. It is in the north of Co. Londonderry bordering on Lough Foyle. Can you or another help?
Regards
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Ballerin [Boleran] is on the road from Ringsend to Garvagh,
it is a small village built near a chapel.
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Ballerin [Boleran] is on the road from Ringsend to Garvagh,
it is a small village built near a chapel.
There are quite a few spellings but it's not a village although there are some more new houses built nearby.
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Gortinanima, Aghadowey,
Thanks for the directions, I can see it on the Ordnance Survey map with the church on the right as I drive from Ringsend to Garvagh.
Regards
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:) When I was growing up there I called it the Irish outback. It is indeed between Garvagh and Dungiven. The church on Bellerin road I think ,before you get to Bradley's general store.
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Thanks Maureen.
Regards
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THx This is St Mary's Ballerin, where my grandparents are buried:
http://www.northcoastni.com/filestore/downloads/garvagh-booka.pdf
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THx This is St Mary's Ballerin, where my grandparents are buried:
http://www.northcoastni.com/filestore/downloads/garvagh-booka.pdf
Here's some pictures of St. Mary's (on Boleran Road)-
www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/C8019
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Ireland is beautiful and her people are so kind and gracious!
We found the Henry family farm called Flower Hill, thanks to several helpful folks. The current owner was not home. I took a few photos, but because the old buildings are gone it is hard to visualize the farm as it was when the Henrys lived there. We also found the Old Aghanloo Cemetery where the Henry stone is. My photo of the whole stone is not readable because the light was not good or in the wrong direction. I did take close-ups of various parts from different angles and some of those are readable. I'm going to ask my son to help me improve them. We walked around the cemetery, but did not find any other Henrys. Some of the stones are impossible to read. We did find a stone for "David Long, Lisnagrib, who died 12 June 1901, and his wife Esther, who died 19 Feb 1881. Also their son David who died Apr 1882, Robert who died 12 Oct 1904." I found this significant for two reasons: Matthew Henry b circa 1745 married Jennie LONG; and David LONG leased the farm next to Flower Hill according to Griffith's Valuation. Does anyone in the Limavady region know anything about David LONG or his ancestors?
I also found the newer (old) cemetery along the Aghanloo Road surrounding the Church of Ireland. I didn't find any Henrys there but did find a stone for Rev. George and Mary Catherine Craig. I wonder if they were related to John Craig who came to the US in 1836 with his wife and Matthew Henry b 1817 (first of John and Rachel McMillan Henry's 12 children).
More in next message.
Birdenia
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A reprint of The History of the Henry Family of "Flower Hill" Ireland and their Descendants may be ordered from Higginson Book Company. The web address is http://www.higginsonbooks.com/genhe043h.html.
I found two items at the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland. I obtained a copy of William Henry's will (1891) from the microfilm. He was the 8th child of John and Rachel McMillan Henry, who remained on the farm "Flower Hill" with his parents. There were several bequests to the Limavady Church and the rest went to his brothers and sisters or their descendants. I suspected he never married or had children, and his will supported that assumption as neither wife nor children were mentioned. If anyone wants details, let me know.
I also found the 1871 sale catalog which Aghadowey mentioned. The title is Landed Estates, Court Rental, sale particulars and maps relating to the estate of John Henry de-la-Poer (Marquis of Waterford) and of John Leslie and the Honorable Edward Kenyon and his trustees in the Baronies of Coleraine and Keenaght, County Londonderry and the town of Coleraine. D2096/3/2. I ordered photocopies of the relevant pages. There were other items listed under the Marquis of Waterford, but we didn't have time to go through them.
Birdenia
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The McCausland estate is a new name to me.
My dad did remember the original sale documents from the McCausland estate to William Henry's father being in his possession at one time and it was very few pounds from his recollection.
I thought the farm Flower Hill had belonged to the Marquis of Waterford before William Henry "bought" it in 1871. I know there were several men who had the title Marquis of Waterford, but I don't remember this name. It might be helpful to find out more about the McCausland estate.
Birdenia
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My father always "assumed" that McCauslands owned the land around Limavady - they still live near the town of Limavady and have been selling land recently which was believed to me in the original land ownership from way back in the 1800's. Is it possible someone could shed light on this?
I think my dad would really love to know the details of William Henry's will.
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Hi,
If you Google DRENAGH there is some information on the McCausland family who lived in this estate. An older house on the estate was known as FRUITHILL.
Regards
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The evidence appears convincing that Rachel Henry (b. abt 1767) came from Flower Hill (Newton Limavady) in Derry County; her parents were Matthew Henry and Jennie Long; and she (Rachel) married (in 1787) John Henry (b. 20 Mar 1763), bore his children, and in due course emigrated to the U.S.
And the family lore I'm familiar with says that John Henry came from somewhere in Derry County - presumably within 'courting' distance of Flower Hill - and that his parents were Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn.
In trying to gain more specific info about the origins of John, I looked at the family trees in Ancestry.com which include John, AND show his parents as Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn. (There are a number of contemporary John Henrys, so I narrowed the search to specifically include Robert and Mary as his parents.) There are on the order of 20 family trees recording 'our' John Henry - and the variances in his reported locations of origin are worth noting. You can't weight them according to the number of times used because many are presumably just copies of the others - and I suspect there is no proof for any of them. While about half said John was from Derry County, the others either said he was from Antrim, or Derry, Cavan.
As I understand it, both Antrim and Cavan are other counties in Ulster. Does this suggest that perhaps we should be looking in those two counties, in addition to Derry, for 'our' John Henry? Or I wonder if 'Derry, Cavan' means something else - such as perhaps he was born in Cavan County but later moved to Derry County. Have any of you heard of Antrim or Cavan Counties somehow associated with John Henry or his parents, Robert Henry and Mary Woodburn?
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Dr. Henry,
There are three townlands in the County of Cavan called DERRY and one called Derry More and another called Derry Beg.
Regards
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VERY interesting and useful. Looks like a good lead; I'll bet we're on to something. Any suggestions as to how I might seek out pre-1800 Henry info in Cavan County, with emphasis on the three Derry townlands? Thanks so much!!
FYI - I am also looking in Ayr and Ayrshire for any early 1600 info which might shed light on the Henry emigration from Lowland Scotland to Ulster. DrHenry
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I think the key to all of this is Mary Woodburn.
There were Woodburns near Garvagh, county Derry and when you
put the 2 surnames together Henry/Woodburn I immediately think
County Derry!!
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You well may be right - I don't want to become so enamored of the County Cavan possibilities that I walk away from our search of long standing in Derry County. Nevertheless, I think I'll start a "Henrys of Derry, Cavan County - Pre 1800" parallel thread just in case we can turn up something there. After all, unless Rachel Henry in Flower Hill, Newton Limavady, was a cousin or other family relative of Robert Henry, Mary Woodburn, and their son John Henry b. 1763, how would they have negotiated the lengthy courting distance between Cavan and Derry Counties? However, I guess True Love has managed such distances and greater in the past! DrHenry
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Link to Co. Cavan thread-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=415511.new#new
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Never having been to Ireland, I'm having a little trouble with geopolitical designations. We've pretty well established that Rachel Henry, b. abt 1767, was the daughter of Matthew Henry and Jennie Long who lived at Flower Hill, a farm located on the outskirts of Dirtagh - the latter being a townland generally north of Limavady, east of Londonderry, west of Coleraine - and included in Aghanloo Parish. She is also reported as having come from Newton, Limavady, Londonderry. Is Newton a townland? Does Newton embrace Dirtagh? Will someone clarify the apparent contradictions? DrHenry
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Newtownlimavady is the former name of the present town of Limavady.
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The name was formerly changed by an act of Parliament about 1875 when the name LIMAVADY was used but it is still possible to find informal documents after this date which still referred to NEWTON, an abreviation of Newtownlimavady.
Regards
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To attempt a resurgence of interest in this thread, let me just mention the Bann Valley Henrys. I believe Rachel Henry b abt 1767 near Dirtagh could well be considered a Bann Valley Henry. My question now is to John Henry b 1763 - could he also be a Bann Valley Henry? And if not, how might he have developed a relationship with Rachel sufficient to lead to marriage in abt 1787? At age 24, his means of transportation were scarce - and pretty much limited to Shank's mare, if not the mare herself. Perhaps an 'arranged' marriage? Other ideas?
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I just found an Ancestry.Com entry for John Henry 1763-1854 that lists "Brookfield" in Derry County as his place of origin. We found that "Flower Hill" was a farm on the outskirts of Dirtagh where his wife Rachel Henry came from, perhaps "Brookfield" was also the name of a farm in the 1700s - any thoughts? (Another Derry location for John Henry's origin says "5296" - although I believe that may just be code with meaning only to the poster.) DrHenry
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Hi,
I wondered if Brookfield should read BRACKFIELD, a townland on the current A6 road between Claudy and City of Londonderry. There is the remains of a well known Bawn (fortified house) in this townland.
Regards
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Brackfield is in Cumber Lower parish & part of the Skinners' estate [later Ogilby estate]. There were Henrys in the parish in the 18th century but none in Brackfield in the 1740 Protestant householders' survey.
1740 James Hendry in Gosheden, Cumber Lower
1740 William Hendry in Mullaboy, Cumber Lower
1740 Saml Hendry in Listress Cumber Upper
1796 James Henry 2 wheels in Cumber
1796 James Henry, 1 wheel in Cumber
1796 John Henry, 1 wheels in Cumber
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Hi,
The two James and John in 1796 are described on another site as Cumber Upper. I believe that the Parish of Cumber was split in 1794 into Upper and Lower.
Regards
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Just realised there is an 'unofficial place' by the name of Brookfield in the townland of Boghilboy in the parish of Desertoghill in the Barony of Coleraine.
Henrys in Desertoghill parish
1663 Patrick M'Henry in Gortacloghan [Gortnecloghan]
1740 Jn Henery [no townland given]
1740 Robt Henery [no townland given]
1831 John Henery in Ballyagan
1831 Machel Henry in Craigavole
1831 Dennis Henry in Magheramore
1831 Thomas Henry in Moneydig
1831 John Enery in Movenis
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Brookfield is the name of a house in the townland of Boghilboy- I know it well and have researched its' history. Fairly sure that John Henry 1763-1854 did not live here.
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I have a James Henry, who was researched by my Aunt who wrote a paper on our Henry family here in the US. She says that James and his wife Jane lived in Newton Limavady, in the Parish of Drunachose, Poor Law Union of Limavady, County Londonderry, Northern Ireland, until about 1827 when they, with their 7 children, immigrated to the states. I have none of her resource material and would really like to find the source for this information. Jane, the wife, died in 1832 at about the age of 40 so I assume James was born in the 1780's or 90's. She gives the children as William (b. abt. 1813 in Derry), Mary (b. 7 Nov. 1815), John (b. Nov. 1818), James H. (b. 17 Mar. 1821), Robert (b. Aug. 1823, Derry), Nancy (b. 21 Mar. 1825, Derry), and Sarah (b. 8 Mar. 1827, Derry). They arrived in Ohio about 1830 so would have left Ireland between 1827 and 1830. Anyone have any ideas? Help would be greatly appreciated.
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Andrew Henrie is recorded on the rent roll of Artikelly, collected by Herbert Maxwell in 1610
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Depends what type of Henry you are doesn’t it? Isn’t there two distinctive Henry tribes in the Coleraine area? An Ulster Scots Henry and an Irish Henry?
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Maureen,
I am having difficulty locating Bellerin. I am aware of the area known as Bellarena but the RC Church there is St. Aidans. It is in the north of Co. Londonderry bordering on Lough Foyle. Can you or another help?
Regards
It’s outside Ringsend lol.. how could you as a Limavady man not know where that is? Irrespective of your religion.
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Explained back in 2009-
Ballerin [Boleran] is on the road from Ringsend to Garvagh,
it is a small village built near a chapel.