RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Siouxsie on Monday 03 November 08 02:18 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for my great grandmother Ellen Kelleher was is listed in the Tasmanian archives (I have sent off requests to them for information....waiting to hear).
What I know is that she was born by 1867 (where I don't know) and that she married my g grandfather John Thomas Hutton on 5/5/1886 at Emu Bay Tas. They then had 4 children Frederick John, John Thomas (my grandfather), Mary Victoria (who married James Knight from Balldale) and Robert Francis. I have birth dates for them all bar Mary and I have her birth year.
But it really is Ellen Kelleher I am curious about. My g grandfather remarried in 1912 as a widower, so she died somewhere between 1898 and 1912 when her last child was born.
Any clues????
Susie
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It is possible she wasn't dead but just vanished and your greatgrandfather may have had her declared dead after 7 years so he could remarry
Jenn
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:o
Oh Jenn,
I hadn't even thought about that possibility.........are there easliy accessible files on people declared dead?
Susie
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Hi Jenn and Susie,
I don't think it is that simple to have someone declared dead. Just disappearing isn't enough reason for the law to be satisfied you are dead. There has to be evidence of an accident such as an empty boat that you were known to have gone out in, a failure to return from a bush walk you were seen taking, unidentified remains found in an area you were last known to be (in the days before DNA testing ::) ::)etc.
The person wanting to have someone declared dead has to make application to a Court (sorry don't know which one, probably the Supreme Court in Australia) and there has to be a legal enquiry. If the application is successful and the person is declared dead, a death certificate should then issue.
Andcarred
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Many thanks Andcarred. Sounds like a Welsh name I know.
I have located a myriad of Ellen Kellehers in Cork through familysearch.org ......now to work out which one......if any of them are her.
Susie......off to Sydney to pick up OH from his trip north to see his children.
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Hi susie,
Mary Victoria was born 15th November 1886 at Emu Bay Tasmania.
RDG 1252/1887.
Haven`t found anything on Ellen Kelleher as yet.
Her name is transcribed Keleher in her marraige indexes. Have you got a marriage cert for Ellen and John Thomas Hutton. That may give you where Ellen came from.
Johngirl
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Hi susie,
Found a electoral roll record for a Ellen Amelia Kellher on An***try.
The records are for between 1901-1936.Sorry but I don`t have access to view the record.
Some kind person may be able to check this for you.
Your Ellen may have just toddled off and John Thomas may have divorced her. This might be her living elsewhere without the husband. The records are for the division of Darwin in Tasmania. It may help but I`m not sure.
Johngirl
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As requested
1914 District of Darwin, Subdivison Leven
KELLEHER John Thomas, Ulverstone Produce Agent
KELLHER [sic] Ellen Amelia, Ulverstone Dom duties.
This appears to be the wife of a John Thomas KELLEHER, but with a transcription error with the spelling of the surname.
Cando
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Dear Johngirl,
Just out the door to Sydney and thought I would have one last check......many thanks for Mary Victoria's birth.....where did you get it from?
I have a girlfriend who has access to ancestry.com.....I'll email her when I get home from Sydney this evening.
Susie.......travelling!
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Before I can leave the amazing Cando has looked it up........wonder if that is her......sounds like she was married to Kelleher, but that was her maiden name. Her married name was Hutton.
Really am having to head to Sydney.....his flight gets in at 5.20 and it's and hour and a half to the airport!
Talk tonight
Susie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thankyou so much Cando,
Dont know if this will help Susie but there was no harm in checking. Thought it may have been Ellen Hutton gone back to her maiden name living somewhere else.
Johngirl
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Have you got a marriage cert for Ellen and John Thomas Hutton. That may give you where Ellen came from.
Tasmanian marriages certificates from that period did not record birth place and parents names of the parties being married unfortunately.
With the assumption of death ater 7 years we are talking of the turn of the 19th century not present when it was a lot easier for this to happen.
Jenn
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Hi tropicalj,
I should have known that as I have a few marriage certs from Tasmania myself.
Not thinking to straight today.
Johngirl
Hi Susie,
Sorry forgot to say got Mary Victorias birth from Tasmanian Pioneer indexes.
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No worries Johngirl just pointing that out so Susie doesn't reach for her creditcard ;D
In trying to find anything on Ellen Keleher
there are the following also at Emu Bay
wondering if they are siblings of Ellen's
KELEHER CATHERINE aged 16 married JOHN COLE aged 23
28/5/1884
Registration Place: EMU BAY
Registration Number: 120/1884
Reference: RGD 37
KELEHER CORNELIUS adult married Elizabeth Jane WILLIAMS aged 16
30/1/1882Registration Place: EMU BAY
Registration Number: 97/1882
Reference: RGD 37
KELEHER ELIZABETH RUTH BERTH born 11/8/1886
Father CORNELIUS
Mother WILLIAMS ELIZABETH JANE
Registration Place: EMU BAY
Registration Number: 1312/1886
Reference: RGD 33
KELEHER MARGARET aged 18 married
MORWICK George aged 23
26/9/1881
Registration Place: EMU BAY
Registration Number: 454/1881
Reference: RGD 37
Jenn
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Dear Jenn, Johngirl and Cando,
Many thanks for looking out for my credit card. I was about to order their marriage certificate, but will hold off now. I had noticed those other Kellehers at Emu Bay (Burnie) and had hoped they were siblings of Ellen's but I am unsure as to how to prove that until I have some way of verifying Ellen herself.
Still don't know how she got to Tasmania as she isn't listed there as a birth.
I have found several Ellen Hutton's in the Australian census living in Victoria but Ancestory won't let me go further and view the records. I have asked a friend to look it up for me and am waiting the results.
Again many thanks,
Susie :D
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Whacko. I think a friend of mine, the amazing Judy, has located Ellen's birth.
Here is what she sent me. I will be following it up.
"I have just checked out the John Keleher on the Waratah list and found his son John born in Bendigo soooo..... searching the Victorian BDM I found.
John Keleher married Margaret Lynoyne (somewhere in Victoria. You will need the certificate) in 1858.
All the following children have John Keleher as their father:
Cornelius born 1859, Back Creek, mother Margaret Lennane.
Mary born 1861, Sandhurst, mother Margaret Lennanrd.
Margaret born 1863, Back, mother Margaret Lynanan.
Ellen born 1865, Sandhurst, mother Margaret Linnane.
Catherine born 1868, Sandhurst, mother Margaret Linnaid.
John born 1870, Sandhurst, mother Margaret Linnard.
Sandhurst was the old name for Bendigo. Back Creek was part of it as well.
This family must have moved on to Waratah as the parents are apparently both buried there."
Delighted by the variety of spellings for the mother's maiden names!
Susie :D :D :D
(A very happy girl indeed)
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Thats great news Susie.
Let us know how you get on.
Was that from the list I found on the mining town of Waratah.
Johngirl
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Dear Johngirl,
Sure was from that list. My friend Judy is a much more experienced Genie than I am, and followed the Keleher (one "L" not 2) trail. Not certain yet if this this the right Ellen, but I have my fingers crossed. Tropicalj is following up something that may prove this lead is not the right one, which narrows down the search.
It would be good to find her.
Susie
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I`m also not a very good Genie ;D
Hopefully you are on the right track.
I have been searching as many cemeterys in Tasmania that I can to see if I can find your Ellen. No luck as yet but will keep searching.
She may not have a headstone which makes it a bit harder.
Johngirl
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Dear Johngirl,
Many thanks for searching cemetries.....she should have been a Hutton at the time of her death.....but as I am learning, she could have been anything!!!
My grandfather Hutton remarried in 1912 stating that he was a widower, so she should have died by then, but again, as I am learning......that may not be the case and they may have divorced!
One step at a time!
Susie
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There is only 1 Ellen Kelleher death & that is on 22 March 1915 at the Latrobe Hospital. Reg No: 975 (Tas Federation Index.) There is no deaths for an Ellen Hutton between 1900-1930.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Dear Mike,
Many thanks......much appreciated. i will follow this up.
Susie
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Hi Susie, I'm afraid that this isn't her because I looked at the Australian Electoral Rolls on Ancestry & there is a family of Kelleher's living at Forthside (now called Forth) in 1914. Ellen & Nellie, domestic duties, John Snr & Jnr, Farmer's, Dennis, Farmer & Patrick Kelleher, also a Farmer at Forthside. Sorry I haven't replied to your email through RAOGK to me as yet Susie but I've been flat out! If I get a chance, I'll have a look at TAMOIT (Tasmanian Tombstone & Memorial Inscription's), I have it on micro-fiche at home, so I'll look for Ellen Hutton/Ellen Kelleher but if she's not on Fed Index she won't be on TAMOIT unless she died after 1930?
Mike.
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Just me again! I had a quick look in "Wills" on Tas Archives Office website & there's 1 for an Ellen Hutton in 1963, which would make her nearly 100 years old, so may not be her or could be if she divorced?
Regards,
Mike.
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Dear Mike,
If that is her.....wow!!!! But where has she been hiding for all those years! I will follw up with the Archives office.
How do you do your thumb at the start of your replies?
Susie
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Hi Susie,
Yeah, Wow if that was her hey? To choose the thumb icon, when you start a post, under subject, there's a message icon box & you can choose different icons. If it is her will in 1963, you can always order her death certificate through Tasmanian department of Justice re: post 1900 BDM's but it will cost $34.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Dear Mike,
Thanks for the thumb tip. Great little addition to a post. I will definitely follow her up....if she was over 100, then i want to know where she was for all of those years!
Have a great evening,
Susie ;D
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I think that Ellen was born in Victoria, as her siblings listed all have the same names as those that married in Emu Bay Tas (thanks for this information Jenn). I have contacted the Tas Archives Office and Ellen and John Thomas' marriage certificate doesn't have place of birth or parent details but I know that they were married in Emu Bay.
The Tas Archives also says there were 4 children.......3 of whom I can account for, but Frederick James Hutton (born 1898) remains a mystery and as Ellen seems to disappear after his birth I am wondering if she took him with her and he is the key to finding out what happened to her.
I know she didn't die in Tasmania pre 1930, she isn't listed in NSW, QLD deaths (or marriages) online. I have checked a couple of Victorian records, but have pai for the online to find out they weren't my Ellen.
I am now getting desperate and think Ellen and John may have divorced.......any hints on how to research divorces.....the probable states would be Tas, Vic and NSW as I know John was in all three states prior to his remarriage.
Other news......I think (not verified until I get the certificates) that my husband's forebears were on the 2nd and 3rd fleet......won't I have fun when I come to do his side of the tree!!!!
Still desperately searching for Ellen.
Susie
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Hi Susie,
Tasmanian Archives have divorce indexes from 1861 up to 1920. The only Hutton divorce in Tasmania is below. This is in 1919.
Petitioners Surename HUTTON Petitioners given name ASHLEY Respondants Surename HUTTON respondants given name LILIAN Co Corespondent HENRY HILL reference number. SC89/1/12 1919 403 .
Johngirl
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Hi Susie,
Not sure if I`m onto something here regarding Ellen Hutton but I have found where a Ellen Hutton was mentioned in Patient Records-Admission Papers for The Royal Derwent Hospital in New Norfolk Tasmania.
The date is 17th September 1891. It says her birth year was 1865.
It also says there may be more than one admission for each person which could mean that this person may have been admitted again at other times probably after this date.Could be your Ellen Hutton. This may be why she vanished.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/default.aspx?detail=1&type=S&id=HSD285
This is the link where if you scroll down you will find Ellen Huttons name.
Johngirl
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Good find there Johngirl.
Susie,,
do you have where and when you ggrandfather John Thomas Hutton died?
did he remarry in 1912 Tasmania?
Jenn
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Dear Jenn and Johngirl,
My ggrandfather died in Inverell NSW in 1946. His 2nd marriage was to Hilda Mary Adcock in 1912 at Redfern, Sydney.
Johngirl has found that the hospital Ellen was admitted to was for the mental patients, so that might explain her long absences from the family. She also could have died at the hospital, but I feel that she would be listed as a death somewhere. I am waiting for the hospital record to come from Tas Archives. As they lived in Emu Bay/Waratah at the time of her hospitalisation and the hospital is near Hobart, he must have been very ll for them to have made such a journey in 1891!
As the family story is that she disappeared and abandoned the family, I feel that she has now been vindicated......she was in hospital! I feel now that John Thomas abandoned his family to the nuns.
I have searched Tas, Vic and NSW divorce records of the day, and there is no divorce listed, so I have to assume John Thomas was stating the truth that he was a widower when he remarried.
I also suspect that as two of the children, Mary and Jack never talked about Frederick that perhaps Frederick was adopted out or died very young. I think the adoption angle has some merit.....another thread to chase, and the housework is still calling loudly.
Susie ;D :D
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The more I delve, the more I am sure Ellen was born in Victoria and her family moved to Tasmania. I have located her mother and father in Waratah along with a couple of siblings, and I suspect her father's (possible) twin brother Cornelius. Her father had a son called Cornelius too, so I think that Ellen's family followed Cornelius' family to Tasmania....more specifically Emu Bay and Waratah.
If I could just now find Ellen's death and what happened to her fourth child Frederick I would be a happy chappie.
I have asked the Tasmanian Archives for her hospital records and will see if there is a coroner's report......but Fred still remains a total mystery.
Progress, but not finished yet!
Cheers
Susie
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A thought here
what period of time were the children in the orphange was it after Fred was born?
Jenn
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Dear Jenn,
I know that Aunty Mary Knight spent most of her life in orphanages both in Tasmania and Victoria, my grandfather from when he was a small boy, so I am assuming it was before Frederick's birth. She was hospitalised before he was born and not long after Robert's birth and then 7 years later she reappears and has Frederick. So.....my real answer would be both before and after, which might explain why the children never knew about Fred, as they were farmed out when he was born.
Cheers
Susie
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I think I might have suggested this allready but given the gap in yeas perhaps Fred may have had a different father? It would be interesting to see his birth certificate.
Jenn
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The Tasmanian Archives give John Hutton as the father so I suspect the birth certificate would have been the source for this entry. If he wasn't the father he has been named ad such in these records.....and that is always a possibility. However he was apparently born at Emu Bay (Burnie) which is a fair hike from New Norfolk where the hospital was (close to Hobart).
Cheers
Susie
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I am very excited ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I just got 5 pages from the Tasmanian Archives. Ellen indeed went crazy, and the first instance was listed as the day her third child was born. She believed the doctor had harmed her, she tried self harm and attacked her husband and son (my grandfather).
Recent research has shown that bi-polar disease in women most commonly manifests after childbirth so, having read the doctor's reports and accounts, I would say that the poor dear was suffering from this now treatable disease. There goes the family myth that she had run away!
She was admitted in June 1891 and discharged in April 1897. Then (if the birth record has recorded the father correctly), returned home and had Frederick on 18 August 1898.
Then........disappears.............in fact both seem to disappear. Wonder if she died in childbirth along with Fred.......surely that would show up in the Tas records?
Still hoping we can finish Ellen's sad story.
Cheers
Susie
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I just checked the whole week of the birth and there are no deaths for either mother or son.
Jenn
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I just checked the whole week of the birth and there are no deaths for either mother or son.
Jenn
Thanks Jenn.........I hope this sad life doesn't remain a mystery at the end.
Susie
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Hi Susie,
Happy that you finally have those records from the Tas Archives.This gives you a few more answers.
But where oh where did Fred and Ellen disapear to ???
Surely she didn`t marry some else and has a different surename :o
Oh well we will keep searching ,Ellen and Fred must be somewhere in burial records in Oz.
Ellen was born in Victoria [Bendigo] wonder if she decided to go back there after she had Fred. She may have had relatives still living there. ???
Johngirl
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Dear Johngirl,
I reckon that she went back to hospital......call it a gut feeling, but she didn't register the birth of Robert for 3 months, which to me would indicate that she might not have been all that well, but if she was suffering a mental illness that had it's onset at childbirth, then Fred may have triggered another episode.
To this end I have asked the Tas Archives if she was re-admitted and if she died at the hospital and I have been scouring the handwritten microform converted to digital records of the Victorian asylums (fascinating reading) where the rest of the family ended up. If she died in hospital and there was an inquest there may not be a death certificate per se. (Have heard this from several people now who have located rellies through inquest findings). I am going to the NSW State Archives next week and will look up the NSW asylum records if I haven't located her by then.
Fred.........well, her family moved to Waratah, so I wonder if he was just absorbed into the larger family, or indeed, if he was adopted out. :(
I have the sense that he may always remain a mystery, but for some reason, I am determined to find out what happened to the much maligned Ellen. :D :D :D
Susie
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Hi,
Just thought I would let Ellen resurface as I have just received a copy of her husband's 2nd marriage certificate and it definitely states that he was a widower and he remarried in 1912 in NSW.I thought maybe it was time to do an Australian wide search.
Her married name was Hutton.
So far we have searched Tas to 1930, NSW BDM, NSW Coroner's Reports, Victoria BDM, Victoria Inquests, Queensland BDM's.......can some kind soul check SA and WA in the hope that she shows up somewhere. I have asked the Tas State Archives if there is an inquest record, but haven't heard back yet.
The last record we have of her is in 1898 in Tasmania giving birth to her last child with Hutton, Frederick ( a child none of the other had heard of). He moved to Victoria/NSW border before relocating to Inverell.
Would really like to finish Ellen's story.
Cheers
Susie ;D
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Hi Susie :)
Second attempt...don't know where my last reply went.
Have searched WA & SA death indexes...nothing for Ellen.
Cheers
Cando
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Dear Cando,
Many thanks for the 2nd time search ;D ;) ;)
Any clues on what/where else to try?????
Cheers
Susie :D
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Okay.......have just tried NZ board with no results........any suggestions as to what else I can try to find Ellen Kelleher/Hutton?
So far we have searched Tas to 1930, NSW BDM, NSW Coroner's Reports, Victoria BDM, Victoria Inquests, Queensland BDM's, SA and WA BDM's and now NZ with now luck.
Can you think of any avenue I have missed.
Cheers
S :Dusie
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Me again....yes I am obsessed with trying to solve this mystery.
Just had a thought that if we could find Frederick getting married or dying, we might get a handle on where/when Ellen died.
I have checked NSW and Qld with no luck....could a kind rootschatter who has access to Tas, SA and Vic do a quick check on Frederick James Hutton for marriage/death please.
Many thanks in advance (and anticipation !)
Susie ;D
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I did do Frederick Hutton in Victoria up to 1984 but no luck, he does not appear on the Electoral Rolls availabe on A...y at the moment. I feel that one of the girls also checked SA for his death too
A copy of his grandmothers will might turn up something you never know.
I did ask Joppo to check Tas and he wasn't chowing up there
Jenn
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Dear Jenn,
We sure could do with some of the tropical warmth down here at the moment.......it has rained heavily all day (yes, sometimes the tropics are like this too!)
Many thanks for the searches........much appreciated. I was hoping to solve this mystery before Christmas as i am putting together a pictorial family tree-not the "proper formal tree" (with some social commentary) for my mother for Christmas. Up until we discovered on here that Ellen had been hospitalised, she had believed that Ellen had done a runner, and she had no idea about Frederick.
Cheers
Susie ;D
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Frederick is certainlye very intriguing, I suppose he could have been adopted out if Ellen took ill again ad Dad couldn't cope. He may have stayed with the Nuns.
I did wonder if he was killed in WW1 but no sign of him on the NAA
Jenn
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Dear Jenn,
Very intriguing......I had just looked at the Service records too! Frederick wasn't with the three children who went to the nuns (and I have a formal request with the Sisters of Charity Archives to see if they have records for the kids). The Orphanage is in Hobart, so if Elllen was re-admitted then they both may have travelled to Hobart together as that's where the hospital is.
Mary (the sister) spent time in another orphanage in Victoria......so I suspect my grandfather did too.
I have also rung Waratah and asked them to check the old Cemetery records for Ellen.
Cheers
Susie
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I might have asked this before (so please forgive if I have) but do you have anything to confirm he lived past infancy?
Jenn
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Dear Jenn,
Nothing concrete expect that Ellen didn't register his birth until 3 months after the event and didn't register a death at the same time.....or am I being too hopeful!
Cheers
Susie
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This mystery deepens ::)
My great uncle now tells me that Ellen's husband should have been living in Corowa by the time of the birth of Frederick in 1898.....so, if any one has access to the Sands Directories from 1895-1900, I would be grateful if you could look and see if John Thomas HUTTON was in Corowa during this time.....he was a barber (and a trapeze artist)....... ;D ;D ;D ;D
MTIA
Cheers
Susie :D
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Hi,
I have to confess that have not read the thread entirely, so please forgive me if this is already in your files.
I cannot help with Country Directory in the years you request, BUT...
Sands Country Alphabetical Directory 1903
Hutton, John Tobacconist Corowa
[as you would know, tobacconists were very often barbers]
Same Directory 1905=same entry for John
Same Directory for 1909 = no indexing for John.
Sue
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Hi Again,
And just to confirm he is your man ,if this information is not already known to you, he voted at Corowa at the Federal Election under his full name of..
JOHN THOMAS HUTTON, Barber of Corowa.
There are no other Hutton's voting at Corowa that day.
Sue
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Fantastic.......my real quandry is was he in Corowa before 1898? Any clues on how to find out?
Cheers
Susie :D
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Hi,
I can't help you with country Directories other than those I have listed and later.
Corowa District Historical Society
PO Box 154 Street, Corowa, NSW 2646
Ph: 02 6033 2189
I would think this group may have access to records and maybe Directories too.
Perhaps you could make contact.
Another R. chatter may have more extensive reords than me.
Sue
ADDING Of no real use to you, but you may like to know that the Federal Electoral Roll of 1903 also shows ..
ADCOCK, HILDA MARY. female COROWA , Domestic Duties.
No addresses are listed on this roll, but it sounds possible they were living together those many years before they married..
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Dear Sue,
Many thanks for your info.......Hilda was born in Corowa, and lived in a de facto relationship with a John Rees and they had 3 children (the last born in 1898 (sadly 2 died in infancy)........not sure when she and John separated, but not at all surprised that they were living together (he had 3 kids to look after!!!!)
My real dilemma is......was John Thomas the father of Frederick (Ellen's child) who was born in Waratah Tas in 1898....he is listed as the father, but my uncle suggested today that his mother Mary started school in Corowa, which means that John would have been in Corowa by 1896 ish.
Where to from here.....any suggestions? Have tried Corowa Hist Society.......no answer yet.
Cheers
Susie :D
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Just had a thought......wonder if Ellen Hutton was registered to vote in Tasmania in the early 1900's? Would prove she was still alive in Tasmania at least!
Cheers
Susie ;D
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There is only one Ellen HUTTON on the Australian Electoral Roll in Tasmania and she is listed at the same address as a George, a grocer's assistant....in 1919, 1924 and 1936.
Cheers
Cando
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Dear Cando,
Many thanks.......that is the other Ellen Hutton that we had previously discovered. :(
So, what does this mean :
Ellen was no longer in Tas by 1919 (or dead).
Her husband John was listed as owning a shop in Tas in 1890, and voted in the Federal Elections in NSW in 1901
She birthed their third child in 1891 and was promptly put in the Psych hospital until 1897
She returns to Waratah and has Frederick in 1898, naming John Hutton as the father. Then disappears!!!!!!!!
Family stories/myths???? are now putting John Hutton at Corowa prior to 1898.......and my next big question is why did he move from Waratah (where his in-laws and family were) with three small children who would have needed care to Corowa..........to set up a barber/tobacconist store which is what he had in Waratah.........what took him to Corowa where he had no relatives?
So......how to prove John Hutton was in Corowa prior to 1898, or prove that he and Ellen had Frederick together in Waratah in 1898 which may lead to unearthing what happened to Ellen and Frederick.
Arghhhhhhh
Cheers
Susie :D :D
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Her husband John was listed as owning a shop in Tas in 1890, and voted in the Federal Elections in NSW in 1901
Just noting there....The election was 1903 not 01.
And briefly to your question....
and my next big question is why did he move from Waratah (where his in-laws and family were) with three small children who would have needed care to Corowa..........to set up a barber/tobacconist store which is what he had in Waratah.........what took him to Corowa where he had no relatives?
Possibly Hilda Mary Aldcock ;D
Sue
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Dear Sue,
Sorry.....it certainly was 1903......wouldn't be surprised if Hilda took him to Corowa, but if she was born and raised in Corowa, had three children there with another man.......how did she entice a Tasmanian? Can't see her travelling to the wilds of Waratah for a holiday...it was a mining town, nor can I see him and 3 kids doing a trip to Corowa for a holiday either (pretty as it is)............and if Ellen was in hospital from 1891 then he would have needed child care from then, and Hilda had her last child with John Rees in 1898 whereas the family story/myth I am now looking at is that John and the kids were in Corowa around 1895 ish.......maybe it was another woman and it didn't work out......would like to put him definitely in either Corowa or Waratah in 1895-1898, so then we know if Ellen's 4th child was his (she registered him as the father)........and here I was thinking it was my generation of baby boomers who make such messes of their lives!
Cheers
Susie
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The plot thickens.....just got a copy of John Hutton (Ellen's husband) obit.
It states that "In 1895 he sought fresh fields and ventured into NSW and entered business in the quaint old Murray River township of Corowa." If this is true, then he cannot be the father of Ellen's child born in 1898 after her release from Royal Derwent Asylum.
However, the obit also states that his father was made a school teacher, and as yet I have seen nothing to substantiate this claim (although who knows with this family).
If his claim is true.....then Hilda Mary was not the reason for moving to Corowa.
Did he pop back and visit Ellen and Frederick is the result......how did he know he was a widower......more and more questions arise!
Merry Christmas
Susie ;D :D ;D
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Have just had the following reply from the Tas State Archives
"have checked the Pioneers Index, Federation Index, Colonial Links Database, the Newspaper Index and the Inquests Index for the record of Ellen Hutton's death and/or a coroners report, however unfortunately there is no mention of her death"
So I guess that rules out Tasmania!
Cheers
Susie :(
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Just to add some further information to Ellen. I've found possibly three more children born to Ellen and listed under the name of Hutton.
1. James Hutton born 18/8/1903 at Highfield Father: N/S - Mother: Ellen Hutton nee Keleher.
2. Adeline Hutton born 12/10/1905 -Forest Father: N/s Mother: Ellen Hutton nee Keleher.
3. Reginald born 20/11/1907 - Marrawah -Father N/S - Mother: Ellen Hutton.
There were no deaths for an Ellen Hutton/and or Keleher in the Advocate Newspaper and the Zeehan and Dundas Newspapers and the Launceston papers (or any of the children as well) (I checked this morning when I went to the library!).
There is no mention of any Ellen (or children) in the TAMIOT microfiche(Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions of Tasmania). I have also checked the Undertakers Records, Queenborough Cemetery Records, Cornelian Bay Cemetery Records, Mercury Newspaper records (up to 1930) and anything else I have.....which I might add are Southern Tasmania only.
Perhaps Ellen had taken the latter children's father's name????? So unless there's a death notice of her parents or siblings actually naming the family (and hopefully with Ellen's name!)
Also with her having the last child Reginald at Marrawah.......that's quite a long way from anywhere (although it's a good surfing spot ).
Sorry, can't help more.
Webby
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Webby,
I see you found Susie`s post. ;D Thankyou so much for helping out with the search of Ellen. I have tried finding her but had no luck.
More children to Ellen Hutton :o :o This is interesting.
Marrawah would have been a one horse town back in those days. I lived there for about twelve months until my father passed away.
Johngirl
edit ;D I spelt Marrawah wrongly. I did live there but was only just over twelve months old at the time so forgive me for not spelling it correctly. ;D
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Just to add some further information to Ellen. I've found possibly three more children born to Ellen and listed under the name of Hutton.
1. James Hutton born 18/8/1903 at Highfield Father: N/S - Mother: Ellen Hutton nee Keleher.
2. Adeline Hutton born 12/10/1905 -Forest Father: N/s Mother: Ellen Hutton nee Keleher.
3. Reginald born 20/11/1907 - Marrawah -Father N/S - Mother: Ellen Hutton.
There were no deaths for an Ellen Hutton/and or Keleher in the Advocate Newspaper and the Zeehan and Dundas Newspapers and the Launceston papers (or any of the children as well) (I checked this morning when I went to the library!).
There is no mention of any Ellen (or children) in the TAMIOT microfiche(Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions of Tasmania). I have also checked the Undertakers Records, Queenborough Cemetery Records, Cornelian Bay Cemetery Records, Mercury Newspaper records (up to 1930) and anything else I have.....which I might add are Southern Tasmania only.
Perhaps Ellen had taken the latter children's father's name????? So unless there's a death notice of her parents or siblings actually naming the family (and hopefully with Ellen's name!)
Also with her having the last child Reginald at Marrawah.......that's quite a long way from anywhere (although it's a good surfing spot ).
Sorry, can't help more.
Webby
Dear Webby,
I am overjoyed.....totally! ;D ;D ;D
Many thanks for searching her out........Marrawah is a long way from anywhere indeed. Thank you for checking at the library and all of your files......I am overwhelmed by the help and interest people have shown in trying to locate "my Ellen".
Again,
Many thanks
Susie ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Good morning,
Well, along with Webby's amazing discovery yesterday of three additional children for Ellen, I also received in the post yesterday some information about Ellen's husband John Thomas Hutton and his whereabouts when she was released from the hospital in 1898.......he had already set up shop in Corowa (a barber and tobaccanist shop in fact). This would mean that Ellen's fourth child Frederick was not John Thomas' even though his name is one the certificate. Can I say that the service from the Corowa Federation Museum was superb....and they were interested in finding out more. The $20 research fee was well spent.
So...where does this leave us....I will start a new thread based on Ellen's children and hope we can locate them, but I would like Ellen's thread to stay alive until we can locate her death.....I live in hope!
An Ellen Hutton has been located in several census' living in Easey Street Collingwood.........but not sure yet if this is her as she has none of the kids with her.
I have also had a PM saying that another Rootschatter's relative married well before a former patient of the Royal Derwent Hospital was in fact dead.......so maybe John Thomas Hutton was a bigamist and my assumed dates for Ellen's death has been wrong.
Cheers
Susie
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An Ellen Hutton has been located in several census' living in Easey Street Collingwood.........
Census? perhaps electoral rolls.
I wonder if Frederick went into care is it possible the other chldren did as some point.
I have checked Victoria deaths and no sign of them The Fathers name could be totally different but the mothers name would be the same unless they were adopted out.
Jenn
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Glad to help where I can...I just love a mystery!.
I also have a situation whereby one of my ancestors was unfortunately admitted to Royal Derwent by her husband and left there (from 1916 I think)until her death in 1944.....he had remarried in South Australia in 1926 and stated that he was a 'widower'.
Not only did he remarry, he seems to have forgotten his children from this marriage as well!. I do know that he did take the two daughters from Tasmania (then left them in an orphanage in Melbourne!!)...but as to his sons, I'm assuming family members took them in.
Webby
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An Ellen Hutton has been located in several census' living in Easey Street Collingwood.........
Census? perhaps electoral rolls.
I wonder if Frederick went into care is it possible the other chldren did as some point.
I have checked Victoria deaths and no sign of them The Fathers name could be totally different but the mothers name would be the same unless they were adopted out.
Jenn
Dear Jenn,
Many thanks for the Victorian death search.
Cheers
Susie
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Glad to help where I can...I just love a mystery!.
I also have a situation whereby one of my ancestors was unfortunately admitted to Royal Derwent by her husband and left there (from 1916 I think)until her death in 1944.....he had remarried in South Australia in 1926 and stated that he was a 'widower'.
Not only did he remarry, he seems to have forgotten his children from this marriage as well!. I do know that he did take the two daughters from Tasmania (then left them in an orphanage in Melbourne!!)...but as to his sons, I'm assuming family members took them in.
Webby
Dear Webby
Again many thanks....I love a mystery too....I put that down to being a detective's daughter (and a librarian to boot!) :D :D :D
Here I was thinking all along that he married the second time around legitimately....but that may not be the case...he did "sort of" look after his children......Mary went to a convent and the others were looked after by him and the nuns......but enough from me about him as I have his history....I want to put Ellen to rest.....I feel she has been done wrong and would at least like to honour her memory.
Cheers
Susie :D :D :D
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I'm just looking through the Electoral Rolls at the moment and cannot come up with Ellen or any of the children under the name of HUTTON.
Were Ellen's parents and siblings in Tasmania around this time (early 1900's?)
Webby
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I'm just looking through the Electoral Rolls at the moment and cannot come up with Ellen or any of the children under the name of HUTTON.
Were Ellen's parents and siblings in Tasmania around this time (early 1900's?)
Webby
Dear Webby,
Ellen's parents John and Margaret are buried in the Old Cemetery at Waratah....he died in 1899 and she died in 1912. The siblings were Cornelius, Mary, Margaret Catherine and John. Margaret married George Morwick and she died in Waratah in 1920. John married Ellen Godwin and he died in Launceston in 1922......the rest I have yet to trace.
Cheers
Susie ;D ;D ;D (a very happy Susie)
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Do you have the Morwick children?
There is a couple of Cornelius Keleher's and one is too early. He married a Bridget RYAN in Hamilton in 1852 (he was 24 & she 22). The next one was at Emu Bay on 30/1/1882 this Cornelius was an adult and his bride was Elizabeth Jane WILLIAMS aged 16.
I have the children for both of these Keleher/Morwick's if you need them.
There isn't any mention in the southern Mercury newspaper for any of the Keleher's mentioned in your post, so I'll have a look when I go to the library again (for the Northern papers). Looks as though they didn't come this far South!!.
Regards
Webby
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Do you have the Morwick children?
There is a couple of Cornelius Keleher's and one is too early. He married a Bridget RYAN in Hamilton in 1852 (he was 24 & she 22). The next one was at Emu Bay on 30/1/1882 this Cornelius was an adult and his bride was Elizabeth Jane WILLIAMS aged 16.
I have the children for both of these Keleher/Morwick's if you need them.
There isn't any mention in the southern Mercury newspaper for any of the Keleher's mentioned in your post, so I'll have a look when I go to the library again (for the Northern papers). Looks as though they didn't come this far South!!.
Regards
Webby
Dear Webby
I have 3 Morwick children but I don't have the children for Cornelius. I do have all the McGeorge children (and there are lots! ;D).
I also think Catherine married John Cole, but I have no children as yet. I also have the Keleher/Godwin children, including the amazingly named Etraweenia 8) ;D.
So....in answer to your initial question...it would appear that Ellen had a number of family around her.
Cheers
Susie ;D
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Hello there Webby
do you have the Federation index for Tasmania please?
Jenn
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Jenn.....I do have the Federation Index....do you require a look up??
Susie
Etraweenia was listed on the Index as Etraveen!!!
Morwick kids to George & Margaret are:
1. Richard James 23/9/1884 - Emu Bay F: George M: Margaret KELLHOR
2. Edith Lilly 15/9/1886 Emu Bay F: George M: Margaret KELLEHER
3. Elizabeth 28/9/1888 Waratah F: George M: Margaret KELEHER
4. Eliza Maud 30/7/1890 Waratah F: George M: Margaret KELEHER
5. George 24/4/1897 Waratah F: George M: Margaret KELEHER
6. May 25/11/1898 Waratah F: George M: Margaret KELEHER
I think the following children could belong to the above Elizabeth?
1. Walter Morwick 27/1/1913 - Devonport F: N/S M: Elizabeth
2. Violet Baronia 24/12/1916 W.Devonport F: N/S M: Elizabeth
and Eliza Maud perhaps is the Elsie Maud Morwick.
1. Elly Mervyn Morwick 6/11/1910 - Zeehan F: N/S -M: Elsie Morwick
2. Ellen Morwick 2/2/1913 - Devonport F: N/S -M: Elsie Morwick
(death for Ellen Mary Morwick 18/4/1914 W. Devonport)
3. Eric Benjamin Morwick 27/4/1918 W.Devonport F: N/S - Elsie Maude Morwick.
Edith Lilian married Herbert Charles Lancelot Glozier at St James church, Waratah on 25/12/1913.
May Morwick married Keith Ray on 16/5/1923 at Penguin.
There is also a death for Elizabeth Morwick on 25/9/1927 at Waratah.
CORNELIUS' kids.
1. Adeline Lucinda 22/4/1884 - Ulverstone: F: Cornelius M: Elizabeth Jane Williams.
2. Elizabeth Ruth Bertha 11/8/1886 - Emu Bay F &M as above.
3. Emma Annie 19/8/1891 - Waratah F: Cornelius M: Jane Williams.
4. Florence Nellie 1/1/1896 - Waratah F: Cornelius M: Elizabeth Jane Williams.
5. Oliver Osmund 9/4/1898 - Waratah (F &M as above).
Webby
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Just asking to check if you did look for any births relating to the three children you found, which I feel sure you would have.
What year does the marriages extend to please?
Jenn
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Dear Webby,
You are a star.....many thanks. :-* :-* :-* :-*
.....and so much information!!!!!!!!
I also have a birth for an Ernest Morwick born 1883 died 4 July 1883.
These girls (including their aunt Ellen) certainly had a tough life! :o :o
Cheers
Susie
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The births for the Hutton/Keleher kids were in the Federation Index.
I didn't put the references in unless Susie requires them as after 1900 all BD &M's are only obtainable from the Registry of B,D &M's and they require some $35.00 per certificate.
The marriages in the Index go up to 1930 (as do the deaths) Births up to 1919.
Webby
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Susie
Ernest Morwick 27/6/1882 (and died on 4/7/1883) at Emu Bay was the son of a Richard Morwick and Mary Ann Deverux.
Webby
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Dear Webby,
Fantastic.....just removed him from my rellies list! :o
As yet, don't think I require certificates for these family members........but when we find Ellen's death, then I will pay mega bucks for that! ;D
I am now intrigued........and I probably should have read the "Resources" before starting this reply..........where do you get BDM's pre 1900 from?
Cheers
Susie
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Same place as the ones I have given to you no doubt from the Tasmanian Pioneer Index ;)
Jenn
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Dear Jenn,
Ohhhhh.....I worded that badly, and I knew as soon as I posted it...... :o
What I really wanted to know is (and maybe I have confused what Webby posted).......where are pre 1900 certificates obtained from?
I seem to spend half of my life on the online Tas State Archives site but alas it only gives years of birth/death/marriage and the CD gives so much more information which I am always grateful for.
Cheers
Susie
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Susie
Pre 1900 are available at our local libraries.....where you can obtain the entries (filmed from the original registers) - they only charge for the photocopy - about 66c- cheapest in town!!.
Only after 1900 do you pay the $35.00....it's a pity that you can't get the 'transcriptons' as the NSW BDM allow for some $14.00....much easier when you don't need the 'proper' certificate!.
Which ones do you require and I can get them when I go to the library.....you only need the reference number and I have them anyway on the CD's.
Cheers
Webby
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Dear Webby,
This is such a generous offer, I am bowled over.......how close are you to the library?
I would love Ellen Keleher and John Hutton's marriage certificate 5 May 1886
and Ellen's 7 children if that's not too much to ask
1. Mary Victoria Hutton 15 November 1887
2. John Thomas Hutton 1 March 1889
3. Robert Francis Hutton 23 May 1891
4. Frederick James Hutton 18 August 1898
5 . James Hutton 18 August 1903
6. Adeline Hutton 12 October 1905
7. Reginald Hutton 20 November 1907
Please let me know how much all of this costs (including your petrol costs in these days of fuel prices!) and I can't tell you just how touched I am by your offer.
Cheers
Susie
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Hi Susie
I will certainly obtain the certificates that you require before 1900.....but the one's after 1900....sorry....they are the expensive ones!!!!!!!.
I should just let you know that the marriage certificate (prior to 1900) will only show the names of bride & groom; date; occupation; and witness' and whether the parties signed their name or an "x" - I think only after 1898 show the father's name....and the births will show - date of birth, the name of the child, parents name (and hopefully Mum's maiden name) and the person who registered the birth - so don't be disappointed if you don't get the info you were hoping for!!!.
One other suggestion I would like to make is that you could perhaps register for the Rootsweb mailing list of Tasmania (there is a Burnie branch) which is Aus-TFHS-BB-admin[at]rootsweb.com.
This mailing list being in the area that your Hutton/Keleher family are from may be very useful...as no doubt there are family members still living in the area.
Best wishes
Webby
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Dear Webby,
Oops......in my excitement, I forgot about the 1900 cutoff! :D
However the marriage certificate comes is wonderful....it will be interesting to see if they signed or X'ed. I will certainly register for the mailing list.....and hopefully connect with some more rellies (living oes!)
Cheers
Susie
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Hi Susie
Well I have your copies of Ellen & JT's marriage together with the birth registration of the kids. Interesting to note that the father's occupation went from a Labourer (with Mary Victoria) to a Hairdresser!!!! until the last birth which Ellen registered and she had JT as being a Barber!!
Whilst having a look at the Launceston Examiner Newspaper 1897-1899 the following death was listed I think is Ellen's father.
27/1/1899 - KELLEHER John. A native of Co.Cork Ireland and late of Bendigo Victoria on 19 January at his residence, Walker Street Waratah aged 71 yrs 5 mths 2 days (Bendigo, Vic papers please copy).
Couldn't find anything else unfortunately. :(
If you would like to send me your mailing details (by private message) I will post the sheets on to you.
Webby
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Hi Susie
Well I have your copies of Ellen & JT's marriage together with the birth registration of the kids. Interesting to note that the father's occupation went from a Labourer (with Mary Victoria) to a Hairdresser!!!! until the last birth which Ellen registered and she had JT as being a Barber!!
Whilst having a look at the Launceston Examiner Newspaper 1897-1899 the following death was listed I think is Ellen's father.
27/1/1899 - KELLEHER John. A native of Co.Cork Ireland and late of Bendigo Victoria on 19 January at his residence, Walker Street Waratah aged 71 yrs 5 mths 2 days (Bendigo, Vic papers please copy).
Couldn't find anything else unfortunately. :(
If you would like to send me your mailing details (by private message) I will post the sheets on to you.
Webby
Dear Webby,
Many thanks.....you are a star ;D ;D ;D ;D
John started out as a tin dresser at the Bischoff Tin Mine in Waratah, Tas before becoming a barber/tobacconist and then set up a shop in Waratah. He then moved to Corowa, again opening a barber/tobacconist shop before he settled finally in Inverell NSW where he again opened a barber/tobacconist shop.....in his spare time he apparently was a trapeze artist! ;D ;D
Cheers
Susie
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Dear Webby,
Many thanks for the certificates.........much appreciated. ;D ;D ;D
They arrived yesterday afternoon and I will pass them onto my mother when I visit her next week......she is very excited to see them.
I have made the decision to have the Tas BDM do a search for Ellen's death.......... She was last documented in 1907 having Reginald, but the Tas Federation Indexes go up to 1930 and she hasn't been located on them.........so I will take a punt and go for a search from 1930-1960 (she would have been 95 in 1960)........wish me luck.
Cheers
Susie ;D
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Hi Susie :)
I wish you luck as well....you and you mother really deserve a good outcome to this search.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Susie
I'm glad you received the certificates ok and I know your mother will enjoy looking at them.....I think you have made the right decision re Ellen and the children.
It surely would be great to find out where she went!!!
Did she take the three children with her!!
Or if not and they stayed in Tasmania.....were they using a different name!.
More questions than answers......as usual!
Regards
Webby
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Dear Webby,
Just back from the gym having been brutalised by a trainer! ::) ::) ::)
The certificates are making the trip to my mother's next week and she is already excited about seeing them. Again....my profound thanks.
I am getting a search for Ellen's death done in Tasmania and hopefully that will yield some results (and possibly brand my great grandfather as a bigamist! :o :o :o :o) and if it's successful, I will then tackle the other 4 children (Frederick was born after JT Huton had gone to NSW although his name was on the certificate and none of the original 3 children knew of his existence :o).........and if needs be, tackle them state by state!.......although if they were adopted/farmed out/used another name, then I may be in for a real mystery!
Cheers
Susie
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Hi Susie,
I have found details of the people that are buried at Marrawah Cemetery.
Sorry but there are no Huttons buried here. I have sent an email asking for any information that they may have on the Huttons.
Will let you know how I go.
Johngirl
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Dear Johngirl,
Many thanks indeed.......much appreciated.
Cheers
Susie ;D ;D ;D
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Good evening,
At long last, I have just received a letter from the Tasmanian BDM in response to my 30 year search for Ellen's death.
Alas, there is no record of her death (in fact I even received a certificate to that effect) and there is a very detailed search history.
The only clue is a wild one, but I am following it up with the Tas Archives.......there was a Florence Victoria Beatrice Hutton who died in 1942 at Lachlan Park Hospital (previously the Royal Derwent Psych Hospital) where Ellen had previously been a patient......she also had a daughter living at the hospital with her. This woman is the right age, so I am following this lead.......maybe she had a flight of fancy and called herself Flo !!!!!
Also, in the last three birth records, Ellen gives differing dates for her marriage as well as describing herself as a widow in 1907 when Reginald was born. This is the birth that was registered at Marrawah.....and the birth record notes she was living at whales Head.
Just thought I would fill you in on what progress I had made. (all information is progress I have discovered ;D ;D)
Cheers
Siouxsie :D :D
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Wow Susie,
Sorry you still haven`t found her but I also think that Ellen may be Flo. ;D
I`m sure I did find a Florence Hutton buried at the New Norfolk Circle Cemetery. It was in a book I borrowed from the State Library. I must get it out again and have a look.Will let you know what I find.
Regards Johngirl
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Dear Johngirl,
Sure has been an interesting journey trying to track my Ellen.........and I would not be surprised if Flo is her! If I could find out if her daughter's name who was with her in Hospital was Adeline, that would clinch it!
It would be amazing if you were able to locate her in your book........does it give grave locations etc?
Hoping this is the turning point and am very grateful for all the help and support from all on this board!!!!!
Cheers
Siouxsie ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello there Everyone
I am also very happy to hear that perhaps Susie may have had a breakthrough, will watch this space with avid interest
kind thoughts Jenn
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Just realised the book is a not for loan book I found the entry in. ::)
Will be off too my Library ASAP to check it out.
I remember seeing that entry and also wrote it down but of course I can`t find the piece of paper I wrote it down on. I didn`t think it was anything to do with Ellen Hutton but as it was the only Hutton buried at New Norfolk Cirlce Cemetery I wrote the details down[I had to scan the old brain for that one ;D]
I`m sure I`m not just imagining this ;D
Will have a search about and see if I can find that elusive piece of paper also over the weekend. ;D
Johngirl
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Dear Johngirl and Tropical Jenn,
Many thanks for cheering on our Ellen search......and thank you Johngirl for searching for the elusive piece of paper........hope it turns up!
Cheers
Siouxsie ;D ;D ;D
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Hi
I believe Ellen may also be my great grandmother and wondered if you were aware of a second marriage?
Thanks
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Hi Beth,
I am not aware of a second marriage.......I would be delighted to hear that she had remarried.
Do you have any further information?
Siouxsie
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Hi Ellen
My grandmother was Eileen Mary heald prior to her marriage(S).
Her mother listed on her marriage certificate was just listed as Ellen and I believe it was the same.
The child born Frederick Hutton I believe died Frederick James Heald of Smithton and must have changed his name to suit her new husband. His will is available on line.
I am a novice and haven’t explored this much further and wondered if you had any way of following up.
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Hi Beth,
Do you know when Frederick died? And who and when Ellen possibly re-married? And when Eileen was born?
I can possibly start investigating with that information.
Cheers
Susie
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https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fNAME_INDEXES$002f0$002fNAME_INDEXES:685238/one?qf=NI_INDEX%09Record+type%09Wills%09Wills&qu=Heald
Link to fredericks will
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Many thanks........it looks like his wife and daughter were no longer around by then.
Siouxsie
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Eileen died on 10/12/1966 and I can’t quite read the age it was 6_ on her headstone.
I was told she had a sister called Hilda and a brother Fred.
This Frederick never married he is Ellen’s son.
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I just found a record of birth for Eileen
10 feb 1901 @ Stanley
Mother - Ellen keleher Heald
Father - Frederick Heald
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Hi Beth,
Ellen Hutton (nee Keleher) was discharged from the New Norfolk Asylum in April 1897. She subsequently gave birth to Frederick Hutton in August 1898, in Burnie listing John Hutton as the father, however, John at that stage was living in Corowa, and there is no indication that he returned to Tasmania.
Then, I have an Ellen Hutton giving birth to a James Hutton in 1903 and Ellen was in Highfield, Tas (no father recorded), and then Adeline Hutton in 1905 (again no father and Ellen was listed as living in Forest, Tas) then she had Reginald Hutton in 1907 (she is listed as a widow, and was living in Whales Head, although the birth certificate lists place as Marrawah)..........then I lose all traces of her.
It is possible, given these dates, that Ellen (using her maiden name) could have been the mother of your Eileen......and that she then left Eileen with Fred (or his family).
This is such a tricky one, that until we get further clues, it may be hard to solve.
Siouxsie
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Hi Susie :)
From my resource
HEALD Eileen
Father Frederick HEALD Mother Ellen HEALD nee KELEBER
10 Feb 1901
At Stanley Reg#3126
I can see no marriage for the above parents.
A Frederick HEALD married Sarah POKE in 1904 at Stanley. I would suggest this Frederick was born 1878 son of Frederick HEALD and Mary McFADDEN . Frederick and Mary had eleven children. Frederick Snr may have died in 1917 in hospital at Latrobe, no age on the indexes in this era.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article153924590
The son Frederick died in 1954 - four sons and one daughter. I can only see birth regs for three sons and one dau on my resource.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article69853390
The search goes on Susie :)
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Cando.........perhaps Ellen and Frederick did have a short relationship, and Eileen was born.......maybe DNA might be the only answer.
I am determined to find her!
Siouxsie xxx
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Notation that the registrar suspects that Frederick and Ellen were not married when Eileen's birth was registered:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C95P-WWQX-L
Has this been posted somewhere before? I am sure I have previously tried to decipher all the words in this notation ???
Debra :)
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Just to add some further information to Ellen. I've found possibly three more children born to Ellen and listed under the name of Hutton.
1. James Hutton born 18/8/1903 at Highfield Father: N/S - Mother: Ellen Hutton nee Keleher.
2. Adeline Hutton born 12/10/1905 -Forest Father: N/s Mother: Ellen Hutton nee Keleher.
3. Reginald born 20/11/1907 - Marrawah -Father N/S - Mother: Ellen Hutton.
Webby
Reginald and Adeline also used the name HEALD.
Reginald enlisted WW2:
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=780100
Same birth date:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C95P-43HK
Adeline HEALD is on the 1928 electoral roll at Trowutta then moves to Victoria and marries in 1943.
Marriage
Registration number 15488
Registration year 1943
HEALD, Adeline
WALKER, Wm Felix
Death
Registration number 6385
Registration year 1986
WALKER, Adeline
Parents HEALD, Unknown and Unknown
Place of birth Temma Tasmania
Place of death Hawthorn
Age 80
Adeline was in school at Trowutta in 1918.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/162260694
Debra :)
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Some articles about Adeline:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?l-state=Tasmania&q=%22trowutta+heald%22%7E24+++++++++++&s=0
Debra :)
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Wowsers..........this has opened up a complete other can of worms.........anyone got access to the death records in Tasmania........perhaps Ellen died as Ellen Heald????
Many thanks for this information........really appreciate it.
Siouxsie
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I am fairly certain that Ellen remained around as I read a coroners document into the death of Eileen’s child and I think Ellen was mentioned as residing with her in Stanley.
I think that Fred and Eileen and another sibling who I haven’t traced called Hilda were belonging to Ellen aswell.
My nan Eileen Gee is buried at red hills cemetery near westerway and Ellen could have lived with them prior to her passing.
Just a thought.
Eileen married a Harold burles and the document I refer to is in that name. Was a while ago I found it though.
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Just another thought.
One of my aunties said that Fred (jr) looked aboriginal, didn’t say the same about the girls though, I wondered if he had a different father again and took Fred’s name - maybe she was his second wife so to speak after the other one came along.
Fred may have been conceived while she was in the asylum to a worker or similar???? Or there is a lack of records because the father was of aboriginal descent?
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Susie your grandfather's portrait from WWI is for sale on Trade Me right now! Sent to his sister Mary from Albany WA presumably the last stop before Colombo. It's come up for sale from a deceased estate, likely found in the Auckland, New Zealand area. I hope you see this in time, It would be a real shame if you missed out.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1971867171&tm=email&et=41&mt=3B9681F4-EFDD-45D4-BC17-7F5CA3ADC250
What I know is that she was born by 1867 (where I don't know) and that she married my g grandfather John Thomas Hutton on 5/5/1886 at Emu Bay Tas. They then had 4 children Frederick John, John Thomas (my grandfather)
Susie
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Many thanks..........I did get the photo.......waiting for it to arrive.
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I'm very pleased it is going back to its rightful owners!
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I HAVE FOUND HER!
Ellen did become Ellen Heald, and had several children with Frederick Heald; Eileen was named Heald, and the rest were all called Hutton.
Ellen died in Nov, 1951 in New Norfork as a patient at the Asylum.
Now to fill in the missing years between 1910 and 1951.........hopefully the admission papers might tell me.
Many thanks to all of you who have so wonderfully helped in the hunt for Ellen.......muchly appreciated.
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Hi Susie....I don't log on here very often these days and so pleased I did this am. What a wonderful result.
Cheers :)