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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Dugie4 on Monday 03 November 08 23:20 GMT (UK)
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Greetings!
I'm new here.
To introduce myself, I'm looking for information related to a Surgeon who served in the Army from 1871 (approx.) till his death in 1896.
Specifically, can anyone tell me if there was an Army hospital or barracks in the Cheltenham area around 1877 - 1878?
And whether civilians would be likely to come to the hospital / barracks to read to the soldiers?
Any information would be appreciated!
Dugie
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Hi Dugie
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
I can't think of a building fitting your description. Certainly a search on the Cheltenham gazeteer doesn't come up with a match:
http://www.bgas.org.uk/cheltgaz/
Have you identified the person in the census before or after the dates you mention?
It sounds as though you are trying to fit the facts to a family story - perhaps we can help if you give us some more clues?
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Dugie
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
I can't think of a building fitting your description. Certainly a search on the Cheltenham gazeteer doesn't come up with a match:
http://www.bgas.org.uk/cheltgaz/
Have you identified the person in the census before or after the dates you mention?
It sounds as though you are trying to fit the facts to a family story - perhaps we can help if you give us some more clues?
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
Thanks for your reply Arranroots.
You are right - I'm trying to fit the facts to a family story. But I have found the two characters on censuses etc.
One is Army Surgeon Dugald Blair Brown, who was born in Gorbals, Scotland on 4 March 1847, joined the Army on 30 March 1872, served in the Zulu Wars, Boer War, India and Burma, and died (in service in the Punjab) on 27 January 1896.
The other is Louisa Jane Grinnall (sometimes spelt Greenal) who was born in 1856 in Winchcombe, Gloucestershire and married William Henry Phillips in 1879.
I am trying to establish a connection between these two. The story that I have is the Louisa Jane used to visit the soldiers in a barracks(?) or hospital(?) in Cheltenham to read to them.
I think they had an affair from which a child, Bertha Phillips, was born in 1879.
So I am trying to place Dugald Blair Brown in Gloucestershire in 1877-8, before he was shipped off to Natal to the Zulu War. The child Bertha Phillips was with the family of John Greenal, labourer, in Dumbleton, Goucestershire, for the 1881 census, but by the time of the 1891 census had moved back to her mother and step-father's home, in Greater London.
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Interesting ...
Do I take it that Bertha was born after the marriage of her mother with Mr PHILLIPS? If so, bastardy orders won't be of any use to you.
What occupation did Louisa have - might she have come across Dugald while working at a big house in the area - Dumbleton Hall or similar?
There might well have been houses that were used for convalescent soldiers - there certainly were during the Great War, e.g.:
http://www.remembering.org.uk/vad_leckhampton.htm
I would recommend contacting Eric Miller or one of the site webmasters via this site, as they seem particularly well informed & might just be able to advise you.
A ;)
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I think possibly the place that you are referring to in Dunholme House, Cheltenham, now the Home of Cheltenham University it was the home at one time to the Surgeon General and may well have been used by the military at one time.
I have no reference as it is something I read about some time ago but try and find more information for you.
Added at 1935hrs.
I did find this that may give you a path to look at:Major James Russel Landale of Dunholm, The Park, Cheltenham; born in Secunderabad, India, 1881, so of Surgeon-General J. Landale; educated at Cheltenham College, 1896-1899 and at R.M.C. Sandhurst; commissioned Second Lieutenant Royal Scots Fusiliers, March 1901; ''he went to South Africa during the Boer War, and received the Queen''s medal with 5 clasps and transferred to the Indian Army on the 30th September 1905. He was promoted Captain in 1910 and whilst serving in India, married Lilian Constance Shiela, daughter of Sir George Casson Walker, financial adviser to the Nizam of Hyderabad..... He was promoted Major in 1915 and served with the Indian Expeditionary Force in Egypt and Mesopotamia, where he died of wounds on the 9th March 1916, received in action during the battle of El Singh, near Kut-al-Amara whilst commanding his Regiment. The 2nd Rajputs were thanked on parade for their part in the attack on Dujailah Redoubt, which was most gallantly carried out, the capture of which was a valuable achievement. His Brigade Commander wrote that Major Landale had been in command of the Regiment since they arrived in Mesopotamia and that the magnificent way in which the Regiment went in to attack and fought was largely due to his leadership and fine example. He was wounded in the thigh, but took no notice and went on until mortally wounded. Major James Landale has no known grave and is commemorated on the Basra Memorial.... Tragically, his father, Surgeon-General Landale died in England on the same day as his son.'' (Leaving All That Was Dear, refers)
I know this refers to a specific person but maybe the premises were use for the convalesce of wounded soldiers.
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Oh yes!
Mentioned here (under tragic circumstances!)
http://www.remembering.org.uk/cheltenham_indiv_comm_K_N.htm
Perhaps your chap was visiting them, Dugie?
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Does anyone know if any of General Gordon (of Khartoum)'s family had any connection to Cheltenham / Goucestershire in the later 1870s? (I'm still trying to chase up my ancestor mentioned above's connection to the area).
Regards
Dugie4
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Hi all
I have just seen this post so my reply is naturally tardy. The General Gordon, I gather is not the one of Khartoum fame.
This General Gordon was well placed in London and Cheltenham.
He had a residence in Pittville, though I gather his main place was in London. His place in Cheltenham was at the Junction of Pittville Lawn and Wellington Road.
You may find more details at Cheltenham Library, and there is a book on the history of Cheltenham. Hope this helps.
He is recognised by this landmark, to my understanding.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=bdYafcgd&id=258A0E290CACD34A28C8868A1DD67B1501BFB038&thid=OIP.bdYafcgdrAsF0fjcvAubBAE6DG&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fcdn.shopify.com%2fs%2ffiles%2f1%2f1595%2f3249%2fproducts%2f24_1_e821e256-761e-496e-97ef-c098ebdd7fd1_grande.jpg%3fv%3d1478871623&exph=253&expw=400&q=the+gordon+lamp+cheltenham&simid=608050451273157996&ck=92AAA7528424D98848826AE08CF1ADF8&selectedIndex=0&qpvt=the+gordon+lamp+cheltenham&ajaxhist=0
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Thank you for this information spurdog. Could be fruitful.
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Not sure if one can DM here, but my friend was employed by GG, hence the info. I also live close.
KR
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Spurdog, I've lost your PM details. Is this possible?
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DM'd.