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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Angler10 on Thursday 03 February 05 23:09 GMT (UK)
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My father was born as was his first wife, they both had fathers as shown on their marriage certificate. So why can I, and, 1837 support not find their birth and death details? The 1837 support team offered to help find the known events but had to admit they could not find them. All their names and and ages were correct even the month for my father was provided so why the problems? A search 2 years either side of the dates were made, any similar names searched still zero. Can anyone suggest where I should try next? or can anyone offer any avenues I may try.
If all fails, were there any reports of UFOs around Retford Notts around 1903/4?
Thanks, angler10
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You will need the assistance of the Superintendant Registrar for the area:
East Retford Register office,
Nottinghamshire County
Council Offices,
Chancery Lane,
Retford Nottingham,
DN22 6DG
UK
Phone:01777 708631
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Thanks for your reply, was told by that office they required certain other info I have not got, ie. full date of birth and death, which had I got perhaps I would not need their help. However I will try again as you suggest and thanks again for your reply
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Hi Angler - I can only really add one thing. I have found wild age discrepancies on marriage certificates. When my own parents married he was 18 and she was 17. She had parental consent and her mother was a witness. He said he was of full age - an exaggeration of 3 years. I have an ancestor who said he was 49 on his second marriage - he was actually 61.
Men born in the 1890's or so often lied about their age - either to enlist underage in the WW1 or to be over 40 and so exempt.
My wife's mother died believing herself to be a year younger than she really was.
Start again with what you know - really know - discard all unproven assumptions and work carefully backwards.
Ask members here for specific help with individuals - Who? When? Where? 8)
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Hi Angler10
Like Hack says - back to the beginning. When/where did your father & his wife die? Do you know where they were buried/cremated? Did either of them die 1969 or after? From that date, birth dates are in the index albeit only as accurate as the information provided by the informant.
What makes you think they were born in Retford/Notts?
Why not post details of everything that you do know and somebody might be able to come up with an idea or two?
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Hi, thanks for your reply, well here we go:-
Myles William Clarke married Dorothy Pettinger on the 14th January 1922. MW s age given as 19 yrs.(August?) Dorothy 18 yrs. They were living in Little Lane in Retford or Clarborough which is a parish of Retford, at the date of getting married. MWs father Frank Clarke a Miner, Dorothy's father Luke Pettinger a labourer.
Dorothy died at about age 34 yrs+/- having had 2 girls and 1 boy. At the time of her death she was living in either Retford or Worksop(7 miles from Retford) MW died in Hertfordshire in the late 60s/ early 70s having married 1 Doris Marshall (Chambers???) near the end of his life, they had lived together from pre WW2. MW so family legend says was born on a ship on route from Ireland to England. His father its said had been serving in the Army in Ireland. Have tried to trace father but no luck due to little knowledge about him, he died, not in the knowledge of MWs children.
That is about all the information I have about them. My 1/2 sister gave me some info about Dorothy, ie name, age at death. Sadly she lived in Canada, and died 3 weeks before I was due to go and see her. The other siblings both died some years ago.
Should any of this ring any bells please contact me.
Thanks, Phil
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Right Angler - let's see if we can put you on the right track. First a piece of what seems to be good news. Myles William Clarke's father was probably this guy, as he is the only Frank Clarke, miner, with a wife of child-bearing age in Nottinghamshire in 1901 [see?]:
Frank Clarke
Age in 1901: 31
Estimated birth year: 1870
Where born: Selston, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil parish: Selston
Ecclesiatical parish: St Helen
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Street address: .
Source information: RG13/3145
Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Greasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Folio: 114
Page: 30
Household schedule number: 189 8)
The name Myles William Clarke may be a family name with origins in the Lake District as we can see marriages for men of that name in 1873 and 1903, both at Kendal. There is also a Mykes cCarke who died at Ulverston in 1859.
Now the problems. Pettinger is a fairly common name in the Notts and Lincoln area and, of course, arrivals in London. There is no Luke Pettinger on the 1901 census who could be Dorothy's father - only a 53 old with a 51 year old wife in Lincolnshire and he is a gravel merchant.
Important- As both were under age when married in 1922, who were the witnesses to the marriage? Both would have needed parental consent but others may have signed as witnesses - that may help identify their mothers.
I will have a separate look for Myles's birth. I don't think there is any case of birth jurisdiction - they were not on the high seas if indeed he was born at sea.
:)
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I can now take you a bit further back. The 1891 census shows Luke Pettinger, age 17, with brother James, age 19, as Mate and Master of Canal Boat 2 at Gainsborough, Notts. So Luke existed - my failure to find him in 1901 may have been due to the incomplete census version or to a possible enlistment in the Boer War - right age, adventurous disposition etc. That is also conjecture but we have him.
We may have his marriage record as well:
Name: Pettinger, Luke
Record Type: Marriages
Quarter: March
Year: 1893
District: East Retford
County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 19
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11 miles away in Everton,Notts we have in 1881
Luke PETTINGER, 36, Clarborough, Nottingham
Occ: Coal Merchant
Elizabeth PETTINGER, 33, Walkeringham, Nottingham
Wife Occ: C Merchants Wife
Children
John H. PETTINGER, 11, Everton, Nottingham Scholar
James PETTINGER, 9, Everton, Nottingham Scholar
Robert PETTINGER, 4, Everton, Nottingham Scholar
Willie PETTINGER, 1, Everton, Nottingham
No luke of the right age but there is James ... and Luke is a family name ... so possibles although without further research not definites.
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Thanks again for your replies, think I'm out of my depth now. Hack I have been trying to follow up on the Frank Clarke you sorted, MW had an elder sister Clara and a brother Frank they were the only children in the marriage.
Is there a way of sighting family details other than on Census Online? where its doubtfull the children would appear. I have tried all the names on Census, Ancestry etc. without result. As for Luke well how can I link him to Dorothy? As you said back to the beginning but where is that?
I think I shall have to travel up to the area and sit down and research all the clues you have given me.
Thanks Falkyrn, I think the Luke you suggest may be to old to be the father as you surmise so maybe the son of John H, James, Robert or Willie again I shall have to visit and research them all.
Thanks again for the help, I shall plan a trip and perhaps slip the fishing tackle in just in case>
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I am still willing to try to help. Please examine that marriage certificate and tell me:
1. The names of the witnesses.
2. The addresses given for both parties.
Every detail is valuable.
MW having a brother called Frank makes my sighting of the mining Frank Clarke even more likely as his father.
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Thanks, yet again, OK:- Witnessed by, John Thomas Spittlehouse, Ethel Smith and C.A.Paxton. The address given for both is Little Lane. The registration District is East Retford, the Parish of the church(St Saviours Church) is Clarborough, so Little Lane could be Retford or Clarborough. I think they are more or less the same town.
The marriage was after banns. There was no rank or profession given for Dorothy. Thats about it apart from the other given facts.
So over to you my friend.
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Hi Angler
There aren't many Myles Clarke's showing across the censuses - but I can certainly help you rule one out, as he's 'mine'!
In 1891 there's a Myles shown aged 9, born Kimblesworth Durham. He's actually Myles CLARK and its a transcription error.
Hackstaple is right that Myles is a predominently north country name. Of the 453 showing in the 1891 census, 178 are in Lancashire, 19 in Westmoreland, 28 in Yorkshire and 18 in Durham. Only three in Nottinghamshire.
The name entered my own Clark line via a Westmoreland family.
Good hunting!
Paul
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Interesting that there is this Luke PETTINGER in the 1901 census and apologies if you already have it but just in case:
Living on a boat:
Foss Dyke Navigation Canal Boat "The Fisherman's Luck"
at St Mary le Wigford, Lincolnshire
Luke PETTINGER head mar 56 gravel merchant b.Clarboro Notts
Elizabeth wife 52 b.Walkeringham Notts
William son 21 waterman b.Drakeholes Notts
Walter son 13 b.Drakeholes Notts
Rg13/3061 folio 197 page 52
Casalguidi
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Thanks for the info Paul.
Cas, that Luke would be to old as Dorothy's father was shown as still working in 1922 as a labourer. There may be a chance that the eldest son William(21) may have had a second name of Luke or decided to use that name? Not sure how to check that to be honest. But thanks for the info, food for thought maybe.
Phil
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EUREKA, well maybe. I may have found Dorothy's death details. So much for 1837 support 'experts'. There is an entry in Vol 7b page 6 in the 3qtr of 1935 that is so close it has to be. I shall be sending for a copy certificate on Monday.
Fingers crossed,
Phil
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good luck
legs
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Me too!
Casalguidi