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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: brycewj on Tuesday 11 November 08 01:54 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Our house at 7 Thom St. was bombed on the night of Tuesday, April 15, 1941. Our cousin and our father's cousin were both killed. My mother with her six children (me being one of them!) survived. She told me that we were subsequently moved to another house but that most of our possessions were lost or looted. I have a photocopy of an article in the Greenock Telegraph describing the incident but wondered if anyone out there had photos of the scene. I would also be interested in hearing from any other families who lived at that address.
Thanks for any help.
Bill Bryce
Roberts Creek, BC
Canada
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Hi Bill
if you google Greenock Pictures of the Blitz
there are some old pictures of the damage done
I haven't been through them all yet so I dont know if there are any of Thom street
but worth looking at
Elaine
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Hi Bill
No photos, but just thought you might want to have a read through this - Col. 536 if you use your search/find tool mentions Thom Street:
www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/officialReports/meetingsParliament/or-01/or110502.htm
Interesting read given the memories aroused by today's date.
Monica :)
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Hi Elaine & Monica,
Thanks for the quick responses! The Blitz site is extremely interesting although it concentrates on a later date in 1941 than our bombing. The memories on the Scottish Parliament site also gave me a little more insight into those times---I was only two and a half at the time so don't remember much!
Again, many thanks for your replies!
Bill
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Hello, I had a quick look at the Scotsman who don't have photos but I notice your name is Bryce - is Shauna Bryce one of your family? There's a paragraph on her chatting to and inspiring the rescuers while they fought to free her legs (she got out after 7hrs). Her aunt Mrs F Delacruz was beside her and killed outright, other members of her family were safe in a shelter. I can send you a copy if you're interested, just pm me your email address.
Lora
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Hi Lora,
Thanks for your email. Yes, Shauna is my cousin and Feliciana Delacruz was my father's cousin. And yes, I would love a copy of the paragraph from the Scotsman! My email address is: (*)
Look forward to hearing from you,
Bill
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Hi Bill have sent you the article, let me know you get it ok. Does that mean Shauna didn't survive if she was your cousin? Or was it another cousin that was killed. That's very sad if she did after all that, it sounds lile she was a brave woman.
Lora
P.S. It's best not to post your email address publicly, send a private message. It means you're less likely to have problems with spammers.
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Hi Bill
I belong to a forum for ex-pats for Greenock - its a private forum, so you will have to join
http://suesscotchcorner.yuku.com/
If you go to the old days, page 6 there is a list of casulties on there.
this is the Bryce names that are listed
BRYCE, Mrs Ann
BRYCE, Catherine (9)
BRYCE, Miss Feliciana
BRYCE, Mrs Helen
BRYCE, Miss Margaret
BRYCE, Sarah (Infant)
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Hello Bill,
All the Bryces are listed on the Commonwealth War Graves Site, see:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/SearchResults.aspx?surname=bryce&initials=&war=2&yearfrom=1941&yearto=1941&force=Misc&nationality=&send.x=36&send.y=7
Name: BRYCE, ANN
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 33
Date of Death: 07/05/1941
Additional information: of 24 Clydeview Road. Wife of Gnr. Peter Bryce, R.A. Died at Rue-end Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: GREENOCK, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
Name: BRYCE, CATHERINE
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 9
Date of Death: 06/05/1941
Additional information: of 86 Belville Street. Died at corner of Lauriston Street and St. Lawrence Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: GREENOCK, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
Name: BRYCE, FELICIANA
Initials: F
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 21
Date of Death: 17/04/1941
Additional information: of 96 Rankin Street. Daughter of Margaret Bryce, and of the late Henry Bryce. Injured 16 April 1941, at 7 Thom Street; died at Royal Infirmary.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: GREENOCK, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
Name: BRYCE, HELEN
Initials: H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 67
Date of Death: 07/05/1941
Additional information: of 8 East Blackhall Street. Died at Rue-end Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: GREENOCK, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
Name: BRYCE, MARGARET
Initials: M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 26
Date of Death: 07/05/1941
Additional information: of 8 East Blackhall Street. Daughter of Helen Bryce. Died at Rue-end Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: GREENOCK, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
Name: BRYCE, SARAH
Initials: S
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Date of Death: 07/05/1941
Additional information: Aged 1 month; of 24 Clydeview Road. Daughter of Gnr. Peter Bryce, R.A., and of Ann Bryce. At Rue-end Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: GREENOCK, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
Anne.
P.S. I presume Gunner Peter Bryce, Royal Artillery, survived the war?
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Hi Anne,
Thanks, I did know about the CWGC. The other Bryce's besides Feliciana are not relatives. I would think Gunner Peter Bryce lost most, if not all of his family...poor guy!
Best regards,
Bill
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Can anybody tell me where I would find out about the Murray family connected to Baker st area Greenock during the war, and if any of them where casualties.
Shirley
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Hello Shirley,
Welcome to Rootschat!
If you go to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission 'Debt of Honour' Database ( http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14 ) and type in details, you'll get a list of all Civilian Casualties.
Surname Field - Type in Murray
Initials - Leave Blank
War - WW2
Year of Death - 1939 - 1947
Force - Choose 'Civilian'
Nationality - Choose 'UK'
This will bring up all the Murrays.
You'll have to look for the 'Glasgow City' ones and see if any of them 'belong' to you.
Anne
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Hi
Thanks for this link did'nt realise CWGC listed civilian deaths - my great uncle Ian Mauchan was one of the casualties of the bombing - he was injured at a sugar refinery and later died
Regards
Gillian
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thank you apanderson a most useful site, doesn't appear they died in the bombings.
regards Kennedy 1
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I have been searching for some time for the death of a relative Daisy McVicar Kennedy, who would have been my step aunt. By a fluke I found her on Scotlands people, only to find that she had died aged 11 on the night of 6/05/1941. Buried under rubble.
I googled civilian casualties which brought me to this string, and I was able to use the link to CWG. on printing off Kennedy's in an attempt to find out why she was where she was, I discovered that my grandmother had another daughter, also killed at the same address. Jean Mills Kennedy was eight. The two death certificates on Scotland's people were filled in slightly differently and I discovered that in fact it was there normal place of residence: Belleville Street, one of the worst hit areas according to the Blitz report I also found on google some time ago. ("on the run" Strathclyde Fire and Rescue service- retired employees association magazine) Also terrible pictures of Ladyburn Buildings where my father was born.
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hi lindaangus
the picture on that site is'nt Ladyburn buildings
its Ladyburn street
these tenements were demolished and Prefabs put up to house
the people who lived in there
the ones on the other side of the street still exist now although they
have all been modernised
Elaine
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Slightly off topic, but as an English person I always thought Greenock was pronounced Grenock (e as in Glen) , however, this week in relation to the Libyan bomber being released from Greenock prison due to his terminal illness, all radio/TV announcers have been pronouncing the word Greenock (Green as in the colour).
Please put me out of my misery and tell me how it is pronounced in Scotland.
Lizzie
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Hi Lizzie
it is pronounced
Green as in colour ock
Elaine
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Many thanks - I've only been pronouncing it wrong for over 60 years ???
LIzzie
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My father who as born in Greenock and who moved back down to London always pronounced it Grenock. I too have always referred to it as that. Like you I began to wonder as it was pronounced Greenock on the BBC. I was going to check too.
Thanks for the correction.
Regards
Linda
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Thanks for that Linda. I think if your Scottish father calls it Grenock, I will carry on that way too having thought it was that for so long. Although I rarely use the word.
Lizzie
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Hi Linda
did your dad leave Greenock at an early age as
Greenockians hate to hear it pronounced Grenock ;D :P
Elaine
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Hi Elaine
I have yet to discover when my father moved back to London. That is one of the things that I hope to discover when I visit Greenock. Anyway apologies on my father's behalf!
Whilst here can I ask another question? I have just received the street plan of Greenock through the post. Can you tell me what the memorial is with the double cross and the anchor and what is Highland Mary's memorial in the cemetery.
Regards
Linda
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Elaine
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I looked again at the pictures and of course you were correct.
I have just received a street map of Greenock and have found Ladyburn Street on it. Not too far from Ladyburn Buildings and of course Belville Street where my grandmother lived. The arrival of the map has been most helpful.
I did know that Ladyburn Building were not demolished until the 60's.
Regards
Linda
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Hi Linda
the cross is the Cross of Lorraine its called the ( free french memorial) on Lyle Hill
and Highland Mary was the girlfriend of Robert Burns (the Poet)
the memorial was erected when they moved her body from the old cemetery
to another
there is a site with some good info will see if I can find the Link
Elaine
PS no need for apologies :)
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this is the Highland Mary Link
Mary Campbell was her real name
http://www.greenock-town.co.uk/highland_mary.html
Elaine
the free french memorial
http://freespace.virgin.net/mike.mackenzie2/FreFrnch.htm
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Elaine
Many thnks for this information. You are a star.
Regards
Linda
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Have any of you read the book GREENOCK REVISTED by Stewart Gemmill? It's a full account of the raids, with pictures of then and now - brilliant! It even has an account by a German bomber pilot. And it has a full list of the dead both civilian and civil service personnel and personal accounts. You can see demos and everything on his site www.greenockrevisited.co.uk
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Hi Bill just saw this message. I have pictures of greenock MArket Street where the gallachers and Bryces lived and Vennel Street. I can send them all to you.
best Wishes Rosemary
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Hi Rosemary, I sure would like to see those photos. Can you send them to my email of (*) thanks in advance.
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will do on laptop, just now photos on other PC of to bed nite . :>}
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The problem with the mispronunciation of Greenock is that so many people in the south use Greenwich as a yardstick. I know this because when I lived down there and corrected friends on their pronunciation I was told they had taken the view that the pronunciation of Greenwich was the rule rather than the exception. I've noticed recently that the BBC have issued advice to staff on getting place names right.
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Hi,
We too have casualties as a result of the Thom Street bombing. They were Elizabeth McQuade (maiden name Barbour ) widow of William McQuade and her son also called William. They both died as a result of enemy action on the 16th April 1941 at 5 Thom Street.
I agree, there is little about this raid but lots about those two or three weeks later. If you find any photos or other evidence, I'd love a copy. Likewise, I'm happy to share what I have.
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Hi both
Shauna would have been my aunt had she survived. I would lived to have met her. I am her brother Henry's only grandchild. X