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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: caseyhagan on Wednesday 12 November 08 02:39 GMT (UK)
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I've been trying to trace my Casey ancestry back but can't get past my great-grandfather. His name was Peter Casey, and he supposedly came to USA in 1856. His family owned a mill in Ireland (don't know what type) that went under with the famine. He had cousins named McCarron who also emigrated to the US before him. Peter naturalized in Hamilton County, Ohio in 1860 but spent the rest of his life in Louisville, Ky. It seems all of the court papers for Hamilton County were destroyed by a fire in the 1880's.
We have his naturalization papers, but they give little information. Unfortunately, we don't know what port he entered into the US. My deceased aunt once told me she thought they were from Cork County, but there were no McCarrons in Cork according to Griffiths Valuation at the time. I'm assuming that if they were cousins (and they evidently remained very close until death in Ky) they must have lived in the same county in Ireland.
Any advice as to where to proceed from here? I feel like I've hit a brick wall. I'd give anything to just know the county they were from. I've gone through every ship's passenger list for every day in 1856 for NYC arrivals and got nothing. Is there anyway to search through a list of mill owners in Ireland around 1850?
Thanks so much for any help.
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Hi Casey,
At the time of the G.V 1848-1864 all McCarron's came from the north. There were none in Co. Cork.
Belfast City there was 3, Donegal 40, Derry 19, Fermanagh 2, Armagh 9, Tyrone 19, Down 1, Leitrim 1 and Monaghan 34.
With respect to Casey, they were 99% from the south.
What was Peter Casey's fathers name?
John...Sydney
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Have you traced your family through all possible U.S. census records to see if the county of birth in Ireland is listed? Have you done the same with the McCarrons? Have you traced living descendants of your ancestor and the McCarrons to see if any more details have been passed down?
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You could try Slater's Commericial Directory for 1846 I not sure if Mills would be on that
http://www.failteromhat.com/slater.htm
Have you got death certificates in US for your relatives some may list the father or both parents names.
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Think you really need to know where the mill was before checking in directories.
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Its a option aghadowey thats all I was suggesting
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Yes, I understand that but without even a county at this point more information is needed. If a more exact location is found then directories might be helpful.
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hi,
you could contact the society for the preservation of ancient and traditional irish mills;
http://www.millsofireland.org/
one would think that there must be a list of mill owners somewhere and possibly these people might know. there is an address on the site that you could write to.
tony
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First of all, I certainly thank all of you for your terrific responses!
I'll try to give you as much information as I have (which isn't a whole lot, unfortunately) for all of you wonderful sleuths out there, as this is surely one big puzzle.
We don't know Peter J. Casey's father's name. That's what we are now looking for. Peter was born in Ireland in Jan. 1841 (year could be slightly off) and died in Louisville, Ky. 10 Jan, 1910. Records that gave information regarding a deceased person's parents didn't begin in Louisville until 1911!
As per the 1900 census, he came to US in 1856. His Declaration of Intent, which we DON'T have, was on 20 Oct., 1858 and he naturalized on 20 Oct., 1860 in Hamilton County, Ohio. We DO have his naturalization papers but the only information on them is that he was born in Ireland and that a Patrick Casey was his witness. Hamilton County Courthouse had a fire that destroyed all of the naturalization papers in the 1880's, so that avenue is closed. Sadly, we have no idea if Peter had siblings, if he came here alone or with family. The family just never talked about it.
I can't find Peter Casey in the 1860 census in Hamilton County or Jefferson County (Louisville). I DID find a Peter Casey, age 26, John Casey, age 32, and Joseph McCaran, age 32, all together with many other Irish laborers in St. Louis in 1860.
We finally find him in the 1870 census living in Louisville with his new wife, Elizabeth (married in Dec. 1869 as per census) and a Mary Casey. Here's where it really gets interesting. My great-grandmother Elizabeth's maiden name was also Casey! Her parents were Edward Casey and Catherine Ryan, as per her death certificate. So, Mary Casey could have been either Peter OR Elizabeth's sister. I've tried to find Mary in later censuses and death records but just ran into false leads.
Patrick McCarran's involvement is also interesting. We have notes from our late aunt, Peter's youngest grandchild, that only says that Patrick McCarron was Peter's cousin. Interestingly, this aunt had Patrick's Petition papers and we learned that he came to the US in 1847 via New Orleans. I've been able to find him on every Louisville census starting with 1860, and I think he must have had brothers, Robert and Daniel, who were in Louisville during the 1850 census. I'm unable to find either of them after that, even in death records.
I was able to find out a lot about Patrick McCarron and his wife, Mary. They married in 1872 and never had children. We even discovered through HER death certificate that she was living with my grandmother and grandfather (Peter's son) at the time of her death, along with Elizabeth Casey, who was also a widow by then. The only other info from that is that Mary's father's name was John Ryan. We are thinking that possibly Mary and Elizabeth were also cousins, as well as Patrick and Peter.
Patrick pre-deceased Mary, but she was the informant on his death certificate and just put "don't know" for the names of his parents.
My grandmother was the informant for Mary McCarron's death certificate and interestingly, she KNEW that John Ryan was the name of Mary's father, but didn't know the mother's name. That's why we believe there was definitely a closeness between the McCarron's, Caseys and Ryans that would suggest they knew each other well in Ireland, at least the Caseys and McCarrons.
My aunt used to tell us she thought the Caseys were from Cork County, but only knew that the family owned a mill that went bust after the great famine.
Now, I've tried to search New Orleans passenger lists for Peter Casey, but I haven't been able to access those from 1856 - it says they're still unavailable. I found Pat McCarron on the Niagra in 1847 from Liverpool and he was 16. No other McCarrons were on the ship.
I have a feeling Peter Casey lied about his age as he went through the 2-step naturalization process, meaning he was OVER the age of 18 when he came to the US. If he were born in 1841 or so, he would have only been 15 or 16 when he came and by law he could have just done the 1-step process at age 21. Also, Peter SHOULD have been 21 at naturalization, and according to the information we have, he was at most 19 at the time.
I went through the surname search on Griffith's Valuation and did find that there were no McCarrons in the south of Ireland at that time, but there were quite a few Casey's in the north. The most promising counties were Monaghan and Leitrim. Do you think I am correct in assuming that they must have lived near each other?
So that's my sad story. Sad because so little information about a life-changing event was passed down, and sad because I'm afraid I'll never be able to learn the story.
Anyway, if you were able to get through all of this, thank you for your patience. I certainly appreciate any suggestions you may have.
Joyce
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To TF13:
Thanks so much for the link to the miller website. I've written to them and am anxious to hear if they will be able to help by providing a list of some sort.
To Murphy:
I appreciate the link to the Slater's directory. I will start on that and see where it leads me. You know, I'm also a Murphy! My grandmother Alice Murphy married Peter Casey's son, Thomas. Alice's mother was a Dunn. I have no idea where they were from either, except for notes that my grandmother said HER parents used to mention Clonmell and Tipperarry. There are WAY too many Murphys for me to trace them down, I'm afraid.
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Hi
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Hi
I have just been reading with interest your search for the Casey family in Ireland. I too am searching for Caseys. My husbands Great Grandfather was James Casey from County Mayoh. He was born circa 1843. He married Catherine Keough from Dublin in Blackpool Lancashire England in 1865. I have their marriage certificate and his father was Edward Casey, he was a farrier. according to the certificate. I have no information of James whereabouts before the wedding. but he is on the 1871 census in Blackpool. I do not know if he came to England with Catherine or if he had brothers and sisters who came with him. Or if the family split and went seperate ways. Maybe to America. My husband however remembers seeing photos when he was a child of relatives in America although he does not know what the relationship was. As you probably have already discovered find ancestors in Ireland is needle in a haystack stuff, buti believe there were a number of Caseys in Mayoh. It would be interesting if this was the same Edward Casey as yours.
Regards Joyce
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Hi to another Joyce!
Yes, it would indeed be something if our Edward turned out to be one and the same. As for finding an ancestor in Ireland, it is darned near impossible!
I do know that my Elizabeth Casey, whose father was Edward Casey, was born in Ireland anywhere from 1845 to 1852, depending upon which census you believe. I don't understand if they actually just lied about their age, or if they truly couldn't remember and just guessed. My aunt, though, used to say the Irish always lied about their age. If true, they probably did so out of necessity either to be old enough to work, or to naturalize or for whatever reason.
Also, I believe time and dates were just not relevant or important to people who were just trying to survive each day. It must have been so awful. Imagine leaving your homeland, your family and friends and never being able to see them again, sailing in horrific conditions, going to unknown shores. Unbelievable.
Anyway, let's keep sharing whatever information we can find. I'm going to keep researching until I hit the wall.
Joyce
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Hi Caseyhagan this could be totally unrelated but from Search for Missing Friends: Irish Immigrant Advertisements placed in The Boston Pilot 1831-1920
19 November 1859 BRIDGET FLANAGAN Ten Dollars Reward.OF BRIDGET FLANAGAN, Corgown, parish Kilglass [co. Roscommon], who sailed from Liverpool on the 9th of August last, and landed in New York on the 25th of September. Please address her cousin, Peter Casey, Cincinnati, Ohio Volume IV: 1857 - 1860
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Oh wow, Murphy, that really could be relevant. It's so strange because it seems like I'm constantly being led to Roscommon. I found a Petrum Casey christened in Strokestown, Roscommon, Ireland in 1834, parents Patritii and Annae Casey. I understand that Latin was commonly used for these records.
Before that, I came across a Peter Casey, age 20, who came to US in 1854. The passenger list said he was from Roscommon, bound for Ohio. The times and age make more sense than the information handed down. He HAD to be born around that time to naturalize when he did.
Please tell me about this Search for Missing Friends. It really does sound quite promising and I will pursue it immediately.
Also, would it make logistical sense for Caseys from Roscommon to have relatives (cousins, in-laws) in possibly Leitrim, Monaghan or Fermanagh? Would they be close enough for people to have met and married at that time? I've found that usually if you find one relative, you find more very nearby.
Again, I can't thank you enough for your help.
Joyce
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Hello caseyhagan,
The search for missing friends is available on NEHGS which I signed up to recently as I was doing alot of research in Massachusetts.
I have had a look at your information above and at the moment the only one I found that could be possibly related is the ad I found above.
I could have another look later on.
Also I had a case before where I knew two families were together related but ended up they werent from the same place in Ireland that one of them had married into the other family could be something to keep in mind.
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Thank you for that information. Yes, I guess I shouldn't assume that they lived near each other in Ireland. From the info you gave me, I searched the ships passenger lists for Sept 25, 1859, and only 1 ship arrived that day, a steamship named Kangaroo. She wasn't on it, and I doubt that was her intended ship as it could make the return trip in 2 weeks' time. Apparently, Bridget was to be sailing for about 6 weeks. I also checked every ship for 5 days before and after without any luck. There were apparently several terrible storms (hurricanes) around that time so that may have affected the schedules.
Also, I couldn't find any Flanagans in Corgowan in Griffith's Valuation, but there was one Casey. There are many Flanagans found in Kilglass Parish, however, just not in that small town.
So you see, you've given me much to search for. You know, I was near tears last night thinking of the desperation these folks must have gone through, not being able to get in touch with loved ones, maybe never knowing what became of them. It puts today's problems into better perspective. At least we have mobile phones!
Joyce
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I've written to the web address for Mills and Millers of Ireland over a week ago, but have received no response.
I did a search today and came up with a book entitled "The Millers & The Mills of Ireland (1700-1900)" by William Hogg. It is on readireland.ie and costs 55 euros, which is quite prohibitive. It supposedly contains the only national mill record providing details of sites and names of millers and proprietors of the 19th century, which could possibly help me a good deal.
I was wondering if anyone on this board might have access to it, i.e., in a library or collection of some sort that might be available to the public. I really can't afford to spend nearly $80 at this time for a book that may or may not have any information I can use. Or, maybe someone could suggest where I might purchase a second-hand copy.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Joyce
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hi joyce,
i wouldn't give up yet on receiving a response :)
there is a copy of the book you mentioned in The Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland(rsai) in merrion square,Dublin. i know this is no good to you if you're in america but there might be someone on rootschat who is a member,or knows someone,who could have a look at it for you.
the authour of the book,william hogg,also published a book called "the millers and mills of ireland of about 1850:a list". this book is in the university libraries of sligo,maynooth,galway and cork. it is also in the university of chicago library,which might be nearer to you!
you're right about the cost of the book,$80 :(, far too expensive! maybe this will help someone to help you; good luck,
tony
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Thanks, Tony. I live in Florida, and unfortunately I don't know anyone in Chicago. Do you think it would be rude of me to do a different post asking if someone could do a look-up at one of the libraries you mentioned in Ireland? I wouldn't want to impose on anyone.
Joyce
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no joyce,it wouldn't be rude or imposing :) i think thats what rootschat is all about, helping people with the same interest. certainly go ahead and start a new thread and see if anyone can help. there's no harm in asking :)
tony
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would it make logistical sense for Caseys from Roscommon to have relatives (cousins, in-laws) in possibly Leitrim, Monaghan or Fermanagh? Would they be close enough for people to have met and married at that time?
very very possible and given that they had a mill they may also have moved round these areas buying/collecting grain....or they would have known and met lots of people coming and going to the mill.
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You could try http://www.rsai.ie
Or www.iarc.ie
The Archive's accessions registers record more than 3,500 individual acquisitions to date, ranging from single items - a book, pamphlet, drawing or photograph - to the thousands of drawings and files created by large architectural practices.
The collections housed by the Archive comprise the largest body of historic architectural records in Ireland and as such constitute a vital national cultural resource. They include the most significant body of historic Irish architectural drawings in the world, with in excess of 250,000 drawings ranging in date from the late seventeenth to the late twentieth centuries. Also housed in the Archive are over 400,000 photographs, making this one of the largest collections of photographs in Ireland, and an extensive reference library, with more than 15,000 items of printed matter.
The holdings of the Irish Architectural Archive contain material - primary or secondary - on every notable Irish architect, on Irish buildings of every type, period or style, and on most significant building in the 32 counties of Ireland.
or www.buildingsofireland.ie
They might have a database or might be able to help.
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First, thanks to Hallmark for the new websites to search.
In case you missed my update on another thread (library look-up), I'll fill you in on what I was able to find out yesterday.
I talked with a reference librarian at the U. of Chicago and she looked up the surname "Casey" in the "Millers & Mills of Ireland 1850."
There are 3 Caseys listed and they all operated corn mills. There was a Thomas Casey in Kilmanman Parish, County Queens, a Thomas Casey in Killare Parish, County Westmeath, and a John Casey in Dunlecky, County Carlow.
When I checked these against Griffith's Valuation, I found 2 of them as stated but there was no Thomas Casey in Ardbrennan, Killare, Westmeath, nor was there any indication of a mill.
I researched a little more and discovered the Valuations were taken in County Queens and County Carlow in 1851-52, but weren't done in County Westmeath until 1854. Apparently, that mill was already shut down by the time of the Valuations.
Of course, the other two could have been gone also by 1854, but I guess we have no way of knowing that, unless someone can suggest another trail for me to follow.
I'm a little confused, though. While reading a thread on this site on how to interpret Griffith's Valuation, I found that when property listed "Offices", this could have meant anything from a factory to a store or even a mill. If that's the case, then most of the hundreds of Caseys I've found could have had mills, as the majority of them were listed as having "house, off, land". I was so hoping to be able to narrow it down to just a few, but now I'm not so sure I have.
Can anyone clarify this for me?
Joyce
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When you see 'house, offices, land' the offices refer to outbuildings such as barns, byres, stables, piggeries, etc. Farmers still talk of 'office housing' when refering to these.
If there was a mill at the time of Griffith's Valuation it would say so- i.e. 'flax-mill', 'corn-mill', etc. Usually when a mill was listed under the column 'Area' there's a dash.
For the 'missing' mill in Ardbrennan have you looked in Griffith's under the townland and checked to see if anyone else could be running the mill? I'm not familiar with that part of Ireland but I couldn't see a Casey in Ardbrennan but there is a Thomas Casey in Rathskeagh townland in Killare parish.
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Don't forget they may have rented the mill.......sorry...but...if they did they would have needed a house too.
Maybe try to find who lived in that town/townland to see if any names connect with yours??
Also....are you sure they were grain mills or woolen mills etc... were they flour mills??
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In those days most people would have been tenants. Names of tenants and their immediate lessors are listed in one of the columns in Griffith's.
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Have you looked at Slater's Commercial Directory of Ireland 1846? It lists a detailed description of the town or city, post office information and shows the names of nobility and gentry living in or close to the town. The traders of each town are arranged according to their trade. Slater's directory contains some additional information over Pigot's Directory.
A search of griffiths for Thomas Casey gives only one return;
Casey Thomas Walshestown North Mullingar Westmeath
Dave.
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Dave, how did you find a Thomas Casey in Walshestown North? Is there a search function for Slater's? I can't even find that town on the list - all I could find was Mullingar, and a James Casey who was a baker.
What's the secret to navigating through this directory?
Thanks again,
Joyce
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Whoops, Dave, I'm sorry. I thought you had done a search on Slater's, not Griffith's.
In fact, I found a Thomas Casey listed in probably a half dozen towns in Westmeath on Griffith's, just none in Ardbrennan.
I'd still like to know how to better navigate Slater's - it seems very awkward and cumbersome for me yet.
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It can be very hard going, then you just find people with the same name.
The trouble is they may have run a mill but that does not mean they owned it. It is a very common name esp in Roscommon but they could be from anywhere.
Reckon some of the trade directories for that period might reveal something.
A short email query to RSAI might be a way to go, hopefully someone there might be helpful on a quick lookup, too complex and they might not bother.
You just want to know if any Caseys had a mill......
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Dave,
I'm going on the assumption that only 3 Casey families ran a mill around 1850, based on the list from William Hogg's publication. It supposedly contains the only complete list of mills and millers.
So if that's correct, then my family came from either Queen's, Westmeath or Carlow.
If I can get better with Slater's, maybe I can find more family names there. This mystery hunt sure is fun, though!
Joyce
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Just keep in mind that the family story about owning a mill in Ireland might not be entirely accurate. Perhaps some of the family worked in a local mill but didn't actually run it.
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Dave,
I'm going on the assumption that only 3 Casey families ran a mill around 1850, based on the list from William Hogg's publication. It supposedly contains the only complete list of mills and millers.
So if that's correct, then my family came from either Queen's, Westmeath or Carlow.
If I can get better with Slater's, maybe I can find more family names there. This mystery hunt sure is fun, though!
Joyce
It is nice when something falls into place....Where are you living?
If mill was in Westmeath I live near there so might be able to take photo for you.....if you are not in Ireland.
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Gosh, that's so kind of you to offer! I live near Orlando, Florida, and I've never even been to Ireland. I'm trying to do as much research as I can before I visit so that I can make the most of my time there. I'm hoping to make the trip within the next year or two.
But I'm not sure what you'd take a picture of, exactly. Surely very little from the 1800's survives today, does it? If you're thinking of posting some pictures of the area, especially around Ardbrennan, I'd truly love to see them.
It's funny you mentioned Roscommon, as most of the "clues" we've pieced together this far all point to that county. I found a Peter Casey about the right age on a ship that arrived in New York and on the passenger list it said he was from Roscommon and was bound for Ohio, which definitely fits my guy. Of course, it could fit quite a few others, too.
And then there's the item from the Search for Missing Friends in the Boston Globe where a Peter Casey in Ohio was looking for his cousin Bridget Flanagan from Corgowan, Kilglass parish, Roscommon. It's all quite intriguing to me.
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Mills from 1800's are everywhere, some in ruins but many of them turned into beautiful residences.. One of the local mills was sold for one penny 10 years ago... beautiful riverside apartments now!!
Reasonable bargain!!
The local council sold it off as they could find no owner and after 100 years the title died, they didn't want the responsibility for it!
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No mill there now!!
Reg. No. 15402411
Date 1780 - 1820
Townland ARDBRENNAN
County County Westmeath
Coordinates 227886, 248474
Categories of Special Interest ARCHITECTURAL SOCIAL
Rating Regional
Original Use bridge
In Use As bridge
Description
Single-arched road bridge over small stream/former millrace built c.1800. Constructed of limestone rubble with dressed limestone voussoirs to arch. Parapet walls capped with vertically aligned stones. Located to the west of Loughanavally.
Appraisal
A well-built small-scale bridge, which retains its early form and fabric. The use of a local building material in the construction of this bridge helps it to blend into its surrounding environment. This bridge is very typical of the many small-scale bridges that were built by the Grand Juries to improve the transport system in Ireland, particularly during the late eighteenth and early-nineteenth centuries, a period of relative economic prosperity. This single-arch road bridge is part of the local infrastructure and as such is of social significance. This bridge may be associated with a former corn mill, now demolished, which was sited to the northeast of this bridge. A mill pond is shown adjacent to the west of this bridge on the 1838 map of the area, now silted up. This bridge remains an assuming element of the engineering and transport heritage of Ireland.
From http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=WM®no=15402411
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Most common surnames in Killare in 1854
Surname No. of households
Cormac 13
Kearney 11
Kelly 11
Dalton 7
Finn 7
Loughlin 7
Nally 7
Scally 7
Casey 6
Daly 6
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/townlands/index.cfm?fuseaction=TownlandsInCivil&civilparishid=2474&civilparish=Killare&citycounty=Westmeath
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Joyce,
I so hope you are still looking at this.
I just found your thread today and have info that may help.
My family is descendant from a Francis Kenny (1803-1891) in Strokestown, Co. Roscommon, Ireland.
His wife was a CASEY (we don't know her first name)
But here is the Kicker, Francis was a Ropemaker in Strokestown.
So there had to be some kind of Fiber mill nearby!! Combined with the fact that he was married to a Casey.
The little bit of info I have on the Casey side is as follows.
The Mrs. (Casey) Kenny had at least 2 siblings
1st - Maria Casey married to Martin Conry of Tulsk, Co. Roscommon
2nd - Philip Casey, who was a leader of the "Young Ireland" movement and was convicted of treason for his part in the rebellion against the English in Jun 1848. He was banished to Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) where he worked for a wealthy sheep rancher. The rancher left him all his property when he died but the government confiscated it on the grounds that Philip Casey was a felon.
Francis Kenny and ? Casey had 16 children.
I have a partial packet of papers from a J. Vincent Kenny, written July 2nd, 1993 about The Kenny Family.
Let me know if this helps. The whole time I was reading the thread I kept thinking that Strokestown or the area there abouts would be a good place to look for a Mill.
Let me know if you find any new info on this, if this is a connection, cause this is where I'm stumped too. I too hope to someday get to Ireland too.
Alicia
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Alicia,
I can't believe I'm really no further along than I was 5 years ago! I thank you for sharing your information, but I really don't know if there's a connection or if there's anyway I can pursue it.
We don't even know what type of mill - grain or textile. The grain (corn mills as they were called) were much more numerous than the textile ones, but in any case, any mill they had would have been defunct by the time Griffith's Valuation was done in the mid 1850's.
The only immigration details that I have been able to document with any certainty is that my g-grandparent, Peter Casey, took the first step toward naturalization in Cincinatti, Ohio, on Oct. 20, 1858, and stated his age as 23, making birth year 1835. Of course, I know that they usually had no clue when they were born, just guessed at it and the age changed with every later census. In these initial papers, he says he arrived in the US from port of Liverpool on May 9, 1853, but this was also just a guess because I searched and he wasn't on any ship that day. There's a Peter Casey who arrived the end of May that year, one who arrived mid-June that year, and one who came in 1854, any of whom could have been my ancestor. His witness for naturalization was a Patrick Casey, and I'm thinking that was most likely a sibling.
I still haven't made it over to Ireland but am hoping to go next year. I sure do wish I could "find" him, and although I keep searching, doubt I will.
I wish you luck in your search and we'll keep in touch and hopefully be able to share more information!
Joyce