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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Carmarthenshire Lookup Requests => Carmarthenshire => Wales => Carmarthenshire Completed Requests => Topic started by: ian-nz on Sunday 16 November 08 03:07 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find information on my GGgrandmother Ann Thomas. Born Llanelly (Llaneldy on a document we have)
in about 1848. She married Richard James and died in Queensland Australia in 1921.
Thanks
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have you any idea when and where she married? When did they emigrate? Were any of their children born here? Several possible Ann Thomas b. Llanelly/Llanedy entries on the 1851 census, so any info you have that might help would be good.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llanedi/index.html
Couple of possible marriages - pages have an Ann Thomas & a Richard James
december quarter 1866 Llanelly vol 11a pg 1015
march qtr 1872 Newport Mon vol 11a pg 256
The Llanelly one would seem nore likely. The cert would give the names of the fathers and their occupations which would help with finding Ann on an early census.
Could this be them on the census?
1871 24 Park St, Caegurwen, Llanguick RG10/5436 folio 82 pg 12
Richard James head mar 25 collier b. Llanguick, Glamorgan
Ann wife 23 b. Llanedy, Carmarthenshire
Margaret Ann dau 3 b. Llanguick
David son 6 months b. Llanguick
Margaret's surname has been transcribed as Jones, but I'm not convinced and there's no marriage showing up for Richard James and Ann Jones.
1881 3 Jenkin St, Porth, Llanwonno RG11/5296 folio 111 pg 46
Richard James head mar 35 coal miner b. Glam
Ann wife 33 b. Carmarthenshire
Margaret dau 13 b. Glam
David son 10 b. Glam
Rachel dau 7 b. Glam
Mary dau 5 b. Glam
Elizabeth dau 3 b. Glam
David Thomas boarder 45 coal miner b. Carmarthenshire
Griffith Thomas boarder 18 coal miner b. Glam
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Hi Osprey, Thanks for helping me with my family tree.I recently got the marriage cert of Margaret Ann James to William
Grey on 2nd Sep 1884 in Maryborough Qld.Margaret was 17, I think she may have been younger though.Her parents were listed as Ann Thomas and Richard James -Miner.I found them on the 1881 Census in Jenkin St Llanwonno but
couldn't find Margaret in the 1871 so you have solved that one for me.That must be her under the name Jones.
I have found the James family on a shipping list.They left Plymouth on23.11.1882 on the ship Almora and arrived in
Brisbane on13.1.1883. There was Richard, Ann, Margt, David, Mary and Eliza., no Rachel, she must have died 1881/2.
I have no idea when Richard and Ann married but the 1866 Llanelly sounds about right. Thanks for that.
I found a death for a Ann James on the Qld BDM 1921 Parents David Thomas and Margaret Maurice. Don't know if this is the right ones.I guess i'll only find out if I order a death cert.
Thanks again for your help. A few more pieces in the puzzle.
Pauline
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Well, that family does seem to match, so that's good. Can't see a death reg for Rachel in the UK, perhaps she died on the voyage?
Possible birth registrations for Margaret Ann in june qtr, sept qtr and dec qtr 1867 in Neath registration district, so she could have been just 17 when she married.
Richard & Ann's marriage cert would give you the details of both their fathers. I can't see an Ann Thomas with parents David & Margaret, but I did find this possible family
1851 Garnfach, Llanedy HO107/2469 folio 333 pg 12
David Thomas head mar 40 mainer(?) & collier b. Glam, Swansea
Ann wife 41
Mary dau 11
David son 9
Sarah dau 7
Ann dau 4
Elizabeth dau 1
Elizabeth Morris visitor 20
all born Llanedy unless otherwise stated
1861 Garnfach, Loughor, Llanedy RG9/4417 folio 89 pg 2
David Thomas head mar 50 coal miner b. Glam, Swansea
Ann wife 52 b. Carms, Llandebie
David son 18 coal miner
Ann dau 14
Elizabeth dau 12
Rachel dau 9
all born Llanedy unless otherwise stated
1871 Garnfach, Llanedy RG10/5472 folio 31 pg 10
David Thomas head unm 29 collier
Sarah sister unm 27 domestic servant
Elizabeth sister mar 22 visitor
Sara Ann Evans niece 6 months visitor
all born Llanedy
suspect Elizabeth's surname should be Evans, but there is a ditto under Thomas
can't find them in 1841 though.
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Hi again, That does seem a very good match and the children in both families have the same names.
I've found two deaths for Richard James in Qld could I trouble you to look up and see if either of these could be his parents.This one seems the most likely 1908 Parents Richard James and Mary Ann James.
1918 Thomas James and Ann Evans. Then the next step will be to order more certs.
Thanks again
Pauline
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Sorry, can't find you a Richard with either set of parents. From the place of birth in 1871, this looks the most likely family
Clynyboidy, Llanguick HO107/2464 folio 274 pg 16
James James head mar 34 collier
Margaret wife 29 b. Carmarthenshire, Llandeilo
William son 7
Richard son 5
Hannah dau 1
William James lodger 18 collier b. Carms, Llandeilo
William Morgan lodger 28 miner b. Carms, Lland(?)
David Davies lodger 20 miner b. Carms, Llandeilo
all born Llanguicke unless otherwise stated
possible marriage
James James june qtr 1842 Neath vol 26 pg 667 with 2 Margaret Jones and a Margaret Morgan on the same page
There's also a Richard in the same area with parents John & Elizabeth, but father & son were both farmers.
Only one Richard registered in the right period
Richard James sept qtr 1855 Neath vol 11a pg 389
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Thanks for the latest information .The James James does look possible.This family really has me puzzled.I'm wondering now if the parents returned to Wales after their youngest daughter married in 1912 as I can't find either of their deaths in the Qld BDM unless they died after 1929.Trying to find a shipping list now to see if they returned to Wales and died there.
Thanks again,
Pauline
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Pauline: Are Ann Thomas and Richard James the parents of Adelina Beatrice James, b 1890, who married Joseph James Ireland and lived at 37 Fitzroy St Rockhampton, Queensland? Adelina was my grandmother.
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Hi Markvey,
Lovely to hear from you. My Great Grandmother was Margaret Ann James born 1867 the eldest sister of Adelina Beatrice. Margaret Ann married William Grey and they had a daughter Pemilla Ethel Grey my Grandmother. Pemilla married Allan Ireland in 1910. Allan was the elder brother of Joseph James Ireland.
Please lets know if I can help you with any further information on this family.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline
Now I understand how you are related to both sides of mother's family and I can remember my mother trying to explain to me the complicated family relationships.
My mother was Ethel Lillian Harvey (1927 - 1998), youngest daughter of Joseph (Jim) and Adelina. I remember meeting your grandfather, my mother's Uncle Allan, at his house as a child during one of our visits to Rockhampton in the 1960s. He offered my brother and I a pink Easter egg in a clear cellophane bag and told us break it. When we didn't, he dropped it on the floor causing it to smash to pieces within the bag. My mother told me years later how amused the adults were at the expressions of horror on the faces of my brother and I.
I become curious about my mother's family after finding a photocopy of the death certificate of James Ireland, (d 1887) among old papers belonging to my father (recently deceased). My mother had never mentioned him. The postings under topics on rootchats about the Irelands in which you have participated were most informative. They brought back memories of relatives my mother used to talk about, including some I met many years ago. Auntie Lily who lived with Jim and Adelina, who had white hair and was deaf. Charlie Grey, who was a Methodist minister (I think). Auntie Elsie who used to send us Seventh Day Adventist magazines. Uncle Archie who owned a lot of valuable land - my mother received a small share of his estate. Auntie Mary, older sister of Adelina, (who I never met) but who owned a pug and was a Christian Scientist.
I certainly would like to ask you some more questions about the family. Did you find any information about Uncles Fred and Ernie who died unnatural causes in the 1950s? My recollection of what my mother told me is that Fred was killed in a horse-riding accident and Ernie shot himself, but I could have that mixed up. Do you know anything about the young child (a sister of Ann James?) who came out to Australia with the family from Wales? My mother spoke about how much the child's mother regretted giving up the child afterwards.
Being new to rootschat, I don't know if it is appropriate to keep exchanging information via public postings. Should we use the personal messages facility on this website?
Mark
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Hi Mark,
I have sent you a personal message. Please let me know if you do not receive it.
Pauline
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think Mark may need to post once more before being able to use the pm facility. He could just reply to this & say hello.
:D
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Related threads:
Ann and David Thomas:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,539718.0.html
Old Castle Mine Disaster Llanelli:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,542658.0.html