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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: jillian ann on Monday 17 November 08 11:30 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace back my Grt grt grandfather Daniel Ritchie who settled in Manchester around 1850's. The earliest I can trace him is a marriage cert 1853 Manchester Cathedral marrying Bridget Turner. I ordered the certificate hoping it would give a clue to his religion, but apparently a good deal of marriages took place there at that time, of many persuasions. All census records show Daniel a weaver by trade, as coming from Ireland nothing more.
Looking through the 1861 census records I found his elderly mother and father (father Robert is documented as 78 years old and "out of business") and grown up daughters none married, all power loom weavers, again all from Ireland but no clue as to where. :'(
I cannot trace them on the 1851 census, but I understand that some of the records were damaged for Manchester, so I cannot be certain when they settled in England
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Jill
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Hi
I looked on this site first which is for most of Ireland it is free to login and search, only 4 came up in my search, the map tells you what Counties are available
Church Baptism Ritchey Daniel 1832 Co. Down
Church Baptism Ritchie Daniel 1835 Co. Antrim
Church Baptism Ritchie Daniel 1843 Co. Down
Church Baptism Ritchie Daniel 1897 Co. Down
http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/index.php
Then checked site below which only covers Down and Antrim this is the only one that had Robert as father the other 3 spelt Ritchie fathers name was different
RITCHEY DANIEL 1832 Father is ROBERT Co down
http://www.ancestryireland.com/index.php?ai_home
I am not sure if this is him as there could be records that are missing.
Helena
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Hi Helenar
Many thanks for your reply, I have been so frustrated with this one as my knowledge on searching Irish records you could put on a postage stamp :-[, but yesterday I looked at these sites and came up with the same records. On purchasing the credit I looked at the Daniel Ritchey record and the mother is recorded as Sarah Wightman, father as Robert Ritchey and they are living in Dunmore, Magherah Hamlet,(presbyterian) Co. Down.
I have this family in the 1861 census for rawtenstall Manchester father is Robert and mother is a Sarah. Daniels age is right,the only difference is the spelling but I suppose many people were illiterate in them days.
Do you think that this is the right one?
Many thanks for your help Helenar
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Hi Jillian
Ritchie is not a common name, it looks like you may have the right family Daniel is not that common either and having both parents as Sarah and Robert is certainly interesting and you have the right year, you might want to do some more research to see if you can validate further.
I have found surnames to be wrong on more than one occasion, example of spelling variations are Stuart and Stewart, Moore and Muir, Crawford and Crauford, McCullough many variations, I have seen multiple variations of that same name in the same Parish. I have even found a Stuart/Stewart same person birth and marriage record having different spelling, variations did happen.
Here are some more sites for you to look around
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php
Above site put in both variations and you will find where the name is found in Ireland
http://www.emeraldancestors.com/
Above site take of the tick box for exact spelling
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/will_calendars/wills_search.htm
Search tips for the above site, Ritch* in the abstract field you can put in any thing e.g. name or place and check the tick box it will give you the name Ritchie/Ritchie where your other option in the abstract box appears. This will give you names that you are not looking for where the name Ritchie may appear e.g. executor or married sisters name etc.
In the forename field try *Ritch* don’t put in anything else and leave out surname but select a registry otherwise the search may not work this will give you anyone who may have the name as a middle name or even first name.
Check out Co. Down message forum board and someone may help further
Helena
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Here's another site to search Griffith's valuation (scanned images and in some cases maps):
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php
However, first you really need to find where the family lived in Ireland (parish if not actual townland).
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Thanks Aghadowey
That is site has a good search engine for the griffiths
Helena
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Thank you both very much for your replies, I was about to give up ::)
However, first you really need to find where the family lived in Ireland (parish if not actual townland).
I get very confused with parish, townland etc. The church baptism record shows address as Dunmore, Maghera Hamlet, (Presbyterian) Co Down. Any idea on how I would find the townland? or is part of this address townland ? please excuse my ignorance.....
I shall check out these sites. Once again thank you both very much for your help.
Jill
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Well, I live here and I'm cofused by the information you got as well.
Hamlet isn't a word I've come across much in Ireland.
The fact that Presbyterian is in brackets makes it seem as though the record came from a Presbyterian church but I would have thought the name of the church would be listed. Any Presbyterian baptisms from that period I've seen list the date of baptism, child's name, name of father, sometimes mother's name, and the townland.
Perhaps someone else can explain what the places in the record mean.
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my alphabetical index shows Dunmore as a townland in the civil parish of Dromara, Co Down. Nothing about Maghera, which could be a local name, not official.
eadaoin
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there is a maghera village and parish not far from castlewellan. maybe dunmore was the name of a house.
tony
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Mystery solved.
Magherahamlet Presbyterian Church founded c1826 (1st minister 1831 Rev. Thomas Clarke).
Photo on this page:
www.lissara.com/downpresbytery.htm
And this page explains how Dunmore fits:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PHOTOSwords/MagherahamletAll.htm
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Ros Davies keeps it simple and has plenty of Ritchies listed
Magherahamlet
(now part of Dromara parish)
20:35/48 Magherahamlet Seceeding Presbyterian Church in Drumgavelin townland
on the road between Seaforde & Dromara. This Meeting House began under the Secession Synod and was built in 1830 by private subscription.
Records- baptisms from 1831 & marriages from 1832. The graveyard near the church is small with mainly modern gravestones, gravestone inscriptions available UHF Vol 9; email me Ros davies for a gravestone look-up or pay per view gravestone inscriptons on www.irishgenealogy.ie References;V12 p 63, 66, 67 OSM ; GIC; MIs; POD
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Hi
Here is another option for gravestones go to history for headstones and you can compare what is available
http://www.ancestryireland.com/index.php
Helena
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Thank you all very much for your help on this one, I did find the church and matched the Rev Thomas Clarke to the Baptism record, so I'm sure it is the right church.
Just to clarify: I need to look for Drumgavelin townland -
Parish District : Magherahamlet
County Down
If I can associate the area with weavers then I think I would have cracked it.
Sadly, I have not been able to find any baptism records for the rest of the children but they were born before Daniel, so maybe in a different Presbyterian church in that area. I shall keep looking :)
Thank you all for your interest.
Jill
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Daniel's baptism is one of the earlier ones in the church so older siblings nearly had to have been baptised elsewhere.
Drumgavlin townland is in Dromara (civil) Parish.
There would have been weavers all over the area. In early 1800s weaving would have been done at home.
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Could the 2nd entry be your Daniel Ritchey from Ros Davies Co Down website
John RITCHIE . Dromara area part executor in the will of James McKenny of Drinn who d. 2 Apr 1901 PRONI wills
William RITCHIE . Dromara son of Daniel Ritchie ; married Margaret Patterson 8 Dec 1854 CR
looking for an earlier Presbyterian church, however I don’t know the area so a wild guess using Ros davies again might be
1st Dromara Presbyterian Church
in Ardtannagh townland on the road between Dromara and Banbridge
Records from 1763, for records see Batch # C700041 on www.familysearch.org; graveyard attached, oldest gravestone 1769; gravestone inscriptions Vol 19 UHF; email me Ros Davies for a gravestone look-up
For the earlier records I think I would keep an eye on the nearest Church of Ireland church to Dunmore as sometimes other denominations were included in some records so Ros davies again
Magherahamlet Dromara . once a parish & a townland; Church of Ireland here; Glebe house in Drumgavelin ;means ‘plain of the plague-cemetery’; school here V12 p 63, 66 OSM:BH; HMP so I found
Magherahamlet Church of Ireland
on the road between Ballynahinch & Castlewellan on the western shore of McAuley's Lough
The original medieval church was at Templemoyle in Dunmore townland. This present church was built to serve tourists visiting at nearby Spa. It was built in 1816 at a cost of £500 from Board of First Fruits and enlarged in 1870.
Some records destroyed in Dublin but PRONI has births, deaths & marriages 1823- 1862; Graveyard attached ,gravestones UHF Vol 9; oldest stone 1822; email me Ros Davies for a gravestone look-up or pay per view gravestone inscriptons on www.irishgenealogy.ie
References;V12 p 63, 66, 67 OSM; DR: V 9 MIs; GIC; DR 21/6/2006L
good luck, Jim
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Hiya Jim, many thanks for the information. I took a look at Ros Davies Co Down website but I cannot place the John entry even though Daniel had a son John but he was born in Haslingden, Rawtenstall, Manchester. Daniel also had a son William ( my grt grandfather) but he was not born until 1864/65 again in Manchester, they could be cousins of Daniel or related in someway. O I also noticed in the 1861 census for Rawtenstall that there is a John Ritchie living with Daniels parents Robert and Sarah but he is down as a lodger, so maybe he is Daniels brother, he is about the same age and a weaver as well. I shall have to keep them in mind. Really good site. So thanks for that. :-*
I also looked at family.org with that batch number, but no Ritchie/Ritchey there.
I did notice the church that was built for the spa tourists, so maybe I might get lucky there.
I have a feeling that Daniels family left Ireland during the famine years, but the earliest record I have for Daniel being in Manchester England is 1853 marriage cert. He married a Bridget Turner from Cumbria and it looks like his first child was born in Scotland 9 mths later :o, I was hoping to find him on 1851 census somewhere maybe with the rest of the family. To no avail.... I shall have to keep looking.
Many thanks for your interest.
regards Jill
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The Wightman family still live on Dunmore Road which is quite near Magherahamlet Presbyterian and Magherahamlet (C of Ireland) Parish churches. The Wightmans have Business premises on the Dunmore Road.