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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: livia on Thursday 20 November 08 10:41 GMT (UK)
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My question is centered on my great grandmother Hannah Eleanora Maddison born in South Australia in 1878. She was the daughter of George and Ann from Durham England, and I have the names of her siblings.
Hannah's eldest son Alfred James Maddison (1898-1934) was my maternal grandfather. Hannah Maddison married Charles Henry Motley in 1899 and had two sons, Charles Henry (known as Mick) born 1902, and James Roydon (known as Roy) born in 1904. What we have only just found out is that they also had a daughter, Ruby Eleanor Ann, born 5 March 1900, died 31 July 1951. There appears to have been hardly any contact between Hannah and Alfred's family after he died, so I know hardly anything about what happened to her or her other children. In particular, I am most curious to know why nobody in the family had ever heard about Ruby. Any information would be very welcome.
Livia
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HI Livia
Its hard to answer why the family didnt talk, we would only be assuming, ? Are you in contact with the children/grandchildren of Ruby, or the other brothers, maybe they may know something ?
Daizi
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Hi Daizi
I have never had any contact with any of Hannah's three children by Charles Motley or their descendents. I believe one of the two sons went to NSW and nobody knew what happened to the other one. The only surviving child of Alfred says she had no idea her father had a half sister Ruby. I get the feeling there were some skeletons in the closet. It may be that Ruby had a disability which, in 1900, might have meant she was put in an institution and 'forgotten', but this is just a guess. On second thoughts, I will put the name Motley in my subject line. Maybe information will come from that family or their connections.
Livia
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From http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/
MOTLEY, CHARLES HENRY
Service Australian Army
Service Number VX41239
Date of Birth 4 Jan 1902
Place of Birth ADELAIDE, SA
Date of Enlistment 28 Jun 1940
Locality on Enlistment BALRANALD, VIC
Place of Enlistment CAULFIELD, VIC
Next of Kin MOTLEY, ROY
Date of Discharge 4 Oct 1940
Rank Private
Posting at Discharge 2/22 TB
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No
MOTLEY, ROYDON JAMES
Service Australian Army
Service Number SX275
Date of Birth 8 May 1905
Place of Birth ADELAIDE, SA
Date of Enlistment 20 Oct 1939
Locality on Enlistment PARKSIDE, SA
Place of Enlistment KESWICK, SA
Next of Kin MOTLEY, ANNIE
Date of Discharge 28 Apr 1941
Rank Private
Posting at Discharge 2/33 Battalion
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No
Cando
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Hell o there
Do you have when Charles Motely died? did Hannah remarry?
Jenn
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From NSW BDM
Death
37735 1969
MOTLEY Roydon James
Father Charles Mother Hannah
District St Leonards
The purchase of this cert would give you any family he had. ie if it was known to the informant.
Transcriptions are a cheaper and quicker option. Details on NSW BDM website
From http://www.rootsweb.com/~nswsdps/dpsindex.htm
MOTLEY Roydon James Death notice 21SEP1969 Death late of Mosman
Sydney Morning Herald 23SEP1969
There is a facility on the website to request a copy of the notice. Lookups done by volunteers.
Cheers
Cando
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From Vic Indexes
Death
MOTLEY Charles Henry
Father Unknown Mother UNKNOWN
Death Plac: Armadale 64 years 1966 Reg# 1181
Cheers
Cando
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Marriage in NSW
12037 1940
MOTLEY Roydon James
KLUMPP Amelia Annie
District North Sydney
Cando
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Thank you so much, Cando, at last I can start to fill in a few gaps. In answer to your questions Jenn, I don't know where or when Charles Motley died. Hannah was not married when she had her first son Alfred James Maddison in 1898: her first marriage was to Charles Motley in Adelaide on 18 April 1899 and their first child was the mysterious missing Ruby born in 1900. I have been led to believe that a daughter of the son Charles Henry (Mick) Motley is still alive but I haven't a clue where she is. I wonder whether she knows about her 'Aunt Ruby".
I appreciate your interest and help.
Livia
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The NAA Recordsearch has got Alfred James Maddison's WWI papers, they mention his mother but not any other relatives.
Where did Hannah die and where is she buried? Perhaps her husband and Ruby are also there with her.
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Hi,
MOTLEY Charles Henry
Father Unknown Mother UNKNOWN
Death Plac: Armadale 64 years 1966 Reg# 1181
This Charles...
Charles Motley is interred at Springvale Crem/Cem
21/1/1966
Also there is Elizabeth Emma Motley. 3/4/1962
who may be a relative.
Sue
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Death
MOTLEY Elizabeth Emma
Father Oram William Mother UNKNOWN
At Melbourne 85 years 1962 Reg# 6034
Cando
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Deaths in SA
MOTLEY Charles
16 Jan 1934
60 years Status Married No relative noted
Residence Mitcham Park Death Place Springbank
Ref Ade I 555/345
Symbol I Indefinite Death Date Registered such as about 16 Jan 1934
MOTLEY Ruby Eleanor Ann
31 Jul 1951 51 years Status Single
Residence Eastwood Death Place Eastwood
Ref Nor H 771/4435
Symbol H indicates Ruby died in a hospital or place of care.
MOTLEY Hannah Eleanora
18 Sep1965 86 years Status Widow
Relative Charles Henry MOTLEY [Deceased Husband]
Residence Norwood Death Place Northfield
Ref PtA H 997/6381
Livia you can purchase transcriptions of bdm certificates from http://www.saghs.org.au
for $15 and you should get the following information.
1908-1947
* Date and Place of Death
* Name
* Sex
* Age
* Occupation
* Usual Residence
* Birthplace
* Length of Residence in Commonwealth
* Age at Marriage
* Number of Issue Living and Deceased
* Cause of Death
* Place of Death
* Informant
1948-1967
As for 1908-1947 with the addition of
* Place of Burial
I wonder if Ruby died at Glenside Hospital.
Cheers
Cando
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Again, thank you all for your help. Word in the family was that Charles Motley died young of an alcohol-related problem - death date of 1934 suggests that he wasn't all that young, but 'I' with the death registration might fit with his reputation of being disreputable - poor man. I should be able to find out where Hannah is buried and check to see if Ruby ended up with her - good idea, thanks. In 1951, when Ruby died, Glenside hospital was called Parkside. It was and is a psychiatric hospital; the name was changed in the 1960s when the surrounding high wall was demolished in an effort to present a less stigmatised image. A death cert for Ruby is probably the way to go.
Gratefully
Livia
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I have checked the online access through A........y
to Electoral Rolls and neither Charles Henry or his brother Royston James appear in Victoria or NSW up to 1936.
interesting to note the death of Alfred MAddison in 1934, do you have an actual date of death please?
Jenn
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In 1951, when Ruby died, Glenside hospital was called Parkside. It was and is a psychiatric hospital; the name was changed in the 1960s when the surrounding high wall was demolished in an effort to present a less stigmatised image. A death cert for Ruby is probably the way to go.
Gratefully
Livia
Remember the high wall and its demolition :) It was known as the Parkside Lunatic Asylum [1870-1913]. The name was then changed to the Parkside Mental Hospital [1913-1967] and finally in 1967 to the Glenside Hospital.
I wonder if there was an inquest in Charle's death... There is an index to SA inquests in a book listed on
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2169978
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks very much for those Motley look-ups, and I will get onto the inquests link. Alfred James Maddison died 29 April 1934. I know a reasonable amount about him; he was my maternal grandfather and I have his war service record. I figure if I can find more Motley information and possibly some Motley descendents I may get some clues about Hannah who appears to have been cut off from Alfred's family after Alfred's death.
Livia
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Just a quick note. My mother Beryl Alchin (Maddison) is 92 next month and is the daughter of Alfred James Maddison, son of Hannah Eleanora Motley nee Maddison. She is the only one of her family still alive today, and is in a nursing home in Adelaide, South Australia, still very much 'with it'.
I am Beryl's youngest daughter, and my sister and I have a great interest in looking into mum's family. My sister can remember going with Mum to meet Hannah many years ago when she lived at Norwood (? in her daughter's house). Today I spoke with a Peter Motley, son of Geof Motley (a famous Port Adelaide football family) who also knows a bit of the family history. I know Mum's father (Alfred) was a mad Port fan, so that all makes sense because he lived in the Port Adelaide area.
From what we know, and from what we have gleaned from my Mum, it was Hannah who cut herself off from the family once Alfred (her son) died, not the Maddison family cutting her off.
I hope we can hear further from you.
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Great to hear from you Robyn. Mum is going well. No family secrets to share from her point of view. It's good to read about the family. Jan and I now have an interest in researching both Mum and Dad's family trees and hope to spend more time in future days doing so.
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As I said in the PM, good luck with your investigations. Of the people I spoke to with direct knowledge of the 20th century family, your mother is the only one still alive but there is one line of enquiry I might get back to. I discontinued it because the stony silence and closing of ranks from various quarters was quite off-putting (as it was obviously meant to be). Perhaps one last try ...
Best wishes
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Neither Charles MOTLEY nor his wife Hannah enrolled to vote in South Australia in 1909.
Maintenance hearing in 1909.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5169940
This is Charles and Hannah's son.
The News 12 Mar 1929
ORDER AGAINST HUSBAND
An order for 10/ a week each for the maintenance of his wife and two children was made against Charles Motley, of Adelaide, by, Mr. G. W. Halcombe, S.M. Mr. P. Magarey and Mrs. M. Wallington in No. 2 Adelaide Police Court today. Mrs. Motley was granted a separation
and custody of the children. Mr. C. J. Philcox represented Mrs.Motley.. Costs amounting to £2 4/6 were allowed against Motley.
Marriage
MOTLEY Charles Henry 18 years Status single Father Charles
ENRIGHT Gertrude Margaret 19 years Status Single Father Michael John ENRIGHT
24 Jul 1920
At the residence of Archbishop Adelaide Ade 284/353
Births
MOTLEY Dorothy Margaret
30 Dec 1920
Father Charles Henry MOTLEY Mother Gertrude Margaret ENRIGHT
At Rose Park Nor 68A/436
MOTLEY Jack Henry
28 May 1923
Father Charles Henry MOTLEY Mother Gertrude Margaret ENRIGHT
At Adelaide Ade 115A/485A
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article36471852
The Advertiser 19 Jan 1934
Man Found Dead In Hills Identified
The man who was found dead on Wednesday at Springbank, has been identified as Charles Motley, 60, unemployed laborer, of Kingston avenue, Mitcham Park. It is said that he left home on Saturday evening with the intention of walking to the Murray in search of work. An inquest
will be held at 2.30 pm. on Tuesday by the City Coroner (Mr. Blackburn).
Australian Electoral Roll
1939, 1941, 1943
MOTLEY Hannah Elenor 23 Buckwell Road, Glanville Home duties
1939, 1941
MOTLEY Roydon James Corny Point Farm Labourer
Victoria - the locality on his attestation papers was Balranald
1942
MOTLEY Charles Henry, River Bank, Swan Hill Labourer
1943
MOTLEY Charles Henry 119 Napier Street, Fitzroy Labourer
1949, 1954
MOTLEY Charles Henry 42 Osborne Street, South Yarra Labourer
1963
MOTLEY Charles Henry 45 Peel Street, Prahran No occupation
Buried at West Terrace Cemetery -
MOTLEY Charles Interred on 19 Jan 1934 at 60 Years of age.
Located at Road 5 Extension, Row C1, Site 31. Appears to be a public grave as there are eight other persons buried at the same location in 1930 and 1934.
MOTLEY Hannah Eleanora Died on 18 Sep 1965 at 86 Years of age.
Previously lived in GLANVILLE, SA.
Located at Section M. Drive C, Path 5(27) Site 169N.
Also at the same location
MOTLEY Ruby Eleanor Interred on 1 Aug 1951 at 51 Years of age.
Previously lived in GLANVILLE, SA.
MADDISON Jane Ann Interred on 16 May 1949 at 72 Years of age.
Previously lived in GLANVILLE, SA .
and
MADDISON Alfred James Interred on 30 Jul 1934 at 36 Years of age.
Previously lived in PROSPECT PARK .
Located at Light Oval, Row 45, Site 37.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article47554672
MADDISON THE FRIENDS of the late ALFRED JAMES MADDISON. late 30th Battalion. A.I.F are respectfully inform that his Funeral will leave his residence 14 Balfour street. Prospect Park, on MONDAY, at 4 p.m., for the A.I.F. Cemetery. West terrace.
P. LeCORNU. Undertaker. O'Connell street. North Adelaide. C 313.
After hours. Prospect road. Prospect. K2368, or M 2743. U3566.
Perhaps you have found this info since your initial enquiry.
Cando
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Hello Cando - you're a marvel (as always). I do have that info, thank you, but it will be a great start to Hensy who has just started the big search.
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Hi Livia....glad it will be useful. :)
Cando
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In relation to reply 20 on 29 March, Alfred James Maddison (first child of Hannah Eleanora Motley - nee Maddison) the funeral was held at The Salvation Army in Balfour Street and the family home where he died, was 14 Hudson Street. Just a minor detail but our family lived in that house with Alfred James Maddison's youngest daughter, Beryl Alfreda Alchin (my mother) until I was 8 years of age. Jan
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Thank you for all your help.
Helen
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Hi Jan :)
Welcome to rootschat :)
In relation to reply 20 on 29 March, Alfred James Maddison (first child of Hannah Eleanora Motley - nee Maddison) the funeral was held at The Salvation Army in Balfour Street and the family home where he died, was 14 Hudson Street. Just a minor detail but our family lived in that house with Alfred James Maddison's youngest daughter, Beryl Alfreda Alchin (my mother) until I was 8 years of age. Jan
Thank you for your input. We can only transcribe what appears in the funeral notices newspapers of the day :).
Cheers
Cando