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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: turramurra on Tuesday 25 November 08 21:50 GMT (UK)
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Joseph SMITH b. c1773 ENG
Transported to NSW on "Neptune " 2nd Fleet
married Margaret Holmes b.c1774Eng. convict, 3rd Fleet in Windsor NSW Australia.
They had 4 children
Searching all family history
Joseph Smith buried on property St Albans NSW near Mc Donald River
Turramurra
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Turramurra, Joseph was my g-g-g-grandfather by direct descent; I'd like to share more info with you if possible. Are you related? Do you by any chance have a photo of his grave?
I know little beyond the Old Bailey record and that he was from St Clement Danes [*edited 6/10] probably from London; have you found any prior history, e.g. birth record, parents?
Andrea
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Hi Andrea I am also direct decent from Joseph Smith convict 1776-1856 my father is Joseph Smith son of Frank Smith son of Joseph Smith etc. I also have not been able to track any details before trial. I see that you have found out where he came from in England which is more than I have been able to find. I am also trying to sort out which children were from his marriage to Margaret Mary Holmes and which children were from her previous three partners. I do not think she was married to the others. I am trying to find out where a search could be made as to his parents etc.
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Hi, KASmith -
Firstly, you may notice that I've had to edit my first post: on checking I found that I'd confused Joseph with his long-term friend (also from the 'Neptune') William Baker. Joseph's son William married William Baker's daughter Elizabeth. (The families were also linked when William Baker jnr married Mary Ann Smith!)
Now, you say in your post 'my father is Joseph Smith son of Frank Smith son of Joseph Smith etc.' I'm not sure which generation you've gone back to; is that Frank a son of Joseph Smith jnr & Mary Hannabus?
Concerning Margaret Holmes: I have an extract from the book 'William Baker, Gentleman', which states:
...the transport Mary Ann...sailed from England 16th February 1791 and arrived Port Jackson 9th July 1791, having on board 150 female convicts of whom 9 died on the passage. Of those who survived, one Margaret Holmes was later to become the wife of Joseph Smith and to officially bear him three children, two of whom were to marry children of William Baker.
This suggests that Margaret bore three children to Joseph Smith, but she certainly had at least one other before that. The web site <www.easystreetretreat.com.au> has more info about Margaret, and quotes from C J Smee's 'Third Fleet Families of Australia' (I'd love a copy!): 'During the voyage or shortly afterwards, Margaret and a seamen named Morrison conceived a child born 28 Apr 1792 at Sydney Cove named William.'
There is more info again on the 'SMITH-HOLMES' web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~allansmyth49/smith_holmes_family_page.htm
And two other partners mentioned were William SMITH (by whom she apparently had a son and a daughter), and Patrick SHANNON (By whom she had another son).
I've not verified any of the above - not even sure how much is verifiable! - only the three that Margaret bore Joseph Smith.
So, I'm not able as yet to shed much more light on the familes. Do you know much about their life in Australia?
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Hi Wotname,
Many thanks for your very helpful info. It has taken me a while to sort these contacts and I must say I am still working on it. The issue seems to be that Joseph Smith and Margaret Holmes had children before they were officially married. ie there was Elizabth Smith born 1802, Joseph Smith 1804, William smith 1809, Mary Ann Smith 1811, Sarah Smith 1811 and James Henry Smith 1813. This makes 6 children possibly coming from this partnership. I will have to do more research to see if this is true.
Yes, my gggg grandfather was the Joseph Smith convict 2nd fleet and my father (Joseph Smith) is the child of Frank Smith and Jane Lewis. Frank Smith was the son of Joseph Smith 1804 and Mary Hannabus. I am about to receive all the heritage and family tree information compiled by my 101 year old aunty Linda Smith daughter of Frank. When it arrives I will be able to list a lot more information for you about their life in Australia.
KASmith:)
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Just one correction here, KASmith: Elizabeth (b. 1802) was probably Joseph's daughter, but was not Margaret's; at that tme Margaret was with someone else -- either William SMITH (not connected to us) or Patrick SHANNON. The general opinion, with no evidence to the contrary, is that Elizabeth's mother was an Aboriginal woman.
I only have definite info about three offspring from Joseph & Margaret: Joseph (1804-1856), William (1809-1881), and Mary Ann (1811-1912) -- but I have no birth certificates as proof, just the NSW BDM listings.
Have just arrived at our next house-sit, so won't have much time for a few days; will keep looking, though! ;))
Cheers -- Andrea
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I am decended from a John Smith for whom we only have few records- Father: Joseph; b about 1807; m Sarah Sisley 4 Sept 1840 in Bathurst; chn Martha, John, Elizabeth, Fanny and Thomas; lived in Orange or Molong area when married; d 2 May 1896. This seems really similar to the story of Elizabeth in that there is no mother listed. We have also wondered about John having an Aboriginal mother. Does anyone have any clues as to whether John could be Elizabeth's sister or if there was a John in Joseph's complicated family?
Thanks.
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Hi KA Smith,
I realise it's been a really long time since this thread was commented on but I was hoping you might be able to help me out with some information regarding Rex Lewis Smith the son of Frank Lewis Smith if you don't mind please?
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This is an answer and possible help to those people searching the Ancestry of convict Joseph SMITH who married Margaret Holmes at St Matthews Church Windsor NSW Australia,1812.
Whilst there is complicated lineage from this union as both Joseph and Margaret had children prior to their marriage, there is a strong line from their son Joseph b.15th April in Richmond NSW ,died 20th September1856,married Mary Hannaway/Hannabus in St James ,Pitt Town, daughter of John Hannaway and Ann Edwards.
Their son Joseph SMITH b.13th September, 1841 Pitt Town NSW married Jane LEWIS b.9th May in Green Swamp Mudgee daughter of William and Susannah Lewis born 1842.The marriage took place in 1866 at st James Mudgee NSW.
They had many children,
Ida and May b. 1866
Ella Louise b.1867
Edward H.B.b.1869
Hilda Mary b.1871
Frank Lewis b.1872
Eveline Kate b.1874
Alice Elizabeth b.1876
Roland W Joseph b.1877 Reginald George b. 1879
Isabel Ada b.1882
I have been given various family research from descendants of some of these children,
Ella Louise
Hilda Mary (my great grandmother)
Alice Elizabeth
With some searchin,g the person trying to trace the ancestry of Frank Lewis may have some results from these contacts.
I will send a P.M. to those wishing to find family history.
Hope this is helpful,
Turramurra
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For people who believe that Joseph Smith married to Margaret Holmes, had a daughter Elizabeth Smith with an Aboriginal woman Mary Darkinjung in 1799 (date from Elizabeths death date in 1846). It has been proven that Elizabeth is not Josephs daughter. Autosomal Ancestry DNA results of descendants of Elizabeth and John Bailey show no Melanesian or Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander in their Ethnicity results. A few of her descendants have Aboriginal from other Known sources not linked to Elizabeth. To conclusively find if Elizabeth was or was not Aboriginal, a mtDNA test was done at FTDNA on a direct female line from her daughter Margaret. This test showed a common English haplogroup H1bb, thereby proving that Elizabeth had no Aboriginal Heritage. We are now actively searching test results to find Elizabeth's true identity.