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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Soulskin on Wednesday 26 November 08 09:02 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for any family links to William Cleator born abt 1846 in Isle of Man and his wife Catherine Kneale born abt 1845 in Isle of Man. They were married in Jurby IOM on 18th Feb 1865.
They had 3 children in IOM; William born abt 1866, Arthur born abt 1868 and John born abt 1871. They then moved to Lancashire where they had Andrew born about 1875 and Frederick born July 1881.
Fredericks wife Mary emmigrated to Australia in 1926 following his death in WW1 and subsequently lost contact with Cleator relatives in England. As I am descendant through Frederick, any information about the lives of this family after 1900 would be greatly appreciated.
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do you have the details from the commonwealth war graves of frederick's death ? if not i can post them for you
regards
belinda
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do you have frederick's and Mary's marriage - june 1916 - mary cameron to frederick j cleator in liverpool
regards
belinda
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Wow Belinda! Thanks.
I have a copy of the marriage which my grandfather got about 30 years ago by posting to and from England. But the year seems to have been changed. It actually looks like it has be rubbed out and changed to 1911 and I always questioned the timing as their ages listed on the marriage dont match wi their birth dates. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
From what Grandpa learned, Frederick was buried at Gorre British cemetery near Beuvry in France.
The number attached is YP 9/4198 and came from a certificate the army gave Mary. So I'm guessing this is correct.
When I speak to Grandpa this week he will be blown away at just how quickly you were able to give me this information when he has spent years tracking Fred (His father whom he never met as he died in France when Grandpa was only 6 months old.)
Hopefully Rootschat will help me get some more info for him that will make him a bit happy. ( Not easy at 92). :)
Thanks heaps for your trouble.
Soulskin.
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Pls find below the full details from the CWGC:-
Casualty details
name CLEATOR
initials F J
Nationality U.K.
rank PRIVATE
regiment/service East Lancashire Regiment
Unit text: 2nd/5th Bn
Age 35
Date of death 13/04/1917
Service No. 242427
Additional information : Son of william and catherine Cleator; husband of Mary Cleator of 41 Cardwell street, Edgehill, Liverpool. Native of Liverpool.
Casualty Type commonwealth war dead
Grave/memorial reference V11.B.8.
Cemetery GORRE BRITISH AND INDIAN CEMETERY
regards
Belinda
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if you log onto the commonwealth war graves commission site you can find the details easily and there is also the picture of the cemetery and the Memory of Private F J Cleator.
Hope this makes you grandad happy
belinda
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Hi there again,
do you have the 1901 census ?
41 Cardwell street
Catherine Cleator Head Widow age 57 born I.O.M
Frederick J Cleator son age 19 born liverpool
William Kerruish Boarder age 26 born I.O.M.
Thomas Kerriush boarder age 22 born I.O.M.
living next door at 39 Cardwell Street
John F Cleator Head age 30 born I.O.M. paperhanger
Edith a cleator wife age 30 born liverpool
Catherine a dau age 9 born liverpool
John H cleator son age 6 born liverpool
REF RG13 PIECE 3495 FOLIO 133 PAGE 23
regards
belinda
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Belinda,
I had seen the 1901 census with catherine and fred.
Up until 6 months ago I believed him to be an only child.
But i went through an old tin of Marys belongings wi Grandpa and found a cut out death notice for Fred which had mention of a 'loving brother' John. That was when i started looking for reles. This would definately confirm the John Cleator at 39 Cardwell St. Thanks!
Grandpa always spoke about Cardwell St because he lived there with Catherine and Mary after Freds death until Catherine died. Although Im not sure of her exact death date. Just that its between 1917 and 1926.
I have also seen on a 1891 Census a William T Cleator born 1864 aged 27 living in Toxteth Park. I cant remember why I thought this mite link. It may be because the only death I can find for William Cleator b1845 is in Toxteth Park and i thought maybe they were linked as father and son.
Will go through my stuff and see where the Toxteh Park link came from, but it may just be a presumption of mine or my grandfathers part in desperation to find a link.
How late are the census details available?
Will do some more checking today and let you know what I can confirm.
Would be so much easier had they just kept in touch back in 1926 like they did with Marys family. :(
Thanks again.
Soulskin.
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Hi Belinda,
I just got another amazing respose from a lady on an ancestry message board. Following is what she has found. This might help me lead to something else.
"So far I have discovered the following about the Cleator family:
Arthur Kneale Cleator b. C1868 died Dec Q 1873 age 6 West Derby 8b 372
John Thomas Cleator b. C1871 married Edith Adelaide Blake Sep Q 1890 Liverpool 8b 217
Children:
Catherine A b. 1892
John H b. 1895 West Derby
Catherine A married William J Wood Jun Q 1916 W. Derby
Son - Derrick W A born Jun Q 1920 Toxteth Park 8b 416
John H Cleator married Annie Binnion Sep Q 1923 West Derby
Son Harold H born Dec Q 1924 8b 446
Andreas Cleator b. 1875 married Sep Q 1897 Margaret Jane Donald Liverpool 8b 8
Daughter Gertrude b. C1898 Liverpool
(There could be more children here between 1901 & 1911 when the mothers' maiden names are given. This is a bit of a black hole until the 1911 Census becomes available)
I am having problems tracing William W Cleator b. C1866 IOM
Will continue with grandchildren of John Thomas & see if I can bring things up to date."
What an amazing amount of information in such a short time frame.
Thanks.
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glad this is going well for you - i will have another look tonight or over the weekend and let you know what i find - keep me updated
regards
belinda
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in the 1881 census i have the following
william cleator head age 35 iron borer born isle of man
catherine cleator wife age 36 born isle of man
william w cleator age 15 born isle of man
john j cleator age 9 born isle of man
andrew cleator age 6 born liverpool
at this time living at 5 cardwell street, liverpool
ref is rg11 piece 3705 folio 103
regards
belinda
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hi there
i have found a death of a william w cleator dec 1925 w. derby liverpool aged 60 which would tie in with your william
regards
belinda
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Belinda,
Thanks for all the info.
I had another suggestion that there is a Wm walter married to a Charlotte A on the 1901 census for west derby. Which could be a match too but cant find him on the 1891.
There were 4 children listed on this 1901 census too;
Alfred aged 5
Herbert aged 1
Maggie aged 13
Walter aged 6.
I then found a Charlotte A Cleator death in mar 1925. If it is a married couple, then it Must have a horrible year for them if they both died .
Is there any way of finding out cause of death? Was it even listed? Do you need to actually buy the death certificate to get it?
I havent been able to find a death for William (born 1846 IOM) other than the one in toxteth park.
I know he died prior to 1916 as he was listed as deceased on Freds marriage cert. Any ideas?
Thanks for searching for me.
I will keep looking too and hopefully find out if any of the family is still around. Will let you know if I get any more info.
Soulskin.
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Hi Soulskin
You'll find William Walter & Charlotte in 91 at RG12 2994 folio 108 page 5.
They've been mistranscribed as Chater.
Cheers
Cuz
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Hi,
I was looking I on your chat for cleator Lancaster.
I am the son of Walter John Cleator.
Mother Isabella Black McConnell.
Our family trees seem to be dead on.
We should correspond.
Paul Cleator
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Hi Paul,
I am very sorry but Soulskin's email address has stopped working, sadly we have no been able to find an alternative way of contacting them online :'(
Regards
Sarah
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I have William Richard Cleator on my website
http://www.prescot-rollofhonour.info/alsoserved-33-William_Richard_Cleator.html (http://www.prescot-rollofhonour.info/alsoserved-33-William_Richard_Cleator.html)
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Hi Paul,
I am very sorry but Soulskin's email address has stopped working, sadly we have no been able to find an alternative way of contacting them online :'(
RegardsHi Paul,
I am very sorry but Soulskin's email address has stopped working, sadly we have no been able to find an alternative way of contacting them online :'(
Regards
Sarah
Thanks Sarah
Is there any other links to Cleator Liverpool,Isle of Man
Paul
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[/quote]
Thanks Sarah
Is there any other links to Cleator Liverpool,Isle of Man
Paul
[/quote]
I have sent you a PM.
Mike.
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Hi Paul,
Here are the links by searching for the words Cleator and Liverpool
William Cleator
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=672193.18
Henry cleator
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=93552.msg397596#msg397596
John Cleaton/cleator
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg104803#msg104803
I found these by putting cleator liverpool in the search box at the top, you can narrow the search to Lancashire or the Isle of man by clicking on the advanced search, click on Choose a board to search in and tick the area you wish to search.
The Isle of Man has its own board, there are 9 cleator posts and Lancashire has more if you take out Liverpool.
If you don't find any connections to your cleator family just start off a New topic and we can see what we can find out.
Regards
Sarah
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I am descendent of of William C. Cleator born 1810 in Whitehaven, Cumbria who died in Vinalhaven, Maine 1893, and perhaps of another William Cleator born 1827 and buried 1887 at WH & Preston Quarter Cemetery: grave #21, Ward 3. I would welcome any information about current Cleator family genealogy, including the relationship between William, and William C. Cleator. I have heard of Cleator family persons from Isle of Man also.
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Hi everyone.
I came here in search of the Cleator family too. I've just started out searching, and I have no idea what I'm doing, but my great grandmother was Frances Julia Cleator, born in West Derby 1875 and married to Henry Worthington in Toxteth Park, 1903. There must be a family link here. Anyone any idea how Frances was related to these Cleators?
Thanks in advance for any response.
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Hi
Welcome to RootsChat ;D ;D
Do you have the details of Julia Frances's marriage ? If not , I can post them for you. Give you a bit more info :)
claire
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Hi
Welcome to RootsChat ;D ;D
Do you have the details of Julia Frances's marriage ? If not , I can post them for you. Give you a bit more info :)
claire
Hi Claire, and thanks for the awesome welcome!
The only thing I know about their wedding is what I put above - with Henry Worthington, March 1903 in Toxteth Park. I haven't been able to find anything else out about them - parents, occupations or anything like that. If you could help me, or give me some advice on how to go about finding out I'd love that.
Thanks again.
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Hi
Details of the wedding
St Matthews 29 March 1903 Toxteth Park
Henry Worthington bachelor 31 a railway porter of 1 Dolling Street. Father:James Worthington- a Carter
Frances Julia Cleator spinster 27 general servant of 4 Dolling Streeet. Father: John Joseph Cleator ( deceased) policeman.
Both signed register
Witnesses: George Millson and Margaret Edith Cleator.
Claire
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West Derby registration district covers a wide area extending to Crosby and Bootle.
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Here is a list of some of the sites we all use, that are free of charge
familysearch.org
FreeReg
FreeBMD
FreeCEN
www.lan-opc.org.uk
claire
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This looks to be the family in 1881
Liverpool: 37 Hyslop Street
Joseph Cleator hd mar 44 police constable bn. ISLE of MAN
Margaret " wf 44 " " " "
John son unm 23 ship steward " " " "
Thomas " " 19 house painter " " " "
Walter " 9 scholar bn Liverpool
Sarah dau 7 " "
Frances " 5 "
Christina " 3 "
Mary E " 1 "
Class: RG11; Piece: 3636; Folio: 82; Page: 4;
Frances Julia Cleator was baptized 25 Jul 1875, born on 12 Jul 1875. Daughter of Joseph and Margaret Cleator.
Anc* has surname transcribed as CLATOR.
claire
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The family have Corkill family with them in the 1891 census. This looks to be Frances's parents marriage
9 August 1857 Braddan, Isle of Man.
Joseph Cleator single. Father: Thomas Cleator
Margaret Corkill single. Father: Edward Corkill
Claire
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All this information is amazing! Thanks Claire.
Did you get it from those free websites? I was using them before but I couldn't find anything like that. I have so many threads to follow now. Thanks again!
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Hi
I do have a subscription with Anc*stry, so get my info from there.
Try here for Isle of Man records
http://www.imuseum.im/search/people/
Here is the family in the 1891 census, transcribed as CLEATON on Anc*
Toxteth PArk: 8 Park Road
Joseph CLEATON hd mar 55 policeman bn Isle of Man
Margaret wf 55 " "
Walter son 19 hair dresser bn Liverpool
Frances dau 15 scholar "
Christina " 13 " "
Edith " 11 " "
Herbert son 6 " "
Eleanor Corkill sister mar 30 bn Isle of Man
Edward " nephew 1 " " "
Class: RG12; Piece: 2926; Folio: 4; Page: 2
claire
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This is excellent stuff, my mum will be very pleased to learn this information too! On this side of the family we've now got back to the start of the 1800s with Thomas Cleator and Edward Corkill from the Isle of Man.
Thanks, Claire, it's very kind of you to spend your time on this for me.
I'm thinking about subscribing to Anc* now to find the other threads. Is it expensive/worth it?
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Hi
If you log on to the Anc* website it will tell you how much the different subscriptions are. A world sub (off the top of my head- I'm working, or supposed to be) is about £20 per month, which has access to English/Australian/US records,I use the premium sub which is currently about £13 per month and is for all English records, I think it's well worth the money, take a look and it will show you what records are available.
If there is something you want me to look up don't hesitate to ask, there are lots of people on here willing to help :)
claire
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Actually, I'd love to know more about the Worthington side of the family too ;D I feel a bit bad asking you for so much but I'm working on the assumption that you love to research these kind of things, which is an excellent way to be!
Henry Worthington married Frances Julia Cleator in March 1903 in Toxteh Park, and by Henry's age he must have been born around 1872. His father was James Worthington, and the address (at least for Henry) was listed as 1 Dolling Street (it looks like he met Frances because she worked as a servant at 4 Dolling Street).
I haven't been able to find any more records on Henry, James or Henry's mother though. I'd love to know a bit about their ancestry. If you had time and inclination to help that would be amazing. Of course if not, don't worry, you've already gifted my family with much more knowledge about ourselves than we had before, for which I am forever grateful.
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I'm on the case ;D ;D
So watch this space ...
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I'm excited! :D
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Henry's parents marriage
Liverpool St John: 5 May 1861 after Banns
James Worthington bachelor 23 railway porter of Bittern Street. Father: Henry Worthington~labourer
Mary Calvert spinster 24 of Canning Street. Father: John Calvert ~labourer
Both signed register
Witnesses: Sherman Calvert and John Parsonage
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Family in 1871 census
Liverpool: 14 Peach Street
James Worthington hd mar 34 carter bn Lancashire Crosby
Mary wf " 34 "
James son 9 scholar " Liverpool
Mary dau 9 " "
George son 7 " "
Alice dau 5 " "
Elizabeth " 4 " "
Jane " 4 months "
Class: RG10; Piece: 3782; Folio: 16; Page: 26
claire
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Family in 1881
Liverpool: 134 Upper Frederick Street
James Worthington hd mar 43 carter bn Lancs Crosby
Mary wf 44 " Lincoln Partney
James son 19 labourer bn Liverpool
Elizabeth dau 14 scholar " "
Jane " 11 " " "
HENRY son 9 " " "
Ann dau 6 " " "
John son 4 " "
Margaret dau 11months " "
Class: RG11; Piece: 3615; Folio: 147; Page: 43
claire
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1891 census
Liverpool: 171 Upper Frederick Street
James Worthington hd mar 53 carter bn Lancs. Crosby
James son s 29 " " Liverpool
HENRY " s 17 " " "
Ann dau s 15 "
John son s 14 butcher "
Margaret dau s 10 "
Not sure where Mary (mother) is, it says 'M' for married, but she may have died
Class: RG12; Piece: 2911; Folio: 48; Page: 21
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1901 census: 39 Hurst Street
Henry Worthington boarder 29 general labourer bn. Liverpool
James Worthington boarder 64 general labourer bn Huyton Lancs.
They are the only family members at this address but are boarding with a Petrovich family
Class: RG13; Piece: 3414; Folio: 72; Page: 23
To be correct in the 1881 census HENRY was transcribed as HARRY
claire
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wow... those Worthingtons were busy! I guess she must have died by then, hopefully not from exhaustion!
This extends my family greatly. Thanks! Any time you want to research them, I'll give you a new thread!