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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: BumbleB on Thursday 18 December 08 13:31 GMT (UK)
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In my family history research into the name of Archbell, I have come across a vessel named "Annie Archbell". From the Lloyds Register I have the following information:
Built in Sunderland in 1860 - shipyard appears to be Peverall. Owned by Brodie & Co and registered in London. She was initially built "under special survey" (according to the abbreviations shown against her entry). She started her career by taking government stores to India, but later transferred to the London-Sydney route, and finall the London-China route. She was lost in 1867. Her dimensions were 155 x 32 x 21and weighted 706 tons. Her Master in all the entries was Morrice, although entries on www.mariners.records.nsw.gov.au list him as either Morrill or Moore.
My enquiries on the website www.readers.sunderlandmaritimeheritage.org.uk have so far drawn no responses, neither have I been able to find any information on Brodie & Co, so thought I might see if I can get anything here!! Ideally I would like to know if I might be able to obtain a picture, or plans for the vessel, and confirmation that my supposition as to her naming is correct.
I suspect that she was named for the wife of James Archbell of Wapping who was listed in the 1861 census as being a ship owner, but!!??
Any thoughts or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.
BumbleB
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Hello BumbleB,
The only likely shipbuilder was William Pickersgill at Low Southwick on the north bamk of the River Wear. At that time he was mainly building wooden brigs and snows.
Peter
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Hello again,
This might be a false lead, but I came across a Scotsman John Brodie from Portsoy Scotland who married a Newcastle girl Rachael Archbold and became a shipowner in the city of London.
Peter
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Hi Peter - what timescale are we talking? James Archbell the shipbuilder was born 1824, died 1871. His father was also called James and he died 1851, he was a ship chandler. Believe his father was Thomas and he was termed a mariner. Don't have any idea where the family came from. My particular Archbells came from Tadcaster in Yorkshire, but I have absolutely no idea where this lot came from, possibly Scotland as I'm sure that Archbell is a corruption of Archibald.
Any help would be appreciated.
BumbleB
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I picked up John Brodie of Fenchurch st London from a trade directory that I can't now access, but I found him and his family on the 1861 census. While I was at it, I found James Archobell 34 shipowner, in Tower Hamlets, parish of St George in the East and born there, with a wife called Anne born Scotland, two infant girls, a nurse and two servants. Maybe the one who ordered the Annie Archbell? Tadcaster seems a strange place to find a shipowner.
Yours Peter
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Thanks. That's the same James Archbell - I don't think he has anything to do with Tadcaster (my lot came from there) but the name is the same. I'd found him on the same census, and was just very, very curious. One of these days, I'll find out who he was. Got his father, and possibly his grandfather via various sites. But John Brodie is good, I'll have a look at him.
Thanks agai
BumbleB :)
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Am researching the family of a friend - his ancestors were the Murtha family who, I believe, worked in the Sunderland shipyards in the second half of the 19thc- is there any source where I might be able to trace where they worked/what ships they may have worked on?
Thanks
Use
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Hi: I have absolutely no idea! Sorry, I'm also trying to access Sunderland shipbuilders, but without success for the moment. Considering that Sunderland was the heart of the shipbuilding industry there appears to be very little information.
BumbleB
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Excuse the intervention BumbleB,
There is not much on line except that Google books have Lloyds Register of shipping on line. If you know the name of a ship it gives ownership and building details. If you know the owner it means trolling through about fifty pages to spot them.
British Shipbuilding yards Vol 1 NE Coast by Norman L Middlemass gives details of the Wear yards but is mostly interested in the later iron andsteel shipbuilding. A lot of builders of small wooden ships went out of business in the mid 19th century.
Hope this helps one or other of you.
Peter
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Thank you Peter. As you know from my first post, I do know the details of the Annie Archbell from Lloyds Register, but your second lead about the British Shipbuilding yards is most interesting. I'm assuming that this book is not available on line, so it may have to be put on hold until I can find a source for it, possibly through my local library (assuming they do a loan scheme from other libraries). Therefore any further details you could offer would be appreciated.
BumbleB
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Thanks for the info re the book - I realise that it will be virtually impossible to track down specific vessels on which they worked but interesting to get some idea of the types of ship/work etc.
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Sorry BumbleB I forgot how far along you were.
The builder of the Annie Archbell was George Peverall who seems to have been more of a shipbroker. He started as a printer. Perhaps his partner Davison was the trained shipwright.
I remembered a web site ca.geocities.com/ventures0@Rogers.com which has a heap of information on early shipbuilders. His yard was on the north bank and was later subsumed into the Thompson yards. His sister in law was a Thompson but its a common name. If Suse can find the yard name she could get an idea of the sort of ships. By 1850 the yards were switching to iron building. By 1880 wood had become a thing of the past.
Yours Peter
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So Peter: what information can you give me about George Peverall? The website doesn't seem to be available!! Sorry to be a pain ::) ::)
BumbleB
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George Peverall b Durham City 1825 began as a printers apprentice. Married Louisa Cornwell of Durham. 9 sons 1 dau b Gateshead, SShields, Newcastle and then Bishop Wearmouth. In 1851 he is a prosperous ship & insurance broker at Olive st Bishop Wearmouth. By 1861 he is a shipbuilder employing 20 men & 10 boys with his son George as his clerk. The yard was on the opposite bank of the Wear in Monk Wearmouth at Wreath quay under the names of Peverall & Davison. By 1871 he is described as a shipbroker and his son John is an Iron ship draughtsman.
By 1881 the family were all in London in totally unrelated employments.
It seems the yard was swallowed up by J L Thompson who started building in iron in 1871 but it had been unused for some years. the site had a few names of ships the yard built, but not the Annie Archbell. Probably the higher investment needed for iron ships, decided Peverall to give up.
Peter
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Thank you Peter.
BumbleB
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Hello BumbleB,
Looking for a ship called Empress I came across the following;
Brig Ellen 230tons built Perth 1834 owned Archbell London sheathed yellow metal last surveyed A1 in 1844. In London at the time, no prospective voyage indicated.
Did you find out how the Annie Archbel was lost? Always interesting to a seaman.
Peter
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Hi Peter: Thanks for that, I had no idea about another vessel, and this time owned by Archbell as opposed to Brodie - further investigation needed obviously so it looks like another trip to Birmingham Library!!
Afraid I don't know how the Annie Archbell was lost, mainly because I don't know how to go about it. Lloyds just stamped Lost against her in 1867. Any hints on how to find the information would be welcome. As I said my initial interest was in the name, and then I had to find more. I went into the Library in Birmingham and ended up with this great trolley full of Lloyds registers to look at. I'm also amazed that she was so small and the thought of travelling to Australia or China in a vessel that size just blows my mind, and the thought that she could carry 4500 bales of cotton from China!!
BumbleB
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Hello
Still pursuing fmily history and I find that my friend's gggrandfather was a John Morrow master mariner who was probably the first captain of the Loftus - the first iron schooner built in Sundrrland launched 1852 - have found details but no picture - other ships were the John & Mary and also The Ant - any thoughts on how to find pictures?
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The website ca.geocities.com/ventures0@Rogers.com has lots of pictures of Sunderland shipbuilding sites and their product. Unfortunately it was the larger vessels that drew the public attention. Similarly I have the Dictionary of disasters at sea 1824 to 1962 by Charles Hocking but it only covers ships over 500 tons. The Australians have Ronald Parsons compilation of losses in the Antipodean trades but not on line.
I guess the only thing is to consult copies of Lloyds List and Lloyds Index at somewhere like the National Maritime Museum.
Peter
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I forgot to say that the Dictionary only includes casualties with loss of more than 5 lives, so the Annie Archbell may have been wrecked but her crew had escaped.
Peter
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Hi peter
do you know anything about The Bellerophon from Nelsons fleet used in its old age as a hulk for boy convicts at sheerness?
Gene
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There is a good paperback, Billy Ruffian by David Cordingly published by Bloomsbury pbks.
Briefly Bellerophon was converted to a convict hulk in 1815 stationed in the Medway. Then in 1823 became a special facility for boy convicts to keep them separate from hardened older men. In 1826 they were moved to better facilities and Bellerophon was moved to Plymouth used for convicts awaiting transport to Australia. She was finally sold in 1836 and broken up by the purchaser.
Yours Peter
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Hi Peter
do you know where the boy convicts were kept after 1823 mine was somewhere for 18months before sent to VDL
Gene
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Some time before Jan 1826 the boys were transferred to a specially fitted out prison ship, the ex-frigate Euryalus at Chatham, though that proved too cramped and the boys there gave a lot of trouble.
Yours Peter
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Peter:
I've just found the report of the loss of Annie Archbell - 13 April 1867 on Terschelling Bank, Netherlands, with a loss of 4, the remaining 14 crew were saved by the Terschelling Pilot Boat No: 7. According to the Schager Courant of 8 August 1867 the skipper of the pilot boat received £19, another crew member received £6 and the reamining 4 members of the crew received £3 each from HM the Queen for their services. 8)
BumbleB
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Jusr shows, sailing round the world is not difficult. It's the land which is dangerous!
Peter
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Hello! A couple of the earlier messages refer to a website no longer available. The website in question is indeed still available via the links that follow which are to such data as I have WWW found re i) 'Annie Archbell' built 1860 and ii) George Peverall of Sunderland, its builder.
http://www.searlecanada.org/sunderland/sunderland049.html#anniearchbell
http://www.searlecanada.org/sunderland/sunderland049.html#peverall
Additional data, to add to either of those listings, would be most welcome.
Peter Searle, Toronto, Canada