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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: Charles IX on Wednesday 24 December 08 00:13 GMT (UK)
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Hello, Ive just started tracing my family tree but Ive already hit a wall!(due to no living family members on this side that I know of) Im Trying to find the parents of Marian Elizabeth Andrew born in Newtown, Wales in 1920. Can someone PLEASE shine some light on them! The only other information I have on Marian is that she died in 1963. Any Info would be brilliant :)
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Hi,
Birth
Marian E Andrew, mothers maiden name Evans, March Q 1920, Newtown Vol 11b page 266
Worth getting the certificate to get fathers details.
Chris
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Possibly the marriage of Marian's parents
June Q 1919 Newtown Voll11b page 355
David E Andrew - Elsie M Evans
Chris
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thank you thats great! when you say possibly marriage is it like a total 50/50 chance or a real good chance?
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Hi,
I would say there is a very good chance that this is the marriage.
This is the only male Andrew to a female Evans I can find for Newtown.
Chris
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Thats brilliant thank you very much! If theres anything else you find on them let me know, it would be very helpful :)
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A strong possibility this is your man
1901
RG13/5197/26/4
The Lane, Tregynon, Montgomeryshire
Evan Andrew, H, M, 36, Farner, Mont. Tregynon
Elizabeth, W, M, 34, Mont. Llanwyddelau
David Evan, Son, 11 , Tregynon
Hannah Ellen, Dau, 6, Tregynon
John Thomas, Son, 3, Trgynon
Elizabeth Edwards, Niece, 11, Llanwyddelau
Chris
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Thats even more than I could of wished for on this side, I really didnt think I would be able to find anything! :D Ive just tried looking for Evan Andrew on the 1891 census but it says no matches found. Do you know why it says this?
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Hi,
Before I go and look for Evan in the earlier censuses here is his birth.
June Q 1865 Evan Andrew - Newtown Vol 11b page 241
Thought I'd check his birth to see if he had any other forenames he might have used.
If we fail to find him you can get his fathers details from the cert.
Chris
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1891
Rg12/4594/66/7
Mongomeryshire Tregynon
Lane Farm
Evan Amdrew, H, M, 26, Farmer, Mont. Tregynon
Elizabeth, Wife, M, 24, Mont. Llanwyddelan
David E, Son, 1, Mont. Tregynon
David Jones, B in Law, S, 16, Serv., Mont. Llanwyddelan
Chris
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1881
Transcribed as Andrews
RG/11/5488/98/14
Lane Farm, Tregynon
Hannah Andrew, Head, W, 42, Farmer of 100 Acres
Evan, Son, S, 16, Farm Lab
William, Son, S, 14, Farm Lab
Hannah, Dau, S, 9, Scholar
Margaret, Dau, 7, Scholar
Thomas, Son, 4, Scholar
All born Tregynon
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1871
RG10/5618/49/13
Lane Farm
David Andrew, H, M, 45, Farmer
Hannah, Wife, 32, Mont. Llanyrfel
David, Son, 9, Scholar
Mary Ann, Dau, 8, Scholar
Evan, Son, 6, Scholar
William, Son, 4,
Elizabeth, Dau, 1
Richard Davies, Serv, Unm, 21, Farm Serv, Mont. Llanwyleddan
All born Tregynon unless otherwise stated.
Chris
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I Cant thank you enough for all this information! what site are you getting all this from because im using 1901census-online and I didnt get any of it? and also is there a way to go back any futher now or cause its going back before 1837 is there no way? :)
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Hi,
I am using A*cestry.
I am stumped at the moment, I can't find the family the family in 1861 or before. I have checked the returns for Tregynon page by page and can't even find Lane Farm.
With regards to pre 1837 it will mean checking the parish records which are in Llandrindod Wells. I have a friend that goes up every couple of months so I will ask him to dig anything out relating to the Andrew/s family.
Chris
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Think I got him in 41
1841
HO107/1440/14/26/5
Vaynor Uchaf, Aberhafesp Berriew
Farm name looks like Coedtafol
Richd. Evans, 80, Farmer
Mary, 65
John, 9, Grandson
Mary Francis, 20, F.S.
John Evans, 40, M.S.
David Andrew, 15, M.S.
All born in county
Chris
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Hmmmm 15 years old and living with someone else's family it doesn't look like we'd be able to find his parents does it. Ah well like I said before this information you've already found for me is so much more than I thought Id be able to get on it, But if anything else pops up let me know :)
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http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Hi
Try a search as above for a David Andrew baptism in Montgomeryshire around 1825 using the LDS site. There is a probable in 1825 and a possible in 1821. Using this may take you back further with a bit of luck.
Merry Christmas
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Yes I'd looked at that one.
Christening 22 May 1825 Llanwyddelan
David Andrew
Parents David Andrew & Elizabeth
The area and timeframe is right so I would think it is a strong possibility it is the right one.
Chris
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Thanks Peter + Chris!
Thats great. Now I know if I wanted to get David Andrew senior it wouldnt be under that name would it, its like when you get this far back the names get wierd I cant think what its called now starts with P. :-\
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Hi,
Good Morning and Merry Christmas.
You mean patrynomics.
Caused me many a headache until Evan John named his son Evan and gave birth to our Evans Line ;D
Chris
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Sorry forgot to say Merry Christmas!
Yeah partynomic thats what I was thinking of, I just dont understand it at all! What would I put in to find David Andrew?
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If patrynomics come into play David Andrew's father would have the surname David.
It works like this
John David would name his son william, William would be known as William (ap) John.
Ap meaning son of.
Thats how we got surnames like Price (from ap Rice) Powell from (ap Hywel) Pritchard (from ap Richard) etc.
Think I got it right
Chris
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Hi Duke, Chris, Peter :)
I've got a lot of Montgomeryshire records and, if you can wait a while, I'll go through them to see if I can find anything more about this family.
Season's Greetings
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Thanks for the offer.
Chris
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Yes thank you for the offer! Any help I would be more than greatful ;D
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Hi :)
Just a bit more to add ~
Marriage: June Quarter, 1860, Newtown, vol 11b, page 443
David Andrew and Hannah Evans are on the same page.
This should list David's parents. father (Amended - I've been doing too many Scottish look ups ::) )
The only baptism circa 1825 that I can find is the one that Chris found - May 1825, parents David Andrew and Elizabeth (Reply #17 above)
The latest marriage that I can find is this one. If it is the correct one then they would have been married 18-19 years by the time David was born:
13 Sept 1806 Betws Cedewain: David Andrew ( son of Thomas Andrew, Tregynon) and Elizabeth Williams (d/o Thomas Williams). By Licence.
Witnesses - James Davies and Richard Pryce.
Llanwddelan, Tregynon and Betws Cedewain aren't too far apart.
Gadget
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If the 1806 marriage is them, the index to the licences and allegations are all up on the National Library site:
http://isys.llgc.org.uk/
You can then get the reference and order a copy from Aberystwyth.
Gadget
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Thats great stuff thanks gadget! :)
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a little bit more:
If the David who married in 1806 is yours:
Baptism - Tregynon
16 January 1786 David Andrew s/o Thomas Andrew and Elizabeth
Marriage - Tregynon
2 Nov 1777 Thomas Andrew, otp, bachelor and Elizabeth Morgan, otp, spinster. Witnesses - Thomas Davies and Richard Humphreys
Gadget
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This looks like it could be a possible brother/relative of David, given that there was a later Evan Andrew:
Marriage - 28 Nov 1802 Tregynon
Evan Andrew, otp, bachelor, and Elizabeth Whittikas ?, otp, widow. Licence. Witnesses - Arthur Evans and David Andrew
Gadget
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Possible baptism for Thomas Andrew, father of David
Tregynon
7 Feb 1755 Thomas s/o David Andrew and Jane
(one also listed for 7 Feb 1752 so either in error or a previous son who died)
Gadget
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Wow thats some great stuff :D :o :D Keep it coming gadget!!! ;)
You know on replay #28 the 1806 marriage info. what does OTP stand for and being the youngest person on Roots-Chat, Im not sure what the correct meaning of the word "spinster" is am I right in thinking its a older woman who has never married?
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Hi Duke
otp means 'of this parish'
Spinster is usually a female of over the minimum age of marriage (16 in this case) who has not previously been married.
I suspect that in the 1806 marriage both of them were 'minors' - under the age of 21.
Gadget .
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Ok thanks for that, do any of the marriage certs. have any DoB's on them for the women just to I can put it down on my tree if not no prob. hope you dont think Im not being greatful for the info you've already got me, asking for more :-[
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You'd have to get the 1806 information via the marriage bond/allegation - I gave the link earlier.
Most parish record (pre 1837) marriage entries only record those between 16-21 as 'wcop' - with consent of parents. This didn't but it gave both father's names.
The early statutory marriage certificates post Sept. 1837 often enter minor or of full age. Later the age is given.
Gadget
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Marriage - Manafon
15 September 1745 David Andrew and Jane Woosnam of Tregynon, By Licence.
Another for the Aberystwyth search
Gadget
Added - Manafon is again in the broad Tregynon area :)
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I dont understand it what do I have to type in?
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Make sure that the marriage bonds are selected. Then enter either the bride or groom's name.
I'll go take a look and see if I can get the ref for you. Then you can repeat it to make sure you can do others.
Gadget
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This is very odd. I've searched on both names (David Andrew andElizabeth Williams) and variations and can't find it in the marriage bonds :-\ I did find an error in them a few years back (a mistranscription) that got corrected.
I think it might be worth contacting the Powys Archives to see if they can find anything for you:
http://www.powys.gov.uk/index.php?id=647&L=0&lsn/02.html
Otherwise, you'll have to contact the Nat Library direct:
http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=136
Gadget
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OK, I've got one of them for you :)
Go to the link I gave and select Marriage Bonds from the top of the page. Then put in Jane Woosnam in the search box and press search.
You'll then get a list of file names coming up with that name in - these relate to the diocese that the bond was issued in.
In this case we are trying to find the marriage to David Andrew in 1745.
The area was in the St Asaph Diocese so find the one that relates to that within the correct time span:
Llanelwy/St Asaph 1701-1750 (Dynion)
Click on that and you'll see a 'First hit' top left of the new page. Click on this and you'll see this entry:
ANDREW, David, Tregynon, MGY. 1746, Sep 14. At Tregynon or Manafon. Jane Woosnam. B. 22/85.
This shows that a bond was issued for a marriage between the couple. The bond allowed them to marry in either Tregynon or Manafon (they married in Manfon).
I'd query the 1746 because the marriage appears to have taken place in 1745 ???
The B 22/85 is the ref to the bond. If you quote all this to the Library services, they will give you a quote for a photocopy of it.
Sometimes there is an A or an A and a B - the A refers to an Allegation.
Gadget