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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: horselove on Tuesday 30 December 08 20:30 GMT (UK)
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hi wondering if anyone has any info on a Mary bowie or bowth and a john or thomas hopton. Thanks.
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Welcome to RC.
Can you give us anything more to go on?
What years are we looking at, even approximately.
Tell us what you know for sure.
Dave
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Hi. Just came across your question and so have joined Rootschat! I too am interested in finding out more about John Hopton and Mary Bowie. They are my great great grandparents. I have heard the Hopton name was actually formerly Hopkins from County. Mayo Ireland, and brothers came over to Scotland/ England and changed the name to enable them to get jobs. Hope this helps a little!😊
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Hi Stitchypoo and welcome to rootschat ..Horselove has not been active on here since December 2008 if his e-mail address is still the same he will receive this notification .. If you post some names and dates of birth I'm sure someone will be able to help :)
Rosie
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Hi Rosie. Thank you for replying. I only know John Hopton died before 1895. He married Mary Bowie and his son John was born around 1855 in Bo'ness. He married Mary Ann Burns born 1872 who then had son James Burns Hopton born 1897. He married Janet Ross born 1893 who then had Thomas Hopton born 1921. My dad!:)
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Is this the family the name seems to change in the census forms
1851 85,Middle Row Newtown West Lothian
John Hopkirk age 36 born about 1815 Ireland ( coal miner )
Mary Hopkirk age 29 born about 1822 Dumfries
William Hopkirk age 7 born about 1844 New Monkland Lanark
Jane Hopkirk age 4 born about 1847 Carluke
Jas Hopkirk age 2 born about 1849 Lochgelly Fifeshire
Rosie
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1861 census the family down as Hopkin
John Hopkin age 45 b Ireland coal miner
Mary age 32 b Dumfries
William age 15 b Airdrie ..Working Iron Pit
Jane age 12 b Carluke
James age 11 b Lochgelly Fifeshire Working in Iron Pit
John age 6 b 1855 Boness
Archibald age 4 b 1857 Carluke
Thomas age 4 month born 1861 Boness
Does this look like your family
Rosie
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Hi Rosie. Thats amazing! Thank you so much. Yes this is my family. Starting with John and Mary(Hopkirk/Hopkin/Hopton!) my great great grandparents. Then John and Mary Anne Burns my great grandparents then James Burns Hopton my Grandfather. Who married Janet Ross then had my dad Thomas Hopton. Thats so great to know . I could do all the other parts of the tree but didnt get any further with the Hoptons. Partly because of the name changing and the fact he was Irish! I wonder when it changed to Hopton? Thank you so much for taking the trouble to do this. So nice of you Merry Christmas!
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This appears to be the family on the 1871 census West Calder Midlothian
Mary Hopkins age 50 born Dumfries (Head )
James age 13 born Lochgelly Fifeshire
John age 15 born Boness
Archd age 12 born Carluke ..all labourers in mine
Thomas age 10 born Boness
Alex Middle and John Libon boarders
Did see this birth for Thomas Hopkins 24/11/1860 Boness West Lothian
Father John Hopkirk
Mother Mary Booth
Rosie
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Thank you Rosie. I guess John had died by 1871 then since Mary is head. Now we have Hopkirk. Hopkin. Hopkins and at some point after that Hopton! Thank you for that. Its fascinating! :)
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Had a look on Scotlands People for a death for John but not finding him so far ::)
1881 census 21 Gavieside Row West Calder
Mary Hopkins age 56 ( Dumfries )
John Hopkins age 26 ( shale miner )
Archibald Hopkins age 24 same occupation
Thomas Hopkins age 17 ::::::
1891 Census 78 Gavieside West Calder
Mary age 67
John age 29 shale miner
Thomas age 26
I notice a few birth records which gives her name as Mary Booth ?
Rosie
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Found a death on SP for a John Hopkins 1867 Bo'ness age 49 that would give him a birth year of 1818
Think it would be worth buying some credits to see if this is yours
Rosie
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Thank you for all of that Rosie It does seem to be him. Yes it might be a good idea to buy some credits! Thank you for taking the time to look at it for me. I did a lot of research a few years ago then left it. I do find it really interesting so will probably continue again now! Names are a bit of a mystery. Mary has Bowie or Booth. Hopkirk Hopkin Hopkins Hopton! So much easier to stay one name! Thank you and Merry Christmas! :)
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Your very welcome think you should go for the death certificate which will give you his parents if known good luck and a Merry Christmas to you also :) :)
Rosie
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Baptism
HOPKINS
JAMES
Son of
JOHN HOPKINS & MARY BOOTH
30/01/1847
at
Carluke
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Thank you for that. :)
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Hi Stitchypoo,
I too am a direct descendant of John Hopkins and Mary Booth, via their first son William b 1846. I've even validated that line as I found a DNA relative who is a descendant of their daughter Jane. I'd be very interested to explore this line further if you are still on the case.
Regards
Matt Brook of South Australia
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I came across this thread while researching the name Hopton.
I believe my family is descended from the Archibald Hopton listed in these census reports.
He came to the United States sometime between the 1881 census and November 1882 when he was married. The marriage certificate lists John Hopton and Mary Bowery as his parents and his date of birth as 1856 in Scotland.
Would anyone have any other information on Archibald or when he might have emigrated?
I appreciate any help.
Thank you,
Mandy Hopton
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Hi Mandy and a warm welcome to Rootschat ...If you search www.familysearch.org I would say this is your relative
Arch Hoptow age 24 years
Place of birth Scotland
Occupation Miner
Arrival 11 October 1881
Boston USA
Ship Atlas
This looks like his birth
Archibald Hopkins
5 June 1857 Carluke Lanarkshire
Father John Hopkins
Mother Mary Booth
Rosie
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Thank you!
I had seen the Hoptow listing, but wasn't sure about it.
I had not seen the birth listing. I really had no idea where he might have come from.
All the changes in last name is very interesting to me, but not very surprising.
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Assuming you have all the other records for him in the USA ..I can see on his death certificate his birth is down as 22 June 1856 with the same parents names as John Hopkins and Mary Booth
There are no births for a Archibald Hopton 1856 the only birth is 1857 Archibald Hopkins ...you can view this birth on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk..If you have not used this site before you will need to register first ..It will cost you £7.50 to buy 30 credits you can view and download his birth for 6 credits ...The surname seems to be the problem here
Rosie :)
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The 1857 BC will confirm parents but it won't give their marriage details unfortunately.
Births 1856 - 1860 don't contain the marriage info. although all 1855 BMD certs. contain a wealth of info.
Annie
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Hi Mandy, I was very pleased to see your post and learn of another Hopkins branch. I don't have much to offer other than backing up the info others have provided to you which matches my research. I am descendant of John Hopkins and Mary Booth and I have valided this via family trees of DNA matches. I also know I have a number of DNA matches in USA on the Hopkins segment, so maybe they are other descendents of Archibald.
In my tree I have (before your post) John and Mary's children as:
William 1846 (my GG grandfather)
James 1847- (either died at birth or date mixup with the other James)
Jane 1849 (I have matching DNA with her descendants)
James 1852
John Hopton 1855 (the three younger brothers adopted the Hopton name)
Archibald born Carluke 5 Jun 1857 (it's news to me that he migrated to USA!)
Thomas 1860
I think all the sons joined their Dad in the tin/coal mines. Sons John and Thomas married Mary and Margaret Burns respectively (likely sisters).
Hope this is of interest and I'd be very interested to know of Archibalds descendants in US.
mattbrook2014@gmail.com
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In my tree I have (before your post) John and Mary's children as:
William 1846 (my GG grandfather)
James 1847- (either died at birth or date mixup with the other James)
Jane 1849 (I have matching DNA with her descendants)
James 1852
John Hopton 1855 (the three younger brothers adopted the Hopton name)
Archibald born Carluke 5 Jun 1857 (it's news to me that he migrated to USA!)
Thomas 1860
I can't see John's birth in the indexes but if it was registered in Scotland in 1855 his birth certificate will tell you where and when his parents were born, and where and when they were married.
However if you got the birth year by subtracting his age from the census year it Likely to be wrong, and it is more likely that he was born in 1854, before civil registration, in which case there may not be any record of his birth.
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Matt,
I sent you an email with some of the line down from Archibald.
Mandy
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Hi Forfarian, I also havent seen John's birth in the indices, and 1855 is an estimate based on census records of 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 (which include inaccuracies as you suggest). 1854 seems at least possible.
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Sorry, no message intended here. Posted by mistake and cant see how to delete.
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Hi Forfarian, I also havent seen John's birth in the indices, and 1855 is an estimate based on census records of 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 (which include inaccuracies as you suggest). 1854 seems at least possible.
It's not necessarily an imaccuracy in the original census.
The census is taken around the end of March or beginning of April, about a quarter of the way through the year, and people are asked their age on the day of the census. So in any given year only about a quarter of people will have had their birthday in census year, and three-quarters won't. So if someone is aged say 16 in the 1871 census, they are three times more likely to have been born in 1854 than in 1855, and so on.
In most cases it doesn't make a lot of difference, because any reasonable researcher will look for a couple of years either side of the approximate year, but in the case of people aged 6 in 1861, 16 in 1871, 26 in 1881, 36 in 1891, 46 in 1901 or 56 in 1911 it makes a big difference because the 1855 records are so much more comprehensive than in any other year.